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2007-06-17 China-Japan-Koreas
China arming terrorists
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Posted by ed 2007-06-17 09:36|| || Front Page|| [11135 views ]  Top

#1 i always felt China and Russia were behind all of the west enemies whether Iran,Taleban and North Korea.
Posted by Paul 2007-06-17 10:21||   2007-06-17 10:21|| Front Page Top

#2 We could hurt china badly by passing even mild trade sanctions against it. Hell, if we just held them strictly to their trade agreements they would squeal.
Posted by bigjim-ky 2007-06-17 10:29||   2007-06-17 10:29|| Front Page Top

#3 Some arms were sent by aircraft directly from Chinese factories to Afghanistan and included large-caliber sniper rifles, millions of rounds of ammunition, rocket-propelled grenades and components for roadside bombs, as well as other small arms.

I have persistently maintained that China is the real foe. With Russia in eclipse, it is our confrontation with Beijing's communist Mandarins that will make the Global War on Terror look like a walk in the park. Much like with Arab oil, we pour money into the coffers of America's enemies who do not hesitate to buy off our politicians for mere pennies.

The words of Srdja Trifkovic ring ever more true:

The elite class has every intention of continuing to “fight” the war on terrorism without naming the enemy, without revealing his beliefs, without unmasking his intentions, without offending his accomplices, without expelling his fifth columnists, and without ever daring to win. Their crime can and must be stopped. The founders of the United States overthrew the colonial government for offenses far lighter than those of which the traitor class is guilty.
[emphasis added]

America and the West in general is being sold down the river by a closed shop of moneyed guild mentality elitists whose inherited or illicitly acquired wealth protects them ever having to legitimately support themselves by inventing or producing anything of actual use to mankind.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-06-17 11:11||   2007-06-17 11:11|| Front Page Top

#4 U.S. government appeals to China to check some of the arms shipments in advance were met with stonewalling by Beijing, which insisted it knew nothing about the shipments

Good, then when we destroy them you don't know anything about all those loud booms (You said so-and in print too) Gotcha, can't complain now without admiing that you lied. (Huge loss of "Face" there.)
Posted by Redneck Jim 2007-06-17 11:44||   2007-06-17 11:44|| Front Page Top

#5 There should be a quiet program of creating accidents both to governments that do this shit, and the companies that make the weapons in the first place. Industrial accidents, catastrophic failures, that sort of thing.

Sort of like that little boo-boo that happened at Riga towards the end of the Cold War, in which the entire naval base became a crater.
Posted by Anonymoose 2007-06-17 11:48||   2007-06-17 11:48|| Front Page Top

#6 Damn 'Moose, you stole the words right off my keyboard, second the motion, some very loud factory "Disappearances" are in order.
Preferably when they're closed, the workers aren't at fault here. (Do they close Sundays?)
Posted by Redneck Jim 2007-06-17 11:56||   2007-06-17 11:56|| Front Page Top

#7 Ahem. Before you Americans get all raighteously indignant---who arms Paleos?
Posted by gromgoru  2007-06-17 12:03||   2007-06-17 12:03|| Front Page Top

#8 And before all you non-americans get all indignant, Had any 9-11 equivalents in YOUR country?
Posted by Redneck Jim 2007-06-17 12:24||   2007-06-17 12:24|| Front Page Top

#9 LOL Redneck Jim... ummmm.... bad move.
Posted by Shipman">Shipman  2007-06-17 12:27||   2007-06-17 12:27|| Front Page Top

#10 who arms Paleos?

Back-stabbing hypocrite sell-out elitist submoron politicians with their global government and multicultural agendas.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-06-17 13:01||   2007-06-17 13:01|| Front Page Top

#11 gro*m, why don't you guys win the next war with Hezbollah? it would be a big help in the WOT.

btw I have a few more suggestions..
Posted by Red Dawg">Red Dawg  2007-06-17 16:12||   2007-06-17 16:12|| Front Page Top

#12  The Bush administration has been trying to hide or downplay the intelligence reports to protect its pro-business policies toward China, and to continue to claim that China is helping the United States in the war on terrorism.

History will record George Bush Jr. as the biggest traitor in the history of America. Of course he's had help from the greedy bastards in business, and the Left.

This country is well and truly screwed! Even if the American people somehow wake up and realize what is going on, it's probably to late. I hope everyone here has made a list.
Posted by Natural Law 2007-06-17 16:24||   2007-06-17 16:24|| Front Page Top

#13 #7, check out the past editions of the Jerusalem Post to see how much ammo, money, intel, and other aid was given to Fatah by the sitting Israeli PM Olmert and his crew.
Posted by Shieldwolf 2007-06-17 16:37||   2007-06-17 16:37|| Front Page Top

#14 Donald Rumsfeld knew China was the real enemy we needed to prepare to face.

