Article

2005-04-06 Iraq-Jordan

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Steve 2005-04-06 9:07:22 AM|| || Front Page|| [11132 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I've read that they want to give the Hellfire missile a fuel-air explosive (FAE) warhead for urban targets as the building will contain the blast reducing damage to nearby buildings and personnel while the overpressure will kill the occupiers in nearby rooms. I imagine the 120mm is probably too small for such a device, but maybe a delayed-action warhead will be implemented to let the shell penetrate a wall or two before exploding?

Posted by Dar 2005-04-06 9:36:18 AM|| 2005-04-06 9:36:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 "A moving foxhole attracts the eye" Willy or Joe, circa WWII

Posted by Chuck Simmins 2005-04-06 9:41:10 AM|| [http://blog.simmins.org] 2005-04-06 9:41:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Here it is: A new generation of tank gun ammunition is proving very useful in Iraq and Israel. The new shells are better at killing infantry, and destroying bunkers and buildings, rather than destroying tanks. In the 1990s, new shells were developed for this, but in the last few years, 19,000 M830A1 multipurpose 120mm tank gun rounds were modified (to become M908 shells), to make them more lethal against bunkers, buildings and unarmored vehicles. In addition, there is the M1028, which is a 120mm shotgun shell (containing 1100 10mm tungsten balls, that can kill or wound at up to 700 meters from the tank), that began production in 2002. This shell, and the M908, are what American M-1 tanks use nearly all the time in Iraq. Israel pioneered both types of tank ammunition, and has been using their versions heavily in Palestinian areas during the last four years. These two shells make tanks much more useful in urban fighting. Hostile gunmen often take cover in buildings, or trees and crops. The M908 can knock down buildings, and the M1028 can clear out anyone sniping at you from lighter structures or vegetation.

Picatinny Arsenal, N.J.: The Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center's 120mm M908 ammunition cartridge was recently deployed to the Middle East to support Operation Iraqi Freedom. The M908 is fired from the M1A1 and M1A2 Abrams tanks and is used to destroy concrete obstacles, permitting the rapid advance of infantry and armor.
The M908 was developed in response to an urgent requirement from Korea in 1996, when the M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle and its 165mm M123 demolition round was removed from the Army's inventory, an action that threatened to leave combat engineers without a means to destroy or "rubble" large obstacles that would otherwise impede friendly troops.
In late 1996, the center conducted tests using several 120mm ammunition items in inventory. The tests revealed that modifying the M830A1 high explosive, multi-purpose cartridge performed just as well, if not better, at reducing obstacles than the 35-pound M123 warhead. The modification also proved effective against bunkers, concrete walls and light armored vehicles.
As a result of successful testing, the M830A1 was modified to produce the M908. Specifically, the M830A1's proximity switch nose (used to defend against attacking helicopters) was replaced with a hard steel nose. The steel nose allows the projectile to "burrow" itself inside an obstacle before the warhead functions. This fractures the concrete block from the inside out and is more effective than detonating a large explosive on the block's surface. To date, Alliant Techsystems and General Dynamics-OTS have converted more than 19,000 M908s.

"The M908 met an urgent Army requirement for Korea, and now, with other contingencies, has become a highly desirable item in our Abrams inventory for bunker defeat and urban battle," said Bill Sanville, project manager, Maneuver Ammunition Systems.

Posted by Steve 2005-04-06 10:13:02 AM|| 2005-04-06 10:13:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 120mm shotgun shell (containing 1100 10mm tungsten balls, that can kill or wound at up to 700 meters from the tank),

How deep can an M1 wade? A little Maryland autumn green and some moss and you've got yourself a mighty fine mobile duck blind. Game wardens would think twice too.

Posted by Nimrod 2005-04-06 10:23:28 AM|| 2005-04-06 10:23:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 I was infantry and only stood next to a M1 once, but the top of the tread came to just below my chin (about 5') and the top towered over my head and I stand at 6'2". So, at least 5' without a snorkle. (can a M1 use a snorkle?)

Posted by mmurray821 2005-04-06 10:33:31 AM|| 2005-04-06 10:33:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Ha! No LeClerq has ever been damaged in battle.

Posted by Jacques Chirac 2005-04-06 10:59:14 AM|| 2005-04-06 10:59:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Certainly not in the forward profile.

Posted by G. S. Patton 2005-04-06 11:07:36 AM|| 2005-04-06 11:07:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 It eese de uparmored butt protekshion dat makes all de differ-ance in our superior AFV's. When one must, let us say "fight", provi-sion must be made for the traditional French retreat and rout phase of tactical operations.

Posted by Charles DeBile 2005-04-06 11:36:08 AM|| 2005-04-06 11:36:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Ha! No LeClerq has ever been damaged in battle.

With four speeds of reverse, it's no wonder...

Posted by Raj 2005-04-06 12:27:43 PM|| 2005-04-06 12:27:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 The Leclerc has four speeds in reverse because after crushing an enemy soldier under its threads we just looove to pass again over him in reverse.

Posted by JFM 2005-04-06 2:45:03 PM|| 2005-04-06 2:45:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Touche, JFM.

Posted by Matt 2005-04-06 3:01:52 PM|| 2005-04-06 3:01:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 The Hellfire was tested out during a SINKEX a little while back. Interesting little beastie...

Posted by Chap 2005-04-06 4:09:53 PM|| [http://www.gmapalumni.org/chapomatic] 2005-04-06 4:09:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 "I've read that they want to give the Hellfire missile a fuel-air explosive (FAE) warhead for urban targets as the building will contain the blast reducing damage to nearby buildings and personnel while the overpressure will kill the occupiers in nearby rooms. I imagine the 120mm is probably too small for such a device, but maybe a delayed-action warhead will be implemented to let the shell penetrate a wall or two before exploding?"

The thermobarid Hellfire has already been used. I believe that the Russians successfully used thermobaric artillery shells in Afghanistan. The muj called them "devil sticks" or something like that. I also believe that thermobaric payloads has been tried on small projectiles, 40mm grenades or something, so 120mm should be doable. If there is a need, I am not sure.

Posted by Babson 2005-04-06 9:11:39 PM|| 2005-04-06 9:11:39 PM|| Front Page Top

14:34 anonymous
23:50 True German Ally
23:27 Frank G
23:20 Jame Retief
23:19 Carl in N.H.
23:05 jackal
23:05 Cyrus
23:01 Frank G
22:43 3dc
22:41 Sobiesky
22:39 Seafarious
22:37 Alaska Paul
22:22 Sobiesky
22:21 Chuck Simmins
22:12 WOT?
22:00 Frank G
21:50 Alaska Paul
21:47 True German Ally
21:37 Pappy
21:33 Pappy
21:31 Asedwich
21:27 Asedwich
21:25 Frank G
21:22 Alaska Paul