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2004-04-06 Iraq-Jordan
Breaking - Ar Ramadi Battle described as ’Large-Scale’
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Posted by .com 2004-04-06 3:55:43 PM|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Ar Ramadi - 24 miles West of Fallujah

CPA compound has been under siege for more than an hour. News source for Fox is Pentagon - not flakiy News org...
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 4:00:39 PM||   2004-04-06 4:00:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 No confirmation, yet, but eyewitness accounts say that at least 80 Iraqis are dead, several U.S. soldiers have been wounded.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 4:06:47 PM||   2004-04-06 4:06:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Looks like the hardboys are trying to stage their very own Tet Offensive. Ya think we should let them know how well that worked for Charlie? Me neither, we'll just show them.
Posted by Steve  2004-04-06 4:12:17 PM||   2004-04-06 4:12:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 looks like the army of sadr is trying to attack a compound according to fox,i think they'll be alot of buisness for the local iraqi grave diggers after all this has cooled down,we need to get an AC-130 loitering and blasting them from above,lets see if the will and might of Allan can stop that
Posted by Shep UK 2004-04-06 4:13:03 PM||   2004-04-06 4:13:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 They're not trying to beat our military; they're trying to beat our press and politicians. That's a hell of a lot easier job.
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-04-06 4:13:47 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-04-06 4:13:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I would think that this would be an excellent opportunity for the Apache drivers to test their accuracy.
Posted by remote man 2004-04-06 4:16:30 PM||   2004-04-06 4:16:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Army of Sadr = Iranian Revolutionary Guard
Posted by Yosemite Sam 2004-04-06 4:22:42 PM||   2004-04-06 4:22:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Ramadi predominantly Sunni - Sadr Shi'a, of course. Interesting. No more hard info from TV.

Fallaujah, 2 Marines injured today. Nigh there - they have pulled back out to cordon.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 4:24:11 PM||   2004-04-06 4:24:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Apologies for typos. Will pay attention and stop it. 8^)
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 4:25:33 PM||   2004-04-06 4:25:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Probably too good to be true (per ar-Ramadi report) that they'd try a frontal attack, sans urban cover, human shields, concealment, etc. But who knows. More likely that Sadr's minor leaguers will do that in other locales -- let's hope.
Posted by IceCold  2004-04-06 4:30:08 PM||   2004-04-06 4:30:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Tell the press to stay the hell out of the way and hose all these Jihadis. This is a golden opportunity to hammer these guys flat. Our forces spokespersons need to give the facts and be hardnosed. I hope that this operation kicks Al-Sadr's boy's asses.
Posted by Alaska Paul on the Road 2004-04-06 4:30:26 PM||   2004-04-06 4:30:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Waitaminnut.

Is this Sadr's Shiite militia trying to relieve the pressure on Fallujah? Or are they just attacking a spot they thought was weak?
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-04-06 4:30:42 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-04-06 4:30:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 RC -- Fox asking same thing - opportunity or collaboration? Sunni's answering Sadr's call to arms? General uprising by hotheads of both?

I'd say it's what we were talking about a couple of days ago: This Is It. Between Fallujah attack and handover ANYTHING goes.

Common cause and attempt to stretch US thin - the next 90 days will be "lively" methinks.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 4:36:43 PM||   2004-04-06 4:36:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Yosemite Sam,
Now that is an interesting thought. Any ideas weather Sadr's 'army' might have come over from Iran? (Army of Sadr = Iranian Revolutionary Guard)

Are we sure they are Iraqi's? Things might get interesting of they are not really local boys.....
Posted by CrazyFool  2004-04-06 4:39:15 PM||   2004-04-06 4:39:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 BTW, if 80 Iraqi dead is accurate (or close) then this is both a stand-up fight (something new for the jihadis in Iraq - rare even in Afghanistan) -- and remote man may be getting his wish: it's fucking hard to kill 80 people in an hour unless they line up and, when asked:
"Cake or Death?"
They cheerfully say "Death!" and hold real still.

Apaches, of course, could add zippers / perfs to 80 guys in about 45 seconds.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 4:40:16 PM||   2004-04-06 4:40:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Damn! - that was supposed to be "4-5 seconds".
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 4:42:05 PM||   2004-04-06 4:42:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 MSNBC has caught on and now sez Kut also attacked.
Link
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 4:51:15 PM||   2004-04-06 4:51:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Great "stupid reporter" line in MSNBC story:
"Officials tell NBC it was not immediately clear whether the attacks were coordinated."

2 observations:
1) f**kin duh
2) BTW, there are forces already there - it was a CPA base they attacked - thus stop portraying stories as if we're rushing to and fro meeting the jihadis. We're already there, dumbass. They open fire. They die.

Here ya go, remote man:
"In Fallujah, military officials report that a U.S. attack helicopter killed at least a dozen enemy suspects who had fired on the helicopter from a large open-bed truck. The helicopter returned fire, destroying the truck."
-MSNBC story
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 4:55:38 PM||   2004-04-06 4:55:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Fox reporter TV saying CPA Mil Cmd sez "significant US KIA". Murat will be here soon, methinks.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:01:02 PM||   2004-04-06 5:01:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Size of US Ramadi force approx 1,000 - HQ for area.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:02:28 PM||   2004-04-06 5:02:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 The officials also report that one attacker hiding in a mosque fired a rocket-propelled grenade at U.S. Marines in Fallujah. The Marines returned fire, killing the assailant.

