Article

2004-01-15 Europe

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Posted by JerseyMike 2004-01-15 10:02:20 AM|| || Front Page|| [11129 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 sorry these eu types are becoming tiresome but when you septics start playing ball maybe we wil buy your second rate goods

Posted by luke 2004-1-15 10:11:05 AM|| 2004-1-15 10:11:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Time to hire some good smugglers. A nice, friendly black market is what the EUnuchs need.

Posted by mojo 2004-1-15 10:38:57 AM|| 2004-1-15 10:38:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 sorry these eu types are becoming tiresome but when you septics start playing ball maybe we wil buy your second rate goods

I would think that with the dollar so low against the euro, our second rate goods are a pretty good buy right now.
Don't worry though, when push comes to shove you know we'll carry you.

Posted by JerseyMike 2004-1-15 10:47:19 AM|| 2004-1-15 10:47:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 what we eunuchs need is for the septics to bring in lots of protectioism and put up a high wall around their god forsaken country bring all the fat bastard tourists back and rot in your own filth

Posted by luke 2004-1-15 10:48:53 AM|| 2004-1-15 10:48:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 what we eunuchs need is for the septics to bring in lots of protectioism and put up a high wall around their god forsaken country bring all the fat bastard tourists back and rot in your own filth

Posted by luke 2004-1-15 11:02:02 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:02:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Luke, We'd love to get out of those silly EU countries and isolate ourselves from their history of depravity but unfortunately the last 2 times we tried that, they were left alone to fester in their own repugnance until their true genocidal, racist nature was reveleaed drawing us into 2 world wars. Now we know that the best way to keep the world safe is to keep a VERY close eye on those silly Euros with their wacky penchant for torture, intolerance, genocide and hate so it doesn't draw the rest of the world into their inclination towards barbary and self-destruction.

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-1-15 11:04:21 AM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 11:04:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 oh luke..luke...you make me ...
I left you a message at following link.

Since I am not exporting steel or wheat, I can only say, great! Get those deficits down, ring in those US tourist dollars. Only negative is that we might be stuck buying our own cars. Thankfully, I bought mine recently. My condolences to those whose timing will not be as lucky.

Posted by B 2004-1-15 11:09:23 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:09:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 B, you can always by japanese ;) Actually my next car will most likely be a lexus since I want to get a hybrid when they're available...

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-1-15 11:11:32 AM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 11:11:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 oops. To luke, (if you are smart enought to figure it out, which is questionable)
From B

http://www.rantburg.com/#24409
(#8)

Posted by B 2004-1-15 11:13:24 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:13:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 DPA..ahhh..you are so right. I stand (blush) corrected.

Posted by B 2004-1-15 11:14:41 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:14:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Do the EUniks really want to destroy their own economy? Banning trade with Uncle Sam is the way to do it.

Posted by Korora 2004-1-15 11:15:48 AM|| [http://basementburrow.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 11:15:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 DPA..I love your photos of Sadaam's capture!

Posted by B 2004-1-15 11:19:55 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:19:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 B, Thanks but I just posted a link to em... they're from the A-1-8 chapter of the 4th ID

http://a-1-8.org

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-1-15 11:25:52 AM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 11:25:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 Ask the French about "sanctions". The people of the United States voted with their pocketbooks not to "support" France. The French lost billions of euros. Imagine what would happen if we decided to do that to the entire Euseless mess over there. Your economy is already in the toilet. Your social welfare state has totally crippled any innovation, any entrepreneurial spirit that might exist, except in the Eastern European nations, which the rest of Europe treats worse than a poor relative. Your industry is heavily subsidized, because that's the only way you can actually afford to sell anything manufactured in Europe, where labor costs are some of the highest in the world.

Just a warning to the idiotarians in the European Union: economic war is just as much a war as a shooting war. We in the United States will respond just as rapidly to an economic war as we did to 9/11. Since Kyoto was such a failure on the part of Europe to criple American industry, you're trying something else. Keep it up, and we will retaliate in a way that will totally destroy your economies for the next 100 years.

In the meantime, the United States needs to pull out of all these damned "entangling alliances" known as "International agreements". They've all been hijacked by those that hate this nation and its successes, and will do anything to destroy us. Note to idiotarians: destroying the United States will NOT fix your internal problems.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-1-15 11:49:55 AM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-1-15 11:49:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 South Korea has no problem w/us dumping our soldiers there. Move em out.

