Article

2004-08-24 Russia

One plane crash, one plane 'looses contact' in Russia

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Posted by Lux 2004-08-24 6:09:33 PM|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3596354.stm

Plane 'crashes south of Moscow'

A plane with 62 people on board has reportedly crashed in the Russian region of Tula.
The Itar-Tass news agency reports that the plane went down about 180km (110miles) south of the capital, Moscow. The were 54 passengers and eight crew on board, the agency said. It is not yet known whether there were any casualities.

More soon.

Posted by Lux 2004-08-24 6:11:58 PM|| 2004-08-24 6:11:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Tula is roughly 800 km from Rostov-on-Don. Whatever it is, it is not a collision. Another report indicates that the second plane disappeared within five minutes of the first (11:00PM local time vs. 10:56).

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-08-24 6:24:01 PM|| 2004-08-24 6:24:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Second plane now reported crashed near Rostov

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-24 6:25:29 PM|| 2004-08-24 6:25:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Chechens carrying out that plot from years ago to blow up several planes over the Pacific simultaneously?

This is a very weird story.

Posted by Laurence of the Rats 2004-08-24 6:26:20 PM|| [http://www.punictreachery.com/] 2004-08-24 6:26:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 And still the Russians will help the Iranians build their nuclear reactor/weapon plants. How many dead Russians is it going to take for them to understand that they have to really get on board with us in the WoT???

Posted by remote man 2004-08-24 6:46:21 PM|| 2004-08-24 6:46:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Gazeta.ru (in Russian) says:

Left Moscow at about the same time (22.00).
Went off air about the same time (22.56 and 22.59).

The plane that crashed in the Tula area exploded mid air

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-24 6:53:30 PM|| 2004-08-24 6:53:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Shades of 9-11...one plane crashes, it's an accident. 2 planes crash...it's terrorism!

All Russian aircraft will be grounded immediately.

W calls Putin.

Blair calls Putin.

EU wonders what to do.

Posted by RN 2004-08-24 7:02:36 PM|| 2004-08-24 7:02:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 EU wonders what to do.

The French immediately offer the answer: SURRENDER!

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-08-24 7:07:15 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-08-24 7:07:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Moscow Domodevodo Airport is still open

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-24 7:11:25 PM|| 2004-08-24 7:11:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 There has been a bomb at a bus stop in Moscow as well, across from a police station. Via Lgf

Link requires registration, here is the text:

A bomb exploded at a Moscow bus stop, injuring four people, a spokesman for the capitalâs Federal Security Service said.

The explosion had a force of about 100 grams of TNT, the security serviceâs duty officer said, citing preliminary information.

It shattered the glass walls of the bus shelter located on Kashirskoye highway in southern Moscow.

The four injured included a woman who was in grave condition at a Moscow hospital, authorities said.

Kirill Mazurin, spokesman for the Moscow police, said on Russiaâs NTV television that authorities were investigating the attack as hooliganism.

NTV reported that terrorism had not been ruled out since the bus stop was located across from a police station and the explosion went off at a time when officers were usually leaving work.

Posted by Laurence of the Rats 2004-08-24 7:13:43 PM|| [http://www.punictreachery.com/] 2004-08-24 7:13:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Airports must stay open to accept acft ordered to land. If I were a pilot I'd be putting down ASAP.

Posted by RN 2004-08-24 7:24:41 PM|| 2004-08-24 7:24:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Damn right

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-24 7:27:13 PM|| 2004-08-24 7:27:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Beeb says:

The second plane [is] said to be a Tu-154 flying from Moscow to the Black Sea resort of Sochi...President Putin is currently on holiday in Sochi.

Hmmm...

Posted by Angie Schultz 2004-08-24 7:29:27 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2004-08-24 7:29:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Horrible news.
I've got a friend (American) serving with our embassy in Moscow who's due to come home about now...hope he's OK but still many have been killed.
It's gotta be Chechens--and yes, the sooner Putin realizes that we're fighting the same war as he is, because the Chechens are trained, armed and funded by Al Queda, the better we all will be.
(And Bush needs to do so also, because Chechnya used to be considered by even the US as a "valid separatist movement.")
There's another RB post today about Georgia...well, someday soon, someone's going to have to help the Georgians clean the terrorists out of the Pankisi Gorge and I have a bad feeling it's going to be US military.
And maybe this is where Zaqarwi took his jihad...?

