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2004-05-14 Iraq-Jordan

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Posted by Fred 2004-05-14 10:29:38 AM|| || Front Page|| [11137 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The command structure completely failed in this brigade.

From the 1-star in charge all the way dow the the Sgt that was the squad leader, there better be a whole pile of "Dereliction of Duty" Courts Martial lined up, or at a minimum, Article 15 proceedings.

Clean house. Starting with the Unit Commander.

Then build a temporary prison nearby in a tent city, and dynamite Abu Ghriab.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-05-14 11:14:41 AM|| 2004-05-14 11:14:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 He also shot down her claim that the soldiers were ordered to abuse the prisoners, and said Graner warned him not to tell higher-ups about how they were being treated. "Our command would have slammed us," Sivits said.

this could be very important.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-05-14 11:17:33 AM|| 2004-05-14 11:17:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 this could be very important.

In sentencing.

You'll have a hard time convinving me Karpinski didn't know what was going on nor did everybody inbetween.

Line 'em up. Drum 'em out.

Posted by Mr. Davis 2004-05-14 11:20:21 AM|| 2004-05-14 11:20:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 How big was the prison? How many guards were there? Karpinksi may have been negligent (and BTW, some folks on the intell side may also have been negligent) but its not clear at this point that anyone above Sgt Graner knew.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-05-14 11:23:34 AM|| 2004-05-14 11:23:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 but its not clear at this point that anyone above Sgt Graner knew????

It seems to me that if it was only as high as Grainer, then some of the junior officers were derelict in that they should have been performing periodic "surprise" inspections. The fact that it was occuring in the middle of the night means those officers were not very disciplined.

Posted by BigEd 2004-05-14 11:33:44 AM|| 2004-05-14 11:33:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 LH: Read my posts from yesterda for the answers.

Posted by 11A5S 2004-05-14 11:40:02 AM|| 2004-05-14 11:40:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 BigEd. Exactamundo. None of the company grade officers were getting their sorry asses out of bed at 0200 to inspect. If Graner et al knew that they might be checked, none of this would have ever happened.

Posted by 11A5S 2004-05-14 11:41:41 AM|| 2004-05-14 11:41:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 What, the NCO's didn't know? Or knew and didn't tell the officers? How could these perverts keep this quiet for what appears to be months and the Pentagon couldn't keep the photos under wraps?

And how did the photos leak out right during the height of combat? I'd love to see those guys swing from the yardarm.

Posted by Mr. Davis 2004-05-14 11:48:43 AM|| 2004-05-14 11:48:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 #3, I'm not sure Karpinski could find the john without a map, much less find out what was going on. I saw her on TV & she was whining that the nasty people at Abu Ghraib wouldn't salute or take her orders seriously 'cause she's a girl ...

I know some outstanding female Army officers who would have put up with that sh*t for about minus 3 seconds before they would have drug those soldiers and their junior officers into line. Actually, they would call in the officers first, and when those guys had a thorough enough tonguelashing, they in turn would go down to get their units in order.

In fact, two of the battalions under Karpinski have been stellar, by all reports, because the LtCOLs who ran them held them to proper standards.

West Point cadets are taught that there are 4 answers you can give when a superior questions your behavior:

Yes, sir.
No, ma'am.
I don't know, sir.

and ...

NO EXCUSE, MA'AM.

I know 22 yr olds who take more personal responsibility for their actions than Karpinski seems to be doing. Pfah.

#1, I'm with you on the cure here.

Posted by True, true 2004-05-14 12:47:19 PM|| 2004-05-14 12:47:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 interesting points, all.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-05-14 12:48:55 PM|| 2004-05-14 12:48:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Personal anecdote: one of my ex-employees, "Amy", a mid -30's woman who was a Captain in the Army and was a company commander of an MP unit prior to leaving the Army to prep for medical school (which she's doing now). Great woman, easy to work with, fun, gentle --

-- and sandpaper for a tongue if you crossed her. And the sort of air of authority, integrity and responsibility about her to back up every word.

Knowing Amy, she would have been up at 0200, and 0400, and every hour in-between, and would have made short work with the likes of Garner and England. Their asses would have been in shape or outta there.

As I said, great woman. Personally I wouldn't cross her. Nope, nope, not me, nope, never.

Posted by Steve White 2004-05-14 1:33:49 PM|| 2004-05-14 1:33:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 So this Abu Ghraib story is turning into a gigantic orgy story with some forced iraqui players?

Posted by Anonymous4602 2004-05-14 1:36:14 PM|| 2004-05-14 1:36:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Memo: To Junior Personnel, Female-types
From: Sgt Mom
Re: Respect From Your Male Peers
Ladies, if you want to get the reputation for being the town bike, there is no faster and more effecient way to do it than to conduct your sexual life with the same personnel as your work life.... especially if cameras are involved.
And now you have an international reputation--- your parents must be so proud.

Posted by Sgt. Mom 2004-05-14 1:47:07 PM|| [www.sgtstryker.com] 2004-05-14 1:47:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 what happened to mhw's comment?

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-05-14 1:55:31 PM|| 2004-05-14 1:55:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I think we can all agree here that Lynndie England is one seriously messed-up, low-class strumpet.

She'll probably end up working as one of Bill Clinton's interns.

Posted by Mike 2004-05-14 2:49:48 PM|| 2004-05-14 2:49:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 "Then build a temporary prison nearby in a tent city, and dynamite Abu Ghriab". from OldSpook That's a really important thing to do. I always thought it was weird that the US was using Abu G.

Yeah, Sgt. Mom--and her child is going to be really proud of "mommy " too.

I would dearly love to give whiny Karpinski a talking-to. (Or maybe Steve White's ex-employee "Amy" could do the honors.) If you can't take the heat, get the heck outta the kitchen!

Anybody wondering why Kerry is to quick to defend the orgy kooks? Hmmm. Lots and lots and lots and lots of pics. Leaked at a critical juncture in the WOT. Hmmm.
At least GW and Rummy turned it on its ear! Ha!

Posted by ex-lib 2004-05-14 5:50:57 PM|| 2004-05-14 5:50:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Yes, sir. No, ma'am. I don't know, sir.
and ... NO EXCUSE, MA'AM.

Navy, it's "I don't know, but I'll find out."

Old Spook is right. Regardless of whether they checked up or not, were in the same prison or ten miles away, it's still the chain-of-command's responsibility. (I was going to use 'leadership', but there wasn't, and isn't, any).

Posted by Pappy 2004-05-14 11:45:50 PM|| 2004-05-14 11:45:50 PM|| Front Page Top

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