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2004-07-19 Great White North
Canada Shoots Bolt, Withdraws Amb to Iran
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Posted by .com 2004-07-19 12:59:02 AM|| || Front Page|| [11128 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 The image of a Canadian seething is one that reduces me to laughter. The people there are so-o-o-o sensible!

I think eye-rolling is out, and don't even ask about gun sex.
Posted by Steve White  2004-07-19 1:02:21 AM||   2004-07-19 1:02:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Canada recalled its Ambassador when the journalist was killed.Sent him back to Iran,and after a few weeks will send him back again.
Posted by Stephen 2004-07-19 1:22:34 AM||   2004-07-19 1:22:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 How pathetic. Iran obviously sees Canada as posing zero threat to them with their crashing SeaKing helicopters and rusty old naval tugboats. I can almost hear the crazed Iranian mullahs chortling and saying to Canada: "Blow it out your ears, girlie men infidels." Now if Canada were part of the coalition in Iraq, he, he, I think it could get a little help from its friends[read: USA, UK, Aussies] and get lots & lots of respect for Tehren.
Posted by rex 2004-07-19 1:25:23 AM||   2004-07-19 1:25:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 There are still the boys of '39, while America played baseball for chriss-sakes.
Posted by Lucky 2004-07-19 2:11:52 AM||   2004-07-19 2:11:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 I meant no insult to Canadians, #4. I have Canadian extended family. I meant that the Canadian military had been stripped by the long inglorious reign of the Liberal Party of Canada-specifically by Comrades Pierre E. Trudeau and Jean Chretien.
Posted by rex 2004-07-19 2:33:07 AM||   2004-07-19 2:33:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I mean total insult. I've heard canucks lay that "boyz of '39" on Americans more than once. Like they stood tall before America. But now they wrap the bravery of their fathers around their clucking toungues. (compared to Mexico that doesn't do shit, nada)

Iran pissed on America, they seethed and we stayed cool and fought them by proxy. Now Canada gets to "stay cool", but they can't fight.

It has nothing to do with your extended family M' rex. Canada has chosen by their own free will to be passive snoots! BTW if you go to Vancouver park your car someplace safe. Street folks have nothing stopping them from just busting loose.
Posted by Lucky 2004-07-19 3:03:46 AM||   2004-07-19 3:03:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Sons and Daughters of '39, no more. On the 4th I was stuck on a Canadian island near Vancouver, and was called an "asshole American" because I only had Visa cards and an American debit card--and guess what, that's no good for beer. You need an "Interac" card.
$8.50 CAN for a 6-pack of piss, for chrissakes. You'd think a country that talked beer up so much would be able to deliver a little to the people.

Anybody ever notice that in Canada you're only an "American" if you're regarded as an "asshole," and the rest of the time you're "from the States, eh?" "American" seems to be a term very much on the derogatory side of things up there, and "States" is a little backhanded too.
Posted by Asedwich  2004-07-19 3:55:52 AM||   2004-07-19 3:55:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 It is the same sentiment across the world …
Posted by Yates 2004-07-19 4:06:08 AM||   2004-07-19 4:06:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Well shucks Yates, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!
Posted by Asedwich  2004-07-19 4:13:37 AM||   2004-07-19 4:13:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 While it is easy to make all of Canada our whipping boys; we should keep in mind that there are men in the Canadian military that are brave warriors and have fought beside us in Afghanistan. Sure it's fun--and easy--to take Canada out to the wood shed. But in so doing we dishonor those to our North who love us and given the right political environment would fight and die beside us in every battle.
Posted by Dragon Fly  2004-07-19 9:22:03 AM||   2004-07-19 9:22:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 screw what canada thinks of us..they need us and that pisses them off...it is not our fault they are shalow...
Posted by Dan 2004-07-19 11:24:55 AM||   2004-07-19 11:24:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Of course Canada knows how to seethe. Just ask Conan O'Brian and Triumph.
Posted by ed 2004-07-19 11:49:23 AM||   2004-07-19 11:49:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 The Boys of 39 remember that it took the Americans to finish the job, it's only their children and grandchildren that have chosen to forget.
Posted by RWV 2004-07-19 2:33:26 PM||   2004-07-19 2:33:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Boyz of 39?
Posted by Jarhead 2004-07-19 2:59:16 PM||   2004-07-19 2:59:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Jarhead: Boyz of 39?