Posted by Anonymous2U 2004-1-15 11:55:35 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:55:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Septic? WTF is a Septic? You have to be a little less subtle with your insults. I'm pretty slow.

Posted by whitecollar redneck 2004-1-15 12:02:49 PM|| 2004-1-15 12:02:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Septic? WTF is a Septic?
I'm sure Doc White could clarify that for you more precisely, but it means "infected". In the case of Western Europe, it's certainly appropos - the entire gang over there seem to be infected with a gross socialist disorder. If left untreated, it's probably deadly. Nations can die just as easily as individuals, and usually for many of the same reasons.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-1-15 12:47:20 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-1-15 12:47:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Skeptical? I believe my fellow european means "american"... perhaps septic as in "septical", you know, a poo-related insult?

Posted by Anonymous 2004-1-15 12:49:54 PM|| 2004-1-15 12:49:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 infected with a gross socialist disorder. If left untreated, it's probably deadly. Nations can die just as easily as individuals, and usually for many of the same reasons.

Has an entire continent ever won a Darwin Award?

Posted by 4thInfVet 2004-1-15 1:07:07 PM|| 2004-1-15 1:07:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 ho jeseus were not gonna have this crap starting now are we.The whole idea of a trade war with america is lunacy. I'm over here in southern England and i know for a fact that this will fuck up everyone's wallet.I mean the guys in Brussels that run the EU are thick enough alreadybut this just takes the piss.To be honest the whole EU is a fuckin joke and i just wish we'd pull out of all thier crap and let ourselves manage and run our own affairs.I get sick and tired of self centered German,French,and other Euro countries deciding what we do and don't do,its a fuckin joke because every country cleary has its own adgenda and wants to look after number one.Europe will never be able be a world class allience because everyone's so self centred.I hate the EU! Sorry just had to rant about this one.I say if Europe wants to start a trade war then let it but just don't let those clowns fuck up themeselves as well as England, actually i hope they do fuck themselves up it would serve them right,just leave England out of this shit. :(

Posted by Jon Shep U.K 2004-1-15 1:12:51 PM|| 2004-1-15 1:12:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Whitecollar redneck: (Some) Australians refer to Americans as "seppos", which comes from rhyming slang: septic tank = yank. (One Australian woman told me she genuinely believed this was not an insult, since Americans introduced the hygienic notion of the septic tank to Australia. Sure.)

Apparently this terminology has spread to Europe. I was just having a fit of nostalgia as I read this "discussion"; luke reminds me of the many well-reasoned arguments from thoughtful, informed Europeans, which I read on Usenet.

Hey, luke, how are the boys on alt.nuke.the.usa?

Posted by Angie Schultz 2004-1-15 1:14:09 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 1:14:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Old Patriot >> Pzzsst! This Bud's for you. (I'd think you'd actually live here like me)

Jon Shep >> Pzzsst! This Bud's for you.

Both of you hit the nail on the head. Aside fom BMW's, Mercedes, and a few (very few) other things, German products are straight to the crapper products at outrageous prices. Yes, their overbloated social welfare programs are killing them. That plus these proposed sanctions and a "proposed Defense Force" which will be sorely in need of a technological upgrade will cost Billions of Euros they dont want to commit. (Maybe they'll ask for a loan from us)

The REAL reason for the sanctions is the fact that the dollar is so low and the Euro firms are taking it in the pants. (WAAAAH!!!)I'm sure their overpriced crap isnt selling in the states too well either about now, but ours is.

Posted by Paul 2004-1-15 1:42:11 PM|| 2004-1-15 1:42:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Definition of septic:

An American. Ryhming slang "yank" = "septic tank"
Used a lot in the London financial markets.

The septics sit in the big glass offices and do nothing.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-1-15 1:51:58 PM|| 2004-1-15 1:51:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Thanks for the definitions everyone, but now I'm feeling terribly hurt. Anyways, Ya'll are always welcome to come back and brighten me up some more luke. (backing away slowly...."The boy just ain't right")

Posted by whitecollar redneck 2004-1-15 2:21:50 PM|| 2004-1-15 2:21:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 What this is aboutis simple:

THe low dollar has not yet caused a flow away from US funds.