That's why he was lukewarm on committing our whole army in Iraq and why he wanted to push serious transformation of equipment and doctrine.

Whether one agrees with his means or tactical choices, I think he was dead on re: the larger issues.
Posted by occasional observer 2007-06-17 16:45||   2007-06-17 16:45|| Front Page Top

#15 Who gives the paleos water and electricity?

Who feeds them and takes care of their wounded?

Who does the Jerusalem land grab?

Who gets over 2 billion every year from us and whines when someone else gets 86 million?

How many Paleo spies are in our prisons?

How many of our weapons have the Paleoa sold to China.

I know why the world hates the Jews, and it aint because they sent Christ to his death.
Posted by Mike N.  2007-06-17 16:52||   2007-06-17 16:52|| Front Page Top

#16 Tell me you are make the joke Mike. That's crazy talk.
Posted by Shipman 2007-06-17 18:39||   2007-06-17 18:39|| Front Page Top

#17 The Jews are reputed to be complainers, Ship.

We tried to help them by helping Fatah defeat Hamas because if Hamas wins, Israel has zero chance of peace with its neighbor.

When a citizen of one of our welfare states complains about us trying to help them, ima gonna fire back.
Posted by Mike N.  2007-06-17 18:57||   2007-06-17 18:57|| Front Page Top

#18 
I have persistently maintained that China is the real foe. With Russia in eclipse, it is our confrontation with Beijing's communist Mandarins that will make the Global War on Terror look like a walk in the park. Much like with Arab oil, we pour money into the coffers of America's enemies who do not hesitate to buy off our politicians for mere pennies.


Then isn't it about time you started talking as if you actually believed that instead of wanting to turn the one and a half _billion_ Moslems on the planet into willing and convenient Chinese proxies by declaring full-out war on the whole religion?
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2007-06-17 21:12||   2007-06-17 21:12|| Front Page Top

#19 Mike, I sincerely most sincerely hope you misspoke, and therefore I misunderstand you.
Posted by trailing wife 2007-06-17 21:52||   2007-06-17 21:52|| Front Page Top

#20 Then isn't it about time you started talking as if you actually believed that instead of wanting to turn the one and a half _billion_ Moslems on the planet into willing and convenient Chinese proxies by declaring full-out war on the whole religion?

Isn't it about time you quit being a professional hand wringer and came up with some actual solutions instead of poking at those of us who at least make an effort?

In case you haven't realized it, Islam is our enemy. The few small pockets of "moderate" or benign Muslims are statictically insignificant. The Koran has a single end goal, the destruction of all other forms of religion and government, by violence or force as needed. This is much the same as with communism. Both require a similar suspension of disbelief and an equal degree of ideological fanaticism. Both are wholly inimical to modern Western culture and its inalienable rights.

A vast number of Muslims are already sufficiently hostile to America and the West whereby there would be little if any difference were they to become your fearsome "Chinese proxies". You may not have noticed that certain portions of Islam have already declared "full-out war" on America. It is only their lack of cohesiveness and modern weaponry that seems to mitigate the threat they present. In reality, there is no reduction in threat due to how exceedingly fragile the world's economy truly is. The 9-11 atrocity quite likely cost America over one trillion dollars. A mere handful of terrorist nuclear attacks at key global economic centers could send our planet into a decades long tailspin.

You sound as if you are willing or able to make some sort of accomodation with Islam, if not communism. It's difficult to tell from the vacuous nature of your posts, so why don't you let everyone in on your big plan to fight Islamic terrorism?
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-06-17 22:05||   2007-06-17 22:05|| Front Page Top

#21 #17: "The Jews are reputed to be complainers"

Complainers, Mike? Sounds like you've confused the Joooooos with the Arabs (otherwise known as those whiney-assed skinless people in a sandpaper world).

What's next for you - a mention that Jews "are reputed" to be good with money? Yeesh.

You seriously need to get a life.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2007-06-17 22:22|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]  2007-06-17 22:22|| Front Page Top

#22 Zenster. You have the range, fire for effect. 8-)
Posted by Natural Law 2007-06-17 22:26||   2007-06-17 22:26|| Front Page Top

#23 
Isn't it about time you quit being a professional hand wringer and came up with some actual solutions instead of poking at those of us who at least make an effort?

