Archived material Access restricted Article
Rantburg

Today's Front Page   View All of Thu 09/21/2006 View Wed 09/20/2006 View Tue 09/19/2006 View Mon 09/18/2006 View Sun 09/17/2006 View Sat 09/16/2006 View Fri 09/15/2006
1
2006-09-21 Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Moderate Muslim: Islam is in Danger
Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-09-21 07:21|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 *yawn*

More taqqiya. No school of Muslim law rejects violence.
Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2006-09-21 08:26|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2006-09-21 08:26|| Front Page Top

#2 we must chart a strategy to wrestle control of Makkah and Medina from the hands of the 5 million extremist Najd-bred Wahhabis

You'd better start real fast, they may not be around for very long.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-21 08:36||   2006-09-21 08:36|| Front Page Top

#3 Translation: I want western funding.
Posted by gromgoru 2006-09-21 08:46||   2006-09-21 08:46|| Front Page Top

#4 See him next on O'Reilly or Hannity and Coombs....gettin' his 15 min of fame.
Posted by Shomoth Crons6073 2006-09-21 09:15||   2006-09-21 09:15|| Front Page Top

#5 I've met this fellow.

He and Natan Sharansky were visiting my synagogue. They had a love-in where they finished each other's sentences.

F.N. Gadry has a lot on the ball. He is smart. He has courage (he has been in detention many times in Syria and he keeps going back). His brand of moderate islam might even work in Syria because of Syria's history of relative religious tolerance (if you grade the muslim world on a curve, Syria would get at least a B+).

However, I think he has a mental block that prevents him from seeing the overall problem.
Posted by mhw 2006-09-21 09:30|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]  2006-09-21 09:30|| Front Page Top

#6 Farid N. Ghadry is the President of the Reform Party of Syria.

And a dead man walking.

(I never saw the movie, but I assume it means "He's as good as dead." Well, that's what I meant.)
Posted by Bobby 2006-09-21 10:05||   2006-09-21 10:05|| Front Page Top

#7 I wish Ghadry rots of ruck, he'll need it to make any sort of significant dent in fascist Islam. I'd advise him to begin assembling all of the Moderate Muslims™ in one place so they don't get swept away in the backwash.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-21 10:17||   2006-09-21 10:17|| Front Page Top

#8 Zen, I'm afraid that the place you speak of would amount to 6 phone booths and a Volkswagen Beetle.
Posted by AlanC">AlanC  2006-09-21 11:12||   2006-09-21 11:12|| Front Page Top

#9 The words of Pope Benedict should not be examined with scorn but with scrutiny.

I'm not a monotheist but I agree very much with what he said after scrutiny and I'm not ignorant or a LLL atheist either.

How does a muslim know how to scrutinize such matters when the only world that's known, regarded real and valid to himself is i-slam? BS ever rehashed.
Posted by Duh! 2006-09-21 11:19||   2006-09-21 11:19|| Front Page Top

#10 I just want them for museum specimens.
Posted by King Kong 2006-09-21 11:28||   2006-09-21 11:28|| Front Page Top

#11 Forgot to recookie. King Kong = me.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-21 11:29||   2006-09-21 11:29|| Front Page Top

#12 Hey, we WANT the Moslems to begin the journey of self-definition that allows them to also redefine their religion AWAY FROM the direction Wahhabi Islam has taken them of late, right? Or not right?

This guy is trying to be an example:

"What the Pope said allows me, as a Muslim, to ponder self-examination and not rush into a reaction of condemnation."

Well, good for him: "Think--don't just act/react."

His conclusion?

"Unless moderate Muslims control their destiny, Islam is in danger and its lifespan in the Arab world mirrors the lifespan of oil in Saudi Arabia."

When Moslems claim moderation as legitimate and advocate for a self-controlled destiny, they distance themselves from our enemies and join us in condemning Islamic violence and fanaticism. They deserve our support and friendship. New Islamic leadership is needed and should be promoted through educated people like this man.

BTW, some people on the Burg are beginning to sound like "the only good nigger is a dead nigger" crowd, when it comes to Moslems.
Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-21 11:41||   2006-09-21 11:41|| Front Page Top

#13 No, it's more like the only good child molester is a dead child molester.

There is a huge difference.
Posted by kelly 2006-09-21 11:44||   2006-09-21 11:44|| Front Page Top

#14 As I've said before, (about such as child molestors and jihadiis) --blow them all to Hell. But for cryin' out loud, don't become dupes and pawns of the leftist media. News, as a business enterprise, doesn't thrive on stories like, "And in Damascus, 300,000 (Moslem) people went to work in the morning between 7 and 10 am, and about 6 or 7 gathered in a nearby coffeehouse to bitch about Assad.