So the Euro-whiners are crying - they are facing cheaper US imports, and cannot attract investmnent money to their socialist over-regulated economies. SO they are tryig to artifically jack up the cost of US imports via tariffs, while they continue to export below-cost goods they themselves subsidize.

The US position is pretty clear: stop subsidizing and dumping here and we will stop putting the tarrifs on.

The Euros need us to increase the interest rate so the dollar will strengthen. The scary thing for the Eurotrash is once we do, investment money will flow even more strongly to the US, and still leave them screwed.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-1-15 2:48:17 PM|| 2004-1-15 2:48:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 First of all, i deeply object to the word "eurotrash" (or "eunuchs" for that matter). Stop whining about European "anti-Americanism" as long as you use blanket insults like these against Europeans. I can't recall that anyone in Europe calls Americans "americantrash"). Nor should intelligent Rantburg members do that.

I don't know who is right in this trade dispute. But the WTO is a body whose rulings are binding for those who subscribe to it. Both the U.S. and European nations wanted it that way.

So if the WTO rules against the U.S. trade sanctions are fair game to enforce the rulings. Note that the idea is not to slap on the tariffs, but to make the losing party in the dispute comply with the rulings. Had the EU lost a dispute the U.S. would do exactly the same.

The U.S. is a WTO member because it wants to be and sees benefit in that. So if you think the WTO doesn't work for you, leave it.

As for the "overpriced German crap": Germany exports more goods than the much bigger U.S. Not per capita but in total! Can't be just BMW and Mercedes, right? Btw some "hundreds of millions of dollars" won't really do anything about a low dollar. Nobody wants a trade war. Nobody would benefit from it.

But either we accept WTO rulings or we don't. In the latter case lets abolish the WTO. But THEN we are likely to have trade wars.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-1-15 3:45:59 PM|| 2004-1-15 3:45:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 TGA, I don't think you can make the blanket statement that no Europeans call us Ameritrash.... and we know they call us septics so... :)

Anyway, while Germany does export a lot it's not quite the amount of US exports... We export about 1 trillion Germany exports about 600 billion. Still for the relative size of our economies they are doing much better at exporting than we are...

Regarding the WTO and all other international organizations... it's pretty apparent that the governments of most of the world don't like us very much so from our perspective it appears we don't get a fair shake in these organizations and therefore many americans are for the concept of "leave it"...

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-1-15 4:33:47 PM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 4:33:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 DPA where do you get your figures from? The WTO report for 2002 shows the U.S. still ahead with 693 bn and Germany second with 613 bn. of merchandise trade (2003 figures not yet available). Financial Times Germany reports that in August 2003 for the first time in 11 years Germany exported more merchandise than the U.S. (62 bn = 7% more than U.S.).
Or did you add export of commercial services? The WTO report for 2002 shows 272bn for the U.S. and 99 bn for Germany (which would be the "fair balance given the population in the 2 countries). Adding both would put the U.S. ahead but with a narrower margin than you posted.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-1-15 4:52:30 PM|| 2004-1-15 4:52:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 TGA, I was doing total exports... you did say goods only, which I missed.

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-1-15 5:08:06 PM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 5:08:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 The totals include both goods and services. Services would include software, movies, music, franchise fees, etc. Here are some numbers on export share.

Most EU countries are more vulnerable to a trade war than the US, because the US is typically their largest single market. Exports to Europe comprise about 5% of the American economy. EU exports to the US may be as much as 20% of the EU economy. My feeling is that if they have problems maintaining a trade embargo against Iran and Iraq, they're going to experience a depression if they implement anything against the US.

Comparisons between German and US trade numbers are specious, simply because most of Germany's exports are to other EU countries. If we counted interstate commerce as exports, we'd have a much bigger export economy on a per capita basis. Because international trade is a bigger share of Germany's economy, a trade war hurts them more in an important way - it lowers the amount of hard currency they have to buy essential goods such as food*, whereas the US is completely self-sufficient in that area.

* Getting enough food was a real problem for Germany in both World Wars, whether it was because of allied blockades or because of a shortage of hard currency to buy it from smugglers operating through neutral countries.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-1-15 5:21:49 PM|| 2004-1-15 5:21:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 "If we counted interstate commerce as exports.."

