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Predators try for Zawahiri in Pak
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Afghanistan
Al Qaeda frontline moving to Afghanistan?
EFL
HUNDREDS of foreign Islamic fighters are gathering in Afghanistan ahead of the deployment of 4,000 British troops to the country in the spring.

British intelligence sources have told The Scotsman Islamic radicals sympathetic to al-Qaeda see Afghanistan as their new frontline and are starting to shift the focus of their anti-western campaign from Iraq. Does this mean they see themselves as having lost the battle for Iraq?
The fighters, including Jordanians, Yemenis, Egyptians and Gulf Arabs, stepped up their campaign two months ago with a series of suicide bombings against NATO peacekeepers, United States troops and Afghan government leaders.

"Attacks in Afghanistan are now running at more than 500 a month - it's getting as dangerous for westerners as Iraq in some places," said a British officer involved in planning the NATO peacekeeping mission in the south-west of the country.

Particularly worrying for British troops has been a spate of battles over the past month in the area where paratroopers of 16 Air Assault Brigade are due to deploy from April on peace-keeping and anti-drug duties. US special forces teams patrolling Helmand and Uruzgan provinces called in air support on five occasions over the past three weeks. RAF Harriers based in Khandahar joined in two of these incidents, in which large groups of insurgents openly battled with US troops and allied Afghan forces.

Teams of suicide bombers are reported to be active in Kabul and several other major towns, according to British sources. Groups of insurgents regularly mount raids from mountain hideouts against US patrols and units of the Afghan army. In rural areas, insurgents are becoming increasingly proficient in the use of improvised roadside bombs, many of which are similar to those that have taken such a heavy toll on coalition forces in Iraq. Are they getting help from Iranian bomb specialists?

The foreign fighters are making common cause with remnants of the Taleban regime hiding in southern Afghanistan and with local tribesmen who resent efforts by the Kabul regime, backed by the US and Britain, to clamp down on the drugs trade. Washington's decision to pull out 4,000 troops from south-west Afghanistan, ahead of the NATO deployment, has emboldened insurgents, who claim it is the start of a complete defeat of US troops who have patrolled the country since late 2001.

British intelligence officers say the drugs trade and the growing Afghan insurgency are inextricably linked with the dramatic increases in heroin exports, allowing pro-Taleban groups to buy in supplies of weapons and fund foreign fighters.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 13:15 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "Washington's decision to pull out 4,000 troops from south-west Afghanistan, ahead of the NATO deployment, has emboldened insurgents, who claim it is the start of a complete defeat of US troops who have patrolled the country since late 2001. "

Why did we do this?

Less PR problems for AQ in Afghanistan. They migh wind up killing muslims, but they won't be Arab muslims, which helps greatly with fundraising.

Posted by: Penguin || 01/13/2006 13:49 Comments || Top||

#2  The British military establishmen used to be pretty stoic. During the Napoleonic Wars, WWI and WWII, they took their lumps and kept on swinging at their adversaries without panicking. These days, they're like the pretty co-eds in horror movies, screaming at the top of their lungs at the slightest unexpected noise or movement.
Posted by: Zhang Fei || 01/13/2006 14:02 Comments || Top||

#3  I believe the reason we are pulling US ground troops demonstrates that the islamo-cockroach problem in Afghanistan is a world problem and not a US-9/11 problem.
Posted by: anymouse || 01/13/2006 17:14 Comments || Top||

#4  I wonder how much of this is "come to beautiful Afghanistan and kill Americans!"

There is nothing quite like luring your enemy into a kill zone.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 01/13/2006 17:40 Comments || Top||

#5  It is probably a combination of the discontent among certain farmer groups, and the withering of Iraq as a viable front, that has Al-Q moving back to Afghanistan. Also, the Iraqi military and police are rapidly becoming very effective and killing the foreigners in good numbers. Plus, Afghanistan has always been a loosely-governed and loosely-policed area, which makes operations easier for Al-Q.
Posted by: Shieldwolf || 01/13/2006 22:09 Comments || Top||

#6  Shortens the ISI's supply lines.
Posted by: .com || 01/13/2006 22:15 Comments || Top||


Britain
Britain 'like the inside of a toilet', said Hamza
Abu Hamza, the Muslim preacher, was heard calling for the "blood and destruction" of non-believers at the Old Bailey yesterday and describing Britain as a country "like the inside of a toilet".

The jury at his trial on nine counts of soliciting to murder, four counts of using threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour and two further counts of possessing abusive recordings with a view to distribution and possession of a document useful to preparing terrorism heard the former imam of Finsbury Park, north London, speak for the first time in two videos made by his followers.

In the recordings, each more than two hours long, Hamza was also heard accusing the Prime Minister of killing Muslim children. The first video, called the "Holy Way to Khilafa" (Muslim nationhood), showed Hamza seated at a table with a banner which read "Al-Jihad" during a meeting in Whitechapel, east London, in 1997 or 1998.

He told the unseen audience that living in Britain was like the "inside of a toilet" and added: "We are all under the heavy boots of the kufr (unbeliever)." "This is why they talk of the Khilafa now," he added. "Some talk of it as the drug which they need to vent themselves, others they talk about it as the only solution."

Quoting the prophet Mohammed he added: "The blood and destruction is the destruction upon you kaffirs."