There are other Moslems than these terrorist kooks with guns and agendas (whether we're talking about the little guys, or the little guys running places like Iran). Better to build the bridges where we can.
Posted by ex-lib 2006-09-21 11:52||   2006-09-21 11:52|| Front Page Top

#15 The only real value to us, is that he again points out that Sauds are the central problem. We should have cut the head off this snake long ago. I think different leadership at the top would have done so. Folks, we can all plainly see how to abate this problem . Take direct action on Saudi, Paki, and Iranian governments/lands. The others, less wealthy, or willing to be violently aggressive like Egypt, Syria, Indonesia will hunker down and be quiet for another 50 years, shocked at the extreme retribution paid out to their aggressive, fanatical buddies.
Posted by SOP35/Rat 2006-09-21 12:05||   2006-09-21 12:05|| Front Page Top

#16 I don't know if this guy is sincere but he has a huge problem: it is the wahabis NOT him who are right on what the Koran says and what Muhammad wanted. Menaing that he is for an upstream battle.
Posted by JFM">JFM  2006-09-21 12:07||   2006-09-21 12:07|| Front Page Top

#17 Personally I think Bush and company should have dumped a ton of money into whatever sect of Islam that was best prepared to counter the jihadists. I'm assuming the Sufi in Turkey. Then got them to use the money to do the exact same thing the Saudis do except in reverse, take over Mosques, print Korans, preech actual peace.

Prop up a single Mullah (or council or school) as the leader of Islam. Pick one we can deal with, and meet with them, and show respect to them, maybe even change a policy or two at their demands to give them face before the Islamic world, while letting the rest of the Islamic world kiss our red white and blue ass.

Then again perhaps they can't provide one we can deal with in which case I would have started operation Carthaginian Peace a few years ago.
Posted by rjschwarz 2006-09-21 12:25||   2006-09-21 12:25|| Front Page Top

#18 King Kong = Zenster, that says a lot. :-)
Posted by wxjames 2006-09-21 13:38||   2006-09-21 13:38|| Front Page Top

#19 BTW, some people on the Burg are beginning to sound like "the only good nigger is a dead nigger" crowd, when it comes to Moslems.

Oooooh, the race card. Paging Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton to the lobby. Too bad race has exactly zero to do with the issue.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-21 16:29||   2006-09-21 16:29|| Front Page Top

#20 "Unless moderate Muslims control their destiny, Islam is in danger and its lifespan in the Arab world mirrors the lifespan of oil in Saudi Arabia."

The Kuwaits fiture they've got enough of that old black crude to last em another 400 years. Don't know about the Soodies. I doubt we have 400 years left in the west to deal with Islam.

Posted by Besoeker 2006-09-21 16:34||   2006-09-21 16:34|| Front Page Top

#21 I doubt we have 400 years left in the west to deal with Islam.

We don't even have 40 years. I peg it at less than four years. That's a reduction by two orders of magnitude. It shows just how complacent Islamic governments are about the jihadist threat to them. Think of how much longer it is until Iran has nuclear weapons and then subtract a year.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-21 17:10||   2006-09-21 17:10|| Front Page Top

#22 BTW, some people on the Burg are beginning to sound like "the only good nigger is a dead nigger" crowd, when it comes to Moslems.

Ex-lib, I don't think the 'burg cares anymore. Officially and unofficially. After November it might get even worse.
Posted by Rafael 2006-09-21 17:39||   2006-09-21 17:39|| Front Page Top

#23 We need to be optimistic about Moslems like the writer in the article. It is foolish to think the West must kill every Moslem. It is also wrong. What B-16 did was to start opening dialogues and minds. This guy is an example. We fight those who fight us and fight them ruthlessly, but we welcome those who ask themselves such questions. They are not mutually exclusive. The real answer to this jihad problem will lie not just on the battlefield, but in the minds and hearts of those who will be discouraged by the battle. Sherman didn't have to kill every rebel, we didn't kill every Japanese or German. To simply propose this as a "Final Solution" is wrong and foolish.
Posted by Sgt. D.T. 2006-09-21 17:48||   2006-09-21 17:48|| Front Page Top

#24 Run for cover Sgt.
Posted by Rafael 2006-09-21 17:50||   2006-09-21 17:50|| Front Page Top

#25 I don't think it is necessary to be antagonistic about the issue of Moderate Muslims™. What I think has begun to become clear is that these so-called moderates had better get off of the dime and begin taking substantive measures to distinguish themselves. What's more is that they must additionally initiate their own campaign of outing any of the jihadist imams and radicals within their religious circles.

