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2005-08-19 Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Hizbullah: Army still unable to defend country
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Posted by Fred 2005-08-19 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 And now you know, boyz and girlz, why I advised Reagan the Israelis should NOT withdraw from Lebanon in the 80's - one of the very few boo-boos of the Reagan years. I STILL LUV YA, RON!
Posted by JosephMendiola 2005-08-19 00:09||   2005-08-19 00:09|| Front Page Top

#2 Maybe the Lebanese need to build a wall or two - somewhere south of Beirut but north of Sidon.
Posted by buwaya 2005-08-19 01:05||   2005-08-19 01:05|| Front Page Top

#3 Just for the uninformed Israel has 135 nuclear weapons and not 400 and 90% are in operable
Posted by Alex 2005-08-19 02:07||   2005-08-19 02:07|| Front Page Top

#4 Source, please, Alex? Thanks!
Posted by trailing wife 2005-08-19 04:54||   2005-08-19 04:54|| Front Page Top

#5 TW
www.fas.org
www.iaea.org
There were presents from the US government! the rocket is a more refined version of the SS-19 / Scud and their smaller ones are based on the tomahawk, however the bomb package comes from the US. Ownership is also doubtable many think they were the only way the US could deploy Nukes in the area if there is a war with Iran and it goes nasty its a good launch site
Posted by Alex 2005-08-19 05:13||   2005-08-19 05:13|| Front Page Top

#6 Ah, come on boys, nuclear weapons are soooo mid 20th century. Why waste a single city when you have the human gnome data and can prevent entire populations from reproducing?
Posted by Shomonter Threater9114 2005-08-19 09:01||   2005-08-19 09:01|| Front Page Top

#7 Alex,

The Dimona reactor is a twin of the French Marcoule G1 reactor built used to produce Plutonium for the French military. Both Dimona and the French program were built at the same time in 1956 when the Israelis and French were allies (remember France, Saddam Hussein, and the Osiraq reactor?).
The campaign against Israeli nukes continues

Dimona is a heavy water moderated natural uranium reactor (no U-235 enrichment needed). The heavy water was bought from the Norwegians with the acquiescence of the British (remember the Israeli, British, and French 1956 invasion of the Suez?).
How the UK Gave Israel the Bomb

Alex, go to the libarary and do some intensive reading. Your antisemitic spittle may be popular in Berlin, but here you will be bitch slapped with facts. You may then appear much less foolish.
Posted by ed 2005-08-19 09:33||   2005-08-19 09:33|| Front Page Top

#8 Should be:
Your anti-American and antisemitic spittle may be popular in Berlin, but here you will be bitch slapped with facts.

PS: The SS-19/Scud and variants (such as NKor NoDongs, Pakistani Gauris, and Iranians Shahabs series) are of Russian design. Alex, how do you feel that your country is within range of Russian-designed Irainian missiles, soon to be topped with Chinese designed, Pakistani proliferated, nuclear waheads controlled by fanatical mullahs who are on a mission from allah to destroy you. Aside from the Jews, no one is more infidel, with as much history againt muslims, as those living in Europe. I almost feel pity for you.

As for "smaller ones are based on the tomahawk", the Tomahawk is not a missile like the SS19, but a flying bomb descended from the German V-1. Isreal has no Tomahawk class weapons (the closest is the Russian SS-N-21, a Tomahawk ripoff). Israel does have the Popeye, a half size cruise missile with a different guidance philosophy (TV guided, not terrain mapping radar). The US liked it enough to buy some from Israel. Finally, it was very nice of the Germans to provide Israel with the with a stealthy lauching platform for the Popeyes, the German built Dolphin-class submarines.
Posted by ed 2005-08-19 10:00||   2005-08-19 10:00|| Front Page Top

