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Azam Tariq late!
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-Short Attention Span Theater-
Arnold’s Director - "Vote No to Arnold"
Hat Tip to Drudge
The executive producer of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s recent film COLLATERAL DAMAGE is warning colleagues in a purported email: ’Please be sure to vote NO on the recall. I know Arnold personally. He is in no way qualified to govern anybody or anything’...
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 10/06/2003 5:12:48 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6486 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Even less understanding of budgets.

The guy's a multimillionaire, isn't he? I'd say that he probably has a rather decent understanding of budgets.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/06/2003 17:19 Comments || Top||

#2  Eh, I think what was really being referred to was not understanding the wonders of profligate spending.
Posted by: Dishman || 10/06/2003 17:51 Comments || Top||

#3  This yahoo is a big supporter of the Dims. What you are seeing is the last death-throws of the Davis administration. Let it thrash about it will be dead soon. VOTE EARLY! VOTE OFTEN! VOTE ARNOLD!

Inhalers and Gropers for Arnold.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/06/2003 18:07 Comments || Top||

#4  --"I spent 6 months with him, he showed ZERO leadership qualities. Even less understanding of budgets...--

So says someone intimately familiar w/Hollywood accounting.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/06/2003 18:07 Comments || Top||

#5  This is amazing...

that is, it's amazing that anyone associated with this film (18% on the TomatoMeter) would feel qualified to pass judgement on anyone else's qualifications for anything...
Posted by: snellenr || 10/06/2003 18:13 Comments || Top||

#6  Anyone know the words to "edleweiss"?

I can tell you of about 10 people who were on the fence over the whole recall, have now come down squarely in favor of it as a result of the Davis campaign "tammany" style election approach.

One of these folks said something very important: "If they (davis) can do this kind of thing to a celebrity who has the means to fight back, what will they do to us little people if we speak out against Davis? if we dont stop him now, whats to stop him from taking revenge afterwards? Does any of us believe they would not stoop that low?"
Posted by: frank martin || 10/06/2003 18:16 Comments || Top||

#7  Did you say Abel Weiss?

Abel Weiss, Abel Weiss you make money for me, to pee, shrewd but nice Abel Weiss bless my PR forever....... more.

Posted by: Shipman || 10/06/2003 19:25 Comments || Top||

#8  Why do you say "Director" in the headline when it's his "Producer?" Two different jobs.

Of course, who cares either way? The interesting question is why DRudge hates Arnold so much. It's almost pathological, has been from the outset.
Posted by: RLS || 10/06/2003 20:34 Comments || Top||

#9  Roger's right, and I'm glad to see him here -
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 21:31 Comments || Top||

#10  Drudge may dislike Arnold because Der Terminator is just another celebrity who mistakes fame for knowledge. Have you heard Arnold give in-depth explanations of specific things he'd do as governor? It's not pretty.
Having said that, I would still vote for Arnold over the socialists like Davis or Bustamante.
Posted by: Uncle Joe || 10/06/2003 23:47 Comments || Top||

Mullah Abdul Razzaq Nafees Killed, Says Afghan Official
A close aide to supreme Taliban leader Mullah Omar has been killed in a clash in south Afghanistan, an Afghan official said on Monday, the second major blow to the hardline Islamic movement in under a month. News of the death of Mullah Abdul Razzaq Nafees, a member of the 10-strong Taliban shura (council) formed in June, came just days after the Taliban confirmed that Mullah Abdur Rahim, its top military commander in southern Afghanistan, had been killed.
Leadership positions now open, resumes accepted.
When last we heard from Mullah Nafees, he said, regarding Operation Mountain Viper in Zabul, ""If their claim is true, why don’t they show the bodies?" Now we can show his. Perhaps we should have him stuffed and mounted, like Uday and Qusay... I'm going to step outside and ululate for awhile...
Abdul Razzaq Achakzai, a senior Afghan military commander, said Nafees was killed in a clash with U.S.-led coalition and Afghan forces about 10 days ago in central Uruzgan province. "He was among the many Taliban killed in that fighting," he said.
"The Taliban are persistently showing signs of weakness," Achakzai told Reuters in the town of Spin Boldak, close to Pakistan border.
"... and Mullah Nafees is showing signs of rigor mortis."
Anytime they try a show of strength, they get wacked.
Mullah Abdul Samad, a Taliban intelligence officer, neither confirmed nor denied the report but said they had had no contact with Nafees for the past two weeks. "Presently, we don’t know whether he is dead or alive," he told Reuters.
"Nafees, phone home, please."
Omar had appointed Nafees to the 10-man Taliban leadership formed to intensify the "jihad," or holy war, against U.S.-led coalition troops and Afghan forces. Nafees also led Taliban forces during a major U.S.-led operation against the Islamic militia in Dai Chopan district of the southern Zabul province in August.
When your senior leadership is leading troops in the field, you know you’ve got a problem.
More than 100 Taliban rebels were killed in that operation.
Helluva job! Helluva job!
The one-eyed Omar, whose whereabouts are unknown, last week appointed Mullah Wakil Ahmed, elder brother of Rahim, as commander of Taliban rebels in southern Afghanistan. Rahim was among 15 guerrillas killed in southern Kandahar province on September 15.
We seem to be attriting the Taliban leaders at a good rate.
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 9:15:07 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6465 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Quagmire! Dreaded Afghan winter!
interesting that Rooters reported this...
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 10:24 Comments || Top||

#2  "Nafees, phone home, please."
Kinda hard for him to do. Hell's '666' area code has been down for months now, something to do with overwork.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/06/2003 11:10 Comments || Top||

#3  "Nafees, phone home, please."
Kinda hard for him to do. Hell's '666' area code has been down for months now, something to do with overwork.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/06/2003 11:10 Comments || Top||

OBLs videos popular in Britain
EFL. From Little Green Footballs
Videotapes that show how to make bombs and include calls to action from Osama Bin Laden are reportedly being circulated among radical British Muslims.
A masked man shows how to wire a detonator in one video viewed by The Observer. The man then gives instructions in Arabic on how to make a bomb, the Sunday paper said.
"You put this wire here, and pour this chemical here, and oops!" BOOM!
The next sequence is an exploding bomb in a building, apparently somewhere in Afghanistan and footage of terrorists in what appears to be an al-Qaeda training camp.
Have to go to school

The second video features demonstrations of terrorist and military techniques, The Observer said.
"Okay. This is a 3-day-old evil Zionist baby. Now watch." BLAM!
Both videos were thought to have been made in the United Kingdom, the newspaper said.
Bin Laden, in Britain!?
The Observer said the videos could spark new fear among security officials who have said they were more concerned about the threat posed by "home-grown" militants than outside terrorists.
Oh shit.
Posted by: Atrus || 10/06/2003 4:36:02 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6471 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Brits have to quit playing footsie with these guys. PC will kill them just like it will kill us in the US if we don't get our collective heads back in daylight. Some deportations could help instill some fear into these Jihadi Asylum Seekers.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/06/2003 17:05 Comments || Top||

Terror suspects to face British court
Three men arrested on terrorism charges in dawn raids a week ago have been charged with crimes ranging from conspiracy to murder to forgery, British police said today. Kamel Merzoug, 32, was charged with conspiracy to murder and conspiracy to cause a public nuisance.
Interesting set of charges, I guess murder is a nuisance to the murderee.
Abdul Kharim Kharrati, 32, of London, and Jamal Hakkou, 25, from Morocco, were charged with forgery.
Passports, perhaps?
Police said that all three appeared at London’s Bow Street Magistrates’ Court on Saturday. Kharrati and Hakkou are both scheduled to appear at the same court on October 10 while Merzoug was ordered to appear at the Old Bailey criminal court on October 13. The three were among 11 men arrested on September 30 in dawn raids in London and the northern English city of Manchester. Another man, aged 38, remained in police custody, detained under the Terrorism Act. Another three men arrested in Manchester were no longer detained under the Terrorism Act but remain in police custody in connection with undisclosed criminal investigations.
The difference betwen the two being ever so slight.
Three other men, aged 30, 32 and 37, were released by police but face questioning in criminal investigations.
Not quite enough to hold them, yet.
Another man was no longer facing terrorism charges but had been detained by immigration authorities.
Of course.
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 3:55:11 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6474 views] Top|| File under:

Fifth Column
Anti-America M.S.
I got this off LGF; I can’t get into the site. Sorry
At a passing glance, there was a certain familiarity about this Los Angeles public middle-school classroom. The students definitely looked the part—they were still sweet, still relatively innocent, the boys barely aware of the girls, the girls only barely able to tolerate the boys. And there was a teacher standing in front, talking about the video that was playing.
So far so good

A closer look, however, revealed that most of the students were in the back of the room making protest signs. The few 11- and 12-year olds watching the screen saw Guatemalan villagers exhuming the skeletons of victims of that Central American nation’s bloody civil war. And the social studies teacher made it clear he thought the U.S. had been on the wrong side. "That’s a mass grave—you’ve heard about them," Shawn McDougal told the class. "The U.S. supported the government and they were our friends. We gave them weapons so they could kill their own people." By contrast, the guerrillas fighting the government were, apparently in his view, valiant heroes. "What’s a guerrilla movement?" the teacher asked, then quickly answered: "People fighting for change, right? For economic and political reforms, right? And they opposed the military government."
That's what I like, a nice, even-handed assessment...
He shushed the kids in the back of the room, then continued: "Remember how we talked about Afghanistan? About how the U.S. gave money to arm Osama bin Laden?" The lesson given on this autumn day a year ago was typical for this taxpayer-supported school—where the war in Iraq is wrong, capitalism is suspect, immigrants are almost always taken advantage of by their bosses, and the United States and its government are, if not the enemy per se, then at least misguided. Those messages mirror the beliefs of the school’s founders, Roger Lowenstein, a 60-year-old former attorney-turned-TV writer, and Susanne Coie, a 33-year-old teacher. They conceived of this school as having a dual purpose: giving inner-city students from ethnically and economically diverse backgrounds a college-prep education, and exposing them to immigration, criminal justice, labor relations and other social issues. They would learn community organizing and study law and public policy. Their field trips would be street protests.
And this is a PUBLIC school! Are parents allowed to shift their children if they have a brain?
Posted by: Atrus || 10/06/2003 1:55:18 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6485 views] Top|| File under:

#1  the link is for the LA Times, which requires registration
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 14:10 Comments || Top||

#2  This guy is paid to teach not to indoctrinate.

Is there any way to get this guy refunding the tax
payer with the INTEGRALITY of his salaries since he started to work?
Posted by: JFM || 10/06/2003 14:45 Comments || Top||

#3  JFM

I disagree. The teacher is paid to perform whatever function the local school board is willing to put up with. Child indoctrionation only happens when the parents allow it.
Posted by: Superhose || 10/06/2003 15:20 Comments || Top||

#4  Then sue the school and/or the state. You are not
paying taxes for having your child indoctrinated. In fact you are not paying taxes to have anyone's child indoctrinated (those child are future voters).
School is supposed to be secular, right? No reason it is allowed to be political.

There are also other aspects. First, a teacher is in a better position to influence people than say, an engineer. Second, there is the aspect of an adult abusing his position to get his way with children. IMHO a teacher who indoctrinates children is not so far away as a teacher who uses
his authority to have sex with them. It is
a rape of consciences, of consciences too weak to oppose a proper defense.

BTW, if you want to know why I am so sanguine: I had communist teachers.

Posted by: JFM || 10/06/2003 16:50 Comments || Top||

#5  This is a charter school, so parents have to apply for their children and can take them out for a standard LA school. But, Joanne Jacobs points out the students have improved 2 1/2 years in reading ability in one year. If they learn to read, they can learn what pap their teachers are feeding them. If they can't read, the lessons on Guatemala will just be reinforced by the indoctrination of PBS, ABC, et. al.

Evidence of the students' ability to sift through the indoctrination is in the article: " In the spring, a student survey in the school newspaper found that the social studies classes, which most closely identified with this school's stated mission, were by the far the students' least favorite. An accompanying editorial suggested the reason: "At the door you can feel the boredom brewing." McDougal said he regretted their sentiment, but was glad they felt free to voice their opinion."
Posted by: Mr. Davis || 10/06/2003 16:53 Comments || Top||

#6  Evidence of the students' ability to sift through the indoctrination is in the article: " In the spring, a student survey in the school newspaper found that the social studies classes, which most closely identified with this school's stated mission, were by the far the students' least favorite. An accompanying editorial suggested the reason: "At the door you can feel the boredom brewing."

There's still a problem - even if students are able to sift through the indoctrination, they aren't challenging what's being said. Even if the students are bored, at some point in time later on in life there's a good chance they'll remember the crap that was dispensed in class and, assuming that they don't do research of their own, will likely tailor their beliefs accordingly.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/06/2003 17:16 Comments || Top||

#7  Maybe Ah-nuld can have a long heart-to-heart with the staff of this public school in a couple of weeks, once the entire recall thing settles down. Something along the line of "this isn't going to happen in MY state..."
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/06/2003 19:54 Comments || Top||

Azam Tariq bumped off!
Gunmen killed five people in an attack on a vehicle in the Pakistani capital Islamabad on Monday, police and a medical charity said. The attack came on the same day that U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage visited President Pervez Musharraf for talks focused on the "war on terror".
"Welcome to Islamabad, keep your head down."
"Five people have been killed in firing," said Nasir Amin, a supervisor at the Edhi Welfare Trust in Islamabad. "We were told it was a government vehicle." An official at police headquarters confirmed the death toll and said the five victims had been travelling in a four-wheel-drive Mitsubishi Pajero. "It appears it was a government vehicle," said one police official.
Have to wait and see who they were and what government agency.
Violent attacks on the government are unusual in Pakistan, but last year saw a spate of attacks on Western and Christian targets. Sectarian violence carried out by extremist Sunni or Shia Muslims is also common, with hundreds killed in recent years.

Here's more, from AP...
In a brazen daylight attack, gunmen assassinated a hardline Sunni Muslim politician and four other people Monday, spraying their car with automatic weapon-fire before fleeing.
"Brazen daylight attack," huh? I like that better than skulking midnight assassinations...
The motive was not immediately known, but the politician, Maulana Azam Tariq, had made many enemies as head of the outlawed Sipah-e-Sahaba group, blamed for the killings of hundreds of minority Shiite Muslims.
Wonder if it has anything to do with the Shias who worked for the Pak space program, bumped off on their way to the mosque last week? Y'think? Why, it seems like only yesterday they were threatening Dire Revenge™...
The majority of Pakistan's Sunnis and Shiites live peacefully, but small militant groups on either side target each other.
More Sunni than Shiite, though. Much more Sunni...
The gunmen were driving a sport utility vehicle and opened fire as the car carrying Tariq, a member of the national Parliament, was driving near a toll plaza on the southwestern outskirts of the city, said Islamabad police chief Mohammed Akram. The other victims were a driver and three bodyguards.
Did their jobs well, didn't they?
Pakistan's Geo television showed gruesome images of the victims lying slumped in the bullet-riddled car amid shattered glass.
"Ding dong, the mullah's dead!"
There were fears the killing could spark a wave of violence in a country that has seen all too much of it in recent years.
It'd have to be a pretty big wave just to be noticeable...
Hundreds of Tariq's followers accompanied his body from the hospital to a mosque in Islamabad. Some threw stones at shops; others chanted "America is a dog!" and anti-Shiite slogans. No major damage was reported.
If America's a dog, the fundos are her chew toy...
In the southern port city of Karachi, police tightened security, especially around churches and Shiite Muslim mosques.
That's usually what gets shot up, isn't it? Preferably when they're having services and everybody's unarmed...
"The police are on high alert," said the city's police chief, Tariq Jamil. A top leader of Tariq's new political party, Millat-e-Islamia, condemned the killing and warned of nationwide violence protests if those responsible are not caught. "This is an irreparable loss," said Maulana Ali Sher Haideri, the party chairman.
That was the whole idea, Ali...
In an apparent reference to Tariq's Shiite enemies, Haideri said "it is obvious who did it." He would not elaborate.
Just like it's obvious who dunnit every time a busload of Shias is bumped off...
Enemies of Tariq's outlawed Sipah-e-Sahaba group also denounced the assassination. Syed Hamid Ali Shah Moasvi, the head of a major Shiite group, Tahrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqa-e-Jaaferia, said the killing had been carried out by people "who do not want to see peace in Pakistan."
"... against people who do not want to see peace in Pakistan. Oh, woe is me! I'm next up when it comes to Dire Revenge™!"
Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat, himself a Shiite, said he ordered a thorough investigation.
"Mahmoud! Round up the usual suspects!"
Tariq, a lunatic fiery politician in his mid-40s, was detained by Pakistan at the start of the U.S.-led military operation in Afghanistan to prevent him from leading pro-Taliban rallies. But he won a seat in Parliament from behind bars in October 2002, and was released shortly afterward when a court in the eastern city of Lahore ruled the government had not produced enough evidence to hold him.
"Leader of a major fundo organization, parent body to Lashkar e-Jhangvi, possibly the most vicious (though not the brighest) terror organization in the entire world, hundreds of people dead... Nope. You'll have to come up with something more convincing than that, I'm afraid..."
Although Tariq denied supporting armed struggle, Sipah-e-Sahaba — or the Guardians of the Friends of the Prophet — was blamed by police for more than 400 killings in sectarian violence in recent years.
"Nope. Nope. Not enough evidence... Mahmoud! Tighten my turban, wouldja?"
The group also has strong ties to Afghanistan's former Taliban leaders. The group was one of five militant organizations outlawed by President Gen. Pervez Musharraf in 2002 as he sought to purge the country of extremism and terrorism.
Did a good job, didn't he?
Tariq formed Millat-e-Islamia, or Islamic Nation, in April. Several banned Pakistani militant groups have gotten around laws meant to disband them by simply changing their names.
"Huh huh! Can't arrest them, 'cuz they changed their names. Gotta start all over again — nope, not enough evidence against this bunch!"
Since his release from prison, Tariq had become a supporter of the government of Prime Minister Zafarullah Khan Jamali, a Musharraf ally.
Politix makes strange bedfellows, and even stranger pregnancies...
Tariq's funeral will be held outside the parliament Tuesday.
Wish I could make it. I'd like to make sure he's dead see him off...
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 9:23:14 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6585 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Details: Gunmen opened fire on a car belonging to a Sunni Muslim extremist politician in Islamabad on Monday, killing at least five people, police and government officials said. The car belonged to Maulana Azam Tariq, the head of the violent pro-Taliban Sipah-e-Sahaba group and a member of parliament, a high-ranking Interior Ministry official said. Tariq was not in the car at the time and it was not clear what relationship, if any, he had with the victims, the official said. No one immediately claimed responsibility. The gunmen had opened fire on the car from a sport utility vehicle, the officials said. Mohammed Idrees, a police official, said five people were killed in the attack, ``but we do not know who the victims were.'' Considered the most violent Sunni Muslim group, Tariq's Sipah-e-Sahaba has been blamed by police for more than 400 killings in sectarian violence in Pakistan in recent years. Most of the victims have been Shiite Muslims, but attacks on Christians and Western interests have increased since Musharraf joined the U.S.-led war on terror.

