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2003-08-20 Iraq
Turkish deployment to Iraq: will have a zone under Turkish command
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Posted by Murat 2003-08-20 3:29:47 AM|| || Front Page|| [11128 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Never trust Americanos and British again. Oh no, the humanity ! While the Turks were bravely struggling to obtain UN permission to depose the brutal dictator of Baghdad, the US and the UK were secretly propping him up. They were even considering to help him kill all Kurds, can you imagine such depraved behavior ?

Posted by Anonymous 2003-8-20 5:27:19 AM||   2003-8-20 5:27:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I would think that the recent blast at the UN would show you just how serious this war is. But it appears your hatred of the US has blinded you.
Posted by Ben  2003-8-20 5:30:23 AM||   2003-8-20 5:30:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 No hatred Ben, but distrust yes.
Posted by Murat 2003-8-20 7:05:04 AM||   2003-8-20 7:05:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 As if the US should trust Turkey. What were your "elite" troops doing in US-controlled territory? Duck hunting?
Posted by Robert Crawford  2003-8-20 7:16:26 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2003-8-20 7:16:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 I'll bet the Russian would help us out in exchange for a nice warm water port.
Posted by Shipman 2003-8-20 7:35:51 AM||   2003-8-20 7:35:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Our troops where allready there before the American troops arrived Robert, we have our own terror groups we fight.

With distrust I wasn't refering to Iraq and our troops there, the distrust i mean is much deeper and much older.
Posted by Murat 2003-8-20 7:46:21 AM||   2003-8-20 7:46:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Yes you can never forgive that American invasion of Turkey back in.... wait a minute... that happened in a parallel universe, sorry.
Posted by Raphael 2003-8-20 8:20:16 AM||   2003-8-20 8:20:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Well if it had been an invasion I could have, but I guess the battle of Kunuri (Korea) don't mean that much to Americans as it means to Turks. Don't watch the enemy Chinese in front, watch the Americans at your back.
Posted by Murat 2003-8-20 8:39:37 AM||   2003-8-20 8:39:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Ok you got me. I don't know anything about the controversy regarding Kunuri. The Turkish Brigade fought valiantly. 5,000 dead. Do you mean the Americans sacrificed the Turkish Brigade? Is that it?
Posted by Raphael 2003-8-20 9:23:17 AM||   2003-8-20 9:23:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 hey go easy on Murat. Dissenters that can actually write complete sentences are hard to come by.

And of course Turkey can't trust us, after all we invaded Iraq without them so they are feeling a little unloved... "Here boys, you control this part, all better now?"
Posted by flash91 2003-8-20 9:36:18 AM||   2003-8-20 9:36:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Yes, the Turkish brigade was under American command acting as the
reserve for the 9th U.S. Corps. While American spy planes detected a massive assault of the Chinese Army they informed the British forces “forgetting” to inform the Turkish forces. In a vague Controversial manner half a day prior to the battle of Kunuri, the Turkish Brigade had received orders to help in the Central Front at Tok-Chon against the Chinese attack and was on route. It then received a second order to head back to the Kunuri area while the British and Americans where on retread as later on became clear.

How convenient to sacrifice others in order to save ones owns ass, but we have learned a precious lesson, never put your army under control of honourable allies. Result of the battle 721 killed, 2147 wounded, 234 POW and 175 MIA. Thanks America, true ally.
Posted by Murat 2003-8-20 9:42:06 AM||   2003-8-20 9:42:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Somebody had to fight the battle, Murat. If the Turks did not intend to fight, why did they go to Korea?

If it had been a Brit or American unit fighting a rearguard action, you wouldn't be whining. The rear guard takes the brunt of the fighting.

Hey, Murat. September 11, 1683.
Posted by Chuck Simmins  2003-8-20 10:08:47 AM|| [http://blog.simmins.org]  2003-8-20 10:08:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Chuck, fighting a battle is OK, shit happens people die, no problem war casualties are acceptable. But being sacrificed by supposed allies to win precious time for their retread is another thing. Having trust in American colleagues on the battlefield is for Turkish generals a hard task since Korea.
Posted by Murat 2003-8-20 10:28:24 AM||   2003-8-20 10:28:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Murat, the sign of a mature people is that they can let the mistakes of the past go. Certainly learn from them, but to hold a grudge shows you are not ready to lead. You should stay inside your own borders.
Posted by rocky 2003-8-20 10:39:15 AM||   2003-8-20 10:39:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 I had a Military Science cadre who fought in Korea with the Cav tell me that the Turks were some kind of tough #$@!@#!!'s. The Chicoms did not like to go up against them.

He told me one time the Chicoms attacked the Turks and got beaten back. While the Chicoms were reorganizing, the Turks went out and cut off a bunch of heads and used them to decorate the pickets holding up the barbed wire........when the Chicoms returned, the sight definitely took the steam out of their attack....

As for the Brits, those guys can be very Maciavellian (sp sorry I need some help there)......I think they STILL have an axe to grind over Gallipoli and they were always pulling that crap. Did it to us a couple of times to boot. Sort of a Titanic mentality, English Officers and Men first, and the REST of you guys later........not that way now thank goodness.
Posted by SOG475  2003-8-20 10:45:42 AM||   2003-8-20 10:45:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 I hear Umm Kasr is nice this time of year.