Nice to see they're not playing that "spare the moskkk" bullshiite.

Posted by BH  2004-04-06 5:03:21 PM||   2004-04-06 5:03:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Night attack...makes sense from a jihadist perspective but it plays to our advantage. Our boys own the night. Nail those f#ckers cold!
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-04-06 5:03:35 PM||   2004-04-06 5:03:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Fallujah - today 14 jihadis captured, 12 KIA.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:04:26 PM||   2004-04-06 5:04:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 It sounds like a tactical intel failure...
Wretchard was right about the counter-siege tactics. Ralph Peters in today's editorial was right that we didn't hit them back fast enough or hard enough.

Liberalhawk: If you're out there, are you starting to understand the calculus of death? If we'd killed 100 scumbags on that bridge in Fallujah, would that have been a fair trade for the thousands that are going to die now?
Posted by 11A5S 2004-04-06 5:06:14 PM||   2004-04-06 5:06:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 BBC has this on Fallujah. Still MIA on the Ramadi / Kut fights. Note: no one has corroborated Kut action reported by NBC.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:07:42 PM||   2004-04-06 5:07:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 #19 .com: Son of bitch....any other updates? I can't get to tv monitor at this point...and agree with your #13, rules are out the door. If a turban so much as farts from a mosque, flatten it.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-04-06 5:11:16 PM||   2004-04-06 5:11:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 11A5S - Ret Talking Head General on Fox says this engagement will not flare up and die - will go on for some time - days, perhaps.

This really is it. And what an opportunity to kill the asshats among them, at least in the stand-up episodes.

11A5S - I said it then and repeat it now: your statement on the "Calculus of Death" rocked. It reminded me of Lincoln when he appointed Grant because, "He understands the terrible mathematics of war. He's the man we must have." Amen. I believe that statement was made regards battles at Cold Harbor.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:15:41 PM||   2004-04-06 5:15:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Fox talking head (Congressman Duncan Hunter) now saying 1st Armored will prolly not rotate out. Fortunately they were just starting to pack - he sez he will go to Rummy / Dubya and ask that they overstay rotation schedule to max our tactical advantage with all this armor.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:17:55 PM||   2004-04-06 5:17:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Okay, now we are where I thought we wopuld be last April. Time to finish it. Hopefully, there will be no heed paid to any negotiation requests/stalling tactics by the other side.

Also, I like the way we are prominently and repeatedly saying how we are identifying the Fallujah wackos from the film and photos. Think Al-Jazeera will be so welcome at the next lynching ?

Posted by Carl in NH 2004-04-06 5:18:51 PM||   2004-04-06 5:18:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Hugh Hewitt notes the best info on the fighting is here and Belmont Club - I'd have to agree
Posted by Frank G  2004-04-06 5:22:58 PM||   2004-04-06 5:22:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 I think Sadr may be at getting help from Iran especially after reading yesterday's Rantburg article and then seeing the amout of coordination taking place today. It seems strange that now they are fighting us head on instead of the Paleo/Israel approach? Its too professional for them to pull off like this. Wouldn't it also be in Iran's interest to get some experience against us since we have them flanked on both sides.
Posted by Yosemite Sam 2004-04-06 5:23:38 PM||   2004-04-06 5:23:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Grant was a great man, dotcom. I don't think that any American has ever borne the burden that he did on his shoulders except perhaps Lincoln.

There's going to be a lot of killing these next few days. Sadr is decisive. We're going to have to kill a lot of turbans to get to him.
Posted by 11A5S 2004-04-06 5:24:44 PM||   2004-04-06 5:24:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 YS - Experience only counts if you live to use it :^).

I say we finish the damn job this time. We should have done it in GW I and back in 03. Give no quarter because none will be offered.
Posted by CrazyFool  2004-04-06 5:26:17 PM||   2004-04-06 5:26:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Talk about a scoop - we're over 2 hrs into this and:
Instapundit - zip, zilch, nada
The Command Post - may have been first to report - they have the story, dunno if before us, but they do have it, their update. Heh.

ZERO print media (as per Google consolidated news) are on it...

CBS is lamely referring to widespread fighting - painting it in dire terms, of course, but without a single specific to back it up. Only Fallujah covg.

Marine casulaties "double digits" - now saying at least 11 US Marines KIA and 20+ wounded. They say it's contained - action occurring at Governor's palace. Now saying not sure if Sunni, Ba'athist, or Sadr Shi'a. Questioning captives now.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:26:20 PM||   2004-04-06 5:26:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 btw - Duncan Hunter's my congressman - we love him out here (California!), and he's one of the best friends our fighting boyz have. Just bragging ;-)
Posted by Frank G  2004-04-06 5:26:36 PM||   2004-04-06 5:26:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Sky News reports:
130 SOLDIERS KILLED IN IRAQ - REPORTS
Posted by Anonymous4050 2004-04-06 5:31:40 PM||   2004-04-06 5:31:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Sky news has just flashed up some pretty grim
casuality figures, but they do say that this report is yet to be confirmed.
Posted by Lux 2004-04-06 5:32:01 PM||   2004-04-06 5:32:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Rooters is referring to the attacks obliquely. Obvious that they aren't really sure what's going on and are waiting for things to sort themselves out.
Posted by 11A5S 2004-04-06 5:32:44 PM||   2004-04-06 5:32:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Agreed, 11A5S. And this is our real opportunity to do to the Sunni Triangle what Turkey's perfidy prevented. The casulaties taken now in SunTri will save 10x over the next 12 months. We just have to gut this through until it's completely pacified or crushed - their choice.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:32:45 PM||   2004-04-06 5:32:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Lux - Maybe they wish it was true, but Fox #'s direct from Pentagon / CPA Mil Cmd.

