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2006-08-21 Britain
Top model's brother is new face of terrorism
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Posted by Bernie 2006-08-21 15:32|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 "He was a Christian until he converted to Islam about a year ago"

Um... excuse me for saying this ....but.... no Christian has ever converted to anything. Ever. Not to wax religious or anything, but once a person is born of the Spirit, they will not leave the faith and 'convert' to a moon-god death cult, or any other religion for that matter.

This guy may be many things, but he was never a Christian.
Posted by mcsegeek1 2006-08-21 18:01||   2006-08-21 18:01|| Front Page Top

#2 good point, mcsegeek1.
Posted by Xenophon 2006-08-21 19:47||   2006-08-21 19:47|| Front Page Top

#3 Very true, mcsegeek1.
Posted by djohn66 2006-08-21 19:57||   2006-08-21 19:57|| Front Page Top

#4 Not to wax religious or anything, but once a person is born of the Spirit, they will not leave the faith and 'convert' to a moon-god death cult, or any other religion for that matter.

Sounds just like Islam, except without the death-for-apostasy thingie. While that is a significant difference, the rhetoric is very much the same.
Posted by Zenster 2006-08-21 20:19||   2006-08-21 20:19|| Front Page Top

#5 Zenster your phobia showing again.
Posted by djohn66 2006-08-21 20:44||   2006-08-21 20:44|| Front Page Top

#6 Phobia? Do tell? I will defend freedom of religion to the death. It is one of the things that has made America the greatest superpower on earth. I just dislike hypocrisy. To say that conversion from one religion is impossible while decrying another (admittedly putative) faith for maintaining the exact same thing is dispicable.

Either conversion from any given religion to another is possible or it is not. No exceptions.
Posted by Zenster 2006-08-21 20:59||   2006-08-21 20:59|| Front Page Top

#7 I never said muslims had to convert to anything and based on muslim religion they are not aloud, so I assume that a muslim that supposedly converts was not truely muslim.
Posted by djohn66 2006-08-21 21:02||   2006-08-21 21:02|| Front Page Top

#8 I just dislike hypocrisy.
Now THAT is bold. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on ice cream! How about parks?

What mcsegeek1 is talking about, I think, is what Christian theologians call the difference between faith and a "said-faith". The latter is where someone talks the talk, but there is precious little visible of the proverbial fruit in evidence. It gets into that sticky matter of Faith and Works, which is some of the toughest ground to cover in Christian thought. If someone wants to go into it, drop me a line. I fear it would bore most folks to tears.
Posted by eLarson 2006-08-21 21:10|| http://larsonian.blogspot.com]">[http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2006-08-21 21:10|| Front Page Top

#9 It gets into that sticky matter of Faith and Works, which is some of the toughest ground to cover in Christian thought.

Better to cover it now, then. Apparently claiming that one religion is the "true faith" in ascendance over all others reeks and that was my point. While Christianity certainly is light-years ahead of Islam, it is not the end-all and be-all of religious faiths. Man's spirituality, perfection, salvation or even supposed redemption (whatever the heck that is) is not the sole province of one church or a single saviour. The paths to human enlightenment are many, but they all lead through the one critical realm of peaceful coexistence, something that Islam seems unable to reconcile itself to.
Posted by Zenster 2006-08-21 21:24||   2006-08-21 21:24|| Front Page Top

#10 Zenster you assume that all Christian are like Pat Robertson and we are in lock step. I am one of those scary Southern Baptist all them LLL say is turning US into a Theocracy. but I never in my life said that if your not a Southern Baptist that you are not a christian or that you are going to hell. I have no beef with Luthern, Methodist, Catholic, or even Muslim if they are not trying to kill us and I never tried to convert anybody, maybe in some christian eyes that makes me less christian, but I will be judged by God not man.
Posted by djohn66 2006-08-21 21:39||   2006-08-21 21:39|| Front Page Top

#11 I'm afraid you sound just as doctrinaire as those you condemn when you state "Man's spirituality, perfection, salvation or even supposed redemption (whatever the heck that is) is not the sole province of one church or a single saviour. The paths to human enlightenment are many, but they all lead through the one critical realm of peaceful coexistence, something that Islam seems unable to reconcile itself to."

