Archived material Access restricted Article
Rantburg

Today's Front Page   View All of Mon 09/13/2004 View Sun 09/12/2004 View Sat 09/11/2004 View Fri 09/10/2004 View Thu 09/09/2004 View Wed 09/08/2004 View Tue 09/07/2004
1
2004-09-13 Iraq-Jordan
Turkey reacts with fury to massive US assault on northern Iraqi city
Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
Posted by tipper 2004-09-13 1:01:24 AM|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Turkey forfeted all rights to say anything when it refused US forces passage into Iraq via Turkey. Suck it up> The times of "tribal life" in Iraq are over. That is one of the things the terrorists depend on. Iraqis must be loyal to their nation, not their tribe or ethnic group. The is 2004 AD not 1077 AD .
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-09-13 1:35:26 AM||   2004-09-13 1:35:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 avoid indiscriminate use of force

Sounds good. Carry on.
Posted by Rafael 2004-09-13 1:50:51 AM||   2004-09-13 1:50:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 ROFLMAO!!! Watch all you like. Issues some more furious protests. Gnash your teeth. Wear sack-cloth and ashes. Howl at the fucking moon.

Who cares? No one. When you stab your allies in the back, you can expect to find yourself alone, eventually. And there you are. Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid. And duplicitous.

FOAD, Turds, er Turks.
Posted by .com 2004-09-13 2:30:30 AM||   2004-09-13 2:30:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Well, this makes it legal now for us to sent truck loads of weapons to the Turkmen insurgents, they have the right to defend themselves against the American genocide.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-13 3:30:06 AM||   2004-09-13 3:30:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Murat have a nice hot one.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-09-13 3:39:07 AM||   2004-09-13 3:39:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Yer next, Murat.
Posted by Asedwich  2004-09-13 3:41:55 AM||   2004-09-13 3:41:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Please do, Turk. Please.

I'd love nothing better than to permanently slam the door between the US and the bastard Turks. You earned it with your perfidy already, but the US seems loathe to completely write you off as assholes unworthy of our friendship, support, sweetheart trade agreements, support in your struggles to be "european" enough to join their club - the whole mess. You're not worth warm spit.

Your suggestion would do the trick. Please proceed.
Posted by .com 2004-09-13 4:32:19 AM||   2004-09-13 4:32:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 .com,
I'll be a pleasure to make scums a complete faillure in Iraq.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-13 5:04:04 AM||   2004-09-13 5:04:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Murat, I don't get it. One day you're proclaiing how incompetent the US is - quagmire, hiding, running away etc. The next the US is engaged in 'genocide' and you guys urgently need to arm Turkmen to prevent the all-conquering US armed forces from killing everybody. You know, you really can't have it both ways or people might sart to, um, disrespect your opinion...
Posted by Bulldog  2004-09-13 5:14:33 AM||   2004-09-13 5:14:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Yes Bulldog, against the unarmed civilian population the US army is all-conquering, there is nothing wrong to give a tiny percentage balance to the situation so that the Americans at least fight armed people.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-13 5:28:35 AM||   2004-09-13 5:28:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Armed people like the Republican Guard? Or are you just talking about terrorists; those brave men who hide amongst civilians?
Posted by Bulldog  2004-09-13 5:48:31 AM||   2004-09-13 5:48:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 .com said "but the US seems loathe to completely write you off as assholes unworthy of our friendship"

Dear .com we Turks are already long time aware that America is not our friend, there are steadfast proves of America aiding the terrorist leader Osman Ocalan who has split off from the PKK (which is remarkably on the US terror list) founded the breakaway group PWD. The most remarkable thing is that the same US helped us to catch the chief terrorist Abdullah Ocalan (brother of Osman Ocalan) and is now using his little brother against us.

Strange eyh, announcing the whole world that you are "fighting terror" and the same time you help to form and aid a terror organisation. Well, the Indians would say "you white man, you talk with split tongue".
Posted by Murat 2004-09-13 6:09:03 AM||   2004-09-13 6:09:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Murat - since you've publically proclaimed on rantburg that you wish you could cap our president, I'm not sure why you have a problem with our actions.
Posted by B 2004-09-13 7:26:59 AM||   2004-09-13 7:26:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Oh, I'm sorry Murat, you didn't say "cap". Here's what Murat had to say about our president on 9/10/04. See post #10

bust that tweep death or alive

PS...Murat..your english sucks.