Now reporter on Fox saying they pulled people from HQ to help in Ar Ramadi fight. "Reporter's obvious take: "Typewriter to M-16 - who'da thunk it?" Well, anyone who's ever served, lady.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:36:20 PM||   2004-04-06 5:36:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 Lux - mebbe that's the total figure, us + them. Might be about right, in fact, as a total.

Now Fox saying that 70 attacked Gov Palace in Ar Ramadi. That makes the 80 dead figure a non-starter. Not sure whether area HQ is IN the GovPal - or just near. So much bullshit, so little time!

Now saying 12 US Marines KIA in Ar Ramadi, 4 in Fallujah and 2 in Baghdad - all today. Something's not right - he just summarized and said 16 US KIA today. Either first figs are bogus or his math sucks -- or, and most likely, I can't type and listen at the same time very well. Sigh.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:44:10 PM||   2004-04-06 5:44:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 I just heard a report of 'heavy' insurgent casualties! Kick ass Marines!
Posted by Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter)  2004-04-06 5:46:40 PM||   2004-04-06 5:46:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 I'm afraid the newsflash is about the totality of coverage from Sky at the moment, so I can't tell you anymore. Here's hoping that the vast majority of the 130 are Sadr's drones.
Posted by Lux 2004-04-06 5:47:19 PM||   2004-04-06 5:47:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Hmm - I still say this is too pro of a job for the mainstream. What do you you guys think about the possibility of Izzat Ibrahim Al-Duri having a hand in this? Hes still on the loose.
Posted by Yosemite Sam 2004-04-06 5:47:39 PM||   2004-04-06 5:47:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 It is time to kick these SOBs in the balls. Find the hole the cleric is hiding in an drop a MOAB on it. And Keep dropping MOABs and Daisy Cutters till either they crawl for mercy or simply can't crawl any more at all.
Posted by Cheddarhead 2004-04-06 5:47:43 PM||   2004-04-06 5:47:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 CH - Sadr and his boyz are pussies - paper-tigers, IMHO. Sure, haul his ashes since he's fucked up and attacked, but he and his Madhi Army are wimps.

This bunch up in the SunTri, however have killed 16 Marines today (He corrected his math - 18 dead total today) - these are the Arab Pros in action. These are the guys we wanna wipe off the planet ASAP, IMO.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:51:49 PM||   2004-04-06 5:51:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 God bless our forces, doing what must be done.
Posted by Hyper 2004-04-06 5:55:26 PM||   2004-04-06 5:55:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 Y'know, I just can't believe GR at Instapundit isn't all over this. No way would he miss this unless just cut off from his keyboard! Same for CJ at LGF - nothing. Everybody's out to dinner, I guess...

Boy are they gonna be pissed... 8^(
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 5:56:17 PM||   2004-04-06 5:56:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 This is exactly the reason I love Rantburg!
Posted by Yosemite Sam 2004-04-06 5:58:38 PM||   2004-04-06 5:58:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 Rooters now confirming up to "a dozen" Marine KIA at Ar Ramidi.
Posted by 11A5S 2004-04-06 5:59:49 PM||   2004-04-06 5:59:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 OTOH - Drudge's page looks like armageddon - totally overblown with KIA's and crap in the headlines.
Posted by Frank G  2004-04-06 6:00:00 PM||   2004-04-06 6:00:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 One of you guys who knows more about "Red" (Al Dhouri sp?) jump in and answer YS. I'm not a pro on him other than he's the last of the big boyz missing. The attack in Ar Ramadi was obviously a surprise. I guess there is no "rear" in this gig - and they were caught sleeping. 70 guys with a mess of RPG's can kill a lot of people quickly if caught by surprise.