Funny, I thought you were doing a fine job of being a professional handwringer yourself. I'm not poking at the people in the armed forces who are actually making an effort, or sitting around saying that everything is doomed, DOOOMED, until we unlock the nukes and start exterminating people.
In case you haven't realized it, Islam is our enemy. The few small pockets of "moderate" or benign Muslims are statictically insignificant. The Koran has a single end goal, the destruction of all other forms of religion and government, by violence or force as needed. This is much the same as with communism. Both require a similar suspension of disbelief and an equal degree of ideological fanaticism. Both are wholly inimical to modern Western culture and its inalienable rights.
Then why aren't we fighting a billion and a half people in Iraq or Afghanistan? Why do the "insurgents" need to bring in support and people from other countries? Iraq has an overwhelming Moslem majority population, if what you're saying about them is true, they wouldn't need to bring in suicide bombers from Yemen or anything like that.

If they were all Implacable Islamic Enemies, we wouldn't be able to have an armed presense of 140,000 or so soldiers in a country with 27 million. (I think that's the current number of "occupiers" with the surge: about 1 US soldier per 200 people).
You sound as if you are willing or able to make some sort of accomodation with Islam, if not communism.


No. But to extend an analogy: Reagan didn't get himself too worked up in a lather talking about the need to exterminate Russians (or, for that matter, Poles and Czechs) in order to deal with the threat of Communist party theologians in Moscow. He had something to advocate besides basic survival that would resonate with people.
It's difficult to tell from the vacuous nature of your posts, so why don't you let everyone in on your big plan to fight Islamic terrorism?

It's difficult to fight proxy wars like this with a "master plan" in mind. It's sort of like asking Truman in '51 how he planned to destroy the Soviet Union.

If he didn't have a plan, does that mean he shouldn't have fought the Korean War?
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2007-06-17 22:29||   2007-06-17 22:29|| Front Page Top

#24 Phooey. I should have used preview one more time, I think I forgot a backslash.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2007-06-17 22:30||   2007-06-17 22:30|| Front Page Top

#25 Another thought occurs to me: If the Ummah had the sort of social cohesiveness you thought it did, they wouldn't be trying to hard to acquire nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2007-06-17 22:41||   2007-06-17 22:41|| Front Page Top

#26 Oh, and although I don't have a master plan... I think the following would work:

a) get out of the WTO.

b) substitute instead bilateral, country-to-country agreements, like we have with Mexico and Canada.

c) Possibly inform the Chinese government that they're gonna have to decide which market they care more about: the shoulder-fired missile market in Southwest Asia, or the consumer goods market in the US. "What puts more food on your table?"
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2007-06-17 22:45||   2007-06-17 22:45|| Front Page Top

#27 Oh, and d) Do you really wanna go along with certain other countries' plans to start a big infrastructure destroying war between your main market for manufactured goods and your main suppliers of oil?
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2007-06-17 22:47||   2007-06-17 22:47|| Front Page Top

#28 (Oh, and in case the context isn't evident: d) would have been directed at the Chinese ambassador).
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2007-06-17 22:48||   2007-06-17 22:48|| Front Page Top

#29 Yikes! My bad! My bad! I typed faster than I was thinking! I intended to point out that the comment fit the stereotype. I missed the target completely. Threw a boomerang instead.

Simple fact is, the Jews are our most reliable partner in the WoT, even moreso than half of Americas political class.
Posted by Mike N.  2007-06-17 22:54||   2007-06-17 22:54|| Front Page Top

#30 I'm not poking at the people in the armed forces who are actually making an effort, or sitting around saying that everything is doomed, DOOOMED, until we unlock the nukes and start exterminating people.

Neither am I. Feel free to cite any posts of mine where I do. Otherwise, stick it where the sun don’t shine.

Then why aren't we fighting a billion and a half people in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Where do you think the insurgents terrorists get the money to support their atrocities? Have you ever heard of zakat? It comes from those “billion and a half people”. They just take the easy way out through tithing and get to maintain the appearance that they aren’t directly attacking their host countries, which might get some of them deported or executed.

Why do the "insurgents" need to bring in support and people from other countries?

Try turning the question around. Why aren’t the vast majority of Iraqis or Afghans actively killing the terrorists whenever and wherever they rear their ugly heads? While the population may not be in direct opposition to Coalition efforts, they are nowhere near unanimous in thwarting the terrorists.

Iraq has an overwhelming Moslem majority population, if what you're saying about them is true, they wouldn't need to bring in suicide bombers from Yemen or anything like that.

I advise you to read up on “slow jihad”. Iraq’s Muslims may not be fighting us in the streets, but that in no way lessens their hatred for America or their intention of seeing Islam attain global domination. Have you ever bothered to consider how Saddam’s ruthless suppression of radical Islam permitted surrounding countries to generate a much larger base of fanatics? Maybe it’s a lot easier to persuade those fanatics to enter Iraq and kill, not just Americans, but other Iraqis than it is getting Iraqis to kill each other.

