Article

2005-02-02 Terror Networks & Islam

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Posted by Steve 2005-02-02 9:56:48 AM|| || Front Page|| [11139 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Prince Charles raised this issue a few weeks ago (this is the only good thing I can remember Prince Charles ever doing).

I hope this issue reaches cable news soon. It is long past time.

Posted by mhw 2005-02-02 10:43:29 AM|| 2005-02-02 10:43:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 It is a weakling faith that must protect itself by killing/punishing/terrorizing/ostracizing those who want to leave it.

I personally dont see how muslims can leave this practice behind when their own so called prophet explicitly taught and practiced the killing, punishment and harrassment of those who tried to leave islam.

But i guess even so, this must not be the so called "real" islam, right? Because the "real" islam is no better no worse than any other faith (sar)

Jesus never taught that apostasy was punishable by the death penalty or any other penalty. This is why Christians could leave behind such laws which were instituted by Christian leaders long after Jesus. Christians can go to our foundational teachings and find no such laws or practices. muslims can't so they are forced to try and justify them somehow and are forced to force these laws on our nations.

PS,

Unfortunately, I must add what should simply be understood about me by now. Just because I believe my faith to be the best faith does not mean that I must necessarily think that no other faith has any value or that they do not also have wisdom. Maybe this will head off the usual off- topic arguments and keep this thread on track.

Posted by peggy 2005-02-02 11:34:42 AM|| 2005-02-02 11:34:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 âI used to be very aggressive,â she said. âNow, I am more patientâand spiritually fulfilled.â

She apparently patiently awaits the moment when she can project sanctioned aggression in slicing kufr's throat to exercise her spiritual fulfillment.

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-02-02 11:48:50 AM|| 2005-02-02 11:48:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 The only branch of Islam where there's no penalty for apostasy ('s between you and god) is Ahmadiyya.
But then, they are considered kufrs by all other.
They can't even list their religion as Islam and are subject to blasphemy laws upon drop of a hat on whimsiest pretexts, like greeting someone with "Salaam Aleikum".

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-02-02 12:03:13 PM|| 2005-02-02 12:03:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Freedom of religion. You are free to convert to Islam, and there ends the freedom. Is this just the Islamofascists, or is it the main (silent)body of adherents to the religion of peace?

Posted by Hank 2005-02-02 12:11:45 PM|| 2005-02-02 12:11:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Isn't it odd how CAIR and the MSM leave this little tidbit of information (that leaving Islam is a death sentence) from their 'Islam means peace!' pronouncements?

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-02-02 12:15:04 PM|| 2005-02-02 12:15:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 I remember this article. I also fisked it quite handily. Apparently this woman does not get along with her devoutly Catholic mother and she wears some muslim thing on her person around her mother even though her mother is clearly distressed by it.

It just screams out from the article that this person has never really stopped rebelling against mommie and this is just the latest manifestation. I'll bet that she was raised by her mom with no father too and islam is now her daddy.

She also strikes me as an incredible flake. But thats par for the course.

I have also wondered about the role that mild depression may play in conversions of any kind. So often the converts describe feelings of emptiness in their previous situations. Its possible that it isn't because the new religion is so true and good but because the simpl change in life patterns and environment was the thing needed to break that particular cycle of the blues. This is then blown up into some kind of life changing experience.

Now when someone's life really changes as in being a criminal to never committing another crime again or as in an addict suddenly being healed of their addictions etc then that is a different order of life change. Unfortunately we dont see much of this in the "testimonies" of muslim converts. Their criminal converts most of the time just end up committing different crimes ala Richard Reid and Jose Padilla and if they were addicts it was prison that dried them out not islam. Flaky lefties or radical law and order righties with vague feelings of emptiness and wrongness seem to be pretty much par for the course otherwise.

Posted by peggy 2005-02-02 12:48:44 PM|| 2005-02-02 12:48:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 What would you expect from a religion whose very name means "submission"? CAIR means "peace" through submission. Like a peaceful slave.

Posted by Tom 2005-02-02 1:03:00 PM|| 2005-02-02 1:03:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I'm probably in a tiny minority, not only on Rantburg but more generally, in that I think the only way for Islam to save itself is for a massive apostacy movement to be created. IMO, only under the an existentual threat can Islam deal successfully with the Islamofacism threat.