He said democracy was crumbling and laid out a two-stage plan to replace it with a Muslim nation. The first he said meant "bleed them from their sides, their heads, their economy, everything until they surrender." The preacher went on: "Like you imagine you have only one small knife and you have a big animal in the front of you, the size of the knife you can't slaughter him with this.

"You have to stab him here and there until he bleeds to death, until he die, then you cut his meat the way you like it or leave it for the maggots." After that he claimed: "The people who called you terrorist before, they will call you khalifas (Muslim rulers) and the scholars who used to call you khawarij (rebels against Islam) yesterday, they will write poems about you."

The second stage involved taking control of the whole world, he added. "Don't be a shield for the kufr because we will get you," he added. "Even if you are not a target and you are in the target area. If you fear them, you should fear Allah more. It's a bloody way."

Hamza told his followers they would eventually see a Muslim ruler in the White House and added: "The whole earth, it will be for Muslims, this is a promise from Allah.

"Go and fight, light and heavy, rich and poor, sick and healthy," he told his followers and identified targets as every court, interest-charging banks, video shops which sell "naked" videos and brothels.

"You have to bleed the enemy, whether you work alone, you work with a group or you work with your own family, work has to be done.

"Tease them, make them afraid, show their humiliation." Hamza added: "Anybody he sees a deficiency and an enemy of Islam, just go and kill him."

Laughing when a woman asked him whether she could join the holy war, Hamza told her to tell her children, if they were aged 10 or 12, to "go with their father for training . . . make sure he shows them videos about Jihad ideas, bring them up for Jihad."

In the second video, filmed in September 1999, Hamza described Britain as a kaffir (unbeliever) country which does not apply Shariah law and is therefore at war and accused Tony Blair of killing "many of our children". He added: "Most of them are pagans; preachers have become homosexuals; churches have become places of dancing, iniquity, business, black magic, you name it."

The case continues.
Posted by: tipper || 01/13/2006 04:06 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Captain Hook wasn't too proud to collect UK "dole" (welfare) and accept a free vehicle from the government, he being handicapped and all. And he lied about losing a limb in the Afghan conflict. He was photographed with limb intact, after that war ended. He lost same after a trip to Yemen. That government has wanted to talk to him ever since. The coddling of that animal should disgust everyone.
Posted by: CaziFarkus || 01/13/2006 4:20 Comments || Top||

#2  Nowt wrong with a bit of paganism, Hookboy. Now where'd I put that goat....
Posted by: Unotle Janter5843 || 01/13/2006 5:09 Comments || Top||

#3  Captain Hook wasn't too proud to collect UK "dole" (welfare)

To a Muslim, it's not welfare, but jizya. Our motives for handing over our wealth to the ummah are immaterial, so long as it's handed over.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 01/13/2006 6:20 Comments || Top||

#4  Jizya you say?! - We've certainly spunked a load of public cash on this hook-handed dickwad.
Posted by: Howard UK || 01/13/2006 6:49 Comments || Top||

#5  They will win too, unless the Brit's wake up.
Posted by: plainslow || 01/13/2006 6:58 Comments || Top||

#6  'like the inside of a toilet'

You Decide

Toilet #1 HOOK


Toilet # 2 Abu Bakar


Toilet #3 cleric in India


Toilet #4 Mullah *GAG*


..last but not least Gumby the mullah mouth
Posted by: Red Dog || 01/13/2006 8:58 Comments || Top||

#7  ..and the scholars who used to call you khawarij (rebels against Islam) yesterday, they will write poems about you."
The once was an iman from Finsbury Park,
whose brain was decidedly dark.
He brandished his hook
gave it a look,
and jammed it right up his A**.
Posted by: Inspector Clueso || 01/13/2006 9:08 Comments || Top||

#8  Aren't there laws about publishing pictures like those?
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 01/13/2006 9:40 Comments || Top||

#9  He told the unseen audience that living in Britain was like the "inside of a toilet" and added: "We are all under the heavy boots of the kufr (unbeliever)."

Coming from a society where defication in public streets and alleys is commonplace, his debt of knowledge of indoor plumbing is indeed impressive. I'd recommend leaving the UK at once.
Posted by: Creck Ulagum6581 || 01/13/2006 9:42 Comments || Top||

#10  And I'd say it is time for the British to flush that toilet.
Posted by: 2b || 01/13/2006 11:10 Comments || Top||

#11  So far they can "bleed" the infidels at will, cos' nobody is really trying to fight back the hard way (even the dreaded, imperialist, USA took kid's gloves in Iraq and still push the war according to the book, and Israel is still fighting back as a democracy, far from the islamoleftist blood libels).

Question is : how would (will???) the Lions of islam fare if/when the infidels would fight back *seriously*, for example by mass expulsions of muslims or WWII militarization of their society? Would they still want to fight? Would they still brag with impunity?

I've said it before, and I believe it : it's true so far they are winning, but it's only because we pretend there is no islamic agression against Us, only because we let ourselves be put into dhimmitude (this is *especially* true about Europe, but therer are some seeds in the USA too), trapped by our marxist-induced self-hatred and multiculturalism.

