Crown Prince Abdullah yesterday said citizens and security forces must work as one to stamp out terrorism. âThis corrupt and deviant group must be eliminated,â the crown prince told a group of visitors including senior academics referring to the hostage drama in Alkhobar.
"Yup. We're gonna get right on it."
Prince Abdullah said the triple attack killed more than 10 people including Saudis and expatriates and emphasized the governmentâs resolve to track down terrorists and their supporters.
17 as of latest count...
He said the terrorists wanted to destroy the economy and create chaos and confusion here. âBy the grace of God this country will remain secure,â he said. He estimated the number of terrorists involved in the latest attack at no more than four or five. âThis deviant group says they want to scare away foreigners but the foreigners have come here to serve the country. In fact we brought them here and they are under our protection,â the crown prince said.
Working well, isn't it?
He urged all citizens to inform the police about terror suspects. âWe will take them and they will not get away. We will wipe them out no matter how long it takes,â he added.
"Even if it takes a thousand years!"
The crown prince said university teachers in particular had a duty to enlighten their students about the dangers of terrorism. Silence was not an option. âThose who keep silent about terrorists will be regarded belonging to them,â he added.
"And will receive such a talking-to!"
Also yesterday, Interior Minister Prince Naif said the Saudi leadership and people would stand together in the fight against terror. Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Fahd and Crown Prince Abdullah have given instructions to deal with this deviant group with an iron fist,â the Saudi Press Agency quoted Prince Naif as saying. The interior minister renewed his call to militants and terror suspects to surrender.
Ummm... What's Plan B?
Posted by: Fred ||
05/29/2004 9:44:12 PM ||
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#1
He forgot to say something about it being un-islamic and all.
Saudi Arabia has become the second U.S. Arab ally after Egypt to shun next monthâs G8 summit where Washington is to unveil a disputed Middle East reform plan, with Tunisia and Qatar also uncertain to attend. Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal told Fridayâs Arabic daily al-Hayat that his country "did not have any intention" of taking part in the meeting on June 8-11 in the United States.
The kingdom has criticized Washingtonâs "Greater Middle East Initiative" and once close ties have been strained since the September 2001 attacks which were blamed on al Qaeda and carried out mainly by Saudis. Egypt has already turned down a U.S. invitation to the summit because of the reform plan, and has said Tunisia and Qatar are also unlikely to go, though neither has confirmed this.
Many Arabs have criticized the initiative, designed to counter militant Islam with political and social changes, for seeking to impose reform from abroad and for failing to address key regional issues such as the Arab-Israeli conflict. Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher said on Monday Arab identity should not be "dissolved" into a wider region under the American plan. The White House said on Monday President Bush had invited the leaders of Afghanistan, Bahrain, Jordan, Yemen and Algeria to the summit at Sea Island, Georgia. But a day earlier, London-based al-Hayat quoted diplomatic sources in Washington as saying invitations had been sent to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Morocco too.
Jordanâs King Abdullah, Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh and Bahrainâs King Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa -- whose countries are all close U.S. allies -- are expected to attend. "King Abdullah will make clear Jordanâs reform drive, which began some time ago, and reiterate that the Palestinian issue is an essential part of achieving reform in the region," a Jordanian government spokeswoman said.
CNN is reporting 6 dead in three separate shootings in Al Khobar. Combining the links below, it appears there were shootings at (at least) 2 residential compounds and at the "Al Khobar Petroleum Center" - which is, actually, the Al Rashid Petroleum Centre on Doha Rd. approx 3 miles North of "downtown" Al Khobar.
Many Western companies doing business with SCECO and ARAMCO in Dhahran have offices in The Petroleum Centre, including Total, SAICâs Saudi Affilliate SSAI, and many others. There are several housing compounds within a very short distance (only 100 yds to the first of 4 Al Bustan compounds) from the Centre, including the Al Bustan compounds (referred to as Al Bustan Village), Al Rashid I & II, and Lotus. One report named 2 compounds, Oasis and Rami - Oasis is approx 1 mile away and Iâm not sure where "Rami" is located, relative to the Centre. Oasis is a very expensive high-rise apt bldg and is occupied, mainly, by Saudis.
Accounts vary as to the identities and nationalities of the victims. Some reports even indicate hostage(s) may have been taken and children among the casualties.
I lived in one of the Al Bustan compounds and my JVC (Joint Venture Co) Contracting company was located in the Rashid PetCentre. I have emailed them to see if they have any information, but I donât really expect them to stop whatever theyâre doing to answer me today. If they were not among the victims (theyâre on the ground floor) and have the chance, I assure you they are smart enough to get the hell out.
Please update the comments as information develops.
Links: CNN Rooters (most recent at time of posting) RTE News FoxNews
Arab News version, as of 9:20 p.m. EST...
Terrorists killed at least 17 people and wounded eight yesterday in a series of dramatic attacks before taking 50 foreigners hostage at a luxury housing compound here. âThere are Americans, but there are more Italians. There are also Arabs,â said a manager at the Oasis Compound, declining to be named. Gunfire and a blast were heard several hours after security forces surrounded a building in the compound where four gunmen were holding the captives following a shooting spree that began at 7.30 in the morning. At the time of going to press, security forces had shut down power and were waiting to storm the building. A policeman said the militants were using the hostages as human shields and that officials were trying to negotiate. âSecurity forces are worried about storming because the gunmen have grenades,â he said. Eastern Province Governor Prince Muhammad ibn Fahd visited the site of the operation in the afternoon.
I'm sure that made all the difference...
The first target of the gunmen was the APICORP compound which houses the headquarters of the Arab Petroleum Investment Corporation as well as its housing facilities. According to eyewitness accounts, four attackers in army uniform between 17 and 21 arrived at the gate and asked where company staff were housed. When the two security guards tried to stop them they opened fire, killing both.
"Between 17 and 21" would imply they're young 'uns. No masterminds here, just cannon fodder...
Stray bullets hit the fuel tank of a GMC Suburban with four school children arriving at the gate from the housing facility, setting it ablaze. Three students and the driver escaped from the burning vehicle but a 10-year-old Egyptian boy died trapped in the flames. A passing Briton and a Filipino employee were also caught in the hail of bullets. The Filipino later succumbed to his injuries, according to unconfirmed reports.
In the second attack around 7.50 a.m., the attackers sprayed the Petroleum Center here with bullets killing three people â an American, a Filipino and a Pakistani. Witnesses said they saw three men with Western features lying on the ground covered with newspapers. Those bodies were taken away in ambulances, they said. Saudi Television showed footage of a man with Western features, slumped in his car, apparently shot dead. It also showed a charred car and a third blood-spattered vehicle. Witnesses said the attackers dragged the body of one of the victims along the Dammam-Khobar Highway for two kilometers before dumping him near a bridge.
Just like last time...
Witnesses said the militants used a small car and were accompanied by another sports utility vehicle. Security forces stopped the men at the Sports City signal and engaged them in a gunbattle. An Indian, identified as Lawrence Gregory of Karnataka, was killed in crossfire. Shortly afterward firing started at the heavily guarded Oasis Compound. Before security forces could catch up the terrorists entered and took more than 50 hostages. Witnesses said four Saudi security men were also killed in a shootout with the gunmen yesterday morning at the Oasis Compound.
Those'd be the ones who aren't on the Bad Guys' side...
The Interior Ministry said âa number of citizens and (foreign) residents were killed or woundedâ after four gunmen âshot indiscriminately at the premises of a company and a residential compound in Alkhobar.â The US Embassy said one American was confirmed dead. APICORP said three of its employees were among the dead. Philippine Ambassador Bahnarim Guinomla confirmed to Arab News in a phone interview yesterday afternoon from Riyadh that two Filipinos were believed killed in the Alkhobar terror attack, and two Filipinos were wounded. A Lebanese man reported to have been taken hostage said he and his family were locked in their home several hours after the attacks began. âAt 9 a.m., a gunman knocked at the door of our villa, checked whether we were foreigners (Westerners), and ordered us to stay at home, saying he and his comrades were outside,â Abdel Salam Hakawati told AFP by telephone. Hakawati, his wife and son, in addition to two other Lebanese nationals, were earlier reported by diplomats to have been taken hostage and later released.
I guess they're Muslims, rather than Lebanese Christians...
An Oasis Compound employee said the militants had asked residents to show identity cards to find out their religions. â(The militants) were asking people if they were Christian or Muslims,â he said.
That's 'cuz Islam's the most tolerant of religions...
The Philippine ambassador revealed that he had talked several times to a Filipino receptionist working at the Oasis Tower Hotel in the compound, which houses mainly top business executives from a number of countries and different sectors âThe receptionist called the embassy and asked to talk to me. He told me that he and the 26 guests at the hotel were holed up in their respective rooms, waiting for the all-clear from the police.â The police ordered the guests and the receptionist to lock their rooms when the attack on the compound started, according to Guinomla. The small hotel is believed to have six floors, and was used by executives visiting Saudi Arabia. An announcement posted on a Website claimed Al-Qaeda was responsible for the attacks, but the claim could not immediately be verified.
Oh, well. In that case I'll suspect Lutherans and Hare Krishnas, too...
âThe heroic Mujahedeen in the Jerusalem Squad were able, by the grace of God, to raid the locations of American companies ... specializing in oil and exploration activities and which are plundering the Muslimsâ resources, on Saturday morning,â said a statement signed by the âAl-Qaeda Organization in the Arabian Peninsula.â The e-mail said the assault targeted the facilities âaffiliated to the US occupation company Halliburtonâ and praised the attackers as âan honorable example of Muslim youth in the Arabian Peninsula.â
You can tell they're honorable Muslim yoots by the number of hostages...
Oil industry sources said Oil Minister Ali Al-Naimi was set to meet Western oil company executives in Dhahran to reassure them after the attack.
Reassure them of what?
Situated in the Golden Belt area off the Dammam-Khobar Highway, the Oasis Compound was the top housing complex in the Eastern Province. The compound has two restaurants and a health club that were popular with Saudis and expatriates alike. Non-residents too could apply for membership in the exclusive health club. The heavily-fortified residential complex was frequented by executives of various sectors. Residents too were of different nationalities and held top positions in various companies. The chairman of the Saad Group, which owns the compound, Maan Al-Sanea, was with the security forces throughout the siege.
Posted by: .com ||
05/29/2004 5:37:39 AM ||
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#1
Apologies for title: "is" should be "in" and the CNN report is the most recent according to Google.
A4617 - If you are in Dhahran, plz update the thread!
#2
BTW, The British Consulate in Al Khobar is located in the main Al Bustan compound.
Current summany:
Multiple reports now say that the Oases Apt compound seems to be the main residential target and that there is currently a standoff with some number of gunmen holding hostages in that compound. Some reports say the hostages are Lebanese.
More as the fog of wild-eyed Arab reporting clears.
#3
Confirmed by friend at Aramco:
"Shootings at Petroleum Center:
3 expatriates (one philipino, one American), 2 security guards - this one is pretty solid news as our secretary's contractor's offices are there and his roommate is an eyewitness."
Multiple emails with other shootings (not confirmed):
Shootings at APICorp building
Shootings at EuroVillage
Hostages at Oasis compound - still ongoing
Hostages at Saad Medical Center - still ongoing
Total of eight deaths rumored so far - no confirmation
#4
Dhahran
2 philipinos, 1 american, 2 saudi security guards, 1 ten year Egyptian girl. Some people are reporting that some Indian workers got killed bringing up the total of deaths to 11.
There is a hostage situation going at the Oasis Compound. 6 lebanese hostages were released. They do not know the exact number of hostages being held.
Correction: the Oasis Compound and Saad Medical center are the same.
#9
It's bullshit pure and simple. Why invent a convoluted conspiracy theory when the simple truth is evident? Occam's razor is a good principle to apply even to politics.
It is not strange or out of order for radical Islamists to behead Jews.
They did it to Daniel Pearl,
They did it to Nicholas Berg.
It's called CULTURAL DIFFERENCE.
Because you find it very difficult to see things from the perspective of a fascist Islamist, being a child of the kindly west, you think it must all be a propaganda lie.
It is very important for us to be able to "walk a mile in another man's shoes" ie: to imagine what they are thinking and what their motivations are to be able to understand the world we live in.
To those on the left, I say: educate yourselves about the CULTURE and MINDSET of radical, fundamentalist Islam and then you will understand sometimes the cultural meaning behind such symbolic actions.
#10
No wonder you're anonymous!
Why in the world would the CIA want to execute poor, innocuous Nick Berg?!
You've got your tin-foil beanie on way too tight, Anon5037!
Posted by: Jen ||
05/29/2004 10:59 Comments ||
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#11
.com and A4617---Many thanks for you efforts in bringing timely and as accurate as possible news of the attacks in SA. I am sure that this is the tip of the iceberg coming up for what will happen in the future. Events are accelerating. Your info is appreciated!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/29/2004 12:31 Comments ||
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#12
any comments from Prince Naive?
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 12:45 Comments ||
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#13
Rooters story appears to be the best roundup.
16 dead - 9 Saudis & 7 Expats. Egyptian child (not sure if girl) was on a schoolbus. Al Arabiya TV pictures shown on the Rooters and FoxNews TV (silver Toyota station wagon burned out) look like they were take inside the Al Rashid Petroleum Ctr compound on driveway in front of the 2 office bldgs that comprise the center.
I have another email fwd'd which describes some people inside one of the Bustan compounds. One man was shot / killed and a woman was shot in the legs and is in surgery - unclear if inside the Al Bustan compound, but certainly implied. This info thus MAY indicate a second American dead - unclear if same as the American killed at the PetCtr. I am unsure of the identify the Org of the man authoring the fwd'd email, so I'll only quote a snippet and delete the Org's acronym. Email was sent at 3:46 PM Saudi time (GMT +3) - 8 hrs ahead of Eastern US / 11 ahead of Pacific US.
"We have not been able to get across the road at Al Bustan & into the [xxx] offices...so I have been here at Laura's house most of the day. Since we can't get to the [xxx] office I cannot send a message to the membership - so we'll have to use the old method of contacting friends. Please try to send this to as many [xxx] members as you can... and for the members who receive this - please pass along to your other [xxx] / American friends.
The hostage situation is still on-going at the Oasis compound, as best we can tell. We can still hear shots being fired from here at Al Bustan, but I sincerely believe that we're in a hard enough target to be safe. Al Bustan is still on a firm lock-down, which is OK w/ me.
There have been 2 [xxx] members, that we know of, who were directly involved. One of our members was shot & killed this morning...but I will hold off providing the name in respect for his wife & family.
Another member's wife (Board member as well) was shot in the legs & is currently undergoing surgery. Our prayers are w/ her for a full & rapid recovery.
Once again, I STRONGLY suggest that YOU ALL take an immediate assessment of your office & compound security. If you do not have a hard target, then do whatever you have to do to get the same!!! If this means staying behind compound walls until you have armed security at your offices / worksites, then do it."
[Apologies to this Org and the email's author if including it here should cause any offense.]
#14
US Embassy's urging all Merkins to leave the Magic Kingdom...
well, looks like the Saoodis have birthed a monster that may cut off their oiltick lifeblood. Good luck assholes
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 13:11 Comments ||
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#15
Fox sez 50 Hostages - most foreigners
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 13:39 Comments ||
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#16
And some are Americans. Recall the bad movies made about the Black [insert favorite month here] sky-jackings back in the 70's where they collected passports from captive passengers looking for Joooos?