PS Murat...be sure and say goodbye before you blow. I feel bad about Murat I. He was waxing poetic and I said mean things to him shortly before those bank bombings which occurred shortly before Bush visited your country. Haven't heard much from him since.

It's just that, you know, we get to know each other and it's important you say goodbye.


Posted by B 2004-09-13 7:37:22 AM||   2004-09-13 7:37:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 your intrusion attempt failed. Sorry.
Posted by B 2004-09-13 7:41:42 AM||   2004-09-13 7:41:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Russia is your friend Murat. Listen to them. Greece loves you to. Bulgaria is a faithful friend and Syria of course.


Posted by Shipman 2004-09-13 7:43:57 AM||   2004-09-13 7:43:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by UFO TROLL 2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM||   2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by UFO TROLL 2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM||   2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by UFO TROLL 2004-09-13 8:53:08 AM||   2004-09-13 8:53:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Hey, Ship, is the Armenian contingent up there yet? It'll take awhile to even the score, but you gotta start somewhere.
Posted by tu3031 2004-09-13 9:04:58 AM||   2004-09-13 9:04:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Murat and the other anti American Turks have a psychic war inside their own head.

Their left brain tells them that Turkey absolutely will benefit from a stable democratic Iraq. It also tells them that Saddam was bad for Turkey. It also tells them that Islamists in Iraq are bad for Turkey. It also tells them that their interest is served by more oil production in the Kirkuk basin.

On the other hand their right brain is telling them. Americans- bad- emotional response needed.
Posted by mhw 2004-09-13 9:17:35 AM||   2004-09-13 9:17:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 ... and if they play ball they'll find themselves in the EU with oodles of subsidies for their agriculture.
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-13 9:32:51 AM||   2004-09-13 9:32:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 If the Turks get in you can kiss that rebate goodbye.
Posted by Shipman 2004-09-13 9:38:59 AM||   2004-09-13 9:38:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 My my big surprise, smart Americans still exist (from the Guardian): Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-13 9:44:30 AM||   2004-09-13 9:44:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 I say let's kick Turkey out of NATO and let Israel hit it! What do you say?
Posted by Abdul Goldman 2004-09-13 9:50:25 AM||   2004-09-13 9:50:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 Not only crazy, but damn well armed to boot!
Posted by Shipman 2004-09-13 9:50:51 AM||   2004-09-13 9:50:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 Murat: My my big surprise, smart Americans still exist (from the Guardian): Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq.

Murat, UFO is a Muslim. Nazis don't care about Zionists - they just wish Jews in the West would go to Israel (or anywhere else) and stay there. They would also prefer it if the Asiatic hordes, including Muslims, Arabs, Orientals, Turks, etc would leave the country. Any self-respecting Nazi would have UFO's Muslim butt deported (or worse).

As to al Guardian's quote of Powell, it's no real surprise - he's playing the good cop (he is, after all, in the State, not Defense, Department). Ever heard of the good cop, bad cop strategy? The good cop says his partner's nuts, and if he doesn't get any cooperation, all hell will break loose. But then again, Murat doesn't like to do any thinking - he like his propaganda neat from the fevered imaginations at al Guardian.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-13 10:03:39 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-13 10:03:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 I'm curious what your hometown is, Murat. Some Turkish village has obviously lost their idiot
Posted by Frank G  2004-09-13 10:07:27 AM||   2004-09-13 10:07:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#29 It's about time someone brought up a certain scene from LA Confidential...
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-09-13 10:08:41 AM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-09-13 10:08:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#30 This story seems to be OBE, since according to another article, the US is occupying the city, and the killer thug gangs have disappeared into the woodwork.
Posted by V is for Victory 2004-09-13 10:09:01 AM||   2004-09-13 10:09:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#31 What it sounds like is that the Turks are backing their own terrorist faction, and are unhappy that their pet jihadis are getting blasted to pieces. Maybe they should send the Turkish Army into Iraq. How about it, Murat? Restore a piece of the Ottoman empire (Turkish rule over Northern Iraq)?
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-13 10:13:15 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-13 10:13:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#32 To the American (made in China), would be nice to confront those babykillers with real soldiers.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-13 10:20:59 AM||   2004-09-13 10:20:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#33 Atatürk must be spinning...
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-13 10:25:15 AM||   2004-09-13 10:25:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#34 would be nice to confront those babykillers with real soldiers.