If they were all Implacable Islamic Enemies, we wouldn't be able to have an armed presense of 140,000 or so soldiers in a country with 27 million.

Again, you demonstrate a diminished comprehension of Islam and its overall designs. The Koran directly instructs its followers to lie, cheat or do anything else needed to bide their time until they attain demographic or military superiority. Just because Iraq’s Muslims are not fighting us hand-to-hand does not make them our friends.

But to extend an analogy: Reagan didn't get himself too worked up in a lather talking about the need to exterminate Russians

That’s because America had MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction), which was a credible deterrent against communist Russia. The principal of MAD is of little to no consequence as a disincentive to the world’s largest death cult.

It's difficult to fight proxy wars like this with a "master plan" in mind. It's sort of like asking Truman in '51 how he planned to destroy the Soviet Union.

Just because it’s “difficult” to originate some overall strategy doesn’t eliminate the need for intellectual integrity in this discussion. If you don’t have a plan, just say so. It will make dismissing your constant nitpicking a lot easier.

If he didn't have a plan, does that mean he shouldn't have fought the Korean War?

Straw man argument. Come back when you have something better to offer.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-06-17 23:23||   2007-06-17 23:23|| Front Page Top

#31 If the Ummah had the sort of social cohesiveness you thought it did, they wouldn't be trying to hard to acquire nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare.

Even a truly monolithic Islam still would not have the military (or even terrorist) might to defeat the nuclear armed West. That is why they are pursuing nuclear weapons. They want a deterrent shield for their continued proxy wars. While MAD does not work against Islam, it does work against the West. It is precisely this sort of asymmetry that makes significant escalation of the Global War on Terrorism so important. Time is not on our side.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-06-17 23:27||   2007-06-17 23:27|| Front Page Top

#32 I think the following would work:

a) get out of the WTO.

Why not just get China ejected? It would be far more effective.

b) substitute instead bilateral, country-to-country agreements, like we have with Mexico and Canada.

Been following any news about the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP)? The exact opposite of what you suggest is happening.

c) Possibly inform the Chinese government that they're gonna have to decide which market they care more about: the shoulder-fired missile market in Southwest Asia, or the consumer goods market in the US. "What puts more food on your table?"

And that would stop any clandestine efforts exactly how? China would merely agree to halt support and continue it under the table through proxies.

You still haven't responded on the the more central issue of fighting global terrorism. While China is this thread's topic, your own challenges have always been with respect to my anti-terrorist strategies. You've yet to respond accordingly. Nor have you provided any cites for where I am "poking at the people in the armed forces who are actually making an effort, or sitting around saying that everything is doomed, DOOOMED, until we unlock the nukes and start exterminating people." If you are going to accuse me of such things, you'd better cough up some direct quotes.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-06-17 23:38||   2007-06-17 23:38|| Front Page Top

#33 d) Do you really wanna go along with certain other countries' plans to start a big infrastructure destroying war between your main market for manufactured goods and your main suppliers of oil?

In case you haven't noticed, while China thinks that they play a deep game, they truly are incredibly short-sighted. The communists will do anything to thwart Western interests. They have bought off enough of our politicians to effectively neuter us. If China can manage to damage America's economy badly enough, they figure that the Middle East's oil fields will be their's for the taking, much like the Soviet Union once dreamed of.

I'm still waiting for some cites and a realistic strategy for fighting terrorism.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-06-17 23:44||   2007-06-17 23:44|| Front Page Top

#34 I've committed a transgression against Gods Chosen People. For that I apologies. To the Chosen People and to God.

Now I'm gonna find out if I mysteriously die in my sleep.
Posted by Mike N.  2007-06-17 23:47||   2007-06-17 23:47|| Front Page Top

#35 Slither away, Abdominal Snowman.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-06-17 23:56||   2007-06-17 23:56|| Front Page Top

23:56 Zenster
23:55 Bright Pebbles
23:55 Zenster
23:47 Mike N.
23:44 Zenster
23:43 Bright Pebbles
23:40 Bright Pebbles
23:38 Zenster
23:38 Bright Pebbles
23:27 Zenster
23:23 Zenster
23:21 Abdominal Snowman
22:54 Albemarle Cleaque8456
22:54 Mike N.
22:52 bigjim-ky
22:51 trailing wife
22:48 Abdominal Snowman
22:47 Abdominal Snowman
22:45 bigjim-ky
22:45 Abdominal Snowman
22:41 Abdominal Snowman
22:30 Abdominal Snowman
22:29 Abdominal Snowman
22:26 Natural Law









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