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2006-08-21 Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Europeans Delay Decision on Back Out of Role Inside Lebanon
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Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2006-08-21 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Amazing, the Euros condemn Israelis for taking a bit out of Hezbos, cry for ceasefire (make it stop! make it stop!), and then back out of any commitment.
Posted by Captain America 2006-08-21 00:35||   2006-08-21 00:35|| Front Page Top

#2 Yeah, #1 CA - amazing.

In other news, water is wet.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2006-08-21 00:37|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]  2006-08-21 00:37|| Front Page Top

#3 My, this does not make the UN or the Europeans look good.
Posted by Fordesque 2006-08-21 01:04||   2006-08-21 01:04|| Front Page Top

#4 They are teflon coated by God Kofi himself so nothing will stick.
Posted by 3dc 2006-08-21 01:08||   2006-08-21 01:08|| Front Page Top

#5 The most pathetic institution on the planet.
Posted by djohn66 2006-08-21 01:10||   2006-08-21 01:10|| Front Page Top

#6 Hummm -- Kofi is so worried about his legacy when departing in December.. so he can't really be happy with this change of events.

Being from the NYT, gotta be noted, someone is at least recognizing, nobody is going to Lebanon. Nobody but the Islamics want to go.

Picture of the week was the baker's dozen French soldiers arriving by watercraft! Had to LOL at that! (Blackfive has a picture, Chris Wallace had video clip on Fox)

From a poster at Belmont Club, commenting on an article by a BBC columnist named Hastings of the "Peace in our Time believers, appro the position of these Europeans backing out of commitments:

"The attitude of Mr. Hastings especially puts Tony Blair into a horrible situation. The British National Party is making inroads on the core constituency of the Labor Party – the blue collar vote. Mr. Blair is ideologically opposed to the BNP and racism in general, yet he also knows that if his defeatist critics on his backbench get their way, the way would be paved for the real racists to gain sway. What Mr. Hastings fails to comprehend is that Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair are in a race against time to prevent a real war against Islam."

I found this statement of this race against time, one that deserves some thought. Kinda fits in with the earlier discussion about lots of folks feeling an impending something is about to happen.

Are Bush and Blair showing down the war? Certainly a new thought, that I've not read or heard folks talking about.

Could be like one anonymous military stated about getting our Navy and Marines in position for the evacuation of folks out of Lebanon, "Well, it takes time to get certain people to certain positions to do the certain things that certain people do in certain positions."
Posted by Sherry">Sherry  2006-08-21 02:06||   2006-08-21 02:06|| Front Page Top

#7 opss -- got A's each Friday in elementary school on spelling tests. Didn't translate to my ability to spell, or to use the right letters on keyboards.

Let's change "Are Bush and Blair showing down the war" to "Are Bush and Blair slowing down the war"
Posted by Sherry">Sherry  2006-08-21 02:11||   2006-08-21 02:11|| Front Page Top

#8 FOX Boys > made the Frenchies look good by still using the number "400" before breakfast. STill hard to explain how 15000 =became 2-4000 became 2-400 became SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, 200.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2006-08-21 03:12||   2006-08-21 03:12|| Front Page Top

#9 #8 Joe - It's New Math, of course.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2006-08-21 03:13|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]  2006-08-21 03:13|| Front Page Top

#10 Ok, sort of O.T. here, but what's to prevent the gulf states from funneling $ to the Palis under the cover of "rebuilding Lebanon"? Not that the "Coalition of the Unwilling" here would actually do much about it if they saw it going on, but I really doubt Malaysia would raise the alarm, for example.
Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-08-21 04:23|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]  2006-08-21 04:23|| Front Page Top

#11 What Mr. Hastings fails to comprehend is that Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair are in a race against time to prevent a real war against Islam.

Why shouldn't there be a real war against Islam? Islam has mounted a real war against civilization.
Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford  2006-08-21 06:16|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2006-08-21 06:16|| Front Page Top

#12 A week ago I thought that the Israeli attack was hampered by a reluctant Olmert, and the cease fire was intended to give Israel a chance to remove Olmert and prepare to attack a second time. Now, I can see the brilliant move to expose the UN as the collection of yoyos they are.
Priceless.
Posted by wxjames 2006-08-21 07:32||   2006-08-21 07:32|| Front Page Top

#13 Thats exactly whats happening Swamp Blondie, good catch! Now a number of NGO's, for peace of course, will go in there and rebuild Hezbullah.

The French have this fear of Bosnia happening to them again, cowards cowards cowards. Well if my memory is right it was the French and the rest of europe that stood by and watched the ethnic clensing of Bosnia, only to go in when it was just about over and fairly safe. I think at the end of the day europes cold feet will help Israel in this war by not getting in the middle of it in any real sense, boots on the ground. Israel will ignore europe and needs nothing from them to be successful against the Hez.
Posted by 49 Pan">49 Pan  2006-08-21 08:18||   2006-08-21 08:18|| Front Page Top

#14  Sunday when the European countries that had been called upon to provide the backbone of a peacekeeping force delayed a decision on committing troops until the mission is more clearly defined.