HUH? What kind of calculation is this??? And what you mean by "lowers the amount of hard currency to buy food"? Just how "weak" a currency is the Euro? And most food is bought intra-EU. Oh and we really have plenty of that, thank you.

That said, a trade war serves nobody

Posted by True German Ally 2004-1-15 5:42:49 PM|| 2004-1-15 5:42:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Agreed TGA, a trade war is good for nobody. But the point that is trying to be made is that the largest market for US goods is the US.... by a significant factor. We are large trading nation, but it's percentage of the GDP is rather small.

Posted by Shipman 2004-1-15 6:27:23 PM|| 2004-1-15 6:27:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 "If we counted interstate commerce as exports.." HUH? What kind of calculation is this???

If we treat the EU as one entity, German export numbers would take a huge dive. Much of Germany's "exports" are really interstate commerce within the realm of the EU.

Just how "weak" a currency is the Euro?

The Euro will get a lot weaker vis-a-vis the dollar if its exports to the US go to zero. That's the thing about running a substantial trade surplus.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-1-15 6:35:38 PM|| 2004-1-15 6:35:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 So, Luke is a Euro-bigot.
I escaped the benighted confines of Carlisle, England in 1969 and became an American citizen in 1974. I did this through the admittedly imprudent stratagem of enlisting in the US Army but I survived, went to college, raised a family and got rich in a land of sunshine, good roads, and accessible dentists.

In my time, Carlisle was a world-center for the production of fog, rust, and decaying brickwork. Things have improved since then, except for the fog, but I don't miss the place.
I would miss my family except that most of them, including my now 102-year-old grandmother, followed me here.
An exception is my crazy Quaker/Trotskyite aunt, who continues to participate in pro-jihad "peace" demonstrations, just as she supported the peace-loving Vietcong a generation ago and God-knows-what before that.

If I have a toothache, I can see a good dentist tomorrow. It is a bit pricey but, thanks to the GI Bill, I can afford it. Losing the incorrigible British habit of stuffing my face with Mars bars also helps.
While we're at it, how fat would Brit-lefties be if a Mars bar cost 30p, as it does here?

I can afford to eat as much or as little as I like. Here in the States, poor people are often fat and rich ones typically are not. The poor very often drive bigger and more powerful cars than the rich, as well. That should tell you something. How would the politics of the Brit working class change if they could all afford 300 hp crew-cab pickups and the petrol to run them? That is a living reality here. I am a full professor, but the chap who reads my electric meter lives on the same block and sends his children to a private school. Homes like ours would easily set you back a million quid apiece in the UK, a small fraction of that here.

Michael Moore is the infallible authority on all things American to the Euro-left and its various satellite cults in places like Australia and Canada. It is an odd irony that he so well matches the Euro-bigot stereotype of fat, slovenly, ill-bred Americans and so few others do.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-1-15 8:18:45 PM|| [http://www.nuclearspace.com] 2004-1-15 8:18:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Zhang Fei, you know that you can't argue like that. Or if you do you can't compare Germany with the U.S., only with California or Texas etc.

And of course we know that exports to the US wont go to zero, even a full trade war would not do that. And even if it did it would only (it's all theory now) eliminate the 28bn trade surplus with the U.S. (imports would be zero, too). But this is all nonsense. Mutual investments have brought both countries so close together that nobody would even dream about a serious conflict. Many "German" cars you drive are actually "made in USA". Btw despite the strong Euro German exports to China (weak Yuan) are up sharply.

My original posting was actually a reaction to Paul's ludicrous statement that "German products are straight to the crapper products at outrageous prices".

Germany will never be able to sell by price, only by quality. And it seems to manage quite well.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-1-15 8:26:30 PM|| 2004-1-15 8:26:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Many "German" cars you drive are actually "made in USA"

...and Mexico, in the case of VW.

Posted by Rafael 2004-1-15 8:51:59 PM|| 2004-1-15 8:51:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 AC, Well said. Much better but along the same line that I thought of today. I wonder if Luke's roomates feel the same way he does.

Posted by Lucky 2004-1-15 11:51:07 PM|| 2004-1-15 11:51:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 sorry these eu types are becoming tiresome but when you septics start playing ball maybe we wil buy your second rate goods

Posted by luke 2004-1-15 10:11:05 AM|| 2004-1-15 10:11:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#39 Time to hire some good smugglers. A nice, friendly black market is what the EUnuchs need.

