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2006-05-17 Iraq
Iraq Has Lower Violent Death Rate than Washington DC
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Posted by Gromosh Elminegum5705 2006-05-17 00:18|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Dont tell the MSM. Its supposed to be a QUAGMIRE!
Posted by CrazyFool 2006-05-17 01:00||   2006-05-17 01:00|| Front Page Top

#2 We all know Washington is a QUAGMIRE!
Posted by 3dc 2006-05-17 01:12||   2006-05-17 01:12|| Front Page Top

#3 This will be on no page on in any newspaper and will never make a broadcast news outlet.

The MSM's Treason should cost them however they will get off of the hook and actually get praised instead.

Im book from worst to least worst. lawyer, journalist, pedophile.
Posted by SPoD 2006-05-17 01:22|| http://sockpuppetofdoom.blogspot.com/]">[http://sockpuppetofdoom.blogspot.com/]  2006-05-17 01:22|| Front Page Top

#4 Gosh, this is kinda sorta unfair to Washington, DC because, as Crackhead exMayor Marion Barry said, outside of the killings, the crime rate ain't so bad.
Posted by SteveS 2006-05-17 02:38||   2006-05-17 02:38|| Front Page Top

#5 I once stepped out of a hotel into Washington DC for a pre-prandial evening stroll. I will never make that mistake again.
Posted by Howard UK 2006-05-17 03:52||   2006-05-17 03:52|| Front Page Top

#6 Shoddy reporting. I really hate it when a journalist doesn't do the barest of idiot checks. While the DC homicide rate is accurate, the Iraq death rate is pulled from thin air. 25.71/100,000 in a 25 million population gives 6428 deaths. Iraq Body Count project shows 12,617 civilian deaths from 20th March 2005 to 1st March 2006. That's over 50/100,000. That number includes 1,500 Iraqi army/police/gov deaths. Terrorists/insurgents killed by coalition and Iraqi forces are not included. For instance, US forces have killed or captured more than 25,000 each year for the past 2 years (dead/captured rate unknown).

What's sad is the absolute failure of the Feds to govern the nation's Capitol. Obscene amounts of federal money is thrown to the local DC government, but still it manages to pull up the rear of all quality of life measurements: crime, education, poverty, illegitimacy, welfare, corruption, life span. For comparision, New York City's 2002 murder rate was 7.3.

In 1969, the DC murder rate increased 50% and rapes tripled. Since then, while rapes have been cut in half, the murder rate has increased another 25%. Any parts of DC below sea level that can be flushed out to sea?
Posted by ed 2006-05-17 06:44||   2006-05-17 06:44|| Front Page Top

#7 whoa, whoa, whoa. So you are including traffic deaths and want to include terrorist deaths? Don't go claiming simple "idiot checks" unless you want to source it better than that.
Posted by 2b 2006-05-17 06:53||   2006-05-17 06:53|| Front Page Top

#8 2b, Those figures do not include traffic deaths. They include Iraqis killed by the terrorists, guerillas, militias and coalition forces (370), but do not include terrorists and guerillas killed by coalition and Iraqi forces. It also includes homicides listed as "criminal", which often are war related, such as kinap, ransom and murder to finance the guerillas and militias. Here is the reference I used: Iraq Body Count
Posted by ed 2006-05-17 07:20||   2006-05-17 07:20|| Front Page Top

#9 What's sad is the absolute failure of the Feds to govern the nation's Capitol. Obscene amounts of federal money is thrown to the local DC government...

Effect and cause are in that statement right there.
Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2006-05-17 07:23|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2006-05-17 07:23|| Front Page Top

#10 It's just a frigg'n blog ed. And Iraq is a war zone, where a murderous dictator was just deposed and where AQ sends every disenfranchised brainwased pawn it can muster to blow themselves up.