Extremely little of this has been happening to date. So little, in fact, that many outsiders have rightly abandoned all hope that there will be any real action of worth to be seen from this. The West is obliged to do one thing and one thing only, and that is to survive.

After five long years of waiting for Moderate Islam™ to make inroads on the fanatics within their midst they no longer have much right to demand any assistance from us. We must go about taking the measures that ensure our safety. If Moderate Muslims™ don't want to be thrown out with the bathwater, they can clean up their own act.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-21 18:31||   2006-09-21 18:31|| Front Page Top

#26 Ex-lib, I don't think the 'burg cares anymore. Officially and unofficially

I'll let Fred answer that officially, if he choses. But I for one do care. IF it comes to the sort of all-out war that so many here seem to be panting for, the horror will be one our grandchildren and beyond will carry before them.

It may come to that -- and if so, then so. But count me among those who are NOT popping the popcorn or pouring beer in happy anticipation of such an event. I'll defend myself and mine if need be, but dead is dead and 1,500,000,000 dead is not a prospect anyone should happily anticipate.
Posted by lotp 2006-09-21 19:03||   2006-09-21 19:03|| Front Page Top

#27 I certainly do not "happily anticipate" one quarter of this world's population dying. What I want is an immediate end to these Islamic atrocities. Even another single one of them is unacceptable. The distinct possibility of a terrorist nuclear atrocity is what makes me no longer care if the Muslim-majority countries are incinerated. I will not sit and watch America be thrown back some 10 - 20 YEARS by such an abomination.

This is why we need to place the nuclear option on the table for all to see. I'd almost prefer a demonstration of force by detonating one in an uninhabited expanse of Middle East desert, just to get the message across crystal clear. Islam needs to be put on notice that unimaginable horrors await any further refusal to reform.

Reverse the situation. If Islam had America's nuclear arsenal, do you honestly think we would even be having this debate?
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-21 19:16||   2006-09-21 19:16|| Front Page Top

#28 You're preaching to the choir, Zen.
Posted by lotp 2006-09-21 19:21||   2006-09-21 19:21|| Front Page Top

#29 Ideologies don't go away until they are crushed. Enough practitioners of the ideology must be killed to make the remaining few say "Maybe this wasn't a good idea after all. We quit."

You could Google 'WWII Nazi Germany' for an example.

Now, the question is: When do we start crushing this ideology?

At the moment we're just picking at it.
Posted by Parabellum 2006-09-21 19:28||   2006-09-21 19:28|| Front Page Top

#30 You're preaching to the choir, Zen.

Maybe so, but I'll still make sure this is clear. I'm fed up with craptacular tripe volcanos like last night's pathetic little smear campaign.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-21 19:43||   2006-09-21 19:43|| Front Page Top

#31 , we didn't kill every Japanese or German.

No, but we killed as many as we could until the rest surrenedered unconditionally and let us put their ideological leaders on trial and hang them. When we can do that with the Grand Poobah of Mecca, then we can say we've equalled what we did in WWII.
Posted by Jackal">Jackal  2006-09-21 20:37|| http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2006-09-21 20:37|| Front Page Top

#32 Zenster, you write: Maybe so, but I'll still make sure this is clear. I'm fed up with craptacular tripe volcanos like last night's pathetic little smear campaign.

Hmmm, but I still don’t see you answering whether dealing with islamofascism will mean that the 1 ½ BILLION Muslims all need to die (be exterminated), in your opinion -- whether you say you’d be happy about killing all those people or not. And, do you think there is any solution to the problem of islamofascism short of exterminating 1 ½ BILLION Muslims? Because, if you do have some other solution short of exterminating 1 ½ BILLION Muslims to deal with islamofascism, I must have missed it.

Now, and hopefully as a short aside, you also speak of “craptacular tripe volcanos” and a “smear campaign.” Is that "tripe" and "smear" verbiage in line with this link at Rantburg where a lot of effort went into dialogue with you about President Bush, but got nowhere? Or is your “smear campaign” comment more in line with this link at Rantburg where the conclusion was that your constant references to “President Bush as "shrub" demonstrates you are either schizophrenic or duplicitous”? Or do you simply object to people calling you on your statements like the following:
Jen, only when and if he is ever properly elected will I then be grudgingly obliged to address him as you wish I would. His intentional blurring of the separation between church and state while simultaneously attempting to constitutionalize discrimination gets nothing but scorn from me.
as in this link at Rantburg, with some emphasis added. My question last night was sincere, and still has not been answered, “How do you square your “kill them all, let God sort them out” rhetoric with your “Bush is a crook” rhetoric?”

