Article

2003-09-02 Iraq

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Posted by Murat 2003-09-02 7:33:13 AM|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The result is that many injuries go unreported.
So how do you know about them?

"Vietnam syndrome?"
No. Quagmire! Quagmire! Quagmire!

Posted by Rafael 2003-9-2 7:44:40 AM|| 2003-9-2 7:44:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 An interesting story by Joe Klein :

Who Is Losing Iraq?
Oddest of all, the Pentagon retains its neoconservative fantasy that Ahmed Chalabi of the Iraqi National Congressâwho misled the Administration on weapons of mass destruction and on the rose petals that would greet the American liberatorsâmay yet be coronated leader of a population that barely knows who he is.
Perhaps the defense ideologues remain hypnotized by Chalabi because the reality on the ground is so depressing. There will be no stability, and certainly no economic progress, until there is real securityâbut the three most likely paths toward security have severe drawbacks. The first is increased use of American troops and money. The money is inevitableâa supplemental appropriation of $60 billion, including $15 billion to $20 billion for reconstruction efforts, is being preparedâbut more troops are problematic because the Army is already overstretched.

How can an army of 1.4 million soldiers be overstretched by deploying 150.000 men?

Posted by Murat 2003-9-2 8:02:46 AM|| 2003-9-2 8:02:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 ".com baby blame it on the Turks"
Sure thing, Murat: You're my bitch, and Turkey's to blame. Happy?

"it releases the number only when asked"
Oh my GOD!!! You mean the "journalist" has to ASK? Next thing you know, CentCom will require that they leave the hotel bar, come in person to the coalition information office, and show their Press credentials!!!

Posted by .com 2003-9-2 8:03:02 AM|| 2003-9-2 8:03:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 You're my bitch, and Turkey's to blame LOL
Urat - ya got a purty mouth on ya boy

Posted by Frank G 2003-9-2 8:21:36 AM|| 2003-9-2 8:21:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 .com

Vernon Loeb of THE WASHINGTON POST says so, I did not write the article. I assume he is now nominee bitch too. :)

Posted by Murat 2003-9-2 8:23:41 AM|| 2003-9-2 8:23:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 The U.S. went into Iraq knowing there was a good chance TENS OF THOUSANDS of soldiers would be killed, including via chemical/bio weapons. Ex-military and peaceniks alike shouted body-bag quagmire from every news studio that would take them.

The war will cost the U.S. hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars and THOUSANDS of dead and wounded. Do you think we're just fucking around for fun ? What the hell is your point ?
You think we don't know what's going on ?
Grow up. This is the most important thing the U.S. has done since WW II, not Grenada. That's why not being a 'door-mat' was such bad timing.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-9-2 8:24:16 AM|| 2003-9-2 8:24:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Someone appears to have decided that since the frequent reports of Americans being killed in action weren't enough to make us cut and run, the ante needed to be upped to include the tens of men each day who get wounded in action.

At this rate, we'll soon be hearing about the "tens of thousands of men who are forced to wake up each morning in Iraq."

Posted by snellenr 2003-9-2 8:28:04 AM|| 2003-9-2 8:28:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Another thing... having done the usual google on Susan Brewer, and read some of her comments, I suspect that if she met Murat after reading his use of her words (and his other comments), she'd bitch-slap him up into the cheap seats...

Posted by snellenr 2003-9-2 8:34:15 AM|| 2003-9-2 8:34:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Did the U.S. press have this attitude
about occupying Germany and Japan after
WWII? Do these idiots really think we
should pack up and come home? And where
would that get us? [Murat, where do you
think you would be today if Hitler had
gone undefeated? Hint: you are not a
member of the "master race".]

Posted by Tom 2003-9-2 8:56:00 AM|| 2003-9-2 8:56:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 How can an army of 1.4 million soldiers be overstretched by deploying 150.000 men?