Humans are incremental, subject to habituation, thus these onesies / twosies killings are not sinking in where the victims are not personally known. Only the gruesome nature of their barbarity makes the "news" in this insane situation. I'm afraid it will, indeed, take the big hit to get our collective attention.
Then, in waves according to their level of attention span, somnambulism, and general intelligence, succeeding numbers of American will get it: us vs. them.
#18
Here's the best / latest -- excerpted from the Atlanta Journal via AP:
KHOBAR, Saudi Arabia (AP)--Saudi security forces stormed an upscale expatriate housing complex where suspected Islamic militants holed up with a reported 50 hostages after attacking oil company offices. The kingdom's de facto ruler said at least 10 people, including a child, were killed in the initial rampage.
At least three Westerners, including an American, were believed among the dead in the second fatal attack on oil industry targets in the kingdom this month. Philippines officials also were investigating whether two of their citizens had been killed, and there were reports the death toll could be as high as 15 or 16.
A Saudi security official had said the attack was ``definitely inspired by al-Qaida,'' as evidenced by the method.
Crown Prince Abdullah said four militants stormed the oil company offices in Khobar and ``those killed are about 10--Saudis and non-Saudis.'' Abdullah, who effectively rules Saudi Arabia because King Fahd is ailing, was speaking at a meeting with professors from King Abdul Aziz University in the Red Sea port city of Jiddah.
``Among those killed was a female child,'' Abdullah said, adding the attackers were now surrounded. There had been earlier reports a boy was killed.
A police officer on the scene told The Associated Press the attackers were surrounded on the sixth floor of a high-rise building in the Oasis, a housing complex, and had ``people with them,'' meaning hostages. The officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity, could not say how many hostages were being held.
But a senior manager of the complex said 50 hostages were being held, among them Americans, Italians and Arabs. The manager spoke on condition of anonymity.
Area residents said the attackers went into a residential building, separated Muslims from non-Muslims and freed the Muslims.
There had been earlier reports that security officials had stormed the compound and the hostages were freed, but area residents said they had heard the security forces had been driven off by grenades and were awaiting reinforcements.
A report carried by the official Saudi Press Agency, attributed to an unidentified senior Interior Ministry official, said four militants fired randomly at a company and at a residential compound at about 7:30 a.m. (0430 GMT), then entered a residential compound ``where the security forces surrounded them in one of the buildings. They are currently being dealt with.''
The three sites hit in Khobar, 400 kilometers (250 miles) northeast of Riyadh, the capital, were a compound of offices and housing for Apicorp, the investment arm of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Companies; the Petroleum Center building that contained offices for various international oil-related companies; and the Oasis residential compound, a luxurious, walled expatriate community on the Gulf.
Among the companies in the compounds are Royal Dutch/Shell Group, Total SA and Saudi Aramco; Lukoil Holdings of Russia; and China Petroleum & Chemical Corp., or Sinopec. Shell spokesman Simon Buerck and a Saudi oil industry official, Yahya Shinawi, said employees from those companies were safe.
Additional companies believed to be in the compounds included Schlumberger and INOVx, both based in Houston, and Aveva, of Cambridge, England. There was no immediate word on their employees.
Saudi Arabia relies heavily on 6 million expatriate workers to run its oil industry and other sectors. Many Western energy corporations have offices in Khobar, which is the center of Saudi Arabia's oil industry and where state-owned energy giant Saudi Arabian Oil Co.--better known as Saudi Aramco--has its headquarters.
Concern over whether Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil producer, can protect its oil industry from terrorists were partly blamed for recent oil price spikes to new highs.
#19
11A5S - Thx - I am actually quite saddened by the fact that we will end up at that point. I don't look forward to a genocidal form of war, but they are not going to stop, their "moderates" (read: currently passive) aren't going to even try to effectively dissuade them (giving mere lip service, at most), and we won't act decisively until we're backed into a corner - and there is no real alternative. I'm sure you can put it both more eloquently and in the correct historical perspective. I'll offer my perspecive on it this way: The truth is, I don't want my grandchildren to read about the "Hiroshima" of his father's generation, as we have done with our fathers... but that's where it looks like we'll end up. But I won't apologize for it - any more than my father felt compelled to apologize for Hiroshima. Truly depressing, IMO.
#20
Dotcom: I'm too sick right now to be eloquent. But you know what? I'd rather be hounded by my grandchild about some future genocide than see him grow up a slave. I too hope that we can find some clever way out of this like we did during the Cold War. Like you, I don't think that we will.
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/29/2004 15:45 Comments ||
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#22
11A5S - Hey, get well, bro! Shoot me an address and I'll send some "fluids" (in convenient 12 oz. bottles, heh) over immediately! You can get anything delivered these days... I loves capitalism!
Rafael, lessee... here's the SA Resources map link... Here's a bunch more SA maps... I know it's approx 30-40 km "deep" from coast to cover the oil sands and appears to be, what, 1200 KM from Khafji to the fuzzy border with Oman?
#23
"Area residents said the attackers went into a residential building, separated Muslims from non-Muslims and freed the Muslims."
Everyone caught this tidbit, right?
Latest info says most hostages still held are Italians, but there are some Americans among them.
#25
"Then, in waves according to their level of attention span, somnambulism, and general intelligence, succeeding numbers of American will get it: us vs. them."
I "got it" on November 4, 1979, and I've long since grown weary of waiting for others to figure it out. Like you, I suspect it will end up becoming an all-out death match, a fight to the finish that will leave hundreds of millions dead. And our grandchildren will ask, "Grandpa, why did we kill all those people? Didn't anybody think of trying to reform their society first, instead of just destroying it?"
And the answer will have to be, "Yes, we actually did try to do that, starting with Iraq; but the Democratic Party decided to play politics with the war, and convinced America to give up before we could get the job done."
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/29/2004 16:49 Comments ||
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#26
.com,
Have you been able to confirm that a brit killed was dragged a mile? That rumor has been circulating here from the start. My husband worked on the Gas Initiative and he met a brit, by the name of Hamilton, who was the president of Apicorp. Apicorp was the first company attacked.
#28
A4617 - Plz describe for me the location of the APIcorp bldg. It must have been finished during the last year, since I left.
Much of what has been reported seems to have happened on (what used to be called) the Shuttle Rd - it's Prince DingDong whatever and runs along in front of the Silver Tower - same road that Oasis & Saad Medical Clinic (separated by a street - my Dutch dentist was located in Saad) are on and runs West to Panda / Al Aziziyah / Souk's at the highway - what you call it depends on how long you've been there, heh - reverse chronology given.
Note that Some, BBC and others, are saying Oasis is a waterfront property - what Bullshit! As you and I know, nothing is actually built on the water's edge - that's either promenade or "picnic" space - everything is across the Corniche (from Fuad? Mall North) or separated by the promenade (South of the Mall - the straight section where Al Tamimi Safeway / Al Jarira Bookstore are located down to The Gulf Center where Dhahran Blvd intersects). The twits are talking to people who've never been there. Sheesh.
#30
11A5S - Welcome, bro! I may be in Reno soon - LV reminds me a little too much of this other place that I didn't much care for... Lol! They say it's greener, cooler, and uh, cooler there!
#31
com,
I have never seen the building (Apicorp) myself, so I would not know what it looks like.
You have answered my question (posted in other thread) of where you lived while in Kingdom, by given the location of your dentist. I take it that you were not with Aramco. Not big loss!
I really do not know where these newspapers get their information. Nothing official has been said yet. Not even the US Consulate has issued the customary Warden Message (I find them to be useless). The only thing out of the ordinary in camp, was that some departments at Aramco had meetings to try to calm the rumors but nobody really knew anything concrete. True to Saudi form, we will never know all the details of these attacks. There are some families living but not mass exodus. I think, that we will see more families, including mine, leave after July 21st, when the school year is over.
I, personally, cannot take the pressure anymore. The Oases compound is the one place that we frequent/ed 4 times a week since my husband and son play Hockey there.
#32
A4617 - I understand, and commiserate regards the uprooting / upheaval in leaving. It's no small thing to relocate internationally, especially with family and school-age children.
When I made my knee-jerk decision to get out a year ago, I had no real idea what I was biting off - I didn't get my "stuff" until about 3 weeks ago, cuz I hung out in Chaing Mai, Thailand for 9 months. Now I'm here in Sin City and I've wasted beaucoup dollars setting up shop, but as I said to 11A5S, I don't think I'll be staying - it looks a LOT like and feels a LOT like The Great Litterbox. Too much like it. I'm looking at Reno / Carson City, somewhere in Texas, and maybe even Del Mar / SD, Laficornia - cuz I know there's work in the last 2 places. LV is dry, internet-work-wise and Reno will prolly be even worse, so it's likely I'll change my mind yet again.
There is some GREAT info here you might want to check out... ignoring IT slant, if you & hubbie aren't 'puter geeks like me (heh) and focusing on the livability and resource links there.
But get out of there. The most I have to worry about now is whether the pizza will be hot when it gets here. No more checking the car for bombs, getting stabbed in the back at Aramco, and fighting language problems ("Pizza? You order pizza?"), lol!
#33
Here's the most cogent report I've seen thus far, from the Independent:
The incident began when up to four gunmen in military dress drove cars with military markings into the Apicorp complex in the eastern city of Khobar and began shooting. They entered the Oasis housing compound where they took the hostages, believed to be Americans, Italians and Arabs. An employee at the Oasis compound said the militants asked residents to show their identity cards to find out their religion. They separated Muslims from non-Muslims and freed the Muslims.
Hundreds of Saudi police evacuated and cordoned off the complex before trying to storm the building. Reports last night said that the militants and the hostages were holed up on the sixth floor of a high-rise building and at one point the Saudi security forces had been driven off with grenades and had had to wait for reinforcements.
A policeman said the militants were using the hostages as human shields and that security officials were trying to negotiate a release. "Security forces are worried about storming because the gunmen have grenades," he said.
An American, a Briton, the 10-year-old boy (from Egypt), two Filipinos, an Indian and a Pakistani, are believed to have been killed, along with two Saudi civilians and seven security force members, although the prince put the number of dead at 10.
The Egyptian boy is believed to have died when the car he was riding to school in was fired upon. "The terrorists opened heavy fire on the car, killing Rami and setting fire to the car," his father said.
Oliver Alabaster, the brother-in-law of one of the compound's residents, who hid behind a cupboard and phoned through to the US, told the BBC that his relative "awoke to see black-hooded men enter a house across the street. She saw her neighbour run out of the back door, then saw her shot in the legs".
Khobar is the centre of Saudi Arabia's oil industry, which relies on 6 million expatriate workers.
The three sites hit were an offices and housing compound for Apicorp (the investment arm of the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries), the Petroleum Centre building that contains offices for oil companies including Royal/Dutch Shell and Russian and Chinese companies, and lastly the Oasis residential compound.
#34
4:44 PST - Fox sez the SA forces are launching an attack
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 19:43 Comments ||
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#35
Frank - now Fox has reported renewed gunfire and the "storming-ad-infinitum" has finally occurred and they're saying 7 Americans were "rescued" - 2 were wounded...
Developing, as they say, vewy vewy slowly, per Nayef's usual "They're sourrounded!" style...
#38
This link is provided to show that Abdullah is in control of Gov't TV, not Nayef, and is apparently serious about stopping violence... where Muslims are hurt.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with all of those other links on the page. Links to totally disgusting sex pix & stuff. Nope. Nothing. No way. Read the story. Don't click those links. Men: consider it a test of, um, something. Dunno what, but...
#39
PD - what will the withdrawal of all US citizens do to the oil supply? Can the oilticks keep things going?
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 21:32 Comments ||
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#40
Here are a couple of map links. This one is for Saudi Arabia, and this one is for Dhahran. I think that "Khubar" on the Dhahran map is the Khobar they are talking about in the articles. I'm not sure.
#41
The hidden enemy (Iran) along with the visible (al Qa'ida) is attempting to drive us out of Arabia.
They just want us to leave the oil behind so they can utilize all those petrol-profits to fuel jihad against the West.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/29/2004 21:58 Comments ||
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#42
Frank G - Now that's a good question, bro.
First blush response is to look where expats are used... I believe (could be wrong) that "we" are primarily used in 3 areas: plant operations improvement planning & monitoring, plant maint & upgrade implementation & eval, and regular old IT crappola...
1. Plant (refinery / distribution / terminal ops) - I think throughput drops over time. Most expats here are engineers of some sort, and most work on improving output by improving / streamlining plant opns. Keep getting the max out of the ground that tech and mgmt allow. We do the pushing for progress (new tech), write most / all of the justifications, take the heat for failures and give away credit for successes. Social lubrication and motivation.
2. Plant maintenance slows, I believe. Some engineers are directed at "Socratic" operations: reporting maint failures / screw-ups to Saudi Mgrs so they can light fires under slackers with full "coverage"... in SA criticism can't come directly from anyone - especially infidels, y'know! I dunno if maint will be maintained (redundant?) without expats to blame any social faux pas on - such as criticizing poor plant opns where Mgr is connected. We are the, uh, whipping boy for everything. It lets them do what needs to be done without losing face, etc. If no one pushes maint, then maint will slow, IMO.
3. IT is prolly the other major concentration of Expats... dunno, except they'll have to replace them or nothing will get done in this arena that isn't already running. Mgmt software of various sorts is already runing, of course, so it should keep on running. Major projects, such as SAP ERP implementations will continue but at slower pace cuz SAP will send its own people and SA will pay the hazard pay freight. This is the least of the lot in terms of affecting the oil flow, however. Info Mgmt is just reports at the end of the day - Payroll is the only IT function that really matters when the shit hits the fan, eh?
In sum, I think it all just starts to slow down. Their social structure has such a high inertial brake built into it (duh!) that they really need constant pushing. The question in my mind is what will be used to replace Westerners - cuz they'll HAVE to - the avg Saudi does not do 2 hrs work per day. Will Russians, French, Chinese, Indians & PakiWakis do the trick, replace the expertise, do the pushing? Not sure, but I don't think so. Even though we're resented or even hated, Americans and Brits are the ultimate ticket: they know we know our shit and we're arrogant enough to believe that "right is right" is the correct creed -- instead of "who's your daddy?". Lol!
That's a lot of blather. GK, others, want to weigh in with opining commentary?
#43
Excellent follow-up summary, Fred! I guess the "heavily fortified" Oasis compound wasn't quite up to snuff, in the breach, eh?
So they turn off the power and wait until dark to "storm" the place. Okay. Storm over or still in progress? In Arabia, expecting fact within a short time period is a fool's errand - it takes time to put a happy face on shit like this.
If it turns out well, then the Saudi "security forces" (read: Nayef) will get the credit. If not, well, we know "Zionists" are the default fall-back position.
#44
Quana - Indeed, the "Khubar" shown is Al Khobar. Phonetic spellings vary wildly - which doesn't help... in a hundred different ways! You should try working in IT over there where a guy can have 4 or 5 different spellings of his name. Sheesh! The phonebook entry ends up being the one that matters in most system DBs. Side note: I was told by a "friendly" Saudi that most of the name plates, which show your name both in Roman chars and Arabic script, were incorrectly translated. He said my first name had been mangled to be Arabic for "piss" - which I found to be hysterically funny since, given my attitude and demeanor, it prolly fit how they saw me quite well, heh!
#45
Thanks for clarifying that, .com. Almost everything I know about Saudi was garnered from secondhand tales, but I sure know a lot of them. Too many, I reckon.