I lived in DC. And in two of the four quadrants, you can walk without fear in the day, and in the NW you can walk at night - so it makes it a tiny little area. Yes, I understand that it's per 100,000, but it's per 100,000 in a very small area.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. But its clear your source is little more than a blog working overtime to make the point that Iraq is worse off now than before the war. I guess if you don't mind living under a dictator and his two sons who don't mind using torture and genocide on a whim - you can make the numbers say whatever you want.

sheesh.
Posted by 2b 2006-05-17 07:43||   2006-05-17 07:43|| Front Page Top

#11 2b, IBC has the most comprehensive tally of Iraq deaths. They use press accounts as their source material, and in effect, undercount the deaths because not all dead make the papers. While they are anti Iraq war, their methodology is better than the discredited (but still quoted) Lancet study. No one else has as comprehensive a study as does IBC. Unless you can show a better source, I will refer to IBC as needed.

2b, less people are dieing in Iraq than the average under 3 years of Saddam's rule (30,000 or so a year + Iran-Iraq war dead). But my point is journalists should not print unsourced hearsay as gospel. Even if out of ignorance, propaganda is still propaganda.

As for Iraqis being better off or not, I really don't care. I care about those that threaten or kill Americans (and to a certain extension the West). In Sept 2001, that meant Saudi Arabia and Iran. In 2006, that means taking out Iran, and if need be, to take over and colonize those parts that interest us and salt the rest.
Posted by ed 2006-05-17 08:29||   2006-05-17 08:29|| Front Page Top

#12 under 30 years of Saddam's rule
Posted by ed 2006-05-17 08:31||   2006-05-17 08:31|| Front Page Top

#13 I'll stick up a bit for DC here...under Tony Williams the city is vastly improved and many of the worst crimes are now committed on the Maryland side of the border.

We have no IEDs, no mosque bombings, and no Badr Brigades. And the 'lectricity is on 24/7. So there.
Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious  2006-05-17 08:56||   2006-05-17 08:56|| Front Page Top

#14 I guess the Feds are responsible for NOLA, Balto and Atlanta too?
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-05-17 09:26||   2006-05-17 09:26|| Front Page Top

#15 the other thing thats wrong with this is youre comparing a city to an entire country. If you tossed in the suburbs, metro washingtons homicide rate is much lower. OTOH the Iraq rate includes villages, and stuff like that. Look at the homicide rate in Baghdad, its a helluva lot worse.

The situation in Baghdad sucks. Now theres some good reasons to think it will get better (the new Iraqi cabinet, more Iraqi forces, etc). But pretending that we can win this thing while Baghdad is as bad as it is now, by playing with statistics, is just the kind of foolishness thats WEAKENED the hawkish case. Pure Rummyspeak. Hopefully we can find SOMEONE to lead this country who is committed to VICTORY, but isnt interested in polyanish twisting of numbers.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2006-05-17 09:38||   2006-05-17 09:38|| Front Page Top

#16 Hey...DC! How are those restrictive gun laws working out for you?
Posted by DepotGuy 2006-05-17 09:42||   2006-05-17 09:42|| Front Page Top

#17 I call this part of the "C.O.P.S. theory". That is, Iraq has progressed from a war zone to literally a police action, moving more and more in the direction of an episode of "C.O.P.S."

Way back when, when the left was really shrieking that Iraq was a "quagmire", I proposed that the standards they had set were ridiculous.

That is, at what point has Iraq become "normal"?

Since several other countries already had violence levels far greater than Iraq, the scale only really comes into effect when you can compare Iraq with U.S. cities.

So, finally, these are the statistics that really hit home for Americans (note: stats are from 2002):

New Orleans.......53.1
Washington, D.C...45.9
Baltimore.........37.7
Atlanta...........34.9
Iraq..............25.7
Memphis...........24.7
Chicago...........22.2
Posted by Anonymoose 2006-05-17 10:07||   2006-05-17 10:07|| Front Page Top

#18 anon, why not go ask pro US Iraqi bloggers like "Iraq the Model" what they think.