Wasn't Canada part of the British empire back then? We fought the British to get out of that racket. (It's nice to think of the Brits as fighting for the free world, but the fact is that they held back till the very last minute - and for good reason - the best course was for Hitler to duke it out with the Soviets, and have the two of these evils kill each other off. Unfortunately, the Soviets made a deal with Hitler). The Canucks went to fight for the Queen and for the empire. Hard to see what dog we had in that fight - until the last of the European dominos fell, and Hitler started looking like a world conqueror. Pearl Harbor and Hitler's declaration of war were simply fig leaves for American intervention in Europe. There was no way the US could have settled for either a Nazi- or Soviet-dominated Europe.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-07-19 4:58:42 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com]  2004-07-19 4:58:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Jarhead, I speculate that a percentage of the "Canadian" Boyz of 39 hailed from Buffalo and Livonia - if you catch my drift. It's allright; they lent us some skates for our victory in Squaw Valley to square things.
Posted by Super Hose  2004-07-19 5:10:06 PM||   2004-07-19 5:10:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 The Brits fought out of a mix of idealism and self interest, as did the US. The Canadians were in from the beginning, and fought hard in the battle of the Atlantic, at Dieppe, in Italy, and on D Day. Yup, pre-Pearl Harbor there were Yanks in the Canadian forces - IIUC there were Canadians who joined US forces in Viet Nam.

Wonder if there are any Canadians in US forces in Iraq now?
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-19 5:16:18 PM||   2004-07-19 5:16:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 The Boys of '39 - something like this?
Posted by .com 2004-07-19 5:16:46 PM||   2004-07-19 5:16:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 You know, for all the barking going on here about Iran, you Yankees are doing what, exactly, about the Iranian threat? *crickets* *more crickets* Talk about seething.

If you'd only stop and talk to some recent Iranian immigrants, you'd quickly find out that even though the people hate the mullahs as much as you, they hate the Great Satan to the same extent. Soooo, if you're not having an easy time of it in Iraq, you're going to have an exponentially worse time in Iran. So much so, that I'm willing to bet the current administration has forgone any military involvement, and has chosen the (nuclear) detterent option. In other words, Iran will be left unto itself.
Posted by Rafael 2004-07-19 8:33:39 PM||   2004-07-19 8:33:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Rafael - Lol!!! Barking, huh? I think you missed sugar-coating your words. We shall see, won't we? How much are you willing to bet? 8^)
Posted by .com 2004-07-19 8:47:34 PM||   2004-07-19 8:47:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Rafael,
Revolution is about to bust out all over Iran. E.g., look at some photos in the thread here. BTW, sorry about formating that screwy. It made the page go wobbly.
Posted by cingold 2004-07-19 8:57:52 PM||   2004-07-19 8:57:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Barking, huh?
Yeah, as in "all bark and no bite".

How much are you willing to bet?
It depends on what we are betting on. An Iraq-style invasion? Fo'get aboud id. A few Tomahawks lobbed at the nuclear plants? Probable, but highly unlikely.

Revolution is about to bust out all over Iran
And? Some Iranian fellow told me the same thing, more or less. But guess what, either way, US-Iran relations won't change. They hate you as much as the mullahs.
Posted by Rafael 2004-07-19 9:13:23 PM||   2004-07-19 9:13:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 US-Iran relations won't change. They hate you as much as the mullahs.

Yeah, right. That's why part of LA is dubbed "little Tehran." Do you know how many American Iranians can’t even speak English? They are grateful, though.
Posted by cingold 2004-07-19 9:23:53 PM||   2004-07-19 9:23:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Thank you Rafael.

"all bark and no bite"
WTF? From YOU? Fucking brilliant.

