Article

2004-08-15 Iraq-Jordan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by TS(vice girl) 2004-08-15 6:33:22 PM|| || Front Page|| [11129 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Attack it...

Posted by Destro 2004-08-15 6:41:27 PM|| 2004-08-15 6:41:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Film 'em.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-08-15 6:43:17 PM|| 2004-08-15 6:43:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 foreigners, huh? Stinking Esquimeaux!

sounds like the case is being made that it will have to "liberated" from 'foreign hands...Heeeellllloooo Black Hats! PR disaster is on the horizon

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-15 7:02:57 PM|| 2004-08-15 7:02:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 PC sez leave 'em alone. Violence is part of their "cultural heritage".

Posted by borgboy 2004-08-15 7:17:04 PM|| 2004-08-15 7:17:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Y'gotta keep in mind that if they blow up their own holy mosque it's our fault. They're obviously not responsible for their own actions, being Mooselimbs and all...

Posted by Fred 2004-08-15 7:26:02 PM|| 2004-08-15 7:26:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I can deal with the guilt...

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-15 7:33:48 PM|| 2004-08-15 7:33:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 "We got rid of Saddam [Hussein] only to have him replaced by something worse than him."

Ummmm ... no. America got rid of Saddam Hussein, not you, Sadr. The only reason that the Coalition forces seem worse for your ilk is because we aren't letting you shit all over fellow Iraqis with the theocratic bullshit you and your thugs spew.

This latest development leaves me feeling torn. It is almost certain that the shrine is going to be destroyed by what is most likely Iranian controlled agents occupying this site. Once the shrine is demolished, it will form the core of yet another eternally festering carbuncle of anti-Americanism in Iran. Nevermind that Iran is responsible for the destruction.

From the onset, it would have almost been better for US forces to have blown the shrine to hell as a solid demonstration of our resolve to eliminate all insurgents and the mosques they hide in. This would have been a much stronger message for the Iranians than all this dalliance and eventually being (falsely) dragged into complicity anyway.

PLAN A: Use side scanning radar to detect any tunnels leading into the shrine and block them off. Sit back and starve out the occupiers.

PLAN B: Use sleep gas to render the insurgents unconscious or displace all of the building's breathable air by flooding it with a cryogenic tanker truckload of CO2 and suffocate these turds where they sit, sleep or stand.

PLAN C: Blow the mosque to hell and wash our hands of these twisted idiots.

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-15 8:23:05 PM|| 2004-08-15 8:23:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Plan D: Blow it up and tell the Muslim world that the Shi'ites are a heretic sect that doesn't believe in the prophet anyway...
Isn't that what Gentle said?

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-15 8:30:40 PM|| 2004-08-15 8:30:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Do nothing that makes these aholes look like martyrs. Get some of that Russian knock out gass like Zenster says. Take them out back and hand them over to their fellow muslims and let them deal with them in the street for all to see. The locals are very fed up with these assholes.

Posted by Flamebait93268 2004-08-15 8:32:06 PM|| 2004-08-15 8:32:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Just spike the water supply.

They'll either go under or dehydrate to unconciousness within 3 days in that 130 degree heat.

Posted by Oldspook 2004-08-15 8:36:07 PM|| 2004-08-15 8:36:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 water supply? I assume that was disabled at the start

Posted by Frank G 2004-08-15 9:00:40 PM|| 2004-08-15 9:00:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Old Spook, the only problem with spiking their water supply is once the insurgents realize that they are falling into enemy hands, they will have lost any reason not to blow up the shrine. This is why I have routinely advocated the sleep gas or suffocation via atmospheric displacement.

I'm confident that they've laid in sufficient stocks to last for a while. That's why a quick and decisive intervention is necessary. What other ways do you see of resolving this without damaging the shrine? As mentioned above, these rotters will blown up the shrine just so the remaining Arab world will forever blame America for it, right or wrong. Nothing has ever prevented the Arabs from assuming or believing the most hideous of lies (al Qaeda is a Zionist plot et al), so I see few options here.

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-15 9:13:30 PM|| 2004-08-15 9:13:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Pour more Iraqi troops in,back Marines off,and let the Iraqi Interior Ministry issue an ultimatum:Get out,or die.

Posted by crazyhorse 2004-08-15 9:14:28 PM|| 2004-08-15 9:14:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Ah, the Religion of Peace strikes again!

Seems to me someone on Rantburg - probably more than one person, actually - called this development a long time ago, hardly surprising though it is. Bring on the gas.

Posted by The Doctor 2004-08-15 9:27:24 PM|| 2004-08-15 9:27:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 One thing to think about: What kind of mindset do the occupants have. Are they really devout Shi'ites ready for martyrdom? There's a Catch 22: If they are, would they really blow up the "holiest place" of the Shia? I mean, what would Allah think if they appeared before him saying: You see, we had to blow up the sanctuary to make the kuffar look bad, now where are the virgins? Hmmmm.