No wonder they see us as weak and unmanly, in our shoes, with our ressources, they would have annihilated such an impotent, delusional, hateful ennemy, and would feel good about it.
Posted by: anonymous5089 || 01/13/2006 11:14 Comments || Top||

#12  Nice angle 5089. nice pics RD Ugly fuckers
Posted by: Shistos Shistadogaloo UK || 01/13/2006 12:51 Comments || Top||

#13  Shistos: March all down south and through the Chunnel. Folks on the otherside love em!
Posted by: Besoeker || 01/13/2006 12:55 Comments || Top||

#14  What, nobody thought to ask "Dirty Harry" what his opinion on Hook-boy was?
Posted by: mojo || 01/13/2006 12:56 Comments || Top||

#15  Speaking of toilets: what would Cap'n Hook do if it was his left hand that had the hook?

"... places of dancing, iniquity, business, black magic, you name it."

He says it like it's a bad thing.
Posted by: Xbalanke || 01/13/2006 13:44 Comments || Top||

#16  Like the inside of a toilet

Posted by: Red Dog|| 2006-01-13 08:58 ||Comments Top||

More like the contents that plop into a toilet
Posted by: The Angry Fliegerabwehrkanonen || 01/13/2006 14:01 Comments || Top||

#17  Britain 'like the inside of a toilet', said Hamza

An expert opinion, I trust.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/13/2006 16:48 Comments || Top||

#18  "Britain 'like the inside of a toilet', said Hamza"

Wouldn't that make him the turd?
Posted by: Mark E. || 01/13/2006 16:52 Comments || Top||

#19  #18 "Britain 'like the inside of a toilet', said Hamza"

Wouldn't that make him the turd?
Posted by: Mark E. 2006-01-13 16:52


LOL LOL LOL!!!!
Posted by: The Angry Fliegerabwehrkanonen || 01/13/2006 17:10 Comments || Top||


Capt. Hook Trial Continues in British Court
Radical cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri urged followers to "bleed" the enemies of Islam and train their children for violence, according to videotaped sermons that were played at his trial in a London court on Thursday. The fiery preacher blamed British and American politicians for the deaths of thousands of Iraqi children and called in his sermons for the destruction of the "enemies of Allah." Al-Masri, 47, faces a maximum sentence of life in prison if convicted of inciting murder and stirring racial hatred in speeches recorded on nine video and audio tapes made for supporters.

"Imagine you have only one small knife," he said in one of the tapes, which were played for jurors at London's Central Criminal Court. "You have to stab him here and there until he bleeds to death, until he dies." The two-hour speech was delivered in late 1997 or early 1998, prosecutor David Perry said.

Al-Masri said all Muslims should train to carry out violence and said believers must monitor "targets who are enemies of Islam." He said that from the age of 10 or 12, children should be encouraged to attend mujahedeen-style training sessions to prepare them for future violent struggle. Parents should "show them videos about jihad ideas" and "bring them up for jihad," or holy war. Prosecutors say al-Masri possessed a 10-volume terrorism "manual" which advised attacking targets such as Big Ben, the Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower.
Posted by: Fred || 01/13/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Prosecutors have forgot the WTC which was attacked. "Play the video tell the jury this is what he encouraged in his sermons."

I really have not faith the UK justice system is going to do anything about this waste of skin.
Posted by: Sock Puppet O´ Doom || 01/13/2006 2:55 Comments || Top||

#2  Me neither, SPoD, me neither. Cop killers are doing less than ten years in the UK - he'll get a year tops and be out due to the time he's spent on remand.
Posted by: Howard UK || 01/13/2006 5:13 Comments || Top||


Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
Basayev's a $10,000,000 man
Chechen First Deputy Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov has offered a $10-million reward for the head of warlord Shamil Basayev. Kadyrov said in an interview with the Moskovskiye Novosti weekly published on Friday that he knows nothing of the notorious terrorist's whereabouts. "But I offer $10 million for Basayev's head," he said. "He [Basayev] stayed both in Dagestan and Kabardino-Balkaria. I have always said that eliminating Basayev is my holy duty as a Muslim, a citizen of the Russian Federation and a policeman. If I knew who is guarding him, I would find him. But he himself is a good strategist and warrior."
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:44 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Basayev interview with Kavkaz Center
Check out the photo of him with Doku Umarov at the website. This is actually the most Islamist I've heard Basayev in awhile, I guess he's given up trying to appeal to a Western audience.
he First Deputy Prime Minister of the government of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, head of the Military Committee - Majlis ul-Shura - and Military Amir of the Mujahideen of the Caucasus Abdallah Shamil Abu-Idris (AKA Shamil Basayev) has given an exclusive interview to the Kavkaz Center agency in which he touches upon the recent events in Kabardino-Balkaria, as well as the situation in the Caucasus.

Q: Moscow and the local puppet authorities are making vigorous attempts to impose their version of the events in Nalchik. In the Russian and western press all kinds of reasons are being put forward for what happened, from a Muslim rebellion to the laundering of money of "international terrorists". What were the objectives and the tasks of the assault operation in Nalchik on 13 October?

Basayev: Bismillahi-Rahmani-Rahim! (In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful!)

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds, Who made us Muslims and blessed us with Jihad on His Straight Path!

Peace and blessings to Prophet Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him), His Family, his disciples and all of those who follow him till the Judgement Day!

And then:

Alhamdulillah (Praise to God), by the mercy of Allah, the Mujahideen of the Caucasian front carried out an assault operation against the Russian occupation forces and their national-traitor stooges. The purpose of this operation was to strike at the enemy. This indeed was also partially a rebellion of the Muslims of the Kabarda-Balkarian Republic (KBR) to liberate Nalchik from the infidels and hypocrites who were driven to this by Rusnya's (derogatory term for Russia) neo-imperialist, satanic policy.