It's not that I'm opposed to you or everything you have to say. I just disagree with you sometimes. And I have that lingering curiosity about how do you square your “kill them all, let God sort them out” rhetoric with your “Bush is a crook” rhetoric?
Posted by cingold 2006-09-21 21:43||   2006-09-21 21:43|| Front Page Top

#33 #16 I don't know if this guy is sincere but he has a huge problem: it is the wahabis NOT him who are right on what the Koran says and what Muhammad wanted.

You are sadly right of course, but I think the solution is in textual criticism and hermeneutics. That's why I find some solace and comfort in that fact that groups do exist like the Liberal Islam Network (see discussion and links at this link at Rantburg). Although even the Liberal Islam Network is still plagued by a Pollyannaish and rose colored view of Palestine as the victim, and Israel as an aggressor, at least there is room in their thought processes for dialogue. And, an internal reformation in Islam can't be a bad thing, even if it isn't everything we would hope for. There have to be Muslim views more palatable than wahabism.
Posted by cingold 2006-09-21 22:01||   2006-09-21 22:01|| Front Page Top

#34 Jen, only when and if he is ever properly elected will I then be grudgingly obliged to address him as you wish I would. His intentional blurring of the separation between church and state while simultaneously attempting to constitutionalize discrimination gets nothing but scorn from me.

I can only suppose that you abjectly refuse to notice how I said that "the best man won" the recent election. As to my personal reservation about potential electoal wrongdoing in the 2000 elections, I'll refer you to recent quotes by Katherine Harris, Secretary of State for Florida during the 2000 presidential campaign.

Katherine Harris made remarks ... "Separation of church and state is a lie because "...God is the one who chooses our rulers," according to US State Representative Harris; furthermore, the founding fathers themselves did not intend to build a country based on non-religious laws."

One look at the Jeffersonian Bible tells me that some of our founding fathers were looking far beyond religious laws when they penned this nation's constitution. Had they not, freedom of religion would not have featured so prominently in our Bill of Rights.

Harris said "If you're not electing Christians, then in essence you are going to legislate sin." Her publicity department sent out a press release explaining that she was 'addressing a Christian audience' and mentioned her pro-Israel voting record.

If this isn't enough to cause strong concerns over the possibility of abusive partisan bias in her handling of Florida's 2000 elections results, then you must be brain dead.

your “kill them all, let God sort them out” rhetoric

Furthermore, you have yet to provide a link for where I have ever said "kill them all, let God sort them out". Until you drop such preposterous accusations, you are not worth responding to.

Either you provide a link to where I make such assertions or you will no longer be given the courtesy of a reply.

I've had enough of this slanderous bullshit from you. Why don't you post about your beloved Indonesia over in the "Indonesia Executes Christians" thread and see what sort of response you get there.

cingold, you continue to make these false accusations without providing a shred of evidence. You are no longer worth the time of day to me.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-21 22:15||   2006-09-21 22:15|| Front Page Top

#35 "I certainly do not "happily anticipate" one quarter of this world's population dying."

Yeah, me neither. Although if one quarter of that certain population of the world that keeps pulling this same shit over and over was suddenly "dealt with" then you'll get the rest to knock it off most rik-tik methinks. Or, statistically speaking it only takes about 7 to 11% of a population to get clipped before that particular civilization surrenders. Though in this case, that's still a lot of people.

I don't advocate a mass genocide of muslims as I don't think it is needed. However, I'd greatly like to see the selective annihilation of certain gov't/religious leaders via wetworks style methods. I'd also like to see the incremental marginalizatin or death of their religion. Like I said in another post, until they really modernize their religion and go to a sort of "jeffersonian koran" *or* the wahabbis are some how kicked to the back room we will always be dealing w/these jokers. Until the oil dries up in the majick kingdom or we get smart and start producing our own fuel - I don't see the latter happening for quite a while.
Posted by Broadhead6 2006-09-21 22:23||   2006-09-21 22:23|| Front Page Top

#36 Zenster, let's parse this just a bit, shall we?

NOTE: I said "'kill them all, let God sort them out' rhetoric." Rhetoric being defined as, for example, "A style of speaking or writing, especially the language of a particular subject: fiery political rhetoric." See this link.