'cause not every Pvt. Tom, Major Dick, Cpl. Harry is fit for combat in a specialized region such as Iraq. (is that all you got for anti-US rhetoric, c'mon, you're slipping Murat)

Posted by Rafael 2003-9-2 9:16:03 AM|| 2003-9-2 9:16:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Anonymous

Which chemical/bio weapons are you talking about, the only chance of WMD risk would be if accidentally one of your own B52's dropped them. Powell's satellite photo proven WMDâs have vanished in thin air.

Posted by Murat 2003-9-2 9:22:49 AM|| 2003-9-2 9:22:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 'cause not every Pvt. Tom, Major Dick, Cpl. Harry is fit for combat in a specialized region such as Iraq.

I see, in other words you have not enough Latinoâs applying for the American citizenship in your army whom you can waste away.

Posted by Murat 2003-9-2 9:32:46 AM|| 2003-9-2 9:32:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 And if those WMDs did get out and into the hands of nasty people, Murat, there's at least as good a chance of them being used against Ankara as there is against Tel Aviv or NYC or London. The last time I checked, bin Laden still blames Attaturk for breaking up the caliphate, you think the over-hyped "Islamist" credentials of Erdogan and Co will save you guys?

I'm probably one of the most pro-Turk posters here on Rantburg, but it's a willingness to believe this type of crap that tends to cause most of the less than cordial reactions to your posts.

BTW, just remember that all our troops are doing to the Iraqi people is about the same of what your guys did to those Marxist bastards in the PKK a couple years back. I assume you don't think that the Turks carried out and death and destruction against the Kurds, so why the knee-jerk assumption when it comes to US forces in Iraq?

Posted by Dan Darling 2003-9-2 9:33:35 AM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com] 2003-9-2 9:33:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 GASP! OMG! People are actually getting KILLED and WOUNDED in a war?

What's wrong??? That is not how it is done in Hollywood! We must stick our tail between our legs and pull out now and hide under our beds!

Posted by GregJ 2003-9-2 9:33:57 AM|| 2003-9-2 9:33:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Murat, we understand that our soldiers face death everyday. We do too. We just had a national holiday known as Labor Day though it is traditionally held in conjunction with a weekend giving us three whole days to kill ourselves. Last year over 400 Americans died on our highways and streets during this period. Annually, we killed over 42,000 as in 2002. And that is just the dead. Hundreds of thousands are maimed and injured. So a report of a soldier here or there killed or injured plays against the local news of mayhem and carnage on our local streets and highways. Only in the minds of the fringe is there any expectation that the Vietnam syndrome will emerge in anyone else's mind other than their own. They're the only ones stuck in a quagmire, of their own making.

Oh, you mean those photos of the mobile bio labs.
As to the WMD, seems that the Chinese just 'accidently' dug up some Japanese chemical weapons left over from WWII. Fifty years without being located, guess they didn't really exist except in the minds and now on the bodies of those Chinese workers. When the Iraqi WMD are shown I can expect you to say it's all a CIA plant. Of course. And why do you think anyone here will take you seriously.

Posted by Don 2003-9-2 9:45:40 AM|| 2003-9-2 9:45:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Murat - you invited it:
".com baby blame it on the Turks"
and it's just for you. You shouldn't bait your betters, son. You're not equipped for anything more demanding than working in a Call Center. If you don't behave, I won't get you any new batteries.

Folks, Murat is one of those special people who lives vicariously through others. Usually, they're fans of a pop idol or sports team or whatever. They revel in the successes of their idol(s). Murat, on the other hand, can be described as an anti-fan.

Yep. Sad, I agree. Consider how much better off he'd be were he to redirect this obsession to some other entity - one which gave him better odds. His fate is similar to our stevey. Only I'd guess that Murat would be more successful at Call Center work than stevey - whose challenges seem to exceed his capacity on every front. Murat's just a dyspeptic jackass with (appropriately) a massive inferiority complex. stevey's a true Hyde Park Ranger of New Jersey.