Two years ago, I was in Kabarda-Balkaria and I failed to find any mutual understanding among the majority of the Muslims of the KBR, and this spring they themselves summoned me there.

The main achievement of this operation was the conscious fulfilment by the Muslims of the KBR of their Muslim duty (fard-ayn) to the Almighty and the fulfilment of their duty to wage a holy war for their faith, freedom and honor.

Q: The Kremlin is particularly grieved by the fact that local people who, as has always been claimed, were loyal to Moscow, took part in the assault operation in the town. Many commentators are speaking in this connection about a strategy of extending the war which has been taken up by the Chechen leadership. Others claim that the extension of the war is of an objective nature and does not depend on the wishes of either Moscow or Jokhar (Grozny). To what extent are these appraisals true?

Basayev: We adopted this strategy of extending the holy war at the majlis (council) in 2002 and, Praise to God, this is being successfully implemented. We are also being helped to a large extent in this matter by the Rusnya leadership and their local puppets.

Whatever they may say verbally, and whatever labels they like to pin on us, they are showing by their own actions that this war is being waged not against the freedom of the Chechens but against all the Muslims of Rusnya. Muslims have no freedom of worship, mosques are being destroyed and shut down and Muslims are being subjected to abuse and torture because they wear beards, do not drink spirits and do not smoke. Even pregnant Muslim women are being abused and beaten because they wear shawls and dress in a modest way.

The warlike Satanists, led by the horned (Russian President Vladimir) Putin, are running a show in the Kremlin and at the helm is the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) which is being served by the staff of the FSB (Federal Security Service) and the GRU (Main Counter-Intelligence Department).

The leaders of the ROC have the same attitude to Christianity as the muftis appointed by the Kremlin have towards Islam. That is why, in the autumn, at a session of the Majlis of the Caucasian front in the town of Cherkessk, a decision was taken to recognize the ROC as an extremist organization which is at the forefront of Rusnya's colonialist imperialist policy and to ban its activity in the Caucasus until the end of the war, and to put a stop to the ROC's extremist activities.

The expansion of the war is at the moment of a subjective nature and is dependent on the wishes of Jokhar and Moscow. Rusnya has an opportunity to end the war before we cross the Volga which, incidentally, we plan to do in the summer of 2006.

Q: The question of the two sides' losses and the numbers of Mujahideen who stormed military objectives in the town is a separate one. Moscow and its local puppet authorities claim that from 70 to 90 Mujahideen were killed during the fighting in Nalchik. They put their own losses at 35 troops and police. At the same time, the losses among innocent civilians numbered 14. Nevertheless, many of the inhabitants of Nalchik are saying that the special services are trying to present dead civilians as Mujahideen. Does the Mujahideen command have any final figures for the number of losses?

Basayev: Some 217 Mujahideen took part in this operation from our side and we were unable to bring in another 150 Mujahideen who had to close the main crossroads in the center of Nalchik. We were unable to bring them into the town from the Kashkhatau direction because the roads through Khasanya and Belaya Rechka were closed after one of our groups had been discovered by the infidels and hypocrites in the morning of 13 October, and we were unable to send vehicles after them.

Our losses numbered 37 dead Mujahideen. A quarter of the Mujahideen who earlier were presumed dead turned out to be alive. Losses among the infidels and hypocrites were "one-and-a-half dead and one very slightly wounded". (According to the figures of the Caucasian front headquarters, the enemy's overall losses were over 300 dead and wounded - Kavkaz-Tsentr)

As far as innocent civilians are concerned, it is no secret that Rusnya's power-wielding structures had a specific plan to arrest the Mujahideen. In Chechnya, for example, if any of the occupation power-wielding structures had failed to arrest or kill a single Mujahideen in the course of a week, then part of their wage bonus would be deducted.

Therefore, there is nothing surprising in the fact that there were so many "dead and arrested Mujahideen" in Nalchik. That is precisely why, in my name, they declare all kinds of "flaming summers", (although I made no such statements) and then "successfully avert" them.

Of course, tactically, we suffered a defeat in this operation, because we were unable to achieve the goal we set ourselves. But, strategically, this was a great victory for us, even if all the 400 Mujahideen brought in to this operation had died.

In this connection, so that our enemies should understand this, one may quote the words of the Spartan King Leonidas which he said to his enemies in the battle of Thermopylae: "We lost the battle, but you lost the war."

God willing, the Rusists have lost this war!

Q: At first people were sceptical about the formation of the Caucasian Front. Most Russian commentators spoke about "the propaganda of the militants" and claimed that the Mujahideen did not have the strength for serious military operations. Such claims are no longer being made now. Another question is being asked in the press - what is the Caucasian Front? Is its formation not a sign of a radical change in the Mujahideen's strategy in the Caucasus? What is the vector of this strategy?

Basayev: Virtually all those who were not properly acquainted with the real situation were distrustful of the formation of the Caucasian front in May of this year. Some of our "well-wishers" were saying that Sheikh Abdul-Khalim was infatuated by a virtual war. Even (Radio Liberty journalist Andrey) Babitskiy grinned in disbelief when I told him that I had held a council meeting in Nalchik where the Caucasian Front had been formed and on the way home I nearly drowned crossing the Terek.

