At least four persons â three terrorists and one member of an outlawed party â were killed in separate incidents of crossfire during the last four days in Narayanganj, Sylhet and Khulna.
Busy weekend
Our correspondent from Narayanganj reports: two listed criminals â Ahad, 28, and Ebu, 29 â were killed in shootouts between the criminals and police and the elite members of Rapid Action Battalion (RAB) on Sunday and Friday under Narayanganj Sadar and Fatulla upazilas.
Sources concerned said a police team, acting on a tip off, nabbed fugitive Ebu from Nababpur area in the capital city on November 04.
According to his confessional statement, a police team along with criminal Ebu went out in the early hours of Sunday looking for his associates and recovering firearms.
2AM hunt for arms caches, ALT - F5 on your newsroom keyboard
When the police van reached Katoalerbag area under Fatulla upazila, the criminals sprayed bullets targeting the policemen in a bid to snatch Ebu from their custody.
"Da coppers got Ebu! Open fire blindly!"
The police also responded by firing. At one stage Ebu received bullet injuries and died on the spot.
"Ouch..ouch...rosebud.."
Later, the law-enforcers recovered one shooter-gun, three cartridges, five bullets of Chinese rifle and one bullet of revolver.
Sung to the tune of "On the First Day of Christmas"
Edu was wanted in 11 criminal cases, the sources said.
Meanwhile, another crossfire victim Ahad was caught red-handed on November 01 from a cloth shop at DIT market in the town while he was collecting illegal toll amounting to Tk 15,000 from the shop owner, sources in the RAB-10 said.
Shaking down the shop keeper for a little protection money
Based on Ahadâs confessional statement, RAB men along with Ahad went out early Friday in a bid to recover firearms and detain his cohorts.
ALT - F5
As the RAB team reached the âBarafkalâ area at around 5:50am, some unknown criminals opened fire on the elite force, which also returned the fire. Ahad received bullet wounds while trying to escape during the shootout. Bullet-injured Ahad was sent to Narayanganj 200-bed Hospital, where the attending doctor declared him dead.
"He's dead, Jim"
However, RAB recovered one pistol and 16 rounds of bullet from the spot.
Ahad was accused in 10 criminal cases, including murder and arms. He was also an associate of notorious terrorist Zakir Khan.
Khaaaaaannn!
Our staff correspondent from Khulna reports: a regional leader of the outlawed New Biplobi Communist Party (NBCP) was killed in a âcrossfireâ between his cohorts and the police under Batiaghata upazila on Thursday. The dead was identified as Projapoti Biswas alias Prodip Biswas, 30, of village Bolabunia under Batiaghata upazila.
He was accused in at least six cases, three of which were murder cases. The police arrested him from his village on Tuesday.
ALT - F5
According to the police sources, a gunfight took place between the outlaws and the police early Thursday when the latter along with the arrested Projapoti went to Tengramari cremation ghat area in search of hidden arms and his accomplices. Earlier, Projapoti Biswas disclosed to the police during interrogation that the arms had been kept hidden at their hideout at the cremation ghat area, sources concerned said.
That'll be handy
At one stage of the gunfight, Projapoti tried to escape from the scene but was hit by bullets resulting in his death on the spot.
"Feet, don' ....BANG!...urp...rosebud...."
The police recovered one sawed-off gun, five rounds of ammunition, one Chinese axe and one air-gun. ASI Taher and constable Fariduddin were also injured in the incident, the police said.
In Sylhet, an alleged terrorist was killed in a shootout between his cohorts and members of the RAB in the cityâs Pathantula area early Saturday, reports UNB. The deceased was identified as M Touhid Ahmed Shebul, 20, son of Babul Miah alias Mojnu Miah of the cityâs Badambagicha area. Sources in the RAB said they arrested Shebul from the cityâs Jindabazar area at about 8:00pm on Friday.
ALT - F5
After his confessional statement, RAB members took him to Pathantuli to recover hidden arms and arrest his accomplices.
"When RAB men reached the area with Shebul, the armed cohorts of Shebul opened fire on the RAB members forcing them to fire back. Shebul was caught in the crossfire while he tried to flee from the scene," one of the sources said.
It's like they don't even care if you believe them or not
Seriously injured Shebul succumbed to his injuries at Sylhet Osmani Medical College Hospital.
"....rose....wheeze....bud....."
Shebul was wanted by police in nine cases, including murder, the sources said. One revolver and two rounds of bullet were also recovered from the scene.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 11:58 ||
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#1
Later, the law-enforcers recovered one shooter-gun, three cartridges, five bullets of Chinese rifle and one bullet of revolver.
#5
Later, the law-enforcers recovered one shooter-gun, three cartridges, five bullets of Chinese rifle and one bullet of revolver.
AHAH, we have changed writers, the famous "Shutter-Gun" is revealed to be a "Shooter-Gun" No I'm no further enlightened, (Means, "Still no idea exactly what the hell they're talking about")
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
11/07/2005 21:41 Comments ||
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#6
my guess: shooter-gun = non arab or islamic origin. Those are spray and pray
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/07/2005 22:10 Comments ||
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Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, was forced into a climbdown today over proposals to hold terrorist suspects for a maximum of 90 days without charge. Faced with cross-party opposition and a growing backbench rebellion within Labour, Mr Clarke said that he would table a proposal to amend the deadline in the Terrorism Bill.
He said, however, that he would not reduce the proposed time suspects can be held without charge to the 28-day limit sought by the Opposition and some Labour backbenchers. Mr Clarke said: "I am considering precisely what figure I would table following further discussion with leaders today."
He said that he was disappointed that the measure, which he said was crucial to prevent further terrorist atrocities on British soil, had become a party political issue. He said that it had the backing of police, prosecuting authorities and up to three-quarters of the public.
None the less, the Prime Ministerâs wish for the full 90 days would face almost certain defeat in the Commons, making concessions inevitable before the votes on Wednesday when the Terrorism Bill returns for its report stage.
The U-turn will be seen as a major setback for Labour, and in particular, Tony Blair who was expected to launch a passionate defence of the 90-day limit at his monthly press conference, which began shortly after Mr Clarke's announcement.
#2
Indeed not. The Russell Square bomb could easily have killed 500 Londoners. It's a miracle that it didn't. Sadly, only when they kill Londoners by the thousand that anyone will pay attention to tackling this problem seriously. Shame on you Mr Clarke - you clearly don't take the tube to work.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
11/07/2005 9:13 Comments ||
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Unbelievable!
Aren't these people paid to provide for the security and well being of all the citizens?
Even 90 days is woefully insignificant in some cases. I don't want to see one brit harmed due to the incompetence of the Commons.
Question: How long did it take to unravel 7/7? It is still being unravelled.
Posted by: Captain America ||
11/07/2005 11:35 Comments ||
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#4
Commentator note: I refrained from using profanity in the above post due to the sensitivity of some readers.
Posted by: Captain America ||
11/07/2005 11:39 Comments ||
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#5
Captain America, I hope that those sensitive souls you refer to aren't me. My vocabulary has expanded sooooo much since I started reading Rantburg!
Mr Clarke said that he would table a proposal to amend the deadline in the Terrorism Bill.
He said, however, that he would not reduce the proposed time suspects can be held without charge to the 28-day limit sought by the Opposition and some Labour backbenchers
Mr. Clarke is neatly negotiating something that will likely end up closer to 90 days than the current limit. (Was it 3 days or a fortnight? I can't remember now.) And the longer France burns, the more likely he is to get a big number in the end.
#6
Preview is my friend. ;-) The italicized bit should be
Mr Clarke said that he would table a proposal to amend the deadline in the Terrorism Bill...He said, however, that he would not reduce the proposed time suspects can be held without charge to the 28-day limit sought by the Opposition and some Labour backbenchers
#11
Sam Clemens said "It's perfectly all right to curse around women, the ones who never heard the words, aren't offended because they don't know what they mean, and the women who know the words have heard the words before and shouldn't be offended because the words are not new"
(Sorta)
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
11/07/2005 21:47 Comments ||
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TERROR suspects held in today's massive police operation today formed a group to wage "holy war" against Australians, a court has heard.
The first of the suspects have appeared in a Melbourne court today, with police alleging their aim was "to kill innocent men and women in Australia".
The nine include include Osama Bin Laden supporter and radical Islamic cleric, Abdul Nacer Benbrika, also known as Abu Bakr. (Related story More: Abu Bakr)
Benbrika has been named in court as the alleged leader of the group.
In total, 16 people were arrested in today's raids in Melbourne and Sydney, now believed to have involved some 500 police, combining Australian Federal Police with state forces in New South Wales and Victoria.
Government and police officials have the group was stockpiling chemicals that could have been used to make explosives.
It has been claimed the group may have been plotting a terrorist spectacular on the scale of the al-Qaeda attacks on London and Madrid. (Related story More: Chemical 'threat')
NSW Police Commissioner Ken Moroney said the group's plans, if successful, would have been "catastrophic".
Authorities have not yet identified any specific targets the suspects were planning to attack.
In a dramatic day of police activity, officers also shot and wounded a suspected terrorist who allegedly fled and fired them and disobeyed an order to stop on a Sydney street this morning.
The man had been under surveillance by counter-terrorist police and was carrying a backpack when ordered to stop by officers.
He is currently in a Sydney hospital in a serious but stable condition. (Related story Full story)
The first details of the charges against the 16 terror suspects were outlined in a Melbourne court today.
Victorian police had more than 240 hours of phone intercepts in which the group discussed plans to kill Australian civilians, the court heard.
Some of the group had attended military training, and they had a pooled fund of money to finance alleged plots, the court heard.
Benbrika was the co-ordinator and spiritual leader of the group, prosecutor Richard Maidment QC said.
"It is alleged that all of the persons who have been before the court this morning along with another not presently in custody constitutes a terrorist organisation," Mr Maidment said.
"That organisation is directed by the defendant Benbrika.
"Each of the members of the group are committed to the cause of violent jihad," he said.
The arrests come just days after the Federal Government rushed changes to anti-terrorist legislation through Parliament.
Prime Minister John Howard warned the changes were necessary because "specific intelligence and police information" indicated a group was close to carrying out a terrorist spectacular on Australian soil.
The Sydney raids targeted homes in south western suburbs including Wiley Park, while homes in Melbourne's suburbs of Brunswick, Coburg and Broadmeadows were raided.
Police would oppose bail for the suspects when they faced court later today, Mr Moroney said.
"They're currently being interviewed by police and my expectation is that those persons variously will appear in Sydney courts this morning," he said.
In Melbourne, lawyer Rob Stary said he would be acting for people charged in the city's northern suburbs.
The charges mainly involved membership of a proscribed terrorist organisation, he said.
"I assume it's one of the Islamist organisations that have been proscribed (by the Federal Government)," Mr Stary said.
Victorian Premier Steve Bracks said documents and computer hard drives had been seized and that in Sydney some chemicals had been seized.
Searches are continuing at addresses in the two cities.
#6
Does seem a bit redundant, but a gentle reminder to the good citizens explaining just what the muzzies were up to was probably wise. Many here in the States seem to forget all too quickly and concentrate on blaming our leadership for the hard times. This terrorism thing has been going on for decades, it's not just a Reagan, Clinton, or Bush thing.
I tried posting this before but kept getting some e-poster error, so if this article did make it through just ignore this one. POLICE have shot and wounded a terrorist suspect who allegedly opened fire on them this morning after he disobeyed an order to stop on a Sydney street. Unconfirmed reports say the man had been under surveillance by counter-terrorist police and was carrying a backpack when ordered to stop by police. The suspect tried to flee, reportedly firing gunshots at police before officers returned fire, hitting him in the abdomen.
Gut shot is good...
The incident, at 9.30am, came just hours after hundreds of police officers raided houses in Sydney and Melbourne, arresting 17 people who were allegedly planning a "catastrophic" terrorist attack in Australia. The suspect has been taken to hospital and is in a serious but stable condition.
That's too bad...
This morning's raids involved around 400 police officers in Australia's two largest cities this morning. Police and government officials said the raids had "disrupted ... the final stages of a large-scale terrorist attack". Prominent radical Muslim cleric Abu Bakr was among those arrested in the raids.
"Stick 'em up, Abu!"
"I ain't sayin' nuttin' widdout me mout'piece!"
It has been claimed the group was stockpiling chemicals that could be used to carry out a terrorist attack on the scale of the London and Madrid train bombings. Nine of the suspects were arrested in Melbourne while a further six were held in Sydney. Charges against those arrested include acts in preparation of a terrorist act, being a member of a terrorist group, and conspiracy to commit a terrorist act. One man has been charged with directing a terrorist organisation.
Abu, perhaps?
Victorian Premier Steve Bracks said documents and computer hard drives had been seized and that in Sydney some chemicals had been seized. Searches are still being carried out at addresses in the two cities. The nine Melbourne suspects, including Abu Bakr, are expected to appear in court this morning.
"Rise and shine, boyz! Don't keep the judge waitin'!"
The arrests come just days after the Federal Government rushed changes to anti-terrorist legislation through Parliament. Prime Minister John Howard warned the changes were necessary because "specific intelligence and police information" indicated a group was close to carrying out a terrorist spectacular on Australian soil. NSW Police Commissioner Ken Moroney said 400 federal and state officers were involved in the Sydney raids alone, and they achieved a major breakthrough.
Like Abu's door, perhaps?
The simultaneous raids, at 2.30am (AEDT) in both cities, resulted in six arrests in Sydney and nine in Melbourne. Victoria Police Chief Commissioner Christine Nixon said the nine in Melbourne had been charged with a range of offences and would appear in court this morning. She said the raids in both states, the largest anti-terrorism operation seen in Australia, included 23 search warrants across Melbourne's north and west. Mr Moroney also said police had not identified any targets. "We believe ... that we've disrupted a large scale operation which, had it been allowed to go through to fruition, we certainly believe would have been catastrophic," Mr Moroney said. Police would oppose bail for the suspects when they faced court later today, Mr Moroney said. In Melbourne, lawyer Rob Stary said he would be acting for people charged in the city's northern suburbs.
"They were just innocent teachers of the Koran, in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were targeted because of their religion. If they didn't have turbans and... ummm... automatic weapons... and... ummm... explosives... ummm... never mind.
The charges mainly involved membership of a proscribed terrorist organisation, he said. "I assume it's one of the Islamist organisations that have been proscribed (by the Federal Government)," Mr Stary said on ABC Radio National.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/07/2005 19:31 ||
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Just one?
Back to the range for them!
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/07/2005 23:21 Comments ||
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gut is good...hopefully it fragmented
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/07/2005 23:26 Comments ||
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ONE of the nine men arrested in anti-terrorism raids across Melbourne overnight was the outspoken Melbourne Muslim cleric Abu Bakr, his lawyer said today. Criminal lawyer Rob Stary earlier declined to name the men he represented who were arrested and charged after early morning raids today. But Mr Stary replied: "Yes" when asked by ABC radio if one of the men arrested was Abu Bakr. Abu Bakr, also known as Abdul Nacer Benbrika, made headlines in August when he stated publicly his support for al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden. At the time, he denied being involved in any terrorist activities but told ABC Radio he was a supporter of Osama bin Laden. "Osama bin Laden, he is a great man," he said. "Osama bin Laden was a great man before 11 September, which they said he did it, until now nobody knows who did it."
Bakr defended Muslims fighting against coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and said anyone who fought in the name of Allah would be forgiven their sins. He also said Muslims faced a problem in Australia as to whether to obey Australian or Islamic laws. "There are two laws, there is Australian law, there is Islamic law," Bakr said. On other religions, he said: "I am not only against the Jew. I am against anyone who try to harm my religion."
At the time, Prime Minister John Howard rejected Bakr's statements, labelling them unfair and damaging to Australian Muslims who believed religions should be respected and everyone should live in tolerance and harmony. Bakr is a dual Algerian and Australian citizen who has lived in Melbourne's northern suburbs since 1989. Mr Stary said the nine men, including Bakr, had been charged with being members of a proscribed organisation under anti-terrorism legislation. The group had not been specified by authorities, he said. "They are not charged with being involved in the planning or preparation (of a terrorist act) ... they are charged with a membership offence only," he said. "They are the only charges. Because of the nature of the offences under the anti-terror legislation the law says that bail shall be opposed and shall be refused unless you can show there are exceptional circumstances."
Police had seized no materials that indicated the nine were about to launch a terrorist strike, Mr Stary said. "It appears to be the case that there's nothing ... of a sinister nature that was located within those premises â no weapons, no chemicals, no other instruments or any articles that might be used for that purpose."
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/07/2005 17:41 ||
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POLICE are raiding homes in Sydney and Melbourne in a counter-terrorism operation involving federal and state officers.
New South Wales police commissioner Ken Moroney has revealed at least six people have been arrested who were "proposing to conduct a terror attack in Australia".
The raids are still being carried out.
Some 400 officers from the Australian Federal Police and the state police forces in New South Wales and Victoria were involved.
