Article

2004-05-04 Fifth Column

French TV to show images of US helicopter killing Iraqis

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Posted by CrazyFool 2004-05-04 2:12:09 PM|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Old video, what this story doesn't mention is that they had watched them hiding weapons in a field before they received permission to fire. It was on ABC and other networks some time ago.

Posted by Steve 2004-05-04 2:19:20 PM|| 2004-05-04 2:19:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Here is the link to ABC story:
The video opens with the helicopter tracking a man in a pickup truck north of Baghdad on Dec. 1, one day after the 4th Infantry Division engaged in the bloodiest battles with Iraqi insurgents since the end of major combat. The pilots watch as the man pulls over and gets out to talk to another man waiting by a larger truck.
"Uh, big truck over here," one of the pilots is heard saying. "He's having a little powwow."
The pickup driver looks around, then reaches into his vehicle, takes out a tube-shaped object that appears to be about 4 or 5 feet long, and runs away from the road into a field. He drops the object in the field and heads back to the trucks.
"I got a guy running throwing a weapon," one of the pilots says. Retired Gen. Jack Keane, an ABCNEWS consultant who viewed the tape, said the object looked like a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, "or something larger than a rifle."
The pilots check in with their operational commander, who is monitoring the situation. When they tell him they are sure the man was carrying a weapon, he tells them: "Engage. Smoke him."

Posted by Steve 2004-05-04 2:27:33 PM|| 2004-05-04 2:27:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Yeah but will the full context be explained on French TV? Doubt it.

Posted by Rafael 2004-05-04 2:43:42 PM|| 2004-05-04 2:43:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 So the French are going to use an edited video as evidence of US atrocities?

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-05-04 2:52:30 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-05-04 2:52:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Our steadfast French Allies......

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-05-04 3:07:03 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:07:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 i don't know about you guys but i realy don't give a shit what the french or any other euros besides the british think

Posted by smokeysinse 2004-05-04 3:11:38 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:11:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 When is the coalition going to start dropping counter-propaganda leaflets over France?

AP - you free for some missions across the Channel?!

Posted by Bulldog 2004-05-04 3:12:51 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:12:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Mohammed al-Dura redux. Fortunately the truth is already out.

Posted by someone 2004-05-04 3:14:25 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:14:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Why not take the mortar tube those idiots were setting up and drop a few rounds onto Canal Plus?

Posted by ed 2004-05-04 3:16:52 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:16:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 I think that helicopter crew has a tough question to answer: How come they didn't get all three guys on the first pass? Those bullets aren't free, you know.

Posted by Matt 2004-05-04 3:23:42 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:23:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Ask yourselves whay the French hate you. Answer: their minds are being poisoned day and night by dishonest media.

Posted by JFM 2004-05-04 3:35:25 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:35:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Not to worry folks, after John Friggin Kerry is elected the French will once again accept us into the community of Nations.

Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) 2004-05-04 3:38:10 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:38:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 "If they run, they're terrorists. If they stand still, they're WELL-DISCIPLINED terrorists..."

Posted by mojo 2004-05-04 3:38:12 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:38:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 "....Army officials acknowledged that the 30 mm cannons used by the Apache gunners were far bigger than what was needed to kill the men, but said it is the smallest weapon the Apaches have".
Good stuff. Need to know basis.

Posted by rhodesiafever 2004-05-04 3:39:36 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:39:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 JFM, wouldn't you say that it's a case of the French seeing what they want to see and what conforms to their own warped view of what Americans are "really" like?
If it were a film about Chief Wiggles distributing toys to Iraqi children or American soldiers building schools and hospitals for the Iraqs, it just wouldn't be on French TV at all.

Posted by Jen 2004-05-04 3:48:00 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-04 3:48:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Canal Plus is the TV station whose muppets were distilling antiamericanism on 9/12 (on 9/11 their
program had been cancelled for special news about the events).

Posted by JFM 2004-05-04 3:49:07 PM|| 2004-05-04 3:49:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Bulldog asks "When is the coalition going to start dropping counter-propaganda leaflets over France?"

My suggestion is for US TV to show Greenpeace's "Rainbow Warrior" pulling into Le Havre and being greeted by throngs of admirers on a small flotilla of private and commercial boats. Oops! I forgot that France sank the "Rainbow Warrior" years ago. My bad.