But we are fighting not in order to prove or show anything to anyone. We are working, through God's mercy, turning our plans into reality and not being distracted by the squealing of pigs.

The Caucasian Front is a structural unit of the CRI armed forces, and its formation is not the sign of a radical change in the Mujahideen's strategy in the Caucasus. It is simply the next step in extending the Jihad.

The recent decision by the Majlis of the Caucasian Front to destroy the colonists who are cooperating with Rusnya's occupation structures throughout the Caucasus may be termed a change in strategy.

But as far as a radical change of strategy is concerned, in this respect the Muslims of the Caucasus are feeling a stronger need to pool together their efforts to liberate themselves from Rusnya's colonialist imperial oppression. And more and more Muslims are raising the question of the proclamation of a single Imam of the whole Caucasus, although already today Sheikh Abdul-Khalim is virtually the imam of the Caucasus, because the Mujahideen of the whole Caucasus have sworn an oath of loyalty to him. We are planning to carry out in spring 2006 a great unifying Majlis on this question, and also on the question of forming a Shura of Alims of the Caucasus.

Q: What is the military situation in Chechnya?

Basayev: I left Nalchik on the night of 15 October and then visited Ossetia, Ingushetia and Chechnya. I met with the amirs of most of the sectors, visited many Mujahideen bases and was satisfied with their preparations for winter. I spent a week in the mountains with Dokku Umarov, had a pleasant stay with him, and also held a council of the southwest front with the participation of amirs of the Ingush and Ossetian sectors of the Caucasian Front whom I took with me when I visited Dokku. At the council we discussed certain matters regarding organization.

After that I visited a number of sectors of the eastern front and met my naib, Amir Nurdin, and the amirs of a number of sectors. By God's mercy, the situation is good and all units have made a successful transition to the winter period.

Then I visited our Supreme Amir Sheikh Abdul-Khalim and reported to him on the situation throughout the Caucasus. We spent a week discussing and agreeing on our plans of action for 2006.

We also decided not to focus special attention on the pig show called "parliamentary elections in Chechnya" because, as our Mujahideen say, "pigs may grunt - the Jihad goes on".

I was in Jokhar at the time of this pig show and I saw the so-called voting on the deserted streets of the city.

In Kokhar, the city center had been closed off because, they said, (Russian Interior Minister Rashid) Nurgaliyev was presenting awards to the hypocrites "for successfully staging" this show.

The Rusists are allocating huge sums and materials to encourage and keep the hypocrites on a lead, pinning all kinds of trinkets on their chests in the form of crosses called "Order of courage". And the infidels are pleased with their medals and hypocritically say: "This is not a cross, but a plus sign."

In Nalchik we could see clearly for the first time how weak and vulnerable Rusnya is when we noticed how the Rusists were hurrying to bring troops into the town from all over Rusnya, and still they do not have enough of them.

Putin's feigned toughness may be explained by Rusnya's weakness and its fear of the Mujahideen, and this also explains the cruelty and outrages being committed by the Rusists and their stooges in the Caucasus.

But whatever they do, it will all be in vain, God willing! Everywhere they go, the Mujahideen are successfully crushing the enemy and we will continue to destroy them until full victory.

The Jihad is expanding and the only difficulty we are experiencing now is with funding and media coverage of our Jihad. But God willing we will solve these issues by the spring.

And may Allah help us in His straight path! Allahu Akbar!
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:39 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Fighting continuing in Dagestan
Security forces are reported to be fighting a group of armed militants in Russia's restive southern republic of Daghestan. Russian media reported that security forces blocked a group of several armed militants in the mountainous Sergokala region. One policeman was reported injured in the fighting. Earlier this month, up to five militants were reported killed in several days of fighting with security forces in another mountainous district, Untsukul, of Daghestan. Also today, the regional Interior Ministry said security forces captured a suspected militant in the Khasavyurt region wanted for participating in attacks on federal forces in neighboring Chechnya in 2002.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:37 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Europe
Osamanauts planned to blow up cathedral, underground station, police building
Islamic terrorists planned to blow up a cathedral, two underground stations and a police building in northern Italy, a court in Milan heard Thursday.

Zouaoui Choki, a Tunisian supergrass, told judges he was part of a sleeper terrorist cell charged with collecting funds and recruiting would-be suicide bombers. But the group was also planning an attack, which should have been carried out in 2002.

Choki claimed his accomplices planned to blow up Cremona's main cathedral using a green Renault 14 car packed with C4 plastic explosive obtained in Florence. They also planned to carry an attack on two crowded underground stations in Milan and a police building in the same city.

The Duomo di Cremona was chosen as a "symbol of Christianity" and because its central location meant it was "very crowded, particularly in the evening", Chokri was quoted by the Ansa news agency as saying.

The suspect was giving evidence in a trial involving six alleged Islamic terrorists.

The trial stems from an investigation that has already led to the conviction of two people on charges of international terrorism.

Dozens of suspects have been arrested in Italy on charges of international terrorism in recent years. All but two of them were eventually released by police or acquitted in court for lack of evidence.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:49 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Cremona cathedral is an interesting choice of target. Why not the one in Florence, or in Milan? Maybe they are capable of reasoning that damaging these would provoke too much outrage, particularly among left-thinking people.
I've said before on here that the Mole Antonelliana in Turin, a former synagog, is a very likely target, and the Olympics are coming to town very soon.
Posted by: Jake-the-Peg || 01/13/2006 11:28 Comments || Top||

#2  What is a 'supergrass?'