The raids are still being carried out.
Mr Moroney said some 15 homes were targeted.
ABC radio said this morning that another nine people were arrested in Victoria in the raids. This has yet to be confirmed.
The swoop follows changes to the law that were rushed through Parliament last week by the Federal Government.
The Prime Minister said the changes were needed to help police avert a terrorist attack.
"A number of search warrants are currently being executed in Sydney and Melbourne as part of a joint operation by the AFP, New South Wales Police and Victoria Police," an AFP spokeswoman said.
"These warrants relate to an ongoing investigation and as a result it would be inappropriate to make any further comment at this time.
"Maintaining operational security is paramount at this stage.
"We can confirm that the ongoing operation relates to the area of counter-terrorism."
The raids follow Prime Minister John Howard's announcement last week of a possible terrorist threat believed to involve potential targets in Sydney and Melbourne.
The Australian reported the threat was linked to a group of Melbourne men who were spotted filming possible targets.
The Government recalled the Senate for a special sitting last week to pass one measure which widened the scope for authorities to arrest terrorist suspects.
Labor, the Australian Democrats and the Australian Greens have accused the government of playing politics with national security and trying to scare Australians.
But Mr Howard last night rejected the claims, saying he announced the changes to anti-terror laws because they were in the national interest.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/07/2005 15:44 ||
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When I first saw this headline, I thought it referred to France, and I was cheered. "That's exactly what they need to do," I said. Too bad it wasn't the case. :(
#6
Theres a press conference on tv now and they said there has been gunfire heard & the possible discovery of some chemicals.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/07/2005 17:37 Comments ||
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#7
Amazing arrogance on the part of these muzzies. They had 24 hour notice to dump any evidence and disappear.
Posted by: ed ||
11/07/2005 17:43 Comments ||
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#8
* Bomb making material seized
* 15 Arrested
* Bomb squad robot looking at suspicous package found on the side of the road
* Police have shot and critically wounded a terror suspect after he opened fire on them.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/07/2005 20:12 Comments ||
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#9
Police have shot and critically wounded a terror suspect after he opened fire on them.
Damn. He might survive
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/07/2005 20:43 Comments ||
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#10
Hopefully his chances of survival are low, they shot him in the neck :)
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/07/2005 20:55 Comments ||
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A LEADING Muslim cleric, who ASIO says is a national security risk, faces deportation after a court dismissed his bid to stay in Australia. Iranian-born Sheik Mansour Leghaei took action in the Federal Court to avoid deportation after the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation said he was a risk to national security. Justice Rodney Madgwick today dismissed Mr Leghaei's application to have his adverse security assessment declared void.
Justice Madgwick told the Federal Court in Canberra by videolink from Sydney he would reserve the reasons for his decision, along with cost questions, until a later date â expected to be within two weeks. Some of the reasons will be released publicly, but others will remain confidential. Mr Leghaei, a 43-year-old father of four who has lived in Australia for a decade, was automatically denied a permanent residency visa after ASIO issued an adverse security assessment, alleging he had been involved in "acts of foreign interference". Under Australian law, this can mean spying on, or intimidating, dissidents, and secretly collecting official, military or political information for a foreign government.
Mr Leghaei is on a bridging visa pending his deportation. His legal counsel had argued that he had been denied procedural fairness and natural justice in having his visa cancelled. But the federal government's legal team argued Mr Leghaei was denied his visa under a clear and long-standing scheme and the ASIO Act did not require Mr Leghaei to be told of the reasons.
"It's our country. We can let in who we want, and keep out who we want, and we don't want him."
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/07/2005 00:00 ||
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I don't think Nic Robertson wrote this, though it does seem his style. The gist of the story seems to be that a member of the Australian forces was hit by a vehicle someplace in the Middle East. Other than that, the story's pretty much content-free. Great for your diet, I guess...
An Australian soldier serving in the elite special services has died during training in the Middle East, Defence said today. His name was not released. In a statement, Defence said the soldier was struck by a vehicle. Defence did not say where in the Middle East the incident took place. Efforts by all his companions to provide first aid at the scene failed.
Defence force chief Angus Houston said he had offered his condolences to the soldier's next of kin and family as well as to other members of the ADF who knew the soldier. "At times like these we need to be strong and to offer our full support to the family and friends of the deceased soldier," he said. "Until the incident has been investigated fully, it would be inappropriate of me to provide details of the circumstances surrounding this tragic accident. I can say, however, the team was involved in a routine training activity and during that activity the soldier was struck by a vehicle."
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/07/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Bad news when any ranker dies, let alone SAS. My condolences. Besoeker.
PARIS - France will impose curfews under a state-of-emergency law and call up police reservists to stop rioting that has spread out of Paris' suburbs and into nearly 300 cities and towns across the country, the prime minister said Monday, calling a return to order "our No. 1 responsibility."
The tough new measures came as France's worst civil unrest in decades entered a 12th night, with rioters in the southern city of Toulouse setting fire to a bus after sundown and pelting police with gasoline bombs and rocks. Earlier, a 61-year-old retired auto worker died of wounds from an attack last week, the first death in the violence.
Asked on TF1 television whether the army should be brought in, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin said, "we are not at that point." But "at each step, we will take the necessary measures to re-establish order very quickly throughout France," he said. "That is our prime duty: ensuring everyone's protection."
...
Villepin said curfews will be imposed under a 1955 law that allows the declaring of a state of emergency in parts or all of France. The law was passed to curb unrest in Algeria during the war that led to its independence. He said 1,500 reservists were being called up to reinforce the 8,000 police and gendarmes already deployed. The Cabinet will meet Tuesday to authorize curfews "wherever it is necessary," he said.
...
Local government officials will be able to impose curfews "if they think it will be useful to permit a return to calm and ensure the protection of residents. That is our No. 1 responsibility," the prime minister said.
A Socialist opposition leader, Francois Hollande, said his party would closely watch to make sure the curfew law is applied properly. "This law cannot be applied everywhere, and it cannot be long-lasting," Hollande said. He said Villepin should have put more emphasis on improving life in tough neighborhoods and said the premier's proposals were vague.
Villepin said he wanted to speed up a $35.5 billion urban redevelopment plan, triple the number of merit scholarships for talented students and offer jobs, training or internships to disadvantaged young people. "We must offer them hope and a future," he said. Rest at link.
Posted by: ed ||
11/07/2005 17:30 ||
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#1
brilliant. Offer them rewards for their bad behavior before the fighting even starts. Keep rampaging and Villianpinhead might even give you each a pony.
#6
Over 10,000 cars have now been firebombed. French insurance companies must be taking a bath. And you KNOW how much they must be hating that*!
*when describing french reactions, one must always resort to using the passive voice, no?
Posted by: Dave ||
11/07/2005 19:19 Comments ||
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#7
Here is a new spin from the WaPo. Via Drudge:
The unrest, involving poor whites as well as French-born citizens of Arab or African origin.
The "Poor Whites" is a new one on me...
Have I missed something regarding this French Mess? Has anyone else following this joke heard anything like this before regarding "poor whites"?
#11
Won't strict curfews put a damper on mid-night basketball?
I think next year's Tour will be dubbed "the Cycle of Violence."
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/07/2005 21:03 Comments ||
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#12
Won't strict curfews put a damper on mid-night basketball?
In keeping with PM Villepin's $35.5 billion urban redevelopment plan for disadvantaged young people, Midnight basketball will continue at it's normal time. Players and spectators are exempt from the "mandetory" curfew.
#13
12 days to impose curfews and state-of-emergency law? Hell fire, it only took 2 days or so in Berkeley back in 1968. And de Vellepin sez that he is gonna right all the wrongs with $35 billion? There's a gonna be a whole lot more burnin' to bring up the price tag. Just un 'friggin' believable.
So what is John Friggin' Kerry have to say about ********THIS********?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/07/2005 21:45 Comments ||
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#14
France will impose curfews under a state-of-emergency law and..
The question is, are they willing to enforce it by whatever means are necessary?
BRUSSELS â Vandals set fire to five cars in central Brussels on Sunday night, but officials quickly downplayed any link to the wave of violence sweeping neighbouring France.
Belgian police said the vehicles were destroyed near the Brussels South train station, an area with a large immigrant population. "We are talking about arson," police spokesman Albert Roossens told news agency AFP. The cars were parked in the Romestraat, the Hollandstraat and Jacques Francksquare. The fires were lit shortly before 11pm and fire brigade authorities were called in. No injuries were reported.
Police said there were no clashes between youth and police and no arrests were made. There were several groups of youths sighted in the area, but the situation remained calm, Flemish newspaper 'De Standaard' reported. Rest at link.
Posted by: ed ||
11/07/2005 17:27 ||
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Who needs a link? Do these Belgian Bonbons think they have ID cards or something? The "enclaves" exist all over Western Europe - wherever the social programs are best - and will play if they have the critical mass and the stupidity. If they do, well, the regular folks had better buckle up, it's gonna be a bumpy ride. You're defenseless and your Govts are toothless. C'est la vie, baby.
BERLIN - More police were ordered onto the streets of the German capital Monday after five cars were set on fire in a poor district - fuelling fears of copycat violence like the rioting sweeping France. "The extra patrols are a preventive measure," said Berlin police spokesman.
The cars were burned in five separate streets in Berlin's Moabit district, a poor region with a high number of foreigners a few kilometres from the central government district. Nobody was injured in the attacks. Police said nobody had claimed responsibility for the attacks and that all possible motives were being investigated. Rest at link.
Posted by: ed ||
11/07/2005 17:25 ||
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#1
hmmm. The barbecues may be fun in Paris, and Brussels Madrid and possilby even Amsterdam, but I wouldn't go trying this in Germany. They aren't from the same stock.
PARIS (AP) - Rioters in the southern French city of Toulouse set fire to a bus after sundown Monday, then pelted police with Molotov cocktails and rocks, a local official said. The rioters stopped the bus and ordered the driver to step out, then set the vehicle afire, said Francis Soutric, chief of staff at the regional prefecture in Toulouse. No passengers were inside. Clashes broke out when riot police arrived on the scene, and officers responded with tear gas bombs, he said.
Additional: Police used tear gas in Toulouse Monday night against rioters hurling heavy rocks and petrol bombs at them. A bus there was the last of more than 5,000 vehicles burned in the 11-day wave of unrest
The mayor of Raincy east of Paris, imposed a night curfew after the government failed to crack down on marauding gangs. The unrest claimed its first fatality, a 61-man beaten by a youth in the Paris suburb of Stains. Almost every town in France is gripped with peaking violence against cars, schools, buses, churches, paramedics, ambulances and police amid rising calls to bring in the army. Sunday night in Grigny south of Paris, 36 police were injured by the first gunshots fired in the 11-day riots. There are serious fears for investments and tourism in France after Japan, UK, Russia and Australia joined the US in warning citizens to avoid spreading riot centers.
See Paris as it sizzles
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 14:03 ||
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#1
Toulouse, eh?
I wonder: Is Airbus going to fall even further behind on their A380 deliveries? Stay tuned.
#2
One of the side effects of getting news from the 'net is less awareness of what the TV networks are running with. How much video is France getting? Are we seeing any footage of the actual events, or are they running with file footage and talking heads?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/07/2005 14:21 Comments ||
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#3
That's "seezles."
Posted by: Curt Simon ||
11/07/2005 14:38 Comments ||
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#4
They aren't running with much Robert. FoxNews has the most, and it is only a 5 minute report of car burning and some firemen putting out fires. Most of the other MSM news sites are going "Riots continue in France. In other news, will Rove be fired?"
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/07/2005 15:31 Comments ||
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#6
I was starting to overcome my distaste for things French and feel sorry for the poor fools, but then I read the French Connection to Joe Wilson and his antics.
Maybe in another couple of months I'll start to feel bad again - if France still exists.
Posted by: Bobby ||
11/07/2005 15:34 Comments ||
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#8
Open question: will the rioters start going after bigger targets? They are obviously focusing on vehicle arson, but with their success so far, you would think that they would start to get more ambitious. I'm thinking of the Detroit "Hell Nights" of years ago, in which many abandoned buildings were set on fire.
Another big step would be if they attacked industrial targets. There are thousands of targets like warehouses full of plastics, large maintenance facilities, paint stores, etc., that would literally cast a pall over all of Paris. They are poorly guarded at night, and would be easy prey for an arson gang.
#10
Seafarious---according to Wrechard's map of insurrection hotspots, Cannes has been torched, too. So your suggestion that Kofi and the UN take on the problem and have lunch there is out.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/07/2005 16:32 Comments ||
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#15
Interesting. They stopped an empty bus, fired it up and this time waited around for the responders to come and them attacked them. Last night it was shotguns, tonight Molotovs. They've got the first responders tired, pissed off, humiliated, and unsure of support from their superiors. And now they attack. I'd call it a pretty good plan if this weren't spontaneous.
#16
@ Thrinenter Phaigum4795 : the Metula News Agency, a french language jewish news agency has a very interesting article about those tactics (for sucribers, but posted here anyway http://www.aipj-news.net/articles.php?num=132), though its actual point is about the under-reporting of the french msm.
At Grigny-en-Essonne, a small group of rioters set fire to vehicles.
When about 25 riot cops came to the scene to check, they were ambushed and surrounded by a group of about 100 rioters hiding in the area, with stones, firebombs, and firearms (that's during that ambush that 2 policemen were wounded by buckshot, and apparently without their bulletproof jacket, they'd be dead).
When the riot cops reinforcement, 35 more policemen, came in to bail their pals out... the rioters engaged reinforcements of their own, 100 more rioters, trapping the back-up force too!
All in all, the two riot police units were trapped for 2 hours and went out of ammo, so they had to coninue fighting by throwning back projectiles they received, all the while being shot at with shotguns (and handguns too, according to some sources)!
They were finally rescued by an another unit, and had to flee the area, leaving the rioters triumphant.
According to the officers involved, this was a "killing ambush", in which the goal to shed the blood of the police units involved.
#19
Re film footage. BBC World news had some footage from today's events in France. But to offset the negative image of socialist utopia they also did a hit piece on the US. It was a report on some study that was done that showed that the US has a very low social mobility compared to Canada, Europe. Contained phrases like "But this is America, where there is a sharp divide between haves and have-nots." Also commented that the 500,000 immigrants coming to America each year are deluding themselves. BBC World - an alternative reality.
Posted by: jolly roger ||
11/07/2005 18:41 Comments ||
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#20
Beirut meets Lord of the Flies.
Here's what happens when kids raised on Mohammedism intersect with years of police indifference.
Computer translation
The public chain decided not to more announce in its national newspapers the number of burnt cars
It is what declared in charge Monday the assistant general manager of the information of France 3, Paul Nahon.
According to him, it is still possible to cover urban violences "with the proviso of doing it with understanding, with responsibility". "One puts tous.les.jours questions, since 11 days", it underlined on Europe 1.
"This role of the image is present in our spirit since the beginning (...) Each day, our tactic evolves/moves. For example, the question which one put today very concretely, it is to know if one continues to give the number of cars which burn ", explained Mr. Nahon.
"How one covers? What does one have to show, to pay? One it right to make self-censorship, censure? Does one have all to show, all to explain? Here with what one has been confronted for 11 days ", Mr. Nahon specified.
Questioned on the analysis of the association S.O.S Racism which reproached Sunday certain media for introducing urban violences "like a civil war" and the inhabitants of the suburbs like "savages", Mr. Nahon affirmed that, "for France 3 and France 2, they is false".
More media censorship on the way
posted by U*2 @ 1:17 PM
French cable TV news channel i-tele is openly considering showing fewer images and less video footage of the riots claiming that such coverage might be fanning the flames. The fact is that they do not want to continue showing what the French citizenry is really like in these battling suburbs. The last two days have given free reign to images of violent vulgarity spouting youths, vowing vengeance on French society, along with a new media figure -- the djellaba garbed neighborhood mediators who claim they will not deal with Sarkozy.
Protection from bruised feelings reality sought
posted by Joe N. @ 1:46 PM
Another tale from the land of the cultural exception.
LCI: unknown meaningful people (the brave enarchy) are cheesed off that CNN and Russian TV networks are covering Francifada.
How DARE anyone else know about this!
French Journalists' "Concerns": A Desire to Put Events "Into Perspective", to Not Pour "Oil on the Fire", and to "Appease" posted by Erik @ 4:04 AM
Responsable de l'information sur France Inter, Geneviève Goetzinger insiste sur le "travail permanent de mise en perspective".
writes the AFP (merci à Arcturus)
Putting events "into perspective".
The journalists' "concerns".
A desire to "appease".
Not pouring "oil on the fire".
At the France Inter radio station, it is pointed out that in recent days several programs ⦠have presented the positive experiences taken on a social and a cultural level in the banlieue towns.
Let us be generous for a moment and not call this flagrant censorship (even when media bigwigs turn off their comments section, so as not to show dissenting opinions â running 10-1 against the rioters â to the overriding "correct" thought of hand-wringing compassion with humiliated French youth).
