Article

2008-08-08 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Russia And Georgia 'At War', Over 1000 Dead

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Posted by Anonymoose 2008-08-08 13:54|| || Front Page|| [11131 views ] Top

#1 Trust no one for a while regarding happenings in Georgia. Something is happening, but it won't be possible to know exactly what; information that gets out will be slanted every which way. If it doesn't make sense, you probably don't know the whole story.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2008-08-08 14:08|| 2008-08-08 14:08|| Front Page Top

#2 I think I'm counting on the ~~Sovs~~ Russians to throw their weight around in the Caucasus. It's a hegemony thing.

Posted by Fred 2008-08-08 14:13|| 2008-08-08 14:13|| Front Page Top

#3 Oh, bollocks. The only way you could kill a thousand civilians with a 24,000-man army in a single night would be if you shelled & then machine-gunned a large-scale open-field demonstration, and even then I suspect you wouldn't see so many fatalities. Especially not in a province with less than a hundred thousand inhabitants.

The only way a thousand people die in a day is if the 58th Army decides to play Kitchner's-New-Army-at-the-Somme against a dug-in Georgian force in favorable terrain.

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2008-08-08 14:20|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2008-08-08 14:20|| Front Page Top

#4 Up next: Ossetian media puppets earnestly report Georgian troops tossing Russian babies on bayonet-point in Tskhinvali.

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2008-08-08 14:21|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2008-08-08 14:21|| Front Page Top

#5 What a stupid decision of the Europe to trade Kosovo for Georgia. Europe's armchair strategists have a very big mouth but not the military guts to support their actions.The Russians have the guts and outsmarted the West on this one. More important is that when Georgia will become Russian again the Europeans have to bend over as most of their energy supplies will be controlled by Russia. Well done European bureaucrats.

Posted by Woodrow Elmusoger4367 2008-08-08 14:34|| 2008-08-08 14:34|| Front Page Top

#6 Tips for Georgia-

Step one: Drive out anyone with Russian citizenship in Ossetia.
Step two: Make as big a stink as possible so you can make "Concessions" and end up with more than you started with.
Step three: Hamstring on the deal and jump their claim as soon as they stand down.

Posted by Bertie Grise4247 2008-08-08 14:54|| 2008-08-08 14:54|| Front Page Top

#7 U.S. Trainers Not Involved In Georgia Conflict: Military

"We have upwards of 100 military trainers who are in Georgia now. We've been able to account for all of them," he told AFP.

He said the U.S. European Command's plans and operations center has been monitoring the situation in South Ossetia, the flashpoint for the conflict between Russian and Georgian militaries.

Posted by 3dc 2008-08-08 14:56|| 2008-08-08 14:56|| Front Page Top

#8 Slate had a correspondent come through last spring. Note that a thousand people died during eighteen months of a war which South Ossetians hysterically characterize as "genocide". Also note that a significant fraction of the South Ossetian population is directly employed by Moscow as either soldiers, police, spies, or bureaucrats.

I'm willing to bet that a significant fraction of the population not employed by the Russian government was working for that counterfeiting operation which was exposed in 2006.

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2008-08-08 14:57|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2008-08-08 14:57|| Front Page Top

#9 2000 troops in iraq should be flown home, reequipped.......for the threat as it is.

Posted by Spiny Gl 2511 2008-08-08 15:33|| 2008-08-08 15:33|| Front Page Top

#10 Statements of: Bush, McCain, Obama

Posted by 3dc 2008-08-08 15:39|| 2008-08-08 15:39|| Front Page Top

#11 Georgia's pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili said the two countries were at war.

Teased the bear once too often, Mikheil?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-08-08 15:56|| 2008-08-08 15:56|| Front Page Top

#12 Obama:
"I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict," Obama said in a statement. "Now is the time for ~~me and my children to go to Hawaii~~ Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full-scale war. Georgia's territorial integrity must be respected." Continuing he added, "The caucasians are obviously at fault, and the second burning of Atlanta should not be allowed. Some folks haven't been reading their demographic reports and this attack is obviously genocide."

Seriously, wtf did he just say?

Posted by swksvolFF 2008-08-08 16:16|| 2008-08-08 16:16|| Front Page Top

#13 Memo to Barack. Georgia is not one of the 57 states you've visited. It's someplace else.
Just trying to help.

Posted by tu3031 2008-08-08 16:18|| 2008-08-08 16:18|| Front Page Top

#14 More like the Bear countering US BMD and influence in what used to be their stomping ground.

Posted by lotp 2008-08-08 16:18|| 2008-08-08 16:18|| Front Page Top

#15 Telegraph
"It's not South Ossetia we are at war with, it's Russia," the company's commander said, shaking his head at the magnitude of his statement.

