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2007-01-08 Fifth Column
Ellison: Quran influenced America's founding fathers
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Posted by anonymous5089 2007-01-08 12:53|| || Front Page|| [11138 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 If so, why aren't we in the 7th century?
Posted by Xenophon 2007-01-08 12:55||   2007-01-08 12:55|| Front Page Top

#2 Yes. It influenced them to create a secular republic lest they fall into the muslim model. (Nitwit.)
Posted by Jonathan">Jonathan  2007-01-08 12:58||   2007-01-08 12:58|| Front Page Top

#3 So, I guess if it's okay with you, this gets him a pass on the slave owning thing, right, Keith?
Monticello: 2,345,678,907,234th Most Holy Place in Islam.
Posted by tu3031 2007-01-08 13:05||   2007-01-08 13:05|| Front Page Top

#4 Technically, Big Mo is sculpted right there on the US Supreme Court along with Moses and other notable lawgivers...
Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious  2007-01-08 13:06||   2007-01-08 13:06|| Front Page Top

#5 "It (the Koran) would have been something that contributed to his own thinking."

No doubt, it did. Note, however, the principles this country was founded on are the complete polar opposite of Islam:

Freedom of speech and religion.
Separation of Church and State.
No established state religion.
Equal rights for all. Even women! (yeah, I know about the slavery thing. It took us a couple hundred years to get it right. Slavery is still practiced under Islam after how many centuries?

Gosh, a person might come to the conclusion that Islam is incompatible with the Constitution!
Posted by SteveS 2007-01-08 13:11||   2007-01-08 13:11|| Front Page Top

#6 This, of course, is why Franklin used a hypothetical Muslim arguing against slave-taking jihad raids in the Mediterranean as a stand-in for pro-slavery arguments.

*sigh*

Seems to me that anymore, the only people who DIDN'T influence the Founding Fathers were white Europeans.
Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2007-01-08 13:20|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2007-01-08 13:20|| Front Page Top

#7 Also, women and minorities continued to make many valuable contributions throughout this period.
Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious  2007-01-08 13:41||   2007-01-08 13:41|| Front Page Top

#8 Which would explain why majority Muslim countries are known for the separation of powers, free and fair elections, equality of opportunity, etc. etc. etc.

/who is buying this stuff
Posted by Excalibur 2007-01-08 14:01||   2007-01-08 14:01|| Front Page Top

#9 old time read the Christian bible, and took from it only what he wanted. So he could have read the Koran and took from what he wanted, as well. Though AFAIK theres no particular evidence he took anything from it. But his intellectual curiosity led him to own it and read from it, and not to fear it, as he didnt really fear any ideas.
Posted by liberalhawk 2007-01-08 14:07||   2007-01-08 14:07|| Front Page Top

#10 that should have been "old Tom"
Posted by liberalhawk 2007-01-08 14:07||   2007-01-08 14:07|| Front Page Top

#11 Keith just missed another good opportunity to keep his f**king mouth shut.
Posted by GK 2007-01-08 14:07||   2007-01-08 14:07|| Front Page Top

#12 I'm not sure on this but I suspect Jefferson's possession of a Quran was after he retired from the Presidency and became a collector and all around philosopher.

Jefferson did, however, learn about Islam during the period when American ships were being taken by the Barbary Pirates. The pirates justified their actions via the Quran.
Posted by mhw 2007-01-08 14:26|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]  2007-01-08 14:26|| Front Page Top

#13 Another muslim myth is all this is. Ego triping fantasy.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2007-01-08 14:58|| www.sockpuppetofdoom.com]">[www.sockpuppetofdoom.com]  2007-01-08 14:58|| Front Page Top

#14 the Koran was in the consciousness of people who brought about democracy

Of course, he assumed it made a favorable impression. Likely not! Rather, it probably gave them some ideas on what not to do. If they weren't Christians, they certainly weren't Mohammedans.

Many of us have Korans, that doesn't mean we view it positively. Know your enemy.
Posted by  KBK 2007-01-08 15:27||   2007-01-08 15:27|| Front Page Top

#15 Considering Jefferson's response to the Barbary Pirates of "Millions for defense, not one penny for tribute", and his inquiring mind, the most likely reason for him to have a Koran is that he was researching the mentality of his enemies. Remember, the Barbary Pirates controlled several Arab city-states on the Med, and had been raiding European shipping for slaves and booty for centuries. And just like today, they used the Koran and Islam to justify their attacks of terrorism and piracy - they were only hitting the infidels.
Posted by Shieldwolf 2007-01-08 15:34||   2007-01-08 15:34|| Front Page Top

#16 Exactly Shieldwolf. Thomas Jefferson was so influenced by his dealings with the islamic Barbary emisasries when Jefferson was the ambassador of France and studying his copy of the koran (which Ellison used to swear into office) that when he became president he declared war on the islamic Barbary Pirate States (he United States first war). Thomas Jefferson had no illusions about the islam. Too bad our current leadership and media are not as intelligent.
Posted by ed 2007-01-08 17:55||   2007-01-08 17:55|| Front Page Top

#17 It influenced them all right. It prompted them to load up the Marines, go to the Med, and manhandle the Barbary pirates until there werent any left. It influenced them to end the white slave trade that was responsible for kidnapping over a million whites over a hundred year period.
Yeah, it influenced them.
Posted by bigjim-ky 2007-01-08 17:56||   2007-01-08 17:56|| Front Page Top

#18 A new study suggests that a million or more European Christians were enslaved by Muslims in North Africa between 1530 and 1780 – a far greater number than had ever been estimated before.

While the Second Barbary War (Prez Madison) did not destroy the Barbary States, it weakened them enough to sign a treaty to no longer capture American slaves. France and Britain learned that they did not need to pay jizya either and eventually overran the Pirate States.
Posted by ed 2007-01-08 19:32||   2007-01-08 19:32|| Front Page Top

#19 Of course this makes the America's forever Muslim land right?
Posted by CrazyFool 2007-01-08 21:57||   2007-01-08 21:57|| Front Page Top

23:58 Free Radical
23:44 Lone Ranger
23:39 Snuting Glatch6729
23:34 Sock Puppet of Doom
23:20 twobyfour
23:13 ed
23:07 trailing wife
23:02 BA
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22:38 ed
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