Murat, our soldiers are confronting the Turk-supported babykillers.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-13 10:25:36 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2004-09-13 10:25:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#35 Can anyone tell me why we haven't committed ourselves to a preferred alliance with the Kurds-the one true and grateful ally we have in that region? Who has been with us from the beginning? I don't understand why we didn't push for the partitioning of Iraq-with Kurdistan being the one place which we could reasonably believe we were welcome in and could use as a base of operations in the future. Turkey would get pissed off about, but so what, they betrayed us. You betray, you pay. What's worth more, placating Turkey or nurturing the one sensible ally inside current-day Iraq?

What am I missing here?
Posted by jules 187 2004-09-13 10:36:14 AM||   2004-09-13 10:36:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#36 jules187 - I hear you. Been there / asked that myself. A number of times. Still see no valid rational reason.
Posted by .com 2004-09-13 10:39:35 AM||   2004-09-13 10:39:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#37 I suppose it's s bit like going into central Europe and siding with the gypsies because they're loathed by everyone. Just watch your purse.
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-13 10:40:35 AM||   2004-09-13 10:40:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#38 Howard-using your analogy, why are Kurds loathed?
Posted by jules 187 2004-09-13 10:41:45 AM||   2004-09-13 10:41:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#39 I thought they were bottom of the regional pile - Turks don't like 'em, neither do Sunnis, don't know if they're above below Shias in the food chain? Prob below. And those bloody Zoroastrians, I'm tellin ya'!
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-13 10:44:18 AM||   2004-09-13 10:44:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#40 Ooooooooooooo! The Turkish are mad at us! Ooooooooooooo! The Turkish! Oooooooooooo! Hide me! The Turkish are mad at us!
Posted by Montgomery Burns 2004-09-13 10:44:29 AM||   2004-09-13 10:44:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#41 Being serious, they do appear, racially, as the regional kicking post.
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-13 10:46:52 AM||   2004-09-13 10:46:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#42 Howard-using your analogy, why are Kurds loathed?

1. They're not Arabs.

2. They're not Persians.

3. They're not Turks.

4. They don't have a state, and want one, but that would mean taking land away from the groups they don't belong to.

5. All those same groups have been using the Kurdish hopes for their own state as a weapon against the other groups.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-13 10:47:01 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2004-09-13 10:47:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#43 OK, thanks, Robert. The Arabs, Persians, and Turks loathe them. But do WE loathe them?

Time to consider the benefits that leverage and alliance could bring to the WHOLE Iraq situation.
Posted by jules 187 2004-09-13 10:51:50 AM||   2004-09-13 10:51:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#44 Having spoken with members of some of the above in London and on holiday in Turkey it would appear the kurds are treated much the same as gypsies in Europe - nasty horrible people who would steal your mum if she wasn't tied down. Have met several kurds - cabbies in London - and they've been fine. I think we really would upset the regional applecart if we followed that line. Time for something new? Maybe. But I think we'd lose credibility amongst key regional powerbrokers. An independent Kurdistan may be a noble goal, and perhaps were better done sooner? We'd have to cope with rage of the Turks and Iraqi sunnis as a consequence.
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-13 10:55:29 AM||   2004-09-13 10:55:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#45 That they are not the other ethnic / asshat groups named is a FEATURE, not a bug. It is one hell of a recommendation. Their behavior, both under the No-Fly period and since the end of the Iraq War prove that they are infinitely more intelligent, organized, civilized, and rational than the others. What more could anyone ask of them? Lumping them in with the miscreants ignores reality.
Posted by .com 2004-09-13 10:56:45 AM||   2004-09-13 10:56:45 AM|| Front Page Top

#46 RC, they sound like uncircumcised Jews.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-13 10:58:00 AM||   2004-09-13 10:58:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#47 HUK: We'd have to cope with rage of the Turks and Iraqi sunnis as a consequence.

