Article

2003-03-02 Iraq

No plans for new Turkey vote on US troops

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Posted by Fred Pruitt 2003-03-02 08:50 am|| || Front Page|| [11128 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 How paranoid would it be to wonder if Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria cut a deal to divide up the NWFP amongst themselves? Sadaam knows he can't control it anyway, so it's no loss to him. I hope that's not even a remote possiblity.

Posted by becky 2003-03-02 09:12:57|| 2003-03-02 09:12:57|| Front Page Top

#2 My guess would be it's a result of the Islamist control of parliament, coupled with assiduous lobbying by Iraq and probably the Soddies. I think they really did choose up sides here, and theat they expect to get paid by the eventual winners. They just don't expect the eventual winners to be us.

Posted by Fred 2003-03-02 09:18:51|| 2003-03-02 09:18:51|| Front Page Top

#3 As a forefighter of democracy the American public should respect the voting, though I expected (as did the US government) that my country would follow as usually the US like a tail, I am quite happy that democracy did its job. I think there are lot of people looking at their nose right now to see that the generals in Turkey don't have the assumed power they thought to have. However I think also that the Bush administration will push our government for a second voting.

regards

Posted by Murat 2003-03-02 10:27:33|| 2003-03-02 10:27:33|| Front Page Top

#4 Fox News Sunday, Tony Snow interviewed Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Ks), who said Turkey would have another vote Tuesday(?). Possibly someone powerful, and less Islamic, had an epiphany? The implications may have sunk in....

Posted by Frank G 2003-03-02 10:47:12|| 2003-03-02 10:47:12|| Front Page Top

#5 Extremely paranoid to take control of the NWFP, perhaps Kurdistan? Oh, too late, it's already done...

Posted by Brian 2003-03-02 11:05:20|| 2003-03-02 11:05:20|| Front Page Top

#6 Gee, if the High UNSC can have 18 votes on the same subject, why can't the govt of Turkey take its time too. It's not like we yanked money from the UN when they diddled around for the past 11 years.

This is what happens when military leaders keep on padding the plans with more and more needs and options based upon fear. They are absolutely blind to the political consequences which these delays ensue. Keep It Simple Stupid [KISS] is a miltary term for a reason. To paraphrase US Grant - "Oh, I am heartily tired of hearing about what Lee is going to do. Some of you always seem to think he suddenly going to turn a double somersault, and land in our rear and on both our flanks at the same time. Go back to your command, and try to think what we are going to do ourselves, instead of what Lee is going to do." Just pull out the ground troops from Turkey and get on with business. Use the division as the follow on reserve when they finally reach Kuwait, but don't hold up the offensive waiting for them.

Posted by Don 2003-03-02 11:20:29|| 2003-03-02 11:20:29|| Front Page Top

#7 We will still take down Saddam from the south. It'll take a little longer, but it's basically a done deal. What Turkey's vote WILL do is make it harder for American troops to get to northern Iraq, and to Kurdish areas. American troops as a buffer between Turkish and Kurdish troops at least had a chance for cooling down this on the border timberbox post-Saddam. Now that seems like it will be a purely Turkish headache. Well, if they really really want that all to themselves, then they can have it.

Of course, there is always time for Turkey to reconsider; it is their country, and their call to make. I do hope they make the right one. Because outside of outright ethnic cleansing of Kurdish areas (a definite no-no in the post Slobo world), Turkey is in for an endless occupation of Kurdistan, ten times the size of Cyprus, that it can ill afford.

Posted by Dave 2003-03-02 12:27:44|| 2003-03-02 12:27:44|| Front Page Top

#8 well Murat, the veil falls, and the spittle begins? 19 abstentions? that's not voting, that's fear of whacked out Islamic retribution. Let's see what the new week brings and thanks for clearing up your stand. Should Turkey stay with the rejection, then they have chosen the stick instead of the carrot. They can expect that we might find new, and more faithful (in the crunch) allies...have fun. Oh, and those tanker trucks going to Mosul? You won't need them anymore

Posted by Frank G 2003-03-02 14:25:06|| 2003-03-02 14:25:06|| Front Page Top

#9 Murat, you guys might have just put the final nail into NATO. And we want our equipment back.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-03-02 13:05:56|| 2003-03-02 13:05:56|| Front Page Top

#10 It was Bush who pressured elections in Islamania under Khalifa-Rashdun conditions, with 40-60% open public support for al-Qaeda. Until Americans shake him out of his quixotic fantasy about his nominal pre-destined role to unite the common-religions-of-Abraham under American values, his follies will impose further costs on Americans, with a stronger enemy the dubious benefit. Test of resolve: FAILED.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/878520.asp?

