Article

2004-08-26 Iraq-Jordan

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Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-26 4:45:42 PM|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Now, as Paul Harvey would say, heres the rrrrrrest of the story...

"Itâs the same initiative that we had proposed"

I.E. Sadr caved. Sistani pitched the same deal that the Government did, and has apparently asked for the interim Government to supply National Guard Troops and Police to secure the facility after the Madhi Army leaves it.

But here is the big one that you guys might not get becuase you need to know the culture:

"Mr. Muqtada al-Sadr agreed..."
"and Mr. Muqtada al-Sadr."

Not "hujjat al-Islam Al-Sadr" - his official title (which he acclaimed himself, not from the Shia religuous hierarchy there - kinda like declaring yourself a bishop).

This was a BIG slap in the face designed to show that he is NOT a religious authority but is acting outside the faith.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-26 4:51:58 PM|| 2004-08-26 4:51:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Didnt you call it this way a couple of days ago OS, or am i confused?

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-26 4:53:17 PM|| 2004-08-26 4:53:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Sistani : Jr. Sadr, you accept this or I will send a note to cut back your virgin allottment.

Sadr: No! No! Not that!

Posted by BigEd 2004-08-26 4:57:46 PM|| 2004-08-26 4:57:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Dawoud said the government would not try to arrest radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr despite the weeks of violence.

"He is as free as any Iraqi citizen to do whatever he likes," he said.

Hmm, not EXACTLY a guarantee against future arrest, but I dont see that they can arrest Sadr anytime soon without dissing Sistani.

U.S. and coalition forces would pull out of Najaf as soon as interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi orders them to leave, Dawoud said.

To be replaced by IP and ING, so no problem.

The government also appeared to back down from its previous demand that al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia must disband and become a political party, saying only that the fighters should put down their arms.

Now i'm confused. Whats the point of being a militia if youre disarmed?

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-26 5:02:42 PM|| 2004-08-26 5:02:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 maybe they promised Tater a dental plan?

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-26 5:09:28 PM|| 2004-08-26 5:09:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 "Whats the point of being a militia if youre disarmed"

Exactly... heh heh.

This looks like Sistani must ahve really been working with the government - the "dis" by not using his title was repeated and deliberate. And the Shia in Iraq will quickly catch on.

This deflates Sadr, as does the arrest of 2 of Sadr's tribal right-hand men, caught red-handed stealing artifacts from the Imam Ali shrine.

And there will be an accouting as well - apparently, the month's reciepts were sitting in there when Sadr's gunmens took over the place by threatening to kill the custodians and keepers of the Mosque.

If they publicise the looting and theft, and Sistani makes it very public, the air will be out of Tater's ballon in a hurry. Same goes if they find Iranians and Syrians (which they will IMHO), and make very public cases of convicting them and deporting them (or publicly executing them under Islamic Law for defilement of the Mosque).

This is a great opportunity if the Allawi government and Sistani can manage to allow Sistani to get the Glory while the government gets the Power.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-26 5:14:08 PM|| 2004-08-26 5:14:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 And one more thing: if Sadr backs out now, Sistani will call down the Islamic Thunder on his head. If there's one thing the Shia do not do, is that you do not publicly disrespect a cleric senior to you.

The only problems now are:

1) all those people that marched to Najaf need to be convinced to go home - and that includes probably large numbers of Iranians, Madhi Army and Zawqari who wanted to take advantage of the crowds to smuggle more armed men and weaponry into Najaf.

2) If the Madhi Army did exfiltrate, where did they go? We need to prevent them from massing somewhere else, like Kufa nearby, or causing trouble up in Mosul or down in Basra or even back to Sadr City in Baghdad. We need to track where these mutts went and be ready to thit them hard at the first sing of any organized action again.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-26 5:19:49 PM|| 2004-08-26 5:19:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 GAAAH! I wish I could go back and edit - the "ONLY PROBLEMS" above should read "Only immediate problems"

Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-26 5:21:03 PM|| 2004-08-26 5:21:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Frank G #5 wrote:
maybe they promised Tater a dental plan?