Posted by Tibor 2004-05-04 4:00:54 PM|| 2004-05-04 4:00:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/000957.html
The video link Caution 8MB video.

http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/000880.html
Another commenter quoted a comment on a different site (I googled but couldn't find the original)

By the way, the unit that did that is right next door to me. I also fly the same aircraft over here so here's the real story. The weapon they're dropping in the field is a shoulder fired heat seeking missile. There were serveral more found in the vehicle along with RPG's. This is the same weapon that took down a Chinook a few months ago and killed 31 soldiers. The Apaches were blacked out (no lights on) so that's why the terroists thought the had a chance to ditch the weapons and get away with it. They had been followed for some time and ground units were enroute, however when you see someone go for one of the only weapons that can take out your 40 million dollar helicopter along with you, you pull the trigger. Although I wouldn't hand out a tape like that, they completely did the right thing.

Posted by ed 2004-05-04 4:04:38 PM|| 2004-05-04 4:04:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Ed, I am not a gunship pilot but as soon as I saw them unloading a tubilar weapons that looked like an RPG and they were in a restricted area I would feel mor than comfortable pulling the trigger on them. That guy let them live longer than I would have, MUCH longer. It would be nice to have the ground pounders capture/interrogate them but once they started unloading all bets are off. BTW I was never taught how to arrest the enemy on the battlefield!

Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) 2004-05-04 4:21:34 PM|| 2004-05-04 4:21:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 To paraphrase Jinx the Cat, "I shot those meeces to pieces." {poof}

Look closely, is there an "ABC" logo in the lower left hand corner of the screen? If so, how does Canal Plus explain that?

Posted by BigEd 2004-05-04 4:24:05 PM|| 2004-05-04 4:24:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 JFM - So all of this (slanted or not) is just so much preaching-to-the-converted anyway, eh?

Posted by eLarson 2004-05-04 4:25:45 PM|| 2004-05-04 4:25:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Sarge, I am not a pilot either. The pilot's comment is from the link. BTW, I think the helicopter pilots would have an even harder time trying to arrest anybody.

Posted by ed 2004-05-04 4:30:07 PM|| 2004-05-04 4:30:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 The real story is that the French media weasels represent this as some kind of new revelation when in fact that tape has been shown all over the world and the internet for months.
What's the mating call of the Euro-media? Goebbel-goebbel.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-05-04 4:51:44 PM|| 2004-05-04 4:51:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Jen

It is difficult to say. There has ever been some roots of antiamericanism in France (it became a force during your Civil War) but except for the far left it was not heinous, however with the building of the EU the centrists and moderate left who were more or less friendly (or not overly hostile) became enthused with trhe idea of an EU challenging the US. At the same time people were unhappy about conceding France's money to Francfort and giving power to unelected powers in Brussels. It was at this point that antiamericanism in the media became really agressive, my theory being that the French elites needed a big bad wolf to hose the EU into the throats of French citizens. The news is that while antiamericanism was mostly a parisian phenomena, latest polls show that differnce between Paris and rest of France has drastically dwindled, I think that this is due to non-parisian papers being bought by parisian groups.

In the weeks who followed 9/11 there was a recess. The best example was that the General Secretary of the Communist Party calling for a minute of silence a few weeks later (many communists were unhappy about it, but it was still a symbol). Then quite soon, antiamericanism in the media returned far more violent than ever as if the elites felt they had to retain control. But in the muppet show of Canal Plus there no three weeks lull, they were spreading hate on 9/12.

There are a good nimeber of people in France who are still friends to America but mediatic pressure is so strong that it is about as difficult to say it in public than having a KKK bumperstick. A number of them confessed their "sin" to me but it was ever a face-to-face, no witness talk.

However if you need the New York Time or CNN dishonest and manipulative wait to see the french press.

Posted by JFM 2004-05-04 4:55:00 PM|| 2004-05-04 4:55:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 JFM, I can imagine--having lived and visited France several times.
The language difference doesn't help things.
I just ordered a book on the "French problem" and there's another one coming out this summer.
I am desperately trying to understand what the deep divide between our 2 countries is about and if France can be "saved," because I think the road they're going down is perilous for them more even than for America.

Posted by Jen 2004-05-04 5:04:08 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-04 5:04:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Jen

I would recommend you Jean Francois Revel's book "Antimericanism". It has been published in English. It is from a French writing for French and dispelling myths or refuting calumnias about America so you get a kind of insider view.