#9 From GlobalSecurity:
Popeye Turbo
In May 2000, Israel is reported to have secretly carried out its first test launches from two German-built Dolphin-class submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. The missiles launched from vessels off Sri Lanka in the Indian Ocean are said to have hit a target at a range of about 1,500 kilometers [about 930 statute miles]. Israel is reported to possess a 200kg nuclear warhead, containing 6kg of plutonium, that could be mounted on cruise missiles.
Israel has reportedly developed an air-launched cruise missile that could be operational by 2002, called the Popeye Turbo. The Popeye Turbo, with a range that is variously reported at between 200 km and 350 km, would appear to represent a turbo-jet powered cruise missile that may incorporate avionics and other components developed for the Popeye family of missiles. The AGM-142 HAVE NAP is a variant of the Israeli Air Force "Popeye" missile, which uses a solid propellant rocket motor. The Popeye II, also known as the Have Lite, is a smaller missile with more advanced technology. Designed for deployment on fighter aircraft, Popeye II has a range of 150 kilometers.

The Popeye Turbo missile is probably similar to if not identical with the Israeli submarine-launced cruise missile carried on the Dolphin-class submarines. The baseline Popeye missile with a range of 45 miles has a diameter of 21 inches, and is nearly 16 feet long. For comparison, the American MK-48 heavy torpedo is 21 inches in diameter, and 19 feet long, while the BGM-109 Tomahawk SLCM is 20.4 inches in diameter and 20.5 feet long [including the booster motor], and the Russian SS-N-21 SLCM is similar in configuration and dimensions to the American Tomahawk.
The reported range of 1,500 km for the SLCM tested in May 2000 is several times greater than the previously reported range for the Popeye Turbo. However, the Popeye Turbo is a poorly attested missile, and the open literature provides little information on this system. Indeed, because of the small size of the vehicle and the limited testing program to date, it is entirely possible that even the US intelligence community has only limited insight into the capabilities of this system. There is no particular reason to doubt that Israel could develop a variant of the Popeye Turbo with a range of 1,500 km, simply by lengthening the fuel tank associated with a 300-350 km variant reported by US intelligence. At present it is not possible to determine whether the US intelligence has under-estimated the range of this missile, or whether news reports have over-estimated the missile's range. The longer range reported in June 2000 is certainly consistent with Israeli targetting requirements.
Posted by Steve">Steve  2005-08-19 10:20||   2005-08-19 10:20|| Front Page Top

#10 "The MP reiterated "the Lebanese Army is not capable of defending the nation considering that it lacks the proper weapons and technologies."

But, the U.S does! Watch your back. Actually, you'll know its coming, you just won't be able to do anything about it.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-19 10:45||   2005-08-19 10:45|| Front Page Top

#11 "Hizbullah will not hand in its weapons as long as Israel possesses 400 nuclear missiles,"

How about a compromise: Isreal could reduce its missile count by putting a few in So Lebanon, and then you can disarm.
Posted by DoDo 2005-08-19 12:11||   2005-08-19 12:11|| Front Page Top

#12 Ed

For starters you can apologise for calling me antisemitic and anti american, I am british for starters, I have served three tours of Iraq, two in Afghanistan and most of the rest of the world so save me, I was passing on what I had read elsewhere, I also never said the tomahawk was like the ss 19 I thankyou for the corrections that is why information is passed about here to get the right story
Posted by Alex 2005-08-19 12:23||   2005-08-19 12:23|| Front Page Top

#13 5 Tours in the GWOT. Good on 'ya. 6 months tours?
Posted by Shipman 2005-08-19 12:25||   2005-08-19 12:25|| Front Page Top

#14 yep
Posted by Alex 2005-08-19 12:29||   2005-08-19 12:29|| Front Page Top

#15 remember folks, even non-trolls make factual mistakes.
Posted by liberalhawk 2005-08-19 12:35||   2005-08-19 12:35|| Front Page Top

#16 Thanks for the work Alex, US firefighters appreciate it.
Posted by Rightwing 2005-08-19 12:35||   2005-08-19 12:35|| Front Page Top

#17 Most of our trolls are antisemitic as well as anti-American -- the two go together. One mark is the sites they quote. And some of our regulars react a bit quickly, not wanting to go through the same fight yet again. ;-) It was the site reference that caught you up, Alex.