As it happens, whenever a drama befalls the United States, there are few voices asking to put the events in question into perspective.
As for "positive experiences", a Wall Street Journal column and a website have existed for the past couple of years giving the good news from Iraq and Afghanistan, and the least that can be said is that French leaders, citizens, and media outlets have not gone out of the way to broach that subject.
Au contraire, the desire to put things into perspective rarely touches Uncle Sam, as the following in-depth articles can ascertain.
The 60th Anniversary Celebration of Le Monde
The daily's Iraq coverage
The daily's TV guide
The daily's film reviews
The daily's VIP portraits
The daily's Le Monde 2 magazine
The daily's Letters to the Editor section
The daily's 60 years in 60 articles series
The daily's birth and origins
Talk radio and web forums are coming down squarely in favor of Interior Minister Sarkozy with calls for a heavy hand when dealing with rioters.
Remember that Sarkozy is not fully French, in that he is the son of Hungarian immigrants. He may still have his family jewels attached. He would therefore stand out amongst the castrati like Chirac and DeVillepin.
#3
Sarko is right wing only by french standards (he's somewhat pro free-market and atlantist), but he's also a media whore, pro-islam (he wishes to "accomodate" the 1905 law on Church-State separation so mosque can be funded by the State, to enforce affirmative action geared toward muslims,...), he's on a quest for the presidency. Some say he's a "young Jacques Shiraq".
Of course, "de Villepin" is his rival, and a complete POS.
In the media race, JFM is right to say that the "progresssist" establishment has sided with "De Villepin" against thim, so I guess that's something positive to be said for Sarko; in this whole mess he may adopt a tough stance (though the gvt apparently chosed the other way around), but I still don't like him much.
Sad when you imagine he's so far the only credible alternative in conservative mvt.
#5
I'm sure that the members of the press will be equally understanding when the violence spreads to their own homes, cars and tv stations... which it will. I won't feel any sympathy for any of them.
When the news is censored people go to real sources of news, not the state medja. When they find real news (i.e. the future is less suprising) they do not go back.
Rome, 7 Nov. (AKI) - A new message threatening Italy with attacks involving surface-to-air missiles or poisonous substances has appeared on Islamic internet forums linked to the al-Qaeda terror network. The threat is made under the name of Sayf al-Adel, one of al-Qaeda's main leaders, who disappeared after the US invasion of Afghanistan and who, experts believe, is currently in hiding or in prison in Iran. However, Italian interior minister Giuseppe Pisanu played down the threat, saying there was no cause for excessive alarm.
Both the title and the content of the message make reference to a news story reported a couple of weeks ago, about rumours that Osama bin Laden had been killed in the earthquake which struck Pakistani Kashmir last month. The title of the message talks of "good news which, God willing, will arrive soon from the land of the Romans". This comes "from your brother Sayf al-Adel to all those who have said that Sheikh Osama bin Laden died in the Pakistan earthquake, was arrested or fell ill," the statement says.
The militant then states that "these reports are only the fruit of a media war. Sheikh Osama bin Laden is well and in a safe place, and we will soon see him during the Christmas holidays in the land of the Romans, after the next attack in Europe, which will primarily regard Italy."
The message suggests that Italy or another European country is due to be attacked around Christmas and that such an attack will be immediately followed by a message from Osama bin Laden. It has been almost a year since the last audio message attributed to the al-Qaeda leader appeared, and more than a year since he made his last video message.
The message on the forum goes on to provide details of what form the attack on Italy might take. In particular it talks of the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigade as the operative cell due to 'take care of' Italy.
"You will see the attacks of the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades at the heart of the country," the message continues. "The brothers who are there have assured us that the Brigades have managed to get hold of surface-to-air missiles from Chechnya and these missiles were used last year in the attacks against airports in Great Britain. They have also managed to obtain a quantity of poisonous material to create bombs. God willing, there will be no security in the land of the Romans and the war will be long."
No attacks are known to have been successfully carried out on any airport in Britain, but a month ago, US president George W. Bush said in a speech that the US and "several partners" had disrupted a plot to attack London's Heathrow airport, using a commercial airliner hijacked from a country where security levels were not so high which would be flown into an airport terminal. British newspaper The Sunday Times said the British security services had "detailed intelligence" in February 2003 about a two-pronged plan which also involved a "mortar attack" on a departing plane.
The latest message on the Internet forum then goes on to announce that there will be "news in the next few days and for this we bless our brothers and our Sheikh Suleyman Abu Ghaith for the new birth." The reference to Abu Gheith, a former al-Qaeda spokesman who also disappeared in 2002 (believed to have been arrested in Iran together with al-Adel and one of bin Laden's sons) may not be a casual one. In congratulating Abu Gheith, possibly over the birth of a new son, the author could be trying prove that he really is Sayf al-Adel.
On Monday, the Italian interior minister downplayed the importance of the message, saying it was very short and ungrammatical and "the author could be a Jihadist net surfer who closely follows the European news regarding political violence and draws on it for his message." "Therefore this does not heighten or dampen the terror threat, which continues to cast a shadow over Europe and Italy. For this reason we will continue to keep up our guard."
Italy has the fourth largest contingent of troops in Iraq after the US, Britain and South Korea, though in September three hundred of the 3,000 soldiers were withdrawn. Islamic militants have issued several threats against Italy over the past two years. The Italian authorities have stepped up security around the country's main landmarks and in recent months have carried out simulations of terror attacks Milan and Rome.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 10:33 ||
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#1
Italy Downplays Al-Qaeda Christmas Threat
Other famous headlines:
US Naval Command downplays threat to Pearl Harbor, Dec. 1, 1941
Allies Say Germans Incapable of Offensive Operations on the Western Front; "We'll be home by Christmas" says Gen Eisenhower, Dec. 14, 1944
Gen. Rommel: "Allied Invasion Force Will Land at Calais, Not Normandy Beaches", May 10, 1944
Julius Caesar: "I Trust My Fellow Senators That Turning My Back to Them is Unthinkable" March 14 BC
A night of rioting in France has left 1,408 vehicles burnt out and resulted in 395 arrests - the highest tolls yet in 11 nights of unrest. Ten policemen were injured by shots and stones when they confronted 200 rioters in the Paris suburb of Grigny, with two policemen seriously hurt.
President Jacques Chirac has said restoring order is his top priority.
Sure, now he tells us.
Meanwhile a man who fell into a coma after being beaten last week is thought to be the first fatality of the unrest. Jean-Jacques Le Chenadec, 61, was reportedly struck by a hooded man in the street after he and a neighbour went to inspect damage to bins near their apartment block in the town of Stains, in the Seine-Saint-Denis region outside Paris.
Muslim leaders of African and Arab communities have also issued a fatwa, or religious order, against the riots. "It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others," the fatwa by the Union of Islamic Organisations in France said.
That's working well, isn't it.
Hundreds of cars were set on fire in different towns on Sunday night, and police had to use tear gas to disperse a club-wielding mob in Toulouse.
Wouldn't things be a little better if the French had some club-wielding police?
Mr Sarkozy's oft-cited description of urban vandals as "rabble" (racaille) a few days before the riots began is said by many to have fuelled tensions. Despite the controversy over Mr Sarkozy's remarks, a CSA opinion poll published in Le Parisien at the weekend showed him with a nationwide approval rating of 57%.
Police under attack
The two police officers were injured by gunfire in what police described as an "ambush" in Grigny late on Sunday. They were taken to hospital with wounds to the leg and throat.
Police chiefs said their men were being deliberately confronted by gangs apparently intent on fighting them. "They really shot at officers, said local police commander Bernard Franio. "This is real, serious violence - not like the previous nights. I'm very worried because this is mounting."
In the southern city of Toulouse, police fired tear gas grenades to push back rioters and violent attacks were also reported in Marseille, Saint-Etienne and Lille.
Of the 1,408 vehicles burnt, 982 were attacked outside the Paris region as the "shock wave" from the Paris region reached the provinces, in the words of national police chief Michel Gaudin.
"The law must have the last word," Mr Chirac told reporters in his first public address on the violence on Sunday. He promised arrest, trials and punishment for perpetrators but added that "respect for all, justice and equal opportunity," were needed to end the unrest.
Mr Chirac had faced criticism from opposition politicians for not speaking publicly about the unrest since it began on 27 October.
Calling on mosques to restore order "validates the postulate that Islam is the answer to everything," says Dounia Bouzar, author of several books on French Muslims.
#2
Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the
following multiple choice test. The events are actual
events from history. They actually happened!!!
Do you remember?
1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by
a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and
40
2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were
kidnapped and massacred by
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were
kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown
up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked
and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and
thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and
a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was
murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first
time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania
were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild
Bill's women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were
used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers
and of the remaini! ng two, one crashed into the US
Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the
passengers.
Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer
Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in
Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and
murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of
17 and 40
#3
It's a good thing our (US) Iraq flypaper stratagy has attracted and captured or killed dozens of "french" operatives trying to join Al Queda's efforts in Iraq. Otherwise they would still be in france helping, guiding, and training the mob de jour.
So far that is. Just because they are evil doesn't mean they have to stay stupid. Sooner or later the dual lessons of go to Iraq and get killed or captured or stay home and shoot/firebomb without repercussion are going to sink in.
Posted by: Dave ||
11/07/2005 10:06 Comments ||
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#4
Brilliant, funny thanks Clolutle Slans5753. First shot in Eurabian War.
#5
Clolutle Slans, point taken about the Muslim male extremist thing. However, regarding your point 1, Sirhan Bishara Sirhan who shot Robert Kennedy was a Palestinian Christian.
#6
It's a good thing our (US) Iraq flypaper stratagy has attracted and captured or killed dozens of "french" operatives trying to join Al Queda's efforts in Iraq. Otherwise they would still be in france helping, guiding, and training the mob de jour.
One wonders if we're near reaching the point at which intrepid young jihadis will choose to travel to Paris to fight rather than Iraq. Surely facing neutered French authorities in Paris would be preferable to facing US Marines in the deserts of Iraq.
#8
"Muslim leaders of African and Arab communities have also issued a fatwa, or religious order, against the riots. "It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others," the fatwa by the Union of Islamic Organisations in France said."
The operative word here is " blindly". Must mean they have a plan. Then they can do what they want if they have a plan. because, that means they are not "blindly" doing anything.
I suspect some cars belonging to some Imans or moslem businessfolk got torched and this Fatwa was rushed into being. The rioters were trying to avoid torching mosques or hallal shops but couldn't figure out which car belong to an infidel and which belongs to a believer.
#10
There ya go, plainslow. "Blindly" is the escape clause. It's a nuance thing. Ima sure that John "Friggin" Kerry can explain the fine print to buddy Chiraq.
BTW, has anyone heard any statements issued by Kerry concerning this *ahem* widespread but random rioting in France? We would like his take on things.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/07/2005 10:50 Comments ||
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#11
Davey Jones is a Muslim extremist?
Posted by: Curt Simon ||
11/07/2005 11:05 Comments ||
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#12
Before we get his take let's tell him that the rioters are registered Democratic voters.
Posted by: Matt ||
11/07/2005 11:06 Comments ||
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Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
11/07/2005 11:08 Comments ||
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#14
The media in this country has from what I have seen been just as guilty as the media in the EU in terms of taking pains not to truelly indentify the rioters. There are actually idiots in this country that think this is about the "French" trying to "protect" their culture from the evil Amis or Anglos. When they learn that the rioters are mostly Arab/African extraction Muslims they act shocked as if they did not know that there are even Muslims living in Europe period
#15
Though they might have reported on it earlier and I missed it (I don't listen every day) NPR's Morning Edition finally reported on the riots. Though they did not, of course, use the "M" word.
And why the ---- did it take Chirac 10 days to say anything publically??
Try to imagine this: Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brownsville, Crown Heights and other areas in and around NYC are hit with riots. It would take the major media all of five minutes to be all over the story, shouting from the rooftops (just as long as they could blame Republicans). And they would not sit still and quiet waiting for Bush to say something.
#16
Muslim leaders of African and Arab communities have also issued a fatwa, or religious order, against the riots. "It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others," the fatwa by the Union of Islamic Organisations in France said.
I'm sure the original full text says something capable of a very different interpretation.
Very Favorable 15%
Slightly Favorable 42% TOTAL FAVORABLE 57%
Slightly Unfavorable 21%
Very Unfavorable 18% TOTAL UNFAVORABLE 39% DONT KNOW 4%
I wonder if we dropped the Arabs questioned out of the poll whether that unfavorable would drop a whole lot?
But there is another part of this survey which inquires about the actions of Sarkozy -
For do each following statement concerning Nicolas Sarkozy, tell me if you agree or do not agree?
He has too much in the media attention:
Agree 73% Disagree 25% Don't Know 2% He emphasizes too much repression and not enough prevention :
Agree 66% Disagree 32% Don't Know 2% He uses term that are shocking to hear from an Interior Minister :
Agree 63% Disagree 35% Don't Know 2% He is concerned about solving problems in France :
Agree 62% Disagree 36% Don't Know 2% His actions are effective against the "insecurity":
Agree 48% Disagree 50% Don't Know 2% He treats all categories (ethnic) Frenchmen equally :
Agree 44% Disagree 43% Don't Know 3%
It seems like there is an appeasement mentalit permeating the entire French nation. I guess they don't want to use the strong medicine necessary, anf that Sarzoky is proposing...
Too much repression? Wait'll some of those fashion houses are shut down by the newly formed Ministry of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, and all the models will be wearing burkas. Then we'll see some REAL repression.
#18
"not blindly" means attacking and defacing clearly visible objects, i.e. identity of the culture. Churches, architectural monuments and large buildings clearly seen from above. 'Cause a picture speaks a thousand words.
#20
I'm sure privately, "W" is smiling with legs crossed over the French Islamic Problem! What goes around, comes around...even for Chirac; blessed are the dice!!
#21
Why stop there Clolutle, You make the Muslim's look downright peaceful. This guy is keeping a list of Muslim Attacks since 9/11. It's a very long list. Scroll down. Religion of Pieces
Rioting by French youths spread to 300 towns overnight and a man hurt in the violence died of his wounds, the first fatality in 11 days of unrest that has shocked the country, police said Monday. As urban unrest spread to neighboring Belgium and possibly Germany, the French government faced growing criticism for its inability to stop the violence, despite massive police deployment and continued calls for calm.
Posted by: Bobby ||
11/07/2005 09:01 ||
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#3
Up to 800 ghettos as such are told to be in France. So - several more times to go (at least, not including action on neighboring towns close to ghettos)
#4
Concerning the "no go zones"(tm), the latest number I heard last week on radio was 1202 for 2005, IIRC. When the police intelligence evaluation of theses areas started, they were about 100 (including 40 "hardore" where police couldn't go in anymore) in 1991, against 800 (160) ten years later.
So, you see, from 100 to 800 to 1200, the situation is getting more under control by the year...
A man beaten up during violence in a riot-hit suburb north of Paris died of his injuries on Monday, an Interior Ministry spokesman said.
Jean-Jacques Le Chenadec, who was attacked on Friday evening and had been in a coma since then, was the first person to die during the unrest that began on October 27.
The ministry gave no details but Le Parisien newspaper said the man was 60 and had been attacked by a youth outside his home in the suburb of Stains.
#1
In Kentucky, if we have a problem with coyotes, we shoot one and hang it on the fence. The smell (and probably the sight) of the the rotting coyote scares all the others away. Maybe the french should get their old shotguns out of the closet and hang themselves a coyote of their own on the fence.
#4
No, I think they are quite proud of beating him. He dared to oppose them by trying to put out a fire they had set.
Re: Crips & Bloods - I lived in LA during the cocaine gang wars. It was bloody. Things may come to that in France sooner than anyone would like, I fear. Let's hope not.
#10
2 b : not that I know.
Jean-Jacques le Chenadec sounds more like a britanny name; just an average joe ho had his skull bashed in for being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Note he might actually be the second death so far, they was a fire in an hotel in the 2 to 3 night at Besançon, and one person died. The investigators found evidence this was actually arson and may be related to the unrest. Also, from what I've read (I've not looked for confirmation or anything, an off-duty 21 years old policeman was found dead in front of his home with a wound in his head, could be related too, who knows?).
The worst night yet: 1400 cars burned, 395 arrests, 36 police injured, violence in over 40 areas around the country .... note the first mention of attack on a church
PARIS, Nov 7 (AFP) - Riots in France's poor city suburbs appeared to be spiralling out of control Monday after the worst night of violence to date, in which more than 30 police were injured and 1,400 cars burned across the country.
"The shockwave has spread from Paris to the provinces," said Michel Gaudin, director-general of the national police, at a press conference in the capital.
For an 11th night in a row youths predominantly from France's large Arab-Muslim minority rampaged through their out-of-town neighbourhoods, setting fire to vehicles, businesses and public buildings and attacking police with stones and other projectiles.
