Article

2005-05-15 Syria-Lebanon-Iran

Tehran may put off resuming nuclear work

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Posted by Fred 2005-05-15 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Lol! Lebbies, you're such tools, lol!

Yewbetcha.

Posted by .com 2005-05-15 00:09|| 2005-05-15 00:09|| Front Page Top

#2 Israeli Premier Ariel Sharon voiced concern last month the world was growing accustomed to the idea Iran would build a nuclear bomb, but said he preferred economic and diplomatic pressure, rather than military action, against Iran at this stage.
Does "the world" put pressure on Isreal to give up its nuclear weapons? What about Pakistan or India?

Posted by Elmath Snealet4325 2005-05-15 00:33|| 2005-05-15 00:33|| Front Page Top

#3 ES4325---Pakistan, nutcase though it is, does not go around threatening its neighbors with nuclear destruction. Neither does India. Neither does Israel.

Iran has stated that it will destroy Israel in public statements. Take them at their word, or paddle up de-nile at your peril. The MMs are building U235 gas centrifuges underground. They have built a reactor that is capable of producing plutonium as a byproduct, which will go to bombs that will be light enough to mount on a missile.

The rest is just EU and tranzi crap. The MMs are quite capable of giving a bomb to a proxy that will plant it in a city near you. This is no game. This one is for keeps.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-05-15 02:20|| 2005-05-15 02:20|| Front Page Top

#4 Pakistan has frequently threatened India with nuclear weapons. The US did not come to India's aid, why should we lose sleep about Israel and Iran's ongoing simulcast hostilities? Why should israel be more precious to us as an ally than India? Pakistan and India came to a detente over the years. In Iran's mind, Israel is a threat and how can you fault the MMs for this type of thinking? Israel hates Iran as much as Iran hates Israel. We should stay out of it and let Israel and Iran come to a mutual self-destructive understanding as Pakistan and India have. Iran does not threaten the USA - forget the proxie crapolla. Iran would never do anything against the USA. We could crush that country like a bug. In fact, the Shiite controlled Iran-Iraq super nation is a good counter balance in our favor against Sunni extremists gathering power in Syria and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Let Iran and Israel posture against each other - how does it affect us in mainland America? It doesn't, plain and simple. I'm not going to lose sleep about Iran getting nuclear weapons. My greater worry is the AQ sympathizers in Pakistan's Intelligence service and our open Mexican border and Chavez in venezuela loving anti-American extremists of any stripe or ethnicity. Iran is Israel's threat, not ours. Keep our enemy list straight.

Posted by Elmath Snealet4325 2005-05-15 02:37|| 2005-05-15 02:37|| Front Page Top

#5 And don't forget the NAFTA sellout.

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-15 08:32|| 2005-05-15 08:32|| Front Page Top

#6 And the airport at Mina.

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-15 08:33|| 2005-05-15 08:33|| Front Page Top

#7 Pay attention,ES.If you don't see Iran as a threat to U.S. then you are still living in the Liberial pre-9/11 dream world.Iran shelters/hides/protects/supports members of Al Q.Iran shelters/hides/protects/supports Hamas and Hezb.If you do not see Iran and Islamic terrorists in general as a direct threat to U.S. then you need to change your meds.Iran already has an ICBM that can reach parts of Europe.Would have us wait and do something untill they have a missile that can reach the U.S.?Sorry can't do that,it would be to late to stop them.The MM's would just love to explode a nuke in a U.S. city.Don't believe it(fool that you are),just ask them.What do you think would happen to the entire country of Iran if they manage to pop a nuke here?The entire country would be wiped!I as well as many others will not take that chance.Terrorist have already tried to infiltrate our borders both North and South,Iran is part and parcel of the problem.