Posted by mhw 2005-02-02 1:29:30 PM|| 2005-02-02 1:29:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 mhw,

you're not alone. This could well be the key. Only I am pretty sure that islam would not survive the freedom to convert out of it and still be as major a religion as it is today. It would take a while for sure but it would probably drop to the next tier as a sizable faith but not in a competetive position anymore. This is not to say that Christianity would become overwhelmingly dominant in the world as former muslims could easily swell the ranks of other faiths as well. I think that a good balance might come of such a movement and the world would be much better off. islam gets more problematic the larger and more dominant it gets. If it was cut down several notches it would probably not present as many problems.

Posted by peggy 2005-02-02 1:42:10 PM|| 2005-02-02 1:42:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 seems islam keeps people islamic through fear (of the consequences of leaving the faith) and hate (of others). How enlightened.

What would a religion be like if it based itself on "love thy neighbor." Hmmm . . . .

Posted by PlanetDan 2005-02-02 2:40:18 PM|| 2005-02-02 2:40:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Planet Dan,

Or how about one based on this

"Love thy enemy and pray for those who persecute you"

Ooops! I think we are talking about the same one! ; )

Posted by peggy 2005-02-02 3:54:46 PM|| 2005-02-02 3:54:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Peggy, "love thy neighbor" is fairly easy to achieve in comparison with "Love thy enemy and pray for those who persecute you".

I am content with the fact that I must be somewhat un-enlightened by considering your version a bit unpractical. I would probably pray for those that prosecute me, though. Does it matter what would be the subject of the prayer? I have some ideas. :-)

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-02-02 4:01:49 PM|| 2005-02-02 4:01:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Hmmmm

Now how is this for contrast? A religion which can be summed up as the following:

"Love only thy co-religionist neighbors. Treat them extra special. But if they want to change their mind about believing, then you can kill them. Also, be extra nice to those who aren't in your religion in order to make your faith look good to them so that they'll buy the whole thing. Love the whole world unless it gets in the way of the spread of the truth of our faith. Then you may lie to and kill whoever gets in the way and do whatever it takes to win. Since all of these teachings came right out of the mouth of our founder you can be sure that it would be blasphemy to say that he was wrong and if you do you will be killed with the rest of the uppity infidels who dont realize what a good deal it is to be second class citizens in our system."

I wonder what faith that could be?

Posted by peggy 2005-02-02 4:11:35 PM|| 2005-02-02 4:11:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Sobiesky,

"Love thy enemy" may be a high ideal for us but the founder of the Christian faith lived it and died it. So have many saintly Christians since.

Jesus didn't talk out of both sides of his mouth. He didn't receive some convenient new teaching to justify himself every time he did something that might be considered immoral by any objective standard. He didn't hair split saying its best to tell the truth but if you get in a real jam then its ok to lie etc. Although he knew most of his followers would disappoint him, and we mostly have in spectacular fashion, he nevertheless refused to water down his ideal or let us off the hook. No Christian can ever be comfortable with how we measure up to Christ. Thanks be to God.

Posted by peggy 2005-02-02 4:20:42 PM|| 2005-02-02 4:20:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 There have been a few conversions to Islam for people in prison in the U.S. The religion seems to attract those that are despondent. Islam also seems to attract young people here with screwed up family backgrounds. I cannot see that Islam is a religion of love and peace. This woman who converted seems to be adolescent and "flaky" as someone said. I also don't see a revolt (apostasy) in Islam.

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-02-02 4:25:18 PM|| 2005-02-02 4:25:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 This must be one of the stories where Muslims change when pigs fly.

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-02-02 5:14:01 PM|| 2005-02-02 5:14:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 ...are subject to blasphemy laws upon drop of a hat on whimsiest pretexts, like greeting someone with "Salaam Aleikum".

Can you elaborate? Why would this be blasphemy? Doesn't it mean something like "peace be with you"? Are only Muslims supposed to greet people with this phrase?

Posted by Angie Schultz 2005-02-02 7:06:52 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2005-02-02 7:06:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 In Saudi, once familiar enough and comfortable in doing so, expats greet their Muslim "friends" with the phrase - so I think Sobiesky is referring to known "kufr Muslims" (Ahmadiyya) using it and generating a response that it's blasphemy coming from this source.