From Vladikavkaz, the capital of adjoining North Ossetia, which lies in Russia, phalanxes of Russian tanks and armoured personnel carriers rumbled towards Tskhinvali to provide ground support.

Deeply angry with Georgia's pro-western policies since the Rose Revolution of 2003, Moscow's fury has grown as its neighbour made a concerted push towards Nato membership. This was an explosive message of intent that Georgia, long decried in Moscow as a terrorist state, would be punished - even flattened if need be.

As the Russian soldiers advanced, the gunfire and shelling in Tskhinvali once again intensified and it became apparent that the Georgians were in retreat.

Posted by 3dc 2008-08-08 16:22|| 2008-08-08 16:22|| Front Page Top

#16 Crap. Sounds like the Georgian military actually thought that the Russians wouldn't respond to the conquest of the province. What the hell are they smoking up there?

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2008-08-08 16:38|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2008-08-08 16:38|| Front Page Top

#17 Sad for Russia when you think about it. This tiny little country isn't just surrendering but seems willing to fight for their independence.

I imagine every nation surrounding Russia (and within Russia) is watching closely. Sad for Georgia because that means Russia cannot back down.

Good thing we have a Soviet/Russian expert as our Secretary of State. Get over their Condi and pull the two dogs apart.

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-08-08 16:39|| 2008-08-08 16:39|| Front Page Top

#18 Is Georgia a member of the EU?
On TV, the President was flanked by the Georgian and Euro flags.

Posted by john frum 2008-08-08 17:01|| 2008-08-08 17:01|| Front Page Top

#19 The Pipeline

Posted by 3dc 2008-08-08 17:53|| 2008-08-08 17:53|| Front Page Top

#20 Anyone want to comment on the usefulness of air superiority and stealth? The US is way too used to owning the air so some think that there is no use for the F-22. Fools.

Right now the Georgians would sell their second child for those capabilities.

Posted by tipover 2008-08-08 17:58|| 2008-08-08 17:58|| Front Page Top

#21 Actually, for the Georgians, a few Patriot batteries would suffice.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-08 18:36|| 2008-08-08 18:36|| Front Page Top

#22 re: john frum #18
I saw that too and was puzzled ... they keep showing it a lot on Russian tv1.
I do know they are not a full member of NATO but do have certain ties to them ...
any nfo on that I'd appreciate

Posted by linker 2008-08-08 20:21|| 2008-08-08 20:21|| Front Page Top

#23 I've been posting on this much of the day.

We just completed a regional military exercise in Georgia. It is likely that the Georgians felt that their military was as ready as possible.

"Provocations" have been increasing recently, all on the part of the rebels. Think Mexico giving all the Apaches Mexican citizenship and then declaring that they are intervening to protect the Apaches since they are now "Mexicans".

Georgia has light infantry and light mech. Most of its army is US trained and has experienced combat in Iraq. It is unclear how well they perform in anti-armor role but terrain generally is poor for armor. Anti-air is also a question.

The 58th Russian Army is the same group that has leveled Chechnya. Don't expect finesse or respect for civilians from these guys.

Russia is pulling the same stunt in Moldova, also a US ally, and in the Baltics. The Putin oligarchs intend to ensure that these tiny nations are returned to the Russian sphere of influence, and their excuse will be the "travails" of Russians in those nations.

Posted by Chuck Simmins">Chuck Simmins 2008-08-08 20:22|| http://northshorejournal.org]">[http://northshorejournal.org] 2008-08-08 20:22|| Front Page Top

#24 I doubt Moscow cares about the Muslims in South Ossetia - what Moscow does care about is the Radical Islamist "surges" occuring all along its southern borders and any Islamist intentions/ambitions towards a NEW DESTABILIZATION AND BREAKUP OF POST-USSR RUSSIA. Lest we fergit, VLADVEDEV = RUSSIA > VIEWS AL QAEDA + TALIBAN, etc. AS US PROXIES, HENCE ANY ISLAMIST THREAT TO RUSSIA + FORMER SSRS IS SYNONYMOUS WID "US THREAT" TO SAME. By this scope it would NOt a stretch for Russ to view ISLAMIST IRAN IN SAME LIGHT

* WHAT NATION among others] LIES ACROSS THE "BIG WATER" ON THE OTHER SIDE OF GEORGIA > Its NUCLEARIZING ISLAMIST IRAN = RUSS-PERCEIVED
"POSSIBLE AMERICAN-PROXY" IRAN???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-08-08 20:57|| 2008-08-08 20:57|| Front Page Top

23:52 trailing wife
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