Posted by .com 2003-9-2 9:54:51 AM|| 2003-9-2 9:54:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Damn. The truth is out. The troops were wearing those chem suits purely for fashion. Typical hollywood cowboy americans. The Iraqis had chem suits just to keep warm in the chilly desert air.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-9-2 9:56:33 AM|| 2003-9-2 9:56:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 I see, in other words you have not enough Latinoâs applying for the American citizenship in your army whom you can waste away.

Yes, that's it. Sorry, but I used Tom, Dick & Harry as place holders for names and did not intend anything racial. Sort of like "Joe Blow", "John Doe", etc etc. Please do not infer I am a racist... lest I give you more ammunition God forbid.

Posted by Rafael 2003-9-2 9:58:30 AM|| 2003-9-2 9:58:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Rafael: Don't worry about it -- Murat was just riffing on the reports in the first days of the war about the Latino immigrants who were KIA before they'd received their citizenship, and who received it posthumously.

Posted by snellenr 2003-9-2 10:22:54 AM|| 2003-9-2 10:22:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 As a retired squid, I can assure Murat that very few Navy guys (Seals excepted) would be much help to the people of Baghdad.

As for Gulf War syndrome, there were documented cases of flue among U.S. forces stationed thoughout SW Asia that were consistent with what is seen during peacetime.

As for injuries, the American military keeps close track and stats of every single injury. Every injury due to is studied locally and overall with the goal of eliminating every hazard possible. Our soldiers are not fodder. We spend our blood for the freedom of others.

Ironically, the most likely target of Sadaam's WMD was always Iran not Israel or the U.S.. So, in fact, our boys are dying for the lives of the civilian population of a coutry that hates us worse than the French do.

As for oil and economics, if that was our interest, we would have "liberated" Venesuala. They have plenty of oil and aren't $200B in debt. With respect to our "empire," the Venesualan people would have intergrated quite effective into our ever increasing latino majority. I also am unaware of any Venesualan having ever blown his/herself to bits to kill innocent bystanders while making a political statement.

Venesuala is also a beautiful place to visit or was before Chavez decided to fashion a new Cuba on the mainland of SA.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-9-2 10:28:06 AM|| 2003-9-2 10:28:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Murat wrote: in other words you have not enough Latinoâs applying for the American citizenship in your army whom you can waste away.

I try to like you, Murat, but that crosses a line. We have 1.4 million men and women of all races, all different kinds of ethnic backgrounds, all types of people under arms. They have two major things in common: they're Americans (or will be soon), and they're honorable.

The young Latino men from outside the US who volunteered for our army are good people who volunteered for good reasons. I certainly won't tolerate anyone besmirching them or their honor.

You need to apologize for that, Murat.

Posted by Steve White 2003-9-2 10:37:21 AM|| 2003-9-2 10:37:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 Steve,

Murat just resents the fact that Europeans treat the Turks far -worse- that we do "Latinos." They are good enough (in the Euro-elite mind) to clean toilets or empty trash, while subsisting on the refuse from the bins, but they are not worthy of being EU citizens or serving honorably in the military for the purpose of acquiring the same.

Remember, it was the Ataturkist parties that betrayed us in the troop vote, -not- the Islamists. They did so out of a forelorn hope that by back-stabbing the one Western ally who treated them with even a minimum of respect, they'd be allowed into the EU.

Fat chance. Aris may be more open and non-hypocritical about his attitude, since he's Greek, but it is the same one that the other European opponents of Turkey's entry into the EU share. Choke on it, Murat.

Posted by Ernest Brown 2003-9-2 11:23:48 AM|| [saturninretrograde.blogspot.com] 2003-9-2 11:23:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 Re: "Latinos" and the US, civilian & military ...

