Article

2005-08-15 China-Japan-Koreas

War Is Not Far from Us and Is the Midwife of the Chinese Century

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Posted by john 2005-08-15 16:16|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Unsurprisingly, this article is blocked by the Great Firewall of China.

Posted by gromky">gromky 2005-08-15 17:07|| http://communistposters.com/]">[http://communistposters.com/] 2005-08-15 17:07|| Front Page Top

#2 gromky: Unsurprisingly, this article is blocked by the Great Firewall of China.

No surprises here. Epoch Times is available in Chinese - the whole website is probably blocked. If you're interested, I've posted this article in its entireity on my blog.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-08-15 17:36|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-08-15 17:36|| Front Page Top

#3 How about a link to your blog?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-08-15 17:48|| 2005-08-15 17:48|| Front Page Top

#4 MD: How about a link to your blog?

Here goes

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-08-15 17:51|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-08-15 17:51|| Front Page Top

#5 Therefore, our military battle preparation appears to aim at Taiwan, but in fact is aimed at the United States, and the preparation is far beyond the scope of attacking aircraft carriers or satellites.

Posted by Matt 2005-08-15 17:58|| 2005-08-15 17:58|| Front Page Top

#6 I have read that Epoch Times is a Falungong publication. (FYI, the Falungong is bitterly opposed to the Communist Party because of the Party's relentless persecution). Is this speech Falungong propaganda? Good question...

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-08-15 18:16|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-08-15 18:16|| Front Page Top

#7 Zhang is right about the FalunGong connection. Needs a large block of salt.

Posted by phil_b 2005-08-15 18:21|| 2005-08-15 18:21|| Front Page Top

#8 Unsurprisingly, blogspot.com is blocked, too :)

However, enabling my proxy in the US lets me view it. It's weird, some sites are blocked totally...and some are blocked but viewable by proxy. When I try to view a totally blocked site (BBC), the Great Firewall terminates all connections and doesn't let you reconnect for 5 minutes or so. I'll have an ssh session to the same box my proxy is on, and that gets reset. Annoying.

Posted by gromky">gromky 2005-08-15 19:24|| http://communistposters.com/]">[http://communistposters.com/] 2005-08-15 19:24|| Front Page Top

#9 Thanks

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-08-15 19:49|| 2005-08-15 19:49|| Front Page Top

#10 After reading this, it's obvious that it's a forgery. China comparing itself favorably to the Nazis? Come on...evidently this is a smear by the F-G.

Posted by gromky">gromky 2005-08-15 20:33|| http://communistposters.com/]">[http://communistposters.com/] 2005-08-15 20:33|| Front Page Top

#11 First I think this is garbage. The Chinese occasionally allow a general or politician to rant in order to get a scare out with deniability.

Second, the timing couldn't be better, assuming they hadn't announced such a thing in a speech. Who would we naturally blame for a bio attack right now? Islam anyone? Who is a matter of congecture but a badly damaged US would certainly start smashing heads together and China, if done properly, could avoid the blame and perhaps even come out as a good guy if the US went overboard in our anger.

That of course is the kind of thing we'd nuke Bejing over though, so its unlikely to be found in a speech.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-08-15 21:19|| 2005-08-15 21:19|| Front Page Top

#12 I don't know if it is fake or not but they should know about MAD (mutually assured destruction) it is still our policy for nuclear attack I think.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2005-08-15 22:30|| 2005-08-15 22:30|| Front Page Top

#13 gromky: After reading this, it's obvious that it's a forgery. China comparing itself favorably to the Nazis? Come on...evidently this is a smear by the F-G.

The Chinese admire Germany. They don't view the Holocaust as a unique event - which, of course, it isn't - there are entire ethnic groups that have been wiped out in one fashion or another - who today knows of a single living Amalekite, Hittite or Sogdian?* Gromky is proceeding from the assumption that the Chinese weltanschaaung (concept of the world) is pretty much like the Western view of the world. It is not. The Chinese do not view the history of the world as the history of progress - they see it as essentially being cyclical. There are technological improvements, but each nation state is essentially amoral and primarily concerned with its welfare and continued survival - if necessary, at the expense of its rival states. Chinese, including Hong Kong Chinese, view the Holocaust as just another massacre in the long history of such things. What makes the Chinese angry about the Nanjing massacre is not that it was unique - Chinese have perpetrated large-scale massacres on others in the past - it is that the Japanese had the temerity to do it to the Chinese.