First problem in France is: Most schools belong to state and thus people wanting to be teachers (and being able to mold young minds) are likely to be left wing.

Second problem: journal "Le Monde" adquired an enormous credibility capital from its creation in 1944. Today it has fallen into the hands of a band of ex-trotskists (well, they are supposed to be ex-trotskists) and "Le Monde" no longer deserves its reputation but inertia makes people continue buying it and inertia plus a part of threats and networking make it remain central to
the French media (ie TVs take it as reference when making the TV news).

Third problem: All the failed singers and makers of movies without spectators need the public accepting to pay taxes in order to preserve French culture against the eeeeeeevil American productions.

Fourth: An unfortunate tradition dating from the Affaire Dreyfus of militantic journalism: journalist doesn't report facts and let public judge instead he actively tries to persuade it even if it means distorting or hiding facts.

Solution: Disembark in Normandy, JDAM "Le Monde", fire most of the teachers and de-indoctrinate the French. You see, once you reeducate him, a French can make a passable American. After all the quintessential redneck was a such Lejeune. ;-)

Posted by JFM 2004-05-04 5:44:05 PM|| 2004-05-04 5:44:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Interesting observations, JFM--Merci!
I have Revel's book and have read most of it.
It told me alot about how the French think about America, but there are still some gaps...
so I am looking forward to these next 2 books.
Of course, there is always the old French romantic love of Communisme, as well, which explains a lot.
That and a deep sense of national shame about both Vichy and their behavior in their colonies like Algeria for which they feel collective guilt.
France is a very complex, complicated country.
Mais, au fond, j'en ai mars! LOL! Assez!

Posted by Jen 2004-05-04 5:49:48 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-05-04 5:49:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 I am desperately trying to understand what the deep divide between our 2 countries is

Jen, the deep divide can be traced to the foundation of America and modern France. Today's France is a continuation of Napoleonic times. Napoleon Bonaparte incrementally garnered power for himself, eventually making himself "emperor", and ultimately creating a ruling elite. Chiraq, for example, is an extension of this elite.

America took a different route: power is balanced and not concentrated, and big government is generally looked down upon. It seems, from very early on the two countries embarked on diverging paths. In my opinion, it will only get worse.

Posted by Rafael 2004-05-04 5:54:24 PM|| 2004-05-04 5:54:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Some interesting books you might be interested in:

DANGEROUS DE-LIAISONS
By Jean-Marie Colombani and Walter Wells

THE FRENCH BETRAYAL OF AMERICA
By Kenneth R. Timmerman

"In Dangerous De-Liaisons ... Wells engages in a sophisticated back-and-forth dialogue with Jean-Marie Colombani, editor-in-chief of Le Monde." Source.

Posted by Rafael 2004-05-04 6:06:58 PM|| 2004-05-04 6:06:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Who's the next country on our list for tonight? I'm saying let's take on NorWay! Yes!

Posted by Shipman 2004-05-04 6:09:43 PM|| 2004-05-04 6:09:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Besides the obvious biases of the French Left, still humiliated at the defeat of their allies in the Cold War, there is a substantial though more subtle strain of anti-Americanism on the French Right.
Some of this is residue of the millenium old conflict with Britain, in which the French have normally been the losers despite their initial success at Hastings.
In this long view, the US is simply a monstrous extension of Albion Perfide.

There is also a more modern tradition of resentment that began with the Eisenhower administration's refusal to intervene on behalf of the besieged French army at Dien Bien Phu in 1954.
Later, in 1956, the US joined the Soviet enemy in forcing a humiliating withdrawal on the combined Anglo-French forces after their invasion of the Suez Canal Zone.
To many in France, this was a signal of American support for Arab nationalism and a crucial boost for the Algerian rebels just as French forces were getting a grip on them.
There was also resentment at the Anglo-American nuclear monopoly in NATO, enhanced by the perception that the US was unreliable, and soon broken for nationalistic reasons.

This established habits of thought that may well explain the lack of pro-American sentiment on the political right in France and its consequent failure to mount an effective resistance to the Islamo-Red alliance that is quickly devouring French society.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-05-04 6:32:52 PM|| 2004-05-04 6:32:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Imbeciles!!! It's not only the French...

Posted by Anonymous4775 2004-05-09 5:35:45 PM|| 2004-05-09 5:35:45 PM|| Front Page Top

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