"Probable, but highly unlikely."
You speaka the English? This makes no sense.

"Revolution is about to bust out all over Iran"
Not my statement - keep your responses straight, K?

You seem out of sorts. I suggest an overdose of Ex-Lax.
Posted by .com 2004-07-19 9:25:49 PM||   2004-07-19 9:25:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Have you spoken to a recent immigrant from Iran? I have. A student in fact. Intelligent. But still hates the US.

BTW, I'm speaking from a Canadian perspective. Adjust as needed.
Posted by Rafael 2004-07-19 9:27:26 PM||   2004-07-19 9:27:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 The people who populate "little Tehran" largely fled Iran when the Mullahs took over -- but still have relatives back in Iran who they have regular contact with. The Iranians don’t hate the U.S.

The people who can get out of Iran now (to be students in the "Great Satan" U.S.) did so with the advice and consent of the Mullahs. Hmmm, I wonder if that means anything . . .
Posted by cingold 2004-07-19 9:35:45 PM||   2004-07-19 9:35:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 WTF? From YOU?
No, from YOU, as in the United States of America. Constant whining about Canada, yet doing nothing yourself. It's called hypocrisy.

This makes no sense.
You're right it doesn't. I meant to say it's possible but highly unlikely.

Not my statement
I never said it was. Anybody following the thread will figure it out.

You seem out of sorts.
Well, re-read the snarky commentary and you'll have the reason why.
Posted by Rafael 2004-07-19 9:38:14 PM||   2004-07-19 9:38:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 The people who can get out of Iran now...did so with the advice and consent of the Mullahs.

And you know this how? The student I spoke to emigrated on his own volition. All is not what it seems. If you think that you can intervene in Iran and be greeted with rose petals, you are mistaken.
Posted by Rafael 2004-07-19 9:45:52 PM||   2004-07-19 9:45:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Well Raffy, how about commenting on the article then. Canada can't do squat about anything, unless they sue at the Hague or pout to the UN.

Iranian hard boyz beat the shit out of and kills one of yours and Canada recalls their ambassador? What say you Raf, from a Canadien point of view.

Posted by Lucky 2004-07-19 9:56:51 PM||   2004-07-19 9:56:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 No revolution will break out in Iran. Why? Because the mullahs in power will kill anyone and their family/clan who even looks looks cross-ways at them, and the Iranian people know it. Iran probably lost 500K dead in the Iran-Iraq war and the mullahs did not bat an eyelash. Power is an all or nothing proposition to those guys and how can they be wrong when Allah is on their side?

Iran has a population of 70 million, lot of whom are of fighting age, and a lot of mountainous terrain. The only way the mullahs will be toppled is if the US goes in with large army (500K-1mil) and a large expat Iranian army to take control for a while. While it may be possible to get Iranians to join the in-country, it seems to be poor strategy to rely on it. Since the entire US Armed Forces active duty force is 1.4 mil, it ain't gonna happen.
Posted by ed 2004-07-19 9:56:55 PM||   2004-07-19 9:56:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Prolly about right ed. And I don't discount what Rafael has to say about Iranians hating the great satan and all. Many do for sure. I read about a year ago on some blog how many Iranians hostile to the mullahs are pissed that they havn't devoloped the bomb yet.
Posted by Lucky 2004-07-19 10:06:54 PM||   2004-07-19 10:06:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 So "boom" goes Israel?

Only one way this happens:

1) The intel indicates the Iranians are still some time (at least a year or more) away from ability to deliver nuke.

2) Skeery wins.

Otherwise, if the Iranian Nuke Pgm doesn't go "critical" before November - which would be a drop-dead action signal - and Bush is re-elected...

Other than Rafael, who seems to have a shitty outlook because of comments about Canada, does anyone here believe that the US won't, at the very least, do the short-term (whack nuke facilities) itself or support in every way an Israeli effort (recent F16I comment indicates they would have the range) to do so?

Anyone?

I disagree with you, ed, as posted up in another thread. Such is life.
Posted by .com 2004-07-19 10:12:10 PM||   2004-07-19 10:12:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Canada can't do squat about anything, unless they sue at the Hague or pout to the UN.