Brit Hume on now... now he's repeating the BS that it's the Madhi Army, which was discounted 30 minutes ago by another Fox reporter. Sheesh. Now talking to the guy who has scooped everyone today, Bret Bair - he says attackers aren't known - and is again discounting early reports that it's Sadr's "army". Pentagon sez not sure who attacked in Ramadi, but they are guessing Ba'athists, maybe foreigh fighters. No plans to call in more troops, but considering delaying rotation, as we got earlier. Bret Bair owns the day, Marines own the night!
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 6:05:53 PM||   2004-04-06 6:05:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 "up to a dozen" also describes zero.
Posted by Jack C. Lately 2004-04-06 6:06:18 PM||   2004-04-06 6:06:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#54 BTW, Amen to what Hyper and YS say!
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 6:08:07 PM||   2004-04-06 6:08:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 JCL - be specific - I have been. Source? Link? Something?
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 6:08:53 PM||   2004-04-06 6:08:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#56 Drudge is overblown. Remember it is night there. How many Sadrites that went to meet the virgins won't be known until daybreak. It will probably be at least 10x the fatalities suffered by our brave guys. Remember, the Islamofacist follower of Sadr doesn't care about his fate, so with our guy's night-vision goggles, our Marines probably can pick off those fools in bunches.
Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-06 6:11:23 PM||   2004-04-06 6:11:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#57 holy shiite!
Posted by muck4doo 2004-04-06 6:12:29 PM||   2004-04-06 6:12:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#58 AP now has a fairly balanced report up. Headline: 66 Iraqis Die in Battle With US Forces
Posted by 11A5S 2004-04-06 6:15:27 PM||   2004-04-06 6:15:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#59 This was planned IMPO by the ashole cleric. When the contractors were killed last week people in the crowd already had signs that were made up in advance. Grabbing the cleric may not stop it but let him file a complaint with Allah, in person
Posted by Cheddarhead 2004-04-06 6:18:53 PM||   2004-04-06 6:18:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#60 66 enemy on the AP report. Remember it is still dark there for about 3-1/2 hours. That number will triple.
Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-06 6:18:56 PM||   2004-04-06 6:18:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#61 I've been thinking some more... y'all are implying some sort of professionalism on the part of the attackers. I've thought about it, and I've determined that this is not the case. These guys are better than the usual insurgents the US has had to deal with, but I can't help but think that professionals would have coordinated their attacks much better.

For instance, Sadr had a semi-coordinated set of simultaneous attacks in Baghdad and points south; he started those attacks the day _before_ the Marines started the section/sweep phase of Fallujah.

And now there's this bunch of attacks in Ar Ramadi.

I think professionals would have waited until Monday (or probably later than that... but that's another post in itself on the timing of switching to the offensive phase of an insurgency) and then done simultaneous attacks in Basra, Baghdad, etc., AND Ar Ramadi at the same time the Marines were going in.

And the more I think about my previous opinion, I find myself wondering how big the gap is between the way the Army of Sadr thinks a successful guerilla campaign should be done, and how I think it should be done in my semi-informed unprofessional opinion, much less how someone who's actually been to Basic, or OCS or NCO school, or the Army War College might think it should be done.

Trying to put it another way, I read on the news that "The Army of Sadr" is attacking, and I imagine a proper textbook guerilla army (of whatever model one wants to use) being put into action, but in reality it's not a textbook guerilla army but something that is comparatively speaking substandard.

What do y'all think?
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-04-06 6:20:45 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-04-06 6:20:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#62 CH - I'm not convinced Shia Al-Sadr and Sunni Fallujah are connected by other than opportunity. Direct coordination doesn't seem likely, but the sides are all to willing to attack when our forces are pre-occupied with the other side...of course, I could be wrong (again) ;-)
Posted by Frank G  2004-04-06 6:22:09 PM||   2004-04-06 6:22:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#63 From Hugh Hewitt - Sadr's army = 5000, receives money from Lebanese Hezbollah. Birds of a feather flock together - even vultures & buzzards.
Perhaps our marines should put Sadr into the same condition that the Israleis did Hamas' Yasin.
Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-06 6:38:43 PM||   2004-04-06 6:38:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#64 Drudge did take down the 130 headline. But it is still in the story as estimates run as high as but nothing is official. Go troops, kill the bad guys, and stay safe.
Posted by Ol_Dirty_American 2004-04-06 6:38:51 PM||   2004-04-06 6:38:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#65 Frank G - Agree - and maybe this is a partial answer to PF, though I'm no guerilla expert: I see this as opportunism, not collaboration. We precipitated this when we shut down Sadr's newspaper. Then the Spaniards arrested his lieutenant and the shit really began. I think the Fallujah guys, looking at Sadr and at the calendar decided to take next target of opportunity. And here we are.

What is wacky, IMHO, in the news reporting - and sometimes in comments here, is that we can handle only one thing at a time. Every Leg and every Jathead knows what to do when fired upon. Every single one of them in Iraq. They all have standing orders for what to do if X or Y or Z happens. You could attack in 100 different places and in each one of them these professionals would just execute their SOP according to the ROE they operate under. So the breathlessness of the reporters is a constant source of irritation for me - cuz they're transmitting that it's an emergency and almost out of control - because their hearts are beating fast talking about other people doing what they are unable / unwilling to do. It's entertainment, too, when they finally get info worth hearing.

Bret Bair on Fox now saying it's possible the Ramadi attack could even have been ex-Iraqi Army and/or ex-Special Republican Guard - Pentagon leaning toward Ba'athists, now. Saying it was definitely a surprise attack.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 6:42:14 PM||   2004-04-06 6:42:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#66 For those that would say we should leave Iraq, remind them that this battle is being fought just 12 hours from anywhere in the continental US.

The world is too damn small for us to hide behind our shores and the world too dangerous to leave our secuity in the ands of people who continue to think that Iraq is a far off place that we can afford to ignore.
Posted by Frank Martin  2004-04-06 6:43:07 PM||   2004-04-06 6:43:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#67 BTW - new post up at Belmont
Posted by Frank G  2004-04-06 6:43:40 PM||   2004-04-06 6:43:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#68 Sigh. Jathead should be Jarhead. Apologies.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 6:44:12 PM||   2004-04-06 6:44:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#69 From Sky news. Sadr's demands are growing.....

