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2004-04-06 Iraq-Jordan
Healing Iraq: Coup Underway In Baghdad, Elsewhere in Iraq
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Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-04-06 12:11:30 AM|| || Front Page|| [11124 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 My 2c worth. The West could walk away from Vietnam, becuase lets face it we can live without fish sauce. We can't walk away from the Gulf, because we can't live without the oil. We have to reach a solution where the oil still flows, even if its .com's 40k strip.
Posted by phil_b 2004-04-06 12:18:40 AM||   2004-04-06 12:18:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Phil,zeyad, updated his post later in the day.
UPDATE: Sorry for the depressing note. It seems like everything is back under control, at least from what I can see in my neighbourhood. There is an eerie silence outside, only dogs barking. Until about an hour ago, it sounded like a battlefield, and we had flashbacks of last April. I don't know what happened, but there were large plumes of smoke from the direction of Adhamiya and Kadhimiya. I wanted to take some pictures but my father and uncle both said they would shoot me on the spot if I tried, they were afraid the Apaches would mistake us for troublemakers and fire at us. I'm dreading tomorrow.
Posted by GK 2004-04-06 12:38:56 AM||   2004-04-06 12:38:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 This is the post I thought had gone into the memory hole; Fred, is it possible to move the comments to the other post?

And Phil_B: We could live without oil. All we'd have to do is build more nuclear plants and use them to make synfuels with. But we can't live without Lower Manhattan, and the dictatorships in the Middle East could make enough money selling oil to Japan and Western Europe to finance one hell of a terrorist campaign agaist us.
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-04-06 12:44:53 AM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-04-06 12:44:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 As I posted in reply to this article yesterday:

There are at most 5000 or so Sadr militant followers.

Many of the leaders were killed when they showed who they were.

The looting was opportunitic thuggery - no ideology involved, just greed.

Sadr is now a wanted criminal.

Sistani has condemned him and his followers.

They were holding children up as shields when coalition forces returned fire, in order to cause children to be killed.

This tells you the nature of Sadr and his leach holder sin Iraq.

As for "Tet"

No Ho Chi Minh trail

No Communist CHina next door.

No jungle canopy to fade thier logistics into.

No rebels fighting for freedom (They wnat to impose repression).

No General Giap on their side, no Johnson and Westmoreland micromanaging on our side.

In short: no Tet.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-04-06 12:48:16 AM||   2004-04-06 12:48:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 oops - wrote my reply while you were posting your correction request...
Posted by OldSpook 2004-04-06 1:02:13 AM||   2004-04-06 1:02:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I liked your point about Westmoreland and Johnson, Old Spook. You forgot MacNamara, though!

It's hard to imagine that three more linear, non-intuitive, inside the box thinkers ever lived. Leaders who can look into the chaos and find opportunity are rare. So far we seem to be blessed to have Bush and Rumsfield.
Posted by Anonymous4033 2004-04-06 1:37:23 AM||   2004-04-06 1:37:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 PF I agree with you but its been what 30 years since a new nuclear power plant has been built in the USA and most other Western countries. France and Canada being notable exceptions. I consider the objections to nuclear energy deeply irrational but I don't see that irrationality going away anytime soon.
Posted by phil_b 2004-04-06 2:10:06 AM||   2004-04-06 2:10:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 phil_b - the irrationality will mysteriously disappear when a majority of the people are sitting in the dark and shivering...

Then we can burn the LLL's furniture 'til the plants are online...
Posted by PBMcL 2004-04-06 2:36:34 AM||   2004-04-06 2:36:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 OldSpook

The problem never was the jungle, the NVA or General Giap. The problem was the Jane Fondas, the John Kerrys and the biased journalists who reported false news and destroyed America's will to fight. They are still there.
Posted by JFM  2004-04-06 4:48:06 AM||   2004-04-06 4:48:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 JFM, I think that Old Spook has pointed out that Johnson, McNamara and Johnson ignored Von Clauswitz's lesson about mobilizing the countries will. The counted the enemy KIA's and the outhouses bombed and as you pointed out, let the public opinion happen. They should have driven public opinion.
Posted by Super Hose  2004-04-06 5:03:58 AM||   2004-04-06 5:03:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Disagree JFM. General Giap was one hell of a problem.
Posted by Shipman 2004-04-06 8:51:30 AM||   2004-04-06 8:51:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 The sky is not falling!

"The sky is not falling. The decision to confront the Muqtada al-Sadr's challenge to rule-of-law and liberty will cause a short-term spike in violence, but lead to long-term improvement. Iraqis see any failure to defend rule-of-law as Coalition weakness. How could the United States be serious about democracy, Iraqis ask, when we left such a challenge to rule-of-law go unchallenged? Thankfully, Iraqis now know that we will meet challenges head-on. It is a lesson that should also be understood in Syria and Iran."
--Michael Rubin, NRO
Posted by Dragon Fly  2004-04-06 8:51:43 AM||   2004-04-06 8:51:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Shipman

General Giap was a problem but not THE problem: the leaders of North Vietnam were well aware, at least after Tet, that victory or defeat didn't depend on Giap's ability (the planned new Dien Bien Phu at Khe Sanh was a crushing defeat) but on the speed yellow livered "pacifists", caviar leftists and dishonest journalists were destroying popular support for war.

Read the chapter about Tet in Victor David HAnson's book "Carnage and culture"
Posted by JFM  2004-04-06 9:13:53 AM||   2004-04-06 9:13:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 I'll read the book JFM.... but still Giap was a General with the necessary gifts specific for the time/place. A tough SOB.
Posted by Shipman 2004-04-06 10:18:06 AM||   2004-04-06 10:18:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Phil - Maybe you can live without fish sauce. My life hasn't been the same...
Posted by Fred  2004-04-06 10:30:59 AM||   2004-04-06 10:30:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 I just read a news story on JFK & Jackie - he couldn't keep up his end of the bargain and fell asleep.

She liked MacNamara because they both liked poetry.
Posted by Anonymous2U 2004-04-06 11:11:33 AM||   2004-04-06 11:11:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 No blood for fish sauce.
Posted by Matt 2004-04-06 11:40:41 AM||   2004-04-06 11:40:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 OldSpook, when people compare this with TET they (at least I) mean that it will likely be a military victory for the US, that is spun and spun back home hoping to make it into a political defeat.

Oddly enough its a bit anti-tet if you compare the Marine situation. They are besieging Fallujia while during Tet they were under siege in Khe Shan .
Posted by Ruprecht 2004-04-06 11:59:02 AM||   2004-04-06 11:59:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Oops. The anonymous above is me.
Posted by 11A5S 2004-04-06 12:27:31 PM||   2004-04-06 12:27:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 No communist China, but there is Iran. Anyone who thinks that they are not Sadr's puppet master is kidding themselves. He may not be a good puppet all the time, but I'm pretty sure he is not calling the ultimate shots. I wonder how many of his Mahdi "army" are actually Iranian Revolutionary Guards. More than a few is my bet.

I just don't get the sense that Americans want to run away from this fight. Even the Dem's know that we can't just pull out. Fat Teddy may bloviate, but even he understands (I think) that we can't let Iraq devolve into a terrorist cesspool.
Posted by remote man 2004-04-06 12:45:44 PM||   2004-04-06 12:45:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 The sad thing is the bad guys probably think they can get the US to turn tail and run because of all the things the wacky left has said. I don't think the Iranians understand Kucinich is not taken seriously.
Posted by ruprecht 2004-04-06 7:30:29 PM||   2004-04-06 7:30:29 PM|| Front Page Top

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