So, at least in my mind, when you want to exterminate 1 ½ BILLION Muslims to deal with the problems of islamofascism it is a "kill them all, let God sort them out" rhetoric.

Anyway, thanks for confirming to me that (at least prior to 2004) you thought of Bush as a crook, and that you still might have some pretty big reservations about him. Now, does your extermination rhetoric square with your personal dislike of Bush? I certainly don't know, but I have asked you to help me with that issue.

I'm certainly not trying to flame you, because if I wanted to do that I'd just post some of the many links to things as old as the Beslan thread or as recent as the thread yesterday about finding humor in the muderous death of a woman who was dragged to her death by a tow strap. But, I’m not trying to flame you, even if you think I am. I really would like to understand where you're coming from a bit better.

I mean, from my perspective, diversity is a good thing -- and our nation’s diversity is one of the things that makes our country great. That we can all come together and agree on anything is amazing. I figure that if people with greatly divergent points of view can agree on something (like, yes, let's vigorously fight and eliminate islamofascism) that's what's in everybody's best interest and is a really good and important thing to do. Of course, it would be nice to go a step further and be able to agree on how to eliminate islamofascism.

That’s where dialogue comes in, and I am trying to dialogue with you.

I just can't wrap my mind around the solution being the extermination of 1 ½ BILLION Muslims to deal with the problems of islamofascism. But, sadly, that question is dodged by you and I really wanted to hear if that is what you were proposing and if you had thought of any other solution short of the extermination of 1 ½ BILLION Muslims.

Now, regarding (as you put it) my beloved Indonesia, I am tremendously saddened by the execution of these three Christian men. Of course, I am much more so saddened than I was when Sydney Jones was expelled from Indonesia, because these lives are never coming back. Indonesia and its government does make some really bad mistakes. However, I continue to believe that there are positive forces for good within Indonesia, and that some of these issues will be self-correcting. Truly, I believe some of what is going on with the executions is appeasement of sorts. I think I've mentioned that kind of stuff going on in Indonesia before. (See, for example, this link at Rantburg.) And that is disgusting. However, some of it too is just that Indonesia really does execute people -- and because of that I really do think that some 2 - 4 of the Bali Bombers will be executed within the next year.

Whether the trial of the Bali Bombers was fair and that of the Christians unfair is something I haven't looked at very closely -- but I believe the trial of the Bali Bombers was fair, and they will rightly die. Today, though, I mourn for three Christian souls . . .
Posted by cingold 2006-09-21 22:49||   2006-09-21 22:49|| Front Page Top

#37 I just can't wrap my mind around the solution being the extermination of 1 ½ BILLION Muslims to deal with the problems of islamofascism.

Apparently, it helps if you don't believe moderate Muslims exist, and thus, I guess, they are all out to get you (or would get you if they could, or, they won't throw themselves on the jihadi grenade to save you, or, they simply don't care).
Posted by Rafael 2006-09-21 23:17||   2006-09-21 23:17|| Front Page Top

#38 cingold, I refer you to post # 27 in this thread. We'll have to resume this dialogue at another time as I have to walk my wolf-hybrid with a friend.

Did you not notice where I recently vowed to support Bush should he be subjected to impeachment procedings arising from any bombing of Iran?

From the rate of your participation and posting, I find it hard to believe that you have been paying much attention to mine or any other posts around here. I'll suggest that you refrain from dredging up FOUR YEAR OLD POSTS when you want to criticize me.

Other than that, this will have to wait. I'd like to bear you no ill will, but you keep slinging inappropriate accusations at me and I will get up on my hind legs when that happens.

Finally, if you were so offended about my posts in the thread where that woman was murdered, did you even bother to read the Mark Twain quote I posted? Have you ever written any original humor in your entire life? If not, thank you for playing, please try again.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-09-21 23:20||   2006-09-21 23:20|| Front Page Top

23:57 trailing wife
23:49 Texas Redneck
23:47 Frank G
23:45 Texas Redneck
23:44 Thoth
23:43 ex-lib
23:42 .com
23:41 trailing wife
23:41 .com
23:40 Thoth
23:39 Rafael
23:39 .com
23:38 Abdominal Snowman
23:37 Thoth
23:33 Thoth
23:33 trailing wife
23:31 .com
23:31 Thoth
23:27 Thoth
23:26 trailing wife
23:25 Grolurt Hupising1286
23:23 Broadhead6
23:20 Grolurt Hupising1286
23:20 Zenster









Paypal:
Google
Search WWW Search rantburg.com