Article

2007-03-24 Iraq

Officials: 9 to be held to account on Tillman

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Posted by Sherry 2007-03-24 00:35|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Sherry, it was a tangled web they wove. No one had the guts to tell the truth to Tillman's family until the lie was being questioned. Let this be a lesson to them.
Rangers are a pretty tight group, I doubt anyone of them feels good about friendly fire casualties (as opposed to fratricide, which infers a fragging).
Tillman, RIP. My hat's off to the talented who choose think of others before themselves.

Posted by Xenophon 2007-03-24 01:13|| 2007-03-24 01:13|| Front Page Top

#2 From what I heard, Tillman took a patrol group up on a ridge. Shots were fired and a second patrol group assumed it was an ambush from above and launched some volleys. In World War 2 Burma, RAF bombers were pulled out of the front line fight after it was found they were killing more of their own than Japs.

Posted by Sneaze 2007-03-24 07:26|| 2007-03-24 07:26|| Front Page Top

#3 My guess is Tillman did something a bit 'wrong' (against procedure, ill-advised, something) and got himself killed. Since he was a heroic figure nobody wanted to tarnish his image - or the reflection it had cast on the Army - so they let a more 'honorable' story go on how he was killed (sort of like that woman soldier who was captured & rescued in the early days of Iraq.) Those who knew probably figured it would be easier on everybody that way. Ordinarily they would have been correct. These are not ordinary times. Someone who did not like the Army got wind of the actual story and pushed for 'truth'. Other Army officers tried to control information flow and damage, but that only made it worse.
So here we are. Honorable careers wrecked. Army image tarnished. Genuine hero (life, if not battlefield) abused. Family's comforting illusion destroyed. Who 'wins' this exercise? The haters of the military. And to some degree, our enemies.
And don't give me the 'it needs to come out so we can prevent these friendly fire accidents in the future' - I am confident all that analysis was done anyway, but with public details 'sanitized.'

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-03-24 10:53|| 2007-03-24 10:53|| Front Page Top

#4 Coincidentally, The History Channel did a segment on Shootout about this very thing last night. According to them, there was a patrol of Rangers caught in the valley so Tilman, another Ranger, and an Afghan Ally managed to move ahead and yp the mountain. They ingageged the machine gun firing on the Rangers and that allowed one the leading vehicle to move out of the kill zone. The Rangers on the vehicle saw movement on the ridgeline, determined it was an Afghani, and opened fire thinking he was a combatant. He was killed. Tillman then stood up and began shouting to the Rangers but tehy couldn't hear du to the noise of their own weapons. Tillman then popped a smoke grenade and the firing stopped as the Rangers thought it was smoke from a mortar round. Tillman and the other Ranger, who was not identified in the story, then stood up and tried to signal again that they were friendlies. The Rangers in the vehicle the re-opened fire and Yillman was hit. The other Ranger was unwounded. What these Officers are accused of is trying to hide the fact he was killed due to friendly fire. His family wants the Rangers involved charged with involuntary manslaughter which is ludicrous and, unless they get a really anti-military Judge, won't go anywhere.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2007-03-24 10:58|| 2007-03-24 10:58|| Front Page Top

#5 Sometimes it's the right thing to do...

Years later, Tom Doniphon dies, after leading a lonely secluded life, having loved Hallie from a distance to the end. Stoddard has told the story to the local newspaper editor, who refuses to publish it. "When the legend becomes fact," he says, "print the legend."

Especially in time of war.

See Colin Kelly...

In times of crisis and doubt, heroes offer hope and certitude. In the fog of the war's first days, a 26-year-old Florida farm boy provided a stirring measure of bravery to an America desperate for a hero: Colin Purdie Kelly, Jr. For the duration, editorial writers and war bond promoters summoned Americans to cherish his name and deed. Today, he is virtually unknown to anyone under age 70.

In the afterglow of Pearl Harbor, Japanese forces targeted the biggest prize in Southeast Asia, the Philippines. A series of land and aerial assaults quickly overwhelmed U.S. installations, deflating Gen. MacArthur's reputation and deepening American pessimism.

What happened on that fateful December day became embedded in military lore and popular culture. More than one movie script adapted the storyline, even as the story changed.

As Americans drank their morning coffee (soon to be rationed, along with the sugar that once came from the Philippines), they read the first Associated Press account of Kelly ordering his crew to parachute from a burning plane and how he piloted "his craft straight down at the enemy and released a stick of high explosives almost into the mouths of flaming Japanese guns."

Incredibly, Kelly saved his crew and then sank a Japanese battleship by ramming it with his plane The New York Times solemnized the moment and deed: "And the Philippines are producing something more powerful than victory itself, tradition. The tradition of Colin Kelly, who destroyed the Haruna . .

Posted by Shipman">Shipman 2007-03-24 11:10|| 2007-03-24 11:10|| Front Page Top

#6 this was a top down problem, hell they were watching the whole scenario unfold on the satelite , there's something that still smells in Denmark.

Posted by George Grolurong3861 2007-03-24 11:43|| 2007-03-24 11:43|| Front Page Top

#7 hey shit happens, The platoon on orders split into two groups. Add to that there was Talibs or A-Q fire, a Narrow canyon and a Humvee broke down. As always events with lots of people and machines in a combat zone are fluid.

Even though this is a CNN link I think the various versions sound reasonable. Likny RIP Pat

Posted by RD 2007-03-24 14:00|| 2007-03-24 14:00|| Front Page Top

#8 The sad thing is that it was "investigated" period. The commander's report should have stood and the lawyers and Inspector Generals should have steered clear of it. Pentagon risk- averse (not on my watch) senior officers are to blame. Not the Rangers, not the people in the theater of operations. Vietnam was a war run from the rear, lest we forget.

Posted by Besoeker 2007-03-24 14:10|| 2007-03-24 14:10|| Front Page Top

#9 Vietnam was a war run from the rear, lest we forget.

Indeed, Besoeker. That was the lesson I thought we had finally learned.

I've got nothing against those not on the front line, many find their way forward in due time, but they until they've been there and done that they should not be allowed to call the shots on these matters. Well said, all.

RIP, Pat.

Posted by Nero Shuper3237 2007-03-24 14:50|| 2007-03-24 14:50|| Front Page Top

#10 Tillman was a warrior and a good ranger, no question. Soldiers die from friendly fire, a sad fact of life. Combat is confusing, frightening, and in combat things like this happen. I just don't understand why the commanders allowed a questionable version out before they got to the bottom of it. By allowing a half truth out allows the left to tear at our integrity. If they knew it was frat, accidental or not, and the commanders covered it up they deserve to get hammered for their actions. Good bad or otherwise we only have our integrity as commanders and no matter the outcome integrity can never be compromised.

Posted by 49 Pan 2007-03-24 22:12|| 2007-03-24 22:12|| Front Page Top

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