Posted by Anon 2003-03-02 13:10:45|| 2003-03-02 13:10:45|| Front Page Top

#11 It's time to support a strong Kurdish State in East Turkey-North Iraq. Just to let them live free from the threats of genocide and have two new good allies, the democratic Iraq and the free Kurdistan. History has shown that our... fear to disturb the muslim states always ends up in being a very dangerous appeasement. Whoever does not help us in our war against terrorism and terrorism supporting states is not neutral, is a bastard, sorry, an enemy.
(Note: 732 A.D., at the battle of Poitiers, Charles the Hammer stops the muslim invasion of Europe. Not a relative of ChiraQ anyway)

Posted by Poitiers 2003-03-02 13:26:24|| 2003-03-02 13:26:24|| Front Page Top

#12 First we have to accept any democratic voting, it is really shamefull to see some readers here acting so arrogant to think that democracy doesnât exist outside the US. Secondly Bush is not a tactful politician (in fact he is more a trigger happy cowboy) as he has not the succes and simpathy of Clinton outside the US, I donât know how it is inside the US. He set of a lot of angred blood in Turkey calling the Turkish call for compensation of the damage the US brings with every war she starts in the middle east a horsetrading and randsom, all the blackmailing with threathening to establish a Kurdistan was the other dimension. One can see this as an answer to Bush from the Turkish parliament: stick your so called randsom right up in your â¦.., and stop making us sick with all your blackmailing and bluffing. The US has since the republicans took the governing gone out of control acting in a pool of paranoya, get a schrink will ya.

Posted by Murat 2003-03-02 14:05:26|| 2003-03-02 14:05:26|| Front Page Top

#13 If the Turks want to be treated like grownups they have to act like grownups, not least by acting on their actual interests instead of puerile anti-Americanism. So, let's see, war with American $ and support, or war without it? Because "no war" is off the table.

If legislators (not the military, I assume) prefer "sticking it to the man", they'll have to live with the consequences of that.

Posted by someone 2003-03-02 14:27:45|| 2003-03-02 14:27:45|| Front Page Top

#14 Murat, We can accept democratic voting. But we don't have to like it, and we don't have to reward it. Clinton not trigger happy? What about Kosovo? - bombing in support of the Albanian mafia - Chinese embassy bombing, Wesley Clark threatening to fight the Russians - Iraq (several times to no effect), Sudan, Afghanistan, Haiti. Clinton may have had "success and sympathy outside the US" but that is only because other countries sensed that he was a marshmellow, he was unscupulous, he was unwilling to stand up for US interests anywhere.
If Bush was a trigger-happy cowboy, about six foriegn capitals would have been radioactive craters on September 12, 2001. Bush's foriegn policy has been slow and deliberate. He gave his Iraq speech at the UN on Sep. 12, 2002 - a year after the attacks! Counting from that date the "rush to war" has lasted nearly six months.

If you can produce on single quote of G.W.Bush's where he called the Turkish compensation "horsetrading and ransom" I will be very much shocked. In fact, I believe you will find that Bush has not publicly commented on it at all. Ditto with an independant Kurdistan - he has never, ever advocated that.

You need a dictionary. The Bush admin is neither blackmailing nor bluffing. Blackmail is a payment in response to a threat. It is not a payment in compensation for inconvenience. It is not a payment for services rendered. Bluffing is making threats without any intention (or capability) of making good on those threats. The US has the capability and, I believe, will follow through.

The US has not gone out of control since the Republicans took over. They have restored a responsible foriegn policy instead of Clintons. On the military front, it appears that Bush was headed towards a more cautious stance, almost isolationist. They even studied ending the no-fly zones in Iraq. Until 9-11-01. America is awakend. If you don't like it, blame the terrorists.

Unless you believe that the 9-11 attacks are symptoms of our "paranoia", as you call it.

If you wish to debate the morality of a war in Iraq, fine. But it is better for your position if your argument is it is not filled with innuendo, half-truths and distortion.

Posted by Pete Stanley 2003-03-02 14:27:59|| 2003-03-02 14:27:59|| Front Page Top

#15 I can't get too mad about this seeing as it was submitted to a vote; that you have to respect.

However, this also means that we have to respect the nationalist aspiration of the Kurds. Ankara needs to be warned to keep out of the way in no uncertain terms.