I teach at one of the US military academies, where cadets from all ethnic & racial backgrounds are well represented. A West Point or Annapolis degree is considered very prestigious and is essentially free to cadets ... in exchange for their commitment to service, they receive not only a top degree but also military pay while they are in school. But Murat is talking about enlistees who weren't citizens when they volunteered for service.

What Murat probably doesn't know - or is conveniently forgetting - is that the military is one of the classic ways for immigrants to the US to establish a middle class life for themselves and their families.

My father's parents came here from the social and economic chaos that was eastern Europe around 1900. He and most of his brothers and his brother-in-law served during World War II, & a few stayed in to become senior non-commissioned officers (who are key to US military effectiveness). Two earned college degrees while in military service.

In the next generation, mine, we are nearly all college graduates with professional careers. In other words, in 2 generations we have become comfortably middle class. And for many of us, the first step up that ladder was through military service.

It's also worth remembering, Murat, that many "Latinos" were BORN HERE, consider themselves Americans and are proud to serve.

Finally, "Waste away" may be the attitude of SOME societies to their enlisted soldiers, but that's not the impression I have of the Turkish army, whose professionalism I generally respect, & it is certainly not the attitude American leadership has to our enlisted soldiers.

Your comments do indeed cross a line. You owe the US and the memory of those Latino soldiers -- not to mention their families -- and apology. Your attitude and sniping do not do justice to the Turkish people I know and admire.

Posted by rkb 2003-9-2 12:01:12 PM|| 2003-9-2 12:01:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 I am an 88 graduate of USNA. Demographically speaking, there is a large percentage of Philipino-Americans in my graduating class. The Naval officer corp, in general, is full of decendents of stewards from the 30's, 40's and 50's.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-9-2 12:39:49 PM|| 2003-9-2 12:39:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Murat, my 19-20 y.o. nephew just went into the infantry this past week. He will never be mistaken for hispanic. And my 33 y.o. cousin signed up over a year ago for the army, too.

If Turkey had given us that front, it would have made things easier.

I won't forget that. Guess we'll have to see which way the oil flows.

Americans who are paying attention are keeping 2 running columns, with US or with the Terrorists. That was not a throwaway comment, W just vocalized what we are doing. And what you fail to realize is that we and our young, your future leaders and tourists, ARE paying attention. Fortunately for you, they're paying more attention to phrawnce at this point in time.

Even the SorKs are getting a clue.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-9-2 12:42:27 PM|| 2003-9-2 12:42:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 OOPS!

OUR future leaders and your future tourists.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-9-2 12:53:57 PM|| 2003-9-2 12:53:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 U.S. soldiers are being killed and injured in Iraq everyday (also, please, please do not forget the death of Iraqi civilians who suffer 10 times more casualties).

This is nothing to celebrate (sorry if I am unfair to you Murat, but I feel that attitude in your post), or ignore (this applies to many respondents).

Please stop comparing the U.S. casualties with deaths due to traffic accidents. Last year over 400 Americans died on our highways and streets during this period. Annually, we killed over 42,000 as in 2002. Don:. Well... people do not feel the same way about 9/11, right? Only 3,000 deaths!

The U.S. went into Iraq knowing there was a good chance TENS OF THOUSANDS of soldiers would be killed. Hey, Anonymous! this is just in: The United States is not an empire (yet?). U.S. soldiers are not some pawns in the hands of the emperor that can be sent to a war for some "grand" plans. Every soldier has a name, a family, friends. If you are going to send them to a war, you have to sure than there is a damn good reason. The question is whether the official reason is good enough. I don't think so. But, what the heck, I am not an American.

GASP! OMG! People are actually getting KILLED and WOUNDED in a war? What's wrong??? That is not how it is done in Hollywood! We must stick our tail between our legs and pull out now and hide under our beds!. GregJ: Yeah, i agree with you. As long as I am not the one getting killed or wounded, I am all for it.

