Article

2003-06-11 Britain

Change Union Jack Flag To Reflect Multiracial Society

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by ColoradoConservative 2003-06-11 11:00 am|| || Front Page|| [11124 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Watch out, moron about... Utterly ridiculous, and typical 'liberal' self-flagellating patronising nonsense. Turner deserves the ridicule coming to him.

This is obviously a direct reaction to the noxious racist chant "there ain't no black in the union jack", and is equally idiotic.

Posted by Bulldog 2003-06-11 11:20:46|| 2003-06-11 11:20:46|| Front Page Top

#2 thats the advantage we have - folks can go out and protest the CONFEDERATE flag, and no one has a problem with the stars and stripes - under which brave black soldiers have fought and died since the 54th Massachusetts at Fort Wagner.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-06-11 11:21:14|| 2003-06-11 11:21:14|| Front Page Top

#3 Didn't black soldiers or aides also perish in our wars prior to the Civil War? Anyone know? Crispus Attucks doesn't count. He was merely a bystander in a group heckling the Brits.

Posted by ColoradoConservative 2003-06-11 11:31:07|| 2003-06-11 11:31:07|| Front Page Top

#4 I don't know about the army, but black sailors served both in our nation's original navy as well as aboared revolutionary privateers. Interestingly enough, it wasn't until after the Civil War that they were largely forced out of the Navy.

Posted by Secret Master 2003-06-11 11:50:13|| [www.budgetwarrior.com] 2003-06-11 11:50:13|| Front Page Top

#5 Are the French adding yellow to their's? And not as a salute to Asians.

Posted by tu3031 2003-06-11 12:06:08|| 2003-06-11 12:06:08|| Front Page Top

#6 Nope, tu3031. The French will be dropping their flag permanently, as will all good members of the EU sometime in the next few years, soon after ratification of the new constitution, and will be adopting the flag of the EU. The EU flag is due for an overhaul itself, however. Currently it consists of twelve gold stars on a blue background, but already there are 15 EU states, so it doesn't make sense. With the numbers increasing every few years it wouldn't be practical to keep up, so they're ditching the stars, and are adding colours, rather than have a plain blue flag! After all, colourblind people might confuse the EU with Libya, and new-age Libya would resent being associated with such a symbol of anti-western values. The colours will probably be simple, retaining the blue but adding a couple of colours commonly found in the former flags resresenting EU nations, namely white and red. There will be a central vertical white band and, adjoining it, a vertical red band constituting the right-side third of the flag, these colours being on a blue background.

Posted by Bulldog 2003-06-11 12:21:16|| 2003-06-11 12:21:16|| Front Page Top

#7 Bulldog: How about just plain white?

Posted by tu3031 2003-06-11 12:29:26|| 2003-06-11 12:29:26|| Front Page Top

#8 Tu3031, I'm assuming that you mean the other French Flag. The banner of Paris 1940.

Posted by Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire 2003-06-11 12:38:04|| 2003-06-11 12:38:04|| Front Page Top

#9 White cross on a white backround. Baby.

Posted by Mike N. 2003-06-11 12:40:17|| 2003-06-11 12:40:17|| Front Page Top

#10 The white (actually, it's a white crescent superimposed on a white cross, on a background of white-polka-dotted white) has been reserved for the military.

Posted by Bulldog 2003-06-11 12:54:11|| 2003-06-11 12:54:11|| Front Page Top

#11 "There will be a central vertical white band and, adjoining it, a vertical red band constituting the right-side third of the flag, these colours being on a blue background. "

LOL

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-06-11 12:54:19|| 2003-06-11 12:54:19|| Front Page Top

#12 "O; give us a flag, all free without a slave.
We'll fight to defend it as our fathers did so brave.
The gallant 54th will make the rebels dance.
And we'll stand by the Union if we only have a chance."

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-06-11 13:01:52|| 2003-06-11 13:01:52|| Front Page Top

#13 "The most memorable and most recognized soldier of the 54th was Sergeant William Carney. Carney made his mark in the famous, but ill-fated battle at Fort Wagner, where his bravery in the saving of the regiments flag earned him the Congressional Medal of Honor. Sergeant William Carney was one of 600 men who enlisted in the 54th Massachusetts colored infantry. During the attack on Fort Wagnewr, the original color bearer was killed, Sergeant Carney threw down his rifle, picked up the colors and led the attack on the fort. Although wounded multiple times, Carney maintained the colors atop a parapet and later returned the colors safely to the regiment. For these feats he became the first African American to perform in combat action that resulted in the Congressional Medal of Honor."

