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Izzat Ibrahim negotiating surrender
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-Short Attention Span Theater-
Influx of Polish troops prompts Iraqis to view US in a kinder light
Colin Freeman in Hillah, IRAQ

AS BEFITS a man who lives near the ruins of ancient Babylon, Ahmed Shubah, chief prosecutor for Iraq’s Babel province, reckons he knows a great civilisation when he sees one.

As a result, the United States army’s decision to pass military control of the area to a new, multinational force led by the Polish has not left him happy.

"The Americans and British bring great civilisations wherever they go, but the Polish? They haven’t even got one of their own yet," he moaned undiplomatically last week, as a group of American officers treated him to a farewell lunch.

It is nearly two months since a 21-nation army of nearly 9,000 soldiers, under overall command of a Polish general and 2,000 of his infantry, arrived to help the US police a vast sector south of Baghdad in Babel province.

Today, the area is as cosmopolitan as when its fabled Tower of Babel still stood, with Ukrainian, Nicaraguan, Filipino and even Mongolian voices trying to spread the peacekeeping message.

Yet, while the force was set up to ease the flak on overstretched US troops, so far it has done so in rather an unexpected way - by allowing Iraqis to compare the American style with that of other nations. Uncle Sam is finding, for the first time, that he is no longer the least popular kid on the block.

This is partly because the Americans have had several months to make friends and influence people. But at street level too, the new arrivals are making people feel the Americans weren’t so bad after all.

"The Americans used to make jokes with us and laugh together, and we had some kind of close relationship," said Hamid Ahmed, who runs a fruit-juice stall in the centre of Hillah, Babel province’s main city. "The Poles don’t socialise - they just go around on patrol. Perhaps it’s just because they are still frightened of us, although there’s hardly any trouble here any way."

Posted by: . || 09/23/2003 5:33:53 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6498 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "The Americans and British bring great civilisations wherever they go, but the Polish? They haven’t even got one of their own yet"

If the Germans, Austrians and Russians had ever left them alone for a while they might have rivaled the ... Germans, Austrians and Russians.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/23/2003 18:10 Comments || Top||

#2  Wait till the Turks get there... they'll long for the Poles and their money.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/23/2003 18:32 Comments || Top||

#3  This guy demands to be repressed by the varsity. I never would have anticipated that sentiment.

I'll buy the British as a comparitively grat civilization, but when the guy slimes the Poles as culturally inferior to the US. We need to get him a cable package so he can reevaluate that particular misconception. Make him watch a Polish ballet and then the MTV music video awards back to back. He'ld be seeing the light.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 18:49 Comments || Top||

#4  "The Poles don’t socialise - they just go around on patrol"

Perhaps that mortar attack on their base might have had something to do with it. It's true the Poles are green when it comes to outings like this. They've been a part of NATO for only a short while. That's probably why they are there, to get the experience. Frightened? I don't think so.
Hey, I'm glad they see something good in Americans. Now I hope they'll pass this sentiment on to their friends, neighbours, and their kids.
Posted by: Rafael || 09/23/2003 19:28 Comments || Top||

#5  The Poles might be able, in the long run, to relate better to the Iraqis on a personal level given time. After all, they were also repressed for several decades by a brutal, corrupt and backwards system of government that left their infrastructure in tatters. They might be able to apply the lessons learned rebuilding their own country and save the Iraqis the trouble of learning them firsthand.
Posted by: Dar || 09/23/2003 20:24 Comments || Top||

#6  Super Hose,

comparing ballet from one country and a music video from another?
apple vs orange...

whats wrong with comparing bellet from one country and bellet from another.

or a polish rock music video with an american one

you know.. apple to apple

or better yet, lets compare the world wide market values of various culture icons, a biggest dollar maker wins kinda thing..

culture-dead america is a fabrication...
Posted by: Dcreeper || 09/23/2003 23:07 Comments || Top||

#7  The Poles are on the steep edge of the learning curve. No one could expect them to be taking to this sort of situation like ducks to water. They'll learn the ropes soon enough, and to begin with it's probably better that they're seen to be erring on the cautious side rather than appearing to be more aggressive than necessary. Frightened Poles?! That dosen't sound very likely to me.
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/24/2003 7:45 Comments || Top||

Hungarians Get Horny While Singapore Sleeps
As long as we're being silly today...
Forget Latin lovers — horny Hungarians are now the most active between the sheets, leading a charge of eastern Europeans in the global sex charts. ondom maker Durex's annual global sex survey published on Tuesday showed that Hungarian lovers enjoy sex 152 times a year.
"Lazlo! The Commies are gone! Let's get nekkid!"
"They've been gone for ten years, Huszär!"
"What if they come back?"
"Here, help me with my underwear..."
The French -- fiercely proud of their sexual prowess — only manage 144 performances a year. The Italians and Spanish lag even further with scores of 119 and 123 times a year, while Americans make love an average of 118 times a year, Germans 120 and Australians 125. "Bedtime in Budapest is the most passionate of all," Durex said in its survey.
"Yip-yip-yip yeee-haw!"
"Ooooh! Lazlo!"
"Ooooh! Huszár!
Eastern Europe performed well, with Bulgaria, Russia, Serbia and Montenegro all showing above average annual ratings.
"Ooooh! Svetlana!"
"Ooooh! Igor!"
But if you want sex in Sweden or Singapore, you may be disappointed. Swedes chalk up a below-average score of 102 times a year, while Singaporeans only manage 96.
"Ja, sure! I t'ink I'm horny now, Helga!"
The survey of more than 150,000 people found lovers across the globe are having sex an average of 127 times a year and 73 percent of people say they are happy with their sex lives.
"Was it good for you, too, dear?"
The most sexually satisfied couples are in Thailand with 92 percent, Vietnam with 90 percent, China and Spain with 83 percent, and Iceland with 80 percent.
That's why whenever you see pictures of Thais they've got smiles on their faces...
Russians were the least happy with their lot. Only 59 percent said they were satisfied, despite having sex an average of 150 times a year.
"Igor! Dammit!"
"Sorry, Svetlana. Here, let me mop that up..."
One-night stands proved relatively popular across the world with 45 percent of people admitting to having had one. But Nordic nights were the most adventurous — 71 percent of Icelanders, 70 percent of Norwegians and 68 percent of Finns have had sex with someone they had just met, compared with only 37 percent of Germans and 24 percent of Indians.
"Have we met?"
"I don't think so."
"Let's have sex."
Keeping up with the times, Americans are at the forefront of the techno trend for virtual reality sex with 54 percent saying they have had sex via phone, e-mail or text message. The French scoffed at such modern nonsense — only 20 percent of them saying they could see the point of it.
Gotta agree with Jean-Pierre on that one...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 11:53 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6492 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Well, it is evident that Fearless Litre Leader Fred is back in full form after Hurricane Isabel....
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 13:28 Comments || Top||

#2  118? I will tell Mrs. Sarge that we have work to do! Let see 99 days left and 117 to make the grade...that's 1.2 a day until the end of the year! hmmm how do you do a .2? HELP!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/23/2003 15:58 Comments || Top||

#3  AP: Good point. There's not much to do when the power is off.
Posted by: Matt || 09/23/2003 17:40 Comments || Top||

#4  Cyber Sarge---Carry over at midnight. Allocate proportionately based upon Hobbs time in each day. Keep a running total. Tune as you go. Good luck.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 19:15 Comments || Top||

"Chief Wiggles" launches Toys for Iraqi Children drive
Hopefully the Chief will be deluged--he’s going out a limb to help foment goodwill between our nation and the children who will someday grow up to run a free Iraq.

Just imagine some little Iraqi boy (or girl!) who receives a donated toy from the hands of an American soldier, and who may grow up to become president of a free Iraq someday. That child may not comprehend what we’re doing to give him a solid infrastructure, medical care, education, or future just yet, but the memory of that soldier giving him what becomes his favorite toy will stick in his mind for the rest of his life and have a profound influence on how he views America throughout his formative years. That child is out there somewhere right now.

Of course, the raw, happy joy a child can get from a toy is a pretty damn important consideration, too! Help ensure the Chief can reach them all!
Posted by: Dar || 09/23/2003 11:22:43 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6467 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I absolutely agree! You can give for the humanitarian aspect of it. Or you can give for the sake of our troops and our future in America! Iraqi kids who play with toys, don't play with guns or grenades! And when they grow up, they don't support Al-Qaeda! No matter what your position on the war itself, this is the right thing to do!
Posted by: Greg || 09/23/2003 11:31 Comments || Top||

#2  Fred--on the formatting, that's all my text. I didn't include anything from Chief Wiggles's site but the link. I don't want anyone to attribute to him my weak attempt to wax poetic. :-)
Posted by: Dar || 09/23/2003 11:39 Comments || Top||

Youth drinks drugged tea, cuts off doinker and tongue
Hat tip: Drudge.
A student cut off his own penis and his tongue after drinking an infusion of the latest drugs craze to sweep Germany.
Wonder what he was a student of?
The 18-year-old, only named as Andreas W, from Halle in Germany drank a tea made with the hallucinogenic angels’ trumpet plants. His mother said: "Andreas was behaving normally the whole day until he left the house and disappeared into the garden for a couple of minutes." When he returned to the house he was wearing a towel wrapped around him and was bleeding heavily from his mouth and between his legs. The emergency doctor who arrived a few minutes later said the student had cut off his penis and his tongue with garden shears and it was impossible to reattach the organs.
Sounds like he wanted to stick around to see what happened after he departed the gene pool...
Dr Andreas Marneros, from the local psychiatric hospital the student was admitted to, said: "Andreas will have to receive psychological help for years. Tea from Angels’ Trumpets is extremely dangerous as the drug cannot be dosed." Angels’ Trumpets, known for their fragrant and trumpet shaped flowers, have increasingly become popular as an alternative drug in Germany.
This stuff must be incredibly potent--I mean, he couldn’t cut off both organs at once, so he must have been numbed out enough to do one then the other... Scary sh*t! What are the chances this guy will wind up committing suicide in the end?
Posted by: Dar || 09/23/2003 10:52:29 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6492 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Datura is bad news - I remember in college, when Carlos Castanedas' "Travels with Don Juan" book series came out, there was a run on datura, based on the drug use described in the books with the spiritual hallucinations outlined
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 10:56 Comments || Top||

#2  Well, at least he won't pass on his stupid gene.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 10:56 Comments || Top||

#3  The emergency doctor who arrived a few minutes later said the student had cut off his penis and his tongue with garden shears and it was impossible to reattach the organs.

Just call him Stumpy.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 11:21 Comments || Top||

#4  Darwin candidate? I think so!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/23/2003 11:57 Comments || Top||

#5  Has anyone else seen the DARE commercial where all the kids talk about the crazy stuff they have done on drugs? Then the last girl's crazy experience was having unprotected sex and contracting the AIDS virus. Then all the kids stop laughing and there is silence.

Well now they can tack this guy's story on the end. Someone will say, "hey, Gunter what funny stuff have you done on drugs?"
And he can say, " uhumma mya wickan. Michwa dunnah." Then we can all laugh again.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 13:02 Comments || Top||

#6  Mum's the word.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 13:29 Comments || Top||

#7  " Don't do drugs, or you may never pea again. "
Posted by: Charles || 09/23/2003 14:13 Comments || Top||

#8  You don't wanna be around when he comes down from this high. How do you say, "I did what?!" in tounge be gone?
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 14:29 Comments || Top||

#9  How do you say, "I did what?!" in tounge be gone?

"I ih HWUH!?"
Posted by: Katz || 09/23/2003 14:48 Comments || Top||

#10  OMG! This is straight out of Hannibal, if the kid had some whacko urge him to do it!
Posted by: Craig || 09/23/2003 15:48 Comments || Top||

#11  I recommend we start a fund and buy shit loads of this stuff then donate it to Islamo countries. Within one generation the world will be a better place.
Cut the wacker: no more reproduction
Cut the tongue: no more indoctrination in Mosques
Cut the hands: no more shooting infidels

Who's with me on this
Posted by: rg117 || 09/23/2003 16:08 Comments || Top||

#12  RG - I'm not sure the world is ready for that level of "biological warfare"... otherwise, go for it!
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 16:28 Comments || Top||

#13  What I want to know is... which cut did he try first? "Hmmm... that didn't hurt much, let's try another..." just doesn't seem to cover it.
Posted by: snellenr || 09/23/2003 17:04 Comments || Top||

#14  It will be intresting to see what the social reation to this will be. I don't understand how he could get much of his tongue off with garden shears, but will the EU restrict the sale of shears small enough for a drugged teenager to perform tounge trimming with? Maybe the solution will be to require unremovable helmets with facemasks for druggies. The pecker protector will have to include elements of a mideval chastity belt and some 50 mm diameter wire mesh hose (and I know hose let me tell you.)

This incident and all the discussion of Jock Sheetrock reminded me of this tragedy from several months ago.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 20:54 Comments || Top||

Strange Mutant Rats Overrun Kyrgyzstan
An unusual breed of rats is inflicting damage on Kyrgyzstan’s Dzhalal-Abad region. The rats "are killing numerous farm birds, are damaging grape and corn crops, and have destroyed 14 hectares of grain in one of the districts. These rats can climb trees and are destroying apples, pears and other fruit. The rat invasion may also give rise to different epidemics," parliament member Dooronbek Sadyrbayev told Interfax.
Plague, hanta virus, etc.
The rats frequently attack people and young children are especially vulnerable.
Man-eating mutant rats?
Sanitary services are unable to deal with the situation. "The enormous amount of rats cannot be estimated," he said. The rats are not susceptible to typical poisons.
That’s, er, unusual.
An Uzbek specialist bred the species by crossing an ordinary rat with a muskrat, he said.
Mad doctor playing god creates hoards of poison resistent, ravenous man-eating rats. Yup, we’ve seen this movie before. It’ll take a dedicated young scientist and a beautiful reporter to save us.
The parliament members asked the government to resolve the problem.
We’re doomed! Doomed!
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 10:03:55 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6493 views] Top|| File under:

#1  send em to NK. We'll just see who eats who
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 10:10 Comments || Top||

#2  Perhaps Exterminators Without Frontiers could look into the matter...
Posted by: Seafarious || 09/23/2003 10:12 Comments || Top||

#3  Y'know, I won't be surprised to see some of our articles in Weekly World News, rubbing elbows with Bat Boy sometime soon...
Posted by: Fred || 09/23/2003 10:57 Comments || Top||

#4  Willard, call 'em off! Please, Willard. No, Willard, no! Aieeeeeee . . . .
Posted by: Mike || 09/23/2003 11:06 Comments || Top||

#5  They aren't giant mutant rats!

They're merely rodents of unusual size...
Posted by: Crescend || 09/23/2003 11:17 Comments || Top||

#6  Seafarious

On further review such an organization might do a hell of a lot of good. I can just see the boxes... a gift of love from your friends at Orkin.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/23/2003 11:23 Comments || Top||

#7  Giant Chinese Gerbils vs. Mutant Kyrgyzstan Rats!
Liiiiiiiiiive... on Pay Per View!!!
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 11:31 Comments || Top||

#8  The rats "are killing numerous farm birds, are damaging grape and corn crops, and have destroyed 14 hectares of grain in one of the districts. These rats can climb trees and are destroying apples, pears and other fruit. The rat invasion may also give rise to different epidemics,"

Isn't this about the spot where Godzilla rises from his ocean slumber?
Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/23/2003 11:50 Comments || Top||

#9  So some Interfax hack stumbled on to the backset of the sequel to Night of the Lepus. And those things bred like, uh, lepi.
Posted by: (lowercase) matt || 09/23/2003 11:51 Comments || Top||

#10  Do not worry Godzirra will defeat the monsta!
Posted by: wills || 09/23/2003 11:54 Comments || Top||

#11  We must first try to understand why it is the the rats hate us, we ust look at the root causes of their anger.

Posted by: Frank Martin || 09/23/2003 12:05 Comments || Top||

#12  An Uzbek specialist bred the species by crossing an ordinary rat with a muskrat

Hmmm...a Mu-Rat.
Posted by: Seafarious || 09/23/2003 12:10 Comments || Top||

#13  It sounds like Murat's family is on vacation.


Strike that, I owe a heartfelt apology to plague-bearing vermin everywhere for that horrible libel.
Posted by: Ernest Brown || 09/23/2003 12:32 Comments || Top||

#14  Seafarious---I just about choked on my Yogi Tea after reading your ditty....ROTFLMAO! good show.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 13:31 Comments || Top||

#15  Winston Smith's worst nightmare.
Posted by: Katz || 09/23/2003 13:41 Comments || Top||

#16  I don't think that these rats are resistant to napalm. I'm sure some scientist will go back to the drawing board and work on that fault.

Has anywone prancing about the town in green colored pantyhose playing a reeded instrument?
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 14:09 Comments || Top||

#17  I don't care how mean the rats are, all you have to do is step on them.
Posted by: Charles || 09/23/2003 14:19 Comments || Top||

#18  "I don't care how mean the rats are, all you have to do is step on them."

Hope you get your leg back, Charles. They crossed a ordinary rat with a muskrat, remember? Muskrats weigh from 2 to 4 pounds. They measure 10-14 inches in length, excluding their 8-11 inch tails.
Of course, I've seen Norway rats as big or bigger. Me, I'm packing heat.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 15:02 Comments || Top||

#19  Meanwhile, in other news, reports of large "humanoid" amphibians in the sewers of New York City still persist.

City maintinance worker Joe Schlmoe stated to this reporter: "Yep! Ah sawed 'em, alrite! They wuz TURTLES! Really! Wif' arms an' legs an' shells an' everythin'! An' dey had swords, too!"
Posted by: Ed Becerra || 09/23/2003 15:48 Comments || Top||

#20  Must be imported from Sumatra, eh what?

The world is not yet prepared...
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 16:14 Comments || Top||

#21  Oh, "Mutant Rats?" My mistake, I thought this thread was titled "Strange Murat Rants"
Posted by: whitecollar redneck || 09/23/2003 16:21 Comments || Top||

#22  Me, I'm packing heat.

These rats wouldn't be a problem in Texas.
Posted by: Rafael || 09/23/2003 16:25 Comments || Top||

#23  Rafael, you're right about Texas. The damm fire ants down here would have those rats for lunch.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 16:46 Comments || Top||

#24  These rats wouldn't be a problem in Texas.

Shoot where I live this would be an opportunity to add a little protein to our clay.

Posted by: Shipman || 09/23/2003 18:42 Comments || Top||

#25  Seafarious..whitecollar

way to show your superior intellect

am impressed.
Posted by: Dcreeper || 09/23/2003 23:18 Comments || Top||

Saudi police silence activist
A Saudi reformer who gave Aljazeera an exclusive interview about suppression and growing instability in the kingdom was arrested minutes later.
That was probably why...
Abd al-Aziz al-Tayyar told Al jazeera by telephone that Saudi security forces had surrounded his home just after 1a.m. and were preparing to storm his house.
"It's da coppers! Dey're comin' t'get me!... Ma! Ma! Tell Ma they got me!"
But in his last few minutes of freedom, the activist told millions of viewers how “all tribesmen are now willing to fight this government 
 we will protect the rights of our people some day. This is not the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia any more. It is a jungle full of monsters 
 Saudi people are suppressed. They suffer poverty and unemployment.”
"If they spent more time on religion they wouldn't have those problems!"
Arrests followed as a number of activisits were arrested at al-Tayyar’s house in al-Rawda quarter of Riyadh, including Muhammad al-Mayuf, Khalid al-Turki and Muhammad al-Subai. Al-Tayyar will be held at the Alaysha prison for questioning before being transferred to the notorious al-Hair political prison in Riyadh, according to Saudi dissident Dr Saad al-Faqih. Al-Faqih believes the activist is unlikely to be tortured as he comes from a powerful and well-connected family, "but he may be made to sign a confession admitting wrong-doing".
Oh, go ahead an torture him before you burn his jailhouse down...
Saudi authorities were not prepared to say why he was arrested.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 17:39 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6465 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hope Abd al-Aziz al-Tayyar (Mr. T, for short) brought his NOMEX robes and underwear for the jug.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 18:00 Comments || Top||

#2  It's the crushing of dissent!
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 18:37 Comments || Top||

Saudi Arabia contributes additional $5 million to Al-Aqsa Fund
The Saudi government has contributed five million dollars to the Al-Aqsa Fund account in support the Palestinian people. President of the Islamic Development Bank (IDB) Ahmad Mohamed Ali said that this amount comes in response to the Beirut summit appeal to Arab countries for an additional to $150 million to support the development sectors in Palestine. Saudi Arabia announced earlier the additional contribution of $21 million to support the Al-Aqsa Fund and had paid $16 million. The recent five million dollar payment is the last installment towards this contribution. With this the grant, the Kingdom's total contribution to the two funds amounts to $271 million. The purpose of IDB is to foster the economic development and social progress of member countries and Muslim communities, individually as well as jointly, in accordance with the principles of the Shariah, the Islamic law.
"Mom! The boomer checks are back! Can I blow up now?"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 15:26 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6500 views] Top|| File under:

#1  well that ain't much, especially after Yasser and his boys skim off $3.5 Million for "a rainy day"
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 15:28 Comments || Top||

#2  al-Aqsa: We want our Holocaust II! Kill all Jews!
House of Sod: I'll your dough up. Now go blow up!
Posted by: Katz || 09/23/2003 15:36 Comments || Top||

#3  As they've said before, without the Saudis, there'd be no War on Terror.
Yeah, someone has to provide the opposition.
Keep cutting your own throats boys. They'll be by for you eventually... and you'll go with the knowledge that you bankrolled it yourself.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 16:03 Comments || Top||

#4  Deal with Saudi and Iranian money and you are 90% complete on WOT. Of course, WE of the western world are fighting our opponents who are financed with money we paid for OIL. So ultimately the WOT is all about OOOOOOOOiiiiiiiiiiillllllll and IIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSLLLLLLLLLAAMMM>

So do we:

1. Reform the Saudis and Iranians
2. Squash them like bugs
3. Develop alternative energy sources and leave em high and dry?

