Archived material Access restricted Article
Rantburg

Today's Front Page   View All of Sun 09/24/2006 View Sat 09/23/2006 View Fri 09/22/2006 View Thu 09/21/2006 View Wed 09/20/2006 View Tue 09/19/2006 View Mon 09/18/2006
1
2006-09-24 Fifth Column
Intelligence "Analysts" Say War Spreads Terrorism
Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
Posted by Bobby 2006-09-24 08:32|| || Front Page|| [11137 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 This stuff really pisses me off. They finish the article with questions like "Are we finding the root causes?" As if this somehow constitutes an argument(rational or otherwise) about what to do.

The reality is that any analysis of causes and solutions based on them (apart from the totally spurious, its all our fault) will result in effects the author(s) will abhor like flattening every madrassah in the Middle East.
Posted by phil_b 2006-09-24 09:37||   2006-09-24 09:37|| Front Page Top

#2 Article: But "a really big hole" in the U.S. strategy, a second counterterrorism official said, "is that we focus on the terrorists and very little on how they are created. If you looked at all the resources of the U.S. government, we spent 85, 90 percent on current terrorists, not on how people are radicalized."

This is pretty silly. We know the Muslim street is radical in the first place and this radicalism is reinforced by Muslim governments that can't figure out which came first - the chicken or the egg - so they dish out the same propaganda that Muslims already believe, so they won't get overthrown by other Muslim power-seekers on the pretext that the government is betraying Islam. I think the term is feedback loop.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-09-24 09:45|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2006-09-24 09:45|| Front Page Top

#3 Yeah. These people never take their drive by comments to their logical conclusions. Over the last 5 years I've learned to include 'intelligence analysts' with the reporters I've talked to in terms of ideological bias.

We are trying to thread the needle by changing the incentive structure: oppose us and you die, develop civilized democracies and we'll help.

It's not easy because of the same cultural factors that make most Arab countries seething failures. If this strategy fails, they will eventually provoke us to the point where we 'go Roman' on them.

Back in the old days, wiping out the enemy was the first option in situations like this (Carthago delenda est) but now we try to be nice first. If this report is correct, being nice is leading to 'more terrorists' and we'll have to take out entire societies and cultures rather than a few thousand dirtbags in places like Anbar and Afganistan. Somehow I doubt the 'analysts' and journalists would support this.
Posted by JAB 2006-09-24 09:50||   2006-09-24 09:50|| Front Page Top

#4 Looking at how the radicalization feedback loop works isn't really going to do us any good - our society is based on free speech - we can't really tell these guys to stop saying these nutty things. More to the point, we can't really stop this kind of thing, given that we can't even muster the political will to stop them doing dangerous things like preparing to make nukes. Because when diplomacy fails, which it often does in the face of the lack of credible threat to the existing regime, the only way to do either is to actually carry out regime change. It's one thing to bomb cities and topple a government for its sponsorship of terrorists, and quite another to do it for its creation of propaganda inimical to one's national interest.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-09-24 09:52|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2006-09-24 09:52|| Front Page Top

#5 So, fighting the indian only made more indians?

Take it up with Sherman and Sheridan.
Posted by Hupaving Flineng5859 2006-09-24 09:57||   2006-09-24 09:57|| Front Page Top

#6 Are these the same Intel Analysts that failed at just about every notable global event in the last 20 years? Of course they did note the world-wide conspiracy to out a LOW level DESK analysts(sic). Funny that this report runs counter to the documents and statements by the bad guys about te lack of recruits.
Posted by Cyber Sarge 2006-09-24 10:28||   2006-09-24 10:28|| Front Page Top

#7 National Intelligence Estimates have often sparked controversy, both for what they have said and what they have omitted.

'Controversy'? How about 'inaccuracy', and perhaps 'tailored to fit an agenda'?

These guys didn't get it right during the Cold War and its immediate aftermath. And they're correct now?



Posted by Pappy 2006-09-24 10:33||   2006-09-24 10:33|| Front Page Top

#8 #5 So, fighting the indian only made more indians?