Posted by: Chinter Flarong9283 || 01/13/2006 12:03 Comments || Top||

#3  from RB archives 11-15-2005:
Supergrass = paramilitary informer - from Northern Ireland
Posted by: Frank G || 01/13/2006 12:18 Comments || Top||

#4  #2. "Supergrass" = leading mexican export after oil...
Posted by: borgboy || 01/13/2006 13:05 Comments || Top||

#5  I thought borgboy's kind of supergrass is actually being grown under lights in secret rooms in American basements? I've read that current varieties of marijuana have significantly (orders of magnitude) higher levels of THC than did that smoked by Baby Boom hippies back in the day.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 14:14 Comments || Top||

#6  The Mole Antonelliana was never actually used as a synagogue. Antonelli was told by the rabbi "we want a building where we can go and pray to God; we don't actually need to go and visit Him."
Posted by: Sholuper Angaper8517 || 01/13/2006 15:21 Comments || Top||

#7  The Mole Antonelliana is now a film museum. No real symbolism in blowing up that.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 17:05 Comments || Top||


Abu Atiya planned to hit France with 2 SAMs supplied by Ruslan Gelayev
Islamist radicals on trial for terrorist plotting in France possessed two Russian surface-to-air missiles, one of them confessed. Abu Atiya told French antiterrorist judges that his radical group had acquired the Russian arms to use in terrorist strikes in France, Le Figaro newspaper reported Friday. The newspaper cited a French prosecutor's summary of the dossier as its source.

The confession will reportedly be used as a basis for trials targeting 29 suspected radicals slated for next spring. French prosecutors say the missiles were furnished by Chechen guerrilla Rouslan Guelaiev, who was killed in 2004. The missiles were intended to be used to strike civilian planes in France, the newspaper said.

They were transported by truck via Turkey. But all traces of the missiles disappeared after that, Le Figaro reported.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:36 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1 
"Abu Atiya told French antiterrorist judges that his radical group had acquired the Russian arms to use in terrorist strikes in France, Le Figaro newspaper reported Friday."


"...to use in terrorist strikes in France ..."

We should only live in such a perfect world!
Posted by: The Angry Fliegerabwehrkanonen || 01/13/2006 13:21 Comments || Top||

#2  all traces of the missiles disappeared.

I'm very glad to hear that yet more AQ hard boyz have been arrested, but that bit concerns me.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 14:16 Comments || Top||


Spanish al-Qaeda leader helped 3 3/11 suspects flee the country
Spain said yesterday that it had arrested a Moroccan man who police say helped three key suspects in the 2004 Madrid train bombings flee the country.

The Interior Ministry identified the man as Omar Nakhcha, 23, and said he helped Mohamed Afalah, Mohamed Belhadj, and Daouh Ouhnane escape from Spain after the March 11, 2004, Madrid train bombings, which killed 191 people.

Nakhcha, who authorities believe was in Belgium at the time, arranged for their passage to Iraq via Syria, the ministry said.

Spanish authorities believe Afalah died in a suicide attack in Iraq in May 2005, and a government source said it was likely the other two also joined the insurgency against the Iraqi government and the US-led forces supporting it.

''The other two arrived in Iraq, but we don't know where they are now," the source said.

Nakhcha's arrest and that of 20 people earlier this week point to growing evidence that Iraqi militants recruited fighters in European countries to join the insurgency in Iraq.

French officials said last year that at least five young men from a single Paris district had already died fighting in Iraq, one of them in a suicide attack.

A 38-year-old Belgian woman blew herself up near Baghdad in November in what was believed to be the first suicide attack in Iraq by a European woman.

The Interior Ministry said Nakhcha, who was arrested while walking down a street in the northeastern region of Catalonia, led two militant cells that sent fighters to Iraq. Police on Tuesday arrested 15 Moroccans, three Spaniards, one Turk, and an Algerian accused of being members of the cells. But Nakhcha's most intriguing suspected link is to the March 11 bombings.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:23 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Great White North
Ressam accomplice to be deported from Canada
An Algerian terrorist suspect has been deported from Vancouver after spending more than four years in jail. Samir Ait Mohamed was accused of being an associate of "Millennium bomber" Ahmed Ressam.

Ressam was last year sentenced to 22 years in a U.S. jail for plotting to blow up Los Angeles International Airport at the turn of the millennium.

Mohamed was picked up in Vancouver in July 2001 as he tried to cross the border into the United States. Canadian officials alleged Mohamed and Ressam planned to bomb the largely Jewish Montreal neighbourhood of Outremont.

In the years of working out a plea bargain, Ressam, originally from Algeria, squealed like a Nancy-boy provided information on al Qaeda training camps and networks to U.S. authorities. Ressam told U.S. prosecutors that Mohamed had discussed armed jihads and said he had planned to bomb Outremont. Ressam said Mohamed had given him a gun, as well as a fake credit card to purchase parts to make the bomb to blow up the airport in L.A.

The United States tried to extradite Mohamed, but their case fell apart when Ressam backed out of a promise to testify against him. Extradition proceedings were dropped in August.