I think a close-to-home parallel for this attitude might be that it's okay for a black man to call another black man "nigger", but...

Posted by .com 2005-02-02 7:13:47 PM|| 2005-02-02 7:13:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 NY Times reprint
Dr. Shaikh is one of several hundred people facing execution in Pakistan from this modern Islamic Inquisition. Many are religious minorities who sometimes are sentenced to death simply for using the standard greeting of the Islamic world, "as-salaam aleikum." That means "peace be with you," but militants say the phrase is reserved for Muslims.

Posted by ed 2005-02-02 7:15:47 PM|| 2005-02-02 7:15:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 I think another example would be if some Eurodinkfuckchildwannabee from Grease started referring to everyone in RB as "yall" or assumed he could lecture Americans on the subtleties of our politics, culture, language, etc. never having been here or knowing dick about what he's saying.

[ed not: nobody in the South would ass the apostrophe - the subtle test for kufr Rebels, lol]

Posted by .com 2005-02-02 7:20:23 PM|| 2005-02-02 7:20:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 [ed note: nobody in the South would add the apostrophe - the subtle test for kufr Rebels, lol]

Preview is your friend, they say.

Posted by .com 2005-02-02 7:21:41 PM|| 2005-02-02 7:21:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Wouldn't it be more like non-muslims under muslim control (heretical Ahmadiyyas or Pakistani Christians) but not westerners whose government could bring heat upon the Islamist miscreants? Seems if you can fight back, you can call them anything you want.

Posted by ed 2005-02-02 7:26:12 PM|| 2005-02-02 7:26:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Well, I was referring to an interchange between "friends", ed. I don't think the politics had anything to do with it.

Come to think of it, even non-friends were pleased by it - when I went to buy a truck in '92 I was greeted with the phrase and reciprocated with the reverse, "Alikum Sala'am" - which made the salesman smile and immediately offer me tea. If you don't want tea and endless (4 hrs, lol!) haggling mixed with conversation and you're willing to pay top dollar, you can get out with your vehicle in, say, 2 hrs tops, lol!

Posted by .com 2005-02-02 7:39:31 PM|| 2005-02-02 7:39:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Islam never had a Protestant Reformation - they need their Martin Luther. THe refomation spawned independant Protestant churches, and it forced Catholicism (up until that time Catholicism = Christianity) to look at its self harshly and reform if it were to survive.

The Reformation was good for all concerned in the long run.

Islam has no central ideaology - and is split into 2 camps (Sunni, Shiite) that can only seem to get ahead by "out-fundamentalizing" each other. No room for a reformation without getting killed by both of the main sides.

Until there is someone pwoerful, brave and wise enough to reform Islam, we will continue to see abominations liek Salafi, Tawhid and Wahbbism eating away at the world like a cancer based on hate of anyeon that believes even one bit differently.

Posted by Johnny 5 2005-02-02 8:40:36 PM|| 2005-02-02 8:40:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Angie, Can you elaborate? Why would this be blasphemy? Doesn't it mean something like "peace be with you"? Are only Muslims supposed to greet people with this phrase?

If you wanna beat a dog, you'll always find a stick.

Here is the word of mooselimb expert:

The name al-Salaam is a Name of Allaah, may He be exalted, so the meaning of the greeting of salaam which is required among Muslims is, "May the blessing of His Name descend upon you." The usage of the preposition 'ala in 'alaykum (upon you) indicates that the greeting is inclusive.

This is a very very good greeting words to use. Kufirs can not use the greetings of peace to one another because they are not at peace with each other. Therefore there would be absolutely false greeting if the world would try greeting each other with peace. Especially the Western world. Therefore the greeting of peace is the greeting of those whom we call the righteous, who are always at peace with God, and at peace with man, and peace with himself. Therefore they are justified in using this greeting of peace which is the greatest greeting words that we know of.

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-02-02 9:21:20 PM|| 2005-02-02 9:21:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Kufirs can not use the greetings of peace to one another because they are not at peace with each other.

The reason I ask, see, is because (if I recall correctly) Robert Fisk, just before his world-famous whuppin', greeted a crowd of Afghan refugees in Pakistan with this phrase.

If the Afghans took this greeting business very seriously, then that might have been what set them off, not their generalized hatred of Westerners. (That, and the giant KICK ME written on Fisk's psyche.)