The cleric's aide said the Coalition must withdraw troops from populated areas, such as Baghdad and Fallujah, and release prisoners.

The demands are in addition to the original call for al-Sadr's extremist newspaper to be reopened after the coalition shut it down.

Al-Sadr's militiamen have opened up three fronts across the country, targeting coalition forces and causing casualties in American, British and Italian held areas.

Sky's David Chater in Baghdad said: "They (the militias) have shown their military might and their demands are growing.
Posted by CrazyFool  2004-04-06 6:46:58 PM||   2004-04-06 6:46:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#70 Frank G - Thanks - Wretchard rocks!

CF - Re: Sadr. Lol! Pfeh. Dead man talking. His people hid behind women and children and lost their asses... and he ran like a rabbit and hid in a moskkk.

He's D.E.A.D. as long as we just do our business - which I think we're finally going to do this time, both with Sadr and in the SunTri.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 6:55:00 PM||   2004-04-06 6:55:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#71 .com great post. I couldn't agree more on the breathlessness subject. Our people are professionals. Their skill and esprit de corps is unmatched. They have demonstrated time and again that they will perform under fire.

The one thing that is missing so far is significant air or artillery support on these operations. At least little has been reported (I'm still at the office counting on RB posters to keep me informed.) I would have to believe that the command structure is not going to let our guys get hit without coming back at the attackers hard.

This is their Tet try, but they don't have the 15+ years of insurgency experience like the VC and NVA. They are going to get their asses kicked. Pray for our boys out there tonight. They are the best.
Posted by remote man 2004-04-06 6:55:15 PM||   2004-04-06 6:55:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#72 .com, you're right on about the reporters. They seem continually shocked that the enemy has guns and bullets, and think that this represents a lack of planning by the White House or the Pentagon.
Posted by Matt 2004-04-06 6:58:47 PM||   2004-04-06 6:58:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#73 "So the breathlessness of the reporters is a constant source of irritation for me"

As bad as the reporters are, the talking heads are even worse: I almost unloaded my .45 into the TV during John Gibson's show on Fox. I can't stand the guy; what a useless, panicking ninnie.
Posted by Dave D.  2004-04-06 7:01:18 PM||   2004-04-06 7:01:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#74 "They (the militias) have shown their military might and their demands are growing. " Sheesh....don't stroke yerself too hard there guy - it garbles your commentary.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-04-06 7:01:54 PM||   2004-04-06 7:01:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#75 I'll bet my entire bank account that either there is now, or will be ASAP an IR-equipped UAV flying figure-8's over the Fallaujah region, including Ar Ramadi.

That'll prolly make you happier, remote man! Now if it's armed to the gills, well now, that'll make everyone happier, methinks.

Bret Bair updating now. Confirmed 18 KIA / 20+ Wounded today. Sez "situation is winding down". Once again discounting SunTri action was Madhi Twinkies. Pentagon sez well trained, well equipped, and possibly former Army or Spec Republican Guard.

Now complaints about dead in Fallujah, local Iraqi Doc claims many women and children (same as the AP article 11A5S found for us - still best summary I've yet seen). No mention of baby ducks, puppies, or kittens, Mucky.

Confirming now 14 Captives and 12 KIA jihadis in Fallujah. More summary of action other places but going too fast for me, now, sorry.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 7:07:42 PM||   2004-04-06 7:07:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#76 Sadr ain't Giap. Prepare for a change in mission.
Posted by Shipman 2004-04-06 7:07:57 PM||   2004-04-06 7:07:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#77 rem man / Matt - They really make me crazy - like Dave D! But I just spent $4K on this big wide-screen mutha, so I'll eat Drano before I'll shoot it, heh!

RM - sorta rings hollow when he's hiding, doncha think?

Ship - Nor are their fodder equiv to NVA, as some smart person pointed out (can't locate it at the moment - sorry!) up above!
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 7:12:46 PM||   2004-04-06 7:12:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#78 .com you know I am lovin the Predator. And my guess is that they have several smaller tactical birds up there as well. Sorry about the cilian casualties, but the locals could have avoided them if they'd ratted out the SRG's in their midst months ago.
Posted by remote man 2004-04-06 7:14:01 PM||   2004-04-06 7:14:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#79 rem man - Yep. UAV's will completely change everything. Period.

Re: Fallujah Civs - And yesterday they got the full PR drill, too, bull horn, leaflets, the worx. Hey, it's simple: If you don't evac or give up the bad guys, then your ticket's void.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 7:16:58 PM||   2004-04-06 7:16:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#80 rem man - UAV follow-up thought... In a whisper, "Hell, I'd pay even more taxes if they'd promise to put them into body armor and armed UAV's." Mumm's the werd, heh.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 7:18:20 PM||   2004-04-06 7:18:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#81 remote man - Dont discount the enemy's habit of hiding behind women and children civilians. I think that counts for a *lot* of the civilian casualties.
Posted by CrazyFool  2004-04-06 7:19:06 PM||   2004-04-06 7:19:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#82 civs in Fallujah at this point = voluntary human shields....ahhh welll at least you'll get your raisins lol
Posted by Frank G  2004-04-06 7:19:21 PM||   2004-04-06 7:19:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#83 Thank da LOWARD for Rantburg. I was seeing those 120+ killed and freaking out, then I smacked myself for not coming here for another view (and the info ya'll dig up).