Police figures showed that 1,408 vehicles were destroyed overnight -- more than previous record of 1,300 on Saturday -- and 395 people arrested. Most of the cars -- nearly 1,000 -- were targetted in towns and cities outside Paris, reflecting the way the violence has spread from its original flashpoint.
In addition 36 policemen were injured overnight -- the worst figure to date -- amid signs that rioters were deliberately seeking out clashes with the security forces.
At Grigny in the southern Paris suburbs two police officers were hospitalised after being hit by gun-shot in what colleagues said was an ambush set by a gang of youths.
"Their aim is to get us. It is to kill policemen," an officer who witnessed the incident told interior mkinister Nicolas Sarkozy who visited their headquarters overnight.
The violence -- with was sparked on October 27 by the accidental deaths of two teenagers in an electrical sub-station in a northern Paris suburb -- has fanned across the country in a nightly ritual of copycat attacks by disaffected youths complaining of economic misery and social discrimination.
Few regions of the country have been spared, with riots Sunday night in the southern towns of Toulouse, Toulon and Draguignan, Strasbourg in the east and Nantes in the west. Tourist centres such as the Loire valley town of Blois and Quimper in Brittany were also hit.
Even the small village of Villedieu-du-Temple, 12km from the southern town of Montauban, saw six postal vehicles destroyed.
Among the targets of the rioters were churches, nursery and primary schools, town-halls and police stations as well as warehouses, car dealerships and a film-studio at AsniÚres outside Paris. In the Normandy city of Rouen rioters used a car as a battering-ram against a police station.
Overall more than 5,000 cars have been burned and more than 1,000 people arrested since the beginning of the trouble, which is the worst to hit France since the May student uprising in 1968.
President Jacques Chirac intervened personally for the first time since the start of the unrest, summoning an inner cabinet meeting Sunday evening and afterwards declaring that "the absolute priority is the reestabishment of security and public order."
"The last word must belong to the law. Those who want to sow violence or fear must be caught, judged and punished," the 72 year-old president said.
Prime minister Dominique de Villepin promised reinforcements for police and said that fast-track justice procedures would be set up to cope with the growing number of arrests. "We will not accept any lawless zone," he said.
Their remarks showed the government's determination to represent a united front, despite initial reservations over the hard line taken by Sarkozy who has been much criticised by protesters and the political left for his uncompromising language.
A leading Muslim group -- the Union of Islamic Organisations in France -- issued a fatwa or formal instruction urging Muslims not to take part in acts of violence. "It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim ... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others," the UOIF said.
The group -- which espouses a radical interpretation of Islam close to the Egypt-based Muslim Brotherhood -- is the largest component of the French Council for the Muslim Religion, the official representative body for Islam in France which was set up by Sarkozy two years ago.
Australia and Japan on Monday joined Britain, Canada, Russia and the United States in issuing public advisories that recommended that tourists to France exercise caution because of the violence.
#1
"It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim ... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others," the UOIF said.
#2
How long before this is partially blamed upon the United States, "anglos" or Bush? The nature of France's dilemma is pretty clear isn't it. I note the article mentions "churches" (plural!) but makes no mention of mosques. The slipspeak offered by the UOIF is typical and underscores the problem. There's a much bigger danger to French culture than Google, McDonald's, the evil Anglo free market system or Hollywood. The question is whether or not the French government will finally articulate it publically and respond affirmatively.
#3
It is apparent that after 11 days of insurrection that the French govt is paralyzed and cannot deal with the situation. So it is up to the citizens to put an end to this. It appears that the French are coming down to two choices to restore order:
*Anarchy
*Vigilantes
None are real attractive alternatives. It is self evident that the government must be changed, but that will take time, which they do not have.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/07/2005 8:33 Comments ||
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#4
How long before this is partially blamed upon the United States, "anglos" or Bush?
I've already seen posts on some blogs trying to lay the blame on "American rap culture." Give it a couple of days before the MSM picks it up.
#8
JFM, I hope you are ok, and any other French readers of Rantburg.
So, is the French government finally going to get serious and clamp down on this, or are they waiting for the rioters to get bored/run out of crap to burn?
Aren't there any riot cops or heavily armed authorities that they can send in there to put it down, or have they decided not to do a damn thing about it?
A few cars were also burnt in the neighborhood, but hardly more than usual. It's one of those things that happen and that you don't really worry about if you live there. This week, it goes on TV if you do it, so of course more are tempted to do so (last night saw 1300 cars burn, up from 900 the previous night), including in provincial cities. There is no coordination of anything, it's just mostly copycats by bored kids who are suddenly getting a lot of attention.
The police toughness is just plain posturing by Sarkozy, as the police know very well who does what in the neighborood and didn't and do not intervene. One reason is actually that the local gangs don't attack so much the locals (or the police) as they fight other gangs from nearby cities for sometimes trange turf or other arcane reasons. Also, there isn't that much violence, but isolated incidents and the spectacular, but mostly harmless, car fires. Firemen say explicitly that they let them burn out rather than intervene, as their interventions only excite the gangs more and have little use (unless the fire presents any danger of spreading, which is rarely the case).
Now one thing to note is that these neighboroods are not ghettos. My aunt lived there most of her life, she was a teacher in a nearby pre-school and has a mostly normal middle class life. There are lots of minorities, lots of kids with dysfunctional families, an obvious lack of jobs, and decrepit buildings, but it's not a rundown place, it's not cut off from the rest of the country, and there is a lot of solidarity between the inhabitants.
This is not to deny that the situation is tense, and that the events of recent nights don't signal some real problems in these neighboroods, but it's not like it's war, ot the "end of France" or a crippling crisis for the country.
#12
Yes, I agree with the "relaxed" account KBK gave (of course, it's *muuuch* easier for sheltered me to say this than for the people who were hurt or lost property, or even had relative killed, like Jean Jacques Le Chenadec, see my comment on the other thread, or possibly a young policeman off duty who was found with his skull bashed in)...
My take is it is only a "surge" on what is otherwise an ongoing, low intensity intifada againt the State authority, this will die out soon enough by itself (from what I've understood, the police has orders "not to be provocative", so all of you who expected a tough stance...), that's what the gvt is hoping for.
What's unsual is duration and international media coverage, not the attacks by themselves (for example molotov cocktails were thrown into a Saint-Etienne buswith passengers, for no apparent reason... but according to the locals, this has already happened twice in recent years, you see my point).
The real danger will come AFTER theses riots, which are so far manageable (though police is overstretched, and after 2 weeks of deployment it will become very difficult), with the gvt appeasing and throwning more money at the problem(25 billions euros are already planned), all this while it has already caved in (for example using islamic mediators, or receiving the head of the Paris Grand mosque and telling "islam had all its plce in France, and was to be treated as an equal"). The msm don't help too.
The 5th Republic is rotting, Shiraq and co are inept, corrupt and undemocratic... and I have no hope in the 2007 presidential elections, in which the socialists or the "conservatives" (sic) will win : business as usual, straight into the wall, demographically, culturally, economically,...
#13
Ohio National Guard shoots four and not another campus building burned. The longer they delay the greater the body count will have to be before sense returns to the street.
#16
KBK's banker friend and anon5089 are right that this is just an increase in the violence the Frence tolerate.
Now, we've done somewhat the same thing with our inner city ghettos insofar as we've ignored the minority-on-minority violence in many neighborhoods - especially after black and other leaders called police racist for patrolling heavily.
What we have NOT tolerated, however, are direct attacks on police and fire personnel. That becomes an attack on the stability and order of the society as a whole. Which is why the Feds have come down very heavily on MS-13 and will continue to do so.
It is the perceived impotence of the French authorities - indeed, their perceived eagerness to placate such violence - that runs the risk of turning what is currently small-time gang stuff around the country into 'urban insurgency'.
Yes, an amorphous muslim identity - excacerbated by direct racism which people with dark skins cannot escape in France if they're poor - plays a role in the attitudes of these boys and young men. And yes, the situation is ripe for exploitation by the Islamacists.
But the trigger for the violence was Sarkozy's move against the drugs trade, arms trafficking and shakedowns in the banlieus. He judged - rightly, as we can see by the reaction - that the French state had lost control of those areas to the gangs and that that was a very dangerous situation to allow to continue.
When gang control of lucrative trades and of territory is challenged, they respond with insurgency. It didn't necessarily work that way in the past, but today's gangs are loosely networked through cell phones, internet, easy travel across national borders. And they get to play the media like a violin for publicity, too.
Check out COL Manwaring's analysis of how street gang activity can -- and has -- morphed into urban insurgency. And then go back and read some of the things Rand and others are saying about gangs and netwar.
And keep in mind that the insurgency in Iraq is built in large part on the violent gangs that Saddam never dismantled, just used.
- ok with the french racism... but do tell, why are the asian minority from SE Asia, and notably Viet Nam or Cambodgia well integrated and in some way, quite on their way to assimilation (from what I know, this is less true of the growing chinese minority, but they're not troublermakers either)?
Why are the inhabitants of the dom-tom (oversea french territories), often black or dark skinned, not discriminated against (in fact, they're heavily involved with administrations, hospitals, police,...)?
Could it be that that racism is also a reaction to a perceived threat?
And I might add that there is an another racism which is all too taboo : the antifrench and antiwhite racism from the african minorities. And this one doesn't manifest itself in "bad looks", job discrimination,.. it manifest in assaults, murders, beating, explicitly racist gangrapes in which the vicitms are raped and being p*ssed on all the while being told they're slut because they're white.
- Re the gang insurgency : from what I've read in a forum, so this is not straight from the horse's mouth, I've understood that there is currently a cannabis shortage in France which might help to explain why the projects have exploded; according to this post, there is a traditionnal summer shortage, when the professional dealer, who are 99% african (80% of the euro cannabis comes from Morocco) go back to the "old country"; this year, notably thanks to an EU agreement with Morocco to eradicate cannabis and to a more effective police action, the suplly has dried up.
This might be a factor; on the other hand, the cocaine trade is booming in France.
Btw, theses guys are not "poor"; they all have subsidies, benefits (a polygamous family, which is supposedly forbidden, but tolerated anyway, may earn up to 9000 euros a month), totally free healthcare,... there is a "black" economy in theses areas which is litterally evaluated at billiosn of euros, it is estimated that over the years about 40 billions of euros have been injected into theses area to built gymnasium, social centers,... all this to buy social peace.
All the perps have designer clothes, gold chains, designer shoes, bmw cars, high tech cell phones,... stop with the "disaffranchised" idea, it's insulting for losers like me who have sh*tty day jobs.
#19
The problem is not Sarkozy being more or less effective but the fact he is being torpedoed by both thge left, the duo Chirac-Villepin and the (heavily infiltrated by far-left French MSM). To give two examples: "Les Guignols" a political Muppet show who has a lot of influence (1) is presenting him dressed like a WWII german general (2). More importantly the troubles are being presnted as the consequence of Sarkozy calling the rioters "scum". In fact he was discussing with a woman in teh affected zone. She called the rioters scum and Sarkozy limited to use the same terms (one of them scum) in his answer. But the French MSM edited the sequence so to make him appear insulting and provocative.
So now Sarkozy's dilemma is that whatever he does has a fair chance of being torpedoed/sabotaged by Chirac/Villepin and misrepresented by the MSM in a such way that it will spread the fire even more.
(1) they had a GREAT part in Chirac defeating right-wing rival Balladur in 1995
(2) BTW those bastards also present Bin Laden as a funny guy and Bush as a destructive lunatic.
#22
I will scream if I read one more time that 1,400 cars burned in one night is just normal crime. 1,400 cars at $20,000 per car is $28-million in damages, not including the headaches and clean-up. Aside from that, I have driven through some of the worst parts of Philadelphia and I have never seen a burned-out car there. Not that it doesn't happen, but NOT 1,400 in a night. France is in denial and is going to suffer longer and worse for it.
You and the family stay safe, OK? If things get bad and you need to, euphemistically speaking, take a long extended tour of North America to see the fall colors, let us know when you'll be in town.
Posted by: Mike ||
11/07/2005 12:36 Comments ||
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#24
If nothing else folks do value their cars, bought, "borrowed" or stolen, in North Philly Darrell.
" . . . These guys are not "poor"; they all have subsidies, benefits (a polygamous family, which is supposedly forbidden, but tolerated anyway, may earn up to 9000 euros a month), totally free healthcare... there is a "black" economy in these areas which is litterally evaluated at billios of euros, it is estimated that over the years about 40 billions of euros have been injected into theses area to built gymnasium, social centers... all this to buy social peace . . . "
Now that just makes a lot more sense, don't it? They're pissed cuz' their drug trade dried up. I was suspicious of their "poverty" when I heard they were coordinating attacks/vandalism on cell phones.
#26
"Les Guignols" a political Muppet show who has a lot of influence
Might I suggest this is a sign of how far things in France have gone? About the only lasting political effect the REAL Muppets had on the US was an odd view of what a Swedish accent sounds like.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/07/2005 14:24 Comments ||
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#27
Sorry if this was brought up in another thread and I missed it, but check out the Rantburg Futures on Muslim Unrest in France...
UPDATE: The WaTimes reports French police are afraid that the gangs will break out the big weapons:
Police officers, exhausted and dispirited after 11 nights of street battles, say their mainly young African and Arab adversaries have access to sophisticated weapons including grenades and could soon begin using them.
A dozen officers were injured, two of them seriously, after being shot with hunting rifles fitted with lead pellets during rioting last night in the suburb of Grigny, south of Paris, police said. Jean-Christophe Carne, president of a police trade union, told The Washington Times before last night's outbreak that police officers were increasingly pessimistic that civic order would be restored anytime soon.
"Most of these kids are being coached by professional petty criminals and gang leaders in the suburbs," said Mr. Carne, president of Action Police CFTC.
"In the past, when we have cracked down on these criminals in their homes, we found drugs, grenades and heavy weapons such as guns. While they haven't started using these arms yet, there's also no reason to think they wouldn't."
From the BBC story:
About 30 policemen have been injured by shots and stones in a Paris suburb - on an 11th night of unrest across France.They were attacked by some 200 rioters in Grigny, south of Paris. Two policemen were seriously injured.The incident came hours after President Jacques Chirac said that restoring order was an "absolute priority".
Hundreds of cars were set on fire in different towns on Sunday night, and police had to use tear gas to disperse a club-wielding mob in Toulouse.
Rioters have burnt nearly 4,000 cars and more than 300 arrests have been made since the unrest began, gripping mostly African and Arab communities.The violence was triggered by the deaths of two youths in the rundown Paris suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois, who were accidentally electrocuted at an electricity sub-station after reportedly fleeing police. Accidentally? They did it themselves...
Targeting police
The two police officers were injured by gunfire in what police described as an "ambush" in Grigny late on Sunday.
There are similar scenes across French cities
They were reportedly taken to hospital with wounds to the leg and throat.Police chiefs said their men were being deliberately confronted by gangs apparently intent on fighting them.
"They really shot at officers. this is real serious violence - not like the previous nights. I'm very worried because this is mounting," senior police officer in the area, Bernard Franio, said. Quelle Surprise!
In the southern city of Toulouse, police fired tear gas grenades to push back rioters.Violent attacks were also reported in Orleans, Rennes and Nantes.
'Determined'
"The law must have the last word," Mr Chirac told reporters in his first public address on the violence on Sunday. What law? Shariah?
Mr Chirac's comments were his first public address on the unrest
"The Republic is quite determined... to be stronger than those who want to sow violence or fear." Then you'd better send in La Legion Etrangere...
Mr Chirac promised arrest, trials and punishment for perpetrators.But he also noted that "respect for all, justice and equal opportunity," were needed to end the unrest.Mr Chirac has faced criticism from opposition politicians for not speaking publicly about the unrest since it began on 27 October. His only previous comments came through a spokesman. He couldn't say it in person?
Sunday's remarks came after talks with key ministers including Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, at the presidential palace in Paris. It would appear that it is time to reinstitute "La Fenetre Republicaine," Madame Guillotine.
#1
Ok, it's official. Game over. Hand over the keys to the Louvre, take down the tricolor and put up a banner with "Allahu Akbar" on it, and start praying to Mecca.
If they don't want to defend their own damn country any longer, why keep up the pretense? The tourists aren't going to come while the streets are on fire.....
Are they even trying to fight back, or are they sitting on their asses looking for someone else to save them?
#6
A dozen officers were injured, two of them seriously, after being shot with hunting rifles fitted with lead pellets during rioting last night in the suburb of Grigny
LOL Cluns Cruse3132, did you add that? or is it in WaTimes text?
Posted by: Red Dog ||
11/07/2005 15:06 Comments ||
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#7
In Frawnce, "heavy weapons" means rifles, not arty and tanks.