No, it made more radical indians. Ask Russell Means. (There must have been others....)

irony off
Posted by Bobby 2006-09-24 10:44||   2006-09-24 10:44|| Front Page Top

#9 As soon as I see analyst, expert, anonimous officials or sources in such a mental poisoning diatribe, I stop reading. It would be like finishing my salad with a worm in it!
Posted by SwissTex 2006-09-24 10:47||   2006-09-24 10:47|| Front Page Top

#10 We are trying to thread the needle by changing the incentive structure

Ima like it. About a good a description of our strategy as I've heard.
Posted by 6 2006-09-24 10:55||   2006-09-24 10:55|| Front Page Top

#11 Worthless bunk. But very damaging as the MSM will be promoting this for weeks. We know how these pissers are created. Lets start snuffing imams. Want to wipe out madrasses too? These are the brainwashing factories par excellance. If we have the guts to follow thru, we know how and where to stop the indoctrination. Drivel like this is self defeating.
Posted by SOP35/Rat 2006-09-24 11:26||   2006-09-24 11:26|| Front Page Top

#12 More defeatist claptrap from the liberal-controlled CIA and NIE. Seldom do they address the soruces of the radical Islamic cockroach infestation.

Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, through the commitment to spread vile Wahhabism and Deobandism, are the primary culprits behind the spread of violent Jihad and radical Sunni-Islamism. There's a solution for dealing with these vermin, but do not expect the NIE and CIA, much less the State Department, to endorse it.
Posted by Lancasters Over Dresden 2006-09-24 14:09|| http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com/HomePage.asp]">[http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com/HomePage.asp]  2006-09-24 14:09|| Front Page Top

#13 Lets start snuffing imams. Want to wipe out madrasses too? These are the brainwashing factories par excellance. If we have the guts to follow thru, we know how and where to stop the indoctrination

This makes the most sense. That's the way to go, both here and abroad.
Posted by badanov 2006-09-24 14:57|| http://www.freefirezone.org]">[http://www.freefirezone.org]  2006-09-24 14:57|| Front Page Top

#14 Negroponte said: "My colleagues and I still view the global jihadist terrorist movement, which emerged from the Afghan-Soviet conflict in the 1980s but is today inspired and led by al-Qaeda, as the preeminent threat to our citizens, homeland interests and friends."

So, back in ”the 1980s” this assclown concluded that the “global jihadist terrorist movement” was already in existence. Now, suddenly, it is Iraq that is incubating more terrorists. BIG CLUE: If the terrorists were breeding TWENTY FUCKING YEARS AGO, they’re still breeding now and Iraq has little if anything to do with it. But recognizing that just doesn’t seem to suit your agenda.

# 4 Because when diplomacy fails, which it often does in the face of the lack of credible threat to the existing regime, the only way to do either is to actually carry out regime change.

What we need is a credible threat (read: nuclear deterrent), whereby our foes are kept in a strategic stasis until we can go in and perform regime change.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-24 15:21||   2006-09-24 15:21|| Front Page Top

#15 Powerline has an excellent fisking of this article. Enjoy!
Posted by JDB 2006-09-24 15:47||   2006-09-24 15:47|| Front Page Top

#16 test
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 16:26||   2006-09-24 16:26|| Front Page Top

#17 I have a response, but get sent to Roadside Amrica when I try to post it. No embedded URL's or codes, just text. Oh well.
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 16:30||   2006-09-24 16:30|| Front Page Top

#18 "test"

Word, .com! Dammit, I couldn't have said it bet---

Oops, nevermind. Gut reflexes, there... :)

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 16:30||   2006-09-24 16:30|| Front Page Top

#19 Heh, Dave. :-}
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 16:45||   2006-09-24 16:45|| Front Page Top

#20 Ever figure out what the problem was?
Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 16:48||   2006-09-24 16:48|| Front Page Top

#21 Nope. I'll burn a stack of CD's on the Data Alter and try again...
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 16:51||   2006-09-24 16:51|| Front Page Top

#22 No joy.

The first victim in a conflict is the truth.

The second is the well-intentioned commenter, I guess.

I blame Fred Bush!

No big deal.
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 16:52||   2006-09-24 16:52|| Front Page Top

#23 hey! we have standards here! Low enough that they allow me to post, though.....
Posted by Frank G 2006-09-24 16:54||   2006-09-24 16:54|| Front Page Top

#24 Guys, look at who wrote it.

State Dept people and the ass covering Sr peopel from the 90's.

they were wrong then (economics causes terrorism was their mantra then) and they are wrong now.

