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2003-06-10 Middle East

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Posted by Paul Moloney 2003-06-10 04:52 am|| || Front Page|| [11140 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Here's AP's very objective followup:

The strike jeopardized efforts to persuade militant groups, including Hamas, to halt attacks on Israelis. It also appeared to violate the spirit of a U.S.-backed peace plan, as part of which Israel promised to refrain from actions that undermine trust.

Of course,

Rantisi, a leader of the Hamas political wing, is considered a hardliner in the Islamic militant group. He has been among the most vocal in opposing a halt to attacks on Israelis.

but no one should think that Rantisi violates the spirit of the peace plan. That's Israel's job.

Posted by Brian 2003-06-10 05:22:10|| 2003-06-10 05:22:10|| Front Page Top

#2 The AP also took pains to say [t]he missile strike came just hours after Hamas leaders said they were considering resuming truce talks with Abbas. Anyone with a brain knew that the Israelis would retaliate after those IDF soldiers were killed. What's there to get excited about...

Posted by RW 2003-06-10 06:38:57|| 2003-06-10 06:38:57|| Front Page Top

#3 Damn shame this piece of shit is still alive - better luck next time guys....and make sure there is a next time...soon

Posted by Frank G 2003-06-10 10:03:46|| 2003-06-10 10:03:46|| Front Page Top

#4 Man, the Israelis need to get a hold of one of our Predator drones. Why the heck are they doing this with helicopters? I thought Israel had a pretty good unmanned aerial vehicle program going. I guess it wasn't as advanced as I thought it was.

Still, missed or not, good things will come out of this - (1) the Israeli cabinet has decided that Hamas's top leadership are no longer off limits and (2) Hamas's reaction, if dramatic enough (i.e. dozens of Israelis dead), will give the Israelis even more political elbow room to wipe out the rest of the Palestinian leadership, in addition to Rantisi. Without its leadership, the Palestinian terror apparatus will fall apart, due to funding and other issues. Sometimes, things have to get worse before they get better.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-06-10 10:22:22|| 2003-06-10 10:22:22|| Front Page Top

#5 Just out of curiosity why hasn't the prick known as the Hamas 'Spiritual Leader' been taken out. If anyone should be on the hit list, he should.

Posted by rg117 2003-06-10 10:25:39|| 2003-06-10 10:25:39|| Front Page Top

#6 According to Fox, Rantisi vowed Dire Revenge:

"We will continue with our holy war and resistance until every last criminal Zionist is evicted from this land," Rantisi told the Arab TV satellite station Al Jazeera.

He shouldn't say things like that, it might damage the peace process.

It would damage the peace process even more if a bunch of Mossad guys got into his hospital room tonight and gutted him like a fresh-caught bass. Yes. That would be terrible. We couldn't let that happen. If it did, we'd feel very bad afterward.

Have a nice night, Doc.

Posted by Mike 2003-06-10 10:40:08|| 2003-06-10 10:40:08|| Front Page Top

#7 "Man, the Israelis need to get a hold of one of our Predator drones."
Predators can't back up, turn at right angles, hover, or move at VERY slow speeds - walking speeds. Helicopters can. While Predators have very good low-light capability, it's still a radio-controlled vehicle. A two- or three-man helicopter crew has a better chance of keeping track of things on the ground, especially in a place like th Gaza, better than a Predator. Israel knows exactly what they're doing. I would hope for even stronger action if Hamas DOES try "Dire Revenge"

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-06-10 11:22:48|| 2003-06-10 11:22:48|| Front Page Top

#8 Now that hes in the hospital, why don't they go after him there? Excellent point rg117 - I've wondered about that for a while too.

Posted by Yosemite Sam 2003-06-10 11:33:03|| 2003-06-10 11:33:03|| Front Page Top

#9 OP, you're right - tracking a target in the desert wastes is very different from doing so in an urban environment - the only thing moving vs one of hundreds. Well, we know now that the gloves are at least partially off.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-06-10 11:36:58|| 2003-06-10 11:36:58|| Front Page Top

#10 This should do wonders for the
"Roadmap to Nowhere"
The Paleos are going to get as much press out of this as possible.
Next time, the Israelis need to make sure they eleminate their targets.

Posted by Mike N. 2003-06-10 12:34:20|| 2003-06-10 12:34:20|| Front Page Top

#11 Missing their target is nothing new for the IDF. It would be interesting to compute their hit rate as well as the rate of collateral damage per successful hit. Either the IDF cannot hit the broad side of a barn, or automobiles provide fantastic protection. In either case, Israel should seriously reconsider both their strategy and their tactics.

Posted by Curt Simon 2003-06-10 13:04:20|| 2003-06-10 13:04:20|| Front Page Top

#12 Ya know Curt, I was thinking the same thing. The IDF and Mossad had reputations for excellence, but they seem to have fallen in quality in the last couple years. Seems like a 50-50 rate on their helo missile shots from my recollection of news reports. Shouldn't be reservists making these shots either

Posted by Frank G 2003-06-10 13:16:24|| 2003-06-10 13:16:24|| Front Page Top

#13 question what was the motivation for going after rantissi, at this time?

A. Undermine the road map, which sharon was (by this theory) pressured into
B. Undermine Abbas's talks with Hamas and press him back towards his road map obligations to disarm them
C. Give Abbas more leverage in his negotiations with Hamas

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-06-10 13:20:54|| 2003-06-10 13:20:54|| Front Page Top

#14 D. All of the above.
If Hamas goes hyper-active for revenge, (everybody knows they will) it makes them-and the PA-look bad, and it forces Mazen to do something about them. If he doesn't, it's proof that the Paleos ain't (I love that word) serious about peace, and undermines the Paleos position in the Roadmap, and by default the Roadmap itself. If Mazen does do something about them, it saves a lot of Israeli citizens, and save the Israeli military from having to do it themselves. And, the strike itself gives Mazen a little weight, through fear, over Hamas.
Now, if Hamas does nothing, it makes them look impotent, and takes away any weight they did have.

Posted by Mike N. 2003-06-10 14:24:12|| 2003-06-10 14:24:12|| Front Page Top

#15 I think the hit rate and the collateral damage is a function of the kinds of risks you're willing to take. Our guys have done practically none of the kinds of things the Israelis have done - i.e. targeting people in dense urban environments. We deliberately targeted no more than a handful of specific people with aerial weaponry during the entire Iraq war. Everything else was targeted at troop concentrations or strategic sites. Israel has gone after hundreds of targets in its missile attacks. We only go after the extremely high probability targets - the Israeli threshold is lower, as it must be, given their cities are under attack on a daily basis (most Palestinian attacks fail, but some succeed - these are the ones that generate headlines abroad).

Posted by Zhang Fei 2003-06-10 14:33:59|| 2003-06-10 14:33:59|| Front Page Top

#16 Again, USE BIGGER MISSILES...

Posted by tu3031 2003-06-10 22:45:13|| 2003-06-10 22:45:13|| Front Page Top

#17 DAMN! Missed again. Just goes to illustrate what I have always said about gun control - the primary purpose is to HIT YOUR TARGET.

Posted by Anonymous Troll 2003-06-11 00:26:10|| 2003-06-11 00:26:10|| Front Page Top

#18 For good gun control use both hands.

Posted by raptor 2003-06-11 08:11:15|| 2003-06-11 08:11:15|| Front Page Top

08:11 raptor
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