Pity they missed Tariq, better luck next time.
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 9:49 Comments || Top||

#2  They got him!!!!:
Gunmen assassinated a hardline Sunni Muslim politician and four other people as they drove in their car in the Pakistani capital on Monday, officials and the politician's personal secretary said. Maulana Azam Tariq, the head of the violent pro-Taliban group Sipah-e-Sahab and a member of Parliament, was among the dead, said Tariq's personal secretary, Maulana Rashid Farooqi.
The attack occurred Monday afternoon near a toll plaza on the southwestern outskirts of the city, said police official Mohammed Idrees.

Toll plaza, huh? Just like Sonny.

Farooqi, who was at Islamabad's PIMS hospital, where the bodies were taken, said Tariq had been killed. Officials had said earlier that he wasn't in the car when it was attacked.

Ululation may now commence.
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 10:02 Comments || Top||

#3  handing out candy in the office right now....

we can only hope there's retaliation..heh heh
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 10:32 Comments || Top||

#4  How..ahem...sad.

Yes, sad, that's the word...
Posted by: mojo || 10/06/2003 10:59 Comments || Top||

#5  I wonder if the shooters thought the vehicle was carrying Richard Armitage? If they did, then they're informant is soon to be dead.

Posted by: Charles || 10/06/2003 12:35 Comments || Top||

#6  Couldn't have happened to a nicer man
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/06/2003 18:46 Comments || Top||

Pak dismantles ‘Harkat camp’
Paramilitary forces backed by Pakistan Army scoured and dismantled a terrorist training facility in the country’s Northern Areas early on Saturday. A spokesman Maj-Gen Shaukat Sultan declined to identify the group operating the camp in Tangir sub-division of Diamir district. However, local residents told Dawn by telephone that the camp was used by Harkat-ul-Mujahideen. Incidentally, US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and Assistant Secretary Christina Rocca are scheduled to arrive in Islamabad today.
"Just coincidence, of course..."
The camp had been abandoned a month or so ago. Called Bajajiano Maskar, it was located in the small Tangir valley on the banks of Indus, north of Karakoram Highway. Comprising three residential blocks, it once housed 20 to 25 trainees, locals said. The spokesman said the camp was a terrorist facility involved in domestic terrorism, including terrorist killings, sectarian killings and blockading of Karakoram Highway. ‘‘The camp has no connection with Al Qaeda but the possibility of it receiving patronage from outside cannot be ruled out,’’ Sultan said. He disclosed the troops destroyed the infrastructure and other ‘logistics.’ ‘‘There were no arms or ammunition there,’’ he confirmed.
"Nope. Took it all with 'em..."
Dawn’s Gilgit correspondent reported that apart from some Gilgit-based army units that had proceeded to Tangir on Friday, some 20 truckloads of armymen were summoned from other areas to take part in the operation. At least four helicopters were seen hovering over the valley, assisting the troops busy in the operation on the ground.
Posted by: rg117 || 10/06/2003 9:07:25 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6467 views] Top|| File under:

US pushes back the curfew in Baghdad
More evidence of the dreaded quagmire.
After months of staying home in fear of roving gangs of looters and US checkpoints, Baghdad’s night-owls are coming out again. If you’re the sort of Baghdadi man addicted to conversation and languid evenings - whether a Baathist sympathizer angry at the US occupation or a Shia merchant delighted by Saddam Hussein’s ouster - you’re once more heading out after night has fallen. The US invasion briefly shut down Baghdad’s cafe culture. It has suffered since because of the plague of nighttime carjackings and theft that swept the capital after the collapse of the regime. But in one sign last week that security is improving, the US-led coalition authority moved the start of curfew from 11 to midnight. Thousands took advantage of the extended evening last Thursday, the end of the Iraqi workweek. Though far from the prewar war throngs, business is picking up at Baghdad’s cafes, where men have gathered around tiny glasses of cardamom-flavored coffee to trade gossip and political rumors for centuries. Many Baghdadi’s say they’re free to speak their minds in the cafes these days, without fear of being denounced by the informers that were everywhere under Saddam.
Er, I guessed I missed what you said, Senator Kerry, WHO is responsible for this?
The Arabic Cafe at the Babylon Hotel, a place bathed in dim red lights and Lebanese MTV, is having its busiest night since the war. "Praises be to God, it’s finally safe to come out again,’’ says Haider Saffa, a beetle-browed tool salesman who left his house at night for the first time since a few days after the invasion, when a young tough with a rifle pushed him from his car. Tonight, he is kicking back with a few pals and a strong cup of cardamom- flavored coffee. Spreading his girth on his low-couch, Saffa says he loves everything about the cafe: the burgundy Persian carpets, the red-velvet wallhangings, the fruit-flavored smell. A Saddam loyalist, he hates the American presence in the city, but concedes that conditions have improved in recent months. "They’ve got more Iraqis out on the streets as police now, and that’s making a difference,’’ he says. "We’ve got to return to a normal life."
An opportunist. Sigh. Ya find them in every occupation.
Carjackings and lootings have decreased. Another sign of nighttime normality is the resumption of evening shopping. As recently as a month ago, shopkeepers were pulling down their grates and hustling home at nightfall. Now, the Keradeh neighborhood near central Baghdad bustles with nighttime commerce. Smoke curls upwards from kebab grills at the curb, pomegranates and apples are piled high at casual open-air markets, and rug merchants adjust the displays in front of their stores. As we pass, bright light spills out from the shops into the crowded streets - though that’s subject to change, as the power is still off half the time.
But it's on in other areas, where it wasn't before...
Of course, violence is still a daily fact of life on Baghdad’s streets.
Ditto in Detroit.
On Saturday, one Iraqi man was killed when US troops and Iraqi police disbursed a stone-throwing mob of former Iraqi soldiers with gunfire. The soldiers had gathered to collect their pay, which has been provided by the US since May. They were angry over rumors that their payments are going to be cut off, and they also burned four nearby liquor stores and destroyed a police car.
That definitely sounds like Detroit.
And while the murder rate has dropped from as many as 60 a day in Baghdad immediately after the invasion to something closer to about 16 a day, that is still almost double the prewar crime rate, according to the Baghdad morgue and human rights groups.
Does that pre-war rate include the guys Sammy was having bumped off?
Nothing could be more peaceful than the veranda of the Beiruti Casino overlooking the Tigris. About 50 men - from a high-spirited group of 20-somethings in jeans and T-shirts to two graybeards in robes playing an intense game of backgammon - trade stories in the cool air of the nighttime desert. The Beiruti has been a Baghdad institution since it opened in the 70s. Before the war, hundreds of men would have been spread out in the glow of its lamps on a night like tonight. No gambling goes on here beyond the risk of having to pay the bill of a dollar or two if you lose to your companion. The place remained open during the war, but did very little business until now. "Three weeks ago we had two drunks with AKs firing like crazy right down there,’’ says a waiter, gesturing to the riverbank. "That’s not really the sort of atmosphere our customers are looking for."
It’s tough to split two aces at the blackjack table when the RPG’s are going off in the background.
Shortly before 11 tonight at the Beiruti, the closest thing to gunfire is the satisfied slap of domino tiles on the tables, and the shouts of men delighted to have rolled double-sixes at backgammon. Conversation is carried on amid Arab pop music. "We’d stay out until dawn if we could,’’ says Ali Abdul Latief, a 20-year old ex-soldier who now works as a butcher. Gesturing at the river with a fourth finger severed at the first joint - a result of an accident while still an apprentice butcher - Latief says: "This is one of the most beautiful countries in the world." Then the power goes out, and everything is plunged into darkness. Baghdad isn’t quite back to normal yet. It’s time to go home.
Getting closer to normal.
Considering the place has never actually been normal...
Posted by: Steve White || 10/06/2003 11:54:33 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6482 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And while the murder rate has dropped from as many as 60 a day in Baghdad immediately after the invasion to something closer to about 16 a day, that is still almost double the prewar crime rate, according to the Baghdad morgue and human rights groups.

I wonder if this prewar crime rate includes all the people Sammy and his henchmen murdered?

Posted by: Raj || 10/06/2003 12:28 Comments || Top||

#2  Tell me again about the quagmire.
Posted by: Atrus || 10/06/2003 12:30 Comments || Top||

#3  Probably not. The ones the Muhkbarat popped didn't make it to the morgue.
Posted by: mojo || 10/06/2003 14:54 Comments || Top||

#4  I like the vignette about the butcher with the missing finger.

"Got a little extra for you today, Missus Habib. No extra charge."

Posted by: Carl in N.H. || 10/06/2003 18:02 Comments || Top||

#5  By the way, as one who has been a serious critic of media coverage in Iraq, it really is time for me to give kudos to the Christian Science Monitor which has consistently tried to give a fair view of what's happening in Iraq. This isn't the first story like this that they've done, and they were writing this kind of material well before the current stink about biased coverage.
Posted by: R. McLeod || 10/07/2003 0:51 Comments || Top||

Turkey’s Cabinet Approves Troops for Iraq
Turkey’s Cabinet Approves Troops for Iraq

ANKARA, Turkey - Turkey’s Cabinet agreed Monday to send troops to Iraq (news - web sites) to help stabilize the country — a decision that could relieve U.S. operations in Iraq and help Turkey mend frayed relations with the United States.

But the decision must be approved by Parliament, where many oppose any deployment. Lawmakers are likely to vote this week.

If the deployment is approved, Turkey would become the first predominantly Muslim nation to contribute troops to Iraq.

There was no information on how many soldiers the government plans to send. However, government officials have said the United States requested some 10,000 troops.

Government spokesman Cemil Cicek said troops would be deployed for one year, adding: "We hope that they stay for less than one year."

The United States has been seeking soldiers from Turkey as well as India, Pakistan and South Korea (news - web sites) to bolster 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) says he has given up hope of getting Indian soldiers to help coalition forces secure Iraq, while Pakistan has said it will send its troops only under a U.N. mandate.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has been in favor of contributing troops to help improve ties with the United States that have been strained since March when the Turkish parliament narrowly turned down a U.S. request to station 60,000 U.S. troops in Turkey for the Iraq war. The latest move would also allow Turkey a say in the future of neighboring Iraq.

The Turkish public was overwhelmingly opposed to the war in Iraq, and with the number of U.S. casualties mounting it is also strongly opposed to sending soldiers now. On Monday, anti-war demonstrators staged a protest outside the prime minister’s office where the Cabinet met, splashing red paint on the street.

Erdogan has said that once approved by Cabinet, a motion seeking permission to dispatch soldiers would rapidly be brought to parliament. On Monday, Salih Kapusuz, a top official from Erdogan’s party, said parliament could vote on the issue as early as Tuesday.

The Cabinet decision came after Turkey received assurances from the U.S. State Department’s counterterrorism chief, Cofer Black, last week that the United States would remove the threat posed to Turkey by Turkish Kurdish rebels of the autonomy-seeking Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK, based in northern Iraq.

U.S. officials did not rule out the use of military force. The United States has designated the PKK, which now goes by the name of KADEK, as a terrorist organization.

Turkey has sought a U.S. commitment to fight the militants, hoping this would help the government win domestic support for the deployment.

There was no information on when the troops would be dispatched. Private CNN-Turk television said the military had ordered troops to prepare for deployment. Reports have suggested that the troops could be stationed in the Sunni Arab areas, west and north of Baghdad.

Iraqi Kurdish groups and members of the Iraqi interim government have spoken out against the deployment of troops from Turkey and other neighboring nations.
Posted by: Murat || 10/06/2003 10:23:43 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6464 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Y'gotta pay to play, boys. Ante up.
Posted by: mojo || 10/06/2003 11:01 Comments || Top||

#2  Welcome to Fallujah.
Posted by: Brian || 10/06/2003 13:19 Comments || Top||

U.S. Closes Makeshift Iraq Prison Camp
BAGHDAD, Liberated Iraq (AP) - The U.S. military has shut down Camp Cropper, an increasingly notorious makeshift prison where hundreds of Iraqis were crowded into tents through Baghdad’s scorching summer, a U.S. official reported Sunday. The detainees were scattered to other facilities. The Iraqi Lawyers League, pressing a rights campaign under an ex-political prisoner of the Baath regime, has won another concession from the Americans as well: accelerated hearings, with lawyers, for some of at least 5,500 detained Iraqis.
Wonder if anyone will compare our response with the likely response of Saddam to a similar situation?
That newly elected league president, Malik Dohan al-Hassan, met with U.S. occupation chief L. Paul Bremer a month ago to register complaints about the internment of thousands of Iraqis without charge since a U.S.-British invasion force toppled Saddam Hussein’s Baath government in April. "I told Bremer the Americans and the Iraqi people ought to have become friends since then, but the way they have handled these things has produced just the opposite effect," Malik said.

Journalists were barred from Camp Cropper, but released detainees this summer told of overcrowded and unsanitary conditions, and they alleged physical abuse by guards. The human rights group Amnesty International protested it "may amount to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, banned by international law."
If the reports are true then it was right for us to close the camp. But AI seems a mite more interested in Iraqi prisons now than say, three years ago.
The camp population included both Iraqis picked up for allegedly committing common crimes, and so-called "security detainees," mainly Baathists deemed to be a threat to the security of the occupation force. "They are living in tents in the desert, in a very hot climate. Some detainees are sick," said Malik, interviewed Sunday before the closing of the camp was disclosed.

The former law professor and Iraqi information minister, who was himself imprisoned for 1 1/2 years by the Baathists after they seized power in 1968, also complained that lawyers were not allowed into the heavily guarded airport. "That was another reason why we closed the airport (camp)," said U.S. Army Col. Ralph Sabatino, who specializes in detainee issues and is a chief liaison with the interim Iraqi Justice Ministry.

Sabatino said Cropper was shut down last Wednesday, on Bremer’s orders, and its several hundred inmates were transferred to at least three Baghdad-area prisons. Cropper held as many as 1,200 detainees this summer, Sabatino said. "It wasn’t supposed to be a detention center" but a temporary holding facility, he said. "It was designed for 250 people. When it grew to 500 to 700, it got very crowded. It had a very bad reputation, appropriately."

The Army Reserve officer, in civilian life an assistant corporation counsel for the City of New York, said he met with Lawyers League representatives two weeks ago. "Since that time we’ve coordinated to facilitate their representation of people in custody," he said.
Our people listen and respond. Hope that makes an impression on the Iraqis.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/06/2003 1:46:30 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6470 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Our people listen and respond. Hope that makes an impression on the Iraqis.
Unfortunately, in Honor/Shame societys like Iraq, the impression will probably be one that we Americans are weaklings.
I just hope I'm wrong. :(
Posted by: N Guard || 10/06/2003 2:43 Comments || Top||

#2  WTF, all we did was close the temporary camp and move the prisoners to repaired, permanent prisons. And we are begining to sort through the POWs, and will let those go that don't pose a threat. Sounds all good to me.
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 10:51 Comments || Top||

#3  So...

Camp Cropper came a cropper, y'might say.

Or not...
Posted by: mojo || 10/06/2003 11:04 Comments || Top||

#4  Didn't take lone for the ambulance chasers to come out.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/06/2003 11:33 Comments || Top||

Kay: Iraq Weapons Hunters Pursuing Tips
WASHINGTON (AP) - Weapons hunters in Iraq are pursuing tips that point to the possible presence of anthrax and Scud missiles still hidden in the country, the chief searcher said Sunday. David Kay told Congress last week that his survey team had not found nuclear, biological or chemical weapons so far. But he argued against drawing conclusions, saying he expects to provide a full picture on Iraq’s weapons programs in six months to nine months.
That won’t stop certain Dems, and a number of liberal bloggers, from gleefully exploiting what they think Mr. Kay’s report says.
While lacking physical evidence for the presence anthrax or Scuds, Kay said tips from Iraqis are motivating the search for them.

