Article

2023-01-26 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by badanov 2023-01-26 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11132 views ] Top

#1 Biden will send 31 Abrams tanks worth $400M to Ukraine: White House adds to Zelensky's arsenal after diplomatic row with Germany

Posted by Skidmark 2023-01-26 00:33|| 2023-01-26 00:33|| Front Page Top

#2 So basically
WE THE US Taxpayers are funding the Ukraine war and selling them the US Military Industrial Complex weaponry,

Which they are buying using US TAXPAYER $$$$$.

Doesn't this sound like a $$$$ laundering scheme?
Where, certain people are becoming $$$$ rich filling their pockets by shuffling $$$$ around, as the USA goes deeper & deeper in debt ?

Posted by NN2N1 2023-01-26 06:41|| 2023-01-26 06:41|| Front Page Top

#3 M1 Abrams Tanks In U.S. Inventory Have Armor Too Secret To Send To Ukraine

Posted by M. Murcek 2023-01-26 07:40|| 2023-01-26 07:40|| Front Page Top

#4 Murcek - not secret just denatured uranium.

Posted by 3dc 2023-01-26 07:48|| 2023-01-26 07:48|| Front Page Top

#5 Sort of like the DU shells it can fire.
https://youtu.be/MTh8lxRk8FY

Posted by 3dc 2023-01-26 07:51|| 2023-01-26 07:51|| Front Page Top

#6 Shucks, I thought she/it was going:

Posted by DooDahMan 2023-01-26 07:59|| 2023-01-26 07:59|| Front Page Top

#7 The Abrams will come out of mothball storage and will most likely be the M1A1 or the M1A2. The US still lists part of it as Top Secret, so parts will have to be stripped off and sanitized for export. On top of that headache, they will have to build out infrastructure for the repair of the tanks in Ukraine as the turbine engine is so different than the diesel the Leopard and Russian tanks use. On top of that Ukrainian mechanics will need to be trained to service the tank as well as new tankers will be trained on a tank that is so much different than their old Soviet ones it will be like a fighter pilot learning to fly a UFO.

So at the earliest we could see Abrams at the front in fall. Leopards will be there sooner as the support and supply network is already in place in Poland and is easy to build slightly forward to Ukraine.

Posted by DarthVader 2023-01-26 08:06|| 2023-01-26 08:06|| Front Page Top

#8 #4 It was the article's assertion, not mine.

Where are all the environmentalists and scientists who were screeching about the use of DU shells in Iraq?

Posted by M. Murcek 2023-01-26 08:06|| 2023-01-26 08:06|| Front Page Top

#9 Russian troops are already pretty demoralized.

When spring comes and they see a big tank coming through the mud, it will be difficult to keep them from a panic retreat.

Posted by lord garth 2023-01-26 08:11|| 2023-01-26 08:11|| Front Page Top

#10 No idea what the radiologic effects of sitting in a can with DU walls would be, but admit I wouldn't be comfortable with it,

Posted by Mercutio 2023-01-26 08:59|| 2023-01-26 08:59|| Front Page Top

#11 It's toxic, but not radiologically dangerous.

Posted by M. Murcek 2023-01-26 09:06|| 2023-01-26 09:06|| Front Page Top

#12 Cripes; seriously?

*technical question - would it not be more expedient to do M-60s? Or have they all been dismantled?

Posted by swksvolFF 2023-01-26 10:38|| 2023-01-26 10:38|| Front Page Top

#13 more expedient to do M-60s

M-60s have the 105mm main gun and can't upgrade as the turret is too small. In addition to that its armor isn't up to going toe to toe with more modern tanks. Really isn't worth the effort. Especially with nearly 3,000 Abrams in storage for the US. Cheaper for us to do some PMS, strip off the stuff we don't want falling into the wrong hands and sending them overseas rather than scrapping them.

Posted by DarthVader 2023-01-26 12:21|| 2023-01-26 12:21|| Front Page Top

#14 Just seem to remember them holding their own in Desert Storm. Latest Iraqi armor at the time IIRC was T-72?

That was a while back though; upgrades since then probably greater than upgrades to the 60.

For the record, I think this is all a bad idea, but I agree just getting Abrams within shooting distance is going to be a nightmare. Was thinking of something closer to the locals' experience and maybe easier to maintain than the specialized parts of an Abrams.

Obviously Ukraine is not desert, and does nobody good if a 60 is easily whallopped by current weapons and platforms. Not happy about the Bradleys either as it seems IFVs on both sides are really taking it and has similar logistic/training bottlenecks.

Problem is decisions being made by people who think farming is making a little hole, putting a seed in it, and adding some water from time to time.

Posted by swksvolFF 2023-01-26 12:45|| 2023-01-26 12:45|| Front Page Top

#15 I nominate DooDahMan for Snark of the Day.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2023-01-26 13:17|| 2023-01-26 13:17|| Front Page Top

#16 Not so sure DU armor is not exportable. The M1A2 SEPv3 the Poles ordered look like they have DU armor an well as getting the latest version of the M829 DU ammunition.

Either way, I hope the transferred M1s will have ERA added on (TUSK kit). This war isn't Iraq firing steel penetrators and crappy Saggers

Posted by Thruter Gloluger6393 2023-01-26 16:13|| 2023-01-26 16:13|| Front Page Top

#17 Not so sure DU armor is not exportable.

Dunno if it is DU, but the Chobham armor is still very top secret. The export version of the M1 is rolled composite steel. The Saudi version isn't as good as the American one armor wise. Ukraine will get the real fucking deal from our mothballed stock.

The T-72 Iraqi version was definitely a downgrade like the Abrams to Saudi. The full M1 ran ramped over that version. Kinda like the T-90 in Syria got rolled by 2nd generation western anti-tank weapons.

Posted by DarthVader 2023-01-26 22:42|| 2023-01-26 22:42|| Front Page Top

23:53 Rex Mundi
22:59 JohnQC
22:48 Super Hose
22:42 DarthVader
22:23 KBK
21:53 Beavis
21:37 trailing wife
21:35 Flomogum Slineting9256
21:33 trailing wife
19:33 Rambler in Virginia
19:19 SteveS
19:10 M. Murcek
19:02 Frank G
19:01 Frank G
18:52 Frank G
18:42 swksvolFF
18:38 Frank G
18:35 swksvolFF
18:29 Beacis
18:16 Seeking Cure For Ignorance
18:06 Anomalous Sources
17:59 JohnQC
17:49 JohnQC
17:30 Flomogum Slineting9256