Democratic countries do not engage in offensive war. Because, the elected officials have to convince the citizens that the sacrifice of human life is necessary for their common good - and there are few things worth for sacrificing yourself. America lost the war in Vietnam not because Vietnamiese were unbeatable, but because Americans lost their faith in the government.

With every KIA and WIA, Americans are questioning the reasons that have led to American involvement in Iraq and subsequent casualties. This is something different than being "soft".

Posted by Tug 2003-9-2 1:03:23 PM|| 2003-9-2 1:03:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 "They did so out of a forelorn hope that by back-stabbing the one Western ally who treated them with even a minimum of respect, they'd be allowed into the EU. "

Do you have any reason to believe that? I'd think they'd not be nearly as stupid as to think that in an issue where the EU itself was divided, any decision of theirs on this matter would make much difference on their entry. Half the countries in the expanded EU had gone along with the COW, after all.

I think that the Ataturkish (aka nationalistic) parties were more concerned about the Kurds forming their own state.

And I think that you blame it on the EU because, after all, it's the EU that's to blame for *everything*.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2003-9-2 1:04:32 PM|| 2003-9-2 1:04:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 This entire article is a piece of runny brown stuff. According to a friend of mine, ten of the seventy people that work for him have been injured. Only ONE of those required significant medical intervention, and that was to remove a three-inch piece of metal from his right thigh. Even HE was back to work in four or five days. For any of this to be worthwile to judge what's happening in Iraq, we'd need to know:

1. How many injuries are so minor they don't even require medical treatment.
2. How many injuries require outpatient treatment.
3. How many require medical treatment for more than 24 hours.
4. How many require serious medical treatment.
5. How many injuries are actually life-threatening.

As you go down the list, the numbers usually grow smaller and smaller, with the last (#5) being between two and five percent of the total. Unless you see this kind of a breakdown, the numbers blithly spewed by the "Hate-America-First" idiotarians mean nothing.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-9-2 1:19:43 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2003-9-2 1:19:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Riddle me this, Murat, how have those oppressed militants in occupied Kurdistan, the PKK, done against your elite force? How many thousands have you lost? You're the best force in the region, something you should rightly be proud of, but your record is infinitely worse than ours when you adjust for population and military size. In short, bugger off.

Posted by Brian 2003-9-2 1:38:03 PM|| 2003-9-2 1:38:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Democratic countries do not engage in offensive war.

Yes I agree. It is far better to wait until the mushroom clouds dissipate and half the country is made uninhabitable because of radiation before declaring war, but only after the UN approves first. In fact, it is just far better to surrender, you know, America being the root of all evil doesn't deserve to exist. And don't forget the oil, it's all about the oil!

Posted by Rafael 2003-9-2 1:45:03 PM|| 2003-9-2 1:45:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Riddle me this, Murat, how have those oppressed militants in occupied Kurdistan, the PKK, done against your elite force? How many thousands have you lost? You're the best force in the region, something you should rightly be proud of, but your record is infinitely worse than ours when you adjust for population and military size.

... and also my cock is bigger than yours, Murat!!!

Posted by . 2003-9-2 1:45:44 PM|| 2003-9-2 1:45:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Rafael

Yes I agree. It is far better to wait until the mushroom clouds dissipate and half the country is made uninhabitable because of radiation before declaring war

We all are safer now, because the U.S. picked up all the WMD that Saddam possesed, right? By the way, why don't you invade N.Korea or Pakistan. They are the ones with nukes. Ahhh. silly me. I answered my own question.

only after the UN approves first. In fact, it is just far better to surrender, you know, America being the root of all evil doesn't deserve to exist. And don't forget the oil, it's all about the oil!

Thank you Rafael, but I can speak my mind without your help. So, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for military service in Iraq?

Posted by Tug 2003-9-2 1:55:22 PM|| 2003-9-2 1:55:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Tug: Yeah, i agree with you. As long as I am not the one getting killed or wounded, I am all for it.