Posted by raptor 2005-05-15 09:23|| 2005-05-15 09:23|| Front Page Top

#8 ES is trolling from the first assertment that Israel poses a threat to Iran. I call bullshit and trollery

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-05-15 09:58|| 2005-05-15 09:58|| Front Page Top

#9 Tear yourself away from your Revelations reading for a minute or 2, Frank, and try to think like the Iranian mullahs who want to maintain their power. And btw, Frank, there's no question that Israel and Iran have been MUTUAL mortal enemies since the fall of the Shah. The mullahs feel that they need a nuclear arsenal as a check against Israel and against invasion by the USA per what happened to Saddam. And from the mullahs' point of view this type of defensive strategy makes sense. A political commentator -a Jewish academic, I believe - once said that a nation that does not have nuclear weapons condemns itself to being a vassal of the nations that do.

Posted by Elmath Snealet4325 2005-05-15 11:38|| 2005-05-15 11:38|| Front Page Top

#10 Really Excellent Xcretment

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-15 12:04|| 2005-05-15 12:04|| Front Page Top

#11 Elmath! Here's a picture that'll bring back memories from way way back.

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-15 12:50|| 2005-05-15 12:50|| Front Page Top

#12 Fooey! In my rush I screwed up the link to the happy picture.

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-15 12:51|| 2005-05-15 12:51|| Front Page Top

#13 Elmath, Israel _has_ had nuclear weapons for a long while, while Iran hasn't, BUT the main result has been that Iran conducts acts of war and terrorism against Israel (and the United States) (and more recently, Iraq), while Israel has not conducted such acts of terrorism against Iran.

Given the way Iran has handled not having nuclear weapons while America and Israel have (but have avoided using them against a country that sponsors terrorist acts against us) makes us not eager to see what Iran would do should they have nuclear weapons.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-05-15 13:06|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-05-15 13:06|| Front Page Top

#14 Phil, the genie is out of the bottle re: nuclear weaponry. The list is getting longer each year of nations who already own nuclear weaponry. Iran will simply join the growing list of nuclear proliferation. And like other countries, Iran is not ever going to use nuclear warfare, forget about it. Iran wants what every other nuclear armed country wants - nuclear threat capability as a defense against what it may perceive to be aggression from other countries.

You think the Mullahs are crazy? No they are your run of the mill power hungry greedy thugs. They did not last in power this long by being crazy.

As for threats against Israel, is Iran unique in this regard? Give me a break. Israel has ZERO friends in Muslim countries - they all hate Israel and that will never change. You think democracized Iraq will be any different? NO. Do you think any Arab country will pop off nuclear bombs in Telaviv? NO. Why - because they would be summarily nuked by Israel. Israelis face more realistic deadly threats from Palestinian suicide bombers than from Iran having nukes. Also Israeli soldiers will certainly face mortal danger from the extremist settlers if Sharon precipitates a civil war.

Is Pakistan so wonderful and free and stable that India does not have to fear nuclear threats from that bastion of Muslim extremism? NO. India gets on with its life and is forecast to be a world power withinb 20 years. Is India sending fighter jets to Pakistan to destroy its nuclear arsenal? No. It's moving on because it has a checkmate option to Pakistan, as Israel does to Iran.

Syria sends Sunni trouble makers to Iraq. I doubt that Iran does. What for? Shiite governed Iraq is Iran's sister country - as Iran has always stated, it's in Iran's best interests that Iraq succeeds so the US military can move out faster.

As for AQ threats to the US via getting hold of nuclear weaponry from Iran's mullahs...that makes no sense whatsoever. Why would Shiite mullahs co-operate with Sunni AQ and have a bulls-eye target painted on Tehren for the US to attack? The Shiite mullahs have as much to fear from Sunni fundamentalists as the USA.

The mullahs want to stay in power. They are sitting on very expensive real estate. They don't want to lose their "pretty" situation. They have their hands full with hassles from within; they do not need trouble from without.