#46
Oh yeah...and this might be of interest...if you ever have to spell those pesky Arabic names again...
Seems these folks have worked up a (pilot) program to search/simplify spellings. LINK
#47
Quana - good link! You know that the coppers have to be able to do this and some straight-forward "soundex rules" should do much of the trick, with a tweak here 'n there.
I wrote a soundex routine back in, um, I think it was 1981 for a DB I developed using the simplest form: spell it phonetically or with any known spelling, eliminate the vowels and doubled consonant letters. Voila! Took about an hour to figure out what's important and 5 minutes to code it, heh. Far more sophisticated stuff around now, I'm sure, but even the old one would catch 90%+. I'd wager.
Saudi Forces stormed the Oases Compound after managing to dismantled booby traps on the upper floors.
I fear the worst is going to happen: they might blow up the building with all the hostages in it. I hope not.
#53
Okay, just saw the helicopter footage on Fox - Al Arabiya tape footage. Don't know when shot.
Prince Bandar on phone sez we'll know, "in a few hours" ... "God willing" etc - the usual Arab crap. Making a big deal about Saudis rescuing Americans - See?!!?! We are your FRIENDS!!!
#54
They just stopped (CNN Intenational). They will continue covering as new actions develop.
Please visit this site for some commentaries posted from inside the compound.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/3760163.stm
#55
Bandar continues to answer other than the questions asked. "Did you have any warning this was going to happen?" Bandar says something like "we were ready for them, but it is hard. We have to be right 100% of the time, they only have to get it right once." Who, exactly, does he think he's kidding? We're all in this together? ...oh geez...I'm ranting...
Anchor is asking about the attackers wearing 'uniforms'...Bandar is saying they were wearing similar dress, but they are not dressed as Saudi forces...
"I think at this moment when we are engaged fighting evil, I call on our friends in America..." blah blah blah...anchor cut him off...he was starting to sound...uh...a little frenetic...
#56
Yep - spot-on, Quana. CNN Int'l (which I don't get, as far as I know - hey, with 500 channels, who knows?) may deem it worthy, but other CNN channels didn't and continue with normal programming.
Now Fox has resumed normal pgms -- the Bandar "We'll know in a few hours." statement must be operative. As I said before, it takes time to put lipstick on a pig (or put a happy face on this shit, heh), so we wait...
#57
quotes are approximate...Ginsberg is on Fox News now..."Fifth attack in recent months..."
Anchor "about a dozen attacks in the past year"
Ginsberg "attacks against fellow muslims suggests a change in operations of Al Qaeda..may be Taqquiri.."
Ginsberg "Taqqiris are the same group that attacked Madrid...a group following a more sinsiter religious order...throughout north Africa...Zaqawri is a member of this group..."
Anchor "why such attacks now?"
Ginsberg...Al Qaeda wants to damange economies of SA and USA...meant to undermine Saudi royal control of the country and the oil...
#59
Betcha Prince Bandar had to change his Depends half-a-dozen times just for his snippets on FoxNews...!
Boy, those chickens coming home to roost are scary, aren't they?
How I wish AQ would pick on the right people--the House of Sods--instead of our wonderful American (and Western) ex-pat oil workers!
Posted by: Jen ||
05/30/2004 1:12 Comments ||
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#60
Could the CIA have killed Nicholas Berg?
Sources at Kodak have suggested that the digital watermarks on the Berg and Abu Ghraib videos are exactly the same. While at this point we have no concrete confirmation of this, it would fit with other examples of how the Berg execution and Abu Ghraib torture scenes are very similar. The contention is that Berg was killed by the US military as a staged psy-op to distract attention from the torture scandal, an execution blamed on 'CIArabs'.
Word is spreading around Kodak Park in Rochester NY that Kodak film experts have analyzed the Nick Berg video and some of the Abu Grhaib Prison videos comparing them for certain encrypted recording signatures.
Each video camera leaves a certain signature mark, much like a fingerprint or striation markings on bullets in gun barrels. Same goes for CD-ROM Burners, they leave a trace or type of Cookies on the finished product.
These are tested by computer and not visible by the naked eye. Experts here after lunch have concluded that one of the 2 video cameras used in the Nick Berg "beheading" was also used to film US troop abuses of Iraqi detainees.
#61
I have heard this through the spanish news wires. Yesterday, for example, several prestigious sites in Madrid picked it up, as well. Do any of you know anything about this?
Two Australian nationals believed to have links to the al Qaeda network have been charged with terror-related activities in Lebanon. Itâs not yet known when theyâll go to trial. Lebanonâs military prosecutor said a Jordanian Australian identified only as Saleh J and a Lebanese Australian named Haitham M, were accused of belonging to terrorist organisations, possessing weapons and plotting terrorist activities. They were charged together with a Lebanese citizen, a Palestinian and a man whose nationality was unclear. No further details were given. Last December, two Australian brothers were sentenced in absentia by a Beirut court to 10 years for terror-related offenses. They were among 27 others convicted on similar charges.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
05/29/2004 12:58:12 AM ||
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Just what do you have to do to be charged with terrorism in Lebanon? Most of the country is one big terrorist camp. Oh, I get it, you have to be against Syria.
Posted by: ed ||
05/29/2004 1:06 Comments ||
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Berwexdan originally popped this into the holding tank with just the citation, but the article is pretty informative so here it is.
KONGRA-GEL, the successor to the outlawed separatist Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), has ended its ceasefire and warned tourists and foreign investors to avoid Turkey, a report said Saturday. The report came after a spate of recent violence and as Turkey prepares to host US President George W. Bush and other leaders at a major NATO summit in Istanbul on June 28-29. "Our commitment to the ceasefire will cease to exist from June 1," KONGRA-GEL said in a statement carried on the website of the German-based pro-Kurdish Mesopotamia news agency.
"We are ceasing the ceasefire so as to cease the ceasing of fire!"
KONGRA-GEL said the ceasefire which it has observed since September 1999 had become meangingless because of what it called "effective annihilation operations" carried out by Turkish security forces against its fighters over the past three months, the report said. "Tourists should not choose Turkey," the statement added. "We appeal to people wanting to invest in Turkey not to come here and choose to invest in a conflict zone. Otherwise we will not be responsible for the damage." ... "We will engage in various types of activities targeting Turkish forces," it said.
Such as running away, duck and cover, and making faces when the Turks turn their backs.
Some 5,000 PKK rebels are currrently cowering holed up in the mountains of northern Iraq's Kurdish region. The PKK has several times changed names and is now known as Gillette KONGRA-GEL. Its reincarnations have also been put on the list of terrorist organizations by both the United States and the European Union. Turkish officials had categorically rejected the rebels' 1999 truce. But Ankara has since then made some concessions towards its Kurdish population, who make up some 20 percent of the 70-million-strong population. It has allowed private institutions to teach the Kurdish language and permitted limited Kurdish-language broadcasts in a bid to boost its chances of joining the European Union.
Worked well, too.
There was no immediate reaction from Turkish officials Saturday to the reported end to the ceasefire.
"Atul! Get the 1st battalion ready for operations, we need to send a response!"
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/29/2004 1:01:12 PM ||
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#1
Turkey's PM, Erdogan, was an outspoken Islamist prior to assuming his current position effective March 14, 2003. I would not trust him as far as I could throw him.
The PKK have not fired a shot in 4 years. Then Bremer waded onto this copacetic situation in January, 2004 and declared the PKK a terrorist organization. Turkey is waving a carrot of providing the US a back door for troop rotation and withdrawal from Iraq, though Turkey was instrumental in sabotaging our initial plans for invading Iraq.
I hope President Bush does not pull out the rug from under the Kurds, who have been our stalwart allies as a result of Erdogan's arm twisting during the NATO conference scheduled for the end of June.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FA31Ak01.html
"US's Kurdish ban risks backfiring" 1/31/04 ...The Kurds were an integral ally in the US-led invasion of Iraq, and not only came to the coalition's rescue in the north of Iraq, but also gave forces a transit way to Baghdad, something Turkey was not willing to do. No US or coalition forces have been killed in northern Kurdish-controlled areas of Iraq...During his meeting with Erdogan[in January], when concerns about Iraq were brought to the agenda, Bush reportedly confirmed that speculation about Iraq's territorial integrity will not be allowed. "We are aware of your [Turkey's] anxieties. You could be sure. I am an honest man; trust my word." In a joint press briefing held after the meetings, Bush acknowledged that Turkey is an important friend and ally of the US...
Posted by: rex ||
05/29/2004 16:10 Comments ||
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There are "serious threats" hanging over President Bushâs planned visit to Rome next week, according to the Italian government. Italian Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu said authorities were bracing for possible disturbances. "Serious threats, which worry us but do not frighten us, are emerging for June 2 (Italyâs national day) and Bushâs visit," Mr Pisanu said. He was apparently referring to the risk of violence during demonstrations that are planned when President Bush visits Rome next Friday and Saturday. Mr Bush is travelling to Italy ahead of an appearance in Normandy for celebrations of the 60th anniversary of the D-Day landings on June 6.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/29/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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#1
I wonder what Jerry Brown would say if Bush visited Oakland.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
05/29/2004 0:13 Comments ||
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#2
Bush should never go there LOL
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/29/2004 0:23 Comments ||
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#3
I wonder what the serious threats are. Peacenicks or jihadies. Peacenicks are a LOL, Jihadies are another matter. Italians are as grown up as we are. I wish we had some Italian Rantburgers. But I hope GWB goes and does well. But I think the 'feel good crowd' will spin it as a war crime. To bad. So easy when you don't have the UN doing your security.
#4
There are "serious threats" hanging over President Bushâs planned visit to Rome next week
Let's face it, there are serious threats to Bush wherever he sets foot in Europe. Good thing he's got all those WW2 vets to protect him (80 years old and they can still kick jihadi ass).
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/29/2004 3:23 Comments ||
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#5
I'm more worried about when Bush visits Normandy. The French can't be trusted to provide reliable security.
Posted by: Charles ||
05/29/2004 6:08 Comments ||
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#6
I'll echo Charles, the French just plain can't be trusted, I think we've all learned that.
But if anything were to happen to an American president on thier soil, the effect on our already shaky relations with the frogs could be disasterous for them.
#9
I don't like your tone, Anon5042.
I think Cheney would be fine in the driver's seat, but I want President Bush!
I'm seriously praying for his safety and wellbeing on this trip!
Posted by: Jen ||
05/29/2004 12:14 Comments ||
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#10
Jen, I think A5042 might be referring to Cheney Unleashed⢠- a consequence some of our enemies haven't quite thought through ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 12:32 Comments ||
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#11
How bout Rummie or Condy for prez? If I were American I'd vote for either of them!
Bush is under immediate threat 24/7, so big whoop about this new one.
Did anybody read about how Madonna was gonna do a tour of Israel but cancelled after palestinians sent threats against her children in the mail? Apparently they had details of all her staff/movements and freaked her out so much she cancelled.
If that's what they'll do to stop Madonna, imagine what Bush's daily life of security hell must be like!
Which is also why I like him so much: for so many fascist Islamists to want to kill him, he must be doing sumpin right.
#12
Given Bush's actions, he's a target no matter where he goes - but there are a lot more people over there who have the necessary stupidity to try something.
Only thing that might seriously worry me is that '00 curse thing, where every President elected in a year ending in zero has either died or had an attempt on their life while in office . . .
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/29/2004 14:17 Comments ||
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#13
why, oh lord, couldn't Carter have waited 4 years...
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 14:18 Comments ||
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#14
Because he's a liberal, the nuts don't want to assasinate their best friend.
Posted by: Charles ||
05/29/2004 14:36 Comments ||
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#1
When he called the FBI in Washington, D.C., Mac said the man who answered the telephone said he had to call the Denver office and declined to take down any of the information...When he called the Denver office, he was shuttled to voice mail because the agents were busy, Mac said. It was five hours before a seemingly uninterested agent called back.
For whatever reason, not one of the Feebs' better moments.
Chanting âGet out of Najaf, Get out of Karbala,â about 200 Muslims protested the American occupation of Iraq on Friday with signs, as drivers honked their support along a main street in the heart of the city. The protesters in this heavily Arab suburb of Detroit said they are angry about the destruction of holy sites in Iraq and the ongoing violence against its people. âItâs about time for President Bush to admit the mistakes heâs been making,â said Imam Husham Al-Husainy, director of the Karbalaa Islamic Education Center. Husainy supported the war to oust Saddam Hussein when it started.
Just more than a year ago, Iraqis in America were cheering in the same streets when the statue of Saddam Hussein fell. Now some of the same people are calling for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops. At least four mosques participated in the protest. Husainy said the protests will continue weekly until the troops leave. âThe thing which disturbs us a lot is the humiliation of our people -- the prisoners in Abu Ghraib -- all the attacks on the holy shrines,â said Syeda Kulsoom, a 29-year-old Pakistani woman participating in the protest. Kulsoom said the only acceptable resolution would be the withdrawal of American troops. Dan Mekled, 39, of the Islamic Center of America, said the United States has âflexed a little bit too much muscle in our effort to export democracy.â
#1
Ingrates!
Maybe the words "except Muslims" should be installed in the Constitution
I will be waiting for the Muslim Community's condemnation today for the murders of westerners today in Saudi Arabia. Or maybe a small thank you for freeing Iraq.
Posted by: John Long Hair ||
05/29/2004 12:45 Comments ||
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#2
You stupid people. If holy sites are getting hit, it is because our guys are returning fire from the Islamic Fascists who are using them as cover.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
05/29/2004 13:07 Comments ||
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#3
What do you expect from a bunch of anti-American goofs.
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/29/2004 13:34 Comments ||
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#4
Sheesh. I suspect that sooner or later, we're going to end up having to deport these people or confine them in internment camps.
I've been trying awfully hard since 9/11 to avoid the conclusion that we're at war with Islam itself, not just some wacko offshoot of it; but every day it gets more difficult to maintain that stance.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/29/2004 13:37 Comments ||
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#5
Deport makes more sense than internment, the left can hold up their internments as propaganda far better than they can hold up deportations.
In any case, a The Corner (NRO) post revealed that many Muslims polled lean left on many domestic issues ... so much for "Muslims = budding conservatives" :P
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
05/29/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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#7
"Deport makes more sense than internment, the left can hold up their internments as propaganda..."
Just make the camps bigger, and intern them, too.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/29/2004 14:16 Comments ||
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#8
More humiliation. I'm getting tired of it. Aren't they the least bit proud of what we're doing over there?
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/29/2004 14:17 Comments ||
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#9
Chronic Humiliation Syndrome⢠-not curable with prescription drugs currently available - now there's hope with the "Shut Your Whining Piehole" Cluebatâ¢
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 14:21 Comments ||
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#10
The thing which disturbs us a lot is the humiliation of our people
Americans think of other Americans as "our people". Get the hell back to "your people". Americans don't need or want you.
Posted by: ed ||
05/29/2004 14:22 Comments ||
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#11
Personally I support 'deportation camps' instead of 'internment camps' - and not just for Muslims but *all* illegal immigrats. Not base on their nationallity or religion or race but on their legal status to exist in the United States.
Course that won't go very far with the media who will immediately equalate it with the concentration camps and the U.S. 'internment' camps.
#12
Aren't they the least bit proud of what we're doing over there?
Of course not. Apparently they don't want Iraqis to enjoy the same freedoms that they themselves enjoy here.