The murder rate needs to get down to what it was before we went in. Security has to get good enough for economic development to pick up, and not just in Kurdistan. "things got worse, but its still not as bad as Venezuala" wont cut it.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2006-05-17 10:23||   2006-05-17 10:23|| Front Page Top

#19 I would walk around D.C. during the day without hesitation, at night I have gone out many times and never had a problem. However, I would not advise going outside at night unless you aree looking for fun.

Bagdad OTOH, I would be hard pressed to go outside regardless of hour even if my hotel was on fire.
Posted by Mike N. 2006-05-17 11:29||   2006-05-17 11:29|| Front Page Top

#20 Come on, Liberalhole, we're just pretending we're winning in Iraq, why spoil our fantasy ?
We know it's all Bush's fault, and a missile hit the Pentagon, but we want to believe in something other than Hillary is the smartest woman in the world. ROFL.
Posted by wxjames 2006-05-17 11:39||   2006-05-17 11:39|| Front Page Top

#21 LH is right about playing with numbers not leading the U.S. to victory. I just don't know who he is talking about that plays with the numbers.

LH you elude to Rummy, is that who you are refering too?

As for leaders, good luck. GWII seems about as good as it's going to get. I can't think of anone better.
Posted by Mike N. 2006-05-17 11:47||   2006-05-17 11:47|| Front Page Top

#22 Man! I really need to learn the English language.
Posted by Mike N. 2006-05-17 11:47||   2006-05-17 11:47|| Front Page Top

#23 "What's sad is the absolute failure of the Feds to govern the nation's Capitol. Obscene amounts of federal money is thrown to the local DC government...

Ahh yesssss. But DC has a baseball team now! Can't watch it on TV. But they do have a ML baseball team!

Posted by TomAnon 2006-05-17 12:04||   2006-05-17 12:04|| Front Page Top

#24 Liberal Hawk - its a per capita number. There are far fewer people living in the Iraqi countryside. To really compare, you need to understand that its a war zone, with Syria, Iran, and countries from all over the world sending money, arms and stupid people willing to blow themselves up for The Cause(TM). But then you knew that. So your point is what?

Ed - it may be the best source - but .... news reports? From AP and Reuters? Hmmm... Did they count those 35 guys that had their heads chopped off? Or what about the ones counted twice in the same article. Seems to me the Media reporting hasn't been exactly stellar and reliable. And your blog doesn't exactly seem unbiased in its tone. But hey, I guess in this world of people willing to shill for murderers, you take what you can get.

Whatever, I accept and agree with your point about propaganda.
Posted by 2b 2006-05-17 12:12||   2006-05-17 12:12|| Front Page Top

#25 The fact is, even if we accept the Liberal talking points, the death rate in Iraq is still lower than New Orleans - and the murder rate has gone down since Katrina!

Al
Posted by Frozen Al">Frozen Al  2006-05-17 12:13||   2006-05-17 12:13|| Front Page Top

#26 "Liberal Hawk - its a per capita number. There are far fewer people living in the Iraqi countryside."

Iraq is a heavily rural country, Id be surprised if the rural population isnt enough to pull down the per capita (and yes, I know thats how crime rates are calculated). Probably some cities in Iraq are pretty safe to, like in Kurdistan, and some of the towns in the Shiite area. But Baghdad is very bad.


"To really compare, you need to understand that its a war zone, with Syria, Iran, and countries from all over the world sending money, arms and stupid people willing to blow themselves up for The Cause(TM)."

Well thats the point isnt it? Its a warzone. Its STILL a warzone 3 years after the invasion. Now you can say thats failure, you can say thats whats to be expected, or you can say thats worse than it should have been, but not a failure. But trying to say (as the post seemed to imply) that its no big deal, its just like DC, is really silly.

"But then you knew that. So your point is what?"

Why dont you first tell me what the point of posting these stats was?