Or do we perform permutations of the above three actions?

In the big picture, this is what we are faced with.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 17:34 Comments || Top||

#5  There's nothing wrong with Riyadh a few thousand 500-pounders wouldn't cure, followed by a nice dose of napalm and allowed to "cook" for a few days.
The "royal family" needs to suffer a "Kennedy moment". Then the 2nd Marine Division needs to go in, knock a few heads, and build a huge fence around Mecca and Medina. We'll let any Muslim from anywhere in, as long as they stay there. Nothing goes back OUT over the wall.

Sooner or later, they'll get the message.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 19:16 Comments || Top||

#6  ..this amount comes in response to the Beirut summit appeal to Arab countries for an additional to $150 million to support the development sectors in Palestine.

"Development sectors" in Paleo-speak really means "bomb factories".
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 22:56 Comments || Top||

Saudis Reject Canadian Call for Torture Probe
Saudi Arabia said on Tuesday it had rejected Ottawa’s demand for an investigation into the case of a Canadian man who alleged he was regularly tortured during the 2-1/2 years he spent in a Riyadh jail. William Sampson — who was sentenced to death on a charge of involvement in a fatal bombing — said he was punched, kicked, hung upside down and beaten until he made a confession. He was released last month after receiving a royal pardon.
He was one of the so-called "alk runners".
Saudi Ambassador Mohammed al-Husseini said in a statement that he had delivered a diplomatic note to Canada’s Foreign Ministry on Monday dismissing the call for a probe. "The request to conduct an open investigation into Mr. Sampson’s allegations of torture goes against all laws and regulations, both within the kingdom and internationally," Al-Husseini said.
"It’s against the law to investigate Saudis, it’s in the book."
He said Riyadh’s desire for good ties with Ottawa was behind the pardon granted to Sampson, who he described as being guilty of "killing another human being who had the full right to live safe and secure with his family".
Still trying to pin a bombing on him, cuz everyone knows there are no terrorists in Saudi. Er, at least when this attack happened.
The uncompromising rejection will pose more problems for Foreign Minister Bill Graham, who has come under heavy pressure from opposition politicians to take a tough line with Riyadh. Some legislators want the Saudi ambassador to be expelled. Graham says he believes Sampson’s statements that he was tortured.
You didn’t believe him while he was being tortured. I think Mr. Graham needs to be expelled from his job.
Riyadh denies he was mistreated. No one at the Foreign Ministry was immediately available for comment on the ambassador’s statement.
I’ll bet they weren’t.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 1:19:41 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6500 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The candiens can have no beef with the Saudis. The house of Saud uses only the highest quality torturers. Not like the amatuers in Iran. Pikers.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 14:24 Comments || Top||

#2  Seems that pacifist stand during the Iraq war didn't help Canadian citizens find favor in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
Posted by: Yank || 09/23/2003 15:18 Comments || Top||

#3  Maybe when they expel the Saudi ambassador they can clean out the Islamists rats' nests they're harboring in Montreal and Toronto at the same time!
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/23/2003 17:44 Comments || Top||

#4  Compare and contrast:

Treatment of Westerners (mainly) encarcerated in Saudi jails due to the profligate 'Alk running' in the Kingdom.

Treatment of anyone in Gitmo.

'nuff said?

Witness the complete humiliation of Canada here - the Sods (love it - in Blighty, a Sod is a derogatory term) say that to investigate a Saudi on any terms an Infidel might find acceptable is not acceptable.

Perhaps the Canadian govt will start to see who their real friends are?
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 09/23/2003 18:05 Comments || Top||

#5  Perhaps PM Chretien forgot to say 'please'.
Posted by: A Jackson || 09/23/2003 21:06 Comments || Top||

Saudi Farm Raid Sets Off Hostage Standoff
Saudi security forces raided a farm Tuesday, setting off a running battle with gunmen who fled into a hospital and took foreigners hostage, security officials said.
Another farm, huh?
The battle began when security forces raided a farm near Jizan, about 600 miles south of the Saudi capital, Riyadh, searching for a number of suspects, the security officials said. Some of the suspects escaped and took refuge in the hospital building, taking a number of hostages, they said. The officials did not say why the suspects had been initially sought.
But we can guess.
The Arab satellite television station Al-Jazeera quoted a witness as saying the gunmen were holed up in a hospital housing unit with the hostages. The witness, identified only as Abdallah Abu Ezz Edin, said most of the hostages were foreigners and were freed as security forces stormed in and four gunmen surrendered. Abu Ezz Edin, speaking by telephone, also said at least two security officers were killed in the battle.
Being that this is Saudi with Al-Jazeera reporting, anything could have happened.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 9:40:40 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6493 views] Top|| File under:

#1  a farm with its own hospital? what exactly were they growing? RPGs?
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 10:11 Comments || Top||

#2  UPDATE: Several armed men, who stormed into King Fahd hospital in Jizan, located in southern Saudi Arabia Tuesday, clashed with Saudi security forces. According to media reports, during the incident several hostages, apparently hospital workers, had been taken. Following a few hours of clashes, the armed men eventually gave themselves in. According to official reports, one Saudi policeman was killed and three armed men were shot dead. Four policemen were slightly wounded.
According to press sources, the incident started after Saudi security forces raided a suspected hideout in Jazan looking for "wanted men". According to SPA, the suspects intended to carry out "terrorist" acts and possessed machine guns and hand grenades. The sources added that four armed men managed to escape police officials and stormed into the hospital compound taking the hostages, before they surrendered.

So, one Saudi security officer and three gunnies dead. These figures subject to change.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 10:55 Comments || Top||

#3  a farm with its own hospital?

Even before that -- they have farms in Saudi-controlled Arabia?
Posted by: Steve White || 09/23/2003 14:32 Comments || Top||

#4  yah got not just oil but hard to transport natural gas out the wazoo, you burn it to desalinate seawater, you dont care about money, you want farms, you got farms.

And IIUC parts of the southwest near Yemen get enough natural rainfall for agriculture.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/23/2003 14:50 Comments || Top||

#5  and whadaya know, it turns out Jizan is right on the yemen border.

Which is also a logical place for an Al qaeeda shoot out.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/23/2003 14:54 Comments || Top||

#6  Keystone cops
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/23/2003 20:46 Comments || Top||

Blow to Blair as majority say war not justified
Tony Blair has decisively lost the debate over Iraq with a clear majority of voters now saying that the war was unjustified, according to the results of this month’s Guardian/ICM poll published today. The survey shows that British public opinion on Iraq has moved sharply over the summer in the face of the Hutton inquiry, the failure to find weapons of mass destruction and the continuing instability in Baghdad. In the immediate aftermath of the war in April public support for the war peaked at 63%. By July it had slipped to 51% but a majority still said the war was justified. Now for the first time a clear majority are saying the war was unjustified (53%), and only 38% believe it was right to invade Iraq. The survey also shows that the Brent East byelection has provided a dramatic boost to the Liberal Democrats, who are now only two points behind the Tories and enjoying a 28% share of the vote, their highest poll rating for 14 years. The ICM poll shows Labour maintaining a five-point lead over the Conservatives but reveals serious erosion in the government’s reputation for economic competence in the last six months. On Iraq, the poll signals that the public is no longer giving Mr Blair the benefit of the doubt on the war.
Every lie comes to an end mr. Pinokio, crime does not pay off always.
On the other hand, a continuing barrage of propaganda often does have an effect...
Mr Blair’s failure to convince the public on Iraq may be one big factor in eroding Labour’s poll rating but the September ICM survey also uncovers a more subterranean shift. The party’s reputation for economic competence, which has been crucial to its landslide election successes since 1993, is showing signs of erosion. In March this year 47% of voters named Labour as the party with the best policies for
Posted by: Murat || 09/23/2003 3:33:39 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6500 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Damn fools of the Turkish foreign ministry declared that Turkish troops would be stationed in the Iraqi Al Anbar province when the parliament approves the bill.
Al Anbar province

Posted by: Murat || 09/23/2003 3:44 Comments || Top||

#2  I am sure Mr. Blair will be most disturbed to hear that, as well. He too was pulling for Baghdad.
Posted by: Mr. Davis || 09/23/2003 3:54 Comments || Top||

#3  News Flash!!!
This just in: 50% of the population of the UK are below the intellectual average! And, in an as yet unexplained statistical anomaly, an amazing 90% of Turks are too!

More to come... Stay tuned! Doh!
Posted by: .com || 09/23/2003 5:03 Comments || Top||

#4  News flash!!! bwahahhaaahaa
Bush rating takes a plunge, hits a new low

Washington, September 23: US President George W. Bush's approval rating has hit a new low, according to a poll, with only half of Americans saying they liked the way he's handling his job.

That's down from 71 per cent in late March, and from 60 per cent in early August, according to the USA Today/CNN/Gallup survey released on Monday.

His disapproval rating, meanwhile, hit a new high of 47 per cent, up from 36 per cent in early August and 25 per cent in late March.

The survey also found for the first time that a Democratic candidate could beat Bush if the next Presidential election were held today.

Former Nato Commander Wesley Clark would beat Bush 49 per cent to 46 percent, and Senator John Kerry would win 48 to 47 per cent.

Bush had only a narrow lead over other leading Democrats, beating former Vermont governor Howard Dean 49-46 per cent, Representative Dick Gephardt 48-46 per cent and Senator Joe Lieberman 48-47 per cent.

All those rankings fell within the poll's margin of error of three percentage points, but indicate that Bush no longer has a clear lead over his rivals.

Americans are also divided over the war in Iraq, with only half saying that it was worth fighting. Some 63 per cent said it was worth fighting when asked the same question in late August, and 76 per cent backed the war at the time of Saddam Hussein's ouster.
Posted by: Murat || 09/23/2003 5:53 Comments || Top||

#5  Guys, Murat's pathological hatred is turning him into the Tony Foresta of Rantburg. Either reign him in, or he's going to drive people away from the site.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 09/23/2003 8:30 Comments || Top||

#6  Murat and his tyrant-loving ilk (read almost all the media and surrounding Arab countries) must miss Hussein and his sons terribly: They kept Iraq at a sub-optimal level, and allowed them the distinction of being the most advanced of Muslim countries. When (not if, but when) Iraq takes its place in the circle of nations as the most democratic Muslim nation. Poor Turkey will be outclassed and there go Murat's bragging rights.

The poll he cites (no link, *wags finger* bad murat. Doesn't want fact checking, obviously), very likely includes disapproval of Bush's handling of the Israeli-palestinian issue: I believe he IS flubbing the ball there and in NKor.

Of course, Bush has his ways to respond, and a change going down in, what, 5 months, can be reversed in 14 months: Yeah, he'd probably lose NOW, but we happen to live in a Nation of Laws (one would hope), and it's not being held now. If it was held in August, you'd scream bloody murder, but would approve of it being held now, since it would get rid of him.

Remember people, we didn't see Murat for an awfully long time after the War. He can dish it out, but can't take it. I say wait on Bush: The World still hasn't gotten a handle, or a clue, about Texans, much less Murat. He won't give us the pleasure of taunting him in the same way he taunts us now: We're rantburgers, and Loyal. He isn't.
Posted by: Ptah || 09/23/2003 9:07 Comments || Top||

#7  Still can't figure out that headline/link thing, eh Mu-Rat?
Posted by: Parabellum || 09/23/2003 9:17 Comments || Top||

#8  The blood of an Armenian a day helps keep freedom away, for the Turks, that is.
Posted by: Ernest Brown || 09/23/2003 9:36 Comments || Top||

#9  Ptah,

Murat and his fascism-loving friends were stunned that their backstabbing treachery failed to stop our military successes in Iraq, and he fled like the moral coward that he is. As Iraq develops into a reproach to Turkey's statism, watch him do another fade. As for myself, I'll have fun laughing at Turkey's honorless grovelling for EU admission, all sympathy for their plight drained away by their veneration of Saddam's evil.
Posted by: Ernest Brown || 09/23/2003 9:39 Comments || Top||

#10  Congrats to the democrats all around.

I strongly recommend, though, you do your celebrating now, because in Nov. 2004, you all will be broke and beaten.

The problem with this bounce in the polls for democrats is that it is at the cost of national defense. Our enemies are seeing that the president's political opponents are benefitting because of their unfounded criticism of Bush and his handling of the war in Iraq. They see a common cause with democrats. That linkage, once made, will be devastating for the democrats in 2004.

My guess is once folks see what traitorous means the democrats used to get these numbers, they will turn on the democrats, and turn to the Republicans for guiding this country in this ongoing war against its enemies.
Posted by: badanov || 09/23/2003 9:45 Comments || Top||

#11  Unfortunately for people like Murat and NMM, USA Today/CNN/Gallup polls are notorious for being biased, partisan, and quite often, far off the mark. Of course, with every "news" organization in the US constantly blaring anti-Bush, anti-war sentiment, warping and twisting every event in Iraq into a negative presentation, what would one expect of someone querried because they "subscribe" to one of the national news medias. That IS where USA Today/CNN/Gallup poll surveyers get their "unbiased random sampling" - from New York Times subscribers.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 10:18 Comments || Top||

#12  You're pointing to a Guardian article?

Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 10:21 Comments || Top||

#13  News flash

Sad news from Mosul, US soldier killed by accidental shooting. Friendly fire?????
Posted by: Murat || 09/23/2003 10:32 Comments || Top||

#14  M'rat? blow me
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 10:52 Comments || Top||

#15  US soldier killed by accidental shooting. Friendly fire?

This may come as a surprise to you, but nothing is perfect, even military campaigns and occupations.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 11:10 Comments || Top||

#16  I ask you again Murat, you worthless turd: what is your point? Is it:

1) You believe that Iraq and its people were better off under the dictotorial regime of Saddam and that Iraq posed NO THREAT to either its citizens and neighbors;


2) You're merely consumed by hatred of anything and everything American and have thusly appointed yourself resident troll here.

Pick one, you gutless punk--no flowery language, no sideshows and diversions, simply tell us all which position most correctly explains why you are such a worthless prick.
Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/23/2003 11:37 Comments || Top||

#17  >Old Patriot--the only poll that counts is the one next November--so I'm not planning to run up to DC yet to welcome in a Democratic President. One thing the poll does show is a trend in public opinion--one I'm sure you and many fellow Rantbourgeois don't like. But don't worry--the American sheeple have the attention span of gnats. If Bush declares victory and gets out of Iraq by next September that could all change....
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/23/2003 12:08 Comments || Top||

#18  Wild Dumrul has no honor, like his parasitic namesake.
Posted by: Ernest Brown || 09/23/2003 12:27 Comments || Top||

#19  Arguing with Murat is like arguing with a bag of cement.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 13:42 Comments || Top||

#20  Statistics. Support for the War has slipped from 63% high to 38% today. So what? The war is over. Looks like 25% changed their minds. Those 25% probably wake up in the morning and realize they drank too much the night before. Doesn't change the situation does it.

Posted by: john || 09/23/2003 14:39 Comments || Top||

#21  Hey! That's not nice!
Posted by: Bag of Cement || 09/23/2003 14:39 Comments || Top||

#22  Murat wrote: Damn fools of the Turkish foreign ministry declared that Turkish troops would be stationed in the Iraqi Al Anbar province when the parliament approves the bill. Al Anbar province.

Wotta shame! Stuck out in the middle of the western desert. Except for the parts that are within the Sunni Triangle. No Kurds, no oil, no greenery, just lots of foreign jihadis and Saddam dead-enders. They won't object at all to potting Turk soldiers -- same as Americans to them. Make sure the Turk soldiers bring lots of sunscreen 'n' bullets!

Murat then wrote: Sad news from Mosul, US soldier killed by accidental shooting. Friendly fire?????

I'm reading "sad news from Mosul" as if you mean that seriously. It is sad, it's always sad when one of our soldiers die. We'll hear about the cause before too long.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/23/2003 14:40 Comments || Top||

#23  At least the Turks get the enjoyment of policing Falluja. That's been a hotbed for our boys.
Posted by: Bill || 09/23/2003 15:12 Comments || Top||

#24  If Bush declares victory and gets out of Iraq by next September that could all change....

If GWB does just that, he's going to LOSE my vote. Abandoning the Iraqis in haste will surely result in one hell of a bloodbath, which would be inexcusable. Since we are in there, and fully involved, the wisest and most responsible course of action is to see it through until they are reasonably ready to take their own steps. It may not take a whole year to reach that point, and quite frankly, I wouldn't expect it to. If it did, great, but that's not a realistic target to hope or shoot for.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 16:00 Comments || Top||

#25  Turkey's honorless grovelling for EU admission

LOL. Rather pathetic really. But.. one can always dream.
Posted by: Rafael || 09/23/2003 19:04 Comments || Top||

#26  This was Al Guardian's own poll. You might as well have asked Joseph Goebbels what the Dutch thought in the summer of 1943. Guardian is in the business of inciting, manipulating and exploiting the traditional bigotry of the British status-seeker classes. In the current context this means academic confomists, media-slaves and Arab-investment arse-kissers.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/23/2003 19:28 Comments || Top||

#27  Folks, you know what CLINTON'S job ratings were 14 months before the Nov. 1996 election? 43% approved of the way he was doing his job in September 1995 and it stayed sub-50% until, surprise, the primary season began in March.

American presidents almost ALWAYS lose popularity in the year before they run for re-election. Familiarity breeds a little contempt. But when the real thing gets closer, when people actually have to consider a choice between two candidates, when it matters, these things can change very radically...and usually in the incumbent's favor.

The general electorate doesn't know much, YET, about the erratic Wesley Clark and very little about the other 9 dwarfs. Hell, remember 1988? People thought Mike Dukakis was the bomb...until the campaign started.

Oh, and by the way, Clinton actually went below 40% a couple of times in his first term...

Posted by: R. McLeod || 09/24/2003 1:28 Comments || Top||

Turkish soldiers kill suspected rebels
Three men suspected of being members of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), were shot dead by the Turkish army in central Turkey. The three were ordered by officers to surrender but refused and were killed. It said the clash took place in the Tokat region, but did not provide details on when the shooting had taken place. It, however, added that the military operation was continuing.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 15:35 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6482 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul told Reuters the Turks were not yet satisfied with U.S. responses to Kurdish PKK guerrillas in northern Iraq and wanted assurances of action before they decide whether to send peacekeepers.