âflexed a little bit too much muscle in our effort to export democracy.â
That statement says it all. These guys prefer theocratic misery over a modern, progressive, democratic system. Makes you wonder, what are they doing here?
Which brings up a point: if democracy was under attack in America itself, would this turd have made the exact, same statement about flexing too much muscle to defend democracy here??
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/29/2004 14:42 Comments ||
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#13
Pay no attention to this nonsense; the media loves them some people who protest. So, would the media have us believe there is an, oooh, arab "street'? and are we to abandon the democratic process and accomodate these media darlings? I don't think so! what rock must be overturned to find some anti-american blatherheads? on memorial day weekend no less.
The media always makes common cause with wretched washed up on our shores. BFD. StFW?
#14
Unfortunately, I don't think the media had to scratch too hard to find these "anti-American blatherheads" per #13's description.
The Islamic religion requires absolute loyalty and transcends patriotism to any country. So it's no surprise that Muslim Americans would not be cheering American troops fighting in Iraq, because troops are fighting against Muslims. Regardless of whether or not these Muslims in Iraq are bad guys, they are Muslims.
What would happen if the draft were re-instated, I wonder? How would Muslim-American draftees react if we required that they fight against Muslim nations?
Posted by: rex ||
05/29/2004 16:27 Comments ||
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#15
Islamic Priority List
1. Muslim first
2. See #1
We're learning... Hyphenating Muslims is just as imbecillic as hyphenating Americans. I love this 43.7% pregnant stuff. Fact is, either you is or you isn't... Bugs said it so well...
#16
FOAD, Islomoturds! Go home to the desert where you belong. And while you're at it, you can be thankful that YOU can demonstrate in this country WITHOUT being thrown into Abu Gharib, you idiot Islamic pseudo-men shit-head pig suckers.
The federal official in charge of the nation's airports said Friday security has been "stepped up a notch" in the face of renewed terror warnings this holiday weekend and said authorities are asking the public to be vigilant. "If they see anything unusual, report it â an unattended package, something that just doesn't look right, even odd behavior in the terminal or on the aircraft," FAA Administrator Marion Blakey said on NBC's "Today" show. She said photographs of seven suspected terrorists released Wednesday by the FBI "are everywhere" and that screeners have been redeployed to some of the busiest airports in anticipation of heavy Memorial Day holiday travel. "Certainly we are going to be on red alert looking for those individuals," Blakey said on ABC's "Good Morning America."
With 200 million people expected to fly over the summer months, she cited a number of things travelers can do to make their trips easier and quicker. "One of the first things I go to is my PDA, or telephone, because now we have a brand new service, www.faa.gov/wireless, and you can go on and actually pick up what the story is at your airport before you go," she said on NBC. "Are you running into any ground delays? Is there weather to be aware of? In fact, you can go to your specific airline and see what's the story on the flight. It lets you schedule, you're more in control and it really does give you a way of understanding the situation rather than just getting there and saying, `What's going on.'" The same information is available on the regular FAA Internet site for people not using a wireless device such as a personal digital assistant or cell phone.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/29/2004 11:33:14 PM ||
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A major exercise soon to be underway will have a large part of the Navy fleet deploying out of Norfolk. WAVY News 10 has learned the Navy is sending seven carrier strike groups out to sea. Iâm surprised by the size of this
The exercise is designed to test the Navyâs new rapid deployment readiness. Several Norfolk-based carrier strike groups will participate. The USS George Washington is already deployed. Two others, the USS Enterprise and USS Harry S Truman will leave soon. Other carriers involved in the exercise include the USS John F. Kennedy, the USS John S. Stennis, and the USS Ronald Reagan - which left Norfolk on Thursday. While the Navy wonât say where the seven carrier groups are going, the carriers not already deployed are expected to be gone for only one to two months.
Posted by: Mark O ||
05/29/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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#1
...No, no, no. Two carriers are an exercise. Seven is a campaign.
Or a warning.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
05/29/2004 1:01 Comments ||
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#2
Seven carrier groups is a hell of a lot of firepower. Glad it's just an exercise.
Thats the 4th largest airforce in the world, rolling to who knows where.
Not to mention the cruise missles, etc, on board the cruisers and other ships, the Aegis ships, and the usual 688-boats (and their cruise missles) that are part of each of the groups.
#6
Would like to see all the carriers lining up like the picture of "murderer's row" in Ulithi anchorge in WW2. Seven battle groups, what a sight to see!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/29/2004 2:45 Comments ||
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#7
Maybe the pre-Iran festivities. One could hope.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/29/2004 2:46 Comments ||
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#8
Sounds very interesting, note the video report showed Kitty Hawk leaving port too - isn't that a Japanese based carrier,wonder if they'll be all heading out to run simulated attack runs on the Norks perhaps using ranges and other simulated targets in America to play the Norks, have too see what the airforce is up too as well in the pacific theatre.Something tells me this is a big drill for a big old strike,maybe practicing cluster bombing and attacking fake Nork armoured colums etc.wonder how many sorties and how much ordance 7 fresh carrier groups could deliver over say 2 or 3 days,must be a fair few thousand tonns,couple that to USAF B1's B2's and B-52s zapping stratigic targets and airfeilds and it all adds up to stomping from above.Maybe i'm just being wishfull in my thinking but you never do know... :)
Posted by: Shep UK ||
05/29/2004 4:45 Comments ||
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#9
Thats the 4th largest airforce in the world, rolling to who knows where.
4th largest but the most powerful. I would suspect the carriers are deploying for Rapid-response in case of an attack on Bush during his European trip. The exercise is more a cover than an actual test of our capabilities.
Posted by: Charles ||
05/29/2004 6:12 Comments ||
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#10
Another interpretation is to avoid a terrorist attack on docked ships. Far and away the safest place for a naval vessel is the high seas. As I have pointed out before a large ship travelling at speed has enormous kinetic energy. A hit by 100,000 ton ship traveling at 20 KPH would release more energy (and far more directed energy) than the biggest anti-ship missile the Russians or anyone else makes.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/29/2004 6:23 Comments ||
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#11
Stennis left North Island this week for a four month deployment - not the Persian Gulf, but supposedly some exercises off Alasks, then...? NK sounds about right
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 8:44 Comments ||
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#15
Actually, Navy's been nearly a complete non-player in Iraq since late last spring, and has changed its deployment structure from regularly scheduled deployments to "surge" for contingency and crisis. They got lucky the Iraq war ended soon enough (for them) to let them try it, the Navy was damn near as broke then as the Army is now. Now for the limitations--REAGAN has no air wing, yet, and the Navy just killed one squadron of its reserve air wing, so there isn't even a full up spare anymore. Boats from the east coast can reach the Med, Red Sea, NAG or PG in less than a month, but boats from the left coast need about two months to reach the fun zone. In all likelihood, this is an exercise we're talking about, not an operation.
However, Phil B. hits on something I can't overstress--a moving carrier is nearly invincible, but a parked carrier is a big fat target. We know AQ wants a big, theatrical target, and nothing is as emblematic of America's power to project power abroad than an aircraft carrier. Given that white shipping is closely monitored these days, I would look for either an airborne attack, or sabotage. Either way, underway is the best defense.
#16
the Reagan's to be homeported in SD at North Island, I'll bet the air wing is a rotating one from whichever of the 3 carriers is berthed/being refitted
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 12:35 Comments ||
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#17
Frank, actually, REAGAN's enroute right now, and it's probably not a full up round till it's spent some time getting systems installed on the left coast. All the wings are in constant flux with the Super Hornet and its flawed transition (they bought the planes, but to be cheap they didn't buy the spare parts and yellow gear needed to deploy--I told you the Navy is nearly broke). They'll cobble together something when the time comes. At any rate, there's one less air wing than there are decks, and you don't want to know how many wings and boats can deploy with a full complement of parts, planes and bombs. Hard to believe we're at war.
#18
I saw a clip of it enroute on Fox yesterday. Beautiful! Will the '22 be produced fast enough for the replenishment that you note is needed?
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 13:06 Comments ||
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#19
My understanding is that USN plans to have CBG's deployed on station full time with crews being rotated in and out by air. This would allow several CVs to be taken out of active duty reducing cost without reducing capability. This surge could be more like some sort of logistic drill as opposed to a combat drill. If anyone gets the wrong idea...well, let's hope they take away the right message.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
05/29/2004 13:07 Comments ||
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#20
Frank, the F-22 is the USAF's tarbaby, not the Navy's. The F-18E/F is the stopgap for the Navy, but they're gambling on the JSF down the line, a single engine jet--not a great plan. Tomcats go away in 2006, so the Navy's putting itself into a hurt locker, no pods, no heavies.
The old lingo of CVBG is now CSG, carrier strike group, meant to allow greater flexibility of response. Crews can rotate, but carriers take such a beating underway that the blue/gold concept probably won't be tested.
#21
thanks LL - maybe they need flotation devices on the JSF? I thought the F-22 would have a carrier capability (dunno where I picked that up though...)
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 14:13 Comments ||
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#22
X-45 could also be a future attack platform. Anyway seing as you seem to know alot about the US military lurker can you tell me anything about the lockheed Darkstar,yeah i know they cancelled it years ago but i read a fair few reports during main stage of the Iraq invasion and apparently it or a very similar varient of it was working directly over Baghdad for the whole war and infact months before apparently for up to 36 hours on station at a time too. U-2 pilots are said to have seen it on similar flight tracks as close as a couple of miles in horizontal seperation. Even they didn't know whose or what it was at first which is why i thought perhaps the system was now under Navy control or part Air Force part Navy flying off a carrier,Not sure if the under carrage and design in general could have been adapted but its certainly a posabilaty.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
05/29/2004 14:21 Comments ||
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#23
Shep, you are probably thinking of the Global Hawk UAV, which flies at U2 altitudes.. The DarkStar is an old Stealth UAV tech demonstrator, not large enough for 36 hour endurance.
The F22 would need a major (read expensive) structural redesign to take the stresses of a carrier landing. So not likely to ever happen.
Posted by: ed ||
05/29/2004 14:37 Comments ||
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#24
Didn't realize Norfolk had seven carriers, hope they let Mayport in on this.
#25
No absolutly definatly a darkstar derivative, not the big and very public Global Hawk which is also very nice,no this was defibnatly a Darkstar derivative.i@m gonna go googling for it now. :)
Posted by: Shep UK ||
05/29/2004 16:34 Comments ||
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#26
http://www.friends-partners.org/pipermail/fpspace/2003-July/009009.html its from aviation weekly
Posted by: Shep UK ||
05/29/2004 16:37 Comments ||
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#27
That's possible. The track record has been that when a stealth test program is revealed, a newer platform has already replaced it. Iraq was a target rich environment to test it's capabilities and no opposing air to shoot it down.
Posted by: ed ||
05/29/2004 17:04 Comments ||
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#29
Well, just to answer your question Shep, Darkstar was "officially" cancelled in further funding, Lockheed continued it under a semi-black project and further developed a new avionics and sensor package (its able to hold a whole of systems from synthetic aperature radar to some extremely precise infrared systems) for it. What flew in Iraq (and was actually based outta Qatar it seems) was Darkstar II, the upgraded variant of the stealthy sucker. Also I don't know if you can still find this on the web but theres also a super-sized version of Darkstar proposed called Strikestar which is a UCAV with intercontinental ranges and long loiter times. The requirements and specifications for this latter one seems very close to Darpa's FALCON project.
Malaysia says it arrested a suspected senior figure in a network that traded in nuclear secrets because his presence in Malaysia exposed the country to possible attacks and economic sanctions. Malaysian authorities arrested Buhary Syed Abu Tahir, a Sri Lankan national with Malaysian residency, under the countryâs Internal Security Act, which allows for indefinite detention without trial. Deputy Internal Security Minister Noh Omar said Saturday that Mr. Tahir was detained because he was involved in illegal activities at an international level, as he put it, "by involving himself in an illicit international network of nuclear proliferation."
Malaysia was upset last February, when President Bush, in a speech, mentioned Malaysia and Mr. Tahirâs activities there several times. The Malaysian government questioned Mr. Tahir at that time, but declined to arrest him. Mr. Noh denied Saturday that the arrest was made under pressure from Washington. He said the government felt Mr. Tahirâs continued freedom left the country open to "threats of attacks from big powers and economic sanctions." He did not say which "big powers" he was referring to.
Washington reacted positively. Richard Boucher, the U.S. State Department spokesman, said the United States was "delighted" at the Malaysian action. "Mr. Tahir was one of the most important figures in the AQ Khan network," he said. "He served as chief financial officer and, essentially, ran network operations. We think his arrest is a major step, and it will serve as a catalyst to international efforts to shut down the Khan network."
Mr. Noh said Mr. Tahir had used Malaysia as "an illegal base" to manufacture centrifuge parts for Libyaâs now-abandoned nuclear weapons programs. He also said Mr. Tahir had clandestinely brought technicians from Libya to Malaysia to receive training. The company responsible for making the centrifuge parts is controlled by the son of Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi. At the time Mr. Tahir was first publicly identified, the prime minister said Mr. Tahir had committed no crime in Malaysia, and the government, therefore, refused to arrest him. Mr. Noh, the deputy internal security minister, said there was no pressure from any other country since then to make the arrest. He said Malaysia would consider any request by Washington to interview Mr. Tahir.
An elderly Buddhist man has been found decapitated in troubled southern Thailand and his attackers left a note suggesting the murder was linked to recent unrest, police said. Residents found the head of a murdered rubber worker lying on a road two hours before dawn on Saturday, police Lieutenant Suwit Phusathit, in the province of Narathiwat bordering Malaysia, told Reuters. "His killer or killers left a note saying âIf you still arrest innocent Malays, we will also kill innocent Buddhists,"â the officer said. Nice sort of parity there. Killing a pacifistic person because one of your terror buddies was arrested.
The body of the 67-year-old man was left in a rubber plantation about 60 meters (200 feet) away. Suwit said police were investigating to decide if the gruesome murder stemmed from recent violence in the Muslim south. "It is possible the killer might want to exploit the recent events to hide some personal motive, or he might really want to instigate tension between Muslims and Buddhists," Suwit said. More than 200 people have been killed since January in bloody violence in southern Thailand. Tension in the region started on January 4 when dozens of suspected Muslim militants raided an army camp to steal almost 400 guns. The unrest exploded into major bloodshed on April 28 when police and soldiers stormed an Islamic mosque in the nearby province of Pattani and killed 108 Muslims holding out there. Sadly, I do not see how it will be possible to mobilize the typical Asian Buddhist against terror. While they maintain a respectable "live and let live" stance, this will not protect them from terrorist acts. Itâs pretty disgusting to see such a peaceful religion as Buddhism ostensibly invalidated solely due to its intention of bearing no semblance to the violent fanaticism of Jihadi Moslems. Thailand will need to consider taking exceptionally harsh measures against predators upon their avowedly peaceful population.
#1
The unrest exploded into major bloodshed on April 28 when police and soldiers stormed an Islamic mosque in the nearby province of Pattani and killed 108 Muslims holding out there.
No CNN, you short bus commandos. Most of them where kill trying to storm police and military posts as prelude to Jihad. 30 some of them were killed when they holed up in a mosque, making it a military base.
Posted by: ed ||
05/29/2004 15:51 Comments ||
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#2
I don't know...the Japanese were Buddhist, and they left bloody footprints all over Asia. Yeah, they were Shinto too, but most Buddhists call themselves members of several religions.