If you take the crime murder rate for all of DC, and compare it to the murder rate for the highest crime precinct in, say, Minneapolis, I bet the Minneapolis rate would be higher. But what woud be the point of that?
Posted by Liberalhawk 2006-05-17 13:49||   2006-05-17 13:49|| Front Page Top

#27 "LH is right about playing with numbers not leading the U.S. to victory. I just don't know who he is talking about that plays with the numbers."

well first of all this post. Ive seen other examples of cherry picking numbers, but none at hand. (and yes, I KNOW the left cherry picks to make things look worse - thats just as misleading)

"LH you elude to Rummy, is that who you are refering too?"

I dont have a specific quote to cite. So i wont get more specific at this time

"As for leaders, good luck. GWII seems about as good as it's going to get. I can't think of anone better."

Weve had enough discussions of US politics. I wont start another one now.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2006-05-17 13:52||   2006-05-17 13:52|| Front Page Top

#28 Frozen Al said it best: The fact is, even if we accept the Liberal talking points, the death rate in Iraq is still lower than New Orleans - and the murder rate has gone down since Katrina!

What does it mean - it means that NO and DC are very dangerous places, yet we don't hear the liberals ever taking off the rose colored glasses to acknowledge and apologize for the fact that their failed policies of victimization and entitlement are the cause of a bloody, 40 year quagmire.
Posted by 2b 2006-05-17 14:22||   2006-05-17 14:22|| Front Page Top

#29 Dems don't care about the murder or crime rate or even Iraq unless they can practice their famous brand of demagoguery and get the votes of places like NO and control DC.

I wouldn't pee on a Democrat if they were on fire. I will never vote for one again, ever.
Posted by SPoD 2006-05-17 14:30|| http://sockpuppetofdoom.blogspot.com/]">[http://sockpuppetofdoom.blogspot.com/]  2006-05-17 14:30|| Front Page Top

#30 .....but D.C. has midnight baseball and basketball.
Posted by Besoeker 2006-05-17 14:50||   2006-05-17 14:50|| Front Page Top

#31 Why is the whole nation of Iraq being compared with individual US cities? Wouldn't a fairer comparison be Baghdad or Fallujah or Basra vs. US cities?
Posted by eLarson 2006-05-17 14:55|| http://larsonian.blogspot.com]">[http://larsonian.blogspot.com]  2006-05-17 14:55|| Front Page Top

#32 I personally don't think you should factor in nutjob islamofascists whacked by the Military in the violent death rate.
You really should only factor in those killed by terrorist etc. to get a picture of the level of violence.
I spent three weeks roaming the streets of Baghdad in 2004, lived in Qadisiya district, stayed away from the Green Zone never felt threatened, was treated like visiting royalty by many Iraqis. I was knocked out of bed by the suicide bomb that hit the school and killed 24 kids lined up for exams (a classic example of the brave intrepid freedom fighters at work).
Another thing to consider is that the US Military loses more personnel to automobile accidents annually than are killed or wounded in Iraq.
I still think the answer to our problems in Iraq is to Nuke Damascus.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2006-05-17 15:24||   2006-05-17 15:24|| Front Page Top

#33 ok EVERYONE BITCHES ABUT MSM, QUIT BUYING THEIR SHIT OR WTCHING ASNG MAYBE THEIR ATTITUDE WILL CHANGE
Posted by Greamp Elmavinter1163 2006-05-17 17:23||   2006-05-17 17:23|| Front Page Top

#34 I can't stop. The crop circles enforce my viewing patterns. I am helpless against them.
Posted by 6 2006-05-17 18:47||   2006-05-17 18:47|| Front Page Top

#35 ya ever notice how much they look like the old test pattern graphix on Tee Vee?
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2006-05-17 19:34||   2006-05-17 19:34|| Front Page Top

#36 Greamp Elmavinter1163, dear, the CAPS LOCK key is over there on the left of your keyboard. Please tap it once, and stop shouting. My eyes are going deaf.

Thank you for your consideration.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-05-17 21:07||   2006-05-17 21:07|| Front Page Top

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