However, the Israelis are some of the best, most advanced technicians in the world. So it isn't believable that any of their weaponry would go unmaintained long enough to become even marginal, let alone inoperable. Which was why I questioned you, Alex. Thanks for anwering so honestly. I look forward to reading more about where you've been and what you've seen during your adventures -- are you still out there somewhere, or have you rotated back home?
Posted by trailing wife 2005-08-19 13:28||   2005-08-19 13:28|| Front Page Top

#18 Alex,

You said that Israeli nukes are from the US (however the bomb package comes from the US). I showed you where plutonium was made with a French reactor moderated by British heavy water. I don't see any US involvement. As for Israel not being able to design their own nukes, that's a fantasy. Half the Manhattan Projects scientists were Jews kicked out of Nazi Europe. Don't you think a few made their way to Israel?

So, accusing the US of supplying Israel with nuclear weapons, when it was in actuality French and British complicity, is anti-American. Implying without proof the Israelis can't design their own warheads is anti-semitic, especially when Israelis design some of the world's most sought after high tech weapons.

So their will be no apologies, unless it is you who wants to apologize for such casual anti-American and anti-semitism. My error was mistaking you for a continental because of the popularity of kooky conspiracy theories surrounding Israel.

Personally, after meeting/working with a few Israelis, I find them to be quite smart and competent in their fields, though they can be a bit forward for this Southern boy, and I must watch myself not to push back too hard.
Posted by ed 2005-08-19 13:29||   2005-08-19 13:29|| Front Page Top

#19 One last thing Alex. I do salute your service to the UK, especially since you have done tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. My respects to you.
Posted by ed 2005-08-19 13:38||   2005-08-19 13:38|| Front Page Top

#20 Ed
Something is only Anti if thats the way you want to see it, but no probs.
The info about the US is from www.fas.org and the iaea apparently when the iaea did some tests a few years back you can trace where the nuclear material comes from. The report says that it came from the US, we only have the info that is given so thats what i went off if its not right thats what i want to find out. So no hard feelings
Posted by Alex 2005-08-19 15:13||   2005-08-19 15:13|| Front Page Top

#21 Alex,

You got to do better research. Israel's close relationship with the U.S., is recent. The British and French has had close relations with Israel for decades. Times have changed about 30 years ago.

The French provided the original nuclear weapons to Israel. Also, Israel was flying Mirage Jets until they replaced it with F-16's. Israel did not have many American weaponary until Israel and Egypt signed a peace treaty. The U.S. brokered peace treaty ensured that Egypt get about $2 billion in military aid every year and Israel get about $10 billion worth of aid. After, the peace treaty, Israel had no choice but to better friends with the U.S and now Anti-Semitism is rampant in the U.K. and France. Also, it was the French Jews that created nuclear technology in France.

Geo-political strategy doesn't necessarily involve life-long friends. Friends come and go depending on situations. Use your personal life as an example. Do you have the same friends that you did in the 5th grade/standard? One more thing, please stop doing research on iaea.com. You do know that they're an Anti-American/Semite.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-19 15:50||   2005-08-19 15:50|| Front Page Top

#22 Poison Reverse

France was for a long time Israel's main purveyor of weapons (at least for planes). The 1956 war was won thanks to a much needed infusion of French tanks and planes. Shortly before the Six Days War De Gaulle embargoed sales of weapons to Israel. But during the Six Days War the IAF was still mainly equiped with Mirages and the older Mysteres. After that the USA replaced France and by Yom Kippour the IAF had a substantial number of F4 Phantoms flying ground-attack missions while the Mirages provided fighter cover (the Mirages could carry a much lower payload ans thus were nopt effective for ground attack). By the time of Peace on Galilea the IAF was no longer flying french.