Maybe it's just a big bluff.

The "believers" will probably believe the biggest nonsense, but what about Allah?

And what does the average "Shi'ite in the street" think about those menaces to blow up their holy shrine?

And what game is Iran playing. Do they really want a general Shi'ite uprising at this point which could easily be blamed on them and give George Bush a very good reason to settle the "Iranian problem" before the elections? I think Iran is walking on very very thin ice here, and that's not a good thing to do with 130Â° C outside.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-08-15 9:43:38 PM|| 2004-08-15 9:43:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 No additional deals, cease fires and allowing the Shi'ite terrorist enemy to re-group & re-arm.

This is the final push to remove Sadr and his Iranian infiltrated, paid killers.

The fanatical Islamic enemy longs to meet their Allah, the mythical 72 awaiting virgins, plus the rivers of honey & blueberry pancakes, well, get ready boys, it's a long way down!

Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-08-15 10:37:47 PM|| 2004-08-15 10:37:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 We MUST document carefully and in detail EVERYTHING in and around that Mosquq.

And be sure to beam it out in near real time - over the TV in Iraq, and unencrypted over satellite tothe region (Lots of sat dishes in Iran), and be sure to DAILY write up the truth, put lots and lots of photes, and distribute it to each and every regiona nd town in Iraw.

We have the capacity to do this - we really need to get on the propaganda part of this war and get in ahead of the curve.

The society there is only partially literate - so pictures will speak very loudly - and we need to get the true images out there NOW. Show these jerks arming the explosives in the shrine, etc.

Posted by Oldspook 2004-08-15 10:57:26 PM|| 2004-08-15 10:57:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Agreed, it must be a photo finish so even the French & Germans will buy it.

Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-08-15 11:08:26 PM|| 2004-08-15 11:08:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Old Spook: Sounds like Tom Clancy's "The Bear And The Dragon" where he's got the CIA rebroacasting Global Hawk video of the battlefield over the web. Sure we've got the capability. Why aren't we using it?

Posted by Classical_Liberal 2004-08-16 12:16:18 AM|| 2004-08-16 12:16:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 While I do not pretend to be an expert on Islamist thinking, there are some pretty obvious components to it. Victory at any cost, even pyric victory, is usually seen as being better than the least loss of face.

Infidels entering the Imam Ali shrine represent a defilement and therefore adequate reason to demolish it rather than letting it fall into enemy hands.

It is almost certain that destruction of the shrine would inevitably be blamed upon the Coalition forces regardless of actual fact. This is a huge motivation for those who have rigged it with explosives.

Why mine the mosque if there is no intention of blowing it up in the first place? An accidental detonation is a very real hazard in this case. Fanatics such as these could easily regard protecting the shrine from the least sort of defilement as their duty to Allah. Somehow managing to foist the blame upon America would merely be icing on the cake.

Consider the significant schism betweek Iran's Qum sect of Shias and those in Iraq. The insurgents recruited by Iran may quite easily be (if not intentionally so) from the Qum faction and therefore have significantly lessened attachment to the Iraqi shi'ites themselves.

None of this fully takes into account the incandescent hatred Iran has for America. Even the Imam Ali shrine's continued existence may well pale in comparison to blackening America's eye in whatever way can be achieved.

Iran's consistent and extensive meddling in Iraq all points towards a determined effort to interfere with any and all progress towards installing a democracy. Demolishing the shrine and somehow attaching blame to the Coalition may well represent a last ditch effort to polarize Iraq's Shi'ite population against any democratic influence.

Iran's anti-American agenda literally knows no bounds. Neither international soil, loss of civilian life at home or abroad nor regional borders matter one whit to Tehran's mullahs. So long as their progress towards regional domination continues, little if anything will deter them. Their blind pursuit of nuclear weapons, even at the risk of military attack or sanctions, should serve as adequate proof of this.

A puny mosque, no matter how revered it may be, is of little consequence by comparison.

Posted by Zenster 2004-08-16 1:15:55 AM|| 2004-08-16 1:15:55 AM|| Front Page Top

12:33 Halfass Pete
12:25 Halfass Pete
12:03 Halfass Pete
08:16 JFM
08:16 JFM
22:11 Anonymous6587
14:16 Zhang Fei
07:45 MacNails
07:07 Mike Sylwester
03:40 gromky
02:21 Zenster
01:48 Rafael
01:18 Zhang Fei
01:15 Zenster
00:44 gromky
00:17 Bomb-a-rama
00:16 Classical_Liberal
00:14 Bomb-a-rama
00:09 Bomb-a-rama
00:08 Anonymoose
00:03 Frank G
00:00 Frank G
23:59 Frank G
23:55 Robert Stevens