Critics, including many in Congress, say Kay’s findings do not support most of the Bush administration’s prewar assertions that the United States faced an imminent, serious threat from Iraq’s Saddam Hussein because of widespread and advanced Iraqi weapons programs. President Bush has said the U.S.-led war on Iraq was justified despite the failure to find weapons.
And further says that the Kay report supports this, though the Guardian conveniently forgets to tell us that.
Kay reported that searchers found a vial of live botulinum bacteria that had been stored since 1993 in an Iraqi scientist’s refrigerator. The bacteria make botulinum toxin, which can be used as a biological weapon, but Kay has offered no evidence that the bacteria had been used in a weapons program. The live bacteria was among a collection of ``reference strains’’ of biological organisms that could not be used to produce biological warfare agents.
But one needs reference strains to produce bio-agents as a control in the process. That’s why you buy them.
Kay said Sunday the same scientist told investigators that he was asked to hide another much larger cache of strains, but ``after a couple of days he turned them back because he said they were too dangerous. He has small children in the house.’’

Kay said the cache ``contains anthrax and that’s one reason we’re actively interested in getting it.’’ Kay, speaking on ``Fox News Sunday,’’ did not say whether the anthrax was live or a strain used only for anthrax research. Before the war, Iraqis said they had destroyed their supply of anthrax. Inspectors haven’t found any and Iraqis haven’t been able to provide evidence to satisfy investigators that they did destroy it. Experts note that old supplies of anthrax would have degraded by now.

While the Bush administration argued before taking the country to war that Iraq’s arsenal posed an imminent threat, much of what Kay discovered is that Iraq had interest in such weapons and was researching some agents.
No, GWB & Co. did not say "imminent threat."
Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., said Kay’s report shows Saddam’s clear intent to develop chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. He said, however, that the administration didn’t tell the public the whole truth. ``There is some evidence that the Bush administration exaggerated unnecessarily,’’ he told ``Fox News Sunday.’’ Lieberman, a presidential candidate, said the exaggeration ``did discredit what was otherwise a very just cause of fighting tyranny and terrorism.’’
Trying desparately to have it both ways.
Bush and Secretary of State Colin Powell have contended the vial of botulinum bacteria that Kay’s team found is one strong piece of evidence of Saddam’s weapons intent.

Searches have been unsuccessful for the kind of long-range Scud missiles the Iraqis fired at Saudi Arabia and Israel in 1991. Many were destroyed during and after the Persian Gulf War, but the Bush administration had accused Iraq of continuing to hide Scuds. Kay said there are indications there may still be Scuds even though Iraq declared it got rid of them in the early 1990s. ``We have Iraqis now telling us that they continued until 2001, early 2002, to be capable of mixing and preparing Scud missile fuel. Scud missile fuel is only useful in Scud missiles,’’ he said. ``Why would you continue to produce Scud missile fuel if you didn’t have Scuds? We’re looking for the Scuds.’’

Kay’s report to Congress said the information on fuel production came from Iraqi sources and has not been confirmed with documents or physical evidence.

Weapons hunters still are looking for chemical weapons at scores of large ammunition storage sites throughout Iraq. Because of the size of the depots, searchers have examined only 10 of 130 sites so far, Kay said. ``These are sites that contain - the best estimate is between 600,000 and 650,000 tons of arms,’’ he said. ``That’s about one-third of the entire ammunition stockpile of the much larger U.S. military.’’
That’s a lot of ammo.
The Iraqis stored chemical weapons, often unmarked, among conventional munitions, so ``you really have to examine each one,’’ Kay said. He said 26 sites are on a critical list to be examined quickly.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/06/2003 1:35:55 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6468 views] Top|| File under:

#1  tip to instapundit: http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/7396.htm

October 6, 2003 -- The head of the weapons hunt in Iraq yesterday said his teams are hot on the trail of anthrax and Scud missiles, and he's "amazed" that anyone could think the search so far is a failure.

Posted by: spiffo || 10/06/2003 14:35 Comments || Top||

#2  I was hoping that eventually we would get information about the operations before and during the opening hours of the war concerning the Scud Box.

Was nothing found there?
Posted by: Superhose || 10/06/2003 14:41 Comments || Top||

Southeast Asia
Indonesian who sheltered Bali bomber sentenced to seven years
An Indonesian judge on Monday found a Muslim teacher guilty of giving convicted Bali bomber Ali Imron somewhere to hide after the attacks a year ago, and sentenced him to seven years in prison. Chief judge I Wayan Sugawa said Muhammad Yunus, a teacher at the Istiqomah Muslim boarding school in Samarinda in East Kalimantan province, had provided Imron with a hut on a small island to hide after the October blasts which killed 202 people. Prosecutors had recommended a 10-year jail sentence. Yunus’ lawyer, Andres Manalo Sulaiman, told AFP he would appeal. Yunus is the 13th accomplice of key Bali suspects to be sentenced so far. Fourteen others are still awaiting verdicts.
So far, so good.
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 3:25:02 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6466 views] Top|| File under:

Armed Kidnappers Grab Six People in Speedboat Raid on Malaysian Resort
Three Indonesian and three Filipino migrant workers all men in their 30s were taken in the attack on the Borneo Paradise Eco-Farm Resort in eastern Sabah state at about 10:30 p.m. Sunday, Malaysian national police chief Norian Mai said. He said the kidnappers were believed to be Malaysians possibly pirates and authorities did not believe any foreign group was involved. But diplomats said the raid bore some of the hallmarks of two attacks in 2000 on dive resorts in Malaysia by the Abu Sayyaf, an al-Qaida-linked Islamic extremist group in the southern Philippines. The United States, Australia and other countries renewed travel warnings earlier this year for Sabah, saying the Abu Sayyaf and other terrorists continue to pose a kidnap threat in the state.
Posted by: TS || 10/06/2003 8:42:45 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6461 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Er, just how much ransom can you get kidnapping migrant workers? After gas for the boat, food, lodging, per diem, etc, seems like you'd be lucky to break even.
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 10:55 Comments || Top||

#2  You can probably squeeze a lot of intel about the layout and workings of the resort out of them though. Wouldn't even have to squeeze very hard, is my bet.
Posted by: mojo || 10/06/2003 11:08 Comments || Top||

A top terrorist sings to his interrogators
It is a working principle of professional interrogators that every detainee wants to tell his story. It did not take long for Riduan Isamuddin—the al-Qaeda operative better known as Hambali—to prove that rule. In fact, it took less than two weeks. After his Aug. 11 arrest in southern Thailand, al-Qaeda’s top man in Asia was turned over by Thai authorities to his mortal enemies, agents of the U.S. According to reports they wrote dated Aug. 22 and Aug. 26, copies of which were obtained by TIME, Hambali confessed to his involvement in recent terrorist attacks that have left hundreds dead in Southeast Asia, detailed the relationships between al-Qaeda and terrorist groups in Asia and listed the names of scores of associates. Of course, Hambali, 39, may be lying about at least some of it. On the other hand, much of what Hambali says is corroborated by the confessions of two of his closest associates.

Bashir bin Lap, a Malaysian known in radical circles as Lillie, studied to be an architect at Malaysia’s Polimas Polytechnic. But drawn by the lure of jihad, he made his way to Kandahar, Afghanistan, where he underwent basic military training in an al-Qaeda camp. There, Lillie said, he and three other men, including an old classmate from the polytechnic, Mohammed Farik bin Amin, swore allegiance to the al-Qaeda chief. Bin Laden, Lillie maintained, discussed the group’s commitment to Allah and told them their duty was "to suffer."

Hambali said he recruited the four members of the cell on behalf of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of 9/11 who was al-Qaeda’s military commander until his arrest in Pakistan in March. Mohammed told Hambali that the cell’s mission involved hijacking a plane, and instructed him to get in touch in Malaysia with an activist named Zaeni, whom Hambali knew had trained as a pilot. When Hambali did just that, Zaeni told him he was not prepared to carry out the mission. Hambali assumed Zaeni had changed his mind because he had small children. Later, according to Hambali, Zaeni was arrested in Malaysia. As far as Lillie knew, the operation was called off after the cell leader, Masran bin Arshad, was arrested.

For the past year, Hambali told his interrogators, almost all J.I. funding came directly from al-Qaeda, by way of Mohammed. Hambali added, with a touch of boastfulness, that he alone decided what to do with the $130,000 he received through June of this year. Hambali said an initial al-Qaeda outlay of $30,000 was used to fund the bombing a year ago of two nightclubs in Bali that left 202 dead. "Al-Qaeda was highly satisfied with the Bali bombing and as a result provided additional money" totaling $100,000, according to an interrogation report. Of the $45,000 allocated to J.I. in Indonesia, Hambali said, $15,000 was earmarked to support the families of the jailed Bali plotters. The remaining $30,000 was to be used for terrorist attacks. Hambali speculated that some of it was spent on the August attack on the Marriott Hotel in Jakarta that killed 12 people.

Hambali told his jailers that another recipient of his largesse was the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (M.I.L.F.), which is fighting for an independent Muslim state in the southern Philippines. The group denies that it has ties to J.I. or al-Qaeda, but Hambali and Lillie both described a transfer of some $27,000 to the M.I.L.F. this summer. Lillie said an M.I.L.F. contact reported by e-mail that the money would be spent on "cars and motorcycles," which were codes, Lillie indicated, for M-16s and pistols. Regional intelligence officials say J.I. operatives train in M.I.L.F.-protected camps, a point Hambali confirmed under interrogation.

Hambali’s interrogators say he told them it is "most likely a large number of members of J.I. Indonesia are hiding in the Philippines and supporting the M.I.L.F." U.S. Ambassador to the Philippines Francis Riccardone told journalists last week the U.S. was "very, very concerned" about links between J.I. and the M.I.L.F. He warned that unless the latter group severed those ties, the U.S. would cut M.I.L.F.-controlled areas out of the $30 million in aid the U.S. has pledged if secessionists sign a peace accord with Manila.

Hambali and his lieutenants were also charged with casing targets, including the U.S and British embassies in Bangkok, various nightclubs in Thailand and shopping complexes frequented by Westerners in the elite Makati district of Manila. Lillie said he did surveillance on two Israeli-owned businesses on or near Bangkok’s Khao San Street, the region’s most famous backpacker district, as well as on the ticket counter and airplanes of Israeli carrier El Al at the city’s airport. Hambali scouted the Israeli embassy and a synagogue in Manila. "The prisoner mentioned that Jewish targets were always the main priority," reads a report about Hambali.

One of the themes Hambali returned to repeatedly in his interrogation is the notion that J.I. is collapsing. He complained that the network is in a "very bad" state "because of those who had been captured," an interrogator wrote. "All the group’s savings has been lost to raids and arrests," Hambali claimed. J.I. had been virtually "destroyed." Many intelligence officials and analysts disagree, saying J.I. has been wounded but remains extremely dangerous. Hambali was probably "trying to steer his interrogators," argues Zachary Abuza, author of a forthcoming book on al-Qaeda in Southeast Asia, "trying to make them feel complacent."
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 10/06/2003 2:02:26 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6464 views] Top|| File under:

#1  How is Time getting copies of interrogation reports? Sounds like the FBI/CIA is leaking like a sieve...time to plug some holes
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 11:08 Comments || Top||

#2  There was a story about this a couple of weeks ago, the US is giving censored copies of interogation notes to various SEA countries that have a interest. This is all general background material in this story, details on names of contacts and the like are closely held. There was a story in a Thai paper where one of the Thai intel types was complaining the US was limiting the intel they were releasing. I'm sure that's where Time is getting their material.
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 11:39 Comments || Top||

#3  Or there is some useful dis-information in this report. Someone in al-Quaida may now be wondering what he did with the other $100000.

Posted by: john || 10/06/2003 11:46 Comments || Top||

#4  After a little squeeze, I bet he could do a fair rendition of Nights On Broadway by the Brothers Gibb.
Posted by: Superhose || 10/06/2003 14:47 Comments || Top||

#5  "Nights On Broadway by the Brothers Gibb."

I think that's what they are playing to make him talk.
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 15:04 Comments || Top||

#6  We should be spreading similar tales about any major bad guy we catch. They're all singing like canaries, stool pigeons, turning state's evidence. Increases the FUD* factor on the other side.

(*FUD-"fear, uncertainty, and doubt")
Posted by: Mike || 10/06/2003 16:32 Comments || Top||

#7  Mike---It's the FUDD factor we want to achieve:

Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt, Demoralization

ehhhhhhhhhhh. Be vewwy vewwy quiet. You can hear us inehwogating a vewwy nasty wahabbi....
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/06/2003 17:22 Comments || Top||

Home Front
FBI Sent Hamas Money in Clinton Days
While President Clinton was trying to broker an elusive peace between Israelis and Palestinians, the FBI was secretly funneling money to suspected Hamas figures to see if the militant group would use it for terrorist attacks, according to interviews and court documents.
If this is true, it's the most dumbass thing I've ever heard of the FBI doing. I tend to doubt it...
The counterterrorism operation in 1998 and 1999 was run out of the FBI’s Phoenix office in cooperation with Israeli intelligence and was approved by Attorney General Janet Reno, FBI officials told The Associated Press. Several thousand dollars in U.S. money was sent to suspected terror supporters during the operation as the FBI tried to track the flow of cash through terror organizations, the FBI said in a rare acknowledgment of an undercover sting that never resulted in prosecutions.
That's better. It's like putting dye into the system when you go to get CAT scanned...
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 10/06/2003 5:16:38 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6492 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is right! ro'Clinton definitely DID derelict his duty.
Posted by: Atrus || 10/06/2003 17:19 Comments || Top||

#2  I assumed that they used the Scientific Method in this little goatrope experiment..
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/06/2003 17:24 Comments || Top||

#3  Apparently, the intent of the operation was to determine if and how money flows into terrorist operations. If there's anything worth faulting, it's that the operation could not be maintained over a longer period of time so that more data could be gathered and analyzed.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/06/2003 17:26 Comments || Top||

#4  WTF is right -- you mean Janet Reno did something sensible?
Posted by: Steve White || 10/06/2003 19:05 Comments || Top||

#5  From the AP article:

Ellen testified the operation ended abruptly in early 1999 when he and Williams had a series of disagreements over the operation, disputes that began when Ellen angered the FBI by having an affair with a Chinese woman suspected of espionage.

What is it with Chinese women spies?!!
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 10/06/2003 19:24 Comments || Top||

#6  they "love you long time Joe"
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 20:34 Comments || Top||

#7  Oh god, it's that Phoenix office again. They are under investigation for agents setting up their own companies and doing business with China and the Middle East.
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 21:31 Comments || Top||

#8  Not that surprised by the allegation that Clinton gave money to hamas. Since we are on this topic, could someone enlighten me as to the the other allegation that Israel suported Hamas in the 70s and 80s, mainly to counterbalance Arafat's PLO and provide an alternative to the Palestinians. Have only seen some references to it, and please a balanced response would be appreciated.
Posted by: Igs || 10/06/2003 21:54 Comments || Top||

#9  It's true to an extent, but Hamas in the 70's and 80's was just the local branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. They were generally peaceful, although Islamist obviously, and were opposed to the PLO and the leftist elements within it.
It wasn't until the outbreak of the first Intifada in the late 80's that the Muslim Brotherhood decided that the time was right to begin using violence, and thus Hamas began initially attacking Palestinian 'collaborators' and Israeli soldiers. This was before Oslo was signed with the PLO.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 10/07/2003 0:25 Comments || Top||

Dick Lamm on Immigration. A surprising opinion from the left.
Read the whole article. But here are excerpts pertinent to homeland security:
We are also a nation of laws, with our own unemployed and underemployed, and our nation needs to come to some enforceable consensus on what our policy should be on people entering the country illegally.

1. We are a nation built on law. It almost sounds old-fashioned in contemporary America to ask that people obey the law. Illegal immigrants "jump the line."

2. As every house needs a door, every country needs a border. By turning a blind eye toward illegal immigration, we are encouraging countless numbers of these people to attempt to sneak into America. I spent a night with the Border Patrol in California, and was amazed to find people from India, Bangladesh, Iran, Egypt, Africa and China among the people detained.

3. Illegal immigration hurts America’s poor. Illegal immigrants compete for the jobs our own poor need to start to move up the economic ladder. "Mexican immigration is overwhelmingly unskilled, and it is hard to find an economic argument for unskilled immigration, because it tends to reduce wages for (U.S.) workers."

4. We are told that illegal immigration is "cheap labor," but it is not "cheap labor," it is subsidized labor. The National Academy of Sciences has found that there is a significant fiscal drain on U.S. taxpayers for each adult immigrant without a high school education. Illegal immigration is something that benefits a few employers, but the rest of us subsidize that labor through the school system, the health-care system, the courts and in other ways that this form of labor imposes. With school spending of more than $7,000 per student per year, even a small family costs far more than a low-wage family pays in taxes.

5. America is increasingly becoming, day by day, a bilingual country, yet there is not a bilingual country in the world that lives in peace with itself. No nation should blindly allow itself to become a bilingual-bicultural country. Today, when over 40 percent of today’s massive wave of immigrants is from Spanish-speaking nations, people can move to America and keep their language, their culture and their old loyalties. If the melting pot doesn’t melt, immigrants become "foreigners" living in America rather than assimilated Americans.