Canada is one tenth the population of the United States, and you're pretty much complaining that they've not invaded Iran by themselves.

What would you have wanted them to do? Even if they became as fully militarized as North Korea, they'd still not have the power to invade Iran. Let us hear some actual suggestions on your part.

Like Australia, Canada has the power to take part in global wars only through *gasp* multilateral efforts. Following the banner of UK, or USA, or both.

And that's not something *shameful*, that's just a fact of life: Some countries have less power (and population and military capacity) than the US does.

Iranian hard boyz beat the shit out of and kills one of yours and Canada recalls their ambassador?

Iran supports a guerrilla war in Iraq that has already killed dozens, possibly hundreds of Americans. And same as Rafael, I believe that there's practically no chance of a US invasion of Iran, and only a slim possibility of any US bomb/missile strikes at all.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-07-19 10:22:03 PM||   2004-07-19 10:22:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Canada can't do squat about anything, unless they sue at the Hague or pout to the UN.

That's not in dispute, now is it? What would you like us to do, invade? We'd get slaughtered faster than the Germans at Messines Ridge. Not because our guys can't fight, but because we don't have your GDP to spend on the military.

Iranian hard boyz beat the shit out of and kills one of yours and Canada recalls their ambassador?

A little detail you don't mention is that the photo journalist that was killed was also an Iranian citizen. There's not much that Canada can do in a situation like this, now is there? Now go ahead and debate the detriments of dual citizenship to your philosophical heart's content, but it won't change the way the world is.

.com> Other than Rafael, who seems to have a shitty outlook

...based on candid conversations with a particular Iranian, and based on a couple of years at Rantburg.
Posted by Rafael 2004-07-19 10:27:54 PM||   2004-07-19 10:27:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 .com,
I think Israel will go boom. I also think cites in the US will also go boom before this is over, because we won't do the terrible violence to end this quickly.

Even if the US or Israel attacks known and suspected nuclear facilities, I am sure the mullahs are smart enough to have redundant facilities unknown to the US. Don't you think a 50,000 sq. ft. underground facility can hold 5,000 centrifuges. Couple that with underground electric lines or oil pipelines to power it. Such a place will be almost impossible to find and our spy capability in Iran seems to suck. Now replicate this 10 or 20 times.

All an attack will do is bounce rubble (I would have moved all sensitive equipment out) and unite the Iranian population against the US agression. If we are going to attack, then kill the regime and take the country in one blow.

I will look for the other thread you mentioned.
Posted by ed 2004-07-19 10:33:29 PM||   2004-07-19 10:33:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 "a particular Iranian"

One guy. Not exactly a confidence-building sample, now is it? One or two or three recent immigrants to Canada would not a solid case make, IMO. BUT I did not dispute you, did I? No, because I take first-hand accounts as very important, so I kept my mouth shut. Bitch at someone else, if you're still in the mood. I happen to support Canadian troops - as with my first post in this thread - because I served with some and they were certainly fine men. And we've been here before, if your memory is intact, regards a thread about Afghanistan when a Canadian soldier died, some time back. It's Canadian politicians and policy-makers (e.g. immigration policy) that get my American goat. Canuck soldiers are as good as your government allows them to be - limited only by the training, equipment, and uses to which they are put.
Posted by .com 2004-07-19 10:38:21 PM||   2004-07-19 10:38:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 ed - Sorry for being lazy - here's the link.

You have no idea hope much I hope you're wrong - of course I know you would like it to be otherwise, too. Sigh. My deepest fears are that you're right.
Posted by .com 2004-07-19 10:42:37 PM||   2004-07-19 10:42:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 One guy. Not exactly a confidence-building sample, now is it?