Posted by mojo 2004-1-15 10:38:57 AM|| 2004-1-15 10:38:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#40 sorry these eu types are becoming tiresome but when you septics start playing ball maybe we wil buy your second rate goods

I would think that with the dollar so low against the euro, our second rate goods are a pretty good buy right now.
Don't worry though, when push comes to shove you know we'll carry you.

Posted by JerseyMike 2004-1-15 10:47:19 AM|| 2004-1-15 10:47:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#41 what we eunuchs need is for the septics to bring in lots of protectioism and put up a high wall around their god forsaken country bring all the fat bastard tourists back and rot in your own filth

Posted by luke 2004-1-15 10:48:53 AM|| 2004-1-15 10:48:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#42 what we eunuchs need is for the septics to bring in lots of protectioism and put up a high wall around their god forsaken country bring all the fat bastard tourists back and rot in your own filth

Posted by luke 2004-1-15 11:02:02 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:02:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#43 Luke, We'd love to get out of those silly EU countries and isolate ourselves from their history of depravity but unfortunately the last 2 times we tried that, they were left alone to fester in their own repugnance until their true genocidal, racist nature was reveleaed drawing us into 2 world wars. Now we know that the best way to keep the world safe is to keep a VERY close eye on those silly Euros with their wacky penchant for torture, intolerance, genocide and hate so it doesn't draw the rest of the world into their inclination towards barbary and self-destruction.

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-1-15 11:04:21 AM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 11:04:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#44 oh luke..luke...you make me ...
I left you a message at following link.

Since I am not exporting steel or wheat, I can only say, great! Get those deficits down, ring in those US tourist dollars. Only negative is that we might be stuck buying our own cars. Thankfully, I bought mine recently. My condolences to those whose timing will not be as lucky.

Posted by B 2004-1-15 11:09:23 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:09:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#45 B, you can always by japanese ;) Actually my next car will most likely be a lexus since I want to get a hybrid when they're available...

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-1-15 11:11:32 AM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 11:11:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#46 oops. To luke, (if you are smart enought to figure it out, which is questionable)
From B

http://www.rantburg.com/#24409
(#8)

Posted by B 2004-1-15 11:13:24 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:13:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#47 DPA..ahhh..you are so right. I stand (blush) corrected.

Posted by B 2004-1-15 11:14:41 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:14:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#48 Do the EUniks really want to destroy their own economy? Banning trade with Uncle Sam is the way to do it.

Posted by Korora 2004-1-15 11:15:48 AM|| [http://basementburrow.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 11:15:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#49 DPA..I love your photos of Sadaam's capture!

Posted by B 2004-1-15 11:19:55 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:19:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#50 B, Thanks but I just posted a link to em... they're from the A-1-8 chapter of the 4th ID

http://a-1-8.org

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-1-15 11:25:52 AM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 11:25:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#51 Ask the French about "sanctions". The people of the United States voted with their pocketbooks not to "support" France. The French lost billions of euros. Imagine what would happen if we decided to do that to the entire Euseless mess over there. Your economy is already in the toilet. Your social welfare state has totally crippled any innovation, any entrepreneurial spirit that might exist, except in the Eastern European nations, which the rest of Europe treats worse than a poor relative. Your industry is heavily subsidized, because that's the only way you can actually afford to sell anything manufactured in Europe, where labor costs are some of the highest in the world.

Just a warning to the idiotarians in the European Union: economic war is just as much a war as a shooting war. We in the United States will respond just as rapidly to an economic war as we did to 9/11. Since Kyoto was such a failure on the part of Europe to criple American industry, you're trying something else. Keep it up, and we will retaliate in a way that will totally destroy your economies for the next 100 years.

In the meantime, the United States needs to pull out of all these damned "entangling alliances" known as "International agreements". They've all been hijacked by those that hate this nation and its successes, and will do anything to destroy us. Note to idiotarians: destroying the United States will NOT fix your internal problems.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-1-15 11:49:55 AM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-1-15 11:49:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#52 South Korea has no problem w/us dumping our soldiers there. Move em out.