They need an outlet to the sea, so that the Turks, Persians and Arabs can't gang up on them. Iraq isn't exactly known for its long coastlines.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-13 10:58:37 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-13 10:58:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#48 Howard UK-You're no doubt right about the timing.

But, are we not dealing with the rage of them now? Najaf? Fallujah? The story above that describes the Turkmen as insurgents?

Who we pick as allies, especially given the fact that there seem to be so few genuine ones in Iraq, seems so important.
Posted by jules 187 2004-09-13 10:59:23 AM||   2004-09-13 10:59:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#49 Zhang, I hear Syria's going to be available soon.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-13 11:00:08 AM||   2004-09-13 11:00:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#50 Hey, I was only thunking out aloud. Check my article on bollocks... quite appropriate.
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-13 11:03:21 AM||   2004-09-13 11:03:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#51 ZF-If we were there in Kurdistan, would they need an outlet to the sea? (Just throwing ideas into the mix.)
Posted by jules 187 2004-09-13 11:03:35 AM||   2004-09-13 11:03:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#52 J187: If we were there in Kurdistan, would they need an outlet to the sea?

If we were there in Kurdistan, we would need an outlet to the sea. Military supplies don't materialize out of thin air, at least not until we figure out how to teleport things.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-13 11:17:17 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-13 11:17:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#53 Monty Burns. You are right, sir...

We all a-tremblin' with fear...
Posted by BigEd 2004-09-13 12:40:44 PM||   2004-09-13 12:40:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#54 Murat

Ok, Turkey gives truckloads of wedpons to the Turkmen and America gives truckloads of nukes to the Armenians and the native (ie Greeek) Cypriots...
Posted by JFM  2004-09-13 1:31:49 PM||   2004-09-13 1:31:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 HEY! Listen up. Things have changed!

We are in a new phase of war now. Think WWII when Stalin joined with the US. All of the old predictions just went out the window.

We all need to stop - reevaluate and move forward.

At some point, the English realized their red coats and battle lines were retro. We stand at that point today.
Posted by feeling bitchy 2004-09-13 1:47:34 PM||   2004-09-13 1:47:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#56 "Tal Afar is a tribal city and its people were not patient with the presence of American forces,"

I suggest they freakin' well GET patient, or else they'll get dead.
Posted by mojo  2004-09-13 3:36:09 PM||   2004-09-13 3:36:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#57 One thing that strikes me is the lack of proportion involved in the use of the word massive to describe this attack. Its use in this article constitutes little more than purple prose, given that only 2000 soldiers were involved. When I think of a massive attack, visions of entire army groups, hundreds of thousands of troops and thousands of tanks drift into the picture. These guys are talking about a couple of thousand guys. What are these guys smoking?
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-13 6:45:31 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-13 6:45:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#58 Its the same vision that produces:

"having prisioners wear womens panties on their heads" > "murdering and raping innocent schoolchildren"
Posted by CrazyFool  2004-09-13 6:49:36 PM||   2004-09-13 6:49:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#59 I wonder what Picasso would have done with the horror of abu ma grab.

The pink phase: Abu MaBra is stretched

Never mind... it's late you get the picture.
Posted by Shipman 2004-09-13 7:39:46 PM||   2004-09-13 7:39:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#60 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by UFO 2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM|| [http://politicsandcurrentevents.com]  2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#61 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by UFO 2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM|| [http://politicsandcurrentevents.com]  2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#62 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by UFO 2004-09-13 8:53:08 AM|| [http://politicsandcurrentevents.com]  2004-09-13 8:53:08 AM|| Front Page Top

22:03 UFO
16:04 UFO
08:53 UFO
08:37 UFO
08:37 UFO
00:31 UFO
14:03 asim ishaq
16:46 lex
12:30 tu3031
12:27 lex
09:04 .com
08:44 .com
07:30 trailing wife
05:59 Howard UK
03:26 Nanook
02:57 .com
02:50 .com
02:50 Nanook
02:36 Nanook
02:33 .com
02:28 Nanook
02:26 .com
02:18 .com
02:17 Nanook









Paypal:
Google
Search WWW Search rantburg.com