Admittedly not. But neither did the conversation take place in a vacuum. Maybe a year ago I would have doubted him, but it's hard to argue against something that makes sense, backed up by personal experience.
I know many immigrants; Iranians, Pakistanis, Indians, Afghanis, more Pakistanis, and one Bangladeshi. One particular Afghani hated the Taliban, and also hates Bush. Now how can anyone figure that one out?!?!? (without Rantburg of course). What this Iranian guy told me seems plausible and after further deliberation, seems logical as well: don't expect to be loved by whoever takes power after the Mad Mullahs disappear.
Posted by Rafael 2004-07-19 11:54:45 PM||   2004-07-19 11:54:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 The thing is, Rafael, et al, your sample is by definition skewed. Any Iranian (or Afghani, pakistani, whatever) that dislikes America, but wants all the benefits of the lifestyle, will choose to emigrate to Canada. Contrariwise, by definition those who like America will land a little further south. So, of course both sample sets say different things. No doubt this reflects divisions in the home countries as well. We saw this in the reaction to the invasion of Iraq: some on both sides of the ocean were enthusiastic and supportive, even to the point of enlisting in the U.S. or Iraqi armed forces, police, etc. Some on both sides engaged in attempts at Jihad, sabotage, and so forth.

So please accept that you all are correct within your own particular sample group, and turn your clever minds to figuring out how the mullahs can be toppled....quickly, please!
Posted by trailing wife 2004-07-20 12:26:30 AM||   2004-07-20 12:26:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#40 Ooh, let a fire I did.

Raf, Aris, I'd like to see Canada (with a capitol C) get behind the USA and quit acting like girly men. If Canada thinks the USA is on a global conquest say it out loud. But don't be piss'n and moan'n and acting like Canada and Greece have shit to offer anybody until they put their asses on the line and act against the evil that is staring you in the face. Thats what I want you to do. Read it agian, Step up and do the unpopular hard thing(y)

Aris, how goes security in Greece? Hope everything is tidy.
Posted by Lucky 2004-07-20 1:23:34 AM||   2004-07-20 1:23:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#41 Lucky> like to see Canada (with a capitol C) get behind the USA and quit acting like girly men

In which case, Iran would still be where it was, doing exactly what it is doing, because "getting behind the USA" meant invading Iraq and not doing anything about Iran.

What you mean to say is that you object to Canada being independent rather than a part of the USA. What you mean to say is that you have contempt for any decision of Canada that doesn't coincide with that of the USA. What you mean to say is that a "manly man" must follow his master's leash.

So you still didn't answer the question. What do you think Canada should do about IRAN?? Spelled with an 'N'.

And as for your references to Greece, you still have the retarded nationalists' outlook that my name automatically means that everything I say and every opinion I do somehow refers to Greece, and therefore that you can somehow counter it by also referring to Greece. Like antisemites treat Jewish ancestry and racists use race, likewise you use my nation.

But since you asked, security in Greece has been going very well. Unlike in the USA or Israel, no people have been killed due to terrorism for several years.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-07-20 8:37:04 AM||   2004-07-20 8:37:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#42 Actually just the opposite on your Canada take. A united front in Iraq would be a scary thing for Iran. Irans time is coming. Canada will snip and quilble like girls. I don't have any contempt for canada for being independant. I have contempt for their contempt of what the USA is trying to do. And thats lead Aris. Canada can't be troubled though.

"Greece to rely on NATO for security" I use your nation as an example of those countries, like Canada, who stop at actually doing what needs to be done. Anti-Greco my ass. I hear its very pretty and the food is to die for. Cluck cluck Aris.
Posted by Lucky 2004-07-20 11:37:23 AM||   2004-07-20 11:37:23 AM|| Front Page Top

00:55 Anonymous8833
00:48 Anonymous1126
01:57 TanyaFromVegas
16:36 Frank G
16:09 Anonymous5876
16:03 Anonymous5876
11:37 Lucky
10:51 danking70
08:37 Aris Katsaris
08:17 Frank G
01:41 Super Hose
01:23 Lucky
01:22 Bomb-a-rama
01:20 Edward Yee
00:40 trailing wife
00:26 trailing wife
00:14 Super Hose
00:02 .com
00:00 .com
23:58 Bomb-a-rama
23:56 Super Hose
23:54 Rafael
23:53 Stephen
23:53 John









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