Hopefully those numbers are just idiot reporters overblowing things as they always do.
Posted by Laurence of the Rats  2004-04-06 7:21:36 PM||   2004-04-06 7:21:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#84 Is this a diversion? Is someone important breaking through the 'cordon'?
Posted by THEO 2004-04-06 7:21:42 PM||   2004-04-06 7:21:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#85 Frank, using the women and children is SOP for the brave Arab warrior. Scumbags. There was a great post somewhere on RB today about how the Arab male basically has no dick as reflected by the way they treat their women. Boy, ain't it the truth.
Posted by remote man 2004-04-06 7:21:45 PM||   2004-04-06 7:21:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#86 Sadr's demands are growing...
ka-snip

Yeah, and I want a toilet made of solid gold, but it just ain't in the cards.
Posted by eLarson 2004-04-06 7:22:54 PM||   2004-04-06 7:22:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#87 Lol - remote man - that was ex-lib's classic rant on Arab masculinity -- or better yet, the lack of it. Lol! Truly a classic!
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 7:26:33 PM||   2004-04-06 7:26:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#88 THEO -What are you talking about? News? Source? Link?
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 7:27:40 PM||   2004-04-06 7:27:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#89 Well the print people are onto the story like a puppy on your favorite sweat socks...

Here's a really really GOOD example of a really really BAD report. Completely breathlessly clueless and filled with spin phrasing unworthy of bona-fide reporters. Tripe and dizziness courtesy of Rooters.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 7:33:34 PM||   2004-04-06 7:33:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#90 Hopefully if this continues it will help deplete the hidden cache's of weapons. These guys have limited ability to resupply and idiot stunts like this will use up what they have hidden. Last ditch attacks like this could easily end just like the Battle of the Bulge, Tet offensive, Korea (whatever the original southern offensive was called that McArthur outflanked)
Posted by Patrick 2004-04-06 7:34:17 PM||   2004-04-06 7:34:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#91  First of all, we've been very lucky with 16 KIA. MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) operations may be THE worst type of fighting there is. I agree with the assessment that we waited too long and have been too soft. Instead of packing 50 marines into the back of a Hummer (as shown on FOX), they need to get armor in there for fire support. A Bradley's 25MM pumping out HE rounds can do some damage. Pump a TOW into a building and watch them flee like roaches. Yeah armor is useless in the city, but there are areas they can fight in there. The Militia will fight for a few days, but the Marines need to start tearing shit up. It seems like whoever planned this shin-dig wasn't very agressive. (Not on the ground, I don't know) Besides, come on 1 Battalion of Marines??? They're GOOD, but even Superman needs help every once in a while.They should've put in 2 Brigades minimum. Armor provides the "shock" supported by Infantry and you can hammer and assault. Trust me if T-55 rounds bounced off of an M1A1's in the first war, good luck using those RPG's. (I know EVERYTHING is dependent on terrain). All I'm saying is that we need more moblie forces and more importantly, we need a Patton in there and not a McClellan. Make them ALL believers USMC!!!
Posted by 98Zulu 2004-04-06 7:38:27 PM||   2004-04-06 7:38:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#92 Patrick - at Inchon, but I don't recall the name of the Opn. I'm not sure if they're limited in arms or not - there's plenty of Saudi funding via Prince Nayaf, I'd bet, as long as he can find fodder to give it to. I'd guess arms are coming in from Syria for SunTri and Iraq for Sadr's fodder.


Here are The Command Post's MAPS
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 7:41:36 PM||   2004-04-06 7:41:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#93 Seems like our guys there are doing a top notch job, but over here we hear in statements of appeasment by Teddy Kennedy, Al-Jazerra's favorite senator, whining that undermines them. Hewitt and Gaffney are urging the US populace at large to stay the course. And we need to do so.
Get those predator drones in there and ring some alarm clocks.
Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-06 7:44:39 PM||   2004-04-06 7:44:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#94 If I were Sadr, or a Baathist, I would have waited.

I would have waited for the Yanks to pass over the reins of government to the Iraqi's. I would have waited until we were closer to the American elections. Then I would have pulled the Tet-style bullcrap to take over the Iraqi government, embarass Bush, and hopefully cost him the election.

As it is, the US military can now shoot openly at these guys and we'll have them rolled up before the hand over of power, and long before the US election. Damn fools (not that I'm complaining). I particularly like how they fire their weapons from the hip, Rambo style.
Posted by ruprecht 2004-04-06 7:46:23 PM||   2004-04-06 7:46:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#95 Our people are doing a great job but it's not clear to me that we have enough troops in Iraq. I did not think this was the case until this past 10 days, but things seem to have gone down hill since we started drawing down and handing responsibility over to the Iraqis. It's up to the commander in chief to decide whether to commit more resources even if it spun as an admission of failure by some.
Posted by JAB 2004-04-06 7:50:32 PM||   2004-04-06 7:50:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#96 They made a fundamental strategic error in an effort to get tactical surproise: they thought they could get away with cowing us due to Kerry/Kennedy during a force change over.