Posted by Hiryu 2003-03-02 14:59:59|| 2003-03-02 14:59:59|| Front Page Top

#16 The Turkish legislative body has voted and that is it. We in the US need to accept that and move on. The thing that really wicks me off is the bloody haggling over the price of loyalty. A post-Saddam Iraq would have big benefits to Turkey, read pipeline fees plus stability. But we must move on, having been reshown the lesson that you cannot really buy friendship. I'm sure that our military has already readjusted to the reality. You cannot hold up a big operation like this with a bunch of haggling like merchants.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2003-03-02 15:27:01|| 2003-03-02 15:27:01|| Front Page Top

#17 Wonder how thw financial markets in Turkey will fare on Monday? Maybe it will be a wake-up call for a few of those who abstained.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-03-02 15:31:31|| 2003-03-02 15:31:31|| Front Page Top

#18 I'm thinking a new pipeline through Jordan and Israel to Haifa? That'll cause some heartburn

Posted by Frank G 2003-03-02 15:32:37|| 2003-03-02 15:32:37|| Front Page Top

#19 OK this may be way out there... but what if Turkey got a better deal from the French, Germans & Russians, and in turn was told to bar US troops. Now what if the Russians are planning their own invasion of Iraq from the north via Turkey, to make sure the triad (F-G-R) isn't completely shut out of any future plans for Iraq. I sure would like to see the intel on Russian troop movements. They're crazy enough to do this.

Posted by RW 2003-03-02 15:47:55|| 2003-03-02 15:47:55|| Front Page Top

#20 Slightly OT, but it appears with Russia's veto threat that we have not cut them any deal either with oiiiiilll in a post-Saddam Iraq. Frank's idea of a pipeline through Jordan and Israel seems to be a reach, but with Sammy gone, Syria sanitized, and some of the other axis of evil folks dealt with, we may have some stability for this. Hmmmmm.............

Posted by Alaska Paul 2003-03-02 16:22:42|| 2003-03-02 16:22:42|| Front Page Top

#21 Murat, of course we can accept the democratic vote of the Turkish parliament. We'll respect your decision, we'll just continue to work against it.

After all, I don't hear all these calls from Europe to respect American democracy when we vote against the Kyoto Treaty, or anything. Rather, I've seen a lot of ridiculous accusations like your own. Oh well. Seems like you're the paranoid one.

Posted by John Thacker 2003-03-02 17:05:34|| 2003-03-02 17:05:34|| Front Page Top

#22 Hold a minute, the Army hasn't spoken.

There are a lot of American aircraft already in Turkey. Lots of troops and equipment already unloaded. NATO stuff in place.

What I can see happening is an expedited movement of US personnel and material into Norther Iraq, before the politicians can react. The Army must protect the state and it cannot protect the state from the results of this action if it is let stand. Remember, the Turks plan to have troops in Northern Iraq. Under the current circumstances, I suspect troops movements might be treated as hostile by the United States.

Posted by Chuck 2003-03-02 20:09:26|| [blog.simmins.org] 2003-03-02 20:09:26|| Front Page Top

#23 Interesting.... veddy, veddy, interesting...or should I say ..perplexing? They kissed $16 Billion! goodbye, rejected our assurances to assist with Kurds and refugees and also kissed goodbye our pro-Turkey post-Iraq solutions. Considering the might of our army and Bush's resolve to invade Iraq (with or without them), it's a very, VERY strange result. Unless, for reasons unclear they think they can totally screw us, it certainly is odd that they turned down the goodies we were offering when the end result will probably be the same. Wish I knew the "more to the story", cause there has to be one.

Posted by becky 2003-03-02 21:39:39|| 2003-03-02 21:39:39|| Front Page Top

#24 MY,my,Murat
Such an emotional outburst,from an otherwise rational person.
Turkey's decision came about through Democratic process,Murat.I think you will see that most of us support that process,we may not like Turkey's decsion but it was arrived at democraticlly.
Now the question we Americans have to ask ourselves is "why".
What does Turkey have to gain in alligning with the Russ+Franco+German aliiance?

Posted by raptor 2003-03-03 07:06:54|| 2003-03-03 07:06:54|| Front Page Top

07:06 raptor
06:28 raptor
01:13 Anonymous Great Leader
01:04 Anonymous Great Leader
00:39 Rex Mundi
00:36 Ben
00:31 HULUGU
00:27 Rex Mundi
00:00 mojo
23:46 mojo
23:44 mojo
23:07 Bodyguard
21:52 Denny
21:39 becky
21:15 becky
20:52 mhw
20:43 Steve White
20:38 Steve White
20:13 Ptah
20:09 Chuck
19:56 john
19:45 Crescend
19:41 Dishman
19:39 Frank G