Soldiering's just another job, except that it's a little more hazardous than most, if there's a shooting war. Tug is basically saying that only people in the armed services should get to decide whether to go to war - i.e. the military should become a state within a state. I don't think so.

Not everyone who supports this war has signed up in the armed services, just as not everyone who opposes it has signed up to help the terrorists.* On our side, having masses of people sign up would have no useful impact on the war on terror - we don't have the budget to support them. I'm not entirely sure what we would do with 50 m enlisted men, anyway. It's not a matter of guts - if a draft is required, we will institute one. The need just isn't there, unless we decide to launch a wide-ranging invasion of the Muslim countries that are supporting the terrorists. This was my hope when the towers fell, but our political leaders shrank from picking up the gauntlet.

* Tug might say that he is not pro-terrorist, but objectively, if he is not for the crushing of the terror movement's means of support, he is for the terrorists.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-9-2 2:02:50 PM|| 2003-9-2 2:02:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Tug: So, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for military service in Iraq?

So, Tug, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for jihadi service in Iraq?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-9-2 2:04:17 PM|| 2003-9-2 2:04:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Zhang Fei

So, Tug, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for jihadi service in Iraq?

"Yesss...that will teach him a lesson!!!"

Tug (shaking): "Oh my god! My cover is exposed. Please Ashcroft, don't send me to Guantanamo!"

Posted by Tug 2003-9-2 2:13:17 PM|| 2003-9-2 2:13:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Tug might say that he is not pro-terrorist, but objectively, if he is not for the crushing of the terror movement's means of support, he is for the terrorists

" Yes, doctor, there are terrorists everywhere. They are in Iraq, they are in the middle east, they are in America. They are now in Rantburg, too. They are trying to get me, but I will expose their cover. By the way, you are not a terrorist, are you - doctor "

Posted by Tug 2003-9-2 2:18:29 PM|| 2003-9-2 2:18:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Aris,

Read it and get a big laugh out of the Kemalists being blackmailed.

Posted by Ernest Brown 2003-9-2 2:27:33 PM|| [saturninretrograde.blogspot.com] 2003-9-2 2:27:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Tug, you sound vaguely.... German???

"when are you going to volunteer for military service in Iraq?"
If need be I'll go... don't you worry about that.

Posted by Rafael 2003-9-2 2:29:47 PM|| 2003-9-2 2:29:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Tug: Yes, doctor, there are terrorists everywhere. They are in Iraq, they are in the middle east, they are in America. They are now in Rantburg, too. They are trying to get me, but I will expose their cover. By the way, you are not a terrorist, are you - doctor

Believe me, when a major American city brews up, we may just burn your city to the ground with you and all your friends in it. We tested two of these in Japan.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-9-2 2:36:24 PM|| 2003-9-2 2:36:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 At the risk of repeating myself, given that Tug is so opposed to what he views as our evil war in Iraq, I feel compelled to re-pose the question: "So, Tug, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for jihadi service in Iraq?" If he really believes the war is so evil, why is he not signing up to fight our boys?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-9-2 2:40:20 PM|| 2003-9-2 2:40:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Tug, you sound vaguely.... German???

Ahh... one of those dreadful words! I am a German. No, wait... it is worse. I am a French, who is working in the U.N. That explains all, doesn't it? Ignore my posts. Let's go back to "us against the world (sorry... I mean terrorists) galaxy", where everything is either black or white, and the lone star GWB (aka G. Cooper) fights all terrorists on his own, saving the town but getting no credit.

Posted by Tug 2003-9-2 2:40:58 PM|| 2003-9-2 2:40:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Let's go back to "us against the world (sorry... I mean terrorists) galaxy", where everything is either black or white, and the lone star GWB (aka G. Cooper) fights all terrorists on his own, saving the town but getting no credit.