I think Israel needs to stop with the shrill ultimatums to Iran and everyone else and learn to live with Iran's nuclear weaponry, just like India co-exists with Pakistan and the USA and Japan co-exist with N. Korea. Every corrupt former Soviet satellite has nuclear weaponry and Soviet scientists for sale to the highest bidder -ditto for S. Africa - pretty soon every 3rd world country will build nuclear reactors not for aggression, but for defense. We all better get used to it. Like I said the genie is out of the bottle. I believe that Iran could function as a valuable counter balance against Sunni extremists in the region, as long as we don't threaten the mullahs power - then all bets are off - if we attack the mullahs, at Israel's insistence, then the mullahs have nothing to lose. And we alienate the Iranians as a whole who will not take kindly to being invaded.

Posted by Elmath Snealet4325 2005-05-15 13:49|| 2005-05-15 13:49|| Front Page Top

#15 yep, slap the only democracy in the ME (prior to Iraq's development) in order not to disturb the thug islamonuts in power....methinks you're Henry Kissinger or Madeline Halfbright writing under an Elmath pseodonym. Throw the Jooooos away and the mullahs will leave us alone?

*spit*

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-05-15 14:06|| 2005-05-15 14:06|| Front Page Top

#16 ES has a definite problem with his history: The United States was the first to slap sanctions on India and Pakistan when each developed their bombs.They went by the wayside when the greater threat of islamist terrorism reared it's ugly head.

The US was just as clueless with India and Pakistan then as ES is now with Iran. Thus, it is ludicrous for ES to hop up and down in indignation at the prospect of the US government thinking, "Well, THAT didn't work last time, so let's try something different." The inability to handle the change in US policy and behaviour appears to be a pretty good litimus test of idiotarianism.

ES also has a consistency problem: He and his ilk are quite ready to believe that Christian fundamentalists are a threat to world peace (all with one being the President of the United States), but also hold that Muslim Funadmentalists (such as the Iranian Mullahs) are not. Making himself out to be such an expert, he cannot fail to know that Islam is the only major world religion whose scriptures explicitly endorses real, physical, metal-tearing-through-flesh WAR as a religious duty, while the others treat it (at best) as a last resort, regrettable but sometimes necessary course of action, and, (at worse) regards it as an afront and a sin against God. How naive for ES to think that he cannot trust what Christians say about their own religion, but is willing to swallow, hook, line, and sinker, everything that Muslims say about their own religion. Better get your script together, and get a refund from your undergraduate college on that comparative religion course that has so miserably informed him.

Israel, to the dismay of its own citizens, is a thorouhly secular state with religious trappings, while the Iran, to the dismay of its own citizens, is a thoroughly Theocratic state with secular trappings. Insisting that they are somehow equivalent in some way is laughable, and willful, ignorance.

The power of the United States is such that a direct frontal assault is suicidal. However, thanks to fellow travellers like yourself, ES, the liklihood of a sneak attack, via proxies, would be viable since you'd scream, 10 seconds after the mushroom cloud dissipated, that the US cannot possibly prove who did it, and thus should do NOTHING. THE MULLAHS AND KIM IL JONG CAN COUNT ON YOU SAYING THAT. Thinking, "They won't attack THAT way", and allocating our resources accordingly, is a sure-fire guarantee they WILL attack THAT way: see the Maginot line, where the reasoning was that the Germans wouldn't attack AROUND it. Surprise! Guess how they attacked.

Posted by Ptah">Ptah 2005-05-15 14:41|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2005-05-15 14:41|| Front Page Top

#17 Agreed with Ptah except I would have blasted them all after 9-11. (Just to be on the safe side.)

