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2003-07-26 Great White North

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Posted by Rafael 2003-07-26 1:56:47 PM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 This is getting interesting. Canada appears to be trying to hold the high ground - and not reciprocate the demanding foolishness of the Black Hats.

Rafael - On this topic yesterday, you were in favor of Dual Passports.

I think dual citizenship is idiotic... and I believe the situation is simple:

If you are granted citizenship in a country, by birth or naturalization, then you are a citizen of that country. Period. No other.

If you are a naturalized citizen, then your country of origin means nothing, zip, nada, as you have pledged yourself to the new country - and they have reciprocated for that pledge by granting you rights - including representation and travel rights as evidenced by the passport. Nobody MADE you emigrate from your previous home - it was your choice. Choice made.

Can't make such a pledge? Can't reciprocate the generosity of your new home? Then stay wherever you are. Choice made.

End of story.

"As for dual citizenship, it has become too conveniant for governments to disallow it."
That just doesn't make sense. Too convenient? Wha? It's THEIR passport - to give or not.

"Most countries subscribe to the idea that you can't make a person "stateless", so dual citizenship makes it easier to boot someone out of their country."
As for booting someone, the ONE PASSPORT idea makes this idiot-proof, not the dual fiasco, to wit:
If he's YOURS, then you do whatever the law prescribes.
If he's NOT, then you apply your laws, again, as he is subject to them while in your country. If deportation is what the law prescribes, then ship his dumb ass home.

How easy - or difficult - it is to get a visa is irrelevant. I've been "on the road" for more than 5 of the last 10 years working abroad. I deal with it. I am an American citizen. It is a privilege to have a passort. Period.

Posted by PD 2003-7-26 2:39:02 PM|| 2003-7-26 2:39:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 PD - I agree. I don't understand the concept of dual citizenship. Aren't US citizens supposed to give up their allegiance to foreign powers, etc?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-7-26 3:34:42 PM|| 2003-7-26 3:34:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 ZF - Absolutely. Many countries, apparently, do not have an oath, as such. I can't see how else they could possibly allow dual citizenship. So they must ask nothing of their citizens - and that's probably exactly what they get.

Posted by PD 2003-7-26 3:41:16 PM|| 2003-7-26 3:41:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 you were in favor of Dual Passports.

Not really in favor, just that it is conveniant in my case. I hold both Canadian and Polish citizenship. I was born in Poland; my parents got out when I was about yay tall. I would love to get rid of my place of birth in my Canadian passport, and in fact I can, without problems. Not that I am ashamed, but let's face it, people in various places don't treat you solely by the cover of your passport.
However, if you omit the place of birth in your passport, several countries will not let you in without a visa, and I'm not talking about some backward countries either (Holland does it). It's true, for me it is mostly a conveniance thing. In addition, Poland now demands (it used to be otherwise) that if you hold Polish citizenship then you must use a Polish passport to enter the country. (Though due to a huge drop in people going back to visit, I've heard that if I insist loudly enough, they'll glue a Polish visa into my Canadian passport). BTW, I could be missing something, but I assume other passports also have the "place of birth" statistic.

As for dual citizenship: the re-designed, upcoming Canadian Immigration Act makes it easier to revoke a person's citizenship if they are found engaging in acts of terrorism, for example. Revoking one's citizenship means they can deport your ass and be rid of a headache. But they can't do that, and most countries won't, if you renounced your previous citizenship and you only have one. Hence I can't see governments disallowing multiple-citizenship because it is conveniant for them in cases where a citizen turns bad. BTW, the upcoming Canadian Immigration Act explicitly states that citizenship can be taken away in certain cases. But this only makes sense if you believe that a person cannot be made "stateless", ie. he has dual-citizenship.

If he's YOURS, then you do whatever the law prescribes

That's already true. In fact the Canadian passport clearly states that when visiting the country of your other citizenship, you're SOL if you screw up. In the photojournalist case, with all the Canadian gov't bashing I've been doing, I must admit they're hands are tied and all they can do is send strongly worded notes to Tehran.

If push comes to shove, there's no question which citizenship I'll be dropping (no, not the Canadian one despite my anti-Chretien, posts). But for now, again, it is a conveniance thing because everytime I visit Poland I don't have to worry about those restrictions they put on furriners. Though it is still more complicated because I'm considered "living abroad" and I do not get to enjoy all the Polish goodies like free health care.

You're right though. If you decide to make your home here, then you should slowly begin to cut that umbilical cord. Problem is, I've seen many cases of immigrants with divided loyalties, not to mention the ones that are totally incompatible with our most important values and mores: freedom and tolerance. (similar wording appears in the upcoming Canada Immigration Act, which I like :) )

Posted by Rafael 2003-7-26 4:01:22 PM|| 2003-7-26 4:01:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Aren't US citizens supposed to give up their allegiance to foreign powers, etc?

It's a matter of other countries not recognizing your allegiance. As long as they see you as a citizen of their country, you must abide by whatever law they make up. And if you think it's a simple matter to give up a citizenship, think again. In the Polish case, the Polish President has to approve it (after you pay something like $5000, and that's only if the lady at the information counter at the local Polish consulate decides it's ok to give you the application).

Posted by Rafael 2003-7-26 4:12:45 PM|| 2003-7-26 4:12:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Rafael = RG117? sorry , I was away on vacation

Posted by Frank G 2003-7-26 7:39:00 PM|| 2003-7-26 7:39:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Rafael = RG117?

Rafael = the artist formerly known as RW, proud Rantburger since circa Dec. 2002

Posted by Rafael 2003-7-26 7:48:53 PM|| 2003-7-26 7:48:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Dear Canada:
Our cops beat your citizen to death. Whatta ya gonna do about it? Nothing? Thought so.
If you wish to discuss this further, wait until we have nuclear weapons, and we will show you how things are "done" in an Islamic society. You won't like it.
Your ambassador can take this note, eat shit, and bark at the moon.
Sincerely,
Iran

Posted by Watcher 2003-7-26 9:30:09 PM|| 2003-7-26 9:30:09 PM|| Front Page Top

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