Posted by GreatestJeneration 2004-08-24 7:45:11 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-08-24 7:45:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 We cannot be reactive, we will need to be proactive, which means preemptive. All this terrorist stuff and resources goes back to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistani elements, and other smuggling or dope trade operations. Europe will just sit there and take it like Spain, or they will create a terrorist Czar, who will be taking a vacation. If anything is going to happen, it will start with the US, UK, Australia, and Russia. Maybe these hits will wake them up. I sure hope so. We cannot be divided if we are to survive and win. Dhimmitude is not an option.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-08-24 8:05:46 PM|| 2004-08-24 8:05:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I wish we had the cojones to clean up a bit of unfinished business in our own house first, but I doubt it. There are far too many Americans willing to roll over and play dhimmi, including at least one ex-president. They need to be neutered - with a blowtorch (but then, I'm just a bloodthirsty savage, so what do I know). If we don't get busy and actually FIGHT this damned war, we might just lose it.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-08-24 8:20:36 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-08-24 8:20:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 I think some Chechens set them up the bomb.

Well when Bush declares Russian attempts to get the Chechens under control part of the WOT Russia might listen to us a bit more. But Bush just let one Chechen have asylum here in the US. The EU wants them to negotiate with the jihadists So don't expect too much help in the WOT from Russia.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-08-24 9:04:16 PM|| 2004-08-24 9:04:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 How many dead Russians is it going to take for them to understand...

This is Russia. They lost about 50,000 men on one particular day in their push toward Berlin near the end of WW2. They seem to have a higher threshold then the rest of us.

Posted by Rafael 2004-08-24 9:12:59 PM|| 2004-08-24 9:12:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 I think some Chechens set them up the bomb.

If only they had moved zig for great justice, then all their base wouldn't belong to us . . . or something.

Posted by spiffo 2004-08-24 9:25:40 PM|| 2004-08-24 9:25:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 re; Chechen asylum - I believe it was one of our immigration judges, not W, that allowed him in

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-24 9:40:33 PM|| 2004-08-24 9:40:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 While I wouldn't be surprised if this was Islamacist, it's too soon to be sure it isn't a major Russian mafia move, something re: the Yukos affair or another internal issue.

Most likely Islamacist, but let's wait and see who was on those planes ... if any officials were killed, or any key industrialists, or journalists, it might be that sort of hit instead.

Maybe.

Posted by rkb 2004-08-24 9:42:15 PM|| 2004-08-24 9:42:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 And still the Russians will help the Iranians build their nuclear reactor/weapon plants. How many dead Russians is it going to take for them to understand that they have to really get on board with us in the WoT???

End of story, remote man. Until ~~Ras~~Putin stops trying to play both sides against the middle, he's going to be counting a lot more body bags. Arming China with advanced TMD (Theater Missile Defense) systems needs to be shoved up his @ss sideays too.

Posted by Anonymous6166 2004-08-24 10:13:20 PM|| 2004-08-24 10:13:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 If this was the Chechens, then maybe all that talk about Russian troops coming to Iraq may come to fruition - Putin could probably use US support in Georgia and Chechnya, and we could use their bulk numbers in Iraq.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-24 10:18:30 PM|| 2004-08-24 10:18:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 OS, are you serious? You spend all day Sunday convincing me that we should dance this ballet with Sadr to make sure he doesn't look like a martyr and then you want to invite the subduers of Grozny in to help. Talk about a bear in a china shop. Why? Aside from warm bodies what do they bring to the party? A source of cheap vodka for Iraq? The Russians have always coveted southern expansion. Why should we give them a toehold, even if they are down currently? Give them a free ride on Chechnya and think twice about Georgia, no more.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-08-24 10:29:34 PM|| 2004-08-24 10:29:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 The Russian press already calls it acts of terrorism.