Mohamed tried to gain refugee status in Canada, saying he would be killed if he was sent home. However, officials from the Canada Border Services Agency refused on the grounds that he was a danger to the public. Mohamed was detained at a Vancouver remand centre for more than four years without charge and recently dropped his bid to fight the deportation order.

He was deported Wednesday from Vancouver to an undisclosed location. It's believed he likely went back to his native Algeria. Amnesty International has expressed concern over his deportation because of Algeria's poor record on human rights.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:21 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


India-Pakistan
Breaking News: Zawahiri possibly dead (updated 8 pm CST)
ABCNews is reporting a strike in Pakistan by Pak US military may have killed Zawahiri.
Off to look for confirmation...
Citing Pak sources, don't know how reliable they are:
Today, according to Pakistani military sources, U.S. aircraft attacked a compound known to be frequented by high level al Qaeda operatives. Pakistani officials tell ABC News that al Qaeda leader Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's top lieutenant, may have been among them. U.S. intelligence for the last few days indicated that Zawahiri might be in the location or about to arrive, although there is still no confirmation from U.S. officials that he was among the victims. The attack took place early this morning Pakistan time in a small village a few miles from the border with Afghanistan. Villagers described seeing an unmanned plane circling the area for the last few days and then bombs falling in the early morning darkness.

Eighteen people were killed, according to the villagers who said women and children were among the fatalities. But Pakistani officials tell ABC News that five of those killed were high-level al Qaeda figures, and their bodies are now undergoing forensic tests for positive identification.
"Paging Dr. Quincy, we've got some deaders here."
Officials say Zawahiri was known to have used safe houses in this area last winter and was believed to be in the area again this winter. Zawahiri, who appeared just last week in a new videotaped message, had increasingly been taking the operational reins of al Qaeda, and is thought by U.S. officials to be the current true mastermind of the terrorist group.

Pakistani officials tell ABC News that the bodies of the five suspected al Qaeda figures will be recovered at first light in Pakistan, but it will still take a day or two for any kind of positive identification. U.S. officials in Washington did not provide a comment.
In the previous paragraph, they were already testing the dearly departed. This para sez they haven't even picked up the bodies yet. Sigh.
Update from MS-NBC:
U.S. officials told NBC News on Friday that American airstrikes in Pakistan overnight Thursday were aimed at the No. 2 man in the al-Qaida terror organization — Ayman al-Zawahri. One official said intelligence indicated a strong possibility that Zawahri was in the Pakistani village at the time of the airstrike, but there is no confirmation that he was killed.

Pakistani officials say U.S. aircraft, apparently CIA Predator drones, fired as many as 10 missiles at the residential compound. Reports indicate as many as 30 villagers, including some women and children, were killed. The attack came in the Bajur region of Northwest Pakistan, along the Afghanistan border.

While some remains were reportedly recovered from the site of the attack, there was still no confirmation Friday night that Zawahri was among the dead. An intelligence official told NBC that it does have a sample of Zawahri's DNA. “Anyone who tells you there is clarity on whether he [Zawahri] was killed ... do not take what they are saying as gospel,” a senior U.S. official said.
No fat lady til we get a head and some DNA.
Posted by: Seafarious || 01/13/2006 18:29 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  kewl.
Posted by: 2b || 01/13/2006 18:43 Comments || Top||

#2  Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Posted by: Anonymoose || 01/13/2006 18:44 Comments || Top||

#3  According to ABC News:

Today, according to Pakistani military sources, U.S. aircraft attacked a compound known to be frequented by high level al Qaeda operatives.

Maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention, but I don't recall Pakistan giving us permission to launch strikes within their borders?
Posted by: BH || 01/13/2006 18:48 Comments || Top||

#4  76 ... trombones and a big parade!
Posted by: Hupomoger Clans9827 || 01/13/2006 18:49 Comments || Top||

#5  US has been striking inside Pakistan for sometime now, that's how we got Haitham al-Yemeni and Abu Hamza Rabia. The info is sourced to the ISI, however, which means that we have to apply the salt shaker until we get further confirmation. Ayman's been dead before, so we wait till we have a body to be sure.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 19:00 Comments || Top||

#6  (OK, so it's become the standard gag...)

And not just the host body; the symbiote as well.
Posted by: Phil || 01/13/2006 19:10 Comments || Top||

#7  I'd actually prefer to see him in golden chains, behind GWB's chariot, or beneath Selma Hayak's feet, like a dog
Posted by: EPAMINONDAS || 01/13/2006 19:38 Comments || Top||

#8  hope they put the hellfire right on that little forehead mark he has had
Posted by: Frank G || 01/13/2006 19:42 Comments || Top||

#9  I'd actually prefer to see him... beneath Selma Hayak's feet, like a dog

I've often wished to see myself there as well.
Posted by: jpal || 01/13/2006 19:57 Comments || Top||

#10  Show me the teeth, sorry...dna would do! I always figured "W" would get his man whether he was surrounded by one or a thousand.
Posted by: smn || 01/13/2006 20:02 Comments || Top||

#11  MOSCOW (AFX) - Ayman al-Zawahiri, considered Osama bin Laden's top aide, has been killed in Afghanistan, Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency reported, citing informed sources.
In a report from Islamabad, the agency cited sources who said al-Zawahiri was not killed in fighting but in a special operation carried out by unidentified individuals.
It did not give the date of his death.
Zawahiri, an Egyptian physician and a leader of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, was said to be the number two in bin Laden's al-Qaeda network and its chief financier.
He is said to be bin Laden's mentor and one of the chief organisers of the Sept 11 terror attacks on New York and Washington.
The US has offered a 5 mln usd reward for information leading to his capture.
Posted by: john || 01/13/2006 20:11 Comments || Top||

#12  9 I'd actually prefer to see him... beneath Selma Hayak's feet, like a dog

I've often wished to see myself there as well.