Assailants decapitated an elderly Buddhist in Thailandâs Muslim south Saturday and vowed more such killings if Muslims continued to be arrested for the months-long unrest in the region, police said. It was the first decapitation in the violence, which has claimed some 190 lives since January, police said.
Sieng Patkaoe, 63, was attacked by men with machetes early Saturday as he tapped rubber trees on his plantation in the southern province of Narathiwat, district police said. Siengâs severed head was left along a village road. His body, found some 60 metres away, had a note pinned to it threatening more killings, police said. "If innocent Malayu (the predominant ethnic group in the Muslim south) continue to be arrested, we will murder more Buddhists," police quoted the note as saying. It was written in Thai and printed by computer, they said.
The victim had no conflict with neighbours, police said. The killing marks a new level of brutality in the violence, mainly blamed on Muslim separatists, that has plagued southern Thailand this year.
#2
"We are innocent Moooslims, and we'll kill you if you say otherwise"
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 12:44 Comments ||
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#3
Just as with the random infidel killings all over the world, every non-muslim serves as a target for these asswipes. The softest targets are preferred, of course, as the vast majority of jihadis are pure cowards.
#4
my brother has been working Thailand for about three years and I sure am glad he is finally getting out. I have made it a specail point not to say anything to my mother about this
#5
CH - He'd love it up in Chaing Mai. Cooler, mountainous, streets drain when it rains, people are more laid back, no phreakin' "bandits" (read: Islamist Asshats). Melike! :-)
Iranian demonstrators clashed with security forces yesterday as they again tried to storm the British embassy in Tehran. Riot police made several baton charges to push back a crowd of more than 300 protestors trying to push its way towards the main gate of the embassy compound. Several demonstrators were hurt, while the crowd threw stones and firecrackers at the embassy. "Death to the United States" and "Death to England" were among the slogans chanted, as some shouted "we await the order of the Guide (supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei) to attack." It was the sixth such demonstration against the British embassy in 11 days in protest at the actions of the US-led coalition in Iraq, in which Britain is a key component. The demonstrators, mainly young Islamists, are particularly incensed by allegations of the profanation of Shiite Muslim holy sites in Iraq by coalition forces. One cleric said "we are here to say to the English that those who are demonstrating here are Hezbollahi, and if we entered the embassy and cut off all your heads they would not be worth the head of one Muslim."
#1
Sounds like the Iranians want to repeat the hostage-taking incident involving the US Embassy in Tehran in 1979, except this time, with the Brits as the victims. What's to stop them?
Think there's some "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" stuff going on between the "riot police" and the basji thugs "protesting" at the embassy? If so, your suggestion might, indeed, be prescient.
#3
Notice to Brits: When the ragheads come over the wall, shoot first and ask questions later.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
05/29/2004 17:07 Comments ||
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#4
Storming the embassy seems like a bad idea when there is a British armoured brigade next door. They can make southwestern Iran very mullah unfriendly territory. And don't even mention the 150,000 heavily armed Americans with a grudge and desire for payback.
Posted by: ed ||
05/29/2004 17:16 Comments ||
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(Here they go again, pushing all the buttons at once) Suicide, missile attacks are ready âto strike at Anglo-Saxon cultureâ
An official of Iranâs Revolutionary Guards has threatened the United States and other Western nations with suicide and missile attacks aimed at 29 sensitive sites. "Our missiles are now ready to strike at their civilization, and as soon as the instructions arrive from fearless leader [âAli Khamenei], we will launch our missiles at their cities and installations," the Revolutionary Guard adviser said in a speech reported by the London Arabic-language daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, according to Middle East Media Research Institute, or MEMRI. (The longer we delay in removing this global threat, the harder it shall be.)
He also threatened to "take over" Britian. The paper reported "an Iranian intelligence unit has established a center called The Brigades of the Shahids of the Global Islamic Awakening to replace the Iranian Revolutionary Guardsâ Department of Liberation and Revolutionary Movements, which had been in charge of helping and training revolutionary forces across the world." A source close to the Revolutionary Guards intelligence confirmed confirmed the establishment of a new office that has begun registering the names of suicide volunteers to be sent to Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon, the London paper said. In a tape of the speech obtained by the paper, the official spoke of Tehranâs "secret strategy" aimed at taking over the Arab and Muslim countries by means of helping revolutionary forces and organizations."
The official, identified only with the initials H.A., has published a number of works on exporting the Islamic revolution and struggling against the U.S. "In his speech at a secret conference attended by students who are members of the Ansar Hizbullah movement at Al-Hussein University, the official harshly criticized reformist President Muhammad Khatami and his "dubious idea" of dialogue between civilizations. "We do not want to take over the British Embassy, since [the British] have already cleared the embassy of documents; we must take over Britain [itself]," he said.
"The West sees us as terrorists, and depicts our strategy as terrorism and repression," the officials continued. "Had our youth agreed to Khatamiâs teachings and interpretations, it would never have fought the arrogance [U.S.], and would never have defended the holy places â because Khatami speaks always of being conciliatory, of patience, and of rejecting terrorism, while we defend [the line of] toughness and war against the enemies of revolutionary Islam. I take pride in my actions that cause anxiety and fear to the Americans... âHavenât the Jews and the Christians achieved their progress by means of toughness and repression? We have a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization and for the uprooting of the Americans and the English. Our missiles are now ready to strike at their civilization, and as soon as the instructions arrive from leader [âAli Khamenei], we will launch our missiles at their cities and installations. Our motto during the war [in Iraq] was: Karbala, we are coming, Jerusalem, we are coming. And because of Khatamiâs policies and dialogue between the civilizations, we have been compelled to freeze our plan to liberate the Islamic cities. And now we are [again] about to carry out the program."
Later in his speech, the official declared "the global infidel front is a front against Allah and the Muslims, and we must make use of everything we have at hand to strike at this front, by means of our suicide operations or by means of our missiles. There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them." He emphasized, "If Israel dares attack the [nuclear] installations at Bushehr, our losses will be very low, because [only] one structure will be destroyed -- while we have means of attacking Israelâs nuclear facilities and arsenals such that no trace of Israel will remain."
The previous day, according to MEMRI, Iranian sources had statements on the same issue. At a ceremony marking the four-year anniversary of Israelâs withdrawal from southern Lebanon, Ali Akbar Makhatashemi-Pour, reformist MP and secretary-general of the International Committee for the Support of the Palestinian Intifada, called on Muslim countries to open their borders with Iraq to troops of Muslim martyrdom bombers. "We, the Muslim countries, must create a storm front against the U.S. and Israel," he said. "The half-million member organization that was created in Beirut [Hezbollah] is not sufficient. Many young Muslims are willing to carry out martyrdom operations against the American Crusaders."
According to the Iranian reformist paper Sharq, the Persian-language Ruydad website cited Hezbollah-Iran activist Forouz Rajaii-Far saying "martyrdom operations are the only option to expel the Americans and British from Iraq." Rajaii-Far said a Basij activist from Elm Vasonaat University in Iran acknowledged a group calling itself the "To Karbala Battalion" was sent Thursday to Karbala to fight the coalition forces.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/29/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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#1
Why is it this kind of raving never hits the mainline media?
#4
The "To Karbala Battalion", is that an islamic brigade? Sent by allan (via the mulaahhs) to avenge the hole in the "Holy Moskke of the Dragon that was Slayed There".
#5
SteveS, an open threat of war, yes. But since Pres Carter, may he build a house, they don't care. Nobody has a dog in the fight yet. Iran is a funky nut. It may be the place that puts the knife in islam or it may be the place that puts the knife in islams bloody hand.
#6
After reading Howell Raines self-justifying essay in last month's Atlantic, I believe that the reasoning of the press elites goes something like this:
* There is a cycle of violence in the Middle East.
* If I were to publish the anti-American screeds of the Islamists, I would only help perpetuate the cycle of violence by giving (bigots, neo-cons, blue-collar jingoists who read the Post) the ammunition they need to further their own violent agenda.
* Therefore, by not publishing (OBL's declaration of war, an independent translation of Arafat's latest speech, threats from the Mullah's) I am helping break the cycle of violence.
I think that we've established by now that the "cycle of violence" analogy is a pretty crappy one. But these geniuses don't get it. The funny thing is, most of these guys are pretty aggressive in their own careers. I'm sure that they've all left a few bodies along their career paths. Well screw 'em anyway. The whole paradigm of national news outlets molding mass opinion is rapidly reaching the end of its life. I'm not entirely sure what the next paradigm looks like, but I suspect it will be something a lot like Rantburg, with no news report left unchallenged for bias, facts, and sources. Consensus will be formed through debate, not "molded" by biased editors.
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Gunmen opened fire Saturday in separate attacks on compounds in eastern Saudi Arabian city of Khobar, Western diplomats said. Witnesses spoke of at least one attack on a compound where foreigners worked for an oil company.
There were three separate shooting attacks on housing compounds in Khobar, according to a Western diplomat. Two security guards were believed to be dead, he said on condition of anonymity.
Saudi Interior Ministry officials could not be immediately reached for comment.
According to witnesses in Khobar, four gunmen wearing military-style uniforms attacked a compound near a petroleum company. Security cordoned off the area, they said, also speaking on condition of anonymity."
This situation has been going on since 7:am this morning. In one compound these mother fuckers went around looking for westerners to kill. They were hunting westerners! Rumors say that among the westerners killed are children.
3 compounds are under siege as we speak right now.
For the people here : do me a great favor and the first westerner appeaser you see today beat the shit out him!
#9
"Why is it this kind of raving never hits the mainline media?"
I saw it on at least one of the cable new networks last night. Sounds like they're plenty scared - good! That Karbala and Jerusalem thing worked out great for them 20 years ago, huh?
#10
Is anyone else beginning to feel that maybe America should just take possession of those super-holy Shiite shrines in Iraq and hold them as material hostages until Iran completely dismantles its nuclear power weapons program to our satisfaction?
I'm bloody fed up with these morons fanning the Middle East's flames without having a hair turned on their own beturbaned heads. It's time for Iran to pay the piper for all the havoc they continually wreak upon other nations.
#12
It bears repeating, especially since Iran is threatening with ballistic missiles now: we can settle this with OUR missiles from one missile patch in Kansas.
Perhaps we should tell them that. A simple report that our supposedly-untargeted ICBMs are now targeted against "selected military targets and targets of Iranian national command authority" would curdle their blood.
Two can play this game, and our threat is more credible than theirs.
#13
Riverdog - Yeah - describe for them how just one MIRVed shot can be a decap strike for the Mad Mullahs, Thug Guards, Rubber-Stamp Council, and a few of their bases...
Now if Tenet hasn't completely dropped the ball, tipping time could be at hand.
#14
Relax, WND says that US is returning to the client-state (strong-man) policy of the Cold War. Actually, a non-corrupt, pro-West Iraqi leader who is sufficiently secular to toss Wahabis and Khomenis is mass graves is better than the status quo:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38701 THANK ME!
Foreign insurgents suspected of links to al-Qaeda are operating in the flashpoint city of Fallujah, fuelling fears that the terrorist network has established a firm foothold in Iraq. A well-armed group infiltrated the city before fighting erupted in March and is continuing to mount operations against the coalition and Westerners in the area, in defiance of leaders of Fallujahâs mosques, the army and the police force. The group, led by Abu Abdullah, a young Saudi, is linked to a spate of kidnappings of Westerners, particularly journalists. Its members include Wahabbi Muslims. Fallujahâs leaders, who follow different Islamic fundamentalist teachings, fear that the Saudis belong to an al-Qaeda cell seeking a final showdown between Islam and America in the Middle East.
Gosh, Mahmoud! You don't suppose they're using you, do you?
A senior sheikh in Fallujah said the group was "out of control", adding: "We are worried that they are part of al-Qaeda. That means that we will have to force them out and it will be hard. But this is our country we are fighting for, and it is our fight with the Americans. They have their own country and their own ideas which we do not share." Fallujahâs own independent militia, set up under the agreement with the Americans that ended a month-long battle for the city, is threatening to attack the Saudi group because of its persistent involvement in kidnappings and looting. At a recent meeting with Sheikh Dhaffer, Fallujahâs spiritual leader, Col Fahil al Janabi, the police chief, complained that his men were intimidated by the Mujahideen, including Saudis, who stalk the city. The Saudis were at first welcomed among the hundreds of foreign fighters who came to help Iraqis fighting against the coalition. They fought in the southern section of the city, where the marines met the stiffest resistance. In all, about a quarter of those fighting the Americans were foreigners: Syrian, Saudi, Palestinian and Tunisian. They helped the Iraqi Mujahideen - the collection of armed Islamic groups fighting the coalition - become better organised and equipped, aided by funds brought by the Saudi fighters.
Soddies and money... Every time we fill up, we're buying rope, aren't we?
Although some of their arsenal was smuggled into the country, the most effective anti-tank weaponry was American: rockets and missiles which, the fighters claim, was either salvaged from downed helicopters and vehicles or obtained from traders. However, the Mujahideen are now losing patience with the radical Saudi fighters, whom they say are linked with al-Qaeda, because they are almost impossible to control. "They are not from here, they donât share our beliefs and our aims," one Iraqi said. "We do not want them any more." The Mujahideen itself is under the direction of several Islamic fundamentalist parties, including the powerful Hyaat Olama a Muslimin, or Islamic Scientists Association. Talib Saha, a member of its political directive, said the party was now developing its political wing, drawing on the experiences of the IRA. "We like the way the IRA was able to enter in politics and have ministers in charge of government, like Martin McGuinness," he said.
#2
This is one of the more encouraging bits of news to come out of Iraq in a while. If the Iraqis turn on the Al Qaeda terrorists, it's a win-win for us.
Another interesting aspect is the last paragraph of the article:
The Mujahideen itself is under the direction of several Islamic fundamentalist parties, including the powerful Hya'at Olama a Muslimin, or Islamic Scientists Association. Talib Saha, a member of its political directive, said the party was now developing its political wing, drawing on the experiences of the IRA. "We like the way the IRA was able to enter in politics and have ministers in charge of government, like Martin McGuinness," he said.
#4
Missiles have been converted into weapons that are effective against tanks but produce a hot back-blast that burns the hands and faces of the fighters.
Stop ... stop ... you're ripping my heart out.
However, the Mujahideen are now losing patience with the radical Saudi fighters, whom they say are linked with al-Qaeda, because they are almost impossible to control. "They are not from here, they donât share our beliefs and our aims," one Iraqi said. "We do not want them any more."
Can't have it both ways, suckers. Now you've got the tiger by his ears and it's time for your @ss to cash those rubber checks your mouths wrote. Maybe wanting to mix it up with the Marines wasn't such a good idea after all.