For the nuclear weapons Israel certainly had the scientific capabilities to produce them. I don't know if it needed help for the equipment but hey, there were a number of Jews in the Manhattan project.
Posted by JFM">JFM  2005-08-19 16:54||   2005-08-19 16:54|| Front Page Top

#23 JFM,

Correct me if I am wrong but, I believe you are agreeing with me. Well, I did forget to mention F4 Phantoms. Details. Details.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-19 17:55||   2005-08-19 17:55|| Front Page Top

#24 To bomb or be bombed, that is the question
Posted by Captain America 2005-08-19 22:01||   2005-08-19 22:01|| Front Page Top

#25 Being wrong happens to us all. The fallout can vary, though. (pun intended).

Antisemitic propaganda may be just another day at the office or a cause of high blodd pressure, depending on your point of view.

When it comes to the Israeli nuclear deterrent capabilities, the moral and political issues fade to insignificance compared to the potential consequences of an analysis disassociated from reality.

A few points:

- The Israeli WMD are rooted in recent history. The holocaust and a few recent wars with similar objectives have led to the formal declaration that the Joooos will never again go meekly to the slaughter. They are very, very serious about this. It may be wise to take this statement at face value.

- The Israeli nuclear programme, albeit "unofficial" is old, huge and on a completely different level of sophistication than recent contenders. Whether the number of operable warheads are n*100 is not the issue. A significant number are thermonuclear, developed in parallell with the F-4 purchases (which otherwise makes no sense), to acheive credible deterrent against the bloody Soviet Union in the early 70:s!

- They have plenty of carriers for the local area of local manufacture. MRBM:s like the Jericho series serve the purpose far better than Tomahawks, thank you very much.

- This capability was, is and will be - (sit back, relax, forget about the Bush-bashing, and just think about it for awhile) - contrary to US security interests. Some would say that this makes it highly unlikely that Bushitler among his other evil schemes managed to set this up in the late sixties. The crass and cold truth of it is that we'd much rather decide for ourselves whether the shit hits the fan or not. It was close in ´73...

Last but not least: These guys are determined not to be eradicated according to prevalent plans among some arabs and most europeans. There was a reason why the ´91 Scuds didn't carry warheads, let alone chemical ones (at that time, present controversy aside, available to Saddam).

We managed the deal: no warheads-no response, but any trace of poison gas would have triggered a - how shall I put it - determined response, never mind the diplomatic repercussions. Them Joooos have some strange allergy or whaterer in that respect.

I'm happy that didn't happen. YMMV, but I think you'd come around to my viewpoint if you'd give it a moments thought.

The scary thing is Irans stance. Not because they are wrong, but because they are right, just like Mao Tse Tung in the good old days. But we seem to be lacking a Stalin to rein in the enthusiasts in this case... (Google if you don't know the story, I'm going to bed).

But the novel theme of: "The joooos don't have that many nukes, and they're mostly rusty and won't work" seems to be a part of the Iranian scenario, and a very, very scary one at that IMNHO.

Real scary.
Posted by Phlashman 2005-08-20 00:12||   2005-08-20 00:12|| Front Page Top

00:12 Phlashman
00:02 AJackson
23:56 Sobiesky
23:45 SR-71
23:25 Jackal
23:24 Stephen
23:19 Alaska Paul
23:14 trailing wife
23:10 trailing wife
23:09 Sobiesky
23:03 CrazyFool
23:02 JosephMendiola
22:57 BA
22:55 Mike Kozlowski
22:53 JosephMendiola
22:49 Frank G
22:39 Anonymoose
22:31 Frank G
22:17 Anonymoose
22:14 True German Ally
22:07 JosephMendiola
22:01 Captain America
22:01 Raj
21:56 Captain America









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