You mean: "You come out outta there now, or I'm comin' in and bashin' all your teeth in..."?

Posted by eLarson 2004-08-26 5:31:24 PM|| [http://larsonian.blogspot.com] 2004-08-26 5:31:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 I hope it works out the way you suggest, OldSpook, but I'll believe it when I see it. My gut feeling is that Tater has too many friends in Sadr City to let him slip out of this noose, and Sistani and Allawi have just made a big mistake.

Posted by Tom 2004-08-26 5:35:46 PM|| 2004-08-26 5:35:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 I think our guys need to make sure Sadr stays alive. He's exactly the kind of leader we want the enemy to have - someone who alienates Iraqis and gets the men under him killed in large numbers. I can never understand Sadr's urge gather his forces to do a stand-up fight against our guys. Far more advantageous from their perspective to keep on mining the roads, and popping off mortar rounds. The good thing about Sadr's continued good health is long as he's alive, a more capable leader won't fill his shoes.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-26 5:40:21 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-26 5:40:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Rather Not is spinning this right now as a defeat for the Americans and Allawi. It was a quagmire, you see. Sadr would never have quit unless Sistani had decided to step in and tell the young cleric to step aside. The Americans and the Coalition were impotent to the powers of the might Sadr until Sistani arrived on the scene.

"Iraq has two governments, one led by American infidel occupiers and one led by the Almighty Sistani, Supreme Shia Leader, controller of the masses who could rise up and repel the evil occupation should he just give the command.

well..it was something like that.

Blah..it is a bit of a propaganda victory for Sistani. But the bottom line is that Sadr was neutered and the coalition can continue its business. Whatever power Sistiani has, he has and Dan Rather's blather won't change it much.

The spin makes me mad...but bravo the US and Iraqi Army. Job well done.

Posted by B 2004-08-26 6:49:14 PM|| 2004-08-26 6:49:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 If Sistani can effectively neuter Tater this time, then some good can come out of it. Tater should be at the 3 strikes you're out part of the game. The Iranians shot their wad with Tater. They could not find anyone else to fit the bill on short notice. Sistani is a royal pain in the ass, and we are forced to do some kind of perverted dance with him, but Iran is the entity behind the majority of the trouble we are having in iraq right now.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-08-26 8:20:21 PM|| 2004-08-26 8:20:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 The shrine has a safe with treasures collected over many years. Sadr's thugs beat the caretaker of the shrine and took the key for 'safekeeping'. At that point the treasures of the Shia's holiest shrine were the responsibility of Sadr. Want to bet that theres stuff missing? Want to bet that both Sadr and al-Sistani know that? Want to bet that Sadr disappears accross the Iran border before word gets out?

Posted by A Jackson 2004-08-26 10:21:44 PM|| 2004-08-26 10:21:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Want to bet that Allawi has lookouts posted already?

And once its known that Sadr was just a common looter, want to bet about a sh*tload of pissed SHia there as well?

It all depends on how Sistani wants to play it.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-26 11:23:11 PM|| 2004-08-26 11:23:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 OldSpook: Do we come out as bystanders if details of the looting come out. (Hard to see how the tater-tots could resist grabbing the lucre.) Or does it get pinned on us somehow?

Posted by Classical_Liberal 2004-08-27 1:28:50 AM|| 2004-08-27 1:28:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Old Spook,as long as the Mahdi mass in an area without the benefit of a venerated mosque for sanctuary, don't they become more of a public sanitation problem? How long would the assualt have taken if they were inhabitating a lower tier mosque - you know, one that we could just spruce up a little after we de-loused it?

Posted by Super Hose 2004-08-27 2:51:29 AM|| 2004-08-27 2:51:29 AM|| Front Page Top

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