How did you come to that conclusion?
Posted by eLarson 2006-08-21 21:44|| http://larsonian.blogspot.com]">[http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2006-08-21 21:44|| Front Page Top

#12 Zenster you assume that all Christian are like Pat Robertson and we are in lock step

Please do not make false assumptions, especially patently repugnant ones, about what I do or do not think. Have you bothered to notice my routine and repeated praise for Pope Benedict's calling of Islam on the carpet for its disallowal of freedom of religion?

Actually, djohn66, I find your lack of prostyletizing commendable. Contrary to what Islam thinks, one cannot hit people over the head with religion. Either it is found voluntarily or not at all. I would dare say that your calmly awaiting others' enlightenment instead of thrusting your own vision of it upon them to be a credit to your beliefs.
Posted by Zenster 2006-08-21 21:52||   2006-08-21 21:52|| Front Page Top

#13 Contrary to what Islam thinks, one cannot hit people over the head with religion.

I agree with that. The Evangelical Christian knows that he does not "convert" anyone. The best he can do is share the Gospel. Jesus gave the parable of the sower as an example.
Posted by eLarson 2006-08-21 21:54|| http://larsonian.blogspot.com]">[http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2006-08-21 21:54|| Front Page Top

#14 How did you come to that conclusion?

Which conclusion, eLarson? This one?

While Christianity certainly is light-years ahead of Islam, it is not the end-all and be-all of religious faiths.

This observation is based upon, not only the numerous fallabilities exhibited by Christianity, but the presence of many noble and beneficent individuals who never embraced the Christian faith yet still brought great good to this world. As in Einstein, Ghandi and many others of their ilk.

Or was it this?

Man's spirituality, perfection, salvation or even supposed redemption (whatever the heck that is) is not the sole province of one church or a single saviour.

Mankind's spirit was already developing for millennia before Judaism or Christ himself (whose onetime physical existence I do believe in), ever trod the earth. It continues to develop today with and without Christianity's midwifing. I firmly believe in the perfectability of man and consider the need for redemption or salvation artifacts of a particularly ugly throwback in Christianity, namely, original sin. I also believe that the perfection of the human spirit can arise through many different channels. Christianity is definitely one of them, but most certainly it is not the only one. Nor is the adoption of a particular saviour a perquisite to human enlightenment. It might be one method of realigning a person's values and morals to better suit themselves to peaceful cohabitation on earth, but not the only way.

Or was it this?

The paths to human enlightenment are many, but they all lead through the one critical realm of peaceful coexistence, something that Islam seems unable to reconcile itself to.

Which I feel is fairly self-explanatory.
Posted by Zenster 2006-08-21 22:06||   2006-08-21 22:06|| Front Page Top

#15 Sorry Zenster I should not assume my apology.That is what I always hear when people are telling me what christians think, they are always saying , but Pat Robertson says and I just have to roll my eyes.
Posted by djohn66 2006-08-21 22:10||   2006-08-21 22:10|| Front Page Top

#16 No harm, no foul, djohn66. Pat Robertson is just a few doctrinal shades away from Fred Phelps. It is almost a physical impossibility for me to confuse either of them with actual Christians. I appreciate your honest response.
Posted by Zenster 2006-08-21 22:17||   2006-08-21 22:17|| Front Page Top

23:50 trailing wife
23:45 Zenster
23:16 DMFD
23:13 DMFD
23:02 Jules in the Hinterlands
22:47 FOTSGreg
22:47 Zenster
22:36 Zenster
22:32 Sleresing Hupolunter2709
22:21 Zenster
22:17 Zenster
22:10 djohn66
22:06 Zenster
21:58 Captain America
21:56 Saint Jimbo
21:55 muck4doo
21:54 eLarson
21:54 Captain America
21:52 Zenster
21:51 Saint Jimbo
21:44 eLarson
21:43 tu3031
21:43 Nimble Spemble
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