Thank you for $8.5 billion. Let's see what is next in the list...
Posted by: . || 09/23/2003 17:14 Comments || Top||

#2  Murat? Any comments?
Posted by: Mike || 09/23/2003 18:00 Comments || Top||

#3  Turkey has never gotten over it's colonialist past.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/23/2003 18:46 Comments || Top||

Chirac lays out plan for Iraqi sovereignty
President Jacques Chirac on Sunday called for the immediate transfer of sovereignty in Iraq to the Iraqi people and indicated that France would only approve a new United Nations resolution that recognized this need. In an hour-long interview at the Elysée Palace, Chirac for the first time laid out a two-stage plan for Iraqi self-rule involving first a symbolic transfer of sovereignty from American hands to the existing 25-member Iraqi Governing Council, followed by the gradual ceding of real power over the next six to nine months. The French president added that if the Security Council, France included, could agree on empowering Iraqis at once, France would be ready to train Iraqi police and soldiers - either in or out of Iraq. And Chirac, who opposed America's war in Iraq, said that although France had no intention of sending troops to participate in the American-led military occupation force, circumstances could change.

"There will be no concrete solution unless sovereignty is transferred to Iraq as quickly as possible," Chirac said, speaking just before he departed for New York, where he will meet with President George W. Bush on Tuesday. He called the administration of Iraq, an Arab and Muslim country, by a "governor who is Christian and foreign" dangerous and "a very difficult situation for any people to accept in the 21st century." As for the deployment of French combat troops to Iraq, Chirac said, "We are talking about training, and not sending troops to Iraq, of course."

But at another point, he was less categorical, saying, "As things are now, there is no situation where I can imagine that France would send troops to Iraq," adding, however, "Everything could change. I don't have a crystal ball. But for the moment, this is the position of France and the position of a number of countries." It is not clear whether Chirac intended to hold out the possibility of deploying French troops, however slight, as a means of negotiating a resolution more palatable to France. The United States has already ruled out any plan to strip the current American administrator of Iraq, L. Paul Bremer 3rd, of his power, saying that a hasty transition to Iraqis would be counterproductive and dangerous. Britain, America's main ally in the war, has expressed similar concerns.

The sharp divergence between the United States and France over the management of post-war Iraq reflects both the scars of a year-long conflict between two old allies and their profoundly different visions of the place of American power and the role of the United Nations in the world. Chirac made clear on Sunday that he did not intend to veto the pending U.S.-sponsored resolution unless it somehow became "provocative." "I have no intention of opposing the resolution, that is, saying 'no,' vetoing it," he said. "I am not in that mind-set at all." But France will vote in favor of the resolution only if it includes a precise deadline for the transfer of sovereignty, a timetable for the transfer of actual power and a "key role" for the UN, although he did not spell out what that would be, he said. Otherwise, he added, France will abstain.

Chirac's proposal suggested that it would be difficult for the two sides to agree on the wording of a resolution introduced this month by the Bush administration in an attempt to secure the United Nations blessing necessary to attract more foreign troops and more international funds to Iraq. While Chirac wants to get power in Iraq out of American hands at least symbolically by a transfer of sovereignty, the Bush administration argues that the Iraqis are not ready and that the only beneficiaries of a quick handover of any authority would be former Iraqi exiles who are politically active but enjoy little support among the Iraqi people. And whereas Chirac believes that the continued governance of Iraq by the United States will produce more violence and require a longer presence of foreign troops, the United States believes that the relinquishing of any authority will create more chaos. Still, Chirac seemed eager to appear conciliatory, saying twice said that whenever American soldiers are killed in Iraq, "It hurts us," and rejecting any suggestion that the aim of his proposal was to provoke the United States. "I want you to understand that I'm not saying 'white' because the Americans say 'black,'" he declared. Rather, he said, his goal was to engineer in Iraq a system similar to that already functioning in Afghanistan, where the Afghan leader, Hamid Karzai, has full sovereignty over the country, while the United States and its coalition partners keep the peace through the presence of their troops.

"I am not inventing anything extraordinary, as I have read somewhere, simply to annoy the United States," Chirac said of his ideas for what he described as an increasingly dangerous situation in Iraq. In an indication that France's negotiating position is fluid, Chirac refused to articulate a precise timetable for Iraqi self-rule except to say that sovereignty should be transferred as quickly as possible. Last week, however, Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin laid out a plan under which Iraq would establish a provisional government in a month, write a constitution by the end of the year and hold elections next spring, all under UN auspices. The U.S. secretary of state, Colin Powell, quickly dismissed de Villepin's proposal as "totally unrealistic."

Chirac is also seeking to avoid a repetition of the diplomatic fiasco in March, when he went on national television nine days before the war began to say that France would veto any United Nations resolution paving the way to war. That declaration contributed to Washington's failure to get a resolution justifying the war, damaged France's relationship with the Bush administration and sparked outrage among the American people. Even if France abstains, the United States is likely to receive the nine votes necessary to pass the resolution. Chirac said that France would be willing to provide financial support and military and police training for Iraq once sovereignty is transferred to the Iraqis.

Although Chirac was relaxed and spoke easily throughout most of the interview, the subject of post-war Iraq was so sensitive that he referred to type-written talking points highlighted in yellow when he spoke about it. Chirac took exception with the Bush administration's conviction that the overthrow of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein would provide the catalyst for the spread of peace and democracy in the Middle East. "I'd like to think so, but frankly, I don't believe so," he said, calling the war "traumatic for this region and culture." Despite his insistence on a quick, symbolic transfer of sovereignty to the Iraqis, Chirac stated paradoxically that elections had to be handled with care, because the majority of Iraqis belong to the Shiite branch of Islam. "Are the Shiites in this analysis the real symbol of tomorrow's democracy?" he asked. "It is not so obvious."

Chirac confessed that his own experience as an officer in France's colonial war in Algeria had influenced his thinking about Iraq, because it proved to him that a vast and powerful army could be defeated by a small group of determined adversaries convinced of the right to run their own country. "We know from experience that imposing a law on people from the outside hasn't worked for a long time," he said. The French president defended his position before the war that United Nations weapons inspectors should have been given more time to complete their work before war was waged. He noted that no weapons of mass destruction had been found inside Iraq, which the Bush administration used as the main justification for going to war. Chirac said that it was "absolutely not" wrong to overthrow Hussein, but added that he should have been overthrown "without a war."

Asked whether he had been tempted to tell Bush, "You were wrong," he replied, "On subjects as complex as this, it is always wrong to think that you are right and the other person is always necessarily wrong. This is a serious mistake and you always pay the consequences." Chirac defended his outburst last February when he berated Central and Eastern European countries poised to join the European Union for missing an opportunity to "keep quiet" when they signed letters supporting American policy in Iraq before the war. "I don't regret it; I should regret it, but I don't," he said, adding, "You can take your own position if you want to. That's not the problem. But at least warn us first so we don't look ridiculous." Such an approach, he said, is "not the way that Europe is made."

Chirac also defended the concept of a common European defense policy outside of the framework of the NATO alliance, a development that the United States strongly opposes. "There is nothing unpleasant about it for the Americans," he said. "It suggests ignorance of the way things are to imagine it would be against them." Chirac cited America's insistence that Europe take charge of keeping the peace in the Balkans, and said, "We can do this, but how? With a flute?"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 08:27 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6499 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'm beginning to think we need to deploy a Marine division to the SE of England.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/23/2003 8:50 Comments || Top||

#2  Yep and more of those Woody Allen ads chastizing us for not loving France like we used to (i.e.: $) - that's what will bring Merkins around...it's Simplisme!
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 9:36 Comments || Top||

#3  'Despite his insistence on a quick, symbolic transfer of sovereignty to the Iraqis, Chirac stated paradoxically that elections had to be handled with care, because the majority of Iraqis belong to the Shiite branch of Islam. "Are the Shiites in this analysis the real symbol of tomorrow's democracy?" he asked. "It is not so obvious." '

well nothings real obvious, is it? (Certainly not how to parse Chiracs sentences:)) Fact is, French policy is in a shambles. France is reduced to calling for the handing of power to Chalabi and the other exiles, just the people they wanted to keep from power in Febuary. In essence they are backing the original Garner plan for Iraqi reconstruction. Faced with a choice between Bremer, and Bremer's "handpicked lackeys" they'll go with the lackeys, who are asserting SOME independence, even if their first goal seems to be to ban Al-Jazeera. France has given up on establishing a UN regime that might be able to cultivate genuine anti-US iraqis. In the face of this "surrender" Iraqi politics has become confused. Chalabi and the council, eager for power, are tentatively reaching out to the French and Germans, even as Chalabi says he "wont fall into the trap of France". I suspect there is a lot of behind the scenes maneuvering involving Powell, Bremer, Wolfie, Chalabi, etc that involves alliances that some would find VERY surprising.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/23/2003 9:41 Comments || Top||

#4  Who died and left Jack$$$ Chirac in charge? Why does he think he and he alone has the right to set conditions for Iraq? He didn't do anything but get in the way in removing Saddam. He and his "nation" have done nothing to aid in Iraq's rebuilding. He and the Phewrench have actively worked to make the job in Iraq more difficult. Now he wants to step in, take control from the "fumbling Americans" and "show us how it's done". The man should be 'dis'invited to the White House, and every dime we spend in Phewrance needs to be withheld or spent elsewhere. Tell the Phewrench to drink their wine and bottled water. Everything the Phewrench touches turns to dung - we don't need that in Iraq.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 10:02 Comments || Top||

#5  A suggestion: disinter every single American soldier buried on French soil and return them home. That will send a clear, unambiguous message.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 10:24 Comments || Top||

#6  Dear Jacques -

Please fuck off.

Thanks -

Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 10:27 Comments || Top||

#7  P.S: And your mother too.

Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/23/2003 11:13 Comments || Top||

#8  Mojo-
Normally, I think that blunt profanity it counter productive. In this case, I can only agree. Keep that Mojo working.
Posted by: Highlander || 09/23/2003 11:13 Comments || Top||

#9  I tried to construct a Venn Diagram to discern what Shitrack is after. Nobody else try this as the result was simular to playing a Led Zepplin album backwards. When researching French policy nobody should use a Oiji board alone either.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 12:12 Comments || Top||

#10  He called the administration of Iraq, an Arab and Muslim country, by a "governor who is Christian and foreign" dangerous and "a very difficult situation for any people to accept in the 21st century." Funny, but the most recent and extensive polling from Iraq suggests that given a choice between a Syrian, Egyptian, Iranian, Saudi, or American model of government, the overwhelming choice was an American model of Democracy. Roughly by about 81%. Even the Shiites preferred it over their own Inainian system. Tellingly, the only support for an Islamic state came from the Sunni/Baathists. Iraq is largly a secular state. Someone should tell that french guy.
Posted by: jak || 09/23/2003 13:20 Comments || Top||

#11  Jacques Chiraq----Who elected you leader of this outfit??
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 13:34 Comments || Top||

#12  In other news, the dog, the pig, and goose told the Little Red Hen where to go.
Posted by: Katz || 09/23/2003 13:47 Comments || Top||

#13  post ww2 french army vast and powerful?? just a little wishful thinking
Posted by: Dan || 09/23/2003 17:13 Comments || Top||

#14  Yep Dan, the French army could crush the Principality of Monaco in less than 24 hours; the Republic of Andorra in a couple days....the list goes on..
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/23/2003 17:51 Comments || Top||

#15  What!?

I said please, didn't I?...
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 18:12 Comments || Top||

#16  Just follow the money.
Posted by: Matt || 09/23/2003 18:39 Comments || Top||

#17  Hard questions.... Normandy? Brittany? The Rhone Valley? Or a standing start quicky thru Sedan?
Posted by: Shipman || 09/23/2003 18:50 Comments || Top||

#18  Shipman, none of the above is worth one dead American ever again (not that I'm worried about the French actually putting up a defense, but one of the GI's might choke on a croissant in a Paris cafe or something like that).
Posted by: Baba Yaga || 09/23/2003 21:34 Comments || Top||

#19  Baba Yaga,

Before JFM jumps in, let me remind you that Vichy fought harder in comparative terms against us in N. Africa than it did against the German takeover of S. France in '42.
Posted by: Ernest Brown || 09/23/2003 23:07 Comments || Top||

Chirac: Friendship With U.S. Will Prevail
Like hell. EFL.
The friendship between France and the United States will always prevail over the countries’ political differences, French President Jacques Chirac said Monday. Chirac’s comments, made during a visit to inaugurate a French school in New York, came as the two nations try to avoid another political showdown at the United Nations over Iraq.
Bush doesn’t look like he’ll back down so it’s up to you Jacques to avoid a showdown.
While Chirac never mentioned Iraq, it clearly was on his mind.
Of course -- he needs the money!
``Events over the past few months have led to tension in relations between our countries. I want to share my personal conviction with all of you, however, that the friendship between France and the United States is deeply rooted in our history,’’ he told several hundred parents, teachers, and French and American dignitaries. ``This friendship between our people will always prevail over our differences.’’
We’re still not buying your whine.
Chirac spoke ahead of a Tuesday meeting with President Bush after Bush addresses the U.N. General Assembly. During Monday’s school tour, Chirac called the Lycee Francais of New York a symbol of the deep bonds uniting the two countries. Children from 44 countries are represented at the prestigious private school on the Upper East Side. As he arrived, the school’s choir sang ``We speak French. All over New York, they speak French,’’ from the song entitled, "The French Are Toast" ``French Toast.’’ Chirac was accompanied by French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin, a former Lycee student, who is alleged to be a man.
From that Lycee? Or just a lycee in general?
Chirac’s trip to the United States is the first in nearly two years. His last visit came just two months after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. ``I remember my meeting in Washington with President Bush, our common determination to respond to the attacks with an unprecedented mobilization against terrorism,’’ he said.
"Then I went home and forgot all about it!"
Chirac noted that France was president of the Security Council when it authorized the use of force in Afghanistan.
"But that did not cost us anything!"
There is much at stake for U.S.-French relations. Bush is trying to win U.N. backing for a resolution that would bring much-needed foreign reinforcements for U.S. troops in Iraq and give the U.N. more authority in rebuilding the country. France, which led opposition to the war in Iraq, wants to jiggle the American elbow a quicker turnover of sovereignty to Iraqis. Chirac has called for a return to Iraqi rule within months.
What exactly will the French bring to the party if we do it their way? A brigade of peacekeepers? Ten billion euros in reconstruction aid? They don’t have anything to contribute.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/23/2003 1:47:04 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6464 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I've have always considered anyone who chooses willful ignorance to be beneath contempt. Reality just IS - each individual's ability to accept it and deal with it as it exists is his measure. The intensity of a desire or belief has absolutely no effect upon reality. Simplified summary: He not dealing with reality is, by definition, dealing in phantasy.

This is Chirac whistling past the graveyard. Lousy tune - and repetitious. Phuck off, boyz.
Posted by: .com || 09/23/2003 5:16 Comments || Top||

#2  Tom Freidman was saying that Iraq has become France's proxy war with the US. On the plus side, we should expect France to do what it always does in wartime, surrender.
Posted by: Ben || 09/23/2003 5:52 Comments || Top||

#3  Ben - i think they already have.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/23/2003 9:43 Comments || Top||

#4  Chirac is the biggest threat there is to the European Union. I think quite a few people in Europe are beginning to be aware of that fact.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 10:22 Comments || Top||

#5  The friendship between France and the United States will always prevail over the countries’ political differences, French President Jacques Chirac said Monday.

Friendship has to exist before it can prevail. If the political classes and the snobby French elite are counted out of the equation, then yes, it will.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 11:15 Comments || Top||

#6  Dear American friends

I hope one day France and the USA can be friends again. But that will not happen until Chirac an Villepin are hanged from the nearest tree.
Posted by: JFM || 09/23/2003 11:33 Comments || Top||

#7  The Frogs are completely useless! Even in Korea, which was approved by the UN and the Frogs! All they sent to fight was a single Infantry Battalion!
Posted by: Greg || 09/23/2003 11:42 Comments || Top||

#8  Very uncertain, but french army is allegedly planning for troops deployment in Irak, "in the scale of the GWI division Daguet" (that would be 10-12 000 men, which seems awfully high). That would indicate that, yes, Chirac has surrendered and is willing to participate, in order to get a slice of the iraqi pie. The UN would make a good cover for a U-turn, at least for public opinion, as the USA "crawling back" to the UN is presented here as a major blow to unilateralism, and the acknowlegment of the US failure in Iraq. An another great victory for France, for internal consumption only.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/23/2003 12:15 Comments || Top||

#9  I travelled extensively in Europe during my four tours there with the Air Force. The ONLY place I was made to feel unwelcome was Paris. The people of Normandy are wonderful. I've never had any problems visiting Nancy or Strasbourg. Paris, however, is like another universe. The "France" of Jacques Chirac is the "France" of Paris. I hope that the rest of the nation wises up and dumps this one-man disaster before it poisons the rest of the world even more against the French people.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 12:20 Comments || Top||

#10  The thoroughly unoffical, grass-roots boycott of french goods and vacations has already dropped their yearly take by some 17% (IIRC).

Time to make it official? Put them on the Axis of Evil list, stop all trade and lock up any accounts in the US.

Smile (nastily).

"Care to try again?"
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 15:54 Comments || Top||

#11  Vell, no El Qaeeeda or Baatheest evair called me... Froggy.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 16:14 Comments || Top||

#13  As far as I'm concerned, Froggistan under Chiraq is an enemy nation ruled by bigots, Vichyite dhimmis, and arrogant nationalist psychopaths. In the UK and Ireland, at least, the anti-American racism and bigotry are limited to the chattering classes and their bourgeois sycophants. In Frog-land, Arab money has bought out the whole whorehouse.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/23/2003 19:03 Comments || Top||

Fifth Column
Airman at Gitmo Charged With Espionage
An Air Force airman who worked at the U.S. prison camp for suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base has been charged with espionage and aiding the enemy, a military spokesman said Tuesday. Senior Airman Ahmad I. al-Halabi worked as an Arabic language translator at the prison camp for Al Qaeda and Taliban suspects, spokesman Maj. Michael Shavers said. The Air Force enlisted man knew the Muslim chaplain at the prison arrested earlier this month, but it’s unclear if the two arrests are linked, Shavers said.
Being very careful, our spokesman.
Al-Halabi is being held at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, Shavers said. Earlier Tuesday, senior military officials told Fox News that a member of the Navy was also in custody, under suspicion of espionage and possible improper communications with the camp’s detainees. The Navy member’s role at the camp has not been disclosed.
Any bets on if he is muslim as well?
Fox News has learned al-Halabi and the Navy member both were detained roughly two weeks before Islamic military chaplain James Yee was arrested.
Detained very quietly.
Yee’s connection to these two is not clear at this time, though officials do say that the two were being surveyed for some time before Yee came to their attention. Pentagon officials said Yee and al-Halabi knew each other but said it was not clear if the arrests were connected.
"I can say no more, at this time."
Yee, 35, was arrested Sept. 10 in Jacksonville, Fla., after getting off a flight from Guantanamo Bay and is being held at the consolidated Naval Brig in Charleston, SC. A senior law enforcement official said authorities confiscated classified documents Yee was carrying.
But determining what Yee’s intentions were may be difficult, according to one senior official. The official told Fox News that he was having a difficult time assessing the meaning of the articles said to be in the chaplain’s possession when he was arrested.
Yee was detained in part because he carried classified information without having something called a "courier card" in his possession. Such mistakes are not uncommon, the official said. Yee also possessed a laptop equipped with a modem, and modems are strictly forbidden at the base. The official pointed out that nearly every laptop now sold is equipped with a dialup modem.
Who is this guy, Yee’s defense attorney? Better turn this over to the not-so-friendly people in the FBI.
A Pentagon official told Fox News that classified information was also found on the laptop of the Air Force member now in custody. But the official said slip-ups like this -- which he described as "sloppy computer security" -- are somewhat common.
BULLSHIT!!!! It’s not sloppy if you have classified information and you are not supposed to!! Sounds like they are trying to cover up the fact that muslim active duty military members are helping the terrorists. They don’t want to go down that road. If these facts are true, then I have no faith that they can investigate this in house.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 3:41:07 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6510 views] Top|| File under:

#1  first! Bwahahaha
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 15:44 Comments || Top||

#2  Second: Odds are that these guys are not members of the Knights of Columbus. This Political Correctness is going to kill us. I hope that these arrests and revelations are going to tighten things up. No telling how much damage has been done. There should be the Quoran available to the prisoners as a manner of principle, but no chaplains. Treat the prisoners humanely, but remember that they are sworn to Jihad and to destroying us. We are detaining killers, not trying to rehabilitate criminals. These guys are wired to kill.