Posted by 3dc 2005-05-15 17:26|| 2005-05-15 17:26|| Front Page Top

#18 Attention loose cannon idiots. In 50-100 years we may have Muslim Presidents/PM's in charge of Western nations like Holland and France, perhaps even the USA, nations that come equipped with nuclear weapons. Woohoo, imagine, Muslims, through a democratic vote, may be leaders with access to Western powers' nuclear arsenal.So how do you reconcile your heehaw plans of invading Muslim nations around the world today whenever Israel shivers. How is Iran different from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Indonexsia, Pakistan, etc, etc with threats of destruction? Do you think there are any Muslim nations prepared to have a group hug with Israel anytime soon? It ain't going to happen. Israel needs to live with it. Ramming F16's down a Muslim nation's throat is not going to make Israel better loved. And each time we invade a country like we did Iraq, we need to stay and clean up the poo-poo mess we caused. And after we do that, the invaded country ends up hating us anyways, along with Israel. What's the point?

But more importantly, in the near future your ancestors, and Israel itself, will need to have diplomatic relations with First World countries whose head of states are Muslims. You think an Iranian president of France, with nukes, is going to be so-so happy that his grandpa was melted down by Great Satan and Israel in 2005?

Nuclear weaponry is here to stay and the list of 2 bit nations building an arsenal will continue to grow. Now 3rd world thug wants to end up like Saddam. So big deal. Even 3rd world thugs have the brain cells to figure out that using nukes will get the world into a big catostrophic jam. Nukes are a deterrent from thugs' view points.

Posted by Elmath Snealet4325 2005-05-15 21:14|| 2005-05-15 21:14|| Front Page Top

#19 You're asking us to trust the third world thugs of the same sort as those who managed to kill about a hundred million people over the last century to be rational?

To SUDDENLY be rational?

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aHAhahahaHa

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-05-15 21:34|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-05-15 21:34|| Front Page Top

#20 ES4325 - you're the type that volunteers for human shields for your arab overlords, but bails when the shells fall. We call them speed bumps. Why not check in your passport and join the other side now - they'll reward you better :-)

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-05-15 21:49|| 2005-05-15 21:49|| Front Page Top

#21 Elmath, the last time Western Europeans became uncomfortable with the "foreigners" in their midst, they built gas chambers in their concentration camps. Given the unfortunate rhetoric coming out of that part of the world these days, and the significantly higher level of industrialization there, what makes you think there will be any muslims left in Europe in 50 years? Surely not the idea that European civilization forbids such behaviour! (And, just for the record, both of my parents grew up in Europe, and came to the States as adults.)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-05-15 21:54|| 2005-05-15 21:54|| Front Page Top

#22 You're asking us to trust the third world thugs of the same sort as those who managed to kill about a hundred million people over the last century to be rational?
We're trusting Communist China to deal with N. Korea,a country which has nuclear weapons, for sure, fyi, in case you're waiting for the Mossad to tell you the scoop. We're also trusting Putin to negotiate with Iran though he'd love to slit our throats if he could - in fact his ilk did that to our ancestors not too long ago. The Communists have killed far more people in the century than Muslims could ever dream of and now they are our valued trade partners, our allies in the WOT. Who would have thunk? Times change.

But it's not even a question of "trust" in the mullahs. It's realizing that they love power and they are greedy and a rosy economic powerful future lies ahead for them, especially now that they've got their oil rich Shiite sister, Iraq, in the wings ready to hold hands with them against the Sunnis. What could Iran hope to gain by nuking an Israeli city? ZERO. Get serious. Stop with the fearful WWII Nazi worries - the mullahs are not Nazis. They're businessmen with a peculiar religion. The mullahs are not expansionistic like the Nazis. The mullahs only want to protect their expensive real estate from Crusaders.

Iran has much to lose by using nukes, but ZERO to gain by actually using nukes. Iran is developing nukes to protect what's theirs from hostile take over. It's a deterrent against invasion by Uncle Sam. Plain and simple.

Iran has oil - black gold - what the West and China and India need. Iran can gets its jollies in the future by making industrialized nations out bid themselves and sit back and get top price for its oil. Iran does not need nukes to hurt Israel or the the US. Its weapon of choice will be oil and the vulneranbility will not be human bodies but rather the economies of industrialized nations.