Posted by Anonymous2U 2004-1-15 11:55:35 AM|| 2004-1-15 11:55:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#53 Septic? WTF is a Septic? You have to be a little less subtle with your insults. I'm pretty slow.

Posted by whitecollar redneck 2004-1-15 12:02:49 PM|| 2004-1-15 12:02:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#54 Septic? WTF is a Septic?
I'm sure Doc White could clarify that for you more precisely, but it means "infected". In the case of Western Europe, it's certainly appropos - the entire gang over there seem to be infected with a gross socialist disorder. If left untreated, it's probably deadly. Nations can die just as easily as individuals, and usually for many of the same reasons.

Posted by Old Patriot 2004-1-15 12:47:20 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm] 2004-1-15 12:47:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 Skeptical? I believe my fellow european means "american"... perhaps septic as in "septical", you know, a poo-related insult?

Posted by Anonymous 2004-1-15 12:49:54 PM|| 2004-1-15 12:49:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#56 infected with a gross socialist disorder. If left untreated, it's probably deadly. Nations can die just as easily as individuals, and usually for many of the same reasons.

Has an entire continent ever won a Darwin Award?

Posted by 4thInfVet 2004-1-15 1:07:07 PM|| 2004-1-15 1:07:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#57 ho jeseus were not gonna have this crap starting now are we.The whole idea of a trade war with america is lunacy. I'm over here in southern England and i know for a fact that this will fuck up everyone's wallet.I mean the guys in Brussels that run the EU are thick enough alreadybut this just takes the piss.To be honest the whole EU is a fuckin joke and i just wish we'd pull out of all thier crap and let ourselves manage and run our own affairs.I get sick and tired of self centered German,French,and other Euro countries deciding what we do and don't do,its a fuckin joke because every country cleary has its own adgenda and wants to look after number one.Europe will never be able be a world class allience because everyone's so self centred.I hate the EU! Sorry just had to rant about this one.I say if Europe wants to start a trade war then let it but just don't let those clowns fuck up themeselves as well as England, actually i hope they do fuck themselves up it would serve them right,just leave England out of this shit. :(

Posted by Jon Shep U.K 2004-1-15 1:12:51 PM|| 2004-1-15 1:12:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#58 Whitecollar redneck: (Some) Australians refer to Americans as "seppos", which comes from rhyming slang: septic tank = yank. (One Australian woman told me she genuinely believed this was not an insult, since Americans introduced the hygienic notion of the septic tank to Australia. Sure.)

Apparently this terminology has spread to Europe. I was just having a fit of nostalgia as I read this "discussion"; luke reminds me of the many well-reasoned arguments from thoughtful, informed Europeans, which I read on Usenet.

Hey, luke, how are the boys on alt.nuke.the.usa?

Posted by Angie Schultz 2004-1-15 1:14:09 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 1:14:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#59 Old Patriot >> Pzzsst! This Bud's for you. (I'd think you'd actually live here like me)

Jon Shep >> Pzzsst! This Bud's for you.

Both of you hit the nail on the head. Aside fom BMW's, Mercedes, and a few (very few) other things, German products are straight to the crapper products at outrageous prices. Yes, their overbloated social welfare programs are killing them. That plus these proposed sanctions and a "proposed Defense Force" which will be sorely in need of a technological upgrade will cost Billions of Euros they dont want to commit. (Maybe they'll ask for a loan from us)

The REAL reason for the sanctions is the fact that the dollar is so low and the Euro firms are taking it in the pants. (WAAAAH!!!)I'm sure their overpriced crap isnt selling in the states too well either about now, but ours is.

Posted by Paul 2004-1-15 1:42:11 PM|| 2004-1-15 1:42:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#60 Definition of septic:

An American. Ryhming slang "yank" = "septic tank"
Used a lot in the London financial markets.

The septics sit in the big glass offices and do nothing.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-1-15 1:51:58 PM|| 2004-1-15 1:51:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#61 Thanks for the definitions everyone, but now I'm feeling terribly hurt. Anyways, Ya'll are always welcome to come back and brighten me up some more luke. (backing away slowly...."The boy just ain't right")

Posted by whitecollar redneck 2004-1-15 2:21:50 PM|| 2004-1-15 2:21:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#62 What this is aboutis simple:

THe low dollar has not yet caused a flow away from US funds.