Just keep them the hell away from the Kurds...
Posted by mojo  2003-8-20 10:53:07 AM||   2003-8-20 10:53:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Mr Murat

I suggest you take a look at your basic Korea's War book and you will learn about Task Force Smith and other American units who fougt rear guard actions (and that means being sacrified in order to save the reaminding of the army). Also look at the history of any war and you will find seome big screwups about some units being forgotten when issuing orders (Napoleon's Marengo campaign had some examples of this) or assigning equipment (cf the Turkish army on the Russian front in WWI)

And forgive me if I don't believe for a second in your explanation: the reason the Turks want to be in Irak and not be commanded by Americans is not Korea but for having free hands with the Kurds.

If you had such long memories you would remùember how despite the centuries fighting for them you were betrayed by the Arabs in WWI and you wouldn't have an islamist government
Posted by Anonymous 2003-8-20 11:11:20 AM||   2003-8-20 11:11:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 I find Murat's historical point very interesting, but very oddly biased. The following is taken from a speech given during a U.S. Consulate General Program Honoring the Korean War Veterans in Turkey in November of 2000.

Ladies and Gentlemen, thank you for coming today to join us in honoring Turkish veterans of the Korean War. There have been and will be similar commemorations like this taking place all over the world. Today we hold our own remembrance and will recall, in particular, the great (but largely unknown) contributions of Turkish soldiers to that international conflict that took place on the other side of the globe fifty years ago.

Much of what I know about the Turkish contribution to that Great Effort comes from my friend, Dr. Mim Kemal Öke, who will be speaking to us later in the program. I didn't realize, for instance, that Turkey was the first country after the United States to send forces to Korea. On November 7, 1950, the famous Turkish Brigade (composed of the 241st Infantry Regiment with three infantry battalions, a motorized artillery battalion with three artillery batteries) joined forces with the U.S. Eighth Army.

Only days after arriving on Korean soil, the Turkish Brigade saw heavy action -- the legendary battle at Kunuri. This is what General Walton Walker, Commander of the U.S. Eighth Army, had to say about it:

Brave Turkish Soldiers! I have come here to thank you on behalf of my army, the American people and myself. I had originally not intended to employ you immediately in the Kunuri region. However, because of the situation brought about by enemy attack, I was forced suddenly to give you a heavy assignment. You devotedly did your duty. Had it not been for your courageous fighting and resistance, my army would have been encircled and forced into very difficult circumstances and perhaps would have been annihilated. I want to extend to you my thanks and appreciation, and I am proud that you are a valuable extension of my army.

Only a couple of months after that, the Turkish Brigade engaged in battle in and around the town of Kumyongjangni. Many of my American military colleagues recall the victory there with great appreciation and indeed reverence for their Turkish comrades-in-arms. For the "Victory of Kumyongjangni", the U.S. Congress awarded the Turkish Brigade the Order of Distinguished Unit Station.

But such tales of heroism and friendship should not surprise us. Turkey and the United States have been, are today and will be in the future the strongest of friends and allies. Examples of mutual devotion between our two great nations is the stuff of legend.

Thank you again for joining us to remember the heroism and bravery of those who participated in what has often been referred to as this century's "forgotten war". Today we will remember so that future generations do not forget.

Well, that sounds like a less emotional, more accurate (if diplomatic) assessment of the matter. That said, Murat is a patriotic Turk much as we are patriotic Americans, guys: give him his due. He is a pretty polite dissenter by Rantburg standards.
Posted by Secret Master  2003-8-20 11:20:39 AM|| [www.budgetwarrior.com]  2003-8-20 11:20:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Yep, what Secret Master sez. Murat, is Turkey a fun, gotta live there place? Can you critisize Islam there?
Posted by Lucky 2003-8-20 12:28:51 PM||   2003-8-20 12:28:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Murat:

Welcome back, buddy, we missed you!

I say that in all seriousness. Secret Master's right: you're an honorable dissenter with a unique point of view that should be given due consideration.
Posted by Mike  2003-8-20 12:54:25 PM||   2003-8-20 12:54:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 While American spy planes detected a massive assault of the Chinese Army they informed the British forces “forgetting” to inform the Turkish forces...

Wonder if there was an ethnic Armenian in the chain o' command?
Posted by Pappy 2003-8-20 1:30:03 PM||   2003-8-20 1:30:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 "you're an honorable dissenter"

This is the same Murat who said we should enjoy ourselves that an Iraqi boy lost his arms and leg after a bomb fell on his home.
Forgive me for not patting Murat on the back. Although I'm glad there is an opposing viewpoint on Rantburg... Murat is still Murat.
Posted by Raphael 2003-8-20 3:30:00 PM||   2003-8-20 3:30:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 they informed the British forces “forgetting” to inform the Turkish forces.

Yeah but Turks weren't the only casualties in that battle. They were the ones who lasted the longest, even fighting after running out of ammo. But there was a total of about 5,000 dead; 721 were Turks... and the rest???
Posted by Raphael 2003-8-20 3:36:32 PM||   2003-8-20 3:36:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 I dunno...Armenians maybe?
Posted by tu3031 2003-8-20 8:16:35 PM||   2003-8-20 8:16:35 PM|| Front Page Top

07:46 raptor
07:41 raptor
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00:14 Raj
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22:41 Stephen
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22:00 Alaska Paul
21:56 Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire
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21:20 john









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