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2007-06-02 Israel-Palestine-Jordan
MEMRI on Fatah vs. Hamas
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Posted by JAB 2007-06-02 01:16|| || Front Page|| [3 views ]  Top

#1 God grant you're right, Driveby Lurker... although I'll take success by muddling through if that's all that's on offer.
Posted by trailing wife 2007-06-02 10:51||   2007-06-02 10:51|| Front Page Top

#2 Why on earth would the Jooos go back (again), clean up the mess (again), and then depart (again)? Besides, there'd hardly be anyone left.

C'mon, people! Call in the UN! They can fix it!
Posted by Bobby 2007-06-02 11:00||   2007-06-02 11:00|| Front Page Top

#3 TW with all due respect: Since I have been following this thing (and this was way before 9-11( full disclosure: as a complete bore on the subject of international politics from 1900 onwards and especially the so called interbellum (1918-1940) and the cold war) I can see moves and countermoves here, to cut it short, viewing from the perspective presented by the media (witch is per definition always short term and per nature always alarmist) the bigger players (or rather the smartest) always seem to be muddling through but come out on top in the end (even if there is a need for bloody slugfests like the first and second world wars, witch both, if viewed through the perspective of the german superiority cult and the war of 1870 where unavoidable)
Posted by Drive By Lurker 2007-06-02 11:15||   2007-06-02 11:15|| Front Page Top

#4 "How can the Hamas and Fatah leaders ignore the fact that it was Bush's government, and the Sharon and Olmert governments, that pushed [Hamas and Fatah] to this situation, and that the [internal] Palestinian fighting is [actually] an Israeli aspiration?"

Bwaahaahaaa…you ignorant fools. Like the rat bastards that you are, once again, you’ve taken the cheese. Your paranoia and corruption is no match for your evil US/Zionist overlords. Don’t give up your culture of hate, greed, and fanaticism. That would only lead to your eventual self-destruction. It’s neither land nor ideology that motivates us. We only seek your prolonged despair for our sheer amusement. Bwaahaahaaa...
Posted by Great Satan and Little Satan 2007-06-02 11:16||   2007-06-02 11:16|| Front Page Top

#5 launch a third intifada, this time against those responsible for the internal chaos
That would be the jooooooooos. Just ask any Arab.
Posted by Gary and the Samoyeds">Gary and the Samoyeds  2007-06-02 11:22|| http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2007-06-02 11:22|| Front Page Top

#6 #14 (should add) and offcourse the way the germans funded their economy in the run up to 1918 and 1940.

(posting and working graveyardshifts do not compliment each other:-)
Posted by Drive By Lurker 2007-06-02 11:29||   2007-06-02 11:29|| Front Page Top

#7 Posting and working graveyard shifts? That means you get to start all the threads you want, Drive by Lurker... and then finish them, too. ;-)

It sounds like we may need to schedule you for a couple of Rantburg University lectures, my dear -- even though Daddy was in Israel 1934-1957, and although I learnt to read and write in Hebrew before I learnt to do so in English, I've never been able to figure out what's going on beneath the surface over there. I struggle with Europe, too; Mama grew up in Germany and Holland during the Nazi period, then came over here in 1946, but if her understanding is much deeper she's never shared it with me. Some of our more devious-minded posters have done their best to explain, but... We've some serious history enthusiasts here. I suspect you'd have to work really, really hard to bore this audience if you are bringing perspective to current events. Truly!
Posted by trailing wife 2007-06-02 19:40||   2007-06-02 19:40|| Front Page Top

#8 Oops. I'd swear I had this one on the background page. Also I forgot to compliment the Captains Quarters weblog for finding this. I don't check MEMRI nearly enough.
Posted by JAB 2007-06-02 01:24||   2007-06-02 01:24|| Front Page Top

#9 Among the solutions proposed in the Palestinian media were to launch a third intifada, this time against those responsible for the internal chaos

Is there nothing an intifada can’t do? I guess when your only solution to every problem is murder suddenly everybody needs killing.

In a similar vein, Fatah spokesman Tawfiq Abu Khoussa accused Hamas of losing control over its armed militias.

