Article

2006-04-08 India-Pakistan

F-16 ahead in race for Indian Air Force order

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by john 2006-04-08 14:27|| || Front Page|| [7 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 oh ace that'll really hack the french off if they buy f-16's

Posted by ShepUK 2006-04-08 15:40|| 2006-04-08 15:40|| Front Page Top

#2 Sweet revenge indeed! Brand spanking new or re-manufactured?

Posted by RD 2006-04-08 15:58|| 2006-04-08 15:58|| Front Page Top

#3 There's nothing quite like that "New Fighter-Jet smell"...

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2006-04-08 16:19|| 2006-04-08 16:19|| Front Page Top

#4 RD-
Thinking they'd be rebuilds - we have a couple wings worth sitting out at DMAFB, and they can be easily brought up to current standards.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2006-04-08 16:47|| 2006-04-08 16:47|| Front Page Top

#5 The F-16-CPO (Certified Previously Owned) A full 1,000,000 km or 2 war warranty, whichever comes first.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-04-08 17:26|| 2006-04-08 17:26|| Front Page Top

#6 The fighters will be new.

As with previous Indian orders, the first few squadrons will probably arrive assembled but majority of aircraft will be CKD kits - the planes will be assembled at Hindustan Aviation in Bangalore - where the Su-30 MKIs, the various Migs, the Jaguars, the Hawk trainers etc are already being built.

Posted by john 2006-04-08 18:10|| 2006-04-08 18:10|| Front Page Top

#7 According to the HAL website
Today, HAL has got 16 Production Units and 9 Research and Design Centres spread out in seven different locations in India. Its product track record consists of 12 types of Aircraft from in-house R & D and 14 types by license production. HAL has so far produced about 3,550 aircraft, 3,600 Engines and overhauled over 8,150 Aircraft and 27,300 Engines.

Posted by john 2006-04-08 18:13|| 2006-04-08 18:13|| Front Page Top

#8 Not rebuilds. Lockheed offered the "Block 70". It doesn't exist yet, but is most likely a variant of the Block 60 the UAE flies (conformal fuel tanks like Israeli F-16I and Block 60, ASEA radar, AIM9-X). I'm sure the USAF wished they had a few.
Lockheed Martin offers 'exclusive' F-16 fighters

I'm a bit surprised the F-16 is leading since Pakistan flies the F-16A and is receiving Block 50s. Might get a little confusing in an air war. In addition while the IAF already flies the Mirage 2000, it lost out on the tech race and the assembly line is closing. The Rafale is at least 50% more expensive than the F-16 and has less capability. The Typhoon is at least twice the price of the F-16. I know little of the Mig-35 except that it has thrust vectoring and that if its avionics is anything like the Mig-29, stay away from it.

Posted by ed 2006-04-08 18:18|| 2006-04-08 18:18|| Front Page Top

#9 They appear to do licensed manufacturing of certain types of aircraft as well as just assembly.

Link to website

Posted by john 2006-04-08 18:19|| 2006-04-08 18:19|| Front Page Top

#10 that if its avionics is anything like the Mig-29, stay away from it.

If the Mig is chosen, the avionics will be western.
This is the route India took with the Su-30.
The plane may be Russian but there are Israeli, French and Indian avionics and weapons.

Posted by john 2006-04-08 18:22|| 2006-04-08 18:22|| Front Page Top

#11 Typo: AESA radar.

Not mentioned in the article is the F-18E/F that was also offered.

Which western weapons are the Indian Su-30s carrying?

Posted by ed 2006-04-08 18:45|| 2006-04-08 18:45|| Front Page Top

#12 It carries the Israeli Litening targeting pod.
The French MICA missile is supposed to be integrated with the MKI soon.
This was a design consideration for the MKI - the ability to field non Russian weapons.
They already field the French Magic-2 on their Mig-29s.

Posted by john 2006-04-08 19:22|| 2006-04-08 19:22|| Front Page Top

#13 Also driving this is the manufacturing agreements between MDBA and Bharat Dynamics for the full range of MDBA missiles.
Recently read that Bharat Dynamics had manufactured more than 30 000 Milan anti-tank missiles for the Indian army.