#5
I finally saw this link thanks to Jen, and something's bugging me. American helicopter-launched antitank weapons are usually guided by systems built into the helicopter. I'm not sure hellfires, for instance, would be accurate enough without a laser designator system.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
05/30/2004 2:13 Comments ||
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A week of private talks between envoys for President Hamid Karzai and various current and former Islamic militia leaders have raised fears of a power-sharing deal that could undermine internationally backed elections scheduled for September. The negotiations here with members of the Northern Alliance coalition have angered leaders of Karzaiâs Pashtun ethnic group and alarmed foreign diplomats and election observers, who say a deal with religious strongmen will send the wrong signal to a nation preparing to embark on its first democratic vote..."This is like saying that the only ticket to the palace is having weapons behind you," said one European diplomat. "These elections are costing $200 million, and if that canât produce a credible and legitimate process, then all the money will have gone down a black hole. Itâs not only a lost opportunity, itâs a regression to the past."...The Northern Alliance is a coalition of Islamic militias that fought occupying Soviet troops in the 1980s and were later allied with U.S. forces against the Taliban, which was toppled in late 2001. Many Afghans are wary of these groups because they held power during a chaotic and destructive period of civil conflict in the early 1990s. Nevertheless, the United Nations gave several Northern Alliance leaders a prominent role in the temporary post-Taliban government, which they are determined not to lose through elections...Karzai, who was chosen interim president by delegates to a national council in 2002, declared his intention to run for election several months ago. But he has made few public appearances, formed no political party and remains largely confined to his palace under heavy security. Instead of seeking support from voters, he has spent time forging alliances and seeking agreements with groups likely to cause trouble for his candidacy or the elections...Even some Pashtun figures who said they would support Karzaiâs candidacy expressed disappointment in his leadership, saying he has been unwilling to stand up to regional bosses despite enjoying strong international support -- and is now snubbing his tribal constituents while courting perennial adversaries...Some international observers here expressed broader worries, saying the presidentâs deal-making suggests that despite his worldly demeanor and constant invocation of democratic ideals, he is more comfortable with backroom power-brokering and more concerned about winning election than about bolstering the democratic process...
Groan...I hope that Karzai doesnât turn out to be another Third World self-important loser in whom weâve misplaced our trust.
Posted by: rex ||
05/29/2004 6:28:28 PM ||
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Who? Dunno, yet. Nothing on Fox website, yet, but that is link I used.
Reporting 2 people were aboard, now abroad. Will "flesh" it out as facts trickle in... Plz update thread if you see more. Update...
A senior Hamas commander, his assistant and a bystander died in a fiery Israeli air strike in Gaza City early Sunday, hours before Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was to confront his Cabinet over his plan to pull soldiers and settlers out of Gaza. Hamas called the attack a "cowardly assassination crime"
If anyone knows something about cowardly assassinations, it's Hamas...
and said it killed Wael Nassar, 38, a top Hamas commander; his assistant, Mohammed Sarsour, 31; and an unidentified bystander. The two Hamas leaders were on the motorcycle when it exploded, witnesses said. The Israeli military said its air force carried out the strike, aimed at "two senior Hamas commanders who were responsible for many attacks against Israelis, including suicide bombings, and were planning further attacks." Witnesses said they saw a flash in the sky before the motorcycle exploded.
... and one on the ground about the time it did...
Outside the hospital morgue, angry Palestinians, most of them Hamas supporters, chanted "Holy Shit! God is great." Amplified statements from local mosques mourned Nassar, one of the founders of the Hamas military wing, called Izzedine al-Qassam. Nassar planned many Hamas attacks against Israelis, Palestinians said. Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zohri accused Israel of a "cowardly assassination crime," part of Israel's "bloody escalation" against the Palestinians.
#1
Duh, IDF Helizapper in Gaza. Sorry for failing to mention that tidbit. Sheesh - stayed up all night on Khobar thing - and it's showing. Time to shower and sleep, methinks.
#2
Fox now sez 3 are dead, including the 2 on the cycle. More to follow. Somebody who's watching Fox should pick this up and watch their website / Google News / whatever to keep fresh.
Israeli helicopter missile kills top Hamas Gaza military commander Awal Nasser and second senior Hamas operative. They were struck Saturday night riding a motorbike in Gaza Cityâs Zeitun suburb
#9
Poor guys. Haven't met their victim deductible, so no virgins.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
05/29/2004 19:10 Comments ||
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#10
What kind of motorcycle?
Motorcycle of Doomâ¢
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 19:22 Comments ||
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#11
Damn. What a waste of a perfectly good motorcycle.
Posted by: Charles ||
05/29/2004 19:27 Comments ||
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#12
Report at lgf indicates missile fired from UAV.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/29/2004 19:30 Comments ||
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#13
... dude.
(That's my reaction to hearing that a UAV missile could hit a target with so small a "radar" profile.)
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
05/29/2004 19:39 Comments ||
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#14
Second deader ID'd at LGF:
Hamas charged that Israel was responsible for what it called a âdirty assassination crimeâ killing Wael Nassar, 38, a top Hamas commander, and his assistant, Mohammed Sarsour, 31, his assistant, and a bystander. The two Hamas leaders were on the motorcycle when it exploded, witnesses said
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 19:49 Comments ||
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#15
Edward, it probably used infrared imaging.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/29/2004 20:09 Comments ||
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#16
probably remote guidance....heh heh... would like to watch them try and outrun it. I hope they knew what was coming. Allan Akhbar
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 20:12 Comments ||
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#17
...or maybe Big Al Akhbar
Posted by: dorf ||
05/29/2004 21:34 Comments ||
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#18
If the IDF keep this up Hamas may ask for a ceasefire.
GAZA (Reuters) - An Israeli helicopter fired two missiles into Gaza City early on Sunday, killing three Hamas militants and wounding seven civilian bystanders, Palestinian witnesses said. Hamas sources named one of the dead men as Wael Nassar, a high-profile leader of Hamas's Izz al-Deen al-Qassam military wing who had been on Israel's most-wanted list for years.
They said Nassar was the architect of a May 11 ambush in which six Israeli soldiers were blown up when their troop carrier rolled over a mine during a raid into Zeitoun. They said the three were standing by a motorcycle in a street in Gaza City's crowded Zeitoun district, a stronghold of Islamist militants periodically targeted by Israeli forces. Palestinian medics said three of the seven civilian wounded were in critical condition. A woman and two children were among the casualties, they said.
#20
3 more death cultists will never harm anyone again.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/29/2004 22:25 Comments ||
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#21
You mean they actually killed the Terrorists without civilian deaths?
A woman and two children were among the casualties, they said.
Look for them to die in their hospital beds from Zionist pillows.
Posted by: Charles ||
05/29/2004 23:26 Comments ||
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#22
Phil -- if so, then I'm not surprised ... I was at Fleet Week 2004 on Friday, and I can personally testify that aboard the USS Iwo Jima, the Humvee-mounted TOW missile launcher's thermal scope had sharper imaging than 20/20 and my own glasses O_O
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
05/29/2004 23:50 Comments ||
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#23
The first time I saw infrared imaging I was amazed at how clearly people show, even in the middle of the day in the hot tropics.
Posted by: Stephen ||
05/30/2004 0:14 Comments ||
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#25
They managed a wheelchair swarm, so I'd credit them with the ability to adapt to any sort of roadkill martyr thingy. Too bad this seems to be one of their few demonstrable "talents."
The three suspected al Qaeda operatives arrested in Johannesburg and Cape Town days before the South African general elections are believed to be members of several of the organisationâs cells in the country. The three men were allegedly planning to target US companies such as McDonalds and others operating here. It is believed the men would have used chemical weapons and explosives similar to those planned to blow up the American Embassy in Jordan, as well as the Jordanian intelligence office headquarters.
Information obtained on Friday night revealed that the Jordanian men, two of whom have been deported back to their own country, were part of a cell that entered South Africa late last year. The cells are believed to be made up of at least four to six people and can operate independently of other cells. There could be a number of al Qaeda cells in the country and all are thought to have begun setting up operations in 2002 and 2003.
The men, whom police have refused to identify, entered South Africa at different times and from different countries. The first man is believed to have flown in via London six months before his arrest. The others are thought to have arrived at least eight months before their capture. A senior police official, whose name is known to this newspaper, said the men had all entered the country on valid South African documentation. "Our attention was attracted by their activities in South Africa," said the officer, who added that the activities resembled those associated with terrorist organisations operating throughout the world.
All three men are on the national watch lists of several countries, including the US, Britain, Jordan, Spain, as well as Interpolâs. The police officer said there was no doubt over the people arrested "and we know that we have not made a mistake in these arrests". The officer confirmed that the men had been picked up and that two had been deported to Jordan shortly after the elections because of the devastating effects their actions would have had on South Africa. The third man, who is being detained in a police station, is believed to have refused to be deported back to Jordan.
"If the men had been allowed to carry out their actions they would have maimed and killed hundreds of innocent South Africans and this is why we acted the way we did and deported them," said the officer. He said intelligence investigations were under way, but declined to state the nature of the operations for fear of jeopardising them. It has been learnt however that, among other things, the investigation is looking into a possible syndicate which has operatives in the department of home affairs, which has been supplying the terror organisation with South African identity documents. National police Director Sally de Beer declined to comment on the matter.
From The New York Times
Interrogation experts from the American detention camp at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, were sent to Iraq last fall and played a major role in training American military intelligence teams at Abu Ghraib prison there, senior military officials said Friday. The teams from Guantánamo Bay, which had operated there under directives allowing broad latitude in questioning "enemy combatants," played a central role at Abu Ghraib through December, the officials said, a time when the worst abuses of prisoners were taking place. Prisoners captured in Iraq, unlike those sent from Afghanistan to Guantánamo, were to be protected by the Geneva Conventions.
The teams were sent to Iraq for 90-day tours at the urging of Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, then the head of detention operations at Guantánamo. General Miller was sent to Iraq last summer to recommend improvements in the intelligence gathering and detention operations there, a defense official said. The involvement of the Guantánamo teams has not previously been disclosed, and military officials said it would be addressed in a major report on suspected abuses by military intelligence specialists that is being completed by Maj. Gen. George W. Fay. ....
The involvement of the Guantánamo teams in Iraq marks the second major instance in which interrogation procedures at Abu Ghraib appear to have been modeled on those in place earlier in Guantánamo or in Afghanistan, at facilities where the United States had declared that the Geneva Conventions did not apply. ....
Confirming an account from military intelligence soldiers who served in Iraq, a senior military official in Iraq said Friday that five interrogation teams, or about 15 interrogators, analysts and other specialists, were sent in October from Guantánamo Bay to the American command in Iraq "for use in the interrogation effort" at Abu Ghraib. A defense official in Washington said that only three teams had been sent, but there was no immediate explanation for the discrepancy.
General Miller, who is now in command of all detention sites in Iraq, played a central role in recommending an overhaul of interrogation procedures at Abu Ghraib, including changes to bring about closer coordination between guards and interrogators. But the generalâs report on that issue remains classified, and it is not clear whether either his report or the Guantánamo teams explicitly recommended a toughening of interrogation procedures at Abu Ghraib. ....
According to a military officer on the Miller delegation to Iraq, interrogation teams from Guantánamo took part in interrogations at Abu Ghraib and other prisons in Iraq. The interrogators demonstrated the "tiger team" concept that was developed at Guantánamo, integrating interrogators with an intelligence analyst and an interpreter to focus on particular groups of detainees and pieces of information being sought. ....
The 519th Military Intelligence Battalion, from Fort Bragg, N.C., also played a major role in setting up the new interrogation unit at Abu Ghraib last fall. In its ranks was Capt. Carolyn A. Wood, who had led an interrogation team at the Bagram Collection Point in Afghanistan. Two Afghan prisoners died in Bagram in December 2002 in what investigators have ruled were homicides, during the time Captain Woodâs unit was in charge of interrogations. An Ohio-based Army Reserve unit, the 377th Military Police Company, was guarding Bagram at the time, and Army investigators are now pursuing what they have said are indications that enlisted soldiers from one or both units abused the Afghan prisoners before they died. ....
But one member of the 377th Company said the fact that prisoners in Afghanistan had been labeled as "enemy combatants" not subject to the Geneva Conventions had contributed to an unhealthy attitude in the detention center. "We were pretty much told that they were nobodies, that they were just enemy combatants," he said. "I think that giving them the distinction of soldier would have changed our attitudes toward them. A lot of it was based on racism, really. We called them hajis, and that psychology was really important." ....
In interviews, two military intelligence soldiers who served at Abu Ghraib as part of the 205th Brigade described the unit from Guantánamo as having played a notable role in setting up the interrogation unit in Iraq, which they said was modeled closely after the one that General Miller put in place in Cuba. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/29/2004 1:35:49 PM ||
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Afghan police have arrested a man suspected of trying to recruit students to carry out suicide attacks on international peacekeepers in Kabul, a spokesman for the multinational force said on Saturday. Commander Chris Henderson, spokesman for the 6,400-strong NATO-led International Security Assistance Force, said he knew of no connection between the suspectâs activities at the university and two deadly suicide attacks on ISAF forces earlier this year. "He was discovered at the (Kabul) university apparently encouraging students to conduct suicide attacks against ISAF," Henderson told a news briefing in Kabul, adding that the Taliban sympathizer was arrested on Thursday afternoon. "There was no suspected threat against anyone other than ISAF, yet it was the police that discovered this person and the police had acted independently and they did so very, very quickly." Khalil Aminzada, deputy for Kabul police chief General Baba Jan, confirmed the arrest, adding: "We are investigating this, but we do not yet have anything concrete against him."
#1
sounds like he needs to practice what he preaches...sniper practice, give him a 200 yd head start
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 13:19 Comments ||
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#2
How stupid is this Talib? He tries to recruit university students who know that if the Taliban returned to power, the university will be shut down. Maybe one needs more than a second grade or madrassa education to figure this out.
Posted by: ed ||
05/29/2004 15:21 Comments ||
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WASHINGTON - Pat Tillman, the former Arizona Cardinals football player who died in April while a U.S. soldier fighting in Afghanistan, likely was killed by friendly fire, an Army investigation has concluded.
News of that finding was disseminated Friday to some members of Congress and some Tillman family members just as the Memorial Day weekend was to begin, including todayâs dedication ceremonies in Washington of the World War II Memorial. "It does seem pretty clear that he was killed by friendly fire," said Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz., a member of the House Armed Services Committee, which was alerted to the information by the Armyâs Legislative Liaison Office. "This does not take away one iota from the heroic nature and courage of the man. The source of that fire is of little consequence in terms of heroism," Franks said. He said that after learning of the Armyâs conclusions, he made some follow-up inquiries and was satisfied the information was accurate.
Friendly-fire accidents are an inevitable part of warfare, according to an expert, who agreed that it should not diminish acts of heroism. "Itâs tragic, and we probably feel worse about it," said Stephen Walt, a professor of International Affairs at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. "But warfare is a inherently unpredictable activity. Friendly-fire accidents are a part of modern warfare and probably existed as far back as the Stone Age."
The Army reported last month that Tillman, 27, was killed April 22 while leading his team of Army Rangers up a remote southeastern Afghanistan hill to knock out enemy fire that had pinned down other U.S. soldiers. As Tillman and other soldiers neared the hillâs crest, the Army reported, Tillman directed his team into firing positions and was shot and killed as he sprayed enemy positions with fire from his automatic weapon. The Army did not specify who fired the shot or shots that killed Tillman.
For his actions, the Army posthumously awarded Tillman the Silver Star, its third-highest award for combat valor, saying Tillman led his Ranger team that day "without regard for his own safety" and was shot and killed heroically trying to save his comrades. The Army said his actions helped the trapped soldiers maneuver to safety "without taking a single casualty."
Officials at the Pentagon and at Central Command headquarters in Tampa, late Friday declined to provide more details of the investigationâs findings. But an e-mail circulated within the House Armed Services Committee from committee staff members said: "Army just called to give us a heads up. They have every reason to believe the 15-6 investigation shows Pat Tillman was killed as a result of friendly fire." That same message continues, "The Army has notified his family, so it may come out in the media this weekend."
