Article

2009-05-14 Afghanistan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2009-05-14 10:55|| || Front Page|| [2 views ] Top

#1 So, GB... do "white phosphorus" rounds even exist for American 155mm artillery, other than illumination rounds?

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-05-14 11:14|| 2009-05-14 11:14|| Front Page Top

#2 I was gonna ask what third-world outfit was either that disconnected or biased and lying but then I noticed it was the NY Times.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-05-14 11:15|| 2009-05-14 11:15|| Front Page Top

#3 Smoke rounds for covering movements.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2009-05-14 11:34|| 2009-05-14 11:34|| Front Page Top

#4 Do what you will. We are still here.

And the women of Korangal are so thankful.

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2009-05-14 13:35|| 2009-05-14 13:35|| Front Page Top

#5 So we shot _smoke rounds_ at them? Why, to help cover their withdrawl?

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-05-14 16:48|| 2009-05-14 16:48|| Front Page Top

#6 You shoot smoke rounds when you don't want them to see what your doing. Like maybe evacuating wounded from a hot LZ, repositioning your forces, launching an assault.

It wasn't fair to the Cong hiding what we were up to but we did it anyway.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2009-05-14 16:58|| 2009-05-14 16:58|| Front Page Top

#7 "see what you're doing" Sorry about that.

P.S. If you set the fuse wrong and the shell lands amongst the bad guys you can follow the chunks of burnt flesh to find their retreat route. Or just check with the local hospital to see if anyone checked in with acute sunburn holes.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2009-05-14 17:09|| 2009-05-14 17:09|| Front Page Top

#8 In that case, you're shooting smoke rounds _between_ your positions and the enemy's. And probably closer to your position than theirs.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-05-14 17:22|| 2009-05-14 17:22|| Front Page Top

#9 Remember this is a MSM urinalist reporting the "facts"?

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2009-05-14 17:29|| 2009-05-14 17:29|| Front Page Top

#10 Yes, and the pattern in which they present the 'facts' is itself interesting. After all, they repeat "US forces shot white phosphorus at the Taliban _again_ today" (leaving unsaid the "in flagrant violation of various arms control treaties") and sooner or later you wake up and find out that smoke rounds have been outlawed.

Isn't it funny how their 'innocent factual errors' always align precisely with what the enemy propaganda needs them to be?

---------------

From the Wackypedia entry on "White Phosphorus:"

White phosphorus weapons are controversial today because of their potential use against civilians. While the Chemical Weapons Convention does not designate WP as a chemical weapon, various groups consider it to be one. In recent years, the United States, Israel, Sri Lanka and Russia have used white phosphorus in combat.

The United States' use of white phosphorus in Iraq in the Iraq War has resulted in considerable controversy amongst critics of the war. Initial field reports referred to white phosphorus use against insurgents,[3] but its use was officially denied until November 2005,[4] when the Department of Defense admitted[5] to the use of white phosphorus while stating that its use for producing obscuring smoke is legal and does not violate the CWC.[6] A DoD spokesman has also admitted that WP "was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants", though not against civilians.[7] There has also been controversy generated by indiscriminate use of white phosphorous on civilian refugee camps by the Sri Lankan government in 2009.[8]

Of course, there are a couple of logical faults in there. Should WP use be illegal because it can be used against civilians? Well, it could, but so could standard high explosive shells, which if used against civilians would also have much higher lethality.

(Wackypedia seems to acknowledge this: However, white phosphorus has a secondary effect. While much less efficient than ordinary fragmentation effects in causing casualties,...)

It also gives the lethal radius of the more _conventional_ ammo from a 155mm howitzer as being 50m. (More for "casualty radius," which I guess means they'll need medical attention but will live).

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-05-14 18:32|| 2009-05-14 18:32|| Front Page Top

#11 In that case, you're shooting smoke rounds _between_ your positions and the enemy's. And probably closer to your position than theirs.

It depends on the wind direction. You might even shoot it past the enemy if the wind is blowing toward your position from the enemies position.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2009-05-14 18:41|| 2009-05-14 18:41|| Front Page Top

#12 Good point.

Anyway, if you go over to Wikipedia they have multiple articles on WP, including a separate one on its use in Iraq. Also whether it's a war crime or not.

I wouldn't want to be shot at with WP, but I wound't want to be shot at with anything else that comes out of a 155mm gun, especially given the 100m "casualty radius."

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-05-14 18:44|| 2009-05-14 18:44|| Front Page Top

23:57 trailing wife
23:48 trailing wife
23:47 CrazyFool
23:41 trailing wife
23:36 trailing wife
23:18 trailing wife
23:16 trailing wife
22:30 Willy
22:04 Skunky Glins 5***
21:31 GirlThursday
21:30 James
21:14 Frank G
21:14 Frank G
21:03 49 Pan
20:55 49 Pan
20:20 NoMoreBS
19:52 Thing From Snowy Mountain
19:41 Frank G
19:40 Free Radical
19:39 hammerhead
19:36 Frank G
19:36 Deacon Blues
19:15 Besoeker
19:13 Free Radical