So the Euro-whiners are crying - they are facing cheaper US imports, and cannot attract investmnent money to their socialist over-regulated economies. SO they are tryig to artifically jack up the cost of US imports via tariffs, while they continue to export below-cost goods they themselves subsidize.

The US position is pretty clear: stop subsidizing and dumping here and we will stop putting the tarrifs on.

The Euros need us to increase the interest rate so the dollar will strengthen. The scary thing for the Eurotrash is once we do, investment money will flow even more strongly to the US, and still leave them screwed.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-1-15 2:48:17 PM|| 2004-1-15 2:48:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#63 First of all, i deeply object to the word "eurotrash" (or "eunuchs" for that matter). Stop whining about European "anti-Americanism" as long as you use blanket insults like these against Europeans. I can't recall that anyone in Europe calls Americans "americantrash"). Nor should intelligent Rantburg members do that.

I don't know who is right in this trade dispute. But the WTO is a body whose rulings are binding for those who subscribe to it. Both the U.S. and European nations wanted it that way.

So if the WTO rules against the U.S. trade sanctions are fair game to enforce the rulings. Note that the idea is not to slap on the tariffs, but to make the losing party in the dispute comply with the rulings. Had the EU lost a dispute the U.S. would do exactly the same.

The U.S. is a WTO member because it wants to be and sees benefit in that. So if you think the WTO doesn't work for you, leave it.

As for the "overpriced German crap": Germany exports more goods than the much bigger U.S. Not per capita but in total! Can't be just BMW and Mercedes, right? Btw some "hundreds of millions of dollars" won't really do anything about a low dollar. Nobody wants a trade war. Nobody would benefit from it.

But either we accept WTO rulings or we don't. In the latter case lets abolish the WTO. But THEN we are likely to have trade wars.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-1-15 3:45:59 PM|| 2004-1-15 3:45:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#64 TGA, I don't think you can make the blanket statement that no Europeans call us Ameritrash.... and we know they call us septics so... :)

Anyway, while Germany does export a lot it's not quite the amount of US exports... We export about 1 trillion Germany exports about 600 billion. Still for the relative size of our economies they are doing much better at exporting than we are...

Regarding the WTO and all other international organizations... it's pretty apparent that the governments of most of the world don't like us very much so from our perspective it appears we don't get a fair shake in these organizations and therefore many americans are for the concept of "leave it"...

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-1-15 4:33:47 PM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 4:33:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#65 DPA where do you get your figures from? The WTO report for 2002 shows the U.S. still ahead with 693 bn and Germany second with 613 bn. of merchandise trade (2003 figures not yet available). Financial Times Germany reports that in August 2003 for the first time in 11 years Germany exported more merchandise than the U.S. (62 bn = 7% more than U.S.).
Or did you add export of commercial services? The WTO report for 2002 shows 272bn for the U.S. and 99 bn for Germany (which would be the "fair balance given the population in the 2 countries). Adding both would put the U.S. ahead but with a narrower margin than you posted.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-1-15 4:52:30 PM|| 2004-1-15 4:52:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#66 TGA, I was doing total exports... you did say goods only, which I missed.

Posted by Damn_Proud_American 2004-1-15 5:08:06 PM|| [http://brighterfuture.blogspot.com] 2004-1-15 5:08:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#67 The totals include both goods and services. Services would include software, movies, music, franchise fees, etc. Here are some numbers on export share.

Most EU countries are more vulnerable to a trade war than the US, because the US is typically their largest single market. Exports to Europe comprise about 5% of the American economy. EU exports to the US may be as much as 20% of the EU economy. My feeling is that if they have problems maintaining a trade embargo against Iran and Iraq, they're going to experience a depression if they implement anything against the US.

Comparisons between German and US trade numbers are specious, simply because most of Germany's exports are to other EU countries. If we counted interstate commerce as exports, we'd have a much bigger export economy on a per capita basis. Because international trade is a bigger share of Germany's economy, a trade war hurts them more in an important way - it lowers the amount of hard currency they have to buy essential goods such as food*, whereas the US is completely self-sufficient in that area.

* Getting enough food was a real problem for Germany in both World Wars, whether it was because of allied blockades or because of a shortage of hard currency to buy it from smugglers operating through neutral countries.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-1-15 5:21:49 PM|| 2004-1-15 5:21:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#68 "If we counted interstate commerce as exports.."