6. Our social fabric risks becoming undone. It is important to America’s future that we look at how Mexican immigrants are doing. Too many of our Hispanic immigrants live in ethnic ghettos. Too many are unskilled laborers, too many are uneducated, too many live in poverty, too many are exploited, too many haven’t finished ninth grade, too many drop out of school.
Former Reform Party presidential candidate and former Colorado Gov. Richard D. Lamm is co-director of the Center for Public Policy and Contemporary Issues at the University of Denver.
Posted by: ColoradoConservative || 10/06/2003 2:45:37 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6486 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ...there is not a bilingual country in the world that lives in peace with itself.

Somebody tell the Swiss (German, French, Italian, Romanche, and increasingly English). Or the Belgians (French, Dutch and German). Or the Canadians (French and English, and yes they are at peace). South African (English, Afrikanner, tribal languages) is more peaceful than not.

It IS possible to have a multi-lingual society and be at peace. In certain neighborhoods of Chicago, if you want the best kielbasa you'd better speak Polish. Immigrants to America bring their language and culture, and America is the better for it. There's little evidence that the melting pot isn't working -- the large majority of Hispanic immigrants (especially those under 30 years old) learn English. They melt in.

Gov. Lamm might have some good points, but the language issue isn't one of them.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/06/2003 15:05 Comments || Top||

#2  Also from the article:

But what is most disturbing is that second and third generations don't do much better. Again, the study from The Center for Immigration Studies: "The lower educational attainment of Mexican immigrants appears to persist across the generations." A recent report from the center shows that two-thirds of Mexican immigrant workers lack even a high school education; as a consequence, two-thirds of Mexican immigrant families live in or near poverty. The question has to be asked: By tolerating illegal immigration are we laying the foundations for a new Hispanic underclass? A Hispanic Quebec?

This lines up with the proposers of 'undocumented workers' rights claim that 'who else would do the dirty jobs which americans dont want to do?'. It seems to me that what these people want is not equality for immigrants (they can get that now by doing things legally) but to have a new 'lower class' of people (illegal / undocumented aliens) to cook their meals, washing their dishes, clean their houses, drive them around in their cars (drivers license) and dig their ditches. (I do not have a problem with people who do these necessary tasks (these are all honorable professions) but I do not want someone regulated or forced to doing these tasks because they are 'undocumented' or are not fully 'legal'.).

BTW: This guy makes some very valid points! I love it!
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/06/2003 15:19 Comments || Top||

#3  I've been wondering when anybody on the left is going to come to the awareness that illegal immigration is hurting their own causes. As the party that professes to support the downtrodden working classes, the Dems should know curbing illegal immigration will help fight unemployment (less competition for jobs) and raise wages (if an American won't do the job for pennies, there are no immigrants available to do it for pennies, and the position needs to be filled, then the wage will have to be made more attractive).

After all, isn't it evil Big BusinessTM that is profiting from such cheap, exploitable labor, whom the Dems hate?
Posted by: Dar || 10/06/2003 15:19 Comments || Top||

#4  Dems should know curbing illegal immigration will help fight unemployment (less competition for jobs) and raise wages (if an American won't do the job for pennies, there are no immigrants available to do it for pennies, and the position needs to be filled, then the wage will have to be made more attractive).

The Democrats have given up trying to win votes on real issues - that's way too tough. A much easier way to get these votes is to import immigrants from other countries who then get naturalized and vote overwhelmingly Democratic. Another way is to buy votes by expanding the number of government jobs and handouts. And of course, they can always "raise" wages by hiking the minimum wage.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/06/2003 16:15 Comments || Top||

#5  It IS possible to have a multi-lingual society and be at peace.

Only if there is a realization that the language of the U.S. - English - is of paramount importance. This is (and should be) the shared trait that keeps the nation together - a common language.

There's little evidence that the melting pot isn't working -- the large majority of Hispanic immigrants (especially those under 30 years old) learn English.

It's kind of difficult to avoid seeing Spanish just about everywhere in California. It's on billboards, ATM machines, phone trees (like the bank or utility customer assistance lines), printed matter, store signage, etc. Where is the incentive for someone to learn the language of their new home when institutions from A to Z keep coddling them with things in their native tongue? Toss in the propensity for a lot of Latinos both foreigners and American-born alike to look at things through a racial prism, and it only spells trouble.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/06/2003 16:26 Comments || Top||

#6  "As every house needs a door, every country needs a border."

This is a great slogan. Simple, but effective. One can write a treatise with this as a theme.

Thank you Gov. Lamm for having the maverick courage to buck the status quo on your side of the ideological spectrum. Both the Democrats and the Bush administration need to put the good of the nation above pandering to the mythical monolithic Hispanic vote.
Posted by: Right on || 10/06/2003 17:32 Comments || Top||

#7  SteveG

Belgian Flemish and Wallons are not at peace. During WWI Flemish apparently were used as cannon fodder (at least that is what they are telling to their youngesters), during WWII a lot of them were collaborationists, even enlisting in the SS. There is an increasing influence of people who preach downright hate towrd the other side. They still are not shooting at one another (same thing could be said about Croats and Serbs under Tito) but the rivalry between the two
communities leads to people being promoted or not depending not due to their capacities but for the need of linguistic balance, it leads to duplication of effort, it needs to countless problems who end in the Belgian state being one of the most inefficient in Europe (Remember the affair "Marc Dutroux"?). It even leads to traffic accidents when the (non-belgian) driver going to Liege doesn't pay attention to the panel telling next exit is Luyk, then the highway does in francophonic region, he sees "Liege" labelling the exit just there, he tries to change lanes and kaboom.

For Canada, I doubt it will survive another twenty years.

Posted by: JFM || 10/06/2003 17:33 Comments || Top||

#8  One wants to get ahead, one learns English.

Posted by: Anonymous || 10/06/2003 18:19 Comments || Top||

#9  ¿Quien es SteveG?

heh heh
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 19:55 Comments || Top||

#10  This is bigger than just Dick Lamm saying what he's always said about illegal immigration - it's published in the Rocky Mountain News, the mouthpiece of the Democratic Party in Colorado. That either indicates it's a mistake, and the paper will appologize to its subscribers tomorrow, or there's been a sea change in Denver politics (run by the Democratic machine).

Truth is, illegal immigration isn't just a border-state problem, but a problem all over this nation. The number of illegals involved in accidents and crime in Colorado has tripled since Dick Lamm was governor. The cost of illegals in California is tens of billions of dollars a year; here it's "only" a billion or so. There's also a significant tendency for anyone of Hispanic descent who gets promoted into a position of authority to try to bring on as many other Hispanics as possible so as to "feel more comfortable" in the job. Two of my wife's friends were turned down for jobs so that an Hispanic could be hired. One of the two hired was arrested a few weeks later for possession of cocaine. During the process the police learned that person had been in the US seven years illegally, and had a police record in five states and Mexico.

We have a problem. It's beginning to be a big problem. It's time to stop ignoring it.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/06/2003 20:35 Comments || Top||

#11  Somebody tell the Swiss (German, French, Italian, Romanche, and increasingly English). Or the Belgians (French, Dutch and German). Or the Canadians (French and English, and yes they are at peace). South African (English, Afrikanner, tribal languages) is more peaceful than not. It IS possible to have a multi-lingual society and be at peace.

Well, let's take this one at a time, Steve.

The most successful example you cite is Switzerland. Ever been there? I have. They practice a subtle form of aparthide. German speakers tend to remain in the German cantons, French in the French, and so on. Given that most cantons follow geographic lines (valleys separated by mountains), it's almost Yugoslavian in nature. In essence, Switzerland is several large ghettos that clumped together for mutual protection from the rest of Europe several hundred years ago, and continue on under one goverment mostly from inertia. People are born in one ghetto, live in one ghetto, stay in one, and eventually die in one. Switzerland actually HAS managed to pull off the oft-quoted slogan of pre-1960's Southerners.. "Seperate, but Equal"

The Belgians? They're undergoing a subtle civil war even as we speak. They do try to keep it quiet, but they have native terrorists. Granted, their idea of "terror" is along the lines of "Some flemish bastard flushed a tennis ball down the toilet! He's terrorizing us!" Low grade 'civil disobedience' of the 1960's sort, intended not to cause terror, merely annoyance and irritation. A bland and tasteless 'terror' for a bland and tasteless people. But they are NOT living together in peace.

Canada? As late as the mid-80's, the Free French Quebec movement was conducting a militant harrassment campaign, and even took to the streets with shotguns in an attempt to force traffic off the roads, hoping to pressure people into voting for a french Quebec.

This failed ONLY when local Indians announced that if Quebec could secede from Canada, they, the Indians, could secede from a French Quebec. And, given that they owned crucial portions of land that would pretty much cut Quebec off from the rest of the world by anything but air travel, the FFQ didn't like that much. But however loudly they bitched, they WERE stuck. If they seceeded, so did the Indians, and the rest of Canada could sit back and laugh.

THAT'S why you don't hear much of the Free French Quebec movement anymore. It's in a sort of checkmate. As long as the Native Americans hold the land they do, a Free Quebec is impossible. They WANT to fight, they just can't win without first killing off the tribes in question. Heh.

South Africa? Please. Tribal violence is at an all time high there. It's merely moved OUT of the cities and into the bush where it won't be reported as much. With AIDS spreading like a forrest fire, they NEED outside aid, but it won't come as long as people are being shot at while they try to render aid. So, in a WONDER of rare common sense, the warring factions have come to an informal agreement: "No killing where the world can SEE it. Gotta convince those doctors it's safe to come here. Let's go back into the JUNGLE and kick each other's asses, that way we won't scare the sissy aid workers."

That's about the size of the examples you've quoted, Steve. Multi-lingual societies that function WITHOUT using aparthide simply don't exist. They never have. It's merely that some of the societies that practice aparthide do so willingly, on BOTH sides, so no one complains.

Posted by: Ed Becerra || 10/06/2003 22:29 Comments || Top||

#12  Very interesting points, Ed B.
As to illegal immigration; just as only Nixon could go to China, only the Democrats can be the ones to propose stopping the illegals. If a Republican proposes it, he will be branded a rabid racist.
We need more moderate Dems to speak out, now!
Posted by: Uncle Joe || 10/07/2003 0:04 Comments || Top||

Heavy clashes reported along Israel - Lebanese border
JPost Reg Req’d
Heavy clashed between IDF forces and Hizbullah guerillas have been reported along the northern border.
Sounds like somebody's decided to cut the Gordian knot...
The clashes began after Hizbullah gunners opened fire on Israeli positions along the border close to Metula at 17:00 local time. IDF forces returned fire.
Surprise, surprise... Assad’s army fights back by proxy...again
An Israeli army spokesman, however, denied that Israel soldiers fired across the volatile border.
"Nope. Nope. Wudn't us. Musta been... ummm... somebody else."
"I can say no more"
According to media reports the IDF shelled targets in the village of Shuba near the Har Dov region. An officer from the UN Interim Force In Lebanon, a peacekeeping force that regularly sends arms munitions patrols along the Lebanese side of the border, said a UN water tanker truck was hit by three bullets. There were no injuries. Lebanese media have also reported Israeli attack helicopters in the area, who, according to reports, fired missiles at a motor convoy near the village of Khila in southern Lebanon. There have been no reports of injuries as of yet.
The IDF Spokesperson denied the Lebanese reports, calling them "baseless".
"All your base are belong to us"
One of the Lebanese vehicles fired on was pockmarked by bullets but apparently not seriously damaged, the security officials said. The Associated Press reports that Israeli soldiers yelled at reporters and Lebanese soldiers who arrived at the scene about an hour after the shooting and ordered them to leave the area.
Ohmigawd! They yelled at them! How brutal!
One of the Lebanese soldiers replied, "This is Lebanese territory. We are not leaving," according to an Associated Press reporter at the scene. Israeli soldiers shouted back in Arabic, "Go away before we shoot you," the reporter who witnessed the argument said.
Hokay...we’re outta here
Syria, which complained to the UN Security Council about Israel’s air raid on its territory, warned Israel of consequences. "Syria is not incapable of creating a resisting and deterring balance," Syrian Foreign Minister Farouk al-Sharaa warned in a letter to the United Nations.
"We can also create levers and fulcums... wanna see?"
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 2:28:34 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6468 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Syria is not incapable of creating a resisting and deterring balance

(Urban legend?)

It was almost exactly this time 30 years ago that 1 M60 was all that was running on the Golan Heights. But the Syrians were overmatched.
Posted by: Shipman || 10/06/2003 16:59 Comments || Top||

Middle East
Entire families wiped out by blast
Hat tip Little Green Footballs.
Bruria Zer-Aviv, 54, from Kibbutz Yagur, decided to end her Saturday excursion with her son, Bezalel, 30; his wife, Keren, 29; and their two children, Liran, 4; and one-year-old Noya with lunch at Haifa’s Maxim restaurant. Near their table sat journalist Mark Biano, 29, and his wife Naomi, 25. At another table were members of the Almog family. Moments later, these families, and others, were decimated.

Nineteen Israelis were murdered and more than 50 people were injured in Saturday’s suicide bombing attack at the crowded Haifa restaurant. Three children, a baby girl, four Israeli Arabs, a cook, the security guard and others were among the dead. Doctors at Haifa’s hospitals continued to fight through the night to save the lives of the seriously wounded, among them children. One of the injured was listed in critical condition.

"Never has there been such a disaster on the kibbutz," people at Kibbutz Yagur, northeast of Haifa, said after learning that five of the victims were members of the Zer-Aviv family.

Bruria, who had been living on Yagur since 1985, had accompanied her children on a shopping trip Saturday. When relatives on the kibbutz heard news of the bombing, they tried to contact the Zer-Avivs, but there was no answer on their mobile phone. They then drove to the Maxim restaurant in Haifa to look for them.

"Their car was parked in the parking lot of the restaurant, but the ambulances had already evacuated the injured," said a member of the kibbutz. "The family’s relatives started looking for them in the hospitals, and when they couldn’t find them, they realized that the worst had happened."

"We can’t take it in - an entire family wiped out in a moment," their neighbor, Benny Shilo said.

Col. (res.) Zeev Almog, former commander of the Israeli Navy’s officer training school in Akko, was having lunch with his family at the Maxim restaurant when the suicide bomber struck. Almog, 71; his wife, Ruth, 70; their son, Moshe, 43; and grandson, Tomer, 9: were killed. Almog’s daughter, Galit; Moshe’s wife, and two other grandchildren were injured in the blast.

Mark Biano was the municipal reporter for a Haifa cable newsmagazine. Two years ago he married Naomi, a computer instructor. Both were killed in the suicide bombing. On Thursday, Biano broadcast his last news report. He is survived by two parents and a sister.

Two of the victims were residents of Fassouta, a Christian village in the Upper Galilee. Hana Francis, 40, had worked as a waiter at the Maxim restaurant for about 10 years. Francis had only recently become engaged.

Sharbal Matar, 23, was Hana’s cousin and the nephew of the restaurant’s owners. He had been working at the restaurant for five years, Haaretz reported.

Matanes Karachbi, 31, a resident of an Arab neighborhood of Haifa, had worked at the restaurant for the last eight months as its security guard. "I know my brother served as a human shield," Karachbi’s brother said. "He saved the lives of many others. It doesn’t matter if one is Jewish, Christian or Muslim; we are all brothers." Karachbi, who married two years ago, is survived by parents and four brothers.

Also killed in the suicide bombing were Nir Regev, 25, from Nahariya; Osama Najar, 27, from Haifa; Zvi Bahat, 35, from Haifa; Irena Sofrin, 37, from Kiryat Bialik; and a ten-year-old boy whose name has not yet been released for publication.
I have absolutely no sympathy for the "Palistinians." They have yet to show one good reason they deserve an internationally recognized state.
Posted by: Atrus || 10/06/2003 1:46:46 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6473 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Where is the Media? When Israel went into Jenin awhile back the media could not wait to show the (planted) bodies or the funreal processions (where the 'stiff' would fall off and then climb back on again). Or the 'devastation' (a few destroyed buildings shown from several different angles).

Why aren't the relatives of these people being interviewed on the 'Today' show or 'Good Morning America' or Larry King?

When Israel even talks about removing Arafat the media (and the UN) gets into a feeding frenzy but when innocent children and infants are targetted and murdered they barely mention it.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/06/2003 14:39 Comments || Top||

#2  Oh, the media will show up... soon as Israel retaliates.
Posted by: tu3031 || 10/06/2003 15:23 Comments || Top||

#3  In response to the above statement of having no sympathy for the Palestinians;I would interject by saying that while the terrorists should get no mercy from lawful societies,but the people who committed no crimes should both be helped and left alone.Because the Palestinians like the Iraqis live in a dictatorship thus they been denied the freedoms of relgion, free speach,thought and trade.Thus We in America should take pity on the populace of the P.A. despite their current government's evil actions.I mention pity from America because history has taught attitudes change at times in a instance or over a period of years. From America's viewpoint at the begining our country's history to now great many people supported the French Revolution,slavery,forcable removal of Native Americans,Ku Klux Klan,American Nazi Party,Communist Party of the U.S. and America First Party.So who can say what the Palestinians will believe 50 years from now
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/06/2003 16:57 Comments || Top||

#4  Anonymous -- Fifty years ago, the Palestinians believed the same things they do now. Unless they are given a reason to change their beliefs, they will continue to believe them.