This patently fallacious notion—of being able to control terrorists—will be what eventually gets all Muslims killed. To quote from Wretchard’s rather prescient “Three Conjectures”:
At this point, a United States choked with corpses could still not negotiate an end to hostilities or deter further attacks. There would be no one to call on the Red Telephone, even to surrender to. In fact, there exists no competent Islamic authority, no supreme imam who could stop a jihad on behalf of the whole Muslim world. Even if the terror chiefs could somehow be contacted in this apocalyptic scenario and persuaded to bury the hatchet, the lack of command and control imposed by the cell structure would prevent them from reining in their minions. Due to the fixity of intent, attacks would continue for as long as capability remained. Under these circumstances, any American government would eventually be compelled by public desperation to finish the exchange by entering -1 x 10^9 in the final right hand column: total retaliatory extermination.

On another occasion, Azzam Al-Ahmad called to dismantle the Executive Force, accusing its men of carrying out executions that were pushing the Palestinians to the brink of civil war.

If this is just the “brink” of Palestinian civil war, I’d hate to see the real thing. Just the number of foot wounds alone would be appalling.

"A strong smell of Al-Qaeda is rising from what is being done in Gaza by the [forces] of chaos, which are murdering Palestinian security personnel and killing innocent women and children [right] in front of Prime Minister [Ismail Haniyya] from Hamas, who is unable to restrain them."

It’s what al Qaeda and Muslims in general do best. Aren’t you proud?

Both movements," he added," need a second Mecca Agreement in order to resolve the problems that still remain, such as the hierarchy within the security apparatuses and the appointment of an interior minister."

Yessiree Bob, another Mecca Agreement should be just the ticket. After all, the first one worked so very well.

Ahmad Yousef also accused the U.S. of strengthening Fatah at the expense of Hamas."

It just might have something to do with America finally developing some scruples about dealing with self-proclaimed terrorist organizations. Hamas’ declared intent regarding genocide against Israel probably isn’t winning them any popularity contests either.

At the same time, Al-Hazan also evoked a conspiracy theory blaming the U.S. and Israel for the situation in Gaza: "[When] the Bush administration pressured President Mahmoud Abbas into holding elections in the PA, they both knew that Hamas would win, not thanks to any achievements [of its own] but due to the corruption within Fatah. Hamas [indeed] won, but it is designated in the U.S. and Europe as a terrorist organization, and thus the Bush administration achieved its aim. It boycotted the Palestinians, lay siege to their government, and starved [them], using Hamas' [designation as] a terrorist organization as an excuse.

Excpt that it’s not an “excuse”. Hamas is a terrorist organization and the Palestinians knew damn well that electing them would set off a shitstorm. Never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity, of course they went right ahead and elected them anyway. Now stop your whingeing and lie down in that rocky bed you’ve made for yourself.

Everything that is happening today [in Gaza] is a result of Sharon's plan to sabotage the [resolving] of the Palestinian problem.

Yeah, sure. All those Qassam rockets being fired into Israel have absolutely nothing to do with the zero progress being made. Nothing at all.

Others evoked the factor of tribal and factional affiliation taking priority over national solidarity.

One look at Iraq tells me this isn’t just some sort of local problem.

You are murdering the [Palestinian] cause, [our] people and [our] future... Oh murderers, you have ruined our world, castrated our nationalism, prostituted our resistance... You have turned our lives into hell. [In fact,] hell is preferable... Take your government, your militias, and your gangs and go to hell."

Must be kinda shocking to see their national policy of incessant murder suicide attacks come back to bite them on the ass so hard. And who needs to “go to hell”? They’ve managed to brew up quite a nice little corner of it all by themselves.

You are neither Muslims nor believers

There’s that old “not Islamic enough” crapulence again. You’d think they’d have learned by now.

Today, we are ashamed to speak out loud of our Palestinian [identity], when in the past we took pride in our Palestinian self-sacrifice, revolution and martyrdom.

Live by suicide attacks, die by suicide attacks. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch.

Oh murderers of Gaza... you have no place [among us] now that you have killed everything that is beautiful within us.

Arafat probably deserves most of the credit for that, not this crew.

Once, we resisted Israel together, but now we call for the return of the Israeli army to Gaza.