Posted by john 2006-04-08 19:38|| 2006-04-08 19:38|| Front Page Top

#14 This is a few years old

The Su-3OMKI supersonic multi-role two-seat fighter is the first Russian combat aircraft ever to be designed in conformity with the requirements of a foreign customer. Most observers agree that the time taken by India in defining and developing
the MKI version was rather well spent, as it took great pains to incorporate several technologies from the Su-37 technology demonstrator and mate it with the Su-30 airframe. These include:
> Digital Fly-By-Wire controls, which have now become the industrial standard for latest generation fighter aircraft;

> Aerodynamic configuration of an unstable longitudinal triplane, with fully movable canard surfaces;
> Rear-facing radar in the tail boom to provide warning of hostile aircraft approaching from the rear quadrants and the option of rearward-firing R-73 missiles;

> Single-axis Thrust Vector Control (TVC), that allows the axisymmetric vectoring nozzles to swivel 15 0 in the vertical plan to provide differential thrust control. Depending on the manoeuvere to be performed, engine deflection can be synchronous with or differ from horizontal stabiliser deflection. The Su-30MKI is the world's first (and so far only) operational combat aircraft to feature TVC. The above mentioned integral aerodynamic configuration combined with TVC results in what is referred to as "practically unlimited manoeuvrability," enabling the MKI to take sharp turns without any AoA (Angle of Attack) limits, as well as unique TO and landing characteristics;

> Phazotron phased array radar with increased search range, ground mapping function and compatibility with all Russian and some Western air-air and air-grwund weaponry. The radar is integrated with the fire control system for day-night, all-weather interception of hostile targets. The radar ensures a 20m resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance of up to 400km, while smaller targets can be detected at a distance of 120km. The system can simultaneously track up to 15 air targets while engaging four of them;

> Modified aerial refuelling probe: The air refuelling system enables combat missions of up to 10h duration, with a range of 8,000km at a cruise altitude of 11,000- 13,000m,

> High speed datalink providing ground control precise information about the state of the aircraft and its weapons.

In addition to the above, the specific Indian modifications to the avionics and other systems, which India developed on its own with cooperation from France and Israel, are as follows:

> A new indigenous ECM package developed by the Indian Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) with technical support from Israel;

> A state-of-the-art "glass" cockpit with a total of six Liquid Crystal Displays (LCDs), including two multi-functional
displays and a HUD developed together with then Sextant Avionique of France (now part of Thales);

> All software controls (including the mission computer and navigation systems) have been developed in India;

> An open avionics architecture allowing for the integration of a wide choice of air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles of various origin. The Su-30MKI has a total of twelve weapons stations. No formal plans have been announced, but in addition to the standard Russian range likely AAM candidates include the French MICA and the Israeli Derby and Python IV. It is also expected that the Su-30MKI will eventually receive the air-launched version of the BrahMos cruise missile currently being developed in cooperation between Indian and Russian industries;

> A quick response auto pilot operative during combat engagements. It provides "hands free" capability to the pilot to stay focused on targeting and weapons deployment.

Posted by john 2006-04-08 20:04|| 2006-04-08 20:04|| Front Page Top

#15 The Su-30MKI is the world's first (and so far only) operational combat aircraft to feature TVC. The above mentioned integral aerodynamic configuration combined with TVC results in what is referred to as "practically unlimited manoeuvrability," enabling the MKI to take sharp turns without any AoA (Angle of Attack) limits, as well as unique TO and landing characteristics..

Perhaps someone in the know could explain why the Su-30MKI "unlimited" Angle of Attack wouldn't produce high speed stalls, loss of the fly in flying, in other words.

I'm guessing that the Su-30MKI's ability to "skid vector" is at the low end of the airspeed limits for the aircraft.

Posted by RD 2006-04-08 20:32|| 2006-04-08 20:32|| Front Page Top

#16 Here is a short video clip (850 kb) of the Su-30 performing TVC turns

Posted by john 2006-04-08 20:57|| 2006-04-08 20:57|| Front Page Top

#17 iow, At relative slow speeds the Su-30's high thrust to weight ratio along with the canard and vectoring nozzles can radically manoeuvre, but about cruise or high speed abilities?

Posted by RD 2006-04-08 21:22|| 2006-04-08 21:22|| Front Page Top

#18 btw john thanks for all the info:

grrr
but *what* about cruise or high speed abilities?

Posted by RD 2006-04-08 21:23|| 2006-04-08 21:23|| Front Page Top

23:51 Barbara Skolaut
23:23 Shieldwolf
23:21 Glolung Graving3413
22:09 RWV
21:46 Dave D.
21:40 N guard
21:37 Darrell
21:36 JerseyMike
21:24 ryuge
21:23 RD
21:22 RD
21:00 RD
20:58 RD
20:57 john
20:47 Zenster
20:44 Zenster
20:40 WTF!
20:39 Nimble Spemble
20:35 Pappy
20:34 Zenster
20:32 RD
20:14 RWV
20:14 Barbara Skolaut
20:10 RWV