They just don't get it.
Posted by Oldspook 2006-09-24 16:55||   2006-09-24 16:55|| Front Page Top

#25 So these comments posted OK, but the one you were trying to post originally keeps getting you RSA'd??? Sounds like a bug report is in order...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 16:57||   2006-09-24 16:57|| Front Page Top

#26 Why are we worried about some illiterate slob joining the cause in Pakistan. The guys I care most about are the Western educated, fluent in English dudes capable fo obtaining a VISA into the US. Once we have shredded all US, UK, Canadian and Australian born jihadis, we will be significantly safer no matter how many unwashed cretans hate us from Waziristan, Gaza or Yemen.
Posted by Super Hose 2006-09-24 16:58||   2006-09-24 16:58|| Front Page Top

#27 Yep...

I just emailed it to you, Dave. Just simple text. Should've sent to Fred, too, but I'm senile. That's my defense and I'm sticking to it, lol.
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 17:01||   2006-09-24 17:01|| Front Page Top

#28 Simple: Financiers, and the radical clerics they fund, coupled with abuse of the media (can you abuse the willing?) means moer fanatics recruited.

The ONLY way to conclude this fight this is to go after the source: Mullahs and Moneymen. Wetwork. Get their skins in the game and things calms down a lot.



Posted by Oldspook 2006-09-24 17:02||   2006-09-24 17:02|| Front Page Top

#29 Boy, whatever you had in there must have hit a nerve in the ol' RB No-No Filter, bigtime! I tried posting it and got the full Muffler Man treatment...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 17:05||   2006-09-24 17:05|| Front Page Top

#30  So these comments posted OK, but the one you were trying to post originally keeps getting you RSA'd??? Sounds like a bug report is in order...

I've been getting RSAed ever since midnight over at the Somalia article. It's not just you, .com. Although from all the attention you get around here sometimes it's hard to tell.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-24 17:07||   2006-09-24 17:07|| Front Page Top

#31 Heh. So Fred's not picking on me personally, lol.
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 17:07||   2006-09-24 17:07|| Front Page Top

#32 PD, all I can think of is show it to Fred and as him what's up. I sure didn't see anything.
Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 17:07||   2006-09-24 17:07|| Front Page Top

#33 UberCommies
Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 17:09||   2006-09-24 17:09|| Front Page Top

#34 OK, that wasn't it... (I'll clean up this mess later on, just trying to figure out what was in .com's comment that made RB kick it out...)
Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 17:10||   2006-09-24 17:10|| Front Page Top

#35 And the redirect isn't content driven. My post was a nice and polite one all about how a couple of AC-130s could solve the entire problem by air-dropping some tea party kits 105mm "business cards".
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-24 17:11||   2006-09-24 17:11|| Front Page Top

#36 I dunno, Zen. I don't post much cuz everybody usually covers the topic so well that I don't see the need. I don't know what to say to the attention bit, lol. We all come at these things from different angles and just call 'em as we see 'em, so most everything gets said, sooner or later.

INSERTED BY DD FROM .COM'S EMAIL:

The first victim in a conflict is the truth.

Thanks JDB for the heads-up! The PL link is bad, but it's easy to find.

Fox says that others who contributed to this report are disputing this is the key point in the report. The statement that it is "unanimous" is also absurd on its face. I certainly hope so, else we need to scrap all of the "intel" agencies as both incompetent AND terminally political. I have some faith left, in a few of them, but not much.

Iraq - only a twit would conclude it is the key. Darrell nails that stupidity to the barn door it in #4 in the Fox Interview of Clinton thread. The definitive Word on the Clinton years.

It is my belief that the situation is simply the result of oil money in the pockets of Islam. Were it not for the oil, they'd still be poor irrelevant ignorant savages wandering the desert. With the oil money, they're rich chaos-generating ignorant savages wandering the casinos and halls of Parliament and Congress.

I believe they first grasped how much power they had during the '73 oil embargo - retribution for saving Israel's ass.

Then came challenges which both caught us in a PCism tipping point, momentarily stuck on stupid, studying our collective navel ('79 Embassy takeover) and totally preoccupied with the endgame against communism ('83 Beirut bombing of the Marine barracks).

Then came Clinton, the "wall", the clear failures of the Law Enforcement mode, silly half-assed wastes of cruise missiles on empty tents, and poor poor Saint Dickie Clark, unappreciated would-be Savior of the Western World.