You can bet that Israel is more than a little reluctant to resume such an unrewarding task. Something about Palestinian ingratitude springs to mind.

The fundamentalist forces which came into power [after it] also promised change and reform, but [instead, people] got a siege, with no security and no [chance of] making a living

Hey, you left out that part about the sewage tsunami.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-06-02 02:28||   2007-06-02 02:28|| Front Page Top

#10 The fruits of your labor are cheap as hell, palestine. Hell, there IS NO PALESTINE.
Posted by newc">newc  2007-06-02 03:04||   2007-06-02 03:04|| Front Page Top

#11 now that you have killed everything that is beautiful within us.

Okay, I have to pull out magnifying glass, just don't see it... looking... still looking... Can anyone help me out here? It is a mystery to me what "anything that is beautiful within them" may be...

but now we call for the return of the Israeli army to Gaza.

Not an entirely bad idea, but I would suggest a reasonable proxy of distance, and the actual contact faciliated by special messengers of the infantryc kind.
Posted by twobyfour 2007-06-02 03:08||   2007-06-02 03:08|| Front Page Top

#12 Led, of course, by a heavy barrage of 155mm fire.
Posted by Ahnuld 2007-06-02 03:30||   2007-06-02 03:30|| Front Page Top

#13 Great dissection of the article, Zenster.

Also, this bit of irony positively screams out to be mentioned:

- Al-Ayyam columnist Ashraf Al-Ajrami wrote: "We are facing a new nakba..."

As I was curious, I looked up the definition of that unfamiliar word.

Nakba: translates as 'cataclysm'; it is the Arabic term for the creation of Israel in 1948

- Faiz Abbas and Muhammad Awwad, journalists for the Israeli-Arab weekly Al-Sinara, wrote: "People in Gaza are hoping that Israel will reenter the Gaza Strip, wipe out both Hamas and Fatah, and then withdraw again... They also say that, since the [start of the] massacres, they [have begun to] miss the Israelis, since Israel is more merciful than [the Palestinian gunmen] who do not even know why they are fighting and killing one another. It's like organized crime, [they said]. Once, we resisted Israel together, but now we call for the return of the Israeli army to Gaza."

So now they are hoping the awful Israelis who should not even exist will ride to their rescue to save them from the hell of their own making?

Cognitive dissonance at its finest!
Posted by Grumenk Philalzabod0723 2007-06-02 04:24||   2007-06-02 04:24|| Front Page Top

#14 So now they are hoping the awful Israelis who should not even exist will ride to their rescue to save them from the hell of their own making?

Bingo, GP. All Israel is obliged to do is laugh and point.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-06-02 04:37||   2007-06-02 04:37|| Front Page Top

#15 And make sure the 2 sides remain equally balanced. Don't forget that.

God (speaking as an Athiest) forbid either side would win.

Posted by phil_b 2007-06-02 06:24||   2007-06-02 06:24|| Front Page Top

#16 God (speaking as an Athiest) forbid either side would win.

This is where your local Zionist Oppresors come in.
Posted by Shipman">Shipman  2007-06-02 06:58||   2007-06-02 06:58|| Front Page Top

#17 Wall them in and let the problem take care of itself.
Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader  2007-06-02 08:17||   2007-06-02 08:17|| Front Page Top

#18 Watching the news these days (Leb (with some rather nice side effects to the " failed" Israeli offence last year), Iraq,Afghanistan (The dreaded spring offensive TM (I am severely HTML challenged)), one cannot escape the notion that we see some rather "interesting" parts of the grand strategy behind the WOT grinding forward.

Maybe yielding the short and medium term PR advantage to the enemy is starting to pay of.

I like it.
Posted by Drive By Lurker 2007-06-02 10:39||   2007-06-02 10:39|| Front Page Top

10:43 Steve White
10:43 Angaiger Tojo1904
10:42 Pappy
10:42 Steve White
10:39 Drive By Lurker
10:39 JFM
10:38 Steve White
10:30 Matt K.
10:29 DepotGuy
10:28 Steve White
10:27 Grunter
10:27 Anguper Hupomosing9418
10:08 Redneck Jim
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10:03 John Frum
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10:01 Shipman
09:58 Redneck Jim
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09:47 Mike









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