Army Regulation 15-6 is used as the basis for many investigations requiring a detailed gathering and analyzing of facts, from "fratricide accidents," or friendly-fire incidents, to other matters, including civilian shootings or injuries, accidental weapons discharges or allegations of misconduct. This is just awful.That poor family has suffered too much already.
I hope he is left in peace and the LLL doesnât start caterwauling over this, although thatâs probably too much to ask for.
Posted by: JerseyMike ||
05/29/2004 7:14:26 AM ||
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#4
Well, not a guard post. He had ridden ahead of the line of battle at night and on the way back his party was fired upon by a good portion of a regiment. Mistaken for Union Cavalry.
Posted by: Chris Smith ||
05/29/2004 19:26 Comments ||
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#5
Oh great. The new Rall comic practically writes itself.
I can't wait to not read it.
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
05/29/2004 22:10 Comments ||
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Saturday, May 29, 2004 Posted: 4:26 AM EDT (0826 GMT)
MOSCOW, Russia (Reuters) -- A bomb blast derailed a passenger train in a Russian region bordering Chechnya on Saturday, but no one was seriously injured, a railways spokesman said. The device exploded on the tracks, derailing seven of the 18 carriages. More than 350 people were evacuated from the train in the North Ossetia region, which neighbors Chechnya. "We consider this a terrorist act," spokesman Konstantin Pashkov said, adding the train was traveling between Moscow and Vladikavkaz. "Investigators are working on the site. There were no casualties. "Security concerns are high in the region after a bomb blast three weeks ago killed Chechen President Akhmad Kadyrov. It was not clear who had planted Saturdayâs bomb. I think we can safely assume that it wasnât the tooth fairy.
Trains have been targeted in the past by Chechen rebels. In December an explosion tore through a morning commuter train in southern Russia, killing 46 people and injuring more than 160.
The sister of Nick Berg, the contractor from the Philadelphia suburbs who was beheaded earlier this month in Iraq, says sheâs dumbfounded by reports that liberal icon Michael Moore had filmed an interview with her late brother for his new anti-war film. "Iâm very skeptical of this," said Sara Berg, a Virginia attorney whose brotherâs beheading sparked a global uproar.
But she said there was no way to confirm that Moore had sent a tape of the reported 20-minute interview to their parentsâ home in West Chester, as the filmmaker suggested in a statement Thursday, because the couple has been away. Mooreâs acknowledgment that he had interview footage of Berg that had been shot - but not used - for his highly controversial "Fahrenheit 9/11" documentary may be the strangest twist yet in the increasingly weird saga of Berg and his Iraqi travels, which led to his slaying.
So, how would a completely unknown young wannabe contractor like Berg come to the attention of Moore, whose anti-President Bush screed "Dude, Whereâs My Country?" was the best-selling book in the nation at the time? Stranger than that: Why would Moore or his crew interview Berg for "Fahrenheit 9/11" for 20 minutes, when Bergâs family insists the slain contractor was pro-Bush and supported the American military action in Iraq? It seems I am not the only person who thinks there are just too many weird âcoincidencesâ.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/29/2004 9:33:10 AM ||
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#2
Care to name these "experts" at Kodak? The "controlled media," of course, are hiding this, so anonymous speculation by conspiracy loons is a credible alternative.
Want speculation? Here's some that matches the proven facts: Nick Berg: Michael Moore's secret cameraman?
This refers to Moore's claim that he had two "secret" cameramen in Iraq gathering dirt on the coalition, a claim he hasn't repeated since the Berg murder became public.
Consider: Berg had peripheral connections both to the 9-11 terrorists through Moussaoui, and to the peace movement through his, Berg's, father. He definitely knew Moore, who has uncharacteristically refused to release any portion of the 20 minute interview he conducted with Berg last December. Why was this interview done? At the time, Berg was a completely unknown radio tech and had not yet travelled to Iraq. Berg had the necessary skills, more or less, for the job, as well as a history of flaky adventure-seeking. There is no supporting documentation for his claim of seeking tech business in Iraq: no registration, no contracts, no significant contact with relevant companies and individuals from the Iraqi telecom or broadcasting industries.
Berg refused safe conduct out of the country from the US military. Why? His movements and whereabouts for the last several weeks of his life are unknown.
Berg's father is a big-league peacenik. He is behaving exactly like an enraged man who knows something about the cause of his rage that he cannot reveal. Could it be that telling everything he knows would destroy the cause to which Mr. Berg has devoted his life and sacrificed his son?
#5
Lefty conformists have concocted this lame "CIA did it" conspiracy theory to obscure their own complicity. One significant fact that is lost in all this: we have only Michael Berg's word for it that his son was "pro-war" and "pro-Bush." Another smokescreen.
WR, why did Moore interview Berg, of all people?
A job interview, perhaps?
Moore's gloating and boastful column about his secret operatives appeared on April 14, 4 days after Berg disappeared. In it, Moore gleefuly boasted that his agents were about to make spectacular and damning revelations about the occupation. Nothing more has been heard about this.
#6
Sorry, WR, wrote my response before your second message.
At the very least, Moore has an obligation to explain his interview with Berg.
This is beyond dispute: a young adventurer Moore knew disappeared in Iraq at roughly the same time Moore announced his "secret agent" project there, and that young adventurer later turned up dead.
#7
I don't remember him talking about a secret project. But then again, I don't pay MM much mind. If what you suggested is true then it was a rather damning expose.
#10
No offense, but this digital watermarking reeks of craptastic rumormongering. Sure a physical recording device, whether a typewriter or a video tape recorder, can leave unique marks which forensic specialists can use to tell whether a particular machine did the work.
However, cd burners and video cameras, afaik, do NOT encode digital watermarks in their recordings. Once an image has been digitized, all copies are identical. We are talking files now, not physical media. There are techniques to apply a digital watermark to an image, but this is done after the signal is encoded.
The fact that you have spammed this same comment into another thread only adds to my disbelief. I do like the vague reference to experts at Kodak though. Nice touch. Of course, those folks tend to know more about film than digital products
#12
AC, thanks for the link. MMoore, what a pile of shit. Pretty strange thing this Berg case. I hope some truth might come out of a Moore production for once.
#13
If this pans out, Moore will not only resemble Teddy Kennedy physically, he will have his own version of Chappaquiddick: causing the death of a naive young follower through gross negligence, then attempting to cover it up.
#14
Atomic Conspiracy, I think your suspicion is probably correct. It adds a new twist to this mystery.
If Berg was interviewing US soldiers and trying to collect critical comments, at least one of those soldiers surely reported him to higher authorities, and I would suppose he was placed under surveillance.
One previous article that I myself posted indicated that Berg had been climbing up onto a communication tower near Abu Ghraib at night. I think now that perhaps he was filming the prison, and I suspect that activity was observed by US counter-intelligence personnel.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/29/2004 14:12 Comments ||
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#15
One previous article that I myself posted indicated that Berg had been climbing up onto a communication tower near Abu Ghraib at night.
Uh, he worked on telecomm equipment. That might possibly have been his job.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
05/29/2004 17:13 Comments ||
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#16
Sorry, Robert, It's not very likely he was climbing on that tower at night just to work on it. It's dark and not very easy to see what one is doing. Besides, it's a good cover.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
05/29/2004 21:15 Comments ||
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#17
RC, its not clear he had a job. He was 'freelancing' which could mean anything.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/29/2004 21:27 Comments ||
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#18
Berg was released from US custody in Iraq on April 6 and then lived in a Baghdad Hotel, checking out on April 10. On that same day he talked with a US consular official who offered him a free airplane trip out of the country. Berg declined the offer, with the wierd excuse that the drive to the airport was too dangerous.
Four days later, on April 14, Michael Moore posted his claim that "I currently have two cameramen/reporters doing work for me in Iraq for my movie (unbeknownst to the Army)."
On April 20, rebels fired mortars into Abu Ghraib Prison, killing 22 prisoners. The purpose was probably to assist a planned uprising inside the prison.
Apparently at some time after that, the kidnappers offered to exchange Berg for prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
Berg's body was found on May 8.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/30/2004 5:58 Comments ||
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#19
Could the CIA have killed Nicholas Berg?
I have picked it up on one of Spain´s more popular web sites. It has also appeared in www.prisonplanet.com. Does anyone have any info on what is happening. I have talked to experts and they all agree that technologically, it is just as it is described in the article.
Sources at Kodak have suggested that the digital watermarks on the Berg and Abu Ghraib videos are exactly the same. While at this point we have no concrete confirmation of this, it would fit with other examples of how the Berg execution and Abu Ghraib torture scenes are very similar. The contention is that Berg was killed by the US military as a staged psy-op to distract attention from the torture scandal, an execution blamed on 'CIArabs'.
Word is spreading around Kodak Park in Rochester NY that Kodak film experts have analyzed the Nick Berg video and some of the Abu Grhaib Prison videos comparing them for certain encrypted recording signatures.
Each video camera leaves a certain signature mark, much like a fingerprint or striation markings on bullets in gun barrels. Same goes for CD-ROM Burners, they leave a trace or type of Cookies on the finished product.
These are tested by computer and not visible by the naked eye. Experts here after lunch have concluded that one of the 2 video cameras used in the Nick Berg "beheading" was also used to film US troop abuses of Iraqi detainees.
Pakistan successfully test fired a medium-range nuclear-capable missile on Saturday, a week after a new prime minister took office in nuclear-armed rival and neighbor India. Senior officials indicated the test of the new version of the Ghauri V missile - a day after the fifth anniversary of the country's first nuclear test - was part of routine testing to improve its missiles and would not have a negative impact on the peace process with India. The new Ghauri V, which has a maximum range of 932 miles and can strike most major population centers in northern India as long as you aren't too picky as to which one, was test-fired from an undisclosed site and hit its target area, said army spokesman Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan. Sultan said Pakistan had informed its neighbors beforehand, including India. Pakistani Prime Minister Zafarullah Khan Jamali and senior military and government officials were present when the missile was test fired, Sultan said.
The rumor that Qazi was there too, inside the missile, unfortunately turned out to be unfounded.
The test comes days after Jamali visited Pakistan's nuclear weapons facility, where he was told that scientists have completed work to test fire Pakistan's longest-range missile, called the Ghauri III, which will have a range of 2,175 miles plus or minus 2,175 miles. A test is expected next month.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/29/2004 12:12:58 AM ||
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#1
The second phase of Operation Death Wish was successful. On to the third. Roentgen Soupbowl, here we come.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/29/2004 2:39 Comments ||
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#3
Hey Dog,
Either give that $1B in aid to Pakiwakiland, or use it to clean up a Chernobyl-like mess on Pennsylvania Avenue or any other avenue in the country. Your choice. What would you do?
Posted by: Rafael ||
05/29/2004 3:29 Comments ||
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#4
Hmmmmm how about that, Sonia?
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 8:39 Comments ||
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#5
When India gets sufficiently fed up to finally glass over and Windex Pakistan, I can safely say that it shall not keep me awake during the long winter nights.
The main conspirator of the terrorist attack on Akshardham temple in Gandhinagar, Abu Hamza, was arrested in a pre-dawn raid by the Scotland Yard in London on Thursday. The radical Muslim cleric â Abu Hamza al-Masri â was nabbed on charges of aiding terrorists by plotting to set up an al-Qaeda training camp in the US and also for supporting a hostage-situation that had taken place in Yemen in 1998. Hamza is named as an absconder in the Akshardham attack case. Sources said the Crime Branch has also unearthed his link in the serial bomb blast case that took place aboard AMTS buses on May 29, 2002. This development in Britain has got the Ahmedabad city police, especially the Crime Branch, sit up and take notice. Sources told TNN that efforts are afoot to seek help from London police in the matter.
The attack on Akshardham had taken place on September 24, 2002, when two gunmen entered the sprawling temple compound and opened fire from automatic weapons â AK 47s and hand grenades â on devotees. A total of 34 persons, including three security personnel and two NSG commandos, had been killed in this attack before the terrorists were shot by NSG commandos. Investigations carried out by the Anti-Terrorist Squad had revealed that the two suicide attackers were Pakistani nationals belonging to the terrorist outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba. A year later on August 29, 2003, the Gujarat DGP handed over investigations of this case to the Crime Branch after it arrested five persons from Ahmedabad for allegedly helping the two terrorists in selecting the target, conducting recce and carrying out the attack. The investigating agency in its chargesheet in the case named Abu Hamza of Riyadh as one of the main conspirators. The Crime Branch had alleged that the plot to attack Akshardham was hatched to avenge the communal riots in Gujarat. The chargesheet said that the plot was hatched in Saudi Arabia and that the terrorist attack in Gujarat had been planned by Abu Hamza and Abu Sifiyan of Riyadh along with Abu Talah, a resident of Jeddah. I guess it couldnât be a different Abu Hamza, one who lives in Saudi Arabia?
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
05/29/2004 1:07:31 AM ||
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#1
wow interesting,Hamzas got his hook deeply in the terror pie.Is it me or are the Australians and French seeking him too or is that my imagination?
Posted by: Shep UK ||
05/29/2004 4:48 Comments ||
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#2
Hookboy's been sitting in the UK causing grief for years. If any of these slooooow twinkies want a piece now they can take a number and get in line.
#3
Looks like this sick little puppy is popping up on everybody's Christmas list. After he is tried and convicted in all these different nations' courts, I have only two words to say:
#4
And I'd give him to the Indians, too. I'd make sure he knows it -- "son, y'all are goin' to spend yore last days 'mongst the Hin-doooos." Just might loosen the tongue.
And if not, the Indians will loosen it for us.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/29/2004 12:33 Comments ||
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#5
I heard they tie people to giant ant hives in India and let them get eaten alive,is this true?
Posted by: Shep UK ||
05/29/2004 14:24 Comments ||
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#6
sounds Apache lol
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 14:39 Comments ||
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#7
Frank G - Indeed! As a Comanche, all I can say is those damned Indians & injuns are really, um, mean! Lol!
On Tuesday, 17 journalists in the far northern district of Dinajpur received death threats from Jagrata Muslim Janata Bangladesh (JMJB), a youth front of the Al-Qaeda-funded Harqat-ul-Jihad, OneWorld reports. The JMJB killed over 10 leftists, locally known as âSarbaharasâ, with the help of police and apparently harassed scores of villagers before press reports about its activities compelled the group to lie low. Bangladesh seems to be following the Pakistani model of state-spronsored Jihad, which is bound to turn out well.
Mr Asadullah Sarkar, the Dinajpur correspondent of leading daily Prothom Alo, recalled: âThey told us we were spared in February but nothing would save us now. They termed us as evil and said we should put down our pens or our wives would become widows.â To emphasise their point, members of JMJB armed with bamboo poles and hockey sticks staged a showdown, reportedly under police escort, in the northern city of Rajshahi, reiterating the death threats. On the day of the protests, the leader of the JMJB mob, Lutfar Rahman, thundered: âWe have pledged to eliminate outlaws. We will stay as long as the outlaws are here. But reporters are falsely accusing us of killing, torture and oppression. They do not know that their pen might stop some day.â "Because we will kill, torture and oppress them.."