#8
Red Dog, that's what the story said. Seems they are using shotguns, hence the "lead pellets". Reporter doesn't know his rifle from his gun, if you know what I mean.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 16:01 Comments ||
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MADRID: Spanish judicial authorities want to question a wanted Syrian militant, thought captured in a shootout with Pakistani security forces, over the September 11 attacks in the United States, judicial sources said on Thursday. Pakistani ministers said an Arab Al Qaeda suspect was killed and another was seized in a shootout in Quetta, while playing down reports that Syrian-born Mustafa Setmariam Nasar, who has dual Syrian-Spanish nationality, was one of the two.
According to the Spanish sources the high court will press for 47-year-old Nasarâs extradition if he turns out to have been the âforeignerâ captured in Quetta. The Spanish sources added that there were no âobjective elementsâ linking Nasar to the March 11, 2004, train bombings in Madrid - which the media refer to as Spainâs own 9/11 - although some newspapers have tagged him as involved.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/07/2005 00:00 ||
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Chirac Vows Arrests, Trials of Rioters President Jacques Chirac promised Sunday to restore public order across France as unrest spread from suburban Paris to cities south and north, with rioters battling police, throwing Molotov cocktails and ramming a car into a housing project during an 11th night of mayhem.
Good idea, Jacques. So what's the plan?
About 10 police officers were injured, including two seriously, during clashes with hundreds of youths in Grigny in the Essonne region south of the capital, the Interior Ministry said. Officials believe rioters may have fired with a hunting rifle. Across the country, rioters pelted Molotov cocktails at cars and a school, and firefighters in some areas worked under police escort. New unrest was reported in Toulouse in the southwest and Rennes in the northwest.
Not to worry. Jacques is on the case. Why, any minute now, he's gonna... ummm... do something.
Chirac spoke after a security meeting of his top ministers. "The law must have the last word," Chirac said in his first public address on the violence. France is determined "to be stronger than those who want to sow violence or fear, and they will be arrested, judged and punished."
Starting when?
Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin promised speedy trials for rioters and extra security where it was needed.
I guess that's a good idea. Though I'd maybe think about interning them on Bikini Atoll until you get around to having those speedy trials. Wouldn't want to rush things, though; justice must be done. I'd prob'ly have everything ready to go sometime around 2011 or 2012.
Depends on when Carla Del Ponte is available ...
Chirac said France was determined to promote "respect for all, justice and equal opportunities." Violence has been concentrated in poor suburbs with large immigrant populations. "But there is a precondition, a priority, I repeat," he said. "That is the restoring of security and public order."
Oh. He wants them to stop. He's not going to stop them, so they'll have to do it themselves, which'll probably be when they run out of gasoline for their Molotov cocktails or they get their way.
The French president had faced criticism from opposition politicians for not publicly speaking about France's worst civil unrest in more than a decade. His only previous comments came through a spokesman. The violence has escalated from an outburst of anger in suburban Paris housing projects into a nationwide show of disdain for French authority from youths and minorities, most French-born children of Arab and black Africans angered by years of unequal opportunities. Youths set ablaze nearly 1,300 vehicles and torched businesses, schools and symbols of French authority, including post offices and provincial police stations, late Saturday and early Sunday. The violence reached the well-guarded French capital Saturday night. Police said 35 cars were torched, most on the city's northern and southern edges. In the city center, gasoline bombs damaged three cars near Place de la Republique. Residents reported a loud explosion and flames. "We were very afraid," said Annie Partouche, 55, who watched the cars burning from her apartment window. "We were afraid to leave the building."
Well, Annie, boyz will be boyz. There's really nothing you can do, is there? Make sure you vote for Jacques and his party next time, though. I'm sure they'll take care of you one of these times...
In Evreux, 60 miles west of Paris, five police officers and three firefighters were injured in clashes with youths who destroyed at least 50 vehicles, shops and businesses, a post office and two schools, authorities said. "Rioters attacked us with baseball bats," said Philippe Jofres, a deputy fire chief, told France-2 television. "We were attacked with pick axes. It was war."
Then why the hell didn't you shoot back? Firemen have axes and fire hoses and great big trucks...
About 50 cars were burned late Sunday in the Seine-Saint-Denis region north of Paris, where the violence first broke out. Arsonists burned a school and a bus in the central city of Saint-Etienne, and transport workers went on strike.
Good move. Kinda typically French.
Much of the youths' anger has focused on law-and-order Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who inflamed passions by referring to troublemakers as "scum."
Musta hurt their feelings. I'm still trying to figure why people's feelings matter to society, rather than their behavior. Sure, it's nice if everybody's all happy and content and that sort of thing, but it seems like it'd be a hopeless task for government to ensure that they are. The best they'll ever do is to make a majority happy and content, because there will always be nutballs in the world who couldn't be happy sitting in Grandmaw's lap eating an ice cream and looking at their new ponies. It seems a far more attainable goal for government to provide a fair and moderate set of laws and then strictly enforce adherence to them, letting the individual worry about whether he/she/it is having a bad day.
In Strasbourg, youths stole a car and rammed it into a housing project, setting the vehicle and the building on fire.
I'm way too simplistic. To me, it would seem reasonable for the local gendarmerie to hunt them down and shoot them for that.
"We'll stop when Sarkozy steps down," said the defiant 17-year-old driver, identifying himself as Murat. He and several others were in police custody as smoke poured from the windows of the housing project behind them.
I do hope the police were thumping knobs on their heads, but since Murat was shooting off his mouth I'm assuming they weren't.
Arsonists burned 1,295 vehicles nationwide overnight Saturday, national police spokesman Patrick Hamon said, adding that police made 349 arrests.
A polite arrest isn't a punishment. A concussion is punishment. If Murat knows he's going to get arrested and held for a short time, then let out, he's not worried. If Murat knows that when the coppers catch him they're going to crack his skull, and then arrest him when he gets out of the hospital, he's worried.
For a second night, a helicopter equipped with spotlights and video cameras to track bands of marauding youths combed Paris suburbs, and small teams of police chased rioters speeding from attack to attack in cars and on motorbikes. "What we notice is that the bands of youths are, little by little, getting more organized," arranging attacks through cell phone text messages and learning how to make gasoline bombs, Hamon said.
What I notice is that you're not shooting them down like mad dogs...
Police also found a gasoline bomb-making factory in a derelict building in Evry south of Paris. They confiscated 50 devices, fuel stocks and hoods for hiding rioters' faces, senior Justice Ministry official Jean-Marie Huet told The Associated Press. Police arrested six people, all under 18.
Where'd the hoods come from? Did somebody hold up a hooderie? Or did somebody provide them?Have the six people, all under 18, been severely slapped around to make them provide the names, addresses, and shoe sizes of the organizers?
The discovery Saturday night, he said, shows that gasoline bombs "are not being improvised by kids in their bathrooms."
Comes as a surprise, huh? I know. Floored me, too.
Police said copycat attacks are fanning the unrest but had no evidence of separate gangs coordinating. Officials said older youths, many already with police records, appear to be teaching younger teens arson techniques. Unrest extended west to Normandy and south to Nice and Cannes on the Mediterranean coast, with attacks in and around Lyon, Lille, Marseille and Strasbourg. In all, at least 3,300 buses, cars and other vehicles have been incinerated since the unrest started Oct. 27, the police spokesman said. Government officials have held a series of meetings with Muslim religious leaders, local officials and youths from poor suburbs to try to calm the violence.
Working well, isn't it? Though I'll bet a bit of state-sponsored terrorism would work better.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/07/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Great comments.
into a nationwide show of disdain for French authority from youths
#3
For some reason I'm reminded of BUGS BUNNY versus BLACQUE JACQUE SHELLACQUE: :"April Showers", and Dat Rabbitte is no ordinaire' rabbitte", or words to that effect. Other than making the eastern tip of EURASIA safe for Mother Sheehan and her Commie Airborne, the rioters want jobs but French = Euro-Socialism just can't unilaterally give them any no matter what the political rhetoric. The Muslims know that unless something changes, the entire Muslim universe is about to denigrate into another Black Africa andor Communist-style irrelevancy and implosion. The Mullah-ocracy has only taught them to take from others, NOT to interact, build, or learn for themselves, by and for themselves - they're screwed once whatever TEMPORARY WEALTH-CREDIBILITY they got from the forced, violent taking of the lands, wealth, women, .....@ and pet dogs, etc. of the infidels is used up.
JM..The Muslims know that unless something changes, the entire Muslim universe is about to denigrate into another Black Africa andor Communist-style irrelevancy and implosion.
So true.
#10
3dc...the problem with the French is that not only have taken eating things like snails, frogs, truffles and crow to a fine art....they really like it!
Understatement of the DayWeek Month: "If we don't take the appropriate measures right away, things could get way out of proportion," said Stephane Ribou, a police spokesman in Rennes.
When one's most outrageous, hyperbolic, "get everyone's attention" attacks on Euro leadership turn out to have fallen short of the mark, one doesn't know whether to laugh or cry.
#15
Ok, the man who was in the coma, Jean-Jacques Le Chenadec (61), after being beaten for protesting an arson near his house has just died, that would make the first death, but so far media refuse to link it with the events. Very sad.
A 13 months baby was wounded by stones pelted at a bus; two churches were torched (a synagogue already was firebombed earlier), in addition to various public buildings (including schools and two police stations) and businesses or warehouses.
About 30 police officers were hurt, there was numerous reports of shots fired at them, resulting in two buckshot wounds in Griny (non life-threatening, they fired from afar) : ye good ol' 12 gauge pump action shotgun, le bon vieux pompeux des familles, plenty of them in France and especially in working class areas, they were sold in supermarket with no permit or declaration required until the mid 90's, with policemen exhibiting spent shells... note that some internet french msm website incorrectly talk of "pistolet à grenaille", a "pistolet à grenaille" being a replica firing shots smaller than birdshot, not a real firearm; so again, I don't know if this is voluntary to minimize the info, or just plain stoopidity).
So far the akm and the rpg have not broked out of the weapon caches, but it should be reminded they are proper work tools (attacking armored vehicles, banks, breaking accomplices out of jail like it happened last year,...) and should not be used for fun activities.
About 1000 burnt cars IIUC, plus trucks, bus,... note that As I've mentioned earlier, this is the official figure, taking in account only the initial fires and not the collaterally destroyed vehicles; thus, in a small town, local authorities reported 41 torched cars, while final official national figure published in the press was 11. So, you can probably multiply the numbers by at least 2 or 3 nation-wide.
Speaking of small town, I expressed my forum sympathies to a teen whose family had a fire starting in their small town house, and couldn't get help from the firefighters, because all of them in the department were mobilized to extinguish the multiple arsons in the next big city. Their house burned to the ground, damn.
Mayors start to ask for army intervention, or declaring the state of emergency (one police union asked for it since day two IIRC); Dominique Galouzeau "de Villepin" (who's a man) will go on teevee tonight.
The whole talk now is blaming Sarko for "provoking" the "youths", and for the teargas cannisters supposedly hurled in a mosque (it turns out not only the police say it wasn't her, but the cannister never even made it into the room), which are "of course" the real reasons for the riots.
Media are in full denial, and pols in full infighting mode, this is almost funny.
My take is gvt is playing tiem, hoping it will die out by itself, police has order not ot be proovcative.
There will be a response, but it will be appeasment and money-throwning, like I feared/knew from the start, "de Villepin" said that the "(Jean Louis) Borloo plan" (Borloo being the minister of "social cohesion"... remember this is supposedly a *conservative* gvt...) will be rushed... it involves throwing up to 25 billions euros at theses areas.
#16
I have found the rioters blaming Sarkozy (at least according to press accounts) to be fascinating - only a Muzlim or socialist, someone living in the abstract, totally consumed with symbols and utterly disconnected from reality, would make such a claim and expect anyone to fall for it, lol. I presume it could prove interesting, given his Presidential ambitions.
#17
You can't appease people who won't be appeased.
This is not so much a clash of civilizations
as it is a crash of civilizations, both francophone and nihilistic islam.
#18
Ya know, an AC-130 or two could end this real quick.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/07/2005 8:04 Comments ||
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#19
Ya know, an AC-130 or two could end this real quick.
No, it couldn't.
I think the rioters are waiting for the use of police violence in order to respond in kind, with heavy weapons. Then they can pretend they're only responding to police escalation.
Heavy strikes at one or two squads on the ground (IF they could avoid hitting friendlies) while thousands more squads are striking elsewhere wouldn't accomplish anything.
They need to have a substantial ground presence in all of the areas this is happening if they plan on countering it with force. Which pretty much means they need the army on the ground in the cite's or however they're spelled.
Posted by: Phil ||
11/07/2005 9:24 Comments ||
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#20
And I use the word "squad" on purpose after much thought.
Posted by: Phil ||
11/07/2005 9:27 Comments ||
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Which brings to mind my suggestions about what they _should_ be doing:
* Get the military involved, to provide the cops with more manpower.
* Use that manpower to pursue an "oil drop" strategy; proactively set up small regions inside the cite's that they _do_ control and that will have law and order and slowly expand them according to traditional police or military pacification techniques. (I forget where I first read the "oil drop" or "oil spot" analogy... anyone have a convenient link?)
* The areas that are in revolt, that the gangs still control...
NO SOCIAL ASSISTANCE.
That's for groups that aren't attacking the middle class which pays most of the taxes that keeps the gravy train on the tracks. They gotta stand up and say "YOU WANT THE MILLET SYSTEM? FINE. HERE'S A FIRST STEP: THERE WASN'T ANY WELFARE IN THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE."
That last bit would be crucially important. IMHO.
Posted by: Phil ||
11/07/2005 9:43 Comments ||
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Appeasement and collaboration citizens?
Posted by: H. Petain, III ||
11/07/2005 10:31 Comments ||
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#23
Good thing you stayed out of Iraq, Jake.
Looks like Iraq came to you instead...
#25
Sarkozy was cracking down on their drug trade. That's why they want him out. If the French/Danes/Belgians don't stand up to this, it will very much embolden Moslems to do the same all over Europe. It's "fun" for these "youths" to riot and flex their muscle, so they're going to keep on until Daddy Takes Their T-Bird away . . . :)
#26
Then why the hell didn't you shoot back? Firemen have axes and fire hoses and great big trucks
Silly Imperialist American, neo-con, capitalist pig, radical cristian, Cowboy. dont you know that killing terrorist only make more terrorist, and dont you know the "cycle of violence" it is way to Nueanced than such simple black or white more of a light gray, No Pea Wee the true answer is more concesions because everyone knows that if we just make them all rich and healthy and not make them work they will not hate us anymore why just look at Saudi Arabia they are rich and peacefull right. Besides it is really all our fault so we should be punished and forced to pay reperations and concesions. Its all our great great great great grandfathers intolerance or X retard excuse on why they hate us crap self hatred. I think their is a name for kidnap victims that end up loving thier victimizer from some self laothing cycotic brain disfunction.
#30
Ya know, an AC-130 or two could end this real quick.
No, it couldn't.
Phil, I have to agree with RC on this one. It would probably take about a dozen of them, but it would certainly put an end to the entire mess. When that 105MM on the tailgate starts talking, EVERYBODY listens! Or if you rake an area with 20mm gattling guns, you lose street, housefronts, and every window up to the 55th floor - plus the floors INSIDE the buildings. Even the 7.62 miniguns can turn an entire "street" into smoking rubble in one pass. The only limits would be the amount of ammo they could carry, and how fast they can turn around. Even dumping the empty cartridges out the back would cause damage. There's no place to hide from the night-vision scopes, and they can hose down the neighborhood from 12,000, 13,000 feet - too high for most SA-7-type weapons to be effective (besides, the AC's carry flares for that kind of crap).
Rebuilding would not only be difficult, it would have to be done from the basement up.
It would be anal, it would kill both the perps and their parents, and it would result in every LLL perp in the world to go ballistic, but it would put an end to the "fighting" immediately. If you can find them, read what some of the VC say about Spectre - and we've gotten better since then.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/07/2005 20:20 Comments ||
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#31
Hi OP!
I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to kill a bunch of platoons of Hard Boyz (at some cost in collateral damage) IF they managed to get there in time... but I don't think the Pinkys and the Brains running the thing care about losing squads and platoons anyway.
_For this sort of attack_ the AC-130's are a poor substitute for having an armed general populace in France. I'm halfway worried that they'd end up bypassed, just like France's theoretically superior (but operationally inferior) tanks back in the Blitzkreig.
I'm not against the idea of violence per se, as a means of self defense or establishing order... it's just that I think this can be done with less collateral damage and more of a withdrawl-of-carrot type approach.
The French are unlikely to try either, IMHO. I suspect what Chirac wants to do is to blame the mess of Sarkozy, either for being too lenient, or for being provocative, or both. I suspect what they would consider optimum is a situation where Sarkozy is blamed for both, and then pushed into a large-scale violent response. That way the riots get squelched and they can blame him for both their existance and the violence needed to squelch them, a win-win situation.
(Withdrawl of benefits from those most associated with the violence and the geographic areas they control would also be against so many socialist dogmas I can imagine them all having herds of cows on the spot.)