Reasoning together in this situation, is, regretably, not an option. (*wipes away tear*)
/sarcasm off
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 16:03 Comments || Top||

#3  Amen Steve! You DO NOT have access to classified information unless you have a 'need to know.' It's called compartment of information. That way IF there is a leak you list of suspects is smaller. Other than being a translator, I am not sure what Achmed would be doing (assigned duty). At the trial he will claim some religious law that forces him to help brother Muslims. Tie this guys balls to a F-16 just before takeoff!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/23/2003 16:10 Comments || Top||

#4  The implications here are too obvious to even mention. Unfortunatley we are unlikely to take the needed action.
Posted by: SPQR 2755 || 09/23/2003 16:16 Comments || Top||

#5  escape plans, hmmm? may need to switch to Rabbis to assist the prisoners with their religious needs
heh heh
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 16:21 Comments || Top||

#6  Well, they ain't gonna hang these guys. That's a given.

But, gosh, how about they get life at Gitmo.

Be kinda appropriate. And the Imam could carry on with his good works bringing comfort and ministering to the flock.

(They already know the rules).
Posted by: Michael || 09/23/2003 16:39 Comments || Top||

#7  I have seen few cases where it was feasible to hang a traitor, becuase it is almost always valuable to know what information has leaked. There is always a deal.

This may be the exception. One of these guys should be expendab;e as an example.

There is a story, probably an urban legend in Norfolk about a Turkish ship that tried to execute a petty thief that embarassed Turkey in Va Beach. The base commander laid down the law -- no executions were allowed at NOB. So the Turkish captain sailed out over the 5 mile limit and returned with the sailor swinging from the yardarm.

One of these guys should get the same treatment.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 17:52 Comments || Top||

#8  I've worked with classified information most of my Air Force career. Classified data was NEVER mixed with unclassified material, and NEVER allowed on personal equipment. Just having it on his hard drive is enough to justify a charge of compromising classified material. We usually send such people to Leavenworth, Kansas, and have them make gravel from larger rocks. I'm beginning to believe, however, that building a prison block in Fairbanks exclusively for Muslim inmates might be more appropriate. To make them feel at home, we'll even allow them their customary tents and camels - and their one pair of summer cotton pants, short-sleeve cotton shirt, and sandals. I'm sure the camels would survive...
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 19:40 Comments || Top||

#9  I am far more alarmed by the violent retoric of this page than I am of so called "spys" at Guantanamo Bay. We are not at "war". President Bush has declared the "war" over. We are trying to build the peace. You aren't helping. The "detainees" have been held for months with no information about who they are because the US has declared them not to be "prisoners of war". Their families have no idea what has become of them - we don't really know who is alive or dead. If they were your sons wouldn't you want to know? Wouldn't you do anything to find out? As for Old Patriot, he doesn't know what he is talking about. In the Government these days, almost everything is classified. So, if someone has any information on his machine, he'll be introuble. Apparently you people don't believe in freedom, except for yourselves? On Saturday, I'll pick up my uncle's POW medal, he can't make it - he's dead. The camp in Cuba isn't unlike the one where he died. Even under the Japanese he was allowed to write home, let his family know he was alive. But not at the Bay. The Camp is a crime against humanity and those who try to let us know what is going on there are criminals. Didn't you always wonder how the Nazi's got away with death camps in Germany with neighbors all around - Now you know how they did it. Shame on all of you.
Posted by: Freedom Fighter || 09/24/2003 11:29 Comments || Top||

#10  No Freedom Fighter, you're wrong. What's truly disturbing is that thousands of people had to die on September 11th for anyone in our country to even ADMIT that there was a war on--one that violent Islamofacists had overtly acknowledged for decades. Screw the violent f*cks rotting in Gitmo--they get better treatment there than "infidels" get at the hands of the Islamofacists. "Crime against humanity"? How can you even utter such a phrase when it comes to those who have many times over pledged the destruction of not only "hardliners" (such as you probably see us) but also people like yourself (what, you think your self-deceived "reasonableness" makes you any less of an "infidel"??? They would kill you just as quickly as they would one of us).
Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/24/2003 19:12 Comments || Top||

Air Force airman charged with espionage
A U.S. Air Force enlisted man has been charged with espionage after being taken into custody as part of an investigation at the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The senior airman was detained a month ago because he allegedly had classified information about suspected al Qaeda detainees and facilities at the Guantanamo Bay base on his laptop computer.
rolling it up over time - sounds like they were under surveillance for a while
He was taken into custody about two weeks before Army Islamic chaplain Capt. James Yee was detained for similar reasons, but officials said there currently was no proof that the two cases are linked. He is being held at Vandenberg Air Force Base, California. Officials said that when the airman was questioned he had no reasonable explanation for possessing the classified material.
"Ummm... It ain't mine. Somebody left it here..."
"I was gonna post it on Rantburg?"
Officials also told CNN that there is a possibility of additional arrests soon of other members of the U.S. military. Yee, who also has not been charged, is being held in the brig in Charleston, South Carolina, on suspicion of espionage and treason. U.S. military authorities took him into custody September 10 at the Jacksonville, Florida, Naval Air Station while he was in possession of classified documents "that a chaplain shouldn’t have," said an official, speaking on the condition of anonymity. The official said the documents included "diagrams of the cells and the facilities at Guantanamo," where the military is holding about 600 suspected al Qaeda members and others termed enemy combatants.
Like I said, a bustout...
Yee also allegedly was carrying lists of the detainees as well as their interrogators. In addition, Yee is suspected of having ties to radical Muslims in the United States that are now under investigation, the official said, adding that he couldn’t elaborate.
"I can say no more!"
Yee, who has been assigned a military defense lawyer, can be held for 120 days before the military charges him with any offense. He appeared September 15 before a military magistrate who ruled there was sufficient reason to hold him in pretrial confinement.
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 3:27:11 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6466 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sounds like Gitmo's going to git mo' inmates.
Posted by: Katz || 09/23/2003 15:28 Comments || Top||

#2  WaPo has more:
An Air Force airman who worked as a translator at the U.S. prison camp for suspected terrorists has been charged with espionage and aiding the enemy, a military spokesman said Tuesday.

Senior Airman Ahmad I. al-Halabi is being held at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, spokesman Maj. Michael Shavers said.

Al-Halabi worked as an Arabic language translator at the prison camp for al-Qaida and Taliban suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Shavers said. The Air Force enlisted man knew the Muslim chaplain at the prison arrested earlier this month, but it's unclear if the two arrests are linked, Shavers said.

Al-Halabi is charged with nine counts related to espionage, three counts of aiding the enemy, 11 counts of disobeying a lawful order, and nine counts of making a false official statement. The charges were brought against him at Vandenberg, Shavers said.

Al-Halabi was based at Travis Air Force Base in California and assigned to a logistics unit there, Shavers said.

Pentagon officials said an investigation into possible security breaches at Guantanamo Bay continues
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 15:40 Comments || Top||

#3  Vandenberg is on the CA coast north of Santa Barbara, and about as isolated from Gitmo and Arabs as he can get....interrogation time!
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 15:41 Comments || Top||

#4  I'd guess the breaches are the result of a concerted assault. I wonder if they have any leads on the controllers for these two...
Posted by: Fred || 09/23/2003 15:44 Comments || Top||

#5  Anyone seeing a connection between American Mulims and terrorists? Anyone want to bet that this is NOT that last case to come out of Gitmo? Where are the Muslim-American organizations? Why no denouncement of this activity? Note military courts HATE traitors. If they go to trial, they are gone FORVEVER.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/23/2003 15:50 Comments || Top||

Swastika graffiti @ Rutgers
Police are investigating a graffiti attack on several buildings on Rutgers University’s main campus in New Brunswick, including a Jewish community center and a fraternity house, as a bias crime. On Saturday morning, swastikas were found spray-painted on Rutgers Hillel. They were also painted on the porch and front door of Alpha Epsilon Pi, an historically Jewish fraternity. Three other buildings were damaged by spray paint, but no swastikas were painted on them, police said. Emmet Dennis, Rutgers’ vice president for student affairs, decried the incidents. "The despicable acts of anti-Semitic vandalism that were committed on and around the Rutgers College Avenue campus in New Brunswick this weekend were not only an attack on our students and our friends at whom they were aimed, but on the dignity and civility of the entire university community," he said.

An anonymous caller to New Brunswick police reported seeing two men defacing the buildings early Saturday, but no other information on the suspects was available. The Anti-Defamation League is offering a $2,500 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of those responsible. "For two years, Jewish students at Rutgers University have been subjected to some of the most virulent anti-Israel, anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic activities in the country," said Shai Goldstein, the group’s New Jersey regional director. "These kinds of attacks are essentially attacks on America and democracy." The vandalism came shortly after Natan Sharansky, the Israeli human rights advocate and longtime Soviet dissident, spoke at the university Thursday night.
And an idiotarian played slapstick on him.
Rutgers Hillel has scheduled a rally for Oct. 9 as "our statement to those students who sneak out in the middle of the night to deface property and terrorize the community." Jewish groups at Rutgers have strongly protested a planned pro-Palestinian conference that had been scheduled for the campus in October. Earlier this month, Rutgers canceled the sponsoring group’s reservation for use of campus facilities, saying the group had failed to provide information required by the university from sponsors of any large-scale event on campus.
Posted by: Katz || 09/23/2003 1:33:53 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6463 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Has Charlotte Kates issued a statement? After all, her organization, Palestinian Solidarity, opposes descrimination based on religion or national origin.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 09/23/2003 13:39 Comments || Top||

#2  This is pretty big at LGF. Personally, I think a 2 by 4 or baseball bat is in order here, but what do I know? I remember now - I don't like Nazis...
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 09/23/2003 18:27 Comments || Top||

Missionary Killer Gets Death
An Indian court yesterday sentenced a Hindu hard-liner to death and 12 other men to life in prison for burning to death Australian missionary Graham Staines and his two young sons in 1999. Dara Singh, an activist against conversions, was ordered to the gallows for leading the crowd that torched the station wagon in which Staines and his children were sleeping at a village in the eastern state of Orissa.
I thought Singh was a Sikh name?
Staines, a 57-year-old missionary, had worked in India since 1965 treating leprosy patients. His widow Gladys Staines has publicly forgiven the killers and continued her late husband’s charity work in Orissa. She said she had no opinion on the death sentence handed down by the court in Orissa’s capital Bhubaneswar. “But forgiveness and the consequences of the crime should not be mixed up. Other than that, I have no further comment,” she said.
"The death penalty does cut down on recidivism, though..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 15:11 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6467 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What is the Hindu verison of the 72 virgins?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/23/2003 15:49 Comments || Top||

#2  She's absolutely right: She forgiving them means that she has decided that she will bear them no resentment for what they did. Essentially, their ability to affect her life in addition to her menfolk's is at an end.
Posted by: Ptah || 09/23/2003 15:50 Comments || Top||

#3  Crazy fool: Maybe one virgin with 72 arms?

Ptah: What a great way to put that!
Posted by: SPQR 2755 || 09/23/2003 16:19 Comments || Top||

Pakistan: Hambali’s Brother Was Watched
Security agents had been watching the younger brother of Hambali, al-Qaida’s alleged top agent in South Asia, for weeks before arresting him and 16 others over the weekend.
Good idea, keep notes on who he met with, bet his phone was tapped as well.
The man, Rusman Gunawan, was being interrogated at an undisclosed location in Pakistan, Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayyat told The Associated Press. Gunawan was arrested in the southern port city of Karachi on Saturday along with 16 Islamic students from Malaysia, Indonesia and Myanmar. "Hambali’s brother was under surveillance for weeks," Hayyat said. "Perhaps he was not aware that he was being watched."
If he didn't expect to be, he's not Hambali's smarter brother...
"We are interrogating Gunawan to determine if he had any plan to harm Western interest. I think he will remain in our custody for some time," he said.
He said with a sneer while twirling his moustache.
Hayyat said the interrogation was already yielding some results, and that Pakistani authorities had picked up several more foreign Islamic students based on Gunawan’s screams statements. He would not elaborate, but a Pakistani intelligence official speaking on condition of anonymity said at least four more Indonesian students were arrested Monday in a raid in Karachi.
"I can say no more!"
That’s nice.
Pakistani intelligence officials believe Gunawan, 27, was running Jemaah Islamiyah’s branch in this Islamic nation. Many Jemaah Islamiyah leaders, including Hambali, were allegedly trained at al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan.
Who didn’t?
Authorities in Indonesia are believed to have uncovered an elaborate network of links between the two groups following the arrests of top militants. Indonesian authorities said Monday they had no charges pending against Gunawan and would not seek his extradition.
"We don’t want him, let the CIA have what’s left after the Paks are done with him."
Indonesian Vice President Hamzah Haz, who has appeared in bed with sympathetic to fellow Muslim militants, said the government would send a team of lawyers to meet with Gunawan. "I ask the Foreign Affairs Ministry to use its diplomatic channels to monitor the problem and find out the reasons behind the arrest," Hamzah said on the sidelines of a Jakarta conference on Islam and terrorism. However, Hayyat said it was a tip from Indonesia that first alerted them to Gunawan’s presence in the country and which led them to put the man under surveillance.
Theory - Pakistan is taking the hard line with foreign islamic students to stay in good favor with the U.S. in the WOT. The JI groups from the far east don’t have the pull in Pakistan that the Arab groups do, so they make good scapegoats. The local mullahs are mostly interested in Afghanistan and India, so they don’t put up much of a fuss. Discuss.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 10:32:49 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6465 views] Top|| File under:

Pakistan Jihadi arrests are an Illusion
By Syed Saleem Shahzad
Just like a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat, Pakistani President General Pervez Musharraf’s intelligence forces have contrived a feat of equal illusion with the arrest of a number of foreign students alleged to have terror links.
Ahah! Things are not as they seem!
Among those detained is 27-year-old Indonesian Gun Gun Rusman Gunawan, said to be a younger brother of Hambali, the operational chief of Southeast Asia’s Jemmah Islamiyah (JI) terror organization, who himself was arrested in Thailand in the middle of last month.
"Gun Gun" - don’t know why they focussed on him?
As a partner in the US’s global "war on terrorism", Musharraf is under constant pressure to crack down firstly on support of cross-border militancy into Indian-occupied Kashmir, and secondly to round up people with terrorist links seeking refuge within Pakistan.
and thirdly to restrain the nutcases endemic to Pakland
In both cases, his record is open to criticism, although, with some regularity, whenever the general travels abroad, and especially to the US, there is a spurt of activity on the home front. Musharraf is currently in New York for the annual session of the UN General Assembly, which he is due to address, and he has had a number of high-profile interviews and meetings in which he has touted his government’s record in the fight against terrorism.
nice timing? He should travel here more often then...
The weekend’s announcement, therefore, by the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) in Islamabad of the arrest in Karachi of 13 Malaysian, two Indonesian and two Myanmese students on suspicion of links with the JI could not have come at a better time for Musharraf. The students were mostly from two large institutions of Salafi origins in Karachi - Jamia Abu Bakar Islamic University situated in the Gulshan-e-Iqbal area, and Jamia tut Darasatul Islamyia, in University Road. The arrests were made on Saturday, and unlike in the past, news was soon leaked to the national and international press.
See? See? Now why would they do that? Wheels within wheels...
But all was not what it appeared.
Toldja so...
It transpires that Gun Gun Rusman Gunawan had in fact been arrested much earlier, some sources told Asia Times Online on September 1, and he had been studying at Jamia Abu Bakar since 1999. He was named along with the batch arrested at the weekend, though.
Truncheons and Moustachios? Hambali would be so proud
In all cases the method was the same, with the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) using the cover of the FIA, claiming that the students were wanted by their governments. As far as can be ascertained, the students’ immigration and study clearance papers (from both Pakistani and home country officials) were in order. The Indonesian government, despite the Pakistani claims, quickly lodged an official protest with Islamabad over the arrests, and denied that it had requested that the students be apprehended.
Wudn’t us!
Speaking to this correspondent, the director of Jamia tut Darasatul Islamyia, Abdul Rehman Abid, gave his islamically truthful eye witness account. "Last Saturday, several dozen policemen laid siege of the campus. Different persons in civvies [civilian clothes] entered the campus and refused any movement to the students. They asked the Jamia administration to produce a list of students. We provided them with a computer-generated copy. They marked a few names - all were Malaysian students - and all were teenaged. We produced them. The students thought that it was just a question and answer session, but the officials asked for their arrest. They said that the students were wanted in their countries of origin and would be extradited. The students had tears in their eyes, and we saw them go off with an utter feeling of helplessness.
Oh, the humanity!
Didn't even give them a chance to go for their guns...
"You please tell me, if they were criminals, why did these agencies not follow the routine course under which Interpol warrants would have been produced. If they were involved in any crime in Pakistan, why was a case not lodged against them. How can anybody be picked up without any evidence or reason and taken to an unknown destination? We contacted their embassies and they denied that they had made any extradition requests. We never went to the press to disclose the news, the intelligence agencies personally informed the press corps about this development. Generally, they avoid [disclosure]. You know and I know that this is just to make Musharraf’s visit [to the US] to look colorful, and it happens every time. We Pakistanis always expect these type of events before the arrival of any US dignitary, September 11 anniversary or the departure of a Pakistani celebrity to the US," Abdul Rehman Abid went on to say.
"Otherwise they leave us alone — every day's the same routine pursuits: PT in the morning, a few hours on the firing range, indoctrination against foreigners and Jews in the afternoon, and then in the evening maybe we stone an adultress. This really interrupts the rhythm of religious instruction..."
He said that since September 11, 2001, the Salafi schools had become a target for the intelligence agencies.
go figure!
The Salafi schools are ideologically close to Saudi Arabia and its Wahhabism, and therefore there is incest an interaction with Arabs. According to the director, intelligence sleuths visit the campus several times in a month and harass the administration, at times even soliciting bribes.
cuz they know we’re getting Soddy bucks to produce Islamorobots
It is worth noting that such Salafi schools have no connections with the Taliban, who are followers of the Hanafi school of thought, which is at odds with the Salafis.
Oh? Of course not....Bwahahahaha
Islamic schools such as Darululoom Haqqania of Akora Khattak, Binori Town Karachi, Jamia Farooqia and dozens others all over Quetta and North-West Frontier Province on the border with Afghanistan nurture the Taliban. Yet there has not been one single operation against these seminaries.
"what about them guys? you gonna do something to them too? It ain’t fair!"
And despite harassment, the weekend’s arrests were also the first to be made at a Salafi school.
first? and that gets all this fuss?
Like the rabbits conjured out of a hat, there is a sense of wonderment at these latest arrests. But one can only speculate as to the overall effectiveness of the whole exercise in the broader context of the "war on terror".
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 10:23:26 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6468 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Update from Rooters:
Pakistan arrests four more Indonesian students
KARACHI, Sept 23 (Reuters) - Four more Indonesian students suspected of having links to a regional terror network have been arrested by Pakistani security agencies in the port city of Karachi, senior officials said on Tuesday.

"We have arrested four more Indonesian students in raids at religious schools," Tasneem Noorani, secretary of the interior ministry, told Reuters by telephone from Islamabad.

The arrests were made overnight and early on Tuesday, officials said, but refused to give any other details.

Over the weekend, authorities detained 15 Southeast Asian students -- two Indonesians and 13 Malaysians -- in raids on Islamic seminaries, for suspected links with Islamic extremists.

They included Gun Gun Gunawan -- a brother of Riduan Isamuddin alias Hambali, an Islamic militant accused of masterminding bombings in Southeast Asia and of being al Qaeda's key regional contact, Noorani said.

"It is confirmed that he is Hambali's brother."

Hambali, who is in the custody of the United States, is accused of masterminding attacks in the region including bombings in Bali last October that killed more than 200 people and a car bombing at a luxury Jakarta Hotel in August that killed 12.

He was arrested on August 11 in Thailand by Thai police and U.S. agents before being flown to an undisclosed location.


Brigadier Javed Iqbal Cheema, chief of the Interior Ministry's Crisis Management Cell, said Hambali's brother was an important link in the suspected terror network.