The US changed because we have positive ideals to work towards. The ideals of the Palestinians are murder, hatred, and violence -- they won't change unless the change is forced on them.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/06/2003 17:34 Comments || Top||

#5  Robert Crawford: you forgot genocide and tyranny.
Posted by: Atrus || 10/06/2003 17:36 Comments || Top||

#6  Those ideals were forced on the U.S population as a whole.By means of a civil war and being attacked by outside forces like the British and Japanese which caused the majority of people to work with each other
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/06/2003 17:59 Comments || Top||

When Rogues Defy Reason: Bashar’s Syria
by Max Abrahms Middle East Quarterly, Fall 2003
Very long analytical piece, well worth the time to read the whole thing. Here’s the "Ranter’s Digest Condensed Version:"
Even after the extraordinary U.S.-British military display of last spring, rogue states and terrorists continue to threaten U.S. national security. While this observation may seem prosaic, the White House predicted that victory in Iraq would convince our adversaries to fall into line, i.e., moderate their ways to avoid becoming the next U.S. target. It was a kind of domino theory in reverse. The original Cold War version of the domino theory held that if Vietnam went communist, the entire Asian continent would go Red. The Bush administration inverted the theory by contending that victory in Iraq would lead the rest of the Middle East to tumble in the United States’ political direction.
I don't think anyone ever went that far, at least not this early in the game. The long term trend is going to be in that direction, but we're only two steps down the road...
The problem with this latest version of the domino theory is that it flatly contradicts the logic of the preemption doctrine, the cornerstone of the Bush administration’s post-9/11 strategic policy. The domino theory is at odds with the preemption doctrine on the critical question of rationality. The policy of preemption presumes that terrorist organizations and rogue states by definition frequently do not engage in logical cost-benefit calculations (and for this reason cannot be deterred by U.S. threats).
That's why the diplos refer to them as "rogue states" and "terrorists." Here, we refer to them as lunatics, asshats, krazed killers, snuffies, gunnies, and fundos. We've observed on many occasions that there's no recognition of laws of cause and effect and they're not real sure about things like gravity...
The domino theory presumes the opposite: if the U.S. displays its might and resolve, its adversaries will restrain themselves and accept the pax Americana.
I think the basic idea is that even if they don't believe in cause->effect, repeated demonstrations might help them catch on. I don't have an awful lot of hope, either, but we'll have to see if it works. There are a few rational minds in the Muslim world. They're just likely to be bumped off when they open their mouths...
The war against Saddam Hussein, and the buildup that preceded it, have reinforced the logic of the preemption doctrine by highlighting that rogue states and terrorists frequently do not respond rationally to the prospect of U.S. military intervention. Saddam Hussein chose certain defeat over disarmament, even though the former also guaranteed the latter; Hizbullah and Hamas began threatening Washington in February, just as the Bush administration began to openly discuss whether these terrorist groups posed a danger to the United States.
You have to allow for repeated demonstrations. The Afghans defeated everybody from Alexander the Great onward, to hear the nay-sayers tell it. It took us a month to clobber them. Sammy told us in no uncertain terms — twice — that it wasn't going to be a cakewalk. We clobbered him in a month. Iran and Syria are making faces and saying this isn't going to be Iraq. Meanwhile, Sudan is saying something that roughly translates as "Don't kill me, please." Libya has decided they'd rather be Africans than an Arab terror state. Somalia is saying "We only kill each other, please don't kill us." Yemen is saying "See what good allies we are? We're cracking down — please don't kill us." And even Soddy Arabia is saying what great friends we've always been, it's all been a misunderstanding, and oh, by the way, please don't kill us. These states know we can take them apart in a month, where Syria and Iran are trying to talk themselves into believing we can't. Bush's policies are getting down to the core of unreason in the terror machine. Assuming we clobber Syria next, Iran's not going to make quite such fearsome faces. If we clobber Iran next, Syria will rediscover the joys of the multiparty state, as grudgingly as possible...
Perhaps the greatest example of irrational behavior is Syria. In marked contrast to its pro-U.S. stance during the 1991 Kuwait war, which dramatically improved its strategic position, this time Syria backed Iraq—even after U.S. victory was a foregone conclusion. Instead of trying to distance itself from regimes like Iraq, Syria went out of its way to irk the United States by siding with Saddam. In the words of one Middle East expert, Syria chose a "seemingly suicidal policy"; it "swam toward the sinking ship."
The driver there was that Bashar's more afraid of the terror machine the Syrians have helped create than he is of us. We're reasonable, we can be negotiated with; they're nuts...
The theoretical shortcomings of the domino theory, strikingly exemplified by Syria’s irrational foreign policy under President Bashar al-Assad, suggest that terrorists and rogue states will continue to be a menace.
The currents going to continue running for awhile, but with decreasing amplitude...
More importantly, this faulty assumption of rational enemies reminds us why the post-9/11 preemption doctrine is both a valid and indispensable policy option to thwart enemies who cannot be deterred.
He’s right, I think, about the utility of deterrence and "domino theory" persuasion vs. thugocracies like Kim’s North Korea, Assad’s Syria, and Saddam’s Iraq, but I think the "domino theory" is aimed, not at the thugs who rule these thugocracies, but the people imprisoned in them. The presence of a free, prosperous, democratic Iraq sends a message to the people of neighboring countries that there is something better available than the status quo. This undermines support for the Dear Leader/Father of the People/Ayatollah and hastens the fall, if only because the people are marginally less accepting of their lot in life. To continue:
At first it appeared that Syria recognized how to play the United States in the post-9/11 world. Following the terrorist attacks against America, Syria did provide some useful intelligence to U.S. authorities about al-Qaeda cells operating in Syria and Europe (though not as much as was widely reported). In response, the Bush administration rewarded Syria by excluding it from the "axis of evil" and stayed mum about its ongoing military occupation of Lebanon and election to the United Nations Security Council in October 2001. When Congress threatened to impose sanctions against Syria, the Bush team argued successfully against this punitive measure. In other words, Syria had recently reaped the fruits of supporting the United States in the war on terrorism. And even greater rewards awaited those governments that supported U.S. efforts to disarm the Iraqi dictator.
I don't think Bashar doubted he was on the list. We never did here. He also realized that as soon as Sammy went out of business, he was in trouble, even if we take no military action against him. Iraq ten years from now, assuming it develops as we expect here and that Bashar's Baathists continue in power there, is going to make Syria look like a rathole run by a junior-grade tin-hat. People will still be coming across the border in droves, but ten years from now they'll be looking for work. Same applies to Iran. They'll be coming from Soddy Arabia, too, though more for the hookers and booze, but that's just a difference in work ethic...
Yet Bashar not only decided against distancing himself from the pariah state, he went out of his way to highlight their proximity. While Syria grudgingly voted in support of United Nations Resolution 1441, giving Saddam one "final opportunity" to disarm or face "serious consequences" (legalese for war), within a week the Syrian foreign minister Farouq al-Sharaa abrogated this commitment. By late November, Bashar had become the face of opposition to the United States in the Arab world, regularly lambasting "American aggression" and "Zionist invaders."
He was playing to the terror machine, which was committed to Sammy...
Bashar’s anti-U.S., antiwar rhetoric was the exact opposite of that of his father during the previous clash with Saddam. And it had not been heard from Damascus since the buildup to the June 1967 Arab-Israeli war—Syria’s greatest blunder in modern history.
And now they've got another one in the making. It's a function of letting ideology influence your real thought processes...
Bashar did not reflect the Arab world so much as try to influence it, egging on moderate Arab states to join his effort to derail the impending war. True, Operation Iraqi Freedom did not have the overwhelmingly broad-based international support of Operation Desert Storm. But at a time when Syria should have underlined its differences from the "axis of evil" countries, such rhetorical support for Iraq highlighted—even bolstered—the impression that the two Baathist regimes were fraternal twins.
That can be put down to the need to strut for Hezbollah. Note what the Lebanese have been able to do to control Hezbollah, now in the process of dragging them into war with Israel. The Syrians, with a lot of help and even more money from Iran, built the Lebanon terror machine and had much to do with the development of the Paleo machines. But having built them, they've got a life of their own, and they're not subordinate — they've grown to become equal partners.
Syria’s prewar provocations would pale in comparison to its wartime conduct. Once Operation Iraqi Freedom began, Bashar did everything he could to place himself in the anti-U.S. camp. Prior to the war, Rumsfeld warned that interfering in the impending U.S. mission would be a "hostile act held accountable." Astonishingly, only one week into the mission, Rumsfeld reported, "We have information that shipments of military supplies are crossing the border from Syria to Iraq, including night-vision goggles 
 We consider such trafficking hostile acts and will hold the Syrian government accountable." The night-vision goggles allegation attracted the most media attention, but Syria was also found guilty of supplying Saddam with antitank weapons, aircraft parts, and ammunition, which could "pose a direct threat to the lives of coalition forces," as the defense secretary warned at the time.
Had the Syrians not done so, Hezbollah would have — and probably did...
This was just the beginning. In week two of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Assad dramatically upped the ante. He began allowing foreign jihadists to enter Iraq through Syrian territory.
A magnificently stoopid move on his part...
As a result, throughout the greater Baghdad region, thousands of "foreign irregulars"—trained and untrained—from Afghanistan, Algeria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Somalia now waged war against coalition forces. The largest busloads of jihadists were of Syrian origin, ensuring that if detected, Damascus would pay the highest price. Incredibly, Assad took no actions to conceal Syria’s aggressive conduct. Not only did cavalcades of buses stream into Iraq in early April, thousands of jihadists were caught in Iraq—carrying their Syrian identification cards.
One might even wonder if he's helping those who might pose a threat to his regime go off and fight the Merkins on the off chance they might all get killed...
. . . it is hard to see how Syria’s wartime conduct has made any positive contributions to Bashar’s regime. Many have argued that Syria’s support for Saddam was intended to preserve their unofficial oil pipeline. Yet this amount of revenue ($500 million a year) pales in comparison to the rewards Damascus would have received from an appreciative U.S. administration. Furthermore, because Bashar’s wartime stance never stood a chance of scuttling the war, Syria would have lost this easy (and illegal) oil revenue anyway. In sum, after Saddam, Bashar lost more from the war than any other leader—and any rational actor would have recognized this fact.
Posted by: Mike || 10/06/2003 1:34:26 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6471 views] Top|| File under:

Middle East
Egypt says Arafat removal would be "terrorist act"
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said on Monday if Israel expelled Palestinian President Yasser Arafat it would be a "terrorist act" condemned by the international community. Israeli calls to expel Arafat intensified after a Palestinian suicide bomb killed 19 people in Haifa two days ago, but Mubarak warned Israel of "grave consequences" if they went ahead and removed the Palestinian leader. "If Israel carries out its threat (to expel Arafat), it will not achieve its goal... this illegal act considered to be terrorist and condemned by the entire international community will not lead to anything but the promotion of a climate of violence and despair", Mubarak said.
Hosni, blowing up a restaurant full of people is a terrorist act. Tossing an international terrorist is self-defense. I don't think it should be done because it's been proved not to work — he tried to start a civil war in Jordan and they dumped him to Lebanon, which promptly collapsed into civil war...
Mubarak’s comments came in the text of an interview published by the official Middle East News Agency (MENA) to mark the 30th anniversary of the 1973 October War, when Egypt and Syria launched a surprise assault to regain territories lost to Israel in the 1967 Middle East War. Israel’s security cabinet decided in principle last month to "remove" Arafat after declaring him responsible for Islamic militant attacks on Israelis. Mubarak has previously criticised Israeli calls to exile Arafat many times, saying it would not serve the cause of peace.
what a shame that Sadat was killed. Hosni is a back-stabbing thug, and should be cut off from the $3 billion(?) a yr they receive.
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 1:18:13 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6471 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Take a look at the latest pictures of Arafat on the web. It looks like he has less than a year left, even without the Mossad involved!
Posted by: Greg || 10/06/2003 13:22 Comments || Top||

#2  Here is the link:
Posted by: Greg || 10/06/2003 13:24 Comments || Top||

#3  I already saw the picture on LGF last night. His lips look a little purple and he looks somewhat yellowish. I wonder if the IDF are allowing only certain foods to go through, starving him to death by lack of proper nutrition?
Posted by: Charles || 10/06/2003 13:35 Comments || Top||

#4  Arafart is a pimple on the a$$ of humanity, and richly deserves to be "popped". That said, I don't think Israel should be the one to do it. I believe some "secret" group that's both capable and willing to put a very large bomb under Arafart's headquarters, and detonate it, handle it, with plausible denyability for both the US and Israel. I have no doubt that such people exist, and that enough cash could see the job done. Today would be good, tomorrow almost as good. If the 'fish' is still alive by next Friday, the next terrorist attack should see him and all his "brotherhood" whacked hard, heavy, and continuously until the Palestine Authority becomes nothing but a shattered memory. THEN ululations may begin!
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/06/2003 14:02 Comments || Top||

#5  From the looks of the Arafish right now, I say that Israel's psyops plan™ is working slowly but well. Physical deteoration will probably accelerate with additional pressure. Why spear the Fish when keeping him in the tank without a bubbler will do. If his condition gets so bad that he needs a medivac, then it is self-exile. He is almost neutralized, a little patience is all. If he goes Tango Uniform because of his ailments, Israel will be blamed, but who cares? Maybe this is Israel's Fish Plan. However, if another attack comes, then I agree with OP and the fish will get a DuPont Spinner and that will be the end of it.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/06/2003 17:03 Comments || Top||

Bush Asserts Israel’s Right to Defense
Translation: Syria can go pound sand, and Arafat’s boy isn’t fooling anyone
President Bush declined to criticize Israel Monday for its air strike inside Syria, saying Israel "has got a right to defend herself." But Bush also said he had cautioned Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to try to avoid escalating tensions in the region. Bush decried the "needless murder" of 19 people in a suicide attack by a Palestinian militant group in Israel on Saturday that led to the Israeli attack on a suspected terrorist camp in Syria. Bush said that the Palestinian Authority must do more to fight terror and "must use whatever means is necessary .... All parties must assume responsibility."

Bush commented after the new Palestinian prime minister, Ahmed Qurei, said he hopes to negotiate a quick truce with Israel, but won’t use force against Palestinian militants under any circumstances - despite U.S. demands for a clampdown on armed groups. The president was asked if he could work with a prime minister who would not use force against militants. "We have not changed...the parties need to assume responsibility for their action in order for there to be peace," he replied.

During a White House news conference with Kenyan President Mwai Kibaki, Bush said that he had spoken with Sharon on Sunday. "I made it very clear to the prime minister that...Israel’s got a right to defend herself, that Israel must not feel constrained in terms of defense of the homeland," he said. However, Bush added, "I said that it’s very important all action should avoid escalation creating higher tensions."
Couched in all the diplotalk is the fact that we aren’t going to stop Israel from defending themselves in any manner that we would use ourselves. Expect to hear Paleos and Arabs seethe and whine over the lack of evenhanded (read Carteresque) treatment
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 12:46:42 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6474 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Good! I like this message. I know most of the previous hamstringing of Israel has been to appease the Arabs until Iraq is back on its feet, but it's been pure hypocrisy to expect Israel to sit on their thumbs while the Pals keep killing and maiming their citizens and we take out the garbage in Aghanistan and Iraq.
Posted by: Dar || 10/06/2003 13:02 Comments || Top||

#2  Bush Transalation: We support Isreal and even support the move, but we have to double talk and critisize her for our 'Muslim' allies.

Bush support's Isreal 100%. It's just he can't outright say " @$#@ the PA and Syria " because of diplomatic tensions. Right now we need the 'allies' we have in the ME, and this is what we have to do to keep them.
Posted by: Charles || 10/06/2003 13:20 Comments || Top||

Interview with Syrian Dictator
EFL. Hat tip LGF
Syrian dictator tyrant president Bashar Al-Assad, in an interview on September 30, 2003 with the Italian daily newspaper Il Corriere della Sera, discussed his country’s role in Iraq, its complex relationship with the U.S., the ’road map,’ weapons of mass destruction, and human rights in Syria. The following are excerpts from the interview which was conducted by Antonio Ferrari:
Question: "The U.S.A. keeps accusing you of destabilizing Iraq, of sending fighters, of hiding weapons of mass destruction. The list of allegations is becoming long and dangerous. Do you not fear that your country will become the target of the next war?"
Al-Assad : "I do not think that the U.S. has an interest in repeating the errors committed in Iraq. Apart from the accusations [of some in the U.S., not of the entire U.S. administration], we had no tangible signals of a military threat. Worried? Yes, we are. Not by the threats but by the results of the war in Iraq which had serious repercussions in the political, economic, social, and security spheres. Furthermore, the accusations against Syria began before the conflict. You see, our relationship with the U.S. has several dimensions: positive, as in fighting terrorism together; problematic, when we talk of Palestinian organizations or how to reach peace."
"But they have this satanic idea that Jews have the right to live."