Posted by: Phil ||
11/07/2005 22:00 Comments ||
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#32
On third thought (as if anyone's reading this thread anymore) I think helizapping the organizers would work and work WELL if they could find the right ones. But that's another bovine birth scenario.
Posted by: Phil ||
11/07/2005 22:23 Comments ||
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#33
France must have snipers, still, non?
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/07/2005 22:30 Comments ||
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BUFFALO, N.Y. -- A man suspected of recruiting the "Lackawanna Six" attempted suicide at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where he has been held for more than four years, authorities said. Juma Mohammed Abdul Latif Al Dosari, 31, gashed his arm and hanged himself from a ceiling fixture during a visit with his attorney, Joshua Colangelo-Bryan of New York City on Oct. 15, authorities said.
The head of the FBI in Buffalo would not comment on whether the suicide attempt would impact investigations by his office. He said Al Dosari is the subject of a continuing probe into who recruited and funded a group of young Yemeni-American men from Lackawanna, near Buffalo, who attended an al-Qaida training camp in Afghanistan in May 2001.
"We're aware of this suicide attempt, and we're trying to get more information on what happened," said Peter Ahearn, special agent in charge of the Buffalo office. In the past, Colangelo-Bryan has said Al Dosari, a native of Bahrain, has complained of brutality at the prison.
Al Dosari has not been charged criminally in the case of the Lackawanna Six, all of whom are serving prison sentences of between seven and 10 years after pleading guilty to federal charges. Federal agents and attorneys for at least two of the men have identified Al Dosari as one of the men who recruited Muslims from Lackawanna to travel to the camp. Al Dosari allegedly gave a fiery sermon in early 2001 at the Guidance Mosque in Lackawanna. In court papers filed in October 2004, an attorney for the U.S. Combatant Status Review Tribunals said the tribunal classified Al Dosari as an "enemy combatant" who was "a member of al-Qaida and affiliated with the Taliban militia in Afghanistan." He was arrested in Pakistan in late 2001.
The tribunal also said that Al Dosari had been questioned by Saudi Arabian authorities about the Khobar Towers bombing in 1996 that killed 19 members of the U.S. Air Force. The court documents indicate that Al Dosari has denied any involvement with al-Qaida or terrorism.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 11:54 ||
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#1
Somebody down there ought to show this asshole how to do it right. For next time...
#4
Hanged himself for a bit, did he? I wonder how much brain damage ensued before they got him down... and how aware he is of how much of himself he permanently destroyed. Both of which should make him less resistant to questioning, I imagine.
An article about Chalabi's visit to the US is titled "Iraqi at Center of Discredited Intelligence to Visit U.S." on the cnn.com home page. The article is titled a more reasonable "Chalabi to Visit U.S. Before Iraq Election" after the jump, but the link headline is way biased. I'm shocked! Shocked!
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/07/2005 20:40 ||
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Rome, 7 Nov. (AKI) - A documentary to be aired on Tuesday by Italian state satellite TV channel RAI News 24 alleges that US troops used chemical weapons during their assault on the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah in November last year. The documentary - 'Fallujah - the hidden massacre' - uses witness accounts from former US soldiers, Fallujah residents, video footage and photographs, to support its claim that contrary to US State Department denials, white phosphorous was used indiscriminately on the city, causing terrible injuries to civilians, including women and children.
"I heard the order being issued to be careful because white phosphorous was being used on Fallujah. In military slang this is known as Willy Pete. Phosphorous burns bodies, melting the flesh right down to the bone," says one former US solider, interviewed by the documentary's director, Sigfrido Ranucci.
Wonder if he's anyone we'd know?
"I saw the burned bodies of women and children. The phosophorous explodes and forms a plume. Who ever is within a 150 metre radius has no hope," the former soldier adds.
Was it seared into your brain?
"A rain of fire came down on the city, and people targeted by the different coloured substances began to burn. We found people dead, with strange injuries, with their clothes intact," a biologist from Fallujah, Mohamad Tareq al-Deraji tells Ranucci.
No doubt a un-biased source
The evidence in 'Fallujah - the hidden massacre' claims to show the US forces did not use phosphorous in the legitimate way - to highlight enemy positions - but dropped the substance indiscriminately on the city, and on a massive scale. The documentary also shows the terrible damage wrought by the US bombardment of Fallujah, and the carnage to civilians, some of whom lay sleeping.
Equally disturbingly, a document in the report claims to prove that the U.S. forces have used the MK77 form of Napalm - the chemical used with devastating effect on civilians during the Vietnam war - on civilians in Iraq.
"I had gathered testimonials on the use of phosphorous and Napalm in Iraq from several refugees from Fallujah, and wanted to tell the world about it, but my kidnappers would not allow me to," said Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, held hostage in Iraq earlier this year, during the documentary.
Oh, her. Little Miss Roadblock Runner. Like her "kidnappers" wouldn't have wanted this so-called "war-crime" reported
The use of white phosophorous and Napalm is prohibited by UN conventions. Moroever, the United States signed up to the Chemical Weapons Convention in 1997.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 16:41 ||
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#1
If this isn't just another in a long series of Big Steaming Piles, it's probably just a result of our hitting one of their chemical weapons caches during the attack/assault/siege/thingy.
Posted by: SLO Jim ||
11/07/2005 16:58 Comments ||
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And anyway, there's a difference between a chemical and "chemical weapons."
#3
Last I checked Napalm, WP and Thermobarics are referred to as incendiaries and therefore not subject to the Chemical Weapons conventions. Really I do wish journalists would get a friggin bloody education before spouting off this crap.
#4
"...Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, held hostage in Iraq earlier this year..."
Ahh, there goes any "journalistic" credibility, right out the window.
And those are not "scare" quotemarks... those are "viciously skeptical" quotemarks. Bring on the next propaganda hackette with an improbably embroidered and obviously partisan fantasy.
#5
...In related news US forces in Iraq were being investigated for war crimes. It seems as though some troops have been posting pictures of Janean Garofolo around Falluja in an attempt to unecessarily torture insurgents.
#8
Consumptive agents?
That's COUGH
un COUGH
American.
Posted by: T O Wolfe ||
11/07/2005 19:46 Comments ||
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Really I do wish journalists would get a friggin bloody education before spouting off this crap.
Doesn't matter.
This isn't a report of news. It's propaganda. Like Vietnam-era claims that the Ma-deuce was against the laws of war, the point is to make people think the US committed war crimes.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/07/2005 20:51 Comments ||
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#10
Is Willy Pete really banned? I never felt safer than after throwing a WP granade in Viet Nam. It would sadden me considerably were they to be out-lawed. Willy Pete is a a soldier's best friend.
#11
If I recall correctly, these agents are approved for use against purely military targets, but not if non combatants can be affected. I also seem to recall that the U.S. did not sign this convention.
#12
I don't remember any evidence of Fallujah being the new Dresden. Here are some observations for rational Itailians:
1. Firebombing the city just as the USMC is storming the place would be tactical idiocy.
2. Willy-Pete was useful for couter-attacking Chinese positions on Pork Chop Hill, but would probably be distinctly less useful to troops wearing night vision and with access to the IR spectrum.
3. Does any non-deranged journalist claim that the USMC has access to invisible MOPP gear, because last I checked the Jarheads weren't sporting gas masks as they deloused the Muj-sewer.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/07/2005 21:01 Comments ||
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#13
The use of white phosophorous and Napalm is prohibited by UN conventions. Moroever, the United States signed up to the Chemical Weapons Convention in 1997.
Tell me again whats it say about IED's, suicide bombers in civilian areas, summary execution of non-combatants, and chopping POW's heads off?
#14
WP is kosher. The convention is designed to stop firebombing of cities like Dresden. Though the firebombing of Tokyo would be fine due to military production embedded within the civilian population. BTW, I do remember something about the World Trade Center buildings destroyed, and thousands incinerated, by 100 tons of aviation gas in the two 767's. The firebombing convention was violated on 9/11/2001. After that, I would lose no sleep if any city in the middle east was burned to the ground.
Posted by: ed ||
11/07/2005 22:06 Comments ||
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#16
fine. anything against over-pressure from FAE?
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/07/2005 22:22 Comments ||
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#17
WP makes very nice smoke to mark areas or keep an evil eye off you. It happens to be a nasty to the touch and inhalation. BFD. Each and any weapon can be misused against civilians. Think of all those folks buying munitions across the globe missing out on the 110, 120, 152 or 155mm WP shells that actually have a 150 meter effective radius ("no hope") as an antipersonnel munition in urban settings. Only slight exaggeration maybe?
At least 17 insurgents and one U.S. Marine have been killed in a major offensive continuing near Iraq's border with Syria, the military said on Monday as violence flared elsewhere in Iraq.
The campaign to secure western Iraq against Sunni Arab insurgents and foreign fighters before a December 15 election went into a third day; a suicide car bomber killed six policemen and three civilians in Baghdad's southern Dora district.
Police said another 10 people were wounded in the biggest bomb attack since 29 people were killed in a bombing near a Shi'ite mosque in Mussayib, south of the capital, last week.
Sectarian tensions are dominating campaigning for the elections, where the 20 percent minority Sunni Arabs are expected to vote in large numbers for the first time since the fall of fellow Sunni Saddam Hussein in 2003.
Some Sunnis have accused the Shi'ite and Kurdish-led government and its American backers of killing civilians in offensives like Operation Steel Curtain, the biggest in the mainly Sunni Arab desert province of Anbar since the battle for Falluja a year ago.
CNN quoted troops as saying that between 60 and 80 insurgents had been killed but a military statement put the toll at 17 in and around Qusayba, a dusty, low-lying town where most of the 30,000 residents seemed to have fled.
Al Qaeda's military wing in Iraq said it would target the homes of anyone who "collaborated" with the military or the government and gave the military 24 hours to stop the offensive.
"Their homes shall be brought down on their heads after women and children leave," it said in a statement posted on a Web site used by al Qaeda's Iraq leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
The wording was an echo of Iraq's defence minister, who last week warned that people sheltering rebels would have their homes brought down on the heads of their families.
Several U.S. offensives this year in the Euphrates valley, a green belt running from the border towards the capital, have been aimed at stemming the flow of Islamist militants into Iraq.
Marines said on Monday air strikes at nearby Karabila a week ago killed two al Qaeda leaders. They made no comment on local doctors' statements that up to 40 people died in the raids.
Fakhri al-Qaisi, whose National Dialogue Council is part of a major Sunni bloc contesting the December poll after boycotting January's first post-Saddam vote, called on all Iraqis to stop the killing after he survived an assassination attempt.
Qaisi, whose group has accused the government and its American backers of killing civilians in counter-insurgency operations, was shot five times in Baghdad on Saturday.
"I call on international, Arabic and Islamic communities to take legal measures against those who are targeting Iraqi national figures," Qaisi, whose chest was swathed in bandages, told reporters before leaving for more treatment in Jordan.
Also on Monday, officials said a national reconciliation conference sponsored by the Arab League would likely be delayed while more participants were convinced to attend.
Arab League chief Amr Moussa has promoted the Cairo conference, due to begin on November 15, as a way to ease sectarian tensions. Iraqi officials said the talks would more likely begin towards the end of the month.
Several Shi'ite groups have threatened to boycott the conference if senior members of Saddam's former ruling Baath party and insurgents are invited.
Saddam and seven others are facing trial on charges of crimes against humanity but his defence lawyers, fearful for their lives, called on Monday for his trial to be moved abroad.
Defence lawyer Saadoun al-Janabi was abducted from his Baghdad office and killed by armed men who identified themselves as Interior Ministry employees a day after his court appearance at the start of the trial on October 19.
The government has denied involvement but the killing renewed accusations of sectarian violence involving government forces. Saddam's trial is due to resume on November 28.
In east Baghdad, three people were killed and four wounded in a mortar attack, police said. At least two Iraqi soldiers died and 13 were hurt when a suicide car bomb detonated near soldiers guarding oil pipelines at Thibban north of the capital.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/07/2005 13:20 ||
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Fakhri al-Qaisi...called on all Iraqis to stop the killing after he survived an assassination attempt.
Kinda like the inmates on death-row that suddenly find religion.
#3
BAGHDAD (AFX) - At least one US marine and 36 suspected rebels were reported killed today during fighting in a town near the border with Syria, part of an operation aimed at shattering Al-Qaeda in Iraq ahead of the December general elections. Some 1,000 Iraqi soldiers and a force of 2,500 marines, sailors and soldiers went house-to-house on the third day of their sweep of the restive far western Iraqi town of Husayba.
The 36 suspected insurgents killed include 17 who were reported dead after air strikes on Sunday, the military said, adding that there were no reports of civilian casualties.
The US marine was killed 'by enemy small arms fire' on Sunday while he was 'conducting clearing operations in Husayba,' the military said.
Militants loyal to Al-Qaeda in Iraq however threatened in an internet statement to sharply intensify their campaign of violence unless the offensive ended. The Al-Qaeda statement also promised to destroy the homes of all Iraqi soldiers and government employees in response to recent comments by Iraq's Defense Minister that those who sheltered insurgents in their homes would be considered targets.
The group said it is giving 'the apostate government and its (US) master 24 hours to end their campaign against the Sunni people. After that they will only see from us the worst and something that's going to make the earth tremble under their feet.' The authenticity of the statement could not be independently verified.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 15:11 Comments ||
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#4
Al Qaeda's military wing...
Military wing? Looks like Reuters is elevating Al Qaeda's status from terrorist, to militant, to political group with a military wing.
Posted by: regular joe ||
11/07/2005 15:30 Comments ||
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U.S Marines in Iraq today confirmed 17 terrorists killed since Operation Steel Curtain began Nov. 5. Coalition officials suspect, but haven't been able to confirm, many more killed. Officials also reported coalition air strikes hit 10 targets today.
Also, terrorists reportedly fired on Iraqi soldiers and U.S. Marines from mosques in two separate incidents today. In both cases, Iraqi Army members entered quickly and searched the mosques, but the terrorists had already cleared the buildings. Terrorists frequently use religious and public buildings to launch their attacks.
The operation's fighting continued into the second day in the Husaybah near the Iraq-Syria border. The town is a location for foreign fighters, equipment and money to transit into Iraq. Iraqi soldiers and U.S. Marines have encountered and eliminated pockets of resistance throughout the day.
The combined force of about 1,000 Iraqi soldiers and 2,500 U.S. Marines, sailors and soldiers is clearing the city house by house as al Qaeda in Iraq-led terrorists continue to plant homemade bombs throughout the city and fire on Marines and Iraqi soldiers from homes, schools and mosques.
Marines and Iraqi soldiers have systematically searched every building. When locked buildings are encountered, forces typically cut the lock to gain entry for their search. Instructions to submit damages claims resulting from searches are left at the building for owners. Five teams of Marines have been tasked to help process claims for property damage.
After clearing Husaybah, Iraqi Army units will partner with Marines from Regimental Combat Team 2 to provide a joint presence in the city. Previous operations between Iraqi Army units integrated with Marines and soldiers assigned to the 2nd Marine Division have established a persistent joint presence recently in the cities of Hit, Hadithah, Barwana, Haqlaniyah, Sadah, Rawah, Amiriyah and Ferris.
Iraqi and coalition forces are providing 450 Husaybah residents displaced by the operation with billeting, food and security in temporary lodging. There have been no reports of civilian casualties or of civilians leaving the region due to the operation.
Posted by: Bobby ||
11/07/2005 05:45 ||
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"Terrorists frequently use religious and public buildings to launch their attacks."
If they launch attacks from Religious buildings, then they become a non-religious building. A target rather.
#2
Also, terrorists reportedly fired on Iraqi soldiers and U.S. Marines from mosques in two separate incidents today. In both cases, Iraqi Army members entered quickly and searched the mosques, but the terrorists had already cleared the buildings.
Scores of terrified Iraqis fled a besieged town Sunday, waving white flags and hauling their belongings to escape a second day of fighting between U.S. Marines and al-Qaida-led militants along the Syrian border. U.S. and Iraqi troops battled insurgents house-to-house, the U.S. military said. The U.S. commander of the joint force, Col. Stephen W. Davis, told The Associated Press late Sunday that his troops had moved "about halfway" through Husaybah, a market town along the Euphrates River about 200 miles northwest of Baghdad. At least 36 insurgents have been killed since the assault began Saturday and about 200 men have been detained, Davis said. He did not give a breakdown of nationalities of the detainees. Many were expected to be from a pro-insurgent Iraqi tribe. Davis would not comment on U.S. and Iraqi government casualties but said the militants were putting up a tough fight because "this area is near and dear to the the insurgents, particularly the foreign fighters."
Could be they're starting to run out of Fallujahs. And every time they move on to the next Fallujah the locals are going to be that much less happy to see them. But given the evident reasoning deficiencies of the average tribal Iraqi, this could take a while...
"This has been the first stop for foreign fighters, and this is strategic ground for them," he said by telephone.
Next week someplace else will be the first stop and the MNF will let it fester for awhile until there are enough bad guyz gathered in one place to make throwing them out worthwhile. That's entirely too subtle for the press to comprehend, of course...