"They are being interrogated by our security officials," he said. "They will be deported to their countries in a week to 10 days."
that will be a loooonnnngg week I bet

Intelligence officials said the fresh arrests were made on the basis of information obtained from the 15 suspects during beatings interrogations
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 10:32 Comments || Top||

#2  "It is worth noting that such Salafi schools have no connections with the Taliban, who are followers of the Hanafi school of thought, which is at odds with the Salafis "

i thought salafism accepts the hanafi school.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/23/2003 10:35 Comments || Top||

#3  pardon me, salafism accepts the hanabali school. I think its the taliban theyve got pegged wrong.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/23/2003 10:39 Comments || Top||

Building a "New Model Army" in Iraq
From the Christian Science Monitor; excerpted from a longer article:

It was dusk when a joint US-Iraqi foot patrol set out for a hostile neighborhood of Mosul. Days earlier, residents had taken paint donated to spruce up a school and used it to smear anti-American slogans on the walls.

Within a few blocks, youths started hurling rocks at the patrol. Repeatedly, Iraqi soldiers rushed at them with arms raised. But an American lieutenant called them back. "They really beat the crap out of their kids in this country, so I have to rein in these guys," says Lt. Brian Patterson of St. Louis, Mo., as a stone pings off a lamppost.

Later, Lieutenant Patterson prodded the Iraqi recruits forward. "Spread out more!" he said in a hushed voice as the squad turned down another dim street.

One of the recruits is Staff Sgt. Rakad Mijbil Rakad, who served for 17 years in the Iraqi Army and quit only in mid-April when his unit surrendered. He says he was fed up with the Iraqi Army, its stale bread, bribery, and abuse.

"I lived all my life with wars, from the [1980-88] Iran-Iraq War until now," said the Mosul native and father of seven. "It was just war, with no results," he said bitterly. "The Iraqi government destroyed the Army."

Nationwide, a total of 20,000 Iraqis like Sergeant Rakad have signed up for new military units being formed by the US-led coalition with the ultimate goal of taking over Iraq’s defense. Forces in progress include: a 30,000 to 40,000-strong New Iraqi Army (NIA) with three infantry divisions; a 25,000-man border police force; and, most urgently, a 15,000-strong militia named the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps (ICDC). One 800-soldier ICDC battalion is planned for each of Iraq’s 18 provinces to help coalition forces stabilize the country.

In northwestern Iraq, about 500 new Iraqi border guards are manning checkpoints and conducting patrols in pickup trucks along the Syrian and Iranian borders. In addition, the 101st Division has trained more than 600 Iraqis, both Arabs and Kurds, for security forces that will feed the new Army and militia.

While there is no lack of recruits, such forces require solid leadership that can help break old habits, US officials say.

Lt. Christopher Wood took charge in Mosul in May of a platoon of 30 Iraqi soldiers who he says had no concept of US military conduct. To them, detaining someone meant beating them. Weapons fire was often indiscriminate. "We’d show them how to target, and they’d say ’No, you just spray," Lieutenant Wood says.

On the other extreme, the Iraqis were "very sloppy with cleaning their weapons." On patrols, they quickly grew bored, and began talking and taking cigarette breaks.

Still, Wood learned he could not single out Iraqis for criticism as he would American soldiers. Upbraiding them provoked intense embarrassment and hurt pride. Instead, he started to make up "bedtime stories" - fictitious incidents about, say, a soldier killed while chatting during a night patrol - to drive home his points. "They caught on, and would draw the right conclusions."

Today, Wood says his platoon has gone from "a hodgepodge, rag-tag group to a fairly efficient team of soldiers." He trusts them enough to patrol with them alone. They also visit mosques incognito to gather intelligence.

Rakad, although a veteran officer, doesn’t mind taking orders from a young US lieutenant. "Americans treat their soldiers well, and they respect our religious beliefs, also," he says. Despite death threats and accusations of betrayal from Iraqi citizens, he says he will continue to cooperate with Americans and defend them if necessary.

Still, doubts linger. US soldiers question to what extent Iraqis are buying into their own future. For their part, Iraqi soldiers wonder how committed the US will be in the long run to their nation’s security.

"If it wasn’t for the American Army, Iraq would be very bad. The strong would eat the weak," says Rakad. He hopes US forces will stay one or two years.

After that, he says, "the one to take their place should be me."
Posted by: Mike || 09/23/2003 5:59:12 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6500 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I guarentee you won't see this story on any evening news.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 09/23/2003 18:10 Comments || Top||

#2  This is almost exactly the scenario that Old Patriot outlined the other day. I am quite surprised to see the groups out on patrol. Depending on the lessons learned from teh early groups, this could be accelerated and the borders manned properly.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 19:05 Comments || Top||

#3  The New Model Army, excellent. In more than one sense I hope. Cromwell was one of the first to recognize the value of and practice religious toleration. Let's see that the Iraqi parliamentarians learn the lessons of their analogues' mistakes and that the officers strive to be Washingtons and not Major-Generals.
Posted by: Mr. Davis || 09/23/2003 19:42 Comments || Top||

#4  I agree they need some Iraqi officers that won't get ideas of being the next Saddam. That's gonna be tough, it's sorta traditional to have a strongman moderated by the clergy and sone parliamentary body. Washington is indeed what they need, but that type is in real short supply.

It also depends on the eventual government taking pains to treat the army properly, and not turn them into a gang of uniformed thugs again.
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 23:47 Comments || Top||

101st Tackles Arab Tribes Helping Guerrillas
Another long DEBKA article, salt to taste, EFL:
DEBKA-Net-Weekly (September 19) first revealed that troops of the US 101st Airborne Division had embarked on a cleansing operation against the Arab nomadic tribes ranging through the Iraqi-Syrian and Iraqi-Saudi border regions, who abet and shield the influx of fighters from Syria. The operation began after US secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld wound up his Baghdad visit on September 14. This week, the sheikhs sent a delegation post haste to Damascus to demand that Bashar Assad obtain the immediate release of the paramount chief of the Anaza, Sheikh Ibrahim Hanjari, who was captured by 101st troops with his entire court.
Yeah, he’s got a lot of pull with the 101st.
In his encampment, the troops discovered a large arsenal of weapons, ammunition, landmines, rocket-propelled grenades and explosives, packed ready for shipment into Iraq, as well as dozens of Saudi suitcases crammed with millions of dollars.
Millions + munitions = Saudi.
In one hideout, US troops turned up $1.6 million in $100 bills. Eighty Saudi fighters, along with 48 armed Syrians, Yemenis, Egyptians, Pakistanis, Sudanese and Palestinians, were rounded up, together with documents and mail proving that the Anaza – from chiefs down to the lowliest Bedouin – run the pipeline smuggling Arab and Al Qaeda fighters of various nationalities through Syria into Iraq. Since the Saudi royal family traces its origins to the Anaza, the US action has touched an extremely sensitive regional chord that may well provoke broad guerrilla action and reprisals in the form of the abductions of American personnel to obtain the sheikh’s release.
Remind the Saudis abductions work both ways.
On the other hand, such kidnappings are already threatened by Iraqi guerrilla forces and their allies. Furthermore, the US authorities were shocked into action when they realized the scale of the incoming traffic in the last few weeks, estimated now in tens of thousands. From Saudi Arabia alone, US intelligence has put together a list of 15,000 armed Wahhabist fundamentalists with military training and al Qaeda terrorists, who are either in Iraq or on their way there to join the campaign against the Americans.
Hummm, we got a list of 15,000 names? Has somebody been careless about deleting his hard drive again?
As they were gathered, the names were forwarded to Riyadh with a request to detain potential guerrillas and terrorists or otherwise prevent them from reaching the Iraqi border. The Saudis have so far made no response, according to DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s sources in the Gulf.
Well, unless that request the Saudi government made a while ago asking families to report their missing sons was their way of checking the names on the list.
US troops also came up with evidence that Syrian President Bashar Assad had not acted in good faith when he promised Washington to direct the three Syrian divisions deployed along the Iraqi frontier to block the outflow of men and arms.
Tap, tap.....nope, didn’t budge.
Instead, he ordered them to afford every assistance to Hanjani’s men in speeding the traffic on its way. In view of these discoveries, 101st Airborne troops have broadened their area of operation in western Iraq to include the Iraqi city of Anah on the banks of the Tigris River between the Syrian border city of Abu Kamal, and the key Iraqi city of al Hadithah. After Anah was placed under curfew for house-to-house searches, the town was found to be the Anaza’s primary base and hideout for intruders. Anti-American gunmen and smuggled weapons were turned up in hiding places around the city, in the dense undergrowth lining both banks of the Tigris and in other places in the al-Qaim region. The operation is still under way and is destined to move south to al Hadithah.
We have never heard much about what’s been going on along the Syrian/Iraq border.
As for the threat of sanctions, the Syria Accountability Act and Lebanon Sovereignty Restoration Act – if enacted by the US Congress - could impose a virtual trade embargo on Syria. However, no legislation is necessary for the most painful measure already in motion. The American civil administration in Baghdad is withholding instructions to reactivate the Kirkuk-Banias oil pipeline which before the war carried 300,000 barrels a day of Saddam Hussein’s smuggled oil exports to Syria’s Mediterranean terminal, earning Syria $1bn per annum.
No oil for blood.
DEBKAfile’s sources report that, while disregarding the American grievances against him, the Syrian president has been bombarding Washington with demands to restore the flow of oil through the Syrian pipeline under joint American-Syrian military protection.
Guess he doesn’t understand cause & effect yet.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 2:54:18 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6467 views] Top|| File under:

#1  If this is true that long list of names was compiled by the Saudi government. I've long felt they were trying to get their troublemakers to die up North rather than fight against the House of Saud. If they secretly provide a list they get the US to turn a blind eye and remove their problem.
Posted by: Yank || 09/23/2003 15:13 Comments || Top||

#2  So blow up the pipeline. Blame it on them "damn nomads" who are sneaking around. We'll fix it... eventually. Maybe right after the border's cleaned up. Okay, Bashar? And remember, time is money...
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 15:19 Comments || Top||

#3  Oh yeah. Go ahead, start some shit. Good luck hiding in that desert. Routine F16/Warthog patrols along the borders, anybody?
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 16:00 Comments || Top||

#4  Time to bring the 4th ID home... through Damascus. It's beginning to be almost axiomatic that Syria will be the next domino to fall. I hope it's painful for Bashar. Maybe he can be sent to Najaf with a big tattoo on his forehead, "I helped kill your people" - after we cut off his hands at the elbows.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 16:51 Comments || Top||

#5  Don't blow the pipeline. I like it's emptiness as a provocation. Also it best to leave infrastructure in place for the time being. It would be fun to be an insider and know just how discomfort the empty pipeline is causing. It would also be interesting to know how much of effect the US civilian reaction to Jock Sheetrock's policies have caused?
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 18:27 Comments || Top||

Najaf ’’handed over’’ to Spanish-led force
US Marines officially handed over Tuesday control of the Iraqi southern province of Najaf to a Spanish-led contingent. Marines commander Gen. John Kelly transferred authority to Spanish General Alfredo Cardona, head of the Plus Ultra brigade of Spanish, Salvadoran and Honduran troops at a joint parade in the military headquarters in Najaf. Cardona said his men would work "body and soul" to ensure security and quality of life throughout the region. "Security is our priority in this province but we also have a mission to meet the needs of the people and rebuild their infrastructuras", he added.
Thank you, we’ll remember your help.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 11:05:27 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6474 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Remember, Spanish wine, not Frog wine! Vacations in Madrid, not Paris!
Posted by: Greg || 09/23/2003 11:37 Comments || Top||

#2  Are these the troops with the "Moor Killer" patches on their sleeves?
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 09/23/2003 11:42 Comments || Top||

#3  Yeah - I think they are - found this link on it. I love it!!
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 09/23/2003 12:01 Comments || Top||

#4  Kewl...
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 09/23/2003 12:54 Comments || Top||

#5  Spain has its share of dhimmis, mostly the residue of Stalinist elements that were preserved in alcohol at the end of the Spanish Civil War, then turned loose when Franco kicked the bucket 35 years old. While the American and British left wings are stuck in the 60s and the 50s respectively, their Spanish counterparts go all the way back to the 30s, complete with social realist posters and Stalin-era rhetoric. The latter blends seamlessly into post-modernism, oddly enough.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/23/2003 19:12 Comments || Top||

#6  Oops, should read "35 years later"
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/23/2003 19:13 Comments || Top||

Former Iraqi Vice President negotiating surrender
Negotiations for the surrender of Iraq’s former number two Izzat Ibrahim are under way and have made substantial progress, according to a Jordanian newspaper.
See, letting the defense minister surrender "with dignity" the other day is paying off.
"Contacts under way for the surrender of the Iraqi official have reached an advanced phase," Al Arab Al Yawm reported, quoting a "source close to the family" of Ibrahim. "The Iraqi vice president is demanding that his name be removed from a (United States) wanted list as well as humanitarian conditions for his detention," the report said, adding that Ibrahim suffers from heart and abdominal problems.
OK, when you surrender we’ll take your name off the list and lock you in a hospital room.
The report added that Ibrahim has lost contact with ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and is on the move in tribal areas north and west of the capital city of Baghdad.
Most likely true, Sammy would have cut links with everyone in order to stay out of sight.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 11:02:56 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6500 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "The Iraqi vice president is demanding that his name be removed from a (United States) wanted list as well as humanitarian conditions for his detention," the report said, adding that Ibrahim suffers from heart and abdominal problems.

Sounds like his heart and abdominal problems came about as a result of being placed on that wanted list.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 11:18 Comments || Top||

#2  he also has mustache problems as in "i curse your"--this is the dude who said that at the arab league meeting--a facist soupy sales
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/23/2003 14:11 Comments || Top||

#3  The top guys now realize the gig is over, which appears to be more than CNN, NYT, and BBC understand. Such a quagmire!
Posted by: john || 09/23/2003 14:28 Comments || Top||

#4  The top guys now realize the gig is over, which appears to be more than CNN, NYT, and BBC understand. Such a quagmire!
Posted by: john || 09/23/2003 14:29 Comments || Top||

#5  Weak heart, no guts?...
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 16:12 Comments || Top||

#6  Does he think we are morons? He is demanding to be taken off our most wanted list as a condition of his surrender. Why the hell would we keep him on a "wanted" list after he is in custody?
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 18:30 Comments || Top||

U.S. Airstrike Kills Three Men in Iraq , maybe.
A U.S. aircraft fired six missiles into a farm north of Fallujah on Tuesday, killing three men and wounding three others. The U.S. military said its forces were pursuing guerrillas who attacked soldiers and that it knew of only one person killed. Two young boys were among the wounded in the attack, and their father and two neighbors were killed, witnesses and neighbors said.
No kittens or baby ducks?
U.S. Spec. Nicole Thompson said soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division were attacked and the assailants ran into a building in the village of al-Sajr, 9 miles north of Fallujah. American ground troops called in air support and one guerrilla fighter was killed, she said. Fallujah is one of the most dangerous cities in the so-called ``Sunni Triangle,’’ the region north and west of Baghdad where support for Saddam Hussein runs strongest and where U.S. troops have met stiffest resistance.
Place needs some serious urban renewal, Gen. Sherman style.
At the Fallujah hospital, Abed Rasheed, 50, one of the wounded, said he was sleeping with his family on the roof of his house when he heard small arms fire. He ran downstairs just as the American aircraft raced overhead, firing what he believed were rockets. He was hospitalized with wounds in the chest and left foot. ``There never was any trouble in our village and the Americans have never been inside it,’’ said Rasheed, a semi retired non-commissioned army thug officer, from his hospital bed. After the strike, there were five craters - the biggest about three years wide — in the courtyard of the farmhouse of Ali Khalaf Mohammed.
Three years wide? That’s right, it’s the al-Guardian.
They've been making that kind of mistake for a long time, at least for the past forty feet...
A sixth missile crashed through the roof of one of the rooms in the house, creating a two-yard square hole. Mohammed, 45, was killed. The other dead men were identified by villagers as Saadi Fayad and Salem Ismail, both of them neighbors said to be in their mid-30s.
Note that they are all army age, assuming they are dead, or even exist.
Also Monday, the U.S. military denied its soldiers fired on a wedding party in Fallujah Sept. 17, killing a 14-year-old boy and wounding six others. Witnesses to the alleged incident said the soldiers opened fire, apparently believing they were under attack when guests at the wedding fired their guns in celebration. ``There was no (U.S. military) unit where this supposedly occurred,’’ military spokesman Lt. Col. George Krivo said.
If somebody in Fallujah said the sun came up this morning, I’d go outside to check.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 9:36:15 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6481 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Ah, the Gruaniad...
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 10:31 Comments || Top||

#2  Whay would these clowns all sleep on the same roof? Was it a sleepover? Were they doing their @#$% nails and playing spin the bottle?
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 18:32 Comments || Top||

#3  Ah,Mohamad.
Firing guns for celebration in a war zone.Not too bright.
Posted by: Raptor || 09/23/2003 19:06 Comments || Top||

Iraq council ’to ban Arab networks’
The US-appointed Governing Council in Iraq has decided to ban two leading Arabic news channels from the country for allegedly inciting violence.
CNN & the BBC?
Member Samir al-Sumaidy said the council had discussed "abuses by certain Arabic media, particularly al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya" and "tough and dissuasive measures" would be taken against them", French news agency AFP reported.
Oh, them.
The news channels have angered Iraqi officials in recent weeks by broadcasting pictures of masked men calling for attacks against US-led occupation forces. The US civilian administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer, must approve such a move before any action can be taken, and both networks said they had received no official notification about a ban. "We have not been advised officially of such a decision. Our office is still open, our people are still working. It’s business as usual," said al-Jazeera spokesman Jihad Ballout.
Pack your bags.
Media reports say the Governing Council voted to expel reporters from both channels for a month. The UK’s Times newspaper quoted council member Mudhar Shawkat as saying: "Inciting violence is what these channels proclaim. They show men in masks carrying guns and call them ’resistance’. They’re not resistance, they’re thugs and criminals." Mr Shawkat said the council’s attitude towards the broadcasters hardened after the attempted assassination of council member Aqila al-Hashimi at the weekend.
I can see how that might do it.
Qatar-based al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya, which is based in Dubai, have a large team of secret agents reporters in Iraq and have earned a wide following across the Arab world. If Mr Bremer endorses a ban, he risks fuelling suspicion the Governing Council is a puppet of the US-led Coalition Authority. If he overrules the move, he risks alienating America’s allies on the council.
The arab world will bitch and moan, but they will do that anyway. Back the council.
Al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya have defended themselves against charges of bias, saying they present the views of all sides.
Al-Quaeda’s side, Hamas’s side, Iran’s side, Syria’s side.....
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 8:35:16 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6468 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Haven't they been caught paying people for starting problems?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 09/23/2003 8:52 Comments || Top||

#2  If the Governing Council can get away with banning the incitement of violence in media, they might go further and ban the preaching of the Sunni triangle Mullahs.

Of course, if people really took the incitement to violence as a problem, there would have to be some hard thinking as to whether Islam itself should be banned. Hmmm. Actually that's pretty close to the actual position of the people over at faithfreedom.org.
Posted by: mhw || 09/23/2003 8:53 Comments || Top||

#3  First sign that your network may be spouting anti-US propaganda: Your spokesman's name is JIHAD!!

Man...I couldn't make this stuff up...
Posted by: mjh || 09/23/2003 9:19 Comments || Top||

#4  "Inciting violence is what these channels proclaim.
"They show men in masks carrying guns and call them

Hoo boy! That could be Sharon going on about BBC, AP, Reuters et al. Even the NYT fits this category.
It's funny when the shoe is on the other foot!
Posted by: Barry || 09/23/2003 10:03 Comments || Top||

#5  RC - on the money - they've been caught paying for demonstrations, had their cameras set up early at riot/ambush sites, etc.

Active participants, not journalism
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 10:34 Comments || Top||

#6  Are you sure they didn't also ban CNN and BBC? Talk about BIAS!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/23/2003 11:55 Comments || Top||

#7  Let's recall the incident soon after the major combat ended in which an al-Jazeera crew was hustled out of Basra and back to Kuwait for their own safety, after locals started attacking the car when they learned it was al-Jazeera. Funny, Iraqis (the majority who weren't on the payroll for the despot) regard al-Jazeera as collaborators with the ousted criminal regime. But to hear the absurd western media describe it, al-Jazeera's in hot water for doing "controversial" and "critical" reporting. Right.