Hmmm I doubt that Putin will send troops to Iraq. After this he doesn't really need the U.S. to be quiet about Chechnya. And I doubt that the U.S. would trade in Georgia... if they did they'd lose a lot of credibility in other countries like Uzbekistan etc.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-24 10:35:14 PM|| 2004-08-24 10:35:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 MD: You spend all day Sunday convincing me that we should dance this ballet with Sadr to make sure he doesn't look like a martyr and then you want to invite the subduers of Grozny in to help.

I think there are other reasons for not offing Sadr. I think he's shown himself to be incompetent. That's a good quality for a leader for the other side to have. The more people he attracts to his side, the more of them will get killed off. The guy's like a decoy luring jihadis to their deaths.

Part of the problem we have in Iraq is trying to find the enemy and trying to get him to face our boys in a stand-up kind of fight. That's what Najaf is all about. Anyone who's studied Arab motivation - and the history of the Arab-Israeli wars - knows that there isn't an endless supply of jihadis. The trick is to get them to fight our boys face-to-face instead of laying IED's along our truck routes. Thanks to Sadr, this is coming to fruition.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-24 10:38:43 PM|| 2004-08-24 10:38:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 TGA, Agreed, that's why I'd think twice but not come to a different conclusion either time.

ZF, regardless, what do the Russians bring to the party in Iraq?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-08-24 10:47:21 PM|| 2004-08-24 10:47:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 MD: Russians bring warm bodies that can be deployed to the borders to secure them, and to patrol the hiways across the empty areas. This would free up Iraqi and US troops to clear the interior.

Its that simple. Russian troops under MNF command would not be "butchers" - and they would fill manpower needs that we simply cannot meet, allowing the Syrian border to be sealed, and the Iranian border to be clamped down more effectively.

Also, they would put a halt to the "not international" criticism of the US.

The Russians gain international stature, and get the US to look the other way while they crush the Chechen Islamofascists. And their troops get valuable "trigger time" in Iraw that makes them more useful for Russia back home - and thier officer crops gets first hand lessons for US officers in how to operate in modern mobile fashion - a transformation that Putin has been trying to force on the Russian military for the past few years.

SO its not letting the bear into the china shop - its getting bodies in the less demanding secotrs so we can use less troops overall, but more of them where we need them. Its a military term called "concentration of force" - something we cannot acheive now except on a smaller scale and in limited geographic areas.

Having 40-50K helpers on the borders, securing the oil and power infrastructure, and along the lines of communication, will allow our troops to concentrate on training the Iraqis, and going into battle along side of the Iraqis to end the guerilla attacks, and doing the civil projects that will prop up their economy - and a viable and robust economy is the ultimate solution to the problem there.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-24 11:08:30 PM|| 2004-08-24 11:08:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Postscript:

Its not THE optimal solution, but its certainly one that should not be discarded out of hand due to old prejudices and news distortions.

Putin can wrap himself in the mantle of the WoT,, we get help we need, he gets "stature" he needs at home as well as a the bonus of a bunch of well trained combat veteran troops and officers - who will change the balance greatly when deployed against the Chechens and any other of the brush wars Russia needs to fight on their own periphery.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-24 11:13:26 PM|| 2004-08-24 11:13:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 OS you got over the Cold War a lot faster than I. Russia and Syria are not a pairing that has historically meant good news for America. But you are always thought provoking.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-08-24 11:13:29 PM|| 2004-08-24 11:13:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Interfax says planes sent hijacking alerts (not confirmed yet)

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-24 11:30:52 PM|| 2004-08-24 11:30:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 I didnt "forget" the cold war given thats whre I earned and learned a lot of my trade skills.

But I am willing to look at Russia as an ally of convenience, because it means less Americans will die military and civilian, and Iraq will stabilize that much more quickly - which helps us immensely in winning the WoT against Syria & Iran and the Pakistani Madrassas & Saudi financers.

Thats why I'm willing to look at the odd angles, and go outside the box. Its sort of how I earned (and to some extent still do earn) a living.

My overriding concern isn't politics as much as it is doing the right things and getting the right results. And it this case the end result needs to be a scure nationa nd less of our civilians and troops dying in the process -a nd as a side effect, spreading liberty into all parts of the globe - which is the best way to guarantee that our grandshcildren will not have to fight these guys on our shores, or over there.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-08-24 11:52:51 PM|| 2004-08-24 11:52:51 PM|| Front Page Top

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