The evisceration of our intel agencies, especially the humint channels, started back in the Church Committee ('75-'76), may Frank Church burn in something akin to Hell, and continued from that time on through to today. We've never recovered from this incredible disaster or sufficiently bitten the bullet to fight the political firestorm that reversing it obviously entails. Only one effort has been made - and torpedoed from within and without. I'm sure Goss could illuminate the point more eloquently. Now, under the weight of rabid institutionalized PCism that Stalin would be proud of, it probably can't be done - short of civil war. It is the worst-case situation: the agencies are saturated with seditious traitors and political partisans - and protected by their political sponsors in the congress and MSM.

We're in some pretty dire shit. The PakiWakis and the NorKies both have nukes and are obviously insane - IslamoNazis and UberCommies - some of that Perfect Storm stuff. It becomes deeper and more dire if Iran gets nukes. All we have going for us is Bush. He did what Clinton and the others didn't have the stones to do. He is reviled domestically and globally. Yet he does what he believes he must do to protect the US. I don't agree with everything he does, nor do I think he's even getting rational advice on some issues, much less useful actionable intel. Yet there he is, plugging away, doing what he believes is in our best interests, saying some revolutionary stuff and then keeping his word, ignoring shit that would drive most men mad - such as the ultra-thin-skinned Clinton. I'm glad he's the President.
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 17:11||   2006-09-24 17:11|| Front Page Top

#37 I don't know what to say to the attention bit, lol.

Well, you could be every bit as shameless as I am and simply say that you've earned it.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-24 17:14||   2006-09-24 17:14|| Front Page Top

#38 OK, well that's better'n nothin' I suppose. I went in the Servants' Entrance and pasted PD's original text into that last comment of his...

Remains to be explained why that would get him kicked out, though...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 17:16||   2006-09-24 17:16|| Front Page Top

#39 Very sneaky Dave, lol, but it worked. Thanks!

So, how's it feel to be a God?
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 17:26||   2006-09-24 17:26|| Front Page Top

#40 Happened to me too when I tried to paste your comments into a comment, .com. Dunno why. If I paste just the first three paragraphs, it works fine. So I guess I'll parse your comment looking for a bad char. Could be that simple.

Welcome back, by the way, dunno if I said that before, glad to see you commenting again.
Posted by Steve White">Steve White  2006-09-24 17:29||   2006-09-24 17:29|| Front Page Top

#41 "Junior Acolyte" would be more accurate. All I get to do is scutwork like picking up the used rubbers off the front lawn each morning, deleting comment spam, rebooting the server when it goes OTR, shit like that.

Policy decisions and other big-boy shit are left to the AoS and the rest of the High Priesthood...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 17:29||   2006-09-24 17:29|| Front Page Top

#42 A lack of shame is the hallmark of our internal enemies, Zen - you don't wann go there, lol.

My "ultimate" question, and I'm not asking you, just blathering aloud, is:

"Do you cheat at solitarie?"

Simply put, anyone who does is capable of anything.
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 17:30||   2006-09-24 17:30|| Front Page Top

#43 Re #40 - Hey, doc. Thanks!

Re #41 - Acolyte, picking up rubbers, LOLOLOLOL. Regards this blasphemy call the AoS, we need to talk... When CW-II comes along, we should seize the opportunity... 8->
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 17:33||   2006-09-24 17:33|| Front Page Top

#44 Alright, I exported the raw contents of the email .com sent me and looked at it in a binary file editor; and I see NOTHING in the way of goofy characters in it that would make RB choke like a maiden doing her first swallow. Nada.

Looks like it's up to Fred. I put a note in the hopper for him, we'll see what he does.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 17:36||   2006-09-24 17:36|| Front Page Top

#45 All I get to do is scutwork like picking up the used rubbers off the front lawn each morning, deleting comment spam, rebooting the server when it goes OTR, shit like that.

Policy decisions and other big-boy shit are left to the AoS and the rest of the High Priesthood...

Which of course explains your color LOL.
Posted by lotp 2006-09-24 17:42||   2006-09-24 17:42|| Front Page Top

#46 My "ultimate" question, and I'm not asking you, just blathering aloud, is:
"Do you cheat at solitarie?"
Simply put, anyone who does is capable of anything.