About this same time, poor Tom Friedman in the NYT sneered about the need to do better PR in Iraq, because "FoxNews wasn't watched there" -- the same day, in the same paper, was a dispatch from northern Iraq about the explosion in information, satellite TV, and the excitement of Iraqis to have access. The reporter inquired about the favorite non-Arabic language news outlet for these newly liberated news consumers. Answer: FoxNews. Ouch.
Posted by: IceCold || 09/23/2003 12:32 Comments || Top||

#8  Pay no attention to Al Jiz's guy sitting in some Spanish clink for associating with terrorist groups. Just doing the research... nothing to see here. Really.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 13:50 Comments || Top||

#9  Oh, and the Al-Jazeera employee who was acting as courier between Saddam and Osama.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 09/23/2003 15:20 Comments || Top||

#10  Makes me nervous to have government censorship of media as one of the first major acts of a government we are trying to create. What we need is powerful, persuasive, popular alternatives to Al-Jiz. I think a big investment in creating U.S-friendly media outlets would pay bigger dividends over the coming decades than just about any other reconstruction project I can think of.
Posted by: sludj || 09/23/2003 18:20 Comments || Top||

#11  Don't throw out Al Jeezera. Infiltrate the sucker. Just don't let any Isalmic chaplians volunteer for the mission.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 18:34 Comments || Top||

Southeast Asia
Thai police foil Al-Qaida plot to down El Al plane
Police in Thailand three months ago arrested a man suspected of planning an attack on an El Al plane or against Israeli travelers in the country. Channel Two television, which broke news of the arrest Tuesday night, said the man is a suspected member of Al-Qaida. The suspect's nationality and identity remain undisclosed. The suspect was arrested when Thai police spotted him photographing an El Al counter at Bangkok International Airport. Investigators found in the suspect's residence relatively detailed plans for a terror attack. Apparently, his plan was to either destroy an El Al plane with an anti-aircraft missile, or to attack passengers in the airport with gunfire or explosives.
Oh, decisions, decisions!
Thai authorities passed Israel information about the investigation. In response, security at Bangkok airport has been tightened and changes have been made to minimize the risk of a missile attack, security sources say.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 19:36 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6491 views] Top|| File under:

#1  at least somebody was paying attention! Should be a little hannukah bonus in that paycheck this winter
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 19:56 Comments || Top||

#2  Heh, those are the ONLY ways to attack El Al. Conventional methods would have resulted in his certain death. :)
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 22:52 Comments || Top||

#3  ...and changes have been made to minimize the risk of a missile attack...

Bets on overlapping fields of fire for likely launch points? Step right up...
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 23:51 Comments || Top||

Kuwaiti Held at Southern Airport
Authorities have detained a man said to be a Kuwaiti national in the southern Philippines just before President Gloria Arroyo arrived in Zamboanga for an overnight visit. Zamboanga airport police official Superintendent Ybbar Padao said that the man was held on Sunday just after he disembarked a flight from Davao. Sources identified the man as Jasem Al-Hassan, 40, although they said they found documents in his possession indicating he used several aliases.
"Well, you can call me Bob, or you can call me Robert, or you can call me Jasem..."
He was said to be a Kuwaiti national who was inspecting Islamic charitable groups in the south although officials said they were still checking his credentials.
"Hi! I'm from the Islamic charities. Need anything this week?"
"How about two tons of 7.62 mm ammunition?"
"Be here Friday."
"Oh, good. Just in time for prayers!"
Immigration officials said the man was in the custody of the Philippine marines but would not say why he was being held. Kuwait Embassy personnel said they had no reports of any nationals being held.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 15:15 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6466 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Check his passport again. Hopefully Kuwait reissued their passports with a redesigned shield after they were liberated.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 19:11 Comments || Top||

Malaysia ’militants’ stay locked up
Malaysia is to keep a group of suspected Muslim militants under detention for a further two years, officials said on Tuesday. The suspects have already spent two years in custody under the country’s controversial Internal Security Act, which allows for detention without trial. Their cases came up for review on Tuesday, but Home Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi signed orders to keep them behind bars after deciding they were still a threat to national security, an official said.
I’d keep them in the jug as well.
The nine men were seized in August 2001, weeks before the 11 September attacks on America. They were arrested in connection with a botched bank raid, which led police to a little-known Islamic organisation called the Kumpulan Militan Malaysia (KMM). Subsequent investigations revealed that this group was linked to Jemaah Islamiah (JI).
Tap, tap..nope.
Last week, Pakistan arrested 13 Malaysian students as well as the brother of suspected JI operations chief Hambali, in the continuing hunt for regional extremists. All the suspected militants in custody in Malaysia are being held under the country’s Internal Security Act (ISA), which allows police to hold suspects for 60 days, after which they can be jailed without trial for periods of two years on the authority of the Home Minister.
Looks like they are taking this seriously, that’s good.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 8:49:38 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6473 views] Top|| File under:

Looks Like The "Steel- Strong" Army Has....Ummmmmm...Issues
I saw this a couple of days ago but lost it. Would ya believe that life in the People’s Republic isn’t as rosy as Rodung and KCNA says.
When Hong Kong newspapers reported last week that China had sent 150, 000 troops to its remote northeastern frontier with North Korea, they suggested Beijing wanted to deter its reclusive neighbor from nuclear buildup and keep North Korean refugees from flooding into the country. But there is another less-publicized explanation for the reported presence of three combat battalions, say Chinese police and local residents -- impoverished North Korean soldiers have gone on a crime spree, committing killings and armed robberies along the 870-mile border.
I’m shocked! Looks like they didn’t read the Songun manual or the Juche books. Kimmie will be so disappointed in them.
"The North Koreans used to come here looking for food," said Lee Myong-ja, who lives with her husband and 17-year-old son on a small orchard on the border near the town of Sanhe. "Now, they kill us for money."
Beijing denies moving 150,000 soldiers to its border, insisting Thursday that the frontier was calm and that it was working in tandem with North Korea to safeguard the area. "There’s no such thing, according to what we know," said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Kong Quan, who said soldiers assuming border-patrol duties were part of a planned administrative change. He would not say how many troops were involved but conceded that they had replaced police along the border.
Nothing to see here...
"The border forces (of both nations) have been in close contact with each other so as to jointly safeguard the stability and tranquility of the border," he said.
Everything’s just great. Now move along...
But local residents dispute the government’s description of a peaceful frontier. "There is a huge military presence in Tumen because of border security," said Xing Guomin, a local engineer. While the influx of North Korean asylum-seekers has been widely reported, little has been known until now about the growing number of crimes committed by North Korean soldiers and its effect on China’s 2 million ethnic Koreans, who are often the victims.
Last January, a North Korean border guard tried to rob residents of Banshi village a few miles from the border with an AK-47 assault rifle, before slashing the throat of a local man, who survived the attack. The guard escaped back across the border. In the same month, a 19-year-old North Korean soldier armed with an AK-47 and 120 rounds of ammunition was arrested in Jingxin village, and six North Korean soldiers were captured in the town of Chaoyangchuan in connection with 21 armed robberies. The next month, an ethnic Korean couple was robbed and stabbed to death in Laoping village, reportedly by a North Korean soldier.
When will the "Commitee Protesting the Brutality of the Peoples Army Against The Illegal North Korean Immigrants in China" be formed by the party? Well, maybe not...
One of the more brazen crimes occurred in July when four North Korean soldiers tried to rob a bank at gunpoint in Tumen, a bustling border city of 200,000. "They were caught by a passing Chinese army patrol," said Guomin, the engineer.
Wonder what happened to them? I think I could guess...
A border police official in Tumen confirmed the military buildup, which he said included the construction of five new barracks in the key border towns of Hunchun, Tumen, Kaishan, Sanhe and Baijin and coincides with another expected flood of refugees. The flow of refugees reaches its peak in the winter months, when the Tumen River freezes, and people can walk across with little difficulty.
Yeah, dad says Chosin Resevoir was lovely in the winter. Nothing he’d rather do then take a nice long walk when he was up there.
The fresh troops deployed since mid-August from the People’s Liberation Army have replaced smaller police units, which residents say have been ineffectual in stemming the influx of North Koreans fleeing famine and repression. China, which fought alongside North Korea in the 1950-53 Korean War, is Pyongyang’s closest major ally and the leading supplier of food and fuel aid to its decrepit economy. But Chinese authorities are clearly losing patience with the escalating violence.
Better start sending them flower baskets. Lots of flower baskets.
China analysts say the move also signals a stepped-up effort by Beijing -- part of its 2-year-old "Strike Hard" campaign -- to forcibly repatriate an estimated 150,000 North Korean refugees hiding out in China. According to the South Korea-based Commission to Help North Korean Refugees, at least 4,000 illegal immigrants escaping are sent home each year to face punishments ranging from jail to execution.
Not exactly Mexico, are they?
The case that prompted Beijing’s crackdown, border residents say, was a 2001 incident in which a North Korean illegal immigrant killed two Chinese police officers and a soldier in Longjing city, 25 miles from the border. "He had lived there quietly for about five years when one day two policemen came to check on his residence card," said a former neighbor. "He didn’t have one, so he was led away. It was really no big deal. They probably would have let him stay. But he thought they were going to send him back to North Korea to be jailed or worse. He stabbed both policemen to death." After an intensive manhunt, the fugitive was caught during a struggle in which a border guard, Li Zhaolin, was also stabbed to death. The killer was executed in Changchun, capital of Jilin province, the first known public execution of an immigrant North Korean in China, say Longjing authorities.
Funny, didn’t read any ranting and raving about this in that Commie rag. Guess Rodung was on vacation...
In Tumen -- a popular city with South Korean tourists who come to view North Korea -- a pink detention center spiked with razor wire and machine-gun towers houses up to 500 illegal immigrants from North Korean. "Every afternoon, Chinese police drive up to a dozen illegals over the bridge and deliver them to the North Koreans," said the owner of a souvenir shop who asked not to be named.
Sounds like a really short trip...
So what is the North Korean government doing about the problem? One answer lies along the banks of the Tumen River, where a Chinese boat driver points to a line of camouflaged foxholes.
"They are all manned by North Korean soldiers who lie in wait and shoot anyone who tries to cross," he said.
...and maybe go into business for themselves?
Xing, the Tumen engineer, works on a river-side project so close to the border that North Korean guards regularly call over to him for cigarettes. Xing says he feels sorry for them. "They’re hungry," he said.
...and apparently homicidal. I think I’d give them a butt if they asked.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 9:15:56 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6495 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Kimmie's starving his troops? Not a good move, Mr Gangsta Wannabe....
Posted by: Baba Yaga || 09/23/2003 22:43 Comments || Top||

#2  Hmmm...something's funny here. 150 thousand combat troops is a helluva' lot more than 3 combat battalions. Even assuming the Chinese battalions are manpower heavy and have 10 times the personnel of a US battalion (roughly 500 combat personnel as I recall), there're an awful lot more than 3 combat battalions in the mix there...


PS. A US Division numbers somewhere between 15-20 thousand men the last I heard.
Posted by: FOTSGreg || 09/23/2003 23:51 Comments || Top||

Home Front
U.S. conspiring to attack Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Sudan. Really.
Two years following the September 11 attacks, a retired U.S. army general and presidential aspirant, says the Bush administration has charted a scheme for a five-year war against "terrorism" that would include militarily coercing Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Sudan and Somalia.
Sounds pretty good to me. He left out Soddy Arabia and Pakland, though...
Weasely Wesley Clark, who is among ten Democrats competing for their party's nomination in next year's U.S. presidential race, says he learned of the plan from officers in the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he met them in November 2001.
And now he's talking out of school...
According to An Nahar on Monday, Clark's revelations are included in a book he authored and is soon to hit the book stores. The officers involved in the military plan, according to Clark, believe that "attacking countries is more effective than hunting individuals, organizations or charities."
I favor some of both, myself...
Clark, however, disagrees with their analysis, saying that although Tehran continues to support Hizbullah and Syria still encourages Hamas, neither group is targeting Americans.
251 dead Marines... Guess my attention span's longer than Weasely's...
His counterproposal is to establish, under the umbrella of the UN, an international force to overpower Osama bin Laden's Al-Qaeda network and to form an international tribunal for "global terrorism."
Oh, golly. I wonder who could head the tribunal? Maybe we could get the guys from the Human Rights Commission? Or the Disarmament Commission? Or maybe somebody with a turban...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 16:35 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6489 views] Top|| File under:

#1  grain of salt
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/23/2003 16:41 Comments || Top||

#2  Clark's feet must taste good - he keeps sampling them
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 16:44 Comments || Top||

#3  The really bad news here is that it reports that Clark has written another book... Terrorism, pure and simple...
Posted by: snellenr || 09/23/2003 17:01 Comments || Top||

#4  In the article Clark mentioned another 'High-Ranking Officer' that passed the information over to him. Is this like the 'Administration Official’ (Canadian Think Tank Guru) that made him connect Iraq to 9/11? Also I find it hard that ANYONE at the Pentagon is talking to Clark (given his record under Billary). I agree with the target list but it makes it sound like Clark has a spy inside DOD. When Wesley ‘The Weasel’ Clark left the service he burned a lot of bridges (front and back). He did so many end-runs on the SECDEF that he had no choice but to fire him. He might have a mole, but I doubt it’s a high ranking mole.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/23/2003 17:10 Comments || Top||

#5  guess clark doesn't remeber lebbanon when hizbula fanactics killed 250 marines.
Posted by: Dan || 09/23/2003 17:10 Comments || Top||

#6  Gentlemen, may I suggest that we not refer to General Clark as "Weasley." It is not an accurate characterization.

As those of you who have read the Harry Potter books know, the Weasley family are among the good guys. By calling Gen. Clark "Weasley," you could be taken to be either implying that the General is one of the good guys or insulting the Weasleys in the Potter books.

May I suggest a more precise term: Weasel Clark. It seems appropriate, considering he would not have launched the Iraq offensive without the approval of M. Chiraq.
Posted by: Mike || 09/23/2003 17:11 Comments || Top||

#7  Isn't making these type of stratigic plans public during wartime an act of treason? I am just wondering but it seems to me that he should not be making this type of information public if it is true.

I mean if there was such a plan (and he is not just talking out of his ass) then revealing it could put servicemen lives in danger wouldn't it?

And when was the last time the UN overpowered anyone?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/23/2003 17:12 Comments || Top||

#8  If this guy gets the Democratic nomination we could have an interesting presidential debate:

Moderator Amanpour: First to you, President Bush. Who is the second eldest daughter of the third assistant undersecretary of state for the Duchy of Liechtenstein?

Dubya: Gee, Christiane, I just don't know.

Amanpour: (Sniff, sniff) Ah-hah. I see. Now to you General Clark: What is your favorite color?

Clark: Blue! No! Yelllooooow.....
Posted by: Matt || 09/23/2003 17:36 Comments || Top||

#9  ...says he learned of the plan from officers in the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he met them in November 2001.

Bullshit. When this 4-star dink retired, the Chairman of the JCS didn't even attend his ceremony - a serious public display of disregard.
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 18:03 Comments || Top||

#10  Let's just say that Clark was briefed in November 2001 (perhaps he was on the phone with Karl Rove). Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Sudan and Somalia sound like a pretty good list to me. We didn't pick this fight, but we intend to finish it. Or doesn't the weasel of the stomach for the fight.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono || 09/23/2003 18:18 Comments || Top||

#11  Hey, glad to learn that we have such a plan! I'll be eagerly awaiting its implentation.
Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/23/2003 18:47 Comments || Top||

#12  Damn I hope he didn't talk about WP Ozark. The secret plan to sterilize Buddy.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/23/2003 18:56 Comments || Top||

#13  Wishy-Washy Clark shoots off his mouth again, and his feet take a direct hit. Does this idiotarian really believe he has what it takes to run the United States? Hell, he got FIRED from the miltiary. That's almost impossible to do, especially for one that's made it to Flag rank. If any of what he's said is true, then he deserves a quick 5.56 round to the left temple - from the right. The fact that he's the favorite of Bill and Hill ought to be enough for most Americans to distrust him. The obvious smell of heavy manure emanating from his general area should also be a clue for most intelligent people.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 19:52 Comments || Top||

#14  That's the plan? So what's the friggin' hold up?
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 20:41 Comments || Top||

#15  Well, with the Nine Ringwraiths bumbling about, one should expect the Mouth of Sauron too. I guess Sauron herself can't be too far behind.
Posted by: DaveMac || 09/23/2003 23:19 Comments || Top||

Congress Grills Bremer on Iraq Spending Plan
The chief U.S. administrator for Iraq faced skeptical questioning in Congress as he defended a plan that seeks $20 billion for civilian reconstruction in Iraq – nearly 10 times the administration’s estimate of a just a few months ago.
Officials said the $20 billion would cover an array of reconstruction-related activities, ranging from vast public-works projects to $200 million for two new prisons and $100 million for 3,500 new housing units. A children’s hospital would be built at a cost of $150 million. And $100 million is being requested to protect witnesses and their families who testify against former government officials, terrorist groups or organized-crime figures. By comparison, the U.S. in 2000 spent $28.4 million on the federal witness-protection program, while California – a state with about 15 million more residents than Iraq – spends $3 million a year on witness-protection program.
The request, which Congress appears ready to approve with few modifications, marks a massive increase in U.S. funding to rebuild Iraq. Congress earlier this year set aside $2.4 billion for rebuilding projects that was meant to last through next year.
I don’t get it. The administration has asked for $52 billion for military operations in Iraq. The current monthly cost is $3.9 billion (roughly $47 billion) and many analysts agree that the rate is too much even for Pentagon standards. Why does the administration expect to spend more money next year? Does it mean attacks against the U.S. troops will not only continue but increase its pace? Why is it necessary to spend $20 billion for reconstrction? This is like $1000 per capita - almost equal to their income per capita. Does the U.S have to build prisons, houses, hospitals for Iraq? Why so much money for witness protection? Assuming that there would be 1000 witnesses to protect, this is $100,000 per witness.

To me it looks like the administration has overstated the cost of spending on Iraq - both the military and the civilian spending - in the amount of $20-30 billion (I predict $3 billion per month on military).

The question is why?
1. They do not want to go back to Congress 2 months before the election and ask for more money (in case it is needed). 60% of the population is against it today, but they will forget it next year.
2. They expect to face bigger problems next year
3. They are using the money somewhere else (a build-up for another military operation?)
4. All of the above

Posted by: . || 09/23/2003 4:31:34 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6495 views] Top|| File under:

#1  $1000 a head to rebuild a country from the ground up - army, electric power, etc. sounds cheap. Not sure about the witness protection program - i suspect theyre thinking about more than 1000 witnesses, though.

also note complaints from the troops over there that theyre short a lot of stuff. and that CPA is said to stand for "cant provide anything".
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/23/2003 16:46 Comments || Top||

#2  Another possibility:

Although no administration official says so explicitly, the White House goal is to show substantial improvement in Iraq before next fall's re-election campaign.
Posted by: . || 09/23/2003 16:59 Comments || Top||

#3  More...

1. $290 million to hire, train and house 5000 firefighters,
2. $9 million to modernize the postal service, including establishment of ZIP codes
3. $100 million to protect - and perhaps relocate overseas - 100 witnesses and their families
4. $100 million for 500 experts to investigate crimes against humanity by former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's government
5. $99 million to build and modernize 26 jails and prisons for 8,500 inmates
6. $35 million to subsidize on-the-job training for private businesses
7. $856 million to upgrade three Iraqi airports, a seaport, rail lines and communications systems
8. $875 million to restore drained marshlands

Oh boy! Iraqis are so lucky to have a rich uncle.
Posted by: . || 09/23/2003 17:28 Comments || Top||

#4  Sounds like George Bush expects an American presence in Iraq for quite some time. That presence may indeed be military facilities - where better than in the heart of your enemy's territory? George Bush understands that the money spent there is an investment, one that will pay back more than we spend, and probably more than we ever anticipated, over the long haul.

It's going to take time to get Iraq's oilfields to full production levels, and to stabilize the country enough to sell that oil. I think what GW is doing is to make sure the money is there to use until that oil begins to get to market. I also believe he expected to get there sooner than we have, but the guerilla war there has changed the timelines.