Again - the Chinese admire the Nazis not because they worship evil and think the Nazis are a shining example of evil - they admire them because they think the Nazis achieved a lot militarily in a short period of time, against significant odds, and did what they had to do to wipe out the opposition, much like the ancient sovereigns of just about every state in the world. The Chinese view is a lot like that of Thucydides - the strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must.

* Hitler wasn't unique in wiping out what he viewed as his mortal enemies - the Japanese shogun tortured to death every last Christian on Japanese soil centuries ago and Chinese mobs slaughtered tens of thousands of Chinese Christians during the Boxer Rebellion. In the past massacres have been carried out for one primary reason - to guard against the possibility of revolt from a given quarter. Targeted massacres don't end all threats, but they do end specific ones. After all the ancient Amalekites were slaughtered, the nation of Israel no longer had to deal any threat from that quarter. After the Kingdom of Zhao was killed off to the last man, woman and child, the first ruler of a unified China (Qin Kingdom) no longer had to deal any threats from that direction.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-08-15 22:38|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-08-15 22:38|| Front Page Top

#14 ZF: Chinese, including Hong Kong Chinese, view the Holocaust as just another massacre in the long history of such things.

This is a reference to a situation where a clothing chain in Hong Kong used Nazi imagery in its interior decor and on its clothing, provoking a horrified response from Westerners, but zero objections from Hongkongers. Hongkongers were unperturbed, because they viewed the Holocaust as just another in a long line of such events.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-08-15 22:44|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-08-15 22:44|| Front Page Top

#15 In another forum, a commenter says the following about the Chinese admiration for things German:

I would like to mention intense admiration for Hitler and the Nazis among Chinese youth (in the forums). There is even a term for them: Ha(1) De(2) Pai(4), or "Those who worship/admire Germany/German things"

And those Chinese who admire Japan, and there are some of them, they are called Ha(1) Ri(4) Pai(4), or "Those who worship/admire Japan/Japanese things"

But the German-worshipper are far more popular than the Japan-worshippers, for obvious reasons. And in general, youths who are nationalist toward China also tend to admire German militarism, and the military expansion/rearmament of the 1930s defying the Versailles Treaty, etc. The fact that Nazis are ideologically opposed to communism doesn't seem to bother them much.... A fact that I find very comical.

For example, someone posted a description of how a single German machinegunner killed nearly 2000 Americans during D-Day, and was decorated with the Iron (or Knight) Cross. Of course, most of the posts on Chinese forums are of very dubious origin, since the posters never ever give the source of their info. A lot of things are just rumors or fabrications too eagerly taken for real by people too eager to believe them. And based on what I read of D-Day, I think this machinegunner story is made up too, since 2000 is close to the total American death figure at Omaha on D-Day, and can't be dealt by a single German.

Anyway, the post was greeted with much positive response of how Americans deserved to die, and how heroic the Germans are, and even some "Heil Hitler". Hitler is sometimes not called by his Chinese transliteration "Xi(1) Te(4) Le(4)", but lovingly referred to as "The Fuhrer"( Yuan(2) Shou(3)) A few mentioned that if the Germany and Axis won the war, it would have meant the destruction of China, but those voices of reason were drowned out..... *sigh*

I do not want to give a misleading picture that nationalist Chinese youth are rampant Neo-Nazis. It's not quite so. They just happen to admire the German militarism, and Hitler's misguiding bravado. As for real Nazi politics, I think they are mostly ignorant of it.

I can dig up the link to that post if any of you want to see it.

I disagree with this commentator that the Chinese admirers of Nazi Germany don't know about the Holocaust. These facts are in the public domain. They know about it but feel that one massacre in a long roster of massacres cannot merit but a shrug. Who today remembers the 70,000-strong Yunnanese Muslim ruling class massacred by the Chinese over 100 years ago?

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-08-15 23:17|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-08-15 23:17|| Front Page Top

#16 Note that the above commenter is quoting (and translating) from Chinese language forums. You can also get the flavor of some of these postings in English by checking out the New York Times's online forums on China. These are not China's lower classes - they are its elite.

Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei 2005-08-15 23:42|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2005-08-15 23:42|| Front Page Top

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