Question: "The U.S. also accuses you of producing prohibited weapons."
Al-Assad : "Immediately after the war, they began to talk about weapons of mass destruction in Syria. The answer is in the UN Security Council where a draft resolution to free the entire Middle East from prohibited weapons is pending. Our detractors are angry with us; they accuse us of possessing these weapons. But they were even angrier when we proposed, months before the war, to eliminate them from the whole region. What then do they want? We say: faced with an international written commitment, Syria would be extremely swift to make this effort a success. But the obligation must apply to all, without exception."
"Not all; only those who are so infidelic that they don’t enslave their people"

Question: "If you were meeting President Bush, what would you say to convince him that the allegations against Syria are false?"
Al-Assad : "He should explain to me why these allegations are true. I would then ask him where the weapons of mass destruction are in Iraq, because at this point it is clear that they do not exist. Even in the States there are institutions that openly doubt it. Then I would ask him where the democracy was that he had promised Iraq, and where the better living conditions are that were pledged. Many Iraqis, beginning with Saddam’s opponents, tell us that the situation today is far worse than under the former regime. So, it is the U.S. and not us that have to answer to precise allegations. Furthermore, no country, under any pretext, would get involved in another war in the region."

Question: "Despite American allegations, you express the desire to contribute to the reconstruction of Iraq. What would you answer if you were asked to send a military contingent?"
Al-Assad : "We must make a distinction between sending troops and participating in the reconstruction. And then differentiate between reconstruction and the restoration of Iraqi sovereignty. Some talk about the reconstruction of Iraq as if it were a free zone for investment projects. The first role that Syria could have is to help re-establish Iraq’s independence. But our involvement should be in response to the desires and will of the Iraqi people. If that was the case, we are ready. With any means."
"The Iraqis’ opinion needs to be reshaped into one that supports enslavement of the common man, dehumanization of the comman woman, and dictation of thought."
Posted by: Atrus || 10/06/2003 12:46:09 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6465 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Not by the threats but by the results of the war in Iraq which had serious repercussions in the political, economic, social, and security spheres.

Meaning of course that a free and democratic Iraq with equality for everyone regardless of religion, gender, or nationallity. Under a free and open market would prove how backwards and depostic his, and his fellow 'presidents', really are.

Syria, and the other nations around Iraq do not want a democratic Iraq. Their young people, who do not have any future in their kingdoms where everything is regulated and controlled, would flock to a Iraq where they can be free and live their lives in peace (as well as 'make a living for themselves').
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/06/2003 13:17 Comments || Top||

#2  Some questions and answers I would like to have heard:

"President Assad, have you decided whether to spit or go blind?"

"Such a delicate decision can only be made in consultation with the United Nations. I'm a big believer in the international rule of law, you know."

"President Assad, are you aware that international law prohibits the torture of political prisoners?"

"Get outta here! I guess I'm going to have to brush up on the fine points. But one thing I know is that the US and Israel can't attack me without UN approval, that's for sure."

"President Assad, what would happen if they attack anyway?"

"Well, Minister deVillepin assures me that he would become very angry. Not just annoyed, you understand, but very, very angry. He might even dispatch the deGaulle to the Eastern Mediterranean. Provided the American Navy agreed to give it safe passage, of course."

"President Assad, do you know what happens when a depleted uranium shell from an M1A2 hits a T-62?"

"Hah! I have been assured by the finest military experts in Russia that nothing would happen, other than perhaps a slight vertical displacement of the turret."

"President Assad, did you know that your office staff has set up a 'When is Boy Gonna Get Capped' betting pool?"

"That is a vicious lie!"

"I hope not, because my camaraman and I each put a fiver on December 1."
Posted by: Matt || 10/06/2003 13:56 Comments || Top||

#3  For some unknown reason, every time I see Bashar Assad's face, the name "Heinrich Himmler" pops into my head.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 10/06/2003 14:40 Comments || Top||

#4  ^5s Matt! Much better than the real interview.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/06/2003 16:04 Comments || Top||

#5  Bomb-a-rama: you are dead on concerning the Himmler look - forehead, eyes, weak chin - it all works. Make you wonder...
Posted by: borgboy || 10/06/2003 17:36 Comments || Top||

Middle East
UN split on Israeli attack on Syria
And just what were you expecting?
Despite Syrian demands for immediate condemnation of an Israeli air strike near Damascus, the UN security council adjourned last night without a vote. The meeting broke up after the US objected that the Syrian resolution failed to condemn Palestinian terrorism.
"Um, yeah, Microsoft Word (Arabic edition) doesn’t have the right words for that in the thesaurus."
At an emergency meeting called at Syria’s request yesterday, most security council diplomats spoke out against the Israeli attack on a purported terrorist training camp near the Syrian capital. The diplomats also condemned the suicide bombing in the Israeli port city of Haifa that killed 19 people and prompted Israel’s retaliation. Syrian ambassador Fayssal Mekdad, the council’s only lying Arab member, urged his colleagues to adopt the resolution condemning the "military aggression carried [out] by Israel against the sovereignty and territory" of Syria. The document also demands that Israel stop acts "which might lead to a dangerous deterioration that threatens regional and international peace and security."
"As opposed to Syrian acts which threaten regional and international peace and security."
However, the US ambassador to the UN, John Negroponte, focused his condemnation on the Haifa attack, while blaming Syria for harbouring terrorists. "The United States believes that Syria is on the wrong side of the war on terrorism," he said. "We believe it is in Syria’s interest, and in the broader interest of Middle East peace, for Syria to stop harbouring and supporting the groups that perpetrate acts such as the one that occurred yesterday" in Haifa.
At which point Fayssal called out to his aide, Fatimah, for his pills.
Yesterday’s attack was the first Israeli strike deep within Syria since the 1973 Yom Kippur war, and it alarmed other Middle Eastern nations. The Arab League said the bombing "exposes the deteriorating situation in the region to uncontrollable consequences, which could drag the whole region into violent whirlpool."
And it also demonstrates the reach of the Israeli Air Force. That’s got to worry them.
Mr Negroponte indicated that the US broadly opposed the text of a draft resolution submitted by Syria and questioned why it made no mention of the Haifa attack. "It’s just incredible to me that in the wake of an event like that, that a draft resolution coming from a delegation of the council would have no reference whatsoever to this dastardly act," he told reporters after the session. "Another resolution on the Middle East is not what is needed." Mr Negroponte, the 15-member council’s president for October, has not scheduled another meeting to discuss the Syrian draft, saying diplomats needed time to consult with their governments.
"Actually, we think the time could be better spent drinking beer..."
The US has regularly used its veto to block resolutions condemning Israel, its close ally. The US position is that resolutions must roundly condemn all forms of terrorism. Mr Negroponte did not say whether the US would exercise the veto power it wields as one of five permanent members. Another diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity, said discussions were continuing and no one had threatened a veto. The Israeli ambassador, Dan Gillerman, however, defended the air strike as "an act of self-defence" within the law. "Syrian complicity and responsibility for suicide bombings is as blatant as it is repugnant," he said. "For Syria to ask a debate in this council is comparable only to the Taliban calling for such a debate after 9/11."
I think that's a misquote. I heard it on the teevee live (and subsequently on tape) and he said it would be akin to Osama bin Laden having called for a security council meeting after 9-11...
Mr Gillerman also expressed anger that the meeting was called just before the holiest Jewish holiday, Yom Kippur, and left the council after his speech to observe the holiday. Israel is not a security council member. French ambassador Jean-Marc de La Sabliere called the airstrike "an unacceptable violation of international law."
Well, it’s not as if the French would do anything about it.
Anybody got an example of an acceptable violation of international law?
Russian ambassador Sergey Lavrov said it "might lead to more dramatic and tragic consequences, both for the very tense situation in the region, as well as for the international state of security as a whole."
Maybe it's time to cut the Gordian knot...
The British ambassador, Emyr Jones Parry, called the air strike "unacceptable," but also sounded a more sympathetic note. "We have to recognise that terrorists are continuing to attack Israel and are being permitted to do so," he said. Still, "Israel should not allow its justified anger at continuing terrorism to lead to actions that undermine both the peace process and we believe Israel’s own interests." Pakistan’s ambassador Munir Akram urged the council "to speedily adopt the decision to condemn this military aggression and to uphold the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Syrian Arab Republic."
After which he muttered something about having done his duty and left the Syrians to them own problems.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/06/2003 11:43:21 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6474 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "We demand that the Israelis quit exposing our air defenses as worse than useless"

wonder how many heads rolled in Damascus? Bet it was more than one...heh heh
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 11:59 Comments || Top||

#2  The document also demands that Israel stop acts "which might lead to a dangerous deterioration that threatens regional and international peace and security."

In other words, "You have no right to live!"

When's that Rutgers Kill-the-Jews-fest, BTW?
Posted by: Atrus || 10/06/2003 12:29 Comments || Top||

#3  Mr Negroponte, the 15-member council’s president for October, has not scheduled another meeting to discuss the Syrian draft, saying diplomats needed time to consult with their governments.


Damned bureaucrats. ;>

Nice timing on the IAF's part, it seems...
Posted by: mojo || 10/06/2003 12:32 Comments || Top||

#4  No! Go for the kill, Negroponte! Show them for the biased A-holes that they really are! Although, for the French, this will just give them more time to screw up....
Posted by: Charles || 10/06/2003 13:26 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Gov. Gray Davis is an "office batterer"
Since at least 1997, the LA Times has been sitting on information that Gov. Gray Davis is an "office batterer" who has attacked female members of his staff, thrown objects at subservients and launched into red-faced fits, screaming the f-word until staffers cower.
I read this a couple days ago. I remember the use of the word "subservients" instead of "subordinates."
I published a lengthy article on Davis and his bizarre dual personality at the now-defunct New Times Los Angeles on Nov. 27, 1997, as well as several articles with similar information later on. The Times was onto the story, too, and we crossed paths. My article, headlined "Closet Wacko Vs. Mega Fibber," detailed how Davis flew into a rage one day because female staffers had rearranged framed artwork on the walls of his office. He so violently shoved his loyal, 62-year-old secretary out of a doorway that she suffered a breakdown and refused to ever work in the same room with him. She worked at home, in an arrangement with state officials, then worked in a separate area where she was promised Davis would not go. She finally transferred to another job, desperate to avoid him. He left a message on her phone machine. Not an apology. Just a request that she resume work, with the comment, "You know how I am."
"He was a loner..."
Another woman, a policy analyst, had the unhappy chore in the mid-1990s of informing Davis that a fund-raising source had dried up. When she told Davis, she recounted, Davis began screaming the f-word at the top of his lungs. The woman stood to demand that he stop speaking that way, and, she says, Davis grabbed her by her shoulders and "shook me until my teeth rattled. I was so stunned I said, ’Good God, Gray! Stop and look at what you are doing. Think what you are doing to me!"’
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/06/2003 11:31:52 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6482 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I also like the one where Clinton jumps on Dick Morris and chokes him until Hillary stops the tussle.
Posted by: Superhose || 10/06/2003 13:00 Comments || Top||

#2  Davis only batters women. Barney Fife could kick his scrawny ass
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 14:13 Comments || Top||

#3  Someone should shoot a copy of this over to the commies at Counterspin Central.
Posted by: Stickman || 10/06/2003 15:30 Comments || Top||

#4  Hmm… any rage from women's groups?

Posted by: Atrus || 10/06/2003 16:15 Comments || Top||

#5  Election's tomorrow...
Posted by: Fred || 10/06/2003 16:46 Comments || Top||

#6  If I had sex with a young intern, I'd be fired so fast! If I assaulted a staff member, I'd be out the door so fast, my head would spin.

The Dem leaders certainly live in Animal World- the pigs are far more equal than the others.
Posted by: Craig || 10/06/2003 16:47 Comments || Top||

#7  The thing that most bothers me currently about Davis is his backing of legislation giving illegals driver's licenses. I think that an absolute outrage. These people are in this country illegally. When will this practice be stopped?
Posted by: Right on || 10/06/2003 17:58 Comments || Top||

#8  Right on,

This is Davis's way of trying to win the 'hispanic' vote and/or give the (de-facto via motor-voter) vote to illegal aliens.

Of course he is pissing off everyone else but doesn't seem to care as long as he can fling 'poop' at his opponents.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/06/2003 19:00 Comments || Top||

#9  The driver's licenses for illegals more than anything else will cost Davis this election. It's far more of a "neutron bomb" than any of the slime he's been throwing in this election. Very few commentators have picked up on the incredible anger in California about that law, even fewer have noticed that Arnold, and McClintock's, support started to skyrocket after that law was signed. They think it was the debate. It wasn't. It was this fiasco.
Posted by: R. McLeod || 10/07/2003 0:36 Comments || Top||

Defectors From the North
Embassy Wilts Under Refugee Crush
by Si Dong (sdyeo@chosun.com)

BEIJING - The Korean Embassy in Beijing said Monday that it would suspend its civil affairs services from Tuesday because of a surge in the number of North Korean defectors staying at its consular section and preventing it from doing its job.
The consul’s civil services, like issuing entry visas and passports, will be temporarily taken over by Korean consulates in other Chinese cities such as Shenyang for the time being. Still, the Beijing consul said that it would continue to handle civil affairs not going through the civic affairs office, such as accidents and incidents involving Korean residents in China.If you have too many defctors maybey it is not PARIDISE

Because the suspension of civic services is expected to last for more than a week, inconveniences are predicted for Chinese and other foreigners seeking to obtain Korean entry visas in Beijing. Korean residents there will also face obstacles when they try to get consul services related to passports and military services.Stop it, you make us look bad

North Korean defectors have continued to penetrate into the Korean Consul in Beijing since May of 2002; about 400 people of them have found their way into South Korea from there via third countries. But about 100 defectors are still staying at the consul, seeking ways to come to the South. The consul has held scores of negotiations with the Chinese government so far to send these North Koreans out to third countries. What’s wrong with Paridise

Relatedly, it was confirmed on Monday that Chinese authorities had told public security agencies across the country at the end of last month to aggressively ferret out North Korean defectors. Security agencies began an intensive crackdown on the refugees from the beginning of this month. We gotta stop this

According to a public security official in Yanji, a city in the ethnic Korean-Chinese region of Yanbian in Jilin Province, a national convention of public security officials was held at the end of September in Beijing, and instructions were delivered to each security agency nationwide to round up North Korean defectors aggressively while stamping out other general crimes.
Your Giving Paridise a Bad Name
The official said the measure was designed to prevent a massive influx of defectors during the winter and to hunt up those who are already in China.

Posted by: Michael || 10/06/2003 10:35:13 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6476 views] Top|| File under:

#1  OK, so not directly on article-topic, however...

How many more reports like this must one read before realizing just how good we have it living in the greatest, freest country on Earth? Perhaps ever!

You whiners (you know who you are) are pathetic! Less bitching and moaning. More counting your fucking blessings.
Posted by: Hyper || 10/06/2003 21:39 Comments || Top||

Home Front
A Democratic operative is behind part of the Times’ latest story
I can just see the Cal DNC hands all over this:
The L.A. Times has a story Saturday about three more women who allege that gubernatorial front-runner Arnold Schwarzenegger engaged in sexual misconduct over the years. Schwarzenegger, on his bus tour north of Fresno, said charges in the story "are absolutely untrue."
(or mostly untrue)
The Times maintains that none of the women came forward at the behest of Schwarzenegger’s opponents. That claim, however, is looking increasingly dubious. One of the three women in the story says she came forward at the urging of Jodie Evans, described by the Times as a peace activist and "co-founder of the women’s peace group Code Pink." At best, this is an incomplete, misleading description.
(Anyone surprised?)
Me! Me! I am!... Uhhh... No. Sorry. That was gas.
Here’s what the newspaper should have said about Evans. She is actually a former close colleague of Gov. Gray Davis, a longtime Democratic operative and a friend of noted Democratic hit man Bob Mulholland. Evans is also the ex-wife of Westside financier Max Palevsky, the man who gave Gray Davis his first job in politics as the fund-raiser in Tom Bradley’s 1973 mayoral campaign.
(Yes it gets better..err deeper:)
Oops! Someone should have told John Carroll, the Times editor and anti-bias crusader.
(Carroll wouldn’t know the truth if it pinched his ass)
Or grabbed him by the shoulders and shook him until his teeth rattled...
Evans worked closely with Davis in the administration of Gov. Jerry Brown. While Davis served as Brown’s chief of staff, Evans was Brown’s chief fund-raiser and director of administration in the governor’s office. Why didn’t the Times give an accurate description of Evans, who has pushed at least one woman to come forward with last-minute charges? On the campaign bus outside Fresno just now, I asked veteran Times columnist George Skelton, who acknowledges the reality of Evans’ deep ties to Davis and the Democrats, why the Times described her so disingenuously. "Maybe the reporters and editors just didn’t know," he says.
Maybe I still have all my hair, too.
The Times is presenting itself authoritatively on these matters. If the Times doesn’t know where the stories are coming from, what else does it not know? If the Times is not ignorant about these connections, that is a whole different kettle of fish.
Either incompetent or partisan...
(oh they knew they were not concerned about the truth)
As most Californians know by now, Davis is the Dark Overlord champion of negative campaigning and has nearly perfected the strategy of last-minute allegations breaking in the final days of the campaign. It should not be surprising to Times Mirror Square that his fingerprints appear on at least the latest story.
I thought after the last election it could not get any sleazier in California politics. I guess I was wrong. Rather than being ’turned off’ by the latest charges, many have become weary of the mud-slinging by the Davis crowd. Rather than address issues, Davis is looking for a ’silver bullet’ to kill Arnolds campaign. On the other hand there is still OVERWHELMING support for the recall and Arnold still has a 10-point lead over Cruz. I will vote early and often so that we can rid ourselves of this guy forever!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/06/2003 10:34:58 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6488 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Well, with thesa accusations against Arnold, Bustamante ro'Bustamante just might win, I'm afraid.
Posted by: Atrus son of Gehn || 10/06/2003 10:51 Comments || Top||

#2  not a chance - worst case is Davis stays in office. Just signed a bill (SB2) requiring businesses with 20 or more employees to provide health insurance. The businesses that don't flee the state will fire everyone and make them all independent contractor employees...The Dems in the legislature are socialist idiots who are running the state into the ground
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 11:00 Comments || Top||

#3  The more I see of California, the more clear it becomes that the Democratic Party is the largest single problem in this nation. My wife and I worked for a private psychological treatment facility as foster parents. One of the bonuses of working there were 'classes' given by the staff, including TWO prime psychiatrists and experts on child behavior. They taught us how to identify certain psychological traits that were serious liabilities for the children that had these traits. One of them was the "control freak" - a person that had to control everything in their lives, including the people around them. The Democratic Party is the poster child for this condition. It's also the diametric opposite of personal freedom, which we're supposed to revere in this nation.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/06/2003 11:17 Comments || Top||

#4  What I love are the claims the Davis campaign had nothing to do with the stories, the Times learned about this stuff from the Premier magazine article.