Earlier Sunday, Brig. Gen. Donald Alston, a U.S. military spokesman, told reporters in Baghdad that none of the 3,500 U.S. and Iraqi troops had been killed so far.
That's good to hear, though I don't imagine it'll last more than another day or two...
The U.S. Marines said American jets struck at least 10 targets around the town Sunday and that the U.S.-Iraqi force was "clearing the city, house by house," taking fire from insurgents holed up in homes, mosques and schools. Residents of the area said by satellite phone that sounds of explosions diminished somewhat Sunday, although bursts of automatic weapons fire could be heard throughout the day. The residents said coalition forces warned people by loudspeakers to leave on foot because troops would fire on vehicles.
So much for the bad guyz' idea of booming their way out...
"I left everything behind â my car, my house," said Ahmed Mukhlef, 35, a teacher who fled Husaybah early Sunday with his wife and two children while carrying a white bed sheet tied to a stick. "I don't care if my house is bombed or looted, as long as I have my kids and wife safe with me."
Good idea. You can build another house, and the U.S. has been handing out money to help. We won't help you get another wife and kids...
The Marines said in a statement that about 450 people had taken refuge in a vacant housing area in Husaybah under the control of Iraqi forces. Others were believed to have fled to relatives in nearby towns and villages in the predominantly Sunni Arab area of Anbar province.
I'd guess they were combing through the 18-35 year-old male refugees pretty thoroughly...
U.S. officials have described Husaybah, which used to have a population of about 30,000, as a stronghold of al-Qaida in Iraq, led by Jordanian extremist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
You can bet Zark is someplace else...
Husaybah had long been identified as an entry point for foreign fighters, weapons and ammunition entering from Syria. From Husaybah the fighters head down the Euphrates valley to Baghdad and other cities. Several people identified as key al-Qaida in Iraq officials have been killed in recent airstrikes in the area, the U.S. military has said. Most were described as "facilitators" who helped smuggle would-be suicide bombers from Syria.
Now they're "deceased." Their survivors will soon be describing them as simple religious instructors, in the wrong place at the wrong time, led astray, perhaps, but really nice fellows at heart...
Damascus has denied helping militants sneak into Iraq, and witnesses said Syrian border guards had stepped up surveillance on their side of the border since the assault on Husaybah began.
Catch anybody?
The Americans hope the Husaybah operation, codenamed "Operation Steel Curtain," will help restore enough security in the area so the Sunni Arab population can participate in Dec. 15 national parliamentary elections. "The insurgents are throwing everything they have at the Iraqi people and coalition forces in an effort to derail Iraq's democratic reforms," Alston said. He said the offensive is aimed at interrupting the supply lines that al-Qaida in Iraq uses to launch some of the deadliest suicide attacks hitting Baghdad and other Iraqi cities.
And now the spin...
However, a protracted battle in Husaybah with civilian casualties risks a backlash in the Sunni Arab community, which provides most of the insurgents.
Yep. Better to have left them alone than to risk the backlash of the feared Sunni Arab community, which coincidentally provides most of the insurgents. Why they might... uhhh... ummm... provide more insurgents.
In Baghdad, Mohsen Abdul-Hamid, head of the largest Sunni Arab political party, sharply criticized "all military operations directed against civilian targets" because they "lead to the killing of innocent people and the destruction of towns and cities."
Any military operation, of course, is by definition directed against civilian targets in Iraq, especially in the Sunni Arab community, which provides most of the insurgents.
Saleh al-Mutlaq, head of another Sunni faction and a member of the committee that drafted the new constitution, accused the Americans and their Iraqi allies of mounting "a destructive and killing operation of secure cities and villages" on the "pretext that they hide and secure terrorists."
So he's basically denying that Husaybah shelters a nest of vipers, right? At least we know which side he's on...
The U.S.-led assault includes about 1,000 Iraqi soldiers and will serve as a major test of the fledgling army's capability to battle insurgents — seen as essential to enabling Washington to draw down its 157,000-strong military presence.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/07/2005 00:00 ||
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Have we ever tried accusing the Sunni's of being the source of all the terrorism, or is that too obvious and politically incorrect?
#2
"Could be they're starting to run out of Fallujahs. And every time they move on to the next Fallujah the locals are going to be that much less happy to see them. But given the evident reasoning deficiencies of the average tribal Iraqi, this could take a while..."
A little late-night exposition... 2.5 years on, still missing one of the keys to the game, IMHO.
One of the things that I and others, notably Verlaine who has the best grasp of it, IMHO, have posted on numerous times is that it seems we're still not going directly at the tribal leaders whose actions are, shall we say, unfriendly. And I mean directly at them, in particular. Until they are enlisted to resist the asshats (providing us intel, at least, if compelled to cooperate by the asshats) or made to feel the pain for active collaboration, the game goes on.
We do hear about tea time, now and then, but not about knocking heads. When tea won't cut it, then you have to roll out the other measures.
Once upon a time I would've said this applies mainly to the Sunnis, but the botch in Southern Iraq and the obvious reversion to the customary Arab style of rule, i.e. corrupt tribal control with them allying with groups such as the militias, proves the Shi'a have reverted to form, as well. In fact, the Basra situation is what we can expect overall throughout the Arab regions if we do not use force to demonstrate, daily at every point, that we will not accept nor allow the customary corrupt Arab despotism and nepotism to dominate the new Iraq. It can't and won't be eliminated, but it can be forced to be expressed primarily through the democratic process.
Everyone in any given area knows who runs the show - and it's not the Zarqi Boyz or al Douri - it's the tribal leaders - and it's my humble opinion that Mafia dons are the closest parallel in our common experience. You come into an area with a force with the intent to stay, you have to suborn the tribal leader(s) there. The regular Iraqis generally do what their family, clan, tribe, imam, sect tell them to do, more or less in that order.
The level, the granularity, at which you find the resistance to authority as we try to foster a democratic state, depends upon who you are. As Americans, we fall completely outside their customary "chain of command" and it's easy for the Iraqis to dismiss our almost incomprehensible (to many of them) motives and oppose us as occupiers.
When it's an Iraqi trooper, then he will meet opposition at the Islamic Sect (Sunni or Shi'a) or tribal level. This is unavoidable until the Iraqis work past the allegiance chain. The only overrides are brute force -- OR...
The biggest dog, the linchpin regards stability as well as (or because of) the power to hand out job$ and deal$ and goodie$, in that chain is the tribal Sheikh. Co-opt this bastard, put the tribal Sheikh in your corner, whatever that takes. Of course putting his people in security / authority positions is stupid - they will simply revert to the Mafia games they've always played, corrupting the process, playing competing interests off against each other, etc. You have to own him, and that means make him deal with people, weilding the authority of force, who do not owe him any allegiance. It will require some tough love. Probably very tough love.
I believe the key is to break the chain and focus Iraqis on the state. Yes, they will still be Arabs and will expect, Dhimmidonk-style, (Rhetorical: Is there any significant difference between the political machines in Big Blue Cities and Arab tribalism? Nope.), instant gratification and below the table BS. Such is human nature in people not taught differently, indoctrinated, lol, with more honest values. But I think we have long needed to break some heads to achieve even that in confrontations with Arabs - and I hear nothing of the sort in news reports, just brute (Will Jihadi come out and play?) force and, now, garrisoning cleared areas, to achieve the end goal. Not enough targeted force. Too much slack for the Sheikhs. I can hear them laughing up their sleeves and planning what they think they'll do when the force leaves or how they'll corrupt the garrison heads.
The first pass outcome in Iraq will be an "illiberal democracy", of course, because of the allegiances mentioned above. It can grow into a liberal democracy when the state is finally viewed as the main source of stability and prosperity and rights, not the Sheikh. We should be working to that specific end.
#3
If an area has a Tribal leadership that tolerates and deals with the "insurgents" how about we just wax them and move on. If you play the tribal bullshit game you lose. Break their strangle hold, off them all if you have to. My kind of tough love. Your nation is your tribe. Anything else is is horse crap you must pay with pain and tears for.
Of course I agree completely with you there, SPO'D. If we don't get stupid and bail out, they'll begin to "get it" and also agree with you - in about 30 years - at least one full generation, I think.
Right now was my focus, with your observation as the eventual goal.
advance media file half way to get to the interview quicker.
suspect conversations like this take place often.
Posted by: Red Dog ||
11/07/2005 5:21 Comments ||
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#6
PD my problem which goes with my ADHD is a lack of patience. It's a libality in teh field I have most recently been employeed in. I have to moderate my urge to take action too quickly and be more strategic and long term in my thinking. I can't afford to make a mistake and do that with my reactions though. I could end up letting someone else or myself get hurt.
Israel Defense Forces soldiers arrested three wanted Palestinians in the West Bank before dawn on Monday, Israel Radio reported. Soldiers arrested two members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. One arrest raid was made in the village of Beit Furik, south of Nablus, and the second was carried out in the village of Dura, located southeast of Hebron in the southern West Bank. An Islamic Jihad operative was also arrested southwest of Nablus.
In a separate incident, Palestinians opened fire on IDF troops operating in Jenin overnight, the radio reported. There were no casualties and no damage was caused by the light arms fire.
Two Palestinians were wounded Sunday when a Qassam rocket aimed at Israel mistakenly hit a house in the Gaza Strip town of Dir al-Balah.
One of the wounded was a Palestinian police officer who lived in the house.
Proving once again, Allen has a sense of humor
Military sources said that over the past two weeks, since the targeted killing of Luay Saadi, head of the Islamic Jihad's military wing in the area, some 40 Qassam rockets have been fired from the Gaza Strip toward Israel. However only seven or eight landed within the Green Line, a much smaller number than before disengagement and withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.
Sources in the IDF ascribe the low rate of Qassam attacks over the past two weeks to the army's creation of "buffer zones" by artillery action which, though aimed at open fields, has distanced launchings from the border with Israel and resulted in inaccurate aims.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 11:17 ||
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The head of the research division of Israel Defense Forces intelligence, Brigadier General Yossi Kuperwasser, said Monday that Hamas is making intensive efforts to transfer terror technology and weapons from the Gaza Strip to the West Bank. Kuperwasser told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee about the recent attempt by three Qassam rocket experts to make their way from Gaza to the West Bank. The three members of the Popular Resistance Committees, a Hamas "subcontractor," infiltrated Israel Gaza via Egypt with the goal of reaching Jenin and setting up a Qassam rocket workshop there. Security forces, however, captured the three near Mitzpe Ramon.
The IDF believe that Hamas' relative restraint over the past week, even after Israel killed its operative Fawzi al-Qara, is related to Syria's desire to avoid escalation right now. Therefore, instead of a direct clash with Israel, the organization is trying to operate indirectly, such as sending operatives from Gaza to the West Bank to heat up the atmosphere there.
Jordanian source confirms Hamas try to move from Syria
Official Jordanian sources on Sunday confirmed a Haaretz report that senior Hamas officials sought to transfer its operations from Damascus to Amman. Jordan rebuffed the Hamas attempt and said it was not prepared to host a non-Jordanian movement in its territory. Jordan conditioned the return of Hamas officials to Amman on them forfeiting membership in the organization. Hamas, which also reportedly sought to move operations to Egypt, examined whether either country would be willing to allow the organization's headquarters to relocate to its territory.
The queries were made due to Hamas' assessment that Syria, where both Hamas and Islamic Jihad headquarters are located, may force both organizations to leave in an effort to divert growing international pressure sparked by a United Nations investigation into the murder of former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri. Egypt also apparently refused.
Hamas' political leadership has been headquartered in Damascus for years; the offices also house operations officers who deliver instructions and money to Hamas operatives in the territories. The same is true of Islamic Jihad's Damascus offices. Officially, however, Syria describes both headquarters as "public relations offices." Under heavy American pressure stemming from Hamas and Jihad terror attacks in Israel, Syria claimed two years ago that it had shut down both offices. In reality, however, both organizations still operate out of Damascus.
Hamas' inquiries to Egypt and Jordan are additional proof of the pressure that Syria has been under since UN investigators concluded that senior officials apparently were involved in Hariri's murder. This pressure is being spearheaded by the United States and France; the former is also angry over Syria's role in allowing terrorists to enter Iraq from its territory. Damascus evidently hopes that expelling Hamas and Islamic Jihad would appease the UN, United States and France.
In the past, Hamas preferred to operate out of Jordan, but in 1999, King Abdullah expelled several senior organization officials from the country who were relocated to Syria and Qatar. Egypt maintains close ties with Hamas, partly to maintain its role as chief mediator between the Palestinian Authority and Islamic organizations. However, it apparently draws the line at hosting the headquarters of an organization that Israel, the United States and the European Union all label a terrorist group.
Meanwhile, Syria's crisis is already affecting the relationship between the Islamic organizations' headquarters and their operatives in the territories. Israeli security sources said that in recent months, the Damascus offices have made major efforts to lower the profile of their relationship with operatives in the West Bank and Gaza.
In February, when Islamic Jihad carried out a suicide bombing in Tel Aviv that killed five people, Israel was able to give Western governments intelligence information showing that the West Bank cell that sent the bomber had been in contact with Jihad headquarters in Damascus about the bombing. Recently, however, the modus operandi has changed, and the sources said it now more closely resembles that of Al-Qaida and other "global Jihad" organizations: The headquarters in Damascus set guidelines, such as a general time frame for an attack or the general area where it should take place, but the local operatives decide on the details.
This system distances the Syrian government, which hosts the headquarters, from accusations of direct involvement in terrorism. It also makes it harder for Israeli intelligence to obtain advance warning of an attack. Moreover, at a time when the PA and Islamic organizations are both officially committed to a period of security calm, it serves both sides if the organizations refrain from officially claiming responsibility for attacks.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 10:49 ||
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London, Asharq Al-Awsat- Lebanese authorities deported four leaders of the outlawed Al-Ghuraba'' fundamentalist movement who had traveled to Beirut to meet Omar Bakri, the former leader of "Al-Muhajiroun" and "Al-Ghuraba'' groups. Lawyer Anjem Chawdry (Abu-Luqman), "Al-Muhajiroun''s" former secretary general that dissolved itself in October 2004, said his stay was legitimate as was the visit by three other fundamentalists who went to Lebanon on a tourist trip and to meet Bakri and enquire about his condition. The three are Abu Izzaldin, Abu Ibrahim, and Abu Yahya. The four fundamentalists are considered important leaders in "Al-Ghuraba" organization that Britain banned after the July bombings in London.
Choudary expressed his belief that his deportation, after 10 weeks during which he moved between Beirut, Tripoli, Sidon, Bayt al-Din, and Al-Naqurah, was the result of coordination between the British Embassy in Beirut and the Lebanese public security services. He said, "A major in the Public Security Forces summoned me and asked to see our passports, which they later replaced with papers from the Public Security Directorate for moving about until the relevant authorities were consulted, as he said in his report. But the Lebanese officials contacted Omar Bakri the next day and told him we had to leave the Lebanese capital without giving the reasons and said they would give us back our passports at Beirut Airport on the morning of 3 November." After pointing out that he entered Beirut on 26 August, he said, "The main problem is that the Public Security Directorate did not give the real reasons for our deportation."
On his part, Syrian fundamentalist Omar Bakri Fustuq said when "Asharq al-Awsat" telephoned him that he had decided to drop his plan for an Arabic language college and freeze the internet coffee shop project after having made considerable steps in establishing them, adding that he took the decision on the security advice not to go ahead with them for fear that the British authorities would think that the coffee shop would be used as a cover for contacting his followers abroad. He said: "I decided not to go ahead with the modest college plan after bearing the costs of setting it up, like paying the rent for six months in advance, the furniture, and the teaching equipment because of the many security services that summoned me from time to time and after every press report or activity by some brothers in Britain or a visit by one of the British Muslims."
Bakri went on to say that, he also decided, "to freeze the plan to buy and furnish an apartment in Lebanon. I will not bring my family to Lebanon until the security clouds over me clear away." He pointed out that the Security Directorate officers knew of his intention to open a college to teach the Arabic language to non-Arabic speakers after informing them of this at one of the summons, "but they did not express any reservations about opening it." He noted that he incurred some expenses in this plan.
He also disclosed that a number of British Muslims in London have started a campaign to collect contribution under the name of "Sheikh Omar Bakri''s supporters" to cover his living costs in Lebanon. His students asked him to devote himself to writing and propagating and not to working in any job while they would send him a monthly aid in return.
Bakri, who at one time called the 11 September attackers the "magnificent 19", and the London Bombers the "Fantastic Four" called in a previous interview with "Asharq al-Awsat" on the Islamists living in Britain to leave it because they would be unable to preach the word of God. He said some of his students who were new converts to Islam and are mixture from England, Ireland, the Indian subcontinent, and European countries, would come to Beirut to study the Arabic language at the "Al-Tawhid in Bilad al-Sham" college that he intended to establish.