All they did was delay the departure of the 1st Armored Division, who will be brought to bear quite soon.

That and like a classic poker blunder, they showed their hand too soon. Now they are all out in the open, operating as plainly crimina elements, and dont have the populace supporting them.

I wager that a great majority of those in the triangle are former Fedayeen Sadaam and army malcontents as well as Baathists.

Glad to see them in the open, dying is decent numbers.

Want to know WHY they are attacking now?

Because we are hurting them, hard, with the cordon and clear being run on Fallujah and other towns. They have 2 choices: go down fighting or just go down. Like the SS for the Nazis at the end of WW2, they are trying to take as many of us with them as they can.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-04-06 8:02:07 PM||   2004-04-06 8:02:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#97 .com#89: " Well the print people are onto the story like a puppy on your favorite sweat socks..." LOL!! Absolutely! Your link was the perfect example of why I'm an ex-lib (originally was trained as a broadcast news/documentary film and newspaper reporter). They write it so smoothly, don't they? Why, one might almost believe them. I got so fed up with that field, because the only thing most journalists do is to use their training to try and fake out people with false (or "tweaked") information bubbling up from their own biases
--or from their editor's biases. Half the time they believe it themselves. Ugh! And Grrrr!

Our guys are going to do great! I'm sure of it. The negative reports are just doof-fodder. But the loss of the life of even one of our good guys is reason enough to turn all the Islamotwerps into desert dust!

I have added to my rant on the Scandi stolen dynamite post, and I'm betting my fortune on the guys with dicks!

Go Marines! Go Army! Go Blackwater and anyone else over there properly "equipped"! Show 'em what it's all about!!

All our prayers.
Posted by ex-lib 2004-04-06 8:03:34 PM||   2004-04-06 8:03:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#98 LOL at least you didn't call for a muster and show of "arms" on the commenters
Posted by Frank G  2004-04-06 8:04:53 PM||   2004-04-06 8:04:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#99 Beyond delaying departure of the 1st Armored Division, what more can be done in the intermediate term to reinforce things further deteriorate?

I will continue to pray for our people and hope that we are in fact significantly reducing the number of enemy. This is not clear from the reports but I assume we are.

Posted by JAB 2004-04-06 8:07:24 PM||   2004-04-06 8:07:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#100 Well said 98Zulu, I agree.
Posted by Rafael 2004-04-06 8:09:34 PM||   2004-04-06 8:09:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#101 Walt Rodgers of the Collaborators News Network just about wet himself on the 7:00 CT broadcast. The Marines are under attack! Thank God this guy wasn't around for Tarawa or the Chosin Reservoir.
Posted by Matt 2004-04-06 8:16:47 PM||   2004-04-06 8:16:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#102 OS - I think you're dead right. Forgive me, cuz I know I'm not the strategist you are, but all of what you said rings true. They actually didn't pick the time - with Sadr, we did. He'll die figuring this out, I hope. And the terrain around Fallujah? Really stupid choice - way too open. Of course, I haven't studied the whole SunTri terrain - it may be the best of the lot, Lol!

ruprecht - I think the SunTri Ba'athists (or whomever it is) screwed up and jumped in thinking we'd be distracted - too soon as ruprecht pointed out.

JAB - The Ret Col and Ret Gen on O'Reilly just said we have enough - but wrong mix. Need many more Spec ops and Air, less armor - which fits with 98 Zulu's statement on MOUT.

ex-lib - Dubya has taken a drubbing in the polls - cuz the asshats are controlling the reporting, as you pointed out. I empathize with your frustrations, and change of career - though I sure wish YOU were writing for the NYT today or reporting for CNN - and bucking management all the way!

O'Reilly always has his own spin on things in the No Spin Zone - but he got 2 things right:
1) This is the Second Iraq War cuz we never nailed the SunTri and allowed the Mullahs to arm private militias - there are more besides Sadr's, y'know.
2) This is the moment of truth - we can lose Iraq or we can win it - and that choice is here and now.
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 8:19:34 PM||   2004-04-06 8:19:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#103 Walt Rodgers of the Collaborators News Network...

Jamie McIntyre couldn't keep the grin off his face either.
Posted by Rafael 2004-04-06 8:20:55 PM||   2004-04-06 8:20:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#104 Presumably we can move more Special Operations troops and air power back into the country relatively quickly, though Special Ops must be severely overtasked right now.
Posted by JAB 2004-04-06 8:22:06 PM||   2004-04-06 8:22:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#105 Far Fetched Theory follows: Could this offensive be a testing of the reactions of the Coalition? A more thought out attack (to ruprecht's point) to follow? I know I'm not giving our guys enough credit (and prolly too much credit to Allah's finest) but I have to think this concern is running through some military planners minds....
Posted by Mason 2004-04-06 8:33:11 PM||   2004-04-06 8:33:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#106 Relax folks, we got these f*ckers. Matter of time like I said. The eye of mordor is upon them. 761 grains of diplomacy will be passing through Sadr's brain housing group by the end of the week. I MEF trains for this sh*t hard. We'll lose some lads, I hate to say it God bless them each & everyone and it pains me to no end, but it's going to happen, read through the media sensationalism, the kill ratio will be insane for us, think 15 or 20 to 1. We do this sh*t for a living remember?
Posted by Jarhead 2004-04-06 8:55:32 PM||   2004-04-06 8:55:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#107 Pendleton boyz and my neighbors - God Bless Each and Every One
Posted by Frank G  2004-04-06 8:58:55 PM||   2004-04-06 8:58:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#108 Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could just build a great big colosseum,line all the Shiite extremists up on one side, all the Sunni/Baathist cockroaches on the other,hand out the cudgels, and let them play "last man standing" while our troops clapped and jeered from the bleachers?