Let's go back to "us against America (sorry... I mean Yankee imperialists) galaxy", where everything is either black or white, and the mob's leader Chirac (aka Che Guevara) fights Yankee imperialists with his UN buddies, saving the world and getting the Nobel Peace Prize.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-9-2 2:48:31 PM|| 2003-9-2 2:48:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Believe me, when a major American city brews up, we may just burn your city to the ground with you and all your friends in it. We tested two of these in Japan

Please, don't make Zhang Fei angry, or he will nuke your country. Look Zhang Fei, I am serious, if you speak like that I will never, ever play with you again.

At the risk of repeating myself, given that Tug is so opposed to what he views as our evil war in Iraq, I feel compelled to re-pose the question: "So, Tug, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for jihadi service in Iraq?" If he really believes the war is so evil, why is he not signing up to fight our boys?

Go on, Zhang Fei, "your boys" are so happy to have you back at home defending them so passionately against evil tug!

Posted by Tug 2003-9-2 2:53:43 PM|| 2003-9-2 2:53:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 Please, don't make Zhang Fei angry, or he will nuke your country. Look Zhang Fei, I am serious, if you speak like that I will never, ever play with you again.

Tug, you're pretty bright for a 2-year-old. I almost mistook you for an adult, but now that I know better, it's nap time. Nighty night...

Go on, Zhang Fei, "your boys" are so happy to have you back at home defending them so passionately against evil tug!

Go on, Tug, "your jihadi pals" are so happy to have you back at home defending them so passionately against Americans! I guess your precious tuckus is too valuable to risk in actual combat.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-9-2 3:16:41 PM|| 2003-9-2 3:16:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 Damn, I got Trolled. Why, oh why do I always fall for it.

Posted by Rafael 2003-9-2 4:15:08 PM|| 2003-9-2 4:15:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 hands up all who knew Murat was still lurking! We knew you were out there...

On another note, the culture of the Arabs is pure honour-shame and top-dog-ism. You cannot impose democracy or human rights in Iraq until you break that culture. And it runs strong and deep. It governs relations between family members, between neighbours, between business partners, it governs all negotiations from marriage to business deals, to whether you get a job.

Iraq requires cultural reformation that needs INTENSIVE policing.

And the Arabs are going to be publicly obsequious to whomever is in power but secretly be plotting their downfall unless this culture is reformed. that is the natural outgrowth of careerism in the context of honour-shame cultures.

Posted by Anon1 2003-9-2 7:14:02 PM|| 2003-9-2 7:14:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 Ernest Brown> I'm not convinced, by a long shot. Other than the fact that the article quotes no official source for making this accusation against Germany or France, Turkish politicians should still know that current politicians in Germany or France or anywhere else have only the power to freeze Turkey's entry while *they* are in power, not "for a generation".

But the fact remains that no politician is named as making that accusation, only a New York Sun reporter. Must I depend on trusting his word?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2003-9-2 8:00:15 PM|| 2003-9-2 8:00:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 Rafael Yes I agree. It is far better to wait until the mushroom clouds dissipate and half the country is made uninhabitable because of radiation before declaring war We all are safer now, because the U.S. picked up all the WMD that Saddam possesed, right? By the way, why don't you invade N.Korea or Pakistan. They are the ones with nukes. Ahhh. silly me. I answered my own question. only after the UN approves first. In fact, it is just far better to surrender, you know, America being the root of all evil doesn't deserve to exist. And don't forget the oil, it's all about the oil! Thank you Rafael, but I can speak my mind without your help. So, tell me, when are you going to volunteer for military service in Iraq?
Posted by: Tug 2003-9-2 1:55:22 PM

Tug, you insufferably ARROGANT asshat! You admit up front that you are not an American citizen, but have the sheer affrontery to insult this country's intentions and the brave men and women in service now, or who have served before, by asking Rafael if he's ready to wear the uniform! You have NO IDEA OF WHAT YOU SPEAK! So, shut the fuck up already. I've had enough of arrogant little shits like you.