47-year-old Bakri is the father of seven children and lived in Edmonton suburb north of London for 20 years and was granted political asylum in 1986. He was banned from returning to Britain by British authorities last summer as a part of its crack down on extremist preachers.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 11:27 ||
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#1
He also disclosed that a number of British Muslims in London have started a campaign to collect contribution under the name of "Sheikh Omar Bakri''s supporters" to cover his living costs in Lebanon. His students asked him to devote himself to writing and propagating and not to working in any job while they would send him a monthly aid in return.
Looks like now that Omay's not getting his British welfare check, his supporters will all have to chip in a piece of their British welfare checks to keep him sitting on his fat, lazy holy man's ass in Beirut. Nice scam...and at least the weather's better in Lebanon. Right, Omay?
Peshawar, 7 Nov. (AKI/DAWN) - Four suspected foreign militants and four members of their family were killed when an explosive device they were making went off on Saturday in a tribal area of the North Waziristan Agency, on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, officials told the Pakistani daily Dawn. A local resident was also injured in the blast. The incident took place at Mosaka village, about 200 kilometres from Miramshah, at around 1:30am, said an official. He said the four militants, apparently Arabs, were making a bomb which exploded, blowing up the room of their mud house and killing everyone inside - four men, a woman, and three girls.
An official with Pakistan's army Inter-Service Public Relations (ISPR) in Peshawar said that a woman named Misbah had rented out the house to the Arab family. Misbah lived next door and was injured in the explosion, he said, adding that the owner escaped soon after the incident.
"Curly toed slippers, don't fail me now!"
The ISPR official said that the foreign militants had been living among locals, making it difficult for security forces to detect their presence.
A political official said they had asked tribal elders to hand over Misbah to the authorities. They had been warned that if they failed to hand over the woman, they would be punished under the collective responsibility clause of the Frontier Crime Regulation, he added.
Most of tribesmen in the area live in fortified mud houses and adhere to Islamic traditions.
Killing folk, blowing stuff up, beating their wives, etc..
North and South Waziristan have been at the centre of prolonged confrontations between the army and militant groups which include suspected al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters. Hundreds of militants and more than 250 Pakistani soldiers have died in the tribal areas. Thousands of troops have been deployed to tackle militants in the Afghan border region.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 10:44 ||
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Kolkata, 7 Nov. (AKI) - India's Border Security Force (BSF) has said that they have arrested a Pakistani national who is suspected of being involved in the October 29 bomb blasts in the Indian capital, New Delhi, which killed 62 people. The Press Trust of India (PTI) reports that the man, Ali Mohammad, alias Abu Ali Haider, was arrested at Balurghat in north Bengal, and is believed to have entered the country from Bangladesh.
Reports suggested that the militant is linked to the Pakistan-based Islamic militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), which the US and India have labelled a terrorist organisation. The group is also banned in Pakistan. The BSF sources said that they would be interrogating the suspect in order to determine his connection to the group and the Delhi blasts. The suspect is believed to have stayed in Delhi earlier this year and was on his way to Kashmir.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/07/2005 10:41 ||
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A few simple reminders and followup from lotp's post yesterday:
Provide a source for your post. If you don't your post will be deleted. None of the moderators have enough time to look for the source of your post.
Shorter, not longer, titles. Remember, the http:// source does NOT go into the title. Snarky and catchy titles are fine.
File it in the right place. If it's about the current intifada in Frankistan, don't file it under 'Great White North'.
We focus on the WoT and matters related to the WoT. That includes general thuggery around the world, such as Zim-bob-we, and the politics surrounding the WoT. The farther away it is from that, the less likely people here want to read it here on Rantburg. We assume y'all read other weblogs for the other news. Weird animal stories, of course, are always welcome: they go into the SAST as a 'non-WoT' item. But domestic issues in Australia, surface crawlers on Mars, and the general firmness of J Lo's butt shouldn't be posted here.
Opinion pieces go into the 'Opinion' category. Tricky, eh? This includes blog pieces. Some exceptions exist: VDH, Lileks, and Marc Steyn can go into any appropriate category. All the rest go into Opinion. And that's not an invitation for other blog-owners to post stuff in Opinion just to advertise their own blog.
Please format the post. That means, help us make the post readable. Think of it as a chance to teach English composition to the MSM. Delete the fluff and the stuff we already know. If there are no line breaks, put them in. If there are too many line breaks, take some out. Some sources (e.g., BBC) think that each and every sentence should be a new paragraph. Other sources (e.g., myway.ap.news) think that an entire story is a single paragraph, three pages long. Some gentle editing to make a post readable really helps all of us, especially the moderators who then don't have to go back and re-edit stuff.
Your comments are in highlight (yellow) text. Start your comments on a separate line. Don't put a leading line space before or after.
Strikout text can be placed in-line in the text. Some here complain when we use too much of it. Unless you've got a sure-fire 'mad-libs' winner, use strikeout text sparingly.
Check for duplicates before you post. I miss that one myself sometimes (thanks to Emily and Steve for the gentle 'gotchas').
And as always, thanks for all your support. You make Rantburg a special place.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/07/2005 00:31 ||
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#5
I like the idea of a style guide. Also useful would be instructions on how to highlight text, how to do graphics (e.g, insert a jpg), and how to do cross-outs.
Posted by: Curt Simon ||
11/07/2005 14:43 Comments ||
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#6
The Opinion Page is working out nicely. I suggest Page 5. The BOng/Impared Sekshun.
Sheikh Rasheed Ahmad, the federal minister for information has denied reports that Pakistani security forces have arrested a key Al-Qaeda leader. It was believed that the arrested Al-Qaeda member was an important figure in Osama Bin Ladenâs organizationâs European wing. Talking to the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) Sheikh Rashid said that no key figure of Al-Qaeda has been arrested. He said that media reports in this regard were based on rumours.
According to foreign news agencies, a senior Pakistan government official had said that authorities were trying to find out whether or not one of those arrested from Quetta two days earlier was Mustafa Satmaria Nasar. Mustafa Nasar has been accused of the Madrid blasts in 2004. The United States announced a $5 million reward on any information leading to the arrest of Mustafa Nasar alias Abu Musab Al Suri last year.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/07/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
the federal minister for information has denied reports that Pakistani security forces have arrested a key Al-Qaeda leader.
..sounds of frivolity were heard in the background.
pic: think thats a friendly or a covert agent?
Posted by: Red Dog ||
11/07/2005 4:10 Comments ||
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Indian troops shot dead two suspected militants in Kashmir, said the Indian Army on Saturday. "Two militants were shot dead along the Line of Control (LoC)," said army spokesman Vijay Batra. "The two were asked to stop, but they opened fire prompting troops to return fire," Batra said, adding that the suspected rebels were killed on Friday in Keran. "Their identity is being ascertained."
"Stop or we'll [BANG! BANG! BANGETY BANG!] shoot!"
Posted by: Fred ||
11/07/2005 00:00 ||
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Security agencies detained 32 activists of banned religious organisations during Eid celebrations ahead of the cricket Test match between Pakistan and England, Punjab government sources said. The sources said that the government has prepared a list of 190 activists belonging to Jaish-e-Muhammad, Sipah-e-Sahaba and other militant outfits, and arrested 32 of them from Multan, Bahawalpur, Sargodha and Faisalabad. Raids were being conducted to arrest more, they said. This was a security measure for the cricket series, scheduled to begin on November 12. Sources said that a special security team from the UK will also visit Qasim Bagh Stadium, Multan to review security arrangements. About 4,000 security officials will be deployed at the stadium for during the match.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/07/2005 00:00 ||
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KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - The fugitive leader of Afghanistanâs Taleban insurgents has called on people to unite and join his guerrillas in a âjihadâ or holy war against US forces in the country.
Again? He's been saying the same thing for the past four years.
Mullah Mohammad Omar, whose fundamentalist regime was toppled by a US-led invasion in late 2001, said the Taleban would increase attacks on US forces and that âthe victory is close.â
"How close?"
"Real close!"
â...Iâm calling on the Muslim nation of Afghanistan to do not get disappointed and join the jihad against the invader Americans,â he said in a statement faxed to news agencies in the southern city of Kandahar, a Taleban stronghold till late 2001. âThe victory is close,â said the statement faxed from his press office, which quoted Omar as saying that jihad meant using arms, money and writing.
If victory is so close, what's to be disappointed about?
âThe Muslim nation should allocate their lives, wealth and pens for the jihad,â it said.
"But not my life, I'm too important to the cause."
The statement contains greetings from Omar for the Muslim festival of Eid al-Fitr and was issued last Friday.
"Happy Holidays from the Turbans!"
Omar, who remains at large in Pakistan despite a multi-million dollar reward offered by the US, also called upon Iraqis to continue their jihad against US âinfidelâ forces. âEvery Iraqi should join the struggle against the Americans,â he said.
"Look how well it's worked for us!"
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/07/2005 00:00 ||
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#4
Several news sources report that anti-US Islamists leaders believe "victory" ags the USA, espec in IRAQ, is possible over the next 1-1 1/2 year(s): personally, I believe its more indicia of that new, potens nuclearized, 9-11(s) will be launched within the USA, and whose focii will be the PC elimination of Dubya, his Admin., and the bulk of the GOP-domin US Congress, includ but not limited to anti-Clinton Dems. As illustrated by CINDY-GATE, its notsomuch "assasination" in wartime as it is an PC INTRA-NATIONAL COMMUNIST "PURGE" of Clintonian Communist Amerika's alleged "Fascist" fraction - you know, waffling dialectic policratic Politicians and Activists telling the Amer people = voters the truth, aka Secular Moralism where one does NOT have to believe in God or Spirituality to tell any and all "truths"!?
#5
Tell you what, Omar. Why don't you show all of the folks at home just how dedicated you are to the cause of jihad by strapping on one of those bomb vests and detonating it yourself. Preferrably in the company of your family and friends.
#7
learn them Rivrdog, focii "truths"!? to the woids!
I believe its more indicias) will be launched within the USA, and whose focii of that new, potens nuclearized, 9-11( will be the PC elimination of Dubya
/grape rules
Posted by: Red Dog ||
11/07/2005 4:21 Comments ||
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#11
They could probably scoop up Blinky at a moments notice, but I think they keep him around for comic relief and enjoy the fact that he'll be freezing his ass off in some cave in the coming "brutal Afghan winter".
Gunmen threw grenades and a land mine exploded near a convoy carrying Somalia's prime minister on Sunday, but the leader escaped unharmed, officials said. At least five bodyguards were killed and 14 other people wounded in the attack. The attack occurred shortly after Somali Prime Minister Ali Mohamed Gedi arrived for a visit to the Somali capital â a stronghold of powerful warlords-turned-Cabinet ministers and Islamic extremists opposed to his divided transitional government, according to the Horn Africa radio station.
"Honey, I'm going to Mogadishu for a cabinet meeting. Don't wait dinner for me!"
"Okay, dear! Wouldja drop this life insurance payment off on your way?"
The explosions narrowly missed the vehicle carrying Gedi and Deputy Prime Minister Hussein Aidid. The victims were bodyguards in the car behind the leaders, said Mohamed Ali Americo, a senior official in the Somali prime minister's office. One bodyguard died at the scene. Two others inside Gedi's vehicle were also wounded in the attack, said businessman Mahamud Ahmed Ali.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/07/2005 00:00 ||
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The victims were bodyguards in the car behind the leaders, said Mohamed Ali Americo, a senior official in the Somali prime minister's office.
Hey boss, cut us some slack. They switched the vehicle march order at the last minute, how the f*** were we to know!
#7
The negotiated government purports to govern all of Somalia, including Puntland and Somaliland, neither of which apparently consent to be governed from Mogadishu.
Somaliland and Puntland seem to have less propensity for lunacy, probably no more than, say, Djibouti or Eritrea.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/07/2005 20:16 Comments ||
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#8
Puntland: are the citizens called Punters?
Posted by: Red Dog ||
11/07/2005 21:06 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
At least four persons â three terrorists and one member of an outlawed party â were killed in separate incidents of crossfire during the last four days in Narayanganj, Sylhet and Khulna. 
Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, was forced into a climbdown today over proposals to hold terrorist suspects for a maximum of 90 days without charge. Faced with cross-party opposition and a growing backbench rebellion within Labour, Mr Clarke said that he would table a proposal to amend the deadline in the Terrorism Bill.
POLICE have shot and wounded a terrorist suspect who allegedly opened fire on them this morning after he disobeyed an order to stop on a Sydney street. Unconfirmed reports say the man had been under surveillance by counter-terrorist police and was carrying a backpack when ordered to stop by police. The suspect tried to flee, reportedly firing gunshots at police before officers returned fire, hitting him in the abdomen.
ONE of the nine men arrested in anti-terrorism raids across Melbourne overnight was the outspoken Melbourne Muslim cleric 
A LEADING Muslim cleric, who ASIO says is a national security risk, faces deportation after a court dismissed his bid to stay in Australia. Iranian-born 
An Australian soldier serving in the elite special services has died during training in the Middle East, Defence said today. His name was not released. In a statement, Defence said the soldier was struck by a vehicle. Defence did not say where in the Middle East the incident took place. Efforts by all his companions to provide first aid at the scene failed. 
Rioting by French youths spread to 300 towns overnight and a man hurt in the violence died of his wounds, the first fatality in 11 days of unrest that has shocked the country, police said Monday. As urban unrest spread to neighboring Belgium and possibly Germany, the French government faced growing criticism for its inability to stop the violence, despite massive police deployment and continued calls for calm. 
MADRID: Spanish judicial authorities want to question a wanted Syrian militant, thought captured in a shootout with Pakistani security forces, over the September 11 attacks in the United States, judicial sources said on Thursday. Pakistani ministers said an Arab Al Qaeda suspect was killed and another was seized in a shootout in Quetta, while playing down reports that Syrian-born 
President Jacques Chirac promised Sunday to restore public order across France as unrest spread from suburban Paris to cities south and north, with rioters battling police, throwing Molotov cocktails and ramming a car into a housing project during an 11th night of mayhem.
In Evreux, 60 miles west of Paris, five police officers and three firefighters were injured in clashes with youths who destroyed at least 50 vehicles, shops and businesses, a post office and two schools, authorities said. "Rioters attacked us with baseball bats," said Philippe Jofres, a deputy fire chief, told France-2 television. "We were attacked with pick axes. It was war."
The discovery Saturday night, he said, shows that gasoline bombs "are not being improvised by kids in their bathrooms."
Scores of terrified Iraqis fled a besieged town Sunday, waving white flags and hauling their belongings to escape a second day of fighting between U.S. Marines and al-Qaida-led militants along the Syrian border. U.S. and Iraqi troops battled insurgents house-to-house, the U.S. military said. The U.S. commander of the joint force, Col. Stephen W. Davis, told The Associated Press late Sunday that his troops had moved "about halfway" through 
Peshawar, 7 Nov. (AKI/DAWN) - Four suspected foreign militants and four members of their family were killed when an explosive device they were making went off on Saturday in a tribal area of the North Waziristan Agency, on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, officials told the Pakistani daily Dawn. A local resident was also injured in the blast. The incident took place at Mosaka village, about 200 kilometres from Miramshah, at around 1:30am, said an official. He said the four militants, apparently Arabs, were making a bomb which exploded, blowing up the room of their mud house and killing everyone inside - four men, a woman, and three girls.
Kolkata, 7 Nov. (AKI) - India's Border Security Force (BSF) has said that they have arrested a Pakistani national who is suspected of being involved in the October 29 bomb blasts in the Indian capital, New Delhi, which killed 62 people. The Press Trust of India (PTI) reports that the man, 
Indian troops shot dead two suspected militants in Kashmir, said the Indian Army on Saturday. "Two militants were shot dead along the Line of Control (LoC)," said army spokesman Vijay Batra. "The two were asked to stop, but they opened fire prompting troops to return fire," Batra said, adding that the suspected rebels were killed on Friday in Keran. "Their identity is being ascertained."
Security agencies detained 32 activists of banned religious organisations during Eid celebrations ahead of the cricket Test match between Pakistan and England, Punjab government sources said. The sources said that the government has prepared a list of 190 activists belonging to Jaish-e-Muhammad, Sipah-e-Sahaba and other militant outfits, and arrested 32 of them from Multan, Bahawalpur, Sargodha and Faisalabad. Raids were being conducted to arrest more, they said. This was a security measure for the cricket series, scheduled to begin on November 12. Sources said that a special security team from the UK will also visit Qasim Bagh Stadium, Multan to review security arrangements. About 4,000 security officials will be deployed at the stadium for during the match.
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - The fugitive leader of Afghanistanâs Taleban insurgents has called on people to unite and join his guerrillas in a âjihadâ or holy war against US forces in the country.
Gunmen threw grenades and a land mine exploded near a convoy carrying Somalia's prime minister on Sunday, but the leader escaped unharmed, officials said. At least five bodyguards were killed and 14 other people wounded in the attack. The attack occurred shortly after Somali Prime Minister 
