Article

2004-03-17 Afghanistan/South Asia

Pakistani Hillbillies Have Captured 250 Hostages

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Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-03-17 7:43:57 AM|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 if this is true then the paks have goofed up fairly badly,shame

Posted by Jon Shep U.K 2004-3-17 7:48:15 AM|| 2004-3-17 7:48:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 This is going to roll and roll - as you say Shep, this will make for an interesting Spring. Read Howard Marks' 'Mr Nice'? There are a good couple of chapters where he rolls up in the Pak wild west to buy a few tonnes of hash. These tribal guys are mental, 'kin hard and a total law unto themselves. I think they gave the Brits a kicking in the 19th century too.

Re: OBL - Reckon we might be getting warm?

Posted by Howard UK 2004-3-17 7:57:16 AM|| 2004-3-17 7:57:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 OBL is a matter of time, either before he's found alive or someone shows us his grave.My problem with the Osamas dead theory is that surly they'd have a hard time keeping something like that a secret, he's there idol.Who knows how thier tiny brains operate eh. tribal guys may be hard when faced with a guy buying some dope but it becomes a differant story when faced with the coalitions incredably advanced tactics,training and technology. If i was a Pak tribesman the sound of a C-130 over head would cause me to dig a big spider hole and call that my new home and never leave, for if you do either a rain of heavy calibre gunfire from a Herky Gunship or if you lucky a MOAB from the other type of spec forces Herky. very scary indeed. :)

Posted by Jon Shep U.K 2004-3-17 8:03:52 AM|| 2004-3-17 8:03:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Sigh, if only we could get our boys in there. (Be naive to imagine we aren't). I say go with the MOABs personally.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-3-17 8:11:01 AM|| 2004-3-17 8:11:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 MOABs and daisy cutters are nice but 1 shot per flight. I love the latest thinking from Air force wise heads in America who would like to fit directed energy weapons to Herky gunships, Microwaved Pak anyone?

Posted by Jon Shep U.K 2004-3-17 8:18:55 AM|| 2004-3-17 8:18:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Yes yes yes.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-3-17 8:21:08 AM|| 2004-3-17 8:21:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Or we could use the directed energy to make them go insane... oh...uh... nevermind.

Posted by mhw 2004-3-17 8:29:35 AM|| 2004-3-17 8:29:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 i thought they already tried the MOAB and Daisy cutter aproach in the past..Without succes.

Posted by lyot 2004-3-17 8:30:47 AM|| 2004-3-17 8:30:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 good point there Iyot, not sure how effective they are in terms of blast radius and patter in a mountinous area,one of the nukes dumped on japan wasn't as effective as it could have been due to the effects of terrain on the blast pattern. Perhaps the higher mountin alltitude also effects blast effects to (would it be better or worse). Perhaps having them set to airburst at say 1000 feet or even higher would be just as bad due to down pressures and shit. New thought - A thermobaric MOAB, now that really would be evil. :)

Posted by Jon Shep U.K 2004-3-17 8:38:19 AM|| 2004-3-17 8:38:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 If a terrorist survives by staying on the move, taking 250 hostages is a last resort. The prisoners are extra luggage that inhibits future skaddadling. Hostage taking also is a gamble that the government of Pakistan will consider the lives of the hostages to be of valuable. In a society where honor killing continues to exist, respect for human life is an assumption not a given.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-3-17 12:02:02 PM|| 2004-3-17 12:02:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 if this trend continues then US forces will be heavily involved in the area soon. it still surprises me how long we have waited. at the onset of the afgan war when pakland was in the crosshairs it should of been made clear - this are will be cleared! it is not like it was a mystery.

Posted by Dan 2004-3-17 12:36:22 PM|| 2004-3-17 12:36:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I don't understand how simple (albeit well armed) wood cutters could best the elite Pakis Scouts. I think there's a litte sand bagging.

Posted by Shipman 2004-3-17 1:03:55 PM|| 2004-3-17 1:03:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 My guess is the US forces are on the Afghanistan side of the border waiting for the game to be flushed in their direction. Some of the troublemakers see the situation and are trying the hostage route rather than get caught between the paks and Yanks.

Posted by ruprecht 2004-3-17 1:35:36 PM|| 2004-3-17 1:35:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 SH et al - from the article it doesnt seem that the AQ's took the hostages, but that local Pashtuns did. Unlike the AQ, they arent keen on running to the mountains to live in caves - they have like families, and so forth. They assumed they could keep their nice little tribal life, while sheltering the AQ, perhaps with a payoff, cause the Pakis would never go there in force. Now that the Pakis ARE there, theyre desperate. So they figure taking hostages might disincent Perv.