Well the Premier magazine article came out when Arnold was mulling the possibility of running for governor in the last election. I'm pretty sure the Davis people leaked the story then. It looks like the Times simply isn't looking for anything that might damage their boy Grey.
Posted by: Yank || 10/06/2003 11:29 Comments || Top||

#5  Davis couldn't run a clean election if he were the only one on the ballot.
Posted by: Dishman || 10/06/2003 11:54 Comments || Top||

#6  Strange how adultery and molestation seemed ok a few years ago when Clinton ( a sitting President sworn to uphhold the consitution ) was lying under oath but now it is 'unforgivable'.....

Where was Code Pink (and the others) when Clinton was impeached? As I recall the Times was _very quick_ to dig up dirt on Clinton's accusers...
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/06/2003 12:16 Comments || Top||

#7  Code Pink's hypocracy is nothing compared to Moveon.org which was founded to defend Clinton from sex charges and is now attacking Arnold for sex charges.

Fact is most people have already made their decision on Arnold and the groping charges that came out over 2 years ago are already factored in. That is why the polls didn't really budge as a result of this. Arnold warned there would be smears coming out and everyone in California expected something new, something a little better, a little more distasteful.

The LA times will probably be hurt by this more than Arnold.
Posted by: Yank || 10/06/2003 13:05 Comments || Top||

#8  The LA Times has already had over a thousand subscription cancellations by their own admission
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 13:12 Comments || Top||

#9  The LA Times has already had over a thousand subscription cancellations by their own admission

So now's their cue to shriek "McCarthyism"?
Posted by: Atrus || 10/06/2003 13:16 Comments || Top||

#10  I want Bustamante to win. He's already pledged to soak the rich and businesses with more taxes which will result in an emigration of these "job-producers" out of California and to my state and others.

California's loss will be my state's gain.
Posted by: ColoradoConservative || 10/06/2003 14:47 Comments || Top||

#11  California's loss will be my state's gain.

Only when economic prosperity becomes a zero sum game.
Posted by: Superhose || 10/06/2003 15:24 Comments || Top||

#12  Only when economic prosperity becomes a zero sum game.

Actually, it works pretty well. My home state, New York, hasn't had net population losses, but hasn't grown in headcount since WWII. Connecticut and New Jersey benefitted from the population outflow.

California is an important state, but just like the Empire State, its importance can gradually dissipate without the national economy being affected. Note that its most productive denizens are moving to other states, where they are presumably engaged in the professions in which they were trained.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/06/2003 16:23 Comments || Top||

#13  Californians can recall The Gray Davis, but they can't recall the L.A. Time...
Posted by: Fred || 10/06/2003 18:53 Comments || Top||

#14  Of course, there's always the possibility of the Democrats trying to pass a "no-flee" law. Under it, you'd be required to remain in California, or pay a fine for closing your company and moving it to another state, said fine to be equal to the profits you'd make in the new state.

"I'm sorry, sir, but your business STARTED in California, and you will still pay California income taxes on it, no matter where you move it to."


"Not in California, sir. Best of luck, and be advised that America WILL become a democratic socialist nation. Get used to it."

Posted by: Ed Becerra || 10/06/2003 22:41 Comments || Top||

Middle East
Report: Arafat orders arrest of top Jihad Islamic leaders
Palestinian President Yasser Arafat was reported Monday to have ordered the detention of the top leaders of the Islamic Jihad in Gaza City. Lebanon’s Al Mustaqbal newspaper quoted Palestinian sources as saying Sheikh Abdullah Al Shami and Mohammed Al Hindi were among the leaders Arafat ordered the Palestinian police to arrest.
I’ll believe it when I see it, but just having the rumor on the street should be good for laughs.
The newspaper added that the order came one day after the suicide bombing attack, which was carried out by the Islamic Jihad in a Haifa restaurant and killed 19 people.
"Hey, everytime you guys boom some Jews, I get the blame!"
Posted by: Steve || 10/06/2003 9:33:08 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6465 views] Top|| File under:

#1  One shot one kill. Come on, IDF. Put Arafat out of business.
Posted by: badanov || 10/06/2003 9:47 Comments || Top||

#2  detention? clean erasers after school? write 100 times - I will not kill Arab bystanders while booming Jooos?
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 10:10 Comments || Top||

#3  "Detention" by Ueber-Terrorist Arafat would amount to an attempt to protect them from the IDF. I reckon Arafat has about 24h left in his rathole, no matter what he tries to do.

Wrt yesterday's intervention in Syria, I haven't seen any comments about how seemingly casually the Israeli air force can fly into Syria, bomb a target of their choice, and return home... I guess THAT must be rather worrying to sundry Arab dictators and terrorist leaders, wherever they might "hide."
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 10/06/2003 10:11 Comments || Top||

#4  Was is this even news? Arafat only 'arrests' these leaders, but lets them continue to plan activities. badanov has the right idea, one shot. I have to ask the question WHY has it taken this long?
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/06/2003 10:41 Comments || Top||

#5  I keep thinking that the the raid on Syria is related to this:


than to the Haifa bombing. We have not seen the end of this cycle yet.
Posted by: john || 10/06/2003 11:35 Comments || Top||

#6  Arafish is worried that he might be killed. So what action should you take? Bring in the IJ leaders ( Notice no Hamas leaders ) in order to attract their gun-weilding followers.

Arafish just wants more gaurds around himself.
Posted by: Charles || 10/06/2003 13:30 Comments || Top||

#7  This might work if their jails didn't have revolving doors.
Posted by: logiccop || 10/06/2003 16:27 Comments || Top||

Africa: East
Somali Gunmen Kill Italian Aid Worker
An award-winning aid worker, nicknamed the Mother Teresa of Somalia, has been shot dead in the breakaway northern enclave of Somaliland, officials said on Monday. Annalena Tonelli, 60, who came from Italy, was visiting a ward for tuberculosis patients in Borama General Hospital late on Sunday when two men walked in and one shot her twice in the head.
"A nun! I shot a nun! Can I have my jeweled turban now?"
Tonelli, who ran the 200-bed hospital, won the U.N. refugee agency (UNHCR) annual humanitarian award in April for her work with displaced Somalis.She had worked in Somalia for 33 years. Her clinic was set up to fight tuberculosis, raise awareness on HIV/AIDS and the harmful effects of female genital mutilation. Tonelli, who also worked in northern Kenya, founded a school for the deaf in Borama where she was also planning to establish a school for the blind.
Too bad she didn't found a school for the religiously impaired...
A lawyer by training, Tonelli, who lived a simple life said she had known since the age of five that she wanted to dedicate her life to helping the poor.
"She ain't a nun? I thought she was a nun. I'd never have shot her if I'd known she was a lawyer... Y'don't think her estate's gonna sue, do ya?"
The UNHCR said Tonelli had worked under a lot of danger. She had been kidnapped once and also subjected to beatings and death threats.
Posted by: TS || 10/06/2003 9:04:00 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6487 views] Top|| File under:

#1  and Somalians wonder why their country is a stinking shithole nobody gives a rat's ass about...
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 10:48 Comments || Top||

#2  The Seal of Warlord Disapproval...
Posted by: mojo || 10/06/2003 11:00 Comments || Top||

#3  Wonder if the UN'll start pulling out over over this.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/06/2003 11:26 Comments || Top||

#4  She would have been safer helping the "oppressed" people of Iraq.
Posted by: Charles || 10/06/2003 12:38 Comments || Top||

#5  "Well I guess we can't have nice things, or people around here. Now go to bed without supper, and No you can't watch Blackhawk Down again."
Posted by: Braniac || 10/06/2003 18:53 Comments || Top||

#6  She was where she wanted to be, doing what she wanted. Unlike a bunch of asshat liberals, she put her life where her mouth was. God bless her.
Posted by: Ptah || 10/06/2003 19:44 Comments || Top||

Opening a Window on North Korea’s Horrors
Han, a Communist Party official in North Korea, was walking home from work when he heard he was in trouble. He had smuggled a radio back from China after an official trip. He listened to it late at night, huddled with earphones on and shades drawn, to hear music that brought him a whisper of sanity and took him away from the horrors of his day.

Now, someone had found it, or someone had told. "It could have been my children who said something outside. It could have been my friend; one knew," said Han, 39, who spoke on condition he be identified only by his surname. "If a farmer or laborer had a radio, he could have been released," Han said. "But I was an official. In my case, it would have been torture and a life sentence in a political prisoners’ camp."

At that moment, he made a choice faced by thousands who flee North Korea: He left his family to try to save his own life. He went straight to the Chinese border on that July day in 1997 and waded across the river, abandoning his wife and sons, then ages 4 and 2, and spent the next three years on the run in China, until missionaries helped get him to Seoul. Can you say "Stalinist hell" boys and girls? I knew you could..."
Posted by: Bent Pyramid || 10/06/2003 8:26:36 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6468 views] Top|| File under:

#1  BP--Don't think you'll get much comment on this since it was posted each day this weekend.

You gotta keep up with us hardcore, 24/7 Rantburgers! :-)
Posted by: Dar || 10/06/2003 14:34 Comments || Top||

#2  The Army of Steve™ strikes again!
Posted by: Steve White || 10/06/2003 15:07 Comments || Top||

#3  BP,ya gotta get early if ya wanta run wit da big dogs.
Posted by: Raptor || 10/06/2003 18:01 Comments || Top||

Former North Korean official denied refugee status in Canada
I have mixed feelings about this one. Seems we should be encouraging defections, shouldn’t we?
A former high-ranking North Korean government official who has been hiding in Canada with his son for almost two years has been denied refugee status in the country. CBC News has learned that Ri Song Dae’s refugee claim has been denied because of his complicity with a government guilty of crimes against humanity.
That’s pretty vague. Surely they have more on him than that.
The adjudicator in the case said she believed the former trade diplomat could be tortured and killed if he returned to North Korean.
Killed, probably not. But there’ll be no room at the party trough anymore.
She found that Ri knew of atrocities committed by the North Korean government but suspected he fled after he made "alcohol-fueled" comments that got him in trouble.
A lot of people know about the atrocities of the NKorean government. This is the reason for denying him refugee status???
His five-year-old son will be allowed to stay in Canada. Ri said he fled North Korea after he was accused of "leaking confidential military and state information" to China.
To China?? Well, that’s obviously made up.
He claimed he’d become fed up with conditions in North Korea and spoke out against the government after witnessing the mistreatment of people caught trying to defect. The Korean community sheltered Ri when he came to Canada. He hid underground in Toronto. Ri said his wife and son also fled to Canada. He claimed his wife was lured back to Japan by her parents where she was kidnaped and returned to North Korea and killed last year. The board said Ri provided no proof of his wife’s death. Ri plans to fight the adjudicator’s judgment in federal court.
Someone better explain to the board how Communist tyrants work. They don’t exactly provide death certificates in some cases.
Posted by: Rafael || 10/06/2003 7:05:07 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6472 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Killed, probably not. But there’ll be no room at the party trough anymore.

Actually, disgraced officials in North Korea get special treatment to set an example for everyone else. What's more likely is tortured, then killed.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/06/2003 7:44 Comments || Top||

#2  amazing, Canada's given refugee status to Islamic killers and bombers but all of the sudden they have standards? Guy should've worn a turban
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 10:57 Comments || Top||

#3  Why hasn't this guy defected to South Korea where he should be welcomed with open arms? Still, a strange decision on Canada's part. I believe it is being appealed.
Posted by: John B || 10/06/2003 11:18 Comments || Top||

#4  His mistake was asking for refugee status in a country that has diplomatic relations with the North Korean government.
Posted by: john || 10/06/2003 11:20 Comments || Top||

#5  The board said Ri provided no proof of his wife’s death.

There's the problem, Ri obviously forgot to mail $10 (Canadian) to the Bureau of Vital Statistics in Pyongyang for a copy of his wife's death certificate. That would have cleared everything up.
Posted by: Steve White || 10/06/2003 11:33 Comments || Top||

#6  John B - SKor does NOT welcome defectors from NKor. See this article for more, but here's one quote:

The South Korean government doesn't exactly put out the welcome mat for their escaping brethren. South Korea regards North Korean escapees as an impediment to progress in inter-Korean reconciliation.
Posted by: lkl || 10/06/2003 13:34 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Bush plans to attack 7 Muslim nations: Clark
We ran this a few days ago. Jang's a little late with it...
Gen Wesley Clark accused the Bush administration of having a five year plan to attack seven nations across the Muslim world. According to a British daily, General Clark, the front-runner in the Democratic race for the White House, disclosed this in a book due for publication later this month, British Newspaper reported on Saturday. Clark launched a high-risk attack on American foreign policy yesterday when he said the Bush administration should face an investigation into possible criminal conduct in its drive to war. Gen Clark, who as Nato supreme commander led the war in Kosovo, accused the Bush administration of entering office already determined to attack Iraq, then seizing on the September 11 attacks as justification. He called for an independent review of what he called the possible manipulation of intelligence to convince the American people that war with Iraq was necessary. Though a political novice, Gen Clark has surged to the front of the crowded pack of Democrats vying to challenge President George W Bush next year, less than three weeks after entering the contest.
Does anybody know which 7 nations are meant by Clark?
Posted by: Murat || 10/06/2003 5:34:49 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6464 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This from an MSNBC opinion article: (http://www.msnbc.com/news/974509.asp?0dm=C16PO)

" As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia, and Sudan. … He said it with reproach — with disbelief, almost — at the breadth of the vision. I moved the conversation away, for this was not something I wanted to hear. And it was not something I wanted to see moving forward, either."
Posted by: Sorge || 10/06/2003 6:00 Comments || Top||

#2  What about Turkey? Didn't make the list? C'mon Murat, spice it up a bit.
Posted by: Anonymous || 10/06/2003 6:45 Comments || Top||

#3  Weasel Wesley Clark must be trying to win over the barking moonbat demographic. Secret five-year plans disclosed in casual conversations by anonymous sources! What's he going to bring up next? Black helicopters? Flouride in the water? Mossad agents selling velvet Elvis paintings door-to-door?
Posted by: Mike || 10/06/2003 6:58 Comments || Top||

#4  Whatever the truth value what Wesley Clark claims may be, it is a serious one Mike, he is not just a haphazard civilian throwing around with wild remarks you can ignore and laugh about, he is/was one of the US top generals.
Posted by: Murat || 10/06/2003 7:06 Comments || Top||

#5  Was. Top General? I thought he got fired. By Clinton no less.
Posted by: Rafael || 10/06/2003 7:09 Comments || Top||

#6  he is not just a haphazard civilian

Um, yes, he is. He's retired, remember?

If there's a super-secret five-year plan to attack 7 nations, then we're running way behind schedule. This smells like more of Clark's peyote-induced pandering, and it getting reported is just more pandering to the moonbat demographic.

Which explains why The Rat believes it.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/06/2003 7:11 Comments || Top||

#7  I remember when Clark f&cked up big time for CNN. During the war he made the comment that for immediate bomb damage assesment, he would often turn to CNN (probably hoping to pick up bonus points from the execs). The following day or two Nic Robertson and his CNN crew were booted out of Baghdad. Good one general.
Posted by: Rafael || 10/06/2003 7:17 Comments || Top||

#8  More importantly, Clark is a citizen running for President against Bush. Of course he's going to attack Bush.

He'll have to clarify these remarks. He's going to have a hard time arguing that Iraq was unnecessary. Milosevic looks like Valcav Havel compared to Saddam.

Does anybody in the world doubt that the Pentagon have wargame-hypothetical "plans" for invasion of every single country in the world.

Does Clark think it's okay to go around announcing the content of discussions that occurred at the Pentagon 2 months after 9/11.

This guy gives me the creeps.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 10/06/2003 7:36 Comments || Top||

#9  As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia, and Sudan.

If this is true, I can't believe Clark disclosed extremely sensitive internal deliberations for political gain. I would call this nothing less than traitorous. (At the same time, this may help to scare the crap out of the countries mentioned, which may not be a bad thing).
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 10/06/2003 7:39 Comments || Top||

#10  Full combat ops against seven nations within a five year period is logistically impossible. For example: Iran would require even more troops than Iraq to occupy. And notice that the fact that we have to keep sufficient troops avaiable to be a credible threat to North Korea hasn't even been factored in yet. So if the plans that General Clark (and his source) mention are correct and current, they must be discussing operations far short of war.