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-06-11 13:06:12|| 2003-06-11 13:06:12|| Front Page Top

#14 Secret Master...I remember hearing about a black unit fron Rhode Island serving during the Revolution...I believe it was the 1st Rhode Island.

Posted by Hodadenon 2003-06-11 13:54:28|| 2003-06-11 13:54:28|| Front Page Top

#15 The German flag has black but we have few black people here.
It has red but German Indians (native Americans) are thin on the ground.
It also has yellow (or gold) but we neither have many Chinese nor gold mines.

Hmmmmmmm

Posted by True German Ally 2003-06-11 14:49:36|| 2003-06-11 14:49:36|| Front Page Top

#16 Actually, Blacks have fought in just about every war the US has been involved in - even before Independence. Salem Poor was a Black freedman who fought at Bunker's Hill. There were black infantrymen and artillerymen with Andrew Jackson at the Battle of New Orleans. Blacks fought on both sides during the Civil War. The biggest limitation of black participation in military service occurred between 1869 and 1939, but even during this period, there were SOME Blacks in the military, and many of those were engaged in combat. Interestingly, the same can be said for virtually every other ethnic or nationalistic group that has ever emigrated to the United States, and to a large number of Native Americans. Guess it's that "personal freedom" thing that attracts them...

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-06-11 15:10:01|| 2003-06-11 15:10:01|| Front Page Top

#17 op - theres some question whether any significant number of blacks actually fought for the Confederacy. IIUC 2 black regiments were raised in Richmond in March, 1865, but had not finished training by the time of Appomattox and never saw action. there has been considerable publicity in recent years to blacks who have family traditions of ancestors in Confed service, but this would contradict all the contemporary evidence that the CSA (prior to spring 1865)considered black soldiers an abomination - the prisoner exchange system broke down over the CSA insistence on considering black POWS as escaped slaves, leading to prison horrors north and south. Its generally considered that the traditions actually related to black servants or laborers - wearing a uniform would not have been a clear distinction, since most confed enlistees wore homespun, home dyed clothing. No evidence that they (black confeds) actually engaged in combat.

In stark contrast to over 200,000 VERY WELL DOCUMENTED black soldiers in the Union army.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-06-11 15:49:49|| 2003-06-11 15:49:49|| Front Page Top

#18 Liberalhawk is quite correct. There may have been a few blacks who fought for the Confederacy here and there in parts of the conflict which didn't involve large military formations (like Bloody Missouri), but they probably were trusted servants or slaves who had been raised alongside of a Confederate officer on some plantation (see the film Ride With the Devil for a pretty good example). For better or worse the Confederates were never exactly masters of rigid organization (look at their navy!), so anything is possible.

Posted by Secret Master 2003-06-11 16:27:31|| [www.budgetwarrior.com] 2003-06-11 16:27:31|| Front Page Top

#19 I think that Crispus Attucks earned the right to be called the first Black that died for this country. For all who are bewildered, he died in the Boston Massacre, on March 5, 1770. Note that the British did try and convict the dragoons that fired on the crowd. The officers were aquitted (nothing ever changes).

Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC California Chapter) 2003-06-11 17:49:46|| 2003-06-11 17:49:46|| Front Page Top

#20 Anyone know a reliable analysis of what happened in Boston that day? When I visited Boston I was made to feel like a guest/war criminal, but elsewhere I've heard the British troops were about to be lynched by an angry mob and were defending themselves...

Posted by Bulldog 2003-06-11 17:59:17|| 2003-06-11 17:59:17|| Front Page Top

#21 CS and Bulldog: That's the story I've read as well. Though it may be revisionism, it appears to be a correct retelling of the event. Incidentally, John Adams was the lawyer who defended the British troops. Read more at: http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/bostonmassacre/keyfigures.html

Posted by ColoradoConservative 2003-06-11 18:03:18|| 2003-06-11 18:03:18|| Front Page Top

09:26 liberalhawk
22:33 Scott
22:15 tu3031
22:12 RW
22:09 RW
22:09 R. McLeod
22:01 tu3031
22:00 Scott
21:52 Scott
21:50 Michael
21:38 Watcher
21:13 Frank G
21:11 Brian
21:09 Brian
21:07 Matt
21:07 True German Ally
20:42 11A5S
20:33 raptor
19:55 11A5S
19:50 Frank G
19:45 Bulldog
19:35 raptor
19:25 Bulldog
19:22 someone