I would much rather see $87 billion spent there than wasted on pork here in the United States, so some Massachusetts and West Virginia senators can buy votes and continue to drain the coffers for their own enjoyment.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 20:00 Comments || Top||

#5  Base building in Iraq? Sounds good to me - I'd like ones with short flying time to Tehran, Riyadh, and Damascus, thank you
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 20:42 Comments || Top||

#6  Wow, NORMAL people would say that this shows real dedication and generosity on the Part of the United States to make Iraq a success story. "." clearly isn't the generous or compassionate sort, seeing success in Iraq as spelling failure for his view of the world. Thus, he opposes this on the grounds of "it can be spent better if you listen to ME!". No, it won't.

and note, "$875 million to restore drained marshlands" Marshlands formerly occupied by Marsh Arabs, and a formerly valuable ecosystem nearly destroyed by Saddam to starve out his opponents. Not a peep of condemnation from "." or any other of the eco-hypocrites while this went on, nor a peep of praise for the allocation of this money to repair the damage.

Explain to me, ".", just WHY I should listen to a two-faced, jealous, high-school embittered loser like you?
Posted by: Ptah || 09/23/2003 22:23 Comments || Top||

#7  Tell ya what "dot"? We'll spend it all on illegal, excuse me, "undocumented" aliens here in the good old USA instead, okay? Bet that'll get you and Senator Fat Boy on board, right?
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 22:35 Comments || Top||

Anti-Bush protesters sue Secret Service
The American Civil Liberties Union (Judicial Arm of the Democratic Party) asked the federal courts Tuesday to prevent the U.S. Secret Service from keeping anti-Bush protesters far away from presidential appearances while allowing supporters to display their messages up close.
Care to guess how this will go?

The civil liberties group filed the lawsuit in federal court in Pennsylvania on behalf of four advocacy organizations that claimed that the Secret Service forced them into protest zones or other areas where they could not be seen by President Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney or be noticed by the media covering their visits.
And darn it they want to see us!

"The pattern we found was at presidential and vice presidential appearances, protesters were restricted to areas where they were out of sight, out of earshot and often out of mind," said Witold J. Walczak, legal director for the ACLU’s Greater Pittsburgh chapter.
And this is a bad thing?

"Protecting our nation’s leaders from harm is important. Protecting our nation’s leaders from dissent is unconstitutional."

Said Secret Service spokesman John Gill: "The Secret Service does not comment on pending litigation. However, we have a long-standing policy of recognizing the constitutionally-protected
right of the public to demonstrate and voice their views to their elected officials."
Translation: Go F&^* Yourself!

The ACLU complaint lists several incidents where protesters were forced to assemble blocks away from where the president or vice president was speaking, while supporters of the administration’s policy could hold their signs up in front of the building. They cited examples across the country, including Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Columbia, South Carolina; Phoenix, Arizona; Stockton, California; and St. Louis, Missouri.
I call that prudent.

The plaintiffs are the National Organization for Women; United for Peace and Justice, an anti-war group; ACORN, an advocacy organization for low and moderate-income families; and USAction, an advocacy group that supports universal health care and better public education and opposes the Iraq war and Bush’s tax cuts.
Also included are the following groups:
Supporters To Unify People Interested Dissidents S.T.U.P.I.D.
Lesbians Or Sadists Engaging Radical Statements L.O.S.E.R.S.
War Investigators Making Progress and Solidarity W.I.M.P.S.
All-knowing Nobodies Usurping the System A.N.U.S.

They all have a really really good chance of whining winning.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/23/2003 4:28:20 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6487 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Let's not forget Al Capp's favorite Students Wildly Indignant About Nearly Everything (SWINE)...
Posted by: Fred || 09/23/2003 16:44 Comments || Top||

#2  they have a constitutional right to peaceful protest. They don't have the right to make themselves heard by everyone, especially when their close proximity to adults with weapons is just begging for an incident. For their own safety they should assemble over in that corner, out of the way....and take the giant paper mache "Bush as Hitler" puppets with you, asshats
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 16:48 Comments || Top||

#3  protesters were... often out of mind," said Witold J. Walczak, legal director for the ACLU’s Greater Pittsburgh chapter.

Careful, Mr. Walczak -- that could be taken as slander...
Posted by: snellenr || 09/23/2003 17:09 Comments || Top||

#4  Curious, in this venue when a Republican administration starts impinging on individuals rights & privacy, or allows/promotes businesses to do the same it is wholly acceptable. However if a Democrat suggests doing the same then the last trumpet has sounded. Can anybody out there say "Hypocracy"
Posted by: DavidG || 09/23/2003 17:20 Comments || Top||

#5  Hypocrisy? D'oh! at least spell it correctly when you want to throw it around so loosely. These are the same rules invoked when WJC was pres, dimwit
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 17:31 Comments || Top||

#6  Visited the Old South Meeting Hall this summer with my family on vacation. As an institution the Old South Meeting Hall (where the Boston Tea Party was begun) has allowed speakers with the most contraoversial and reprehensible viewpoints to schedule speeches.

I think that is a very good thing. Nowhere in the pictures that I saw in that historic location did I see evidence that the Old South Meeting Hall was simultaneoulsy scheduled for speeches by groups that violently opposed each other.

Civil debate involves speaking, listening deciding. It is doubtfull that these protesters are interested in civil discourse. They are free to publically schedule and hold their own speeches. We are free to attend or not attend their rallies and speeches as we see fit. Most college campi are more than willing to throw unlimited resources and to provide the finest facilites to allow the radicals to speak.

I gain insight from hearing public figures speak and answer civil questions.

Should I ever want to listen to smelly insane people scream their opinions I will tune in Jerry Springer or COPS.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 18:11 Comments || Top||

#7  "Supporters To Unify People Interested Dissidents S.T.U.P.I.D.
Lesbians Or Sadists Engaging Radical Statements L.O.S.E.R.S.
War Investigators Making Progress and Solidarity W.I.M.P.S.
All-knowing Nobodies Usurping the System A.N.U.S."

"Students Wildly Indignant About Nearly Everything (SWINE)..."

All those are keepers. Don't forget Student Communists and Unified Marxists Behind All Grass-roots Statements (S.C.U.M.B.A.G.S.) Or Freedom-hating, All-protesting, Genocide-loving Students (F.A.G.S.)
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/23/2003 19:59 Comments || Top||

#8  The Secret Service has one primary mission: to protect the President. The people most likely to harbor someone that would harm the president are kept away. And this doesn't make sense because?

Shakespeare was right: "First, kill all the lawyers." Start with the whiners that the Anti-Christian Lawyers' Union.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 20:05 Comments || Top||

#9  "The ACLU complaint lists several incidents where protesters were forced to assemble blocks away from where the president or vice president was speaking, while supporters of the administration’s policy could hold their signs up in front of the building"

eh if true then the secret service rly does not have much of a chance of winning
Posted by: Dcreeper || 09/23/2003 23:34 Comments || Top||

Middle East
Undercover troops break up Tanzim party; 12 arrested
JPost Reg Req’d; Swwweeeeeet ;-) Busy Day in the M.E.
In a dramatic anti-terror operation, Border Police in an undercover unit disguised as Arabs sneaked into a cafe in Nablus where armed Tanzim fugitives were holding an operational meeting.
"Let’s take roll...wait...there’s only twelve names, but I count 22 here.....hey!"
Military sources said the Border Police overpowered the fugitives and arrested 12 of them, who turned out to be top Tanzim terrorists and a number of "ticking bombs," a euphemism for a suicide bomber.

Military sources said they had intelligence information that the fugitives were meeting late Monday at the Abu Rabha Cafe" in the Rafidiyeh neighborhood of Nablus. Most of the fugitives were from the Balata refugee camp.
Mahmoud the weasel strikes again!
No shots were fired in the arrest even though some of the fugitives were armed with pistols. Other weapons were found on the premises, military sources said.

They added that the fugitives were planning suicide attacks inside Israel and were involved in a search for bombers.
At least five of the fugitives had been involved in suicide bombings and attacks on Israelis in the past, military sources said.

On Tuesday eveing, IDF forces closed in on a house in the village of Kfar Malik in the West Bank Tuesday evening where an armed fugitive was believed to be hiding. The incident came after a day of arrests in the West Bank and the killing of a potential suicide attacker into a Gaza Strip settlement.

In the northern Gaza Strip, alert soldiers shot dead an armed Palestinian trying to sneak past an IDF outpost near the settlement of Dugit before dawn Tuesday. After opening fire on the man, soldiers discovered he was wearing a camouflage uniform and carrying a Klachnikov assault rifle, five ammunition clips and five hand grenades. He also carried a Koran indicating he was on a suicide mission.

During the night IDF troops arrested six wanted Palestinians in the refugee camp of Balata near Nablus. A seventh Palestinian was apprehended in the Arabeh village, north of Jenin.

Meanwhile in the IDF Megiddo security prison, guards discovered a 1 meter-long tunnel in one of the cells. Guards detected the short tunnel in the shower area during a routine sweep. Digging tools were found inside the hole. The army said it increased its guard following the incident.
3 feet long? LOL
Sporadic incidents of gunfire were reported in the Gaza Strip, including shots being fired at the Sufa crossing into Israel. No injuries or damage was reported and troops returned fire, the army said. Later troops discovered a 40-kilogram bomb and trip wire placed nearby. Sappers detonated the bomb, the army said.

Earlier, two other bombs were detected near the settlement of Morag and they too were detonated safely.

Meanwhile, the Coordinator of Activities in the Territories Maj.-Gen. Yusef Mishlav ordered a number of steps be taken to ease the hardships on the Palestinian civilian population. These included allowing up to 20,000 Palestinian workers and merchants to enter the country.

Mishlav’s office on Tuesday issued work permits to 10,000 laborers in the Gaza Strip and 1,000 merchants enabling them to work in Israel. Another 5,500 permits were issued to Palestinian laborers and 4,000 merchants in the West Bank. They were mainly from the cities of Bethlehem, Tulkarum, Qalkilya and Jericho.

The army said that it also allowed 2,000 Christians from Bethlehem to enter the country to participate in the Birth of Mary celebrations.

"The IDF will continue working toward easing the humanitarian situation for the Palestinian civilian population, along with the IDF’s continuing war against the terrorist organizations and their infrastructure," and army statement said.

Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 3:58:44 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6469 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Military sources said they had intelligence information that the fugitives were meeting late Monday at the Abu Rabha Cafe" I will bet anyone that the 'source' is Arafart. Trying to eliminate the opposition.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/23/2003 16:04 Comments || Top||

#2  Arafat has ties to Tanzim and Fatah and Al-Aqsa...now if it was Hamas or IJ? You'd be closer
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 16:08 Comments || Top||

#3  ...Guards detected the short tunnel in the shower area during a routine sweep. Digging tools were found inside the hole.

I just knew that showing "The Shawshank Redemption" at movie night last week would cause problems!
Posted by: Ken B. || 09/23/2003 18:55 Comments || Top||

Syria allows Palestinian groups to resume operations
Syria has allowed Palestinian groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad to resume operations in the country, despite repeated warnings from Washington not to do so. The groups were reported to have scaled down their activities during the summer after the Bush administartion had put pressure on Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in the weeks following the fall of the Iraqi leader, Saddam Hussein. American and Israeli intelligence sources have warned, however, that the groups had begun to return to their offices in Damascus, and are now fully operational again.
I never had any doubt they would be...
The sources said the Syrians were providing different levels of sponsorship and support to at least seven organizations that appear on a list released by America’s Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism in October 2001. According to an Israeli intelligence source, Hamas now has two or three offices in Damascus, led by Imad al-Alami, the chairman of a key Hamas committee. “Al-Alami co-ordinates, finances and orchestrates suicide attacks in Israel,” the source said. The Palestinian Islamic Jihad also operates an office in the city, headed by Abdallah Ramadan Shalah, who finances and commands the group’s activities.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 15:30 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6486 views] Top|| File under:

#1  an indefinite shutdown of the pipeline is in order
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 15:31 Comments || Top||

#2  If congress had any balls they would say "NO!" to Dubya's $87B for Iraqi, and say "Here's $100B instead". It's time to roll into Damascus.
Posted by: Hyper || 09/23/2003 15:57 Comments || Top||

#3  Be a shame if somethin' were to happen to the offices of Hamas and IJ in Damascus, eh? Teddible, just teddible...
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 16:06 Comments || Top||

#4  Is there some kind of mass halucination going on in Iran and Syria? Do they just not get the fact that we are deadly serious?
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 19:09 Comments || Top||

#5  Can you say "Tomahawk"? I knew you could.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 23:17 Comments || Top||

Middle East
Israel Rejects Arafat Truce Offer
Nazir Majally, Asharq Al-Awsat
Palestinian President Yasser Arafat declared a commitment to reaching a total cease-fire with Israel in a letter given to envoys of the peacemaking “Quartet”, Palestinian officials said yesterday.
"Yup. Yup. Us Paleos, we're a peaceful bunch, always lookin' for a ceasefire. We love ceasefires. Why, we musta had 50 or 60 of 'em in the past ten years, loved every one..."
But the letter cited conditions, including an international observer force to help enforce US-led peace moves, that Israel has already rejected.
"Send us American targets!"
Israeli officials swiftly dismissed Arafat’s initiative as a ploy to avoid threatened expulsion.
No buses have blown up since they said they were going to kill him, have they?
The four-month-old road map peace plan sponsored by the international Quartet has been stymied by a relapse into tit-for-tat bloodshed in recent weeks with Washington preoccupied by turmoil in occupied Iraq and a looming election campaign at home. Violence continued heedless of diplomacy by the Quartet, which consists of the European Union, United States, United Nations and Russia, with Israeli troops killing a wanted Palestinian militant in the West Bank yesterday.
In a shootout. After he barged into somebody's house...
Senior Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said that Arafat received Quartet envoys from the EU, UN and Russia in his half-demolished West Bank compound where Israeli forces have confined him for almost two years. “President Arafat handed them a letter in which he said he is committed to a total cessation of violence against Israelis anywhere, provided the Quartet intervenes to revive the road map and sends monitors to commit the two sides to implement it.”
Erekat said Arafat also reiterated his support for the road map, which calls for an end to violence and the start of reciprocal steps leading to a Palestinian state by 2005.
We could tell Yasser was committed to the road map by the elegant way he used it to blow his nose...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 15:01 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6506 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The four-month-old road map peace plan sponsored by the international Quartet has been stymied by a relapse into tit-for-tat bloodshed in recent weeks with Washington preoccupied by turmoil in occupied Iraq and a looming election campaign at home.

Somehow, I fail to see the tit-for-tat aspect when Palestinian terrorists directly target Israeli civilians while Israel's actions are confined to known terrorists. As far as I remember, the definition of tit-for-tat is to respond in kind, and quite frankly the IDF doesn't appear to be trying to indiscriminately mow down scores of Palestinian civilians.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 23:13 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Teen hospitalized; Gun-holding student shot
Police shot and critically wounded a 17-year-old boy who brought a gun to school and fired a bullet into a wall Monday. The teen was hospitalized with life-threatening wounds.
Good for the coppers. A little higher and to the left next time, though...
No one else was hurt. Police said they were trying to establish a motive for the incident, which took place in a third-floor science classroom at Lewis and Clark High School. "He was angry at everything. He was making threats about everything," said Police Chief Roger Bragdon.
Now he can be angry over his new ventilation system...
Police negotiated with the boy for about an hour and a half, then "at some point he just decided he was not going to talk anymore and got aggressive," Bragdon said. The boy pulled out the gun and officers shot him.
"Duh! I are a tough guy! Wanna see my rod?"
"No." [BANG!]
Earlier, about 2,000 students and staff were evacuated from the school after the boy entered the classroom and fired a shot from the 9mm semi-automatic into a wall. The boy ordered the teacher and at least three students to leave and sprayed the room full of retardant from fire extinguishers.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/23/2003 14:49 || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6496 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'm not a gun expert or anything but does anybody make a 9mm revolver? 9mm semi-automatic sounds redundant to me.
Posted by: Yank || 09/23/2003 15:18 Comments || Top||

#2  The boy ordered the teacher and at least three students to leave and sprayed the room full of retardant from fire extinguishers.

Hey! A retard spraying retardant! How...redundant!
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 15:30 Comments || Top||

#3  Yank, yes, you can get a 9mm revolver. They had to include the seni-auto part, cuz you know semi-autos are evil. It's in the style book.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 16:27 Comments || Top||

#4  Idiot with a pistol versus professionals with sniper rifles. Too bad they couldn't have got him in ther groin with some rubber bullets. Nothing like seeing a tough lose control of his bodily functions.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 18:16 Comments || Top||

#5  Looks like they went a little overboard on that self-esteem crap......
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 23:03 Comments || Top||

CA election ON!
By a unanimous vote!

Now the fun really begins.

All those things Grayout signed....
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/23/2003 1:22:40 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6469 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Will the Supremes get involved, or will they wait until after the election?
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 13:25 Comments || Top||

#2  My fearless prediction, the donks will fold for now. If the recall succeeds and anybody but Cruz is elected, then you'll see the lawsuits fly.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 09/23/2003 13:36 Comments || Top||

#3  Will the Supremes get involved, or will they wait until after the election?

My money is on after. I mean, how does one get "disenfranchised" in advance?

Quite frankly, I think this whole idea of trying to delay the recall on potential disenfranchisement is a pile of crap. Those punch card ballots have been in use for quite some time, and all of a sudden they're a problem now?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 13:40 Comments || Top||

#4  I suspect that all of the Supremes will be "out of the office" for the next two weeks.
Posted by: PBMcL || 09/23/2003 13:40 Comments || Top||

#5  Maybe we can have the Canadian trained Chinese "Peace Keepers" monitor the election for their first deployment.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 09/23/2003 14:00 Comments || Top||

#6  The ruling by the 3 judge panel was based on speculation that the voting machines would be inaccurate, like some in Florida. I am sure that there will be setups by operatives at the polling places to scream at 105 dB that they were dis-en-franchiz-ed, in order to blow this one away, if the outcome is not in their favor. Which means either Davis is saved, or Bustamonte gets it.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 14:04 Comments || Top||

#7  The whole problem with the ruling that this is 'similar' to Florida is simple. The people using the ballot machines aren't seniors whom IQ drops by the day.
Posted by: Charles || 09/23/2003 14:08 Comments || Top||

#8  Very unlikely the US Supreme Court would take up an appeal as this is not a federal election. The braying of the donkeys will be deafening.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 09/23/2003 14:09 Comments || Top||

#9  ..What AP said - you can bet there will be operatives at every polling station imploring people to scream 'disenfranchisement'.
You think Florida '00 was fun?.....
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 09/23/2003 14:23 Comments || Top||

#10  Hmm... the Demo's must be ahead in the polls again...

I agree with what AP said. You just know that there are going to be a lot of people stationed in every place to claim that the ballots were to complex and they did not understand them. Not to mention the 'hollywood' stars ready to give their 'expert' opinions.

On the other hand watching Martin Sheen or Hanoi Jane (or any of the other 'stars') state publically that they are too stupid to understand a ballot which has been used for decades might be worth it.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/23/2003 14:54 Comments || Top||

#11  The unspoken ACLU/Davis arguement was: How can you expect the illegal aliens to vote in October if they can't get their drivers licenses until December. You are disenfranchising millions of potential voters that way.
Posted by: Yank || 09/23/2003 15:17 Comments || Top||

#12  No way the USSC's gonna accept cert. - they caught enough hell after floridia.

And so it dies.
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 15:32 Comments || Top||

#13  ACLU's not going to take it further so mojo's right
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 15:49 Comments || Top||

#14  Mojo is on to it. The only thing that the ACLU can do now is to go after significant voter irregularities AFTER the election, if they think that it will turn things around for them.