It just seems that it is INSANE that our lads are soaking up punishment from such diametrically-opposed forces - when we could just let "matter" and "anti-matter" cancel themselves out.

Ah well, I guess things can't always work out so conveniently.
Posted by Lone Ranger 2004-04-06 9:15:59 PM||   2004-04-06 9:15:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#109 Just watched ABC Evening news. The Pentagon correspondent was wetting herself into an orgasmic fevor saying there are 'many many many' U.S. casualties and wounded and 'many many' insurgent and 'many many' U.S. casualties in the 'general revolt'..... Oh and it is not known if everyone was supporting Sadr (gee... everyone here on rantburg knows that they don't...). And Sadr has us on the run....

Strangely they did not mention that the 'insurgents' were using civilian human shields.

Oh and there were 'many many US casualties!
Posted by CrazyFool  2004-04-06 9:26:45 PM||   2004-04-06 9:26:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#110 "Get those predator drones in there and ring some alarm clocks."

While we are at it why not fly one over Hyannisport and keep that drunk at home swigging his booze.
Posted by Bill Nelson  2004-04-06 9:29:34 PM||   2004-04-06 9:29:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#111 This is TET -- That's the correct analogy. Not a danger to us over there but aimed at provoking a dangerous response on the home front.
Posted by Anonymous4059 2004-04-06 9:33:41 PM||   2004-04-06 9:33:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#112 So it's really a three-pronged attack: the Sunnis, the radical Shiites, and the US news media. When's that armed forces news feed coming online?
Posted by Matt 2004-04-06 9:47:51 PM||   2004-04-06 9:47:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#113 "Julius Caesar", Act III, scene i

Anthony:
"O, pardon me, thou bleeding piece of earth,
That I am meek and gentle with these butchers!
Thou art the ruins of the noblest man
That ever lived in the tide of times.
Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood!
Over thy wounds now do I prophesy,--
Which, like dumb mouths, do ope their ruby lips,
To beg the voice and utterance of my tongue--
A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;
Domestic fury and fierce civil strife
Shall cumber all the parts of Italy;
Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial."
-William Shakespeare
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 9:54:30 PM||   2004-04-06 9:54:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#114 #110 "Get those predator drones in there and ring some alarm clocks."

The hell with the Preds, get the AC-130s up and orbiting
Posted by Cheddarhead 2004-04-06 10:39:50 PM||   2004-04-06 10:39:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#115 CH - They used one today in Fallujah... sorta the ultimate in Fire Suppression, heh...
Posted by .com 2004-04-06 10:42:19 PM||   2004-04-06 10:42:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#116 Ralph Peters in today's editorial was right that we didn't hit them back fast enough or hard enough.

I believed from the beginning that whacking Fallujah a really good one immediately was the best course of action. Those scumbags down there don't care anything about Western virtues like patience; all they understand is raw, unadulterated power. If that's the case, then GIVE it to 'em, and in nice, generous doses.

"The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility. Hit first, hit hard, and hit anywhere."
-- Lord John Fisher

They used one today in Fallujah.

Just one? I would have sent at least three. All those miniguns blazing would have put on quite a show, in addition to mincing a lot of insurgent meat.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-04-06 11:10:43 PM||   2004-04-06 11:10:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#117 Zeyad at Healing Iraq says he saw a number of rebels handing out flyers mentioning the first anniversary of the occupation. It looks like the mutilation incident may simply have been a probe in preparation for the real festivities. The Marine encirclement and attack on Fallujah pre-empted their Tet offensive, which would have had more psychological impact if it had started on April 9th. As it is, given the early kick-off, the defining moment of these hostilities will be the murder and mutilation of the contractors, not the first anniversary of the occupation. Quoted from Zeyad:

I was standing outside with neighbours yesterday afternoon gossiping when a car drove by, threw a couple of fliers at us, shouting "read them, may Allah increase your reward". The fliers were signed by a group which called itself Saif Allah Albattar (Allah's striking sword) at Ramadi, Fallujah, Adhamiya, and Diyala, which advised Iraqis to remain home on April 9th (the anniversary of the occupation), stating that they would not be responsible if anyone failed to do so.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-04-06 11:40:51 PM||   2004-04-06 11:40:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#118 #117 Zhang Fei makes an excellent point. These nutbags have a hang-up about anniversaries. That makes it more dangerous, yet may provide opportunities where some of the key players may expose themselves to egg on the combatants. Example: The fine gentlemen of the Polish infantry may have made one of Sadr's senior people into so-much Kelbasa. This may make some of the more realistic amongst the rabble-rousers reconsider any planned action on the 9th.
Posted by Anonymous4052 2004-04-07 12:09:33 PM||   2004-04-07 12:09:33 PM|| Front Page Top

00:05 Zenster
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