That reminds me: remember Clinton and his notoriously endless do-overs when he played golf? Heh...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-09-24 17:47||   2006-09-24 17:47|| Front Page Top

#47 Re the roadside America thing, it has happened to me a couple of time, and I believe it's keyword-related, for example I could post a comment by rewriting paragraph by paragraph and multiple tries (troublesome expression was a certain defense league, in that case).
Annoying, but the owner of this joint is Supreme, so no complaining.
Posted by anonymous5089 2006-09-24 17:54||   2006-09-24 17:54|| Front Page Top

#48 Fred thinks (knows?) the word (redacted by mods) triggered the RA redirect, lol.
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 17:56||   2006-09-24 17:56|| Front Page Top

#49 (troublesome expression was a certain defense league, in that case).

Yep, (redacted by mods) used to do it. But ain't it great to drop in on the 2nd greatest site on the web and see what's new/old?
Posted by 6 2006-09-24 18:12||   2006-09-24 18:12|| Front Page Top

#50 And here I thought Muzzi terrorism is due solely to the opression of "Palestinians" by the Zionist entity.
Posted by gromgoru 2006-09-24 18:36||   2006-09-24 18:36|| Front Page Top

#51 OPSEC considerations mean that Master Fred does not publicly state what triggers various defensive actions here at the Burg.

But given the HUGE number, types and volume of attacks this site regularly withstands, I'm sure y'all understand why that would be the case. Feel free to post a question in a thread or email a mod directly and we'll help you get a comment up if it triggers the antibodies ....
Posted by lotp 2006-09-24 18:52||   2006-09-24 18:52|| Front Page Top

#52 Lol. "Shhhh, you mow-ron .com, it's a seeeecret!"
Posted by .com 2006-09-24 19:33||   2006-09-24 19:33|| Front Page Top

#53 Both this thread, and "JAG Crotch Goes Left" deserve a more reasoned, sober analysis...Redskins/Ravens/Panthers wins today makes that impossible. Great posts. Thanks.
Posted by Asymmetrical Triangulation 2006-09-24 19:42||   2006-09-24 19:42|| Front Page Top

#54 "Do you cheat at solitarie?"

Simply put, anyone who does is capable of anything.

Actually, that is a truly fine question, .com. Cheating at solitaire is something that has never even occured to me. On several other occasions, I've also given up things I enjoy, just as a test of my will. Things like turning my television off for a year back in 1995-1996. Hell, I could have watched it every so often and no one would have known the difference ... except me. This ugly mug is what I look at in the mirror every morning and I'll damned if I'd have myself confronting that sort of shallowness upon waking each day.

When you cheat, the possibility of winning through skill instantly evaporates. Skill is the only assurance of consistent victory. At the risk of being considered a dullard, I'll opt for consistency over a momentary win anyday. Consistency may be the hobgoblin of small minds but most definitely not so for those who seek true achievement.

Appropos to your own question, I was talking with my friend, Ms. Samaan, a Syrian Christian who runs the delightful Middle East foods store near my house. We were discussing the Beslan atrocity. She said:

"Into an empty jar can go anything."

This was in reference to how Muslim children are programmed with hatred from day one and how minds not exposed to critical analysis or autoscopic thought will not have the tools to detect bullshit congnitively dissonant information. They are open to anything that an adult sees fit to pour into them.

That saying has always stuck with me and your question about solitaire brought it back. The way that Muslims lie to themselves is identical to cheating at solitaire. They refuse to self-examine and instead gobble down jihadist camels only to strangle on democratic gnats.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-24 21:30||   2006-09-24 21:30|| Front Page Top

23:59 Secret Master
23:55 Secret Master
23:44 Swamp Blondie
23:37 Barbara Skolaut
23:29 JosephMendiola
23:27 Swamp Blondie
23:20 JosephMendiola
22:52 Red River
22:39 JSU
22:34 Super Hose
22:20 Mark E.
22:04 Super Hose
22:03 Zhang Fei
22:02 Super Hose
21:51 Texas Redneck
21:43 Flamp Flash5467
21:39 anon
21:30 Zenster
21:23 49 Pan
21:21 JosephMendiola
21:13 CrazyFool
21:13 Pappy
21:11 JosephMendiola
21:08 Zenster









Paypal:
Google
Search WWW Search rantburg.com