Just another probing around with the ACLU bayonet on the soft underbelly of democracy
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 16:10 Comments || Top||

#15  I suspect Gray Davis is goin' to be gittin out the water-cooled signin' pen, just to keep up with the workload between now and October 7th...
Posted by: snellenr || 09/23/2003 17:11 Comments || Top||

Middle East
Troops surround fugitives in north Ramallah house
JPost Reg Req’d
Israel Border Police units have surrounded and are attacking a house in the village of Kafr Malak northeast of Ramallah on the West Bank. According to reports on Israel Radio, a number of wanted Palestinian fugitives may be holed up inside the house.
hopefully "a number" equals "a lot"
The IDF force arrived at the village, which is opposite the Jewish settlement of Ofra, Tuesday afternoon after receiving intelligence that Palestinian fugitives were indside the house. Troops called on the occupants of the building to come out. The force then fired light weapons and rockets at the house, and repeated their calls for the fugitives to give themselves up. The army has not yet released the names of the fugitives inside the house.
Future St. Pancake’s Saints?
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 1:14:41 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6469 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Demolish the house and send 'em to their 72 raisins.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 13:41 Comments || Top||

#2  Time for drag racing D-9s
Posted by: Shipman || 09/23/2003 13:47 Comments || Top||

#3  "Mr Dent, do you have any idea how much damage you'll do to that bulldozer if it runs over you?"
"No, how much?"
"None, actually."
(we miss ya, Mr. Adams)
Posted by: snellenr || 09/23/2003 14:06 Comments || Top||

#4  In real life my money is always with the big bad wolf. Even a house of bricks can be dozed. Collapsing joists spoil your aim from a 2nd floor perch.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 14:56 Comments || Top||

#5  "Candygram".
Posted by: Seafarious || 09/23/2003 15:08 Comments || Top||

#6  Mind if we park this in your living room?
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 15:51 Comments || Top||

#7  Imminent Domain.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/23/2003 16:06 Comments || Top||

#8  "Opening soon, another International House of Pancakes!"
Posted by: snellenr || 09/23/2003 17:18 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Total Recall: California recall to go forward
The California recall election will go on as scheduled, a full panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unanimously Tuesday in a decision that brings the Oct. 7 election closer to reality. The court concluded that halting the recall election that has already begun, would do more harm than good. In a statement issued by the court, the judges wrote that the district judge who ruled to allow the election on whether to oust Democratic Gov. Gray Davis had correctly adjudicated the case. "The district court did not abuse its discretion in concluding that plaintiffs will suffer no hardship that outweighs the stake of the state of California and its citizens in having this election go forward as planned and as required by the California Constitution," the opinion read.
Posted by: Mike || 09/23/2003 12:48:19 PM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6465 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Damn! Another loss for the 9th, the Detroit Tigers of the American Judicial System.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 12:56 Comments || Top||

#2  "The court concluded that halting the recall election that has already begun, would do more harm than good."

Interesting line of though. Where have I heard that before? Oh yea, Gore vs Bush!
Posted by: john || 09/23/2003 14:12 Comments || Top||

#3  That a state constitution was upheld in a Federal court is something of an upset in this day and age. And that it was the 9th Circus that did the upholding was a complete shocker.

That the result was 11-0 leads me to believe that the judges in the panel were trying to repair their reputation as the whackiest circuit in the federal judiciary.
Posted by: eLarson || 09/23/2003 16:54 Comments || Top||

Africa: North
Algeria captures Sahara terrorists
Preliminary report; hopefully more info later...
ALGIERS - Algerian troops have captured a group of terrorists believed to be responsible for the kidnap of 32 western tourists in the Sahara desert earlier this year, newspaper reports said Tuesday.The 50 members of the GSPC terrorist group were hiding in a mountainous region about 300 kilometres east of Algiers. The army is reported to have killed 15 of the terrorists during the operation and seized a considerable haul of weapons.
Posted by: Seafarious || 09/23/2003 11:17:43 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6464 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hang the rest.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/23/2003 11:21 Comments || Top||

#2  They'll insist that they're "Ultimate Reality Tour Guides" and probably walk away clean.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 12:46 Comments || Top||

#3  TU3031

Killing the terrorists is the wrong answer. Algeria is one of the last places in the world that an adventurous vacationer can be taken hostage by Islamic extremeists without actually being killed. The European tourist trade will suffer.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 14:20 Comments || Top||

Home Front
Probe of 2 Groups That Train Muslim Chaplains Sought
Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) yesterday renewed his request for an investigation into two institutes that train Islamic chaplains for the military in light of the Sept. 10 arrest of Army Capt. James "Yousef" Yee, an imam who ministered to detainees held at the U.S. Navy base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Usually I routinely disagree with what Shumer has to say. In this case, I'll make an exception...
Six months ago, Schumer asked the Pentagon to launch an internal review of the way the military determines the reliability of Muslim clerics in the armed services, but so far no such effort has been undertaken, officials said yesterday. The FBI and the U.S. military are sorting out which of them will take the lead in investigating Yee, who was detained in connection with a probe into possible espionage, officials said.
Sigh, another turf war. The military should investigate Yee, while the FBI should look at his external contacts.
A Chinese American who converted to Islam before joining the service as a chaplain, Yee has been held at a Navy brig in Charleston, S.C., following his arrest two weeks ago at a Navy base in Jacksonville, Fla. When he was arrested, he had documents concerning some of the 660 detainees at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp and their U.S. government interrogators, as well as sketches of facilities at the camp, officials said. A chaplain would not ordinarily have access to such documents, officials said.
No shit.
A military magistrate who reviewed Yee’s case on Sept. 15 found there was adequate evidence to justify his continued confinement, according to officials at U.S. Southern Command. Yesterday Schumer said Yee’s arrest "only underscores the need for a comprehensive investigation" into the matter. Schumer previously raised questions about two institutes that train Islamic chaplains for the military: the Leesburg-based Graduate School of Islamic and Social Sciences (GSISS); and the American Muslim Armed Forces and Veteran Affairs Council, which helped train Yee. Despite Schumer’s request, Pentagon and Army spokesmen said yesterday there is no review of the chaplain program being conducted.
Wrong answer. FBI needs to take this one, Army is too close.
GSISS was raided by federal agents in 2002 as part of a probe of a cluster of Northern Virginia companies and institutes that have alleged dealings with terrorists. The council is an affiliate of the Alexandria-based American Muslim Foundation, which is being investigated in the same probe. Officials of both groups have denied any ties to terrorists.
"Lies, all lies!"
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 11:16:31 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6469 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hope AQ hires him a high priced civilian lawyer that specializes in Civil Rights but doesn't know the UCMJ.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 12:17 Comments || Top||

#2  Chucky is just trying to score points here. Next week he will file a brief that says Capt Yee had his rights violated by the Patriot Act. Shrillary will also complain that it takes a village to train a terrorists. Of course this idiot turned terrorists because the Neo-Conservatives stole the 2000 and 2002 elections. Also Bush is the Devil! Republicans for Sharpton!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/23/2003 12:38 Comments || Top||

#3  Actually, Schumer's been pretty good on this kind of thing.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 09/23/2003 13:42 Comments || Top||

#4  AP Update 12PM PST - three more have been detained, including an Airman at Travis AFB - more coming in...rolling them up?
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 15:07 Comments || Top||

#5  yep - here's the latest more coming in
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 15:30 Comments || Top||

Middle East
Mofaz: Israel will not release Barghouti in prisoner swap
JPost Reg Req’d
Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said Tuesday that Israel does not intend to release jailed Tanzim leader Marwan Barghouti under a prsioner swap with the Hezbollah guerillah group.
That's Hebrew for "fugeddaboudit."
The defense minister said that "it appears ... that there is progress" in the talks. Referring to the possible releases of hundreds of additional Arab prisoners, Mofaz said Tuesday that "I’m not sure that they (the figures) are exact."
"we’re not sure which we’re done with yet"
"We have no intention of releasing Barghouti," Mofaz added.
"him, we’re certainly not done with"Separately, President Moshe Katsav said the country is willing "to pay any price" to secure the release of long-missing IAF navigator Ron Arad.
If this poor guy is alive he’s gotta be a mess
"Regardless of the current negotiations with Hizbullah, Israel will continue to work for the release of Ron Arad, and he will remain an issue for all Israelis until he comes home," Katsav told reporters Tuesday morning. The government has reportedly agreed to release 400 Arab prisoners, half of them Palestinians, as part of a deal with Hizbullah in exchange for the return of businessman Elhanan Tannenbaum and the bodies of three missing soldiers. Also Tuesday, Justice Minister Yosef Lapid said that it does not seem probable that Barghouti will be released in a prisoner swap deal with the Hizbullah.
He must be the bait for Arad
The details were revealed in a news agency report on Monday, as Hizbullah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah pledged that the organization would "exert its utmost efforts" to obtain information about the fate of missing IAF navigator Lt.-Col. Ron Arad, whose plane went down over Lebanon 17 years ago. A Palestinian source, close to the talks, said negotiators agreed in principle on a list of 400 Arab prisoners to be released by Israel, including more than 200 Palestinians as well as Syrians, Jordanians and Lebanese. According to a report in the Palestinian newspaper Al-Quds, the head of the Israeli negotiating team left for Berlin on Sunday and met with German mediator Ernest Uhrlau in an effort to complete the final details of the agreement. Al-Quds quoted Israeli sources as saying that negotiations are likely to be concluded in a matter of days. The report quoted a senior PA source, allegedly close to the deal, as saying that West Bank Fatah leader Barghouti tops the list of Palestinians that Hizbullah is seeking to free, although negotiations are continuing over the names. The PA source also maintained that as part of the negotiations, Hizbullah had asked Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and even Arafat’s mainstream Fatah organization to formulate lists of those detainees they would like to see released. Barghouti tops all three lists. Barghouti is increasingly seen as a possible successor to Arafat, and his popularity has been boosted by more than a year spent in jail.
I've got the tingle that Marwan's going to walk...
Nasrallah, in an interview with the Lebanese daily As-Safir, reiterated that Hizbullah has no information about Arad but would now actively seek news of him in order to obtain details about eight missing Iranian diplomats and the release of more Palestinian prisoners not included in the proposed exchange.
why is Nasrallah alive? Iranian buttboy should be dead yesterday
"We have a lot of motivation and reasons to look into Arad’s fate," he was quoted as saying. An English-language account of the interview was carried on the Jordanian Web site albawaba.com. Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger said on Monday he will raise the issue of Arad with a grandson of Iran’s late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini at an interfaith meeting soon. Metzger’s meeting is in Kazakhstan. Observers here, however, maintained that the PA has not been involved in the negotiations and that the inclusion of Barghouti in any proposed deal represents, for now at least, wishful thinking. Nasrallah said Hizbullah recently allowed a German mediator to see Tannenbaum to make sure he is alive and well and to carry a written letter from the retired IDF colonel to his relatives. In exchange, the government allowed the mediator to visit Abdel Karim Obeid and Mustafa Dirani two Lebanese leaders it snatched in the late 1980s and early 1990s in order to win the release of Arad in prison and carry letters from them to their families in Lebanon, Nasrallah was quoted as saying.
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 10:08:55 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6467 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "We learned our lesson with releasing those Fatah psychos..."
Posted by: mojo || 09/23/2003 10:38 Comments || Top||

#2  How hard would it be to implant a tracking/targeting device on these goons? Make the swap and then bombs away! Heck, probably get a few extras with the blast.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/23/2003 10:45 Comments || Top||

#3  "Barghouti is increasingly seen as a possible successor to Arafat, and his popularity has been boosted by more than a year spent in jail."

And we wonder why there is no peace in the area? Amazing!
Posted by: SamIII || 09/23/2003 11:24 Comments || Top||

Powell: PA must fight terror before settlements frozen
JPost Reg Req’d
US Secretary of State Colin Powell has said that the Palestinians need to crack down on terror groups before Israel can be expected to respond to US pressure to curb settlement growth.
wow! equal expectations?
"It is very difficult if not impossible for the prime minister [Sharon] ... in the face of activity that seems to be tolerated by the governmental authorities on the other side...to say to his people that he is yielding to pressure from the Americans or anyone else," Powell said on the televised Charlie Rose Show. Palestinians accuse Israel of not fulfilling their obligations according to the US-backed road map peace plan by expanding settlements throughout the West Bank. "They [the Israelis] will respond, in my judgment, when it can be demonstrated that the Palestinian side is doing something about the bombing, the terror," Powell said.
Pressure applied equally. IMHO though the settlements will be a long term problem for Israel. Tough to defend outside the fence - which will eventually define the borders between Israel and Palestine, they will have to be left to their own means of defense or abandoned
Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria have grown an average of three times as fast as those inside the Green Line, according to a study slated for release soon. The 2002 Statistical Abstract published by the College of Judea and Samaria in Ariel showed that the Jewish population of the West Bank has grown 144 percent in the past decade. In comparison, the growth rate of the entire country was 32%. The statistical abstract said that from the beginning of 2000 through 2002 the Jewish population in Judea and Samaria grew by 20%, while the average growth in the country was just 6.8%. The Jewish population in Judea and Samaria numbered 213,000 at the end of 2002, which represented 3.2% of the population of Israel and 4% of the state’s Jewish population.
Posted by: Frank G || 09/23/2003 9:57:55 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6471 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Demographic wise, I think the Jewish population of much of the Galilee is now less than the non Jewish population with some areas having almost no Jewish population. This is why on some of the Camp David and Taba maps Israel cedes some of the Galilee to get some of the settlement areas near Jerusalem.
Posted by: mhw || 09/23/2003 10:35 Comments || Top||

US spy planes set to irk N Korea
It doesn’t take much to irk them. EFL:
The United States military is to fly a new type of unmanned spy plane near the North Korean border. The Shadow-200 Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) will fly on Friday from an army base near the South Korean capital, Seoul, according to a US military statement. The planes, which will help monitor the Demilitarised Zone between the two Koreas, are likely to trigger an angry response from Pyongyang.
We’re looking forward to it.
The Shadow-200 UAV flights would mark the first time such unmanned aircraft had been used in South Korea, US army spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Steven Boylan said. According to an army statement, the flights were part of a planned $11bn investment in 150 programmes to "enhance US defensive capabilities (in South Korea)". Shadow spy planes are designed to track enemy movements, and were first used in US operations in Iraq. The Shadow-200 UAV, which has a wings-span of 4 metres [13 foot], carry surveillance equipment which can operate at day or night. "This system gives us a marked advantage over the enemy," said Captain Samuel Hall of the US Second Infantry Division. "With the Shadow, we now have the ability to see first, understand first and finish decisively," he told the Associated Press news agency.
They’ll be warming up a fresh batch of White Slag over the sea of fire accusing the criminal US of trying to stifle their Jung.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 8:56:57 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6469 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Why would the NKors be bothered? They always have the Juche of an Army First/Songun policy to see them through to victory!
Posted by: Spot || 09/23/2003 10:19 Comments || Top||

#2  "Blank cardboard signs and sharpie markers now in stock, aisle 5".
Posted by: Seafarious || 09/23/2003 10:25 Comments || Top||

#3  "Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of North Korea? Heh, heh, heh--the Shadow knows!"
Posted by: Jim Jackson || 09/23/2003 14:24 Comments || Top||

#4  Can they tow bannners while they're cruising around?
"Kim Jong Il Sucks Juche Dick!"
"If You Lived Here...You'd Be Eating Now!"
"Barnyard Grass! It's NOT Just For Breakfast Anymore!"
Oh, the possibilities...
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/23/2003 15:47 Comments || Top||

#5  Page to Judges: Take your seats now. The performance will be commencing soon...
Posted by: Ptah || 09/23/2003 16:06 Comments || Top||

#6  TU3031 makes a legitimate point in a humorous way. If we are not currently conducting Psyops in the vicinity of NK, we need to start immediately.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 18:38 Comments || Top||

Africa: East
Ivorian peace deal falters
Ivory Coast’s former rebels are suspending their participation in a power-sharing government formed to end the civil war. They also announced after talks in the central city of Bouake, which remains under their control, that they would suspend their participation in a disarmament programme.
"Since we didn’t get our fair share, we’ll need those guns."
The rebels joined the power-sharing government in April under a peace deal brokered by former colonial power France.
April - September, nearly a African record peace.
The rebels accuse President Laurent Gbagbo of stalling on the peace process. Hundreds were killed in the initial uprising one year ago and thousands more died in the fighting and ethnic violence which followed. The conflict split the country into a mostly Christian and animist, government-held south, and a mainly Muslim, rebel-controlled north.
Tap, tap...nope.
Posted by: Steve || 09/23/2003 8:41:29 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6481 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Another Phewrench disaster.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/23/2003 11:27 Comments || Top||

#2  The Ivory Coast, the Congo and Haiti are all still disasters. Liberians rebels are using forced labor.

Who would have thought that Rawanda would become the model for sucessful nation building.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/23/2003 14:16 Comments || Top||

"Semi-Premeditated Stroke": Iran Goes Medieval
An agent for Iran’s Intelligence Ministry was charged with murder Monday in the death of an Iranian-Canadian photojournalist from injuries she received while in custody. This appears to be a compromise clearing Iran’s government of any wrongdoing and blaming an individual agent with acting alone. However, Canada’s foreign minister has said government agents would not act without orders from above.
Which "above", is the problem here. And the compromise appears to be between Iran, and Iran.
The Tehran prosecutor’s office said a judge investigating the case charged the intelligence agent with "semi premeditated murder." There was no immediate explanation of the charge.
This is well over the line and must be dealt with harshly. Semi-premeditation, as in "near-pregnancy"? Can he plea bargain to quarter-premeditation?
Maybe he can plead semi-insanity?
Zahra Kazemi, 54, a Canadian of Iranian origin, was detained in June for taking photos outside a Tehran prison during student-led protests. After 77 hours of interrogation, she was rushed to a hospital’s intensive care unit, where she died 14 days later. Her death has intensified Iran’s fierce power struggle between President Mohammad Khatami’s reformist allies, who loosely control the Intelligence Ministry, and hard-liners who run the security agencies, judiciary and police. Each side has blamed the other for the killing.
"Wudn't me. It wuz you!"
"Nope. Wudn't me. It wuz you!"
And there probably is some real, serious scheisse going on here.
The unidentified agent was one of two ministry officials charged earlier over Kazemi’s death. But earlier this month the prosecutor’s office rejected the charges and called for further investigations. In its statement Monday, the prosecutor’s office said the second agent was acquitted.
...in a shocking courtroom drama...
"The crime is attributed to one of the (Intelligence Ministry) interrogators," it said.
...clearly the work of a lone bludgeoner...
"He was a loner. Kept to himself. Not a lot of friends, and they all had turbans..."
The statement also said the judge, Judge Esmaeili, concluded that no government body was behind the crime.
...relief to have the facts out in the open...
In Montreal, Kazemi’s son, Stephan Hachemi, said the charge was insufficient. "It’s the same thing we saw a few weeks ago. As long as the prosecutor keeps his post there is no way for a judge to conduct a proper investigation in the case." Initially, the hard-line Tehran prosecutor, Saeed Mortazavi, was quoted as saying Kazemi died of a stroke. But a presidential-appointed committee discredited this version and concluded she died of head injuries sustained while in custody.
Right, death is a symptom of both conditions, anyone can make a mistake.
Intelligence Ministry officials have denied their agents were responsible, claiming a judicial agent beat Kazemi on her head.
A "judicial agent". Why don’t WE have those? Sharia NOW!
Canadian Foreign Minister Bill Graham has accused Mortazavi of being implicated in the killing, saying agents would not act without orders from above.
Tough call. Gubmint bludgeoners walk a fine line, it’s a thankless job.
Canada has wrung its hands complained to Iran over the earlier handling of Kazemi’s case. It also threatened sanctions and withdrew its ambassador after the photojournalist’s body was buried in Iran against the wishes of Canadian authorities and her son. Hachemi said the Canadian government should intensify its protests.
Like write them on some 2000 lb. notepaper?
"One cannot rely on Iranian justice to designate the guilty," he said.
One guy gets it.
Posted by: Mark IV || 09/23/2003 1:07:37 AM || Comments || Link || E-Mail|| [6466 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Iranian Riyals (IRR)!

Semi. Uh huh. This is the classic sacrificial goat. What will be funny is the outrage of the Black Hats that Canada (or at least Graham & Hachemi) doesn't just swallow their crudely obvious ploy hook, line, and sinker. I expect a torrent of threats and such. They are truly the most disingenuous bunch of fools I've ever seen.

BTW, PP (percentage pregnancy) is what we used to call PM (project management). The "reports" that the PM's could come up with were jewels of prevarication and obfuscation. Reminds me of the 90/90 Rule of Project Management: It takes 90% of the time alotted to perform the first 90% of the project. The remaining 10% of the project will require the other 90% of the time alotted. And I am 47.5% pregnant. Uh, got any koscher dills?
Posted by: .com || 09/23/2003 4:57 Comments || Top||

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