Yes indeed, please if you will, further define "peacekeeping." The Hezbots must be dancing in the streets and praying to Alan that the Euros never come. I think their prayers will be answered.

Meanwhile .... In Lebanon, Prime Minister Fuad Saniora, a Sunni Muslim, and parliament speaker Nabih Berri, a Shiite and Hezbollah supporters, decried the destruction wrought by Israeli bombs as “crimes against humanity” during a highly publicized tour of the devastated guerrilla stronghold in Beirut’s southern suburbs on Sunday.

WTF? I thought the Jooooooos failed and they "WON" the bloody war.
Posted by Besoeker 2006-08-21 08:35||   2006-08-21 08:35|| Front Page Top

#15 So what wel will end up here is a un force that basically provides security for Hezbullah. WTG eu just goes to show that they are all talk and no action.
P.S. I thought the Bosnia was that shining jewell of the Clinton administration? I guess I was wrong.
Posted by Cyber Sarge 2006-08-21 10:32||   2006-08-21 10:32|| Front Page Top

#16 49Pan, part of the French experience in Bosnia was that (if you'll recall) the Euros had a 'peacekeeping' force in Bosnia well before America and 'NATO' intervened. It was completely ineffective. The Dutch allowed the massacre at Srebrenica, and the French force was humiliated by Serb paramilitary units on a number of occasions. If my recollection is correct, there was one situation in which the Serbs handcuffed a French junior officer to a tree when he tried to intervene to stop a village from being hit.

I think the French tried to blame all this on 'unclear rules of engagement', when in fact the French politicans, like the Dutch, German, etc, weren't willing to face the situation and acknowledge that it would take some bloodshed to enforce a peace in Bosnia. Say what you want about Billy Jeff, he at least had gotten the message from Rwanda (genocide results when no one does anything about it) and wasn't about to let that happen in Bosnia. So when we intervened, we landed on the Serbs with both feet.

It's clear that the French politicans, all of them, didn't get the message. There's still in the mindset that says they want to talk big, be the big cat but not risk anything. Part of that comes from the fact that while French soldiers and officers are good, the French army is not: it lacks equipment, doctrine and numbers to be an effective expeditionary force. But a big part of it is the lack of moral fiber in the French politicans, and a large number of the French people. Lacking a clear sense of right and wrong in these matters, it becomes easy to waffle.
Posted by Steve White">Steve White  2006-08-21 11:13||   2006-08-21 11:13|| Front Page Top

#17 we landed on the Serbs with both feet.

Both wings, perhaps, but not both feet. Personally I wasn't too enthusiastic about that terror bombing then, and I've not heard much to make me any more enthusiastic in the meantime. We should have stayed out and let the Euros stew in their own juices.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-21 11:19||   2006-08-21 11:19|| Front Page Top

#18 This hideous joke called UN needs to be ended today. I do not want one additional penny of US tax monies going to this shithole. In addition, I want them off US territory immediately. Just observing any of their actions makes me want to puke.
Posted by SOP35/Rat 2006-08-21 11:29||   2006-08-21 11:29|| Front Page Top

#19 We sat in Macedonia waiting and watching, you are right. I do remember the French going in and Serbs taking the Dutch Brigade captive and all their equipment while Europe, and the US, watched. I was part of the task force in Europe that was supposed to go get the Dutch but our prez called it off. I believe we should have gone in sooner rather than after the genocide was over.

The thing that sets us up different from the French is the ROE. It sounds as if they are waiting the UN to define it for them, always a bad call. When we go we damn near publish it to the locals and the enemy, clearly defining the rules we will stand by. It gives our soldiers the teeth necessary to stay safe and not wind up hand cuffed to a tree or smoking a “last” cigarette with Milosavitch. This makes Steve right again when he talks about Europe political lack of will.
Posted by 49 Pan">49 Pan  2006-08-21 12:18||   2006-08-21 12:18|| Front Page Top

#20 
what you want about Billy Jeff, he at least had gotten the message from Rwanda (genocide results when no one does anything about it)


Except that the Rwandan genocide happenned after most of the vents in Bosnia. And that Americans were manipulated into believing that the Serbs were all evil and Muslims all candid doves. They should have taken a loook at the looong historian of Serb massacres perpetrated by Muslims (the later while allied with the Nazis), they should have investigated Izbetjekovic biography (he was a member of the Hanshar SS division whose atrocities apalled the "normal" SS themselves), they should have looked at Izbetjekovic proipaganda (islamic horsemen trampling serbs) and his statements about Isalmic societies not being mixable with non-Islamic ones.