.com's Saudi acquaintances were probably pretty cosmopolitan and tolerant, compared to those refugees.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2005-02-02 9:42:29 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2005-02-02 9:42:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 nobody in the South would add the apostrophe

Well that's the kind of commentary that make me an authority in comparison to you, even about your own nation.

or assumed he could lecture Americans on the subtleties of our politics, culture, language, etc. never having been here or knowing dick about what he's saying

As opposed to being constantly lectured by y'all about Europe on our horrible and dhimmi-like we all are? Or as opposed to having the Greece stereotyping/homosexuality insinuations been the first kind of "argument" Rantburgers used against my posts in this forum?

On more important matters, this will require some heavy-duty doublethink for the so very nice people of this forum to rationalize away: 'New Europe' Slovenian Parliament ratifies European Constitution, 79 to 4

Cheers, y'all.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-02-02 9:54:28 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-02-02 9:54:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Two drinks and one double big drink.

Posted by badanov 2005-02-02 10:03:01 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif] 2005-02-02 10:03:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Johnny5
I'm going to disagree with you. In a sense Islam had its Martin Luther. It led to Wahabaism - a 'pure form of Islam devoid of mystic, philosophical, or cultural synthesis.

What Islam already has are an Andrei Dmitrievich Sakharov and an Alexander Solzenitzen (they have Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina). What needs to be done is get these two people on FoxNews and get them on repeatedly.

Posted by mhw 2005-02-02 10:05:42 PM|| 2005-02-02 10:05:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Aris, and that they ratified that means what?

In a decade, it would mean exactly a rat's ass.

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-02-02 10:05:44 PM|| 2005-02-02 10:05:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 cripes, those were bitter, badanov!

Posted by Frank G 2005-02-02 10:07:35 PM|| 2005-02-02 10:07:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Aris, and that they ratified that means what?

One of three possibilities:
1) They are servile dhimmies, having 79 to 4 chosen to sell away "the key to their national sovereignty"
2) They are blind, not seeing that they sold away the key to their national sovereignty.
3) That ratification of the European Constitution doesn't indicate either servility nor blindness.

I'm with (3), which one are you?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-02-02 10:20:48 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-02-02 10:20:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Lol! You really are the biggest Attention Whore on the 'Net. It's true, by the way, that Southerners don't consider "yall" a contraction of "you all" - that's an affectation of the AP Style Book and, thus, used in the MSM and copied by the lame - your primary source of info about the vast universe. You don't know - simply because you're too conceited to listen to those who do.

You get 99.99% of your info second or third or fourth hand. It's often tripe. That you are so certain, and perhaps proud of this tainted and flawed version of reality, it's little wonder you're a walking (I assume) talking fuckwit of half-truths and pure unsubstantiated opinion. You're truly a sad and pathetic little boy. So full of yourself, so full of shit, but that's redundant - it's just you being yourself. Perhaps you'll get a lesson, the hard one, soon. One can hope, for your sake. But for Rantburg, it's irrelevant - it's your personality disorder and should be dealt with offstage. You are typical of a guest on Jerry Springer.

Pure pontification. Aris, your true name is impotent conceit - for that is the one indisputable trait that identifies you.

No one gives a fuck what you think. No one gives a fuck why. No one gives a fuck if you live, die, or admit you're a dull gay blade who sucks cock better than Divine Brown and Linda Lovelace put together. No one gives a fuck about Greece, about their opinions, their government, their attitudes, their lives, their deaths. No one cares if it falls into the ocean or is swept clean by the next tsunami. No one would notice. No one cares if the EU builds a military or continues to suck tit. No one cares if they accept or reject a constitution. No one cares what you think about international institutions. No one cares about what you think makes America tick. No one cares what you think Red State and Blue State mean. No one cares what you think of American idiomatic or colloquial speech. No one cares what you're *sure* or *fucking clueless* about. No one cares. Because you are no one. Fuck, less than no one.

It boggles how you pontificate, posture, preen and pose, yet you're impotent and imminently irrelevant. The only unique thing about you is your massive tumorous conceit - perhaps an achievement in your environs, but of no consequence outside your infantile mind. You're merely the arrogant little L'enfante terrible of conceit, endlessly blathering from the hinterhindquarters of the swampy lowlands of nowhere muttering to yourself - signifying nothing. Your opinion is of no consequence, nor is it worth the bandwidth or the time. Impotent. And that's why you post, your terminal case of LSM (Little Man Syndrome) simply overwhelms what logical faculties you might have, swamping your entire being in rage and hopeless helplessness.