Unlikely to get US troops in their openly as long as Pakis seem to be making progress. Indeed there was probably some threat of that to incent Perv to do this, and take it seriously. One hopes that there are some Spec ops around, if anyone senior makes a run for the mountains -doubt the Pakis have any capabilities there, and even if they did, we wouldnt trust them on that.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-3-17 2:03:49 PM|| 2004-3-17 2:03:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 One Buff, fully loaded, at max altitude. You guys just don't have a CLUE how absolutely horrible that kind of warfare is. Not only would the Waziris surrender, most of them would want to become coastal fishermen.

If the ground shaking and the constant explosions are enough to make you want to shit your pants from 20 miles away, consider what it must be like "up close and personal"??? If you can find one, ask any NVA or Viet Cong survivor how HE/SHE felt about Arclight. I'm sure you'll get an earfull, or be witness to someone suddenly cringing into the dirt at your feet.

Both actual and psychological warfare at its most intense.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-3-17 3:22:19 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-3-17 3:22:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I think these guys were hardcore beardies put on the border by the Brits to protect the Empire from the chaos in Afghanistan. Pure bandit country:

Inhabiting the region are the Waziris, reputedly one of the most warlike tribes living along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.

It has nine clans, with the biggest being Zali Khel, famed for its armed resistance to the British army in the 19th century.

Waziristan was described by a former British Army officer around that time as "a land of high and difficult hills, deep and rugged defiles, brave and hardy people, independent and patriotic."

From the personally beloved and much maligned Aunty Beeb

Patriot: Arclight?

Posted by Howard UK 2004-3-17 5:06:06 PM|| 2004-3-17 5:06:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Sounds like we're gonna need some Finns.

Posted by Shipman 2004-3-17 5:41:38 PM|| 2004-3-17 5:41:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 one of the nukes dumped on japan wasn't as effective as it could have been due to the effects of terrain on the blast pattern.

There was an eyewitness account by a POW of the drop on Hiroshima. He survived because his group was working on the other side of a mountain ridge.

Looks like this is going to be Apache (the tribe, not the helo) territory...

Posted by Pappy 2004-3-17 9:09:40 PM|| 2004-3-17 9:09:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Howard, ARCLIGHT was a code-name for a particular type of bombing pattern. I helped pick and evaluate ARCLIGHT boxes. Each box is 6-8 miles long, 2.5 to 3 miles wide. ARCLIGHT was ALWAYS flown as a three-ship cell, each ship a B-52D with 106 750lb bombs. The ones on the wingtip pylons were equipped with 6-ft fuse extenders. Aircraft flew separated by 100ft in an inverted "V", and usually flew at max altitude - for a fully-loaded Buff, that was about 42,000 feet. Each aircraft dropped one bomb ever 1/4 of a second until the run was completed. It left an area of roughly 15-16 square miles nothing but churned gravel.

The one ARCLIGHT Strike I observed was almost 20 miles away, and it was enough to knock me to my knees. It's supposed to be able to kill someone instantly (shock effect) up to a mile either side of the box. The cave we were in was NOT your usual karst formation, and it shook so badly we risked being seen by crawling out - afraid the roof would collapse (it didn't). It did have a nasty effect on the bad guys we were watching - most of them (like us!) had headaches, were depressed, and had a hard time functioning normally for a couple of days. It's something I would ONLY wish on my worst enemies, but Wahabbi fundamentals have made themselves right at home in that spot.

Unfortunately, we don't have an "D" model Buffs left, and the remaining "G" and "H" models can "only" carry 86 weapons each. SO I'd recommend adding a fourth ship to the cell, and giving an entire tribe a taste of just how nasty modern warfare can be - without notice.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-3-17 10:24:41 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-3-17 10:24:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Many thanks for clearing that one up for me, Patriot. I will keep any mention of munitions to a minimum in the future in the realisation that there are readers who have witnessed this at first hand and understand the terror inflicted. It's John Shep that brings out the rabid bloodthirsty loon in me... makes you wonder what they did at the Tora Bora caves then? That must have been a particular treat. Regards, H.

Posted by Howard UK 2004-3-18 4:22:32 AM|| 2004-3-18 4:22:32 AM|| Front Page Top

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