Article

2003-04-11 Iraq

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Posted by Steve White 2003-04-11 12:55 am|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 It might be just rumours but these rumours do give a lot of question marks after the agreement talks in Belfast. There are a lot of rumours lately that the US has made some secret deals with France, Germany and Russia about the fate of Saddam. In short it is said that the quick capitulation of Baghdad and the absence of major Iraqi leading members are related to these agreements. Somehow it is very fishy, where are these guys especially the Iraqi minister of information Muhammed Said Al Sahaf who appeared regularly on the media from Baghdad and all the Iraqi troops vanishing into thin air? What made France, Germany and Russia suddenly turn to moderate their voice against the war in their fast U-turn? Well, I guess the backdoor deals back there in Belfast where effective.

Posted by Murat 2003-04-11 04:09:07|| 2003-04-11 04:09:07|| Front Page Top

#2 Jeez, Murat, you don't suppose that the ass kicking we've given the Tikrit Thugocracy had any thing to do with the change of heart? Framany and Gerance realize that they are on the outside looking in, and not dollar one will be going their way for post war work.

The only back door ~~deal~~ job is the one that Turkey is going to get from Framany and Gerance, no EU membership, and the U.S. no longer considers Turkey a reliable partner in the region. You are SO SCREWED.

Posted by Chuck 2003-04-11 07:33:12|| [blog.simmins.org] 2003-04-11 07:33:12|| Front Page Top

#3 Murat may be not far off the mark. I heard today (Maybe misinformation) that amnesty has been given to former gov't workers if they work in the new gov't.

Posted by George 2003-04-11 07:35:28|| 2003-04-11 07:35:28|| Front Page Top

#4 George, sure, that makes some sense. The water dept., the garbage pickups, the post office, etc. all need to run. And some police were after real criminals (the ones Saddam let out a few months ago). No need to exclude every government employee just for having worked for the government.

Posted by Chuck 2003-04-11 08:04:03|| [blog.simmins.org] 2003-04-11 08:04:03|| Front Page Top

#5 "I am XX years old, but my life just started today." -- Seems to be a common saying. Anyone with Middle East experience know if this is a common idiom?

Posted by Dar 2003-04-11 08:15:51|| 2003-04-11 08:15:51|| Front Page Top

#6 Chuck, sure itâs not deniable that Tikrit got a lot of kicking, but does that explain vanishing troops into thin air, where are the prominent Baath Iraqis, I guess all of them where hit by a smart bomb leaving no trace of them.

You have a wrong notion on the word partner, you say partner and mean a lapdog. Not all of us want to play the blare of Bush (Tony Blare)

Posted by Murat 2003-04-11 08:30:05|| 2003-04-11 08:30:05|| Front Page Top

#7 You crack me up, Murat.

"the US has made some secret deals with France, Germany and Russia about the fate of Saddam" -- yeah, bullet or noose, let's make a deal!

"the quick capitulation of Baghdad and the absence of major Iraqi leading members are related to these agreements" -- I suspect it had more to do with air supremacy, columns of tanks, and that choice of bullet or noose.

"What made France, Germany and Russia suddenly turn to moderate their voice against the war" -- perhaps the fact that the worst fears about the war have started to subside. No big terrorist attacks at home, no WMD use (at least yet), no longterm seige, etc. Oh yes, they also want a piece of the action now that it's clear to them that victory is at hand.

Really, Murat, your conspiracy theories amuse me. The truth is simply that everybody is now just looking out for their own interests -- just like they always were. Good luck on that EU thing!

Posted by Tom 2003-04-11 08:36:05|| 2003-04-11 08:36:05|| Front Page Top

#8 Murat: "vanishing troops into thin air"?

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the terms "bombs" as in "we dropped lots of big bombs on them" and "hiding" as in "gone AWOL and into hiding to save their own lives".

Posted by Tom 2003-04-11 08:48:08|| 2003-04-11 08:48:08|| Front Page Top

#9 Never blame conspiracy when other factors better explain the situation. Thomas Sowell said that he doubts that the war has gone according to plan. He doubts the Army expected Baghdad to fall on the 21st day of the war. I do too, and I expect even CENTCOM is surprised. Pleased, but surprised.

The French, German, Russian and Chinese contracts are dead, and they know it. The war is all but won, and they are the ones left holding the bag. That is the explaination for the about face.

Posted by Ben 2003-04-11 09:42:44|| 2003-04-11 09:42:44|| Front Page Top

#10 Murat: You have a wrong notion on the word sarcasm, you say sarcasm and mean irony.

Still no reply?