Sucks to be you, I'd wager, LEECHBOY.

All:
Impotent conceit. That sums up all aspects of Aris. He can affect nothing. He has no power. He isn't capable of anything except yapping - like the little dogs who get so excited they pee themselves. Ignore it and it will implode. Irksome, but terminally Irrelevant. Impotent. Insignificant. Inconsequential. Yap! Yap! Infantile. Inane. Yap! Insane. Idiot.

Ignore it, folks. Forever. As of now, I will.

Posted by .com 2005-02-02 10:22:45 PM|| 2005-02-02 10:22:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Yup, you don't care, that's exactly why you spend so much time talking about it.

Cheers, love. As for the 'y'all', when I know real-live Southerners that use it with an apostrophe it makes no difference as to whether it's a contraction of "you all" or not.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-02-02 10:34:25 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-02-02 10:34:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 *wow*

Posted by Frank G 2005-02-02 10:34:39 PM|| 2005-02-02 10:34:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 I think Aris just got Rachel Corriedâ¢

Posted by Frank G 2005-02-02 10:35:31 PM|| 2005-02-02 10:35:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 "I'm with (3), which one are you?"

Hmmm... I'm with:

4) Aris needs to ask his psychiatrist to help him understand what drives him to spend countless hours hanging around with a bunch of people who despise him.

Goodnight, all.

Posted by Dave D. 2005-02-02 10:36:11 PM|| 2005-02-02 10:36:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 4) Aris needs to ask his psychiatrist to help him understand what drives him to spend countless hours hanging around with a bunch of people who despise him

I think it's the same kind of drive that leads the USA to only invade hostile nations that oppose it, not friendly ones that support it.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-02-02 10:43:24 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-02-02 10:43:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Applause .com

Posted by 11A5S 2005-02-02 11:01:23 PM|| 2005-02-02 11:01:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 What the hell is that buzzing sound? Is Aris still buzzing the light bulb?

.com, I am in Awe! Haven't seen a better flame since about 20 years ago.

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-02-02 11:09:06 PM|| 2005-02-02 11:09:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 CF, content-wise it was mainly repetitious of flames he's made before, though he certainly seems to have reached new level of mania about it all.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-02-02 11:13:28 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-02-02 11:13:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#43
.com occasionally tries to chase me off Rantburg too. I can get an ordinary snit-fit out of him with no effort at all, but I've never been able to provoke a tantrum as furious in #34.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2005-02-02 11:24:07 PM|| 2005-02-02 11:24:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 If I can make a wild guess at a pattern for his behaviour (admittedly from a very small number of sampled "snit-fits" and their circumstances, as I can remember them) he tends to go on such rants when he seriously feels cornered, losing ground and generally impotent.

This specific tantrum was probably provoked by the fact I've intentionally used the word "y'all" after he spent a post mocking me for doing it. That would annoy him -- if he can't bully via mockery in even as tiny a matter as this, how could he ever succeed in bullying on issues that matter? He might need to use (*gasp*) persuasion, instead of mockery instead -- and if he's a weakling in mockery, he's utterly impotent in the use of actual arguments.

I also go into the occasional rant but generally about matters that I believe are crucial to the survival of our civilization and the idiocy of people who don't get their importance -- I don't go into rants about matters I claim to be utterly trivial and insignificant.

How's that for psychoanalyzing .com? On a strictly quid-pro-quo basis, of course. :-)

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2005-02-02 11:59:17 PM|| [http://www.livejournal.com/~katsaris/] 2005-02-02 11:59:17 PM|| Front Page Top

18:01 Crerert Ebbeting3481
23:59 Zenster
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23:56 11A5S
23:50 .com
23:46 .com
23:40 Zenster
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23:26 11A5S
23:24 Mike Sylwester
23:22 phil_b
23:22 Trotsky
23:21 .com
23:17 .com
23:17 Zenster
23:17 Mike Sylwester
23:16 someone
23:16 .com
23:14 CrazyFool
23:13 Aris Katsaris
23:12 11A5S
23:10 phil_b
23:09 CrazyFool
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