Instead of condemning the threats, the superintendent of police in Rajshahi, Mr Masud Mia, told the JMJB: âWe (police) hail you for your help in eliminating the sarbaharas. We must cooperate with you in future so people can live without fear.â The lack of police and administration support for journalists has been emphasised in a Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) report, which says confrontational politics, corruption and the apathy of courts towards journalistsâ cases increases the risks facing reporters. The countryâs highly polarised political climate complicates the situation, causing divisions between journalists as well, feels CPJ. Journalist, Mr Saleem Samad, who accuses the ruling BNP-Jamaat alliance government of harassment, said: âThe pro-secular and independent press is facing the wrath of the pro-right and pro-Islamist coalition government. Repressive measures are spontaneous when journalists expose bad governance.â The government on its part accuses the media of not fulfilling its duties. The Prime Minister, Ms Khaleda Zia told a recent state-level meeting: âMany newspapers are not playing the right and responsible role.â The Law Minister, Mr Moudud Ahmed claimed: âThe media in Bangladesh is absolutely free, but journalists sometimes abuse it.â
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
05/29/2004 1:03:07 AM ||
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KARACHI: Five policemen were arrested for negligence after footage from surveillance cameras showed they failed to stop and question people believed to have planted two car bombs that exploded near the US Consulâs residence in Karachi, an investigator said Friday. The bombs, which exploded some minutes apart outside the Pak-American Cultural Center (a few meters from the American Consulâs house) on Wednesday killed one policeman and wounded 40, mostly policemen and journalists. Police suspect the outlawed Islamic militant group, Harkat-ul-Mujahedeen al-Almi, who were blamed for an attack on the US Consulate in June 2002 in which 14 people died, could have masterminded the bombings.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/29/2004 12:12:05 AM ||
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Israel may be shutting down smugglers' tunnels between Egypt and the Gaza Strip, but Palestinian militants still have options for getting weapons into the occupied territories, including the sea. "As long as it will be hard for them to do it via the tunnels, it might be that they will go back and do it via the [sea]," said Israeli Rear Adm. David Laurie, head of naval operations. Laurie has reason to be concerned. In the last few years Israel has intercepted a number of ships carrying arms, including the Karine A, which was carrying 80 tons of weapons âenough to alter the balance of military power in the occupied territories. Because of this threat, Israeli patrol boats keep constant vigil on the Mediterranean.
But Palestinian fishermen are caught in the middle. "We are scared of the Israeli Navy Patrol boats. If we get 10 kilometers away, we get worried that they might open fire on us," said Muhammed Abu Hassira. The fishermen are restricted to a five-by-eight mile section of water that keeps them away from Egypt, Israel and Jewish settlements on the coastline of the Gaza Strip. Abu Hassira said the income for his crew has dwindled to about $15 a week. The fishermen are trapped between their economic needs and Israel's security needs.
Wonder if they can hear the tune I'm playing on my new femtoviolin?
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/29/2004 12:07:09 AM ||
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#1
Please stop, Steve. Your ripping my heart out...
#4
and the IDF keeps honest Paleo miners from finding gold - they keep shutting down their extensive digging projects. Oh! The humanity....
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/29/2004 8:56 Comments ||
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#5
Those fisherman are lucky they get to fish at all! Who knows what they're up to?
Let them fish off the coasts of their own countries.
Posted by: Deb ||
05/29/2004 9:07 Comments ||
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#6
" Who knows what they're up to?"
I saw a short bit on cable news ( fox? ) about this. The piece consisted of interviews with Paleo fishermen talking about how their life sucked intercut with clips of small boats, in one case a life boat, blowing up in the vicinity of Israeli patrol boats. A life boat! Gosh, do you suppose there is some link between fishing restrictions and exploding boats?
#9
The fishermen are trapped between their economic needs and Israel's security needs.
Hold on a minute! This is pure-dee banana oil. Always make to sure to follow the money.
"Israel's security needs" have nothing to do with this. Those fishermen are trapped between "their economic needs" and one (and only one) particular @sshole's ethical and moral bankruptcy, namely, Yasser Arafat's.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/29/2004 13:10 Comments ||
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#11
The obvious solution is for the UN to redeploy the "combat-experienced" Uraguayans and their speedboats from Africa to the coast of the Gaza Strip.
One Afghan and a Pakistani were taken into custody while six others were set free when anti-terrorism force commandos raided an office of banned militant organisation Al-Badar Mujahideen in Peshawar on late Thursday night. âThe raid was in connection with the assassination attempts on President Musharraf,â he added. During the raid, a top leader of the organisation, Hafiz Gohar Rehman, was detained but he was later freed.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/29/2004 12:05:46 AM ||
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Suppliers for Libya's nuclear weapons program stretched over three continents, the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency said in an internal report Friday. Diplomats identified the former Soviet Union and South Africa as among them. Traces of highly enriched uranium were found at some Libyan sites, according to the report by the International Atomic Energy Agency made available to The Associated Press. But it suggested the uranium entered the country on equipment purchased abroad. The report did not name the countries involved in supplying Libya. However, diplomats close to the agency said that the report indicated the former Soviet Union, South Africa, Pakistan, the United Arab Emirates and Malaysia supported or served as bases for individuals selling nuclear components or know-how to Libya. Other diplomats had earlier named North Korea, as well as individuals from Pakistan, UAE member Dubai and Malaysia as part of the black market chain selling nuclear secrets to rogue nations. One of the diplomats said Moscow had not been previously linked to Libyan efforts to acquire a weapons program.
The report said Libya had been cooperative since going public about its weapons programs in December and pledging to scrap them. But it said more inspections were needed of its efforts to enrich uranium — one way to make nuclear weapons. Its program included purchases of hundreds of centrifuges and orders for 10,000 more. In their efforts, the Libyans bought drawings of a nuclear warhead that diplomats identified as likely originating in China but sold by Pakistan. The illicit nuclear network headed by Pakistan's Abdul Qadeer Khan remains the focal point of investigations by the Vienna-based IAEA as it tries to trace the development of shipments to Libya, Iran, North Korea and possibly other nations trying to acquire illegal nuclear technology. North Korea was drawn deeper into the suppliers' web last week by diplomats who said it appeared to be the source of nearly two tons of a uranium compound that Libya handed over to Americans in January as part of its decision to get rid of weapons of mass destruction. The diplomats said the "foreign counterparts ... from a nuclear weapon state" mentioned by the report as working with Libyan scientists between 1983 and 1986 referred to Soviet experts. The Soviets were also the partners in a preliminary contract signed for a uranium conversion plant that the report noted was apparently never delivered, said the diplomat.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/29/2004 11:44:02 PM ||
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Federally Administered Tribal Areas security chief Brig (r) Mehmood Shah has acknowledged that the controversial Shakai deal between the government and Nek Muhammad, former Taliban commander who fought pitched battles with the Army in March and was pardoned on April 24 after he surrendered to the authorities, does not exist any more. In an interview with Daily Times early this week, Brig (r) Shah described the deal as âunambiguousâ and blamed foreign militants for its âshort life.â Asked if the Shakai deal was valid after the lashkar was formed to press foreigners to register, he said: âIt does appear ânoâ. These people have misread the governmentâs resolve to the rid the area of foreigners.â
Or they've read it correctly. It'll take a fairly high corpse count to get them out. And all the time operations are going on the MMA will be gnawing at the Perv's ankle, while aiding and abetting the Bad Guys.
Asked if the deal was signed in a hurry because the government did not involve local guarantors, he said the deal became possible after the two MMA MNAs sent the authorities a message that they could help them reach a settlement with the wanted men. âAlthough the two MNAs tried their best, they failed to realise the difficulties ahead. We told them to involve maliks (tribal chieftains) as well, but they ignored our request. Therefore, it will be unfair to blame the authorities for not involving local guarantors in the whole process,â he added.
That sort of thing happens when the negotiators are on the other side, doesn't it?
Asked if he could explain the third clause on foreignersâ registration, Brig Shah said the third clause allowed foreigners to live honourably but within the parameters of Governor Syed Iftikhar Hussain Shahâs December 23 address in Wana. He said the government was very clear about the third clause of the deal. âAll details have been worked out and Nek is aware of them. So, there is no ambiguity regarding the dealâs third clause,â he said. Asked if he could call the deal a success, he said: âNo. Fiasco is more like it. We have now got more intelligence about Nekâs links with foreigners. What we achieved from the deal is that people now understand our viewpoint and are convinced that the government was justified in its action against foreigners. One can see the opposition to military operations is coming down. Now we know where the foreigners are hiding in Waziristan. We know more about their communication system. We stand more educated on this issue now.â
Posted by: Fred ||
05/29/2004 11:57:20 PM ||
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#1
One can see the opposition to military operations is coming down. Now we know where the foreigners are hiding in Waziristan. We know more about their communication system. We stand more educated on this issue now.
Maybe we'll see another government invasion of Waziristan soon.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/29/2004 1:51 Comments ||
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#2
Oh, boy, Mike. Another Pak Parade.....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/29/2004 2:41 Comments ||
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The surprise comes in that they're actually admitting it...
Expressing a lack of confidence in the jirga and the lashkar, NWFP Governor Syed Iftikhar Hussain Shah on Friday hinted at new measures to deal with foreigners in South Waziristan Agency, saying the government had honoured all its promises but Wazir tribesmen failed to do so.
Surely you're not saying they're a shifty lot who'd rather lie than have breakfast?
âWe stand where we were six months ago,â said the governor, who looked disappointed by the lashkarâs slow progress in hunting down foreigners.
But the Bad Guys have had lotsa time and lotsa warning so they could either get out of Dodge or fortify their positions. With the army having to hump it through hostile tribesmen â the very same tribal lashkars, in fact â I'm betting they took the second option.
Addressing a grand jirga in Wana, Mr Shah said that the government had shown patience and large-heartedness but this had not yielded positive results. âWe cannot allow the situation to continue,â he said, adding the governmentâs patience should not be regarded as weakness.
"Indecisiveness, yes. Fear, yes. Weakness, no."
The governor made it clear that the foreigners would have to enrol with the authorities if they wanted to live in the tribal areas. âThe foreigners will have to provide their identification and this is a universally accepted rule to live in a foreign country,â he said. âYou people, the tribal elders, should suggest ways to solve the problem,â said Mr Shah, who seemed running out of ideas to resolve the crisis.
I have an idea: Kill them all.
Lamenting what he called South Waziristan Agencyâs link to terrorist acts in the country, he said: âTerrorists are against Pakistan and Islam and are playing into the enemyâs hands.â A tribal elder, reacting to the governorâs criticism of the lashkarâs failure to register foreigners admitted that his criticism was justified to some extent but said he could not comment more because the FCR rules bound him not to speak more. "We have lost a great deal of time and cannot afford more leniency. We care for you and we hope the tribal people will help avoid destruction and anarchy in Waziristan,â the governor added.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/29/2004 11:48:24 PM ||
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Attackers wounded two U.S. soldiers Friday and mortar shells rained down on the main American base in Najaf â separate incidents that threatened the deal aimed at ending the bloody, seven-week standoff around this Shiite holy city.
Gee. Golly. Wow. Whoever expected this?
Masked gunmen of radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's militia â some with knives and hand grenades strapped around their waists â roamed the streets of Najaf's twin city, Kufa, accusing the U.S.-led coalition of failing to honor the agreement to halt the fighting. The fighters accused the Americans of a provocation by sending tanks and armored vehicles into Kufa from three directions, prompting the militia to open fire "to protect ourselves." Three Iraqis were killed and eight injured in armed clashes, hospital workers said.
"They made us do it!"
In a sign of the tension, al-Sadr bravely failed to appear at a Kufa mosque where he has preached every Friday â the main Muslim day of worship â since the rebellion began in early April. Aides said his absence was due to security concerns. Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, coalition deputy chief of operations, reported five attacks against coalition forces in Kufa and said they "would appear to be violations" of a deal announced by Shiite leaders Thursday to end fighting in the Najaf and Kufa areas. Coalition spokesman Dan Senor said in Baghdad that occupation authorities still hoped the hudna cease-fire agreement would hold.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/29/2004 11:39:11 PM ||
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#1
I sure hope we know what we are doing and have brainstormed it out. Making deals in a snake pit full of snakes gives me the willies.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/29/2004 12:54 Comments ||
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#2
I don't get it. If they shoot at us then we should obliterate them. I am tired of reading that U.S. Soldiers and Marines are targets for these Islamic Fascists.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
05/29/2004 13:11 Comments ||
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Absolute must read.
THERE WAS A TIME not long ago when the conventional wisdom skewed heavily toward a Saddam-al Qaeda collaboration. In 1998 and early 1999, the Iraq-al Qaeda connection was widely reported in the American and international media. Former intelligence officers and government officials speculated about the relationship and its dangerous implications for the world. The information in the news reports came from foreign and domestic intelligence services. It was featured in mainstream media outlets including international wire services, prominent newsweeklies, network radio and television broadcasts.
Newsweek magazine ran an article in its January 11, 1999, issue headed "Saddam + Bin Laden?" "Hereâs what is known so far," it read:
"Saddam Hussein, who has a long record of supporting terrorism, is trying to rebuild his intelligence network overseasâassets that would allow him to establish a terrorism network. U.S. sources say he is reaching out to Islamic terrorists, including some who may be linked to Osama bin Laden, the wealthy Saudi exile accused of masterminding the bombing of two U.S. embassies in Africa last summer."
Four days later, on January 15, 1999, ABC News reported that three intelligence agencies believed that Saddam had offered asylum to bin Laden.
"Intelligence sources say bin Ladenâs long relationship with the Iraqis began as he helped Sudanâs fundamentalist government in their efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction. . . . ABC News has learned that in December, an Iraqi intelligence chief named Faruq Hijazi, now Iraqâs ambassador to Turkey, made a secret trip to Afghanistan to meet with bin Laden. Three intelligence agencies tell ABC News they cannot be certain what was discussed, but almost certainly, they say, bin Laden has been told he would be welcome in Baghdad."
NPR reporter Mike Shuster interviewed Vincent Cannistraro, former head of the CIAâs counterterrorism center, and offered this report.
"Iraqâs contacts with bin Laden go back some years, to at least 1994, when, according to one U.S. government source, Hijazi met him when bin Laden lived in Sudan. According to Cannistraro, Iraq invited bin Laden to live in Baghdad to be nearer to potential targets of terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. . . . Some experts believe bin Laden might be tempted to live in Iraq because of his reported desire to obtain chemical or biological weapons. CIA Director George Tenet referred to that in recent testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee when he said bin Laden was planning additional attacks on American targets."
By mid-February 1999, journalists did not even feel the need to qualify these claims of an Iraq-al Qaeda relationship. An Associated Press dispatch that ran in the Washington Post ended this way: "The Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has offered asylum to bin Laden, who openly supports Iraq against Western powers." Where did journalists get the idea that Saddam and bin Laden might be coordinating efforts? Among other places, from high-ranking Clinton administration officials. Read the whole thing. Seriously.
Full disclosure: the writer of the piece is shilling his book, they give you a link to Amazon. Might all be true, but buyer beware, etc.
Posted by: Sludj ||
05/29/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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#1
What about this, put all 50 divisions' boots on the ground in Afganistan. Get Osama while he tries to get away, put him on trial, make him cut his beard, put a dog collar on him, dog pile him on his mulla omar buddies.
"But osama may have been long gone Lucky!"
"Yes I know Abu, but our newsmen need a lead."
"Would Americans attack another islamic country if they had intelligence that OBL was there, say Iran or Pakiland?
"I don't think so Abu, I think it would be a bridge to far. Our lettered folk are still trying to win debating points. They want OBL but only if OBL is lurking in some PC location."
"Do you mean Lucky that OBL is a pawn vivant for some? That they don't care about OBL or the WoT. They're just after a president?"
"No Abu, they're just interested in world peace. That way they can sleep peacefully, no bad!"
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
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Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
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Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