I did not wear the uniform because of various circumstances after I graduated high school. However, I served my country in a different manner and served, with no little distinction I am told by my friends who were in uniform, alongside many a brave man and woman who was in uniform. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO EVEN BESMIRCH THEIR NAMES OR MEMORIES!

You, as you are not an American citizen, have no right to question the loyalty or service of ANY American, in uniform or out - BAR NONE!

So, STFU already.

Posted by FOTSGreg 2003-9-2 8:48:44 PM|| 2003-9-2 8:48:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 Toll of U.S. wounded rises fast
More than 1,100 wounded in action since Iraq war began

This doesn't mean diddly squat. Come back when the rate at which service personnel are being wounded/killed comes close to the Vietnam War.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2003-9-2 9:20:45 PM|| 2003-9-2 9:20:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 I am losing what you guys think the purpose of our military is. It seemed pretty straight forward at the Academy that one of my jobs was to protect trade routes throughout the world. As a plebe, they marched us around the yard and made us memorize the names of the dead guys on monuments like the Tripolitan Monument.

As far as I can tell those guys died to prevent the Barbary Pirates from interrupting free trade routes through the Mediterreanean. During the Iran/Iraq I spent some time escorting Kuaitti oilers through the straights of Hormuz to ensure that the Iranians didn't interrupt trade lanes. The French and the British were there as well.

The mission of the First Gulf War seemed consistent with this same mission. A mission I signed up to participate in and everybody that I know of also was proud to participate in.

Then we get shot in a big way. We neutralized part of that threat in Afghanistan. Everybody was happy. Everybody was proud to serve.

Then we decided to reevaluate some of the existing threats based on our getting whacked pretty hard. Iraq's failure to follow its committments with respect to the ceasefire from the Gulf War I needed addressing. This seemed especially essential when NK decided to show us the what happens when we take a non-serious attitude towards peoples threats. Iraq is neutralized with respect to threatening its neighbors.

Unfortunately, we are left with a difficult hostage situation in North Korea that is a result of our inattention before we got serious.

Honestly, NK and Iraq are not nor have they ever been threats to the continental United States. That is small comfort to the folks in Seoul that have been counting on American protection for 50 years. This is an unfortunate situation. If the number one consideration was to save the maximum number of lives of American troops, the U.S. would decimate all NK positions on the very day that sufficient JDAMs and Tomohawks are available.

You won't see it happen. We aren't cowboys. We're just very serious.

The kids that are out there doing what needs to be done are quite serious about doing this as well.

I was never shot at but was proud to serve the country as soldiers, sailors and airmen are the world over. As citizens we are not supposed to make our militaries safe. Our militaries are committed to ensure safety and freedom for civilians as best they can.

What we do owe those who protect is is to appreciate their sacrifice, do what we can for their families and pay attention as citizens. I can not immagine anyone visiting a site like Rantburg without being seriously commtted to paying attention to what is going on in the world.

We betray our military when we allow the USS Cole to be refueled in Aden instead of DiJibouti because some idiot statesperson wants to reach out to a new friend. That idiot was never held accountable. That can not happen.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-9-2 9:51:32 PM|| 2003-9-2 9:51:32 PM|| Front Page Top

08:16 raptor
00:06 Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire
23:58 Old Patriot
23:54 Bomb-a-rama
23:52 SOG475
23:49 Old Patriot
23:49 Bomb-a-rama
23:39 R. McLeod
23:20 Not Mike Moore
23:19 tu3031
23:13 Not Mike Moore
23:07 Not Mike Moore
23:04 tu3031
23:00 tu3031
22:53 tu3031
22:48 Sara
22:31 Me
22:22 Not Mike Moore
22:19 Not Mike Moore
22:16 Super Hose
22:15 Not Mike Moore
22:12 Not Mike Moore
22:11 Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire
22:08 Not Mike Moore