Posted by michael 2003-04-11 10:48:47|| 2003-04-11 10:48:47|| Front Page Top

#11 Read somewhere yesterday (can't remember where, and can't find it) that someone had reported Iraqis on the beach at Latakia, in Syria. Sounds a bit far-fetched, but possible. Who knows what was actually in that Russian convoy? If true, I'm sure Latakia will be visited by our CIA and Delta Force in the very near future.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-04-11 11:01:11|| 2003-04-11 11:01:11|| Front Page Top

#12 Murat - your starting to sound like the belgians -did thier warnings have the desired affect? Must suck to be at the mercy of tiny belgian...lololol

Posted by Dan 2003-04-11 11:11:27|| 2003-04-11 11:11:27|| Front Page Top

#13 Guys, pardon me for jumping in uninvited..after lurking here many days, reading, learning, and especially laughing at some of the comments..I have to ask a question about some of this Kirkuk commentary....to wit--Turkey doesnt want the Kurds in Kirkuk....I thought Kirkuk was a Kurdish area and homeland at one time....so, the Kurds cant come back into their "country" because the Turds..er, uh Turks dont want them to? Excuse me?
They--the Turks are afraid that the Kurds in Turkey will get the idea that they too can have a peaceful existence in their own homelands? With the human rights record of the Turks, seems like a reasonable thing for the Kurds to want out of there post haste....and the Turks dont want them to go where they would be free? Sorry, I must be missing something here....
Why cant the Kurds do some self-determining of their own, get their own lands back after being repressed by the Turks and get on with their lives? Is there a reason we are allowing the Turks to continue to control the Kurds?
Thanks for all your rational, seemingly educated, highly coherent comments and remarks---Murat excepted. Rock on!!!

Posted by Tex 2003-04-11 13:08:36|| 2003-04-11 13:08:36|| Front Page Top

#14 Murat is about as logical as his Turkish masters. Let's see... we'll prevent the Americans from invading in the north then we'll get our panties in a twist because the Americans can't control the Kurds. How many times do the Turks have to shoot themselves in the foot before they get it? Fer Pete's sake, if they stopped scheming and playing bazaar merchant and just started analyzing and planning, they might have come out ahead in this war.
PS Why do I think that between the peshmerga, the 173d, and the 1st AD elements, the Turkish divisions wouldn't get more than five mile into Kurdistan before they were stopped cold?

Posted by 11A5S 2003-04-11 13:25:49|| 2003-04-11 13:25:49|| Front Page Top

#15 [Re: Tex's comment]

Invites?? We were supposed to wait for invites? I didn't hear nuthin' about no invites. Boy, is my face red.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2003-04-11 14:58:52|| [darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2003-04-11 14:58:52|| Front Page Top

#16 Murat's thinking:

{inside murats head}

Oh My God - the Kurds took over on of their own cities, they are amred, fighting well - people are starting to take them seriously in the West as FRIENDS!

And they didnt go in and kill the Turks there - so they didnt give us Turks a pretext for stomping them and continuing our genocidal actions!

DAMN - fast - post a comment to distract people before they start saying how nice the Kurds are compared to the racist genocidal Turks and Kemalists!

Lets see whats the biggest flase rumor the Arab press is floating... Deal for Saddam - that ought to move them off the subject...

{/inside murats head}

Nice try Murat - you want to see a genocidal regime supporter - go look in the mirror.

Posted by OldSpook 2003-04-11 15:47:56|| 2003-04-11 15:47:56|| Front Page Top

#17 Excuse me for butting in here, but this is for Murat. You've said before that you won't respond to people insulting you. Fair enough, but why haven't you responded to the two questions I've posed here for you today in other sections? (Turkey joining up with Syria & Iran, and the kid getting 5 years for saying he's happy to be a Kurd)

Posted by Former Russian Major 2003-04-11 16:37:28|| 2003-04-11 16:37:28|| Front Page Top

#18 Tex:

I don't have a link for this but I've read somewhere that the problem is that there are a lot of ethnic Turks in Iraq, especially around Kirkuk and Mosul. (They call them Turkomans or something like that, but they're basically Turks left over from when Iraq was part of the Turkish empire.)

Since Turkey oppresses their Kurds, it wouldn't be at all surprising if the Iraqi Kurds (whether still in Iraq or in an independent Kurdistan) decided to oppress their Turk(oman)s. As I undertand it, that's a lot of what the Turks in Turkey are worried about. They can't just annex the Turk(oman) areas, because they're little pockets a long way from the border, with most of the Kurds in between.

That means that partition wouldn't help much: the Kurds, Turk(oman)s, Shiite Arabs, and Sunni Arabs are all mixed up geographically. They're going to have to find some way to get along with each other.

Posted by Dr. Weevil 2003-04-11 16:40:37|| [www.doctorweevil.org] 2003-04-11 16:40:37|| Front Page Top

#19 Maybe the TURKS are why the Air Force is moving MOAB weapons into Iraq? I don't think any Turkish general would be too happy to run across the Iraqi border, just to be smashed into a pancake. Seems the US HAS learned a thing or two about dealing with the Middle East.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-04-11 16:56:26|| 2003-04-11 16:56:26|| Front Page Top

#20 The reason the French, Germans and Russians have moderated their braying is that with Iraqi archieves about to fall in US hands they probably do not wish to irritate George more than they all ready have. It wouldn't be good PR to see all the double dealing and UN sanction violations they have been involved in. Even the French and German electorates might wake up from their stupor and get annoyed. Murat is dead wrong. There are only Cuba, North Korea or Libya that might offer safe haven to Saddam. The vanishing troops, well I guess if I had the choice better death and desertion I'd be shucking those nasty old uniforms right quick.

Posted by TJ Jackson 2003-04-12 00:43:06|| 2003-04-12 00:43:06|| Front Page Top

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