HUH? What kind of calculation is this??? And what you mean by "lowers the amount of hard currency to buy food"? Just how "weak" a currency is the Euro? And most food is bought intra-EU. Oh and we really have plenty of that, thank you.

That said, a trade war serves nobody

Posted by True German Ally 2004-1-15 5:42:49 PM|| 2004-1-15 5:42:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#69 Agreed TGA, a trade war is good for nobody. But the point that is trying to be made is that the largest market for US goods is the US.... by a significant factor. We are large trading nation, but it's percentage of the GDP is rather small.

Posted by Shipman 2004-1-15 6:27:23 PM|| 2004-1-15 6:27:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#70 "If we counted interstate commerce as exports.." HUH? What kind of calculation is this???

If we treat the EU as one entity, German export numbers would take a huge dive. Much of Germany's "exports" are really interstate commerce within the realm of the EU.

Just how "weak" a currency is the Euro?

The Euro will get a lot weaker vis-a-vis the dollar if its exports to the US go to zero. That's the thing about running a substantial trade surplus.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-1-15 6:35:38 PM|| 2004-1-15 6:35:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#71 So, Luke is a Euro-bigot.
I escaped the benighted confines of Carlisle, England in 1969 and became an American citizen in 1974. I did this through the admittedly imprudent stratagem of enlisting in the US Army but I survived, went to college, raised a family and got rich in a land of sunshine, good roads, and accessible dentists.

In my time, Carlisle was a world-center for the production of fog, rust, and decaying brickwork. Things have improved since then, except for the fog, but I don't miss the place.
I would miss my family except that most of them, including my now 102-year-old grandmother, followed me here.
An exception is my crazy Quaker/Trotskyite aunt, who continues to participate in pro-jihad "peace" demonstrations, just as she supported the peace-loving Vietcong a generation ago and God-knows-what before that.

If I have a toothache, I can see a good dentist tomorrow. It is a bit pricey but, thanks to the GI Bill, I can afford it. Losing the incorrigible British habit of stuffing my face with Mars bars also helps.
While we're at it, how fat would Brit-lefties be if a Mars bar cost 30p, as it does here?

I can afford to eat as much or as little as I like. Here in the States, poor people are often fat and rich ones typically are not. The poor very often drive bigger and more powerful cars than the rich, as well. That should tell you something. How would the politics of the Brit working class change if they could all afford 300 hp crew-cab pickups and the petrol to run them? That is a living reality here. I am a full professor, but the chap who reads my electric meter lives on the same block and sends his children to a private school. Homes like ours would easily set you back a million quid apiece in the UK, a small fraction of that here.

Michael Moore is the infallible authority on all things American to the Euro-left and its various satellite cults in places like Australia and Canada. It is an odd irony that he so well matches the Euro-bigot stereotype of fat, slovenly, ill-bred Americans and so few others do.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-1-15 8:18:45 PM|| [http://www.nuclearspace.com] 2004-1-15 8:18:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#72 Zhang Fei, you know that you can't argue like that. Or if you do you can't compare Germany with the U.S., only with California or Texas etc.

And of course we know that exports to the US wont go to zero, even a full trade war would not do that. And even if it did it would only (it's all theory now) eliminate the 28bn trade surplus with the U.S. (imports would be zero, too). But this is all nonsense. Mutual investments have brought both countries so close together that nobody would even dream about a serious conflict. Many "German" cars you drive are actually "made in USA". Btw despite the strong Euro German exports to China (weak Yuan) are up sharply.

My original posting was actually a reaction to Paul's ludicrous statement that "German products are straight to the crapper products at outrageous prices".

Germany will never be able to sell by price, only by quality. And it seems to manage quite well.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-1-15 8:26:30 PM|| 2004-1-15 8:26:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#73 Many "German" cars you drive are actually "made in USA"

...and Mexico, in the case of VW.

Posted by Rafael 2004-1-15 8:51:59 PM|| 2004-1-15 8:51:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#74 AC, Well said. Much better but along the same line that I thought of today. I wonder if Luke's roomates feel the same way he does.

Posted by Lucky 2004-1-15 11:51:07 PM|| 2004-1-15 11:51:07 PM|| Front Page Top

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