In any case, the fact that Clark is willing to discuss this sort of staff out loud for political gain just graduated him from a "guy I don't agree with" to a "goddamned fool and menace" in record time.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips || 10/06/2003 7:58 Comments || Top||

#11  I seriously doubt that the conversation Clark describes actually took place.

Remember his claim that the "White House" called him on September 11 to recruit him to claim that Saddam was involved? Turned out, after people pressured Clark to give details, that the phone call was from some guy in Toronto.

Clark strikes me as one of these guys who makes things up, or embellishes, to get attention.

(By the way, I sincerely hope someone in the Pentagon is working up war plans for Syria and Iran. That's what they're paid to do--plan for all sorts of contingencies. Just remember, the fact that plans exist doesn't mean that there's a present intent to use them.)
Posted by: Mike || 10/06/2003 8:52 Comments || Top||

#12  If the conversation didn't take place then it tells LOTS about Wesley Clark. If it did take
place airing it borders treason and could let
him open to prosecution
Posted by: JFM || 10/06/2003 9:00 Comments || Top||

#13  I think this needs to be confirmed by the high ranking staff member who Clark was speaking to. Otherwise he is just talking out of his ass (again).

Bringing this kind of thing up *now* with things like they are is pretty farking insensitive to our troops who are over there. This kind of talk can get some killed. If someone gets killed because Clark revealed these 'alledged' plans then , at least in my book, Clark would be at least partially to blame for their deaths. This is, at least, the second time Clark has revealed sensitive information in his campain.

The fact that Clark is the type who would beleave in a 5 year plan to invade 7 (count them 7!) countries - which is, as has been noted, logicistically and militarily impossible even for us, show what kind of an idiot he is.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 10/06/2003 9:38 Comments || Top||

#14  You gotta know that liberal media outlets like NPR (Not Particularly Relevant) are undoubtedly giddy with excitement over this pronouncement. It provides them with ammo until Nov 2004. It will be hilarious to watch the left fall apart next year.

On the other hand, wiping out Syria, Saudi Arabia, et al, would not break my heart in least.
Posted by: badanov || 10/06/2003 9:46 Comments || Top||

#15  Invading 7 countries in 5 years is not impossible, keeping it occupied maybe yes but invading definitively not, we are talking here about countries like Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Lebanon, Libya (Even their combined armies have a power you laugh about).

But apart from that even if Clark's claims are doubtfull they remain claims of a civilian running for President, which gives a lot of food for talk.
Posted by: Murat || 10/06/2003 9:54 Comments || Top||

#16  Do you think that by naming names of the countries on our list of hostiles that 'terrorism' will be reduced?

I wonder if covert actions are being undertaken in this war of political terrorism ?
Posted by: Bruce || 10/06/2003 10:04 Comments || Top||

#17  I can easily imagine a member of the Pentagon staff sayiing this to Wesley Clark.

However, I can also imagine that same officer rolling his eyes and grinning as he walked away. I can further imagine this same officer telliing his friends about this conversation in the Officer's club later that day (and for many days to come)

"Geez, as soon as I said that, Wes' eyes just lit up -- he looked like a kid who got a pony for Christmas!"
"Aw, c'mon Hugh... you didn't *really* tell him seven countries, did ya?"

To get a sense of how this would work, Murat, imagine Fred's face as he types the following: "You're absolutely right, Murat -- I hadn't thought of that before"
Posted by: snellenr || 10/06/2003 10:08 Comments || Top||

#18  they remain claims of a civilian running for President, which gives a lot of food for talk

Murat, just because someone says they're interested in being president doesn't make what they say anymore reliable or knowledgable. Furthermore, Clark's been acting like a flake, and this latest statement is just more flakiness.

You believe it because it confirms your prejudices. Step away from your hatred and listen to the assessments people have given above.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/06/2003 10:12 Comments || Top||

#19  7 countries? Now if he'd said 19.....
Posted by: Shipman || 10/06/2003 10:15 Comments || Top||

#20  I am not pro-Clark and certainly not pro-Bush, but I heard no denouncements from the republicans about these claims.

By the way I never said I do believe these claims are reliable, nevertheless they are important claims which can have big impact (even if they are lies) like Bush's claim of WMD weapons.
Posted by: Murat || 10/06/2003 10:28 Comments || Top||

#21  I heard no denouncements from the republicans about these claims.

Of course not. No one feels a need to respond to everything a madman says; you haven't heard anyone responding to Kucinich's call for a "Department of Peace", either.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 10/06/2003 10:33 Comments || Top||

#22  Clark's dangerously deranged - I'm really glad he's out of the military now
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 10:42 Comments || Top||

#23  Murat-
Let me just say this, and I am sure that some of our regulars can back me up:
First, I would not be at all surprised to find that there are dusty contingency plans still resting in some safe somewhere that deal with a US war with Canada. Considering that in November 2001 we were still trying to get a grip on the nature of the attacks against us, it seems reasonable that some of our military planners - who are paid to think of these things - would have come up with contingency plans for attacks on any nation that we knew to be harboring terrorists. Interestingly enough, that list is identical to the one noted by General Clark. His statements here are at BEST disingenuous, and worst flat out distortions. I would be very, very surprised if somewhere in Ankara there weren't very tightly guarded contingency plans for the unilateral invasion of Iraq.
Secondly - and I really think that this is proof that General Clark hasn't thought this through too well - since he is running on (among other things) his military skill, knowledge, and experience, his claiming that he was surprised by this is - to me at least - utterly unbelieveable. One does not simply 'create' contingency plans. They are carefully, methodically put together over years, and not just assembled on the spur of the moment. For him to say that he was surprised says that either he was a really lousy 4-star or he is not telling the full truth.

Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 10/06/2003 10:51 Comments || Top||

#24  I had a dream that Wesley Clark was elected President, but when it came time for the inauguration, it was Ramsey Clark who was sworn in, and no one noticed the difference.
Posted by: Angie Schultz || 10/06/2003 10:56 Comments || Top||

#25  Damn! I musta fallen off the Secret 5 Year Invasion Plan mailing list somehow. I hate it when that happens...
Posted by: mojo || 10/06/2003 11:03 Comments || Top||

#26  Mike wrote: I seriously doubt that the conversation Clark describes actually took place. Remember his claim that the "White House" called him on September 11 to recruit him to claim that Saddam was involved? Turned out, after people pressured Clark to give details, that the phone call was from some guy in Toronto.

Here is Paul Greenberg's account of this event, read it before you take anything Clark has to say seriously:
Posted by: Biff Wellington || 10/06/2003 11:05 Comments || Top||

#27  its time we deal with our enemies. as time goes on they will only become stronger. these are countries that for over 20 years (since the bastards in tehran took over our embassy - revenge will be sweet) have espoused nothing but hatred and contempt for us, have wished us to be destroyed. and this has not just been talk - for way too long the united states pussy footed around with these regimes (remember billy - another fucking frog weasel). now we have bush - and he is not taking no bullshit and these same countries are now crying about america the threat to world peace. well you get what you reap.
Posted by: Dan || 10/06/2003 11:05 Comments || Top||

#28  Sorry, my link to Paul Greenberg didn't appear. Let's try again:
Paul Greenberg on Wesley Clark
Posted by: Biff Wellington || 10/06/2003 11:17 Comments || Top||

#29  Angie - ROFLMAO - perrrrfect!

Murat - ANYone born an American citizen who is not a felon and at least 35 (? I think this is correct ?) can run for President. Why even you, were you to meet those simple requirements, could toss your fez into the ring. THEN the fun would begin...

Re: Clark
I wonder about all of those review boards which kept promoting this zero. Surely there were signs along the way. Perhaps those fitness reports were written by similarly self-aggrandizing ass-kissing suck-up wanna-bees. I knew some Majors who'd call a fire mission into the Michelin Plantation to save a patrol - but then that's why they were passed over and tapped out as Majors. Clark prolly zoomed through these salad-days without batting an eye -- wearing knee-pads, of course, as he gave those boards the required knobjob.

I think he'll make a fine Donk candidate. I look forward to it. I will truly enjoy watching him go down in flames in the process - and have this wart on the American military removed once and for all.
Posted by: .com || 10/06/2003 11:24 Comments || Top||

#30  General Clark is not a civilian - he is a general officer relieved of active duty and transferred to the Retired Reserve, just the same as the rest of us retirees. He is still liable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and will be for as long as he lives.

His attack on George Bush is a disaster for him, no matter what falls out. Either he's a damned fool that shoots off his mouth too much, or he's a traitor, disclosing classified information during wartime. Either way, he's proven he's a loser, and a loose cannon that needs to be physically restrained. The fact that what he's saying is mostly politically-motivated fabrication, it's easy to see why the Clintons love him - he's another congenital liar, just like them. The fact that this moonbat maroon is the current front-runner for the Democratic Party says a lot about the Democrats, and not any of it nice.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 10/06/2003 11:35 Comments || Top||

#31  .com-
Well, think about this: First in his class, ring-knocking Rhodes Scholar in the MacNamara era. Pretty much explains everything to me. One can NOT denigrate his courage in the field - he earned that Silver Star. But on the other hand, if a brilliant, heroic, wounded combat commander in one of the highest positions the US military then had to offer hadn't gotten pissed at the leadership which didn't seem to recognize his gifts (sound familiar?)...there'd be a Fort Arnold right now.

Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 10/06/2003 11:54 Comments || Top||

#32  New campaign theme song for Wesley:
Seven Nation Army by the White Stripes
Posted by: Frank G || 10/06/2003 12:02 Comments || Top||

#33  I don't fault Murat for believing this crap. He's reacting to the best information he's got. In fact, I'd say he's doing us a favor by letting us know that Clark's statements are getting play around the world.

Clark's statements, if taken seriously, are likely to get some of our troops dead. It appears they are being taken seriously.
Posted by: Dishman || 10/06/2003 12:07 Comments || Top||

#34  So - is "the general" guessing, or does he know? Because if he knows this for a fact, then I would imagine that releasing information that is likely to get people killed is likely a violation of law of some sort. If hes just guessing, then whats all the hoo-haw?

Say, Dont they have a word for people who reveal secret plans to the enemy and put american troops at risk?
Posted by: frank martin || 10/06/2003 12:20 Comments || Top||

#35  Mike - Can you point to the authoritative sources that convince you he earned his Silver Star?

Re: West Point
First in class looks mighty nifty on your bio / headstone, but proof of zilch. Getting through the hazing and actually acquiring knowledge does indicate fortitude, backbone, and gumption. I wonder where they went, since?

Re: Rhodes Scholarship
BTW, Clinton was almost a Rhodes Scholar - but since he didn't finish, he is not a Rhodes Scholar. And regards the scholarship and the selection of candidates, it isn't pure academics - it's social engineering, with all of the pitfalls and politics. Remember, Clinton received his offer when he was an aide to Senator Fullbright (or was that Halfbright?)- and when the Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee campaigns on your behalf, you get a leg up, so to speak. Note that the scholarship choices are made by US committees, so Halfbright certainly was a 900 lb gorilla in their deliberations. Here's a link that gets everything right - except the very last thing - that Clinton is one.

Re: Intelligence
I offer the following entertaining, and instructive, link - read the whole thing, it may put a different spin on Clark's intellect.

Personally, my IQ is one point less than Marilyn vos Savant's (bitch!). Prolly why I never amounted to anything but an old guy living in heaven Thailand.
Posted by: .com || 10/06/2003 12:38 Comments || Top||

#36  Wow so much fodder this early! Murat, I have no doubt that there is a contingency plan to invade seven countries in 5 years. There are also war plans (we called the OPLANs) to invade: Korea, Russia, PRC, India, Columbia, etc). The people at the War Colleges develop these plans for contingencies. The fact that Wealsy Clark leaked SPECIFIC OPLAN information may open him up to charges under the UCMJ. Furthermore, Weasly Clark was the BIGGEST ass kisser with stars. He would have been retired with one star if it hadn’t been for his buddy (and classmate) Slick Willey. Because of all his back stabbing, NOBODY on the JCS attended his retirement ceremony. This is UNPRECEDENTED for someone of four-star rank. This leads me to believe that most (if not all) officers in the Pentagon are avoiding him like the plague and wouldn’t think of passing him OPLANs. What’s all the fascination with this guy anyway? He hasn’t been right with one prediction or pronouncement so far.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 10/06/2003 12:41 Comments || Top||

#37  I'm disapponted that Monaco isn't on the list. Maybe they can make room for an eighth? After what they did to Grace Kelly (suuuure, it was an accident!), and because their flag looks so much like Poland's, they're just asking for it!

Additionally, according to the CIA Fact Book, their defense is France's responsibility, so the invasion should take about... oh, an afternoon, tops.
Posted by: Dar || 10/06/2003 12:59 Comments || Top||

#38  Is this the same Clark who was essentially FIRED from his position as head of NATO? The same Clark that say he would have dont the same thing as Bush, then re-tracted that statement and said the opposite? The same Clark that wanted to shut down a major airport because of his paranioa, and in a British general refused saying " I won't start WW3 for you" ?!

Clark has offered no solution to the economic troubles of our country ( The stock market is rising more and more ), no solution to the Terrorist equation, no opinion on education, no solution for the deficit ( Which we can most certainly afford with our rising economy), and his slogan is basically " Bush is bad, Clark is good! "

If this guy debates Bush he'll be torn to shreds. And why hasn't any of his fellow coleagues stood up in his defense, active or retired? All they've done is say not to elect him. Also, isn't this the guy who had a STEALTH FIGHTER shot down while he was in command?

I would sooner believe a leprechaun on my shoulder than Clark.
Posted by: Charles || 10/06/2003 13:11 Comments || Top||

#39  So several months after 9-11, Clark visits the Pentagon and discovers that the US is planning attacks on countries that are known to harbor terrorists.

Clark is so appalled that he begins to call Karl Rove and appear at Republican fundraisers.

Why specifically was he fired? Did he fail a drug test?
Posted by: Superhose || 10/06/2003 13:15 Comments || Top||

#40  All I can say is 7 isn't enough. And if anything this makes me support the WOT more. Kill 'em all and let Allah sort them out.
Posted by: spiffo || 10/06/2003 14:28 Comments || Top||


Steyn on Clark
Posted by: Ernest Brown || 10/06/2003 15:40 Comments || Top||

#42  Sgt. Stryker's Clark Bar Archives-take note of the first entry
Posted by: Ernest Brown || 10/06/2003 15:55 Comments || Top||

#43  Well, I'm not sure which is scariest:

1- Angela's dream about Ramsey Clark becoming president (LMAO)

2- Wes Clark making four stars or

3- PD having an IQ equal to Marilyn's.
Posted by: Matt || 10/06/2003 16:43 Comments || Top||

Murder hits 40-year low
Murder in America has fallen into a historic slump, and that’s a fact more people can live with. Murder rates have dropped to levels not seen since the mid-1960s, punctuating the end of a bloody 20th century where more than twice as many died in American homicides as U.S. troops did in wars. Among findings in BJS’ comprehensive examination of 507,681 murders from 1976 through 2000 (the last year in which the data have been analyzed completely):
•2000 was considered a good year because criminals took "only" 15,317 lives, down by 9,000 from annual tolls just a decade before.

•Blacks make up 12.1 percent of the nation’s population but commit most of the murders and are over-represented among homicide victims. They are six times more likely to be murdered, and seven times more likely to kill.

•White criminals dominate among those executed and those waiting on death row. They most often commit serial or mass murders.

•The best way to prevent murder is to avoid arguments. They are the single leading factor that accounts for four of every 10 homicides.
Posted by: g wiz || 10/06/2003 12:19:42 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6472 views] Top|| File under:

#1  In September 2001 what percentage of murders were committed by Saudi nationals?
Posted by: Superhose || 10/06/2003 13:04 Comments || Top||

#2  I'm looking forward to seeing the number of violent crimes drop in ensuing years with the increasing number of states loosening their concealed carry restrictions, too.

The best way to prevent murder is to avoid arguments.
Look for Hillary's next book: "It Takes a Group Hug"
Posted by: Dar || 10/06/2003 13:07 Comments || Top||

#3  Up here, we used to say, "It takes a village to ruin a child."
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 10/06/2003 13:37 Comments || Top||

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Two weeks of WOT
Mon 2003-10-06
  Azam Tariq late!
Sun 2003-10-05
  Israel bombs IJ target in Syria
Sat 2003-10-04
  20 dead in Haifa boom
Fri 2003-10-03
  Suspected Saddam executioner caught
Thu 2003-10-02
  Pakistan kills 12 al Qaeda
Wed 2003-10-01
  Senate Panel OKs Bush $87B Iraq Plan
Tue 2003-09-30
  Jug time for teenage exploding Islamic hookers
Mon 2003-09-29
  AMC's Alamoudi jugged
Sun 2003-09-28
  Afghan Constitution Proposes Muslim State
Sat 2003-09-27
  Guilty plea in Portland
Fri 2003-09-26
  25 bad guyz arrested in Ramallah
Thu 2003-09-25
  Qaeda negotiating with Yemen
Wed 2003-09-24
  Toe tag for al-Rimi!
Tue 2003-09-23
  Izzat Ibrahim negotiating surrender
Mon 2003-09-22
  Hambali's little brother nabbed in Karachi

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