It's transparently false to suggest that Israel fears Iran's nuclear capability. Israel is worried about the stranglehold that Iran and Iraq will have on the oil spigot and the impact on its economy. Who is Sharon kidding? Israel has the nuclear capability to flatten Tehren in an insta-second. I hardly think Israel should quiver in fear of whatever the mullahs have in stock.

I would suggest that it would behoove Israel to make its peace with the Palestinians asap, without precipitating a civil war with the settlers, that is. Invading Iran would be the stupidest thing Israel and the USA could do. I still believe that Shiite Iran and Shiite Iraq could be assets to us in the WOT if we play our cards right and not back them into a corner. Shiites have good reason to fear the AQ Sunni extremists as much as we do.

Posted by Elmath Snealet4325 2005-05-15 22:38|| 2005-05-15 22:38|| Front Page Top

#23 Ok
So that's the argument you are going to use to stop sanctions in the UN?
It's an argument somebody would make just before executing a major crime. Why? First to enable the crime and second to help themselves sleep at night.

Why, this heroin I am making to sell to the little kiddies won't hurt them and won't come back to addict my children. Never. I am white as snow and just as pure while I make my millions on snow.

Posted by 3dc 2005-05-15 22:44|| 2005-05-15 22:44|| Front Page Top

#24 Let's just say that I don't share your blind faith that the Mullahs are just another batch of rational mafia dons.

I doubt that further conversation with you has a point.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-05-15 23:10|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-05-15 23:10|| Front Page Top

#25 Sanctions do not work against the criminal thugs in power. Sanctions only hurt the average Joe's on the street, who will hate the West for causing them discomfort. Tell me how sanctions are going to reach the mullah foreign policy makers and make them change their minds? How are sanctions going to win over the the Iranians to love the West more? Have we learned absolutely nothing from the infamous food-for-oil disaster in Iraq and how that idiotic scheme caused the Iraqis to resent us, how the ordinary non-Baathist folks suffered? Sanctions do not work.

Iran will say - stick your sanctions where the sun don't shine. We'll only sell oil to China and India as long as the EU and the USA embargo our rugs. And by the way, 3 years from now when Bush is gone, don't expect to buy oil at a mere $50 a barrel. That's the price for China and India, our pals. For the EU, the USA, Israel it will be $100 per barrel. And our Shiite sister, Iraq, will support us on those differentiated price points, Western morons.

It's laughable that you think even doozy Americans will buy into this sanctions against Iran schtick when everyone knows we had been PAYING N. Korea $ not to use its nukes against LA or San Franscisco. Like who is not going to see some unfairness in the way we treat Iran as opposed to N. Korea with its wack job leader and the para-military Mafia guy running Pakistan?

Israel will be doing business with Iran for a long time to come - not directly - but it will need access to oil from Iran and Iraq in the future. Their stores will last way beyond what's squirting out of Saudi sands. It's not smart for Israel to piss off the Iranians now with chest thumping, macho F16's routines. Saddam was an unsympathetic despot. Iran has put forward a good front for the world. Its politicians speak in a polished fashion, most are British educated. Iranians even look physically more like Caucasians, more like us. Iranians are definitely more easy to "empathize" with than your stereotypical swarthy looking Arabs.

Israel and Iran have a common enemy - Syrian and Saudi extremists. They should work that angle better and forget the ridiculous chest beating. Israel does not look sympathetic while they still are dragging their feet about following through on their promise to help build a Palestinian state. Giving the Palestinians their own turf without silly games about no contiguous land tracts would defuse alot of the Sunni AQ stirred up hatred against Israel.

Posted by Elmath Snealet4325 2005-05-15 23:32|| 2005-05-15 23:32|| Front Page Top

#26 Fine if sanctions won't work then the UN can show its balls and go in with guns blazing. If it can't or won't it just proves that it has less worth than a pile of pig shit.

Posted by 3dc 2005-05-15 23:49|| 2005-05-15 23:49|| Front Page Top

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