I al not saying that the Serbs were right in the way they conducted the war butr they have every right not want to remain in the same state that people who elect a former SS and an actual islamo-fascist.
Posted by JFM">JFM  2006-08-21 12:21||   2006-08-21 12:21|| Front Page Top

#21 And, don't forget what triggered that overall war: Croatia seceeded from Yugoslavia and was immediately recognized by Germany. The loudest voices in Croatia for the move were people associated with the Nazis in WWII. Did that let the Serb nationalists rally Serbs in response? You bet it did.
Posted by lotp 2006-08-21 12:28||   2006-08-21 12:28|| Front Page Top

#22 Steve, that was a Dutch officer that was handcuffed to a tree. The bombing thing made little sense at the time and I was involved in that part of it. We also identified "mass" graves sites but for some reason the numbers didn't add up to the 10 of thousands that the Bosnians claimed. No I am not a fan of the Serbs but the Bosniacs sort of remind me of the European version of the Palestinians. The Croats are just a step above the Serbs but they were equally brutal to any Bosniac that didn't tow the line. During the Croatian offensive “Storm” some Bosnians POWs had Serb guards one day and Croatians the next. The treatment didn’t get much better for them either. When we (U.S.) put boots on the ground the Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians all started to play nice. That is also when a lot of Bosnians (Muslim fanatics) started taking some retribution for their treatment by the Serbs/Croats.
Posted by Cyber Sarge 2006-08-21 12:37||   2006-08-21 12:37|| Front Page Top

#23 Overall, an area not worth the bones of a New Jersery Guardsman, but a lot of fine Americans do hail from all parts there. Sort of interesting the magic America has had on people who can come here and intermarry before the folks in the old country stop shooting at eachother.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-21 12:51||   2006-08-21 12:51|| Front Page Top

#24 Thanks for the corrections and insights to what I wrote.
Posted by Steve White">Steve White  2006-08-21 15:00||   2006-08-21 15:00|| Front Page Top

#25 lets not start on ex Yugo - again - I will only say Steve, that you are not as far wrong as some commentators indicate.

Back to topic - its not unreasonable, per se, for the French to back off on troops - they ARE in the Balkans and Ivory Coast in a big way, and IIUC there are some in Afghanistan as well (though not on the front lines like the brits, Canadians, and Dutch) So they MAY be suffereing a bit of overstretch. BUT - the role they took in the end of war diplomacy implied that they WERE ready to go into Lebanon in a big way. Backing out now really does make them look stupid and weak, after a couple of years of fairly deft diplomacy. It now looks like Italy may lead the force - this represents, I suspect, a real weakening of French prestige in Lebanon, including with their former friends the Maronites - the Maronites needed them to be there, and theyre not.

It also gives Olmert an opening for all kinds of quibbling (including the recent raid into Beqaa) and that again creates problems for France in the arab world. I dont think this lets Olmert wriggle off the hook for his mistakes, but in some ways it helps him.
Posted by liberalhawk 2006-08-21 15:25||   2006-08-21 15:25|| Front Page Top

#26 " . . . the Bosniacs sort of remind me of the European version of the Palestinians."

Yeah. They went around destroying centuries-old Orthodox churches and cemeteries as the UN and other "peacekeeping" "forces" stood by and watched.

see here
Posted by ex-lib 2006-08-21 15:30||   2006-08-21 15:30|| Front Page Top

#27 Loved the comments, Barbara. thanks
Posted by ex-lib 2006-08-21 15:31||   2006-08-21 15:31|| Front Page Top

#28 We were living in Germany then, and my Serbian neighbor was very certain that the Europeans would completely cock up the intervention, that only America could fix the situation for them. Equally, a Croatian au pair told us that her parents refused to allow her to come home during the siege and destruction of Split, which Europe watched without intervening. As I recall, the reason Croatia seceded was because Germany made loud noises of support for their traditional allies while everybody was posturing beforehand; had the noises been in the other direction, the split likely would not have happened.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-08-21 16:16||   2006-08-21 16:16|| Front Page Top

#29 We'd like to help, but the reduction of Madison has to come first.
Posted by Task Force Dothan 2006-08-21 17:35||   2006-08-21 17:35|| Front Page Top

#30 Your attention, please. Paging Mel Brooks. The script has been located for "The Producers II: The Sequel"
Posted by Zenster 2006-08-21 22:47||   2006-08-21 22:47|| Front Page Top

23:50 trailing wife
23:45 Zenster
23:16 DMFD
23:13 DMFD
23:02 Jules in the Hinterlands
22:47 FOTSGreg
22:47 Zenster
22:36 Zenster
22:32 Sleresing Hupolunter2709
22:21 Zenster
22:17 Zenster
22:10 djohn66
22:06 Zenster
21:58 Captain America
21:56 Saint Jimbo
21:55 muck4doo
21:54 eLarson
21:54 Captain America
21:52 Zenster
21:51 Saint Jimbo
21:44 eLarson
21:43 tu3031
21:43 Nimble Spemble
21:43 twobyfour









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