Been watching Tarantino's From Dusk till Dawn?

Tarantino is such a perv. An entire movie created for one scene in which he licks whiskey running off Salma's toes.

Posted by: john || 01/13/2006 20:14 Comments || Top||

#13  You mean there are people who can watch Tarantino's movies all the way through?
Posted by: Phil || 01/13/2006 20:23 Comments || Top||

#14  Noticing that abc has this as "among the victims"
Z would be considered a victim?
Posted by: Inspector Clueso || 01/13/2006 20:37 Comments || Top||

#15  Eighteen people were killed, according to the villagers who said women and children were among the fatalities.

Any baby ducks or fluffy bunnies, or was this another wedding party?
Posted by: xbalanke || 01/13/2006 20:45 Comments || Top||

#16  From the CNN article:


"Just last week, the Arabic-language news network, Al-Jazeera, aired a videotape in which the al Qaeda operative called on President Bush to concede defeat in Iraq."

That'll teach you to run your mouth.....




http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/13/alqaeda.strike/index.html
Posted by: Cheth Glereper2842 || 01/13/2006 20:53 Comments || Top||

#17  24 hour rule...
Posted by: Sock Puppet O´ Doom || 01/13/2006 21:16 Comments || Top||

#18  Fox News web site is reporting the report. They say the Army is officially denying any attack, but an "unnamed Army official" is confirming a strike on a target.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181584,00.html
Posted by: Scooter McGruder || 01/13/2006 21:16 Comments || Top||

#19  We too officially deny any attack.
Posted by: Halliburton, UFO Div. || 01/13/2006 21:32 Comments || Top||

#20  Though I'm sorely tempted to ululate, I'm with SPo'D. I wanna see a wooden stake driven through that empty heart cavity and DNA confirmation.

EPAMINONDAS - Lol, pretty crafty distraction there bringin up Selma. Your site indicates yet another (like myself) ex-Dhimmidonk (or nearly so?) who prefers Freedom to Tranzi / Dhimmi idiocy? Is this correct?

If so, join the multitudes who see the current malefactors running the Dhimmidonks for what they are - anti-American socialista Moonbats. And welcome to the 'Burg, heh.

If not, well - why not? Lol. There's no hope until they're thrashed into oblivion and shattered into a gazillion pieces. When someone who's got more to offer than wet-fingered / playing to our base (morons) idiocy steps forward and begins to put the pieces worth having back together, then we may return to a rational 2-party Nation. Until then, well, they deserve their fate.

Selma. Lol. Purdy good, heh.

As for Zawahiri, burn you murderous bitch, burn.
Posted by: .com || 01/13/2006 21:38 Comments || Top||

#21  Burn, cockroah...BURN
Posted by: anymouse || 01/13/2006 22:10 Comments || Top||

#22  I think we might have got him. The CNN reporters are moping like there was a death in the family.

I wonder if Zarqawi dropped a nickel on him.
Posted by: Matt || 01/13/2006 22:49 Comments || Top||

#23  Have a good time in hell asshole :)
Posted by: JerseyMike || 01/13/2006 22:49 Comments || Top||

#24  I wonder if Zarqawi dropped a nickel on him.

Whether he did or didn't, we should be spreading the meme that he did. Get 'em all looking nervously at each other, wondering who's going to dime who next.
Posted by: Mike || 01/13/2006 22:55 Comments || Top||

#25  I'd like the corpulent viking lady diva, pretty please, if Ayeman is toed up, rather than that accordeon girl.
Posted by: twobyfour || 01/13/2006 23:03 Comments || Top||

#26  I'd rather see the striped-over road kill possum
Posted by: Frank G || 01/13/2006 23:25 Comments || Top||

#27  The accordion lady shows up to entertain us while we await the good news.
Posted by: Seafarious || 01/13/2006 23:34 Comments || Top||

#28  Fred, as always, you make the most sense! ;-)
Posted by: twobyfour || 01/13/2006 23:38 Comments || Top||


Pakistan claims US missiles kill 18 in Waziristan
A Pakistani security official and residents of a border region said US aircraft from Afghanistan killed 18 people, including women and children, when they fired missiles at pro-Taliban Islamists early roday.

Pakistani military spokesman Major-General Shaukat Sultan said up to 14 people had been killed in several blasts in the Bajaur tribal region but said he did not know the cause.

A US military spokesman in Afghanistan, Lieutenant-Colonel Jerry O'Hara, said there were no reports of US forces operating in the area.

The blasts came days after Pakistan, a key ally in the US-led war on terrorism, lodged a strong protest with US-led forces in Afghanistan, saying cross-border firing in the nearby Waziristan area last weekend killed eight people.

Residents of Bajaur, opposite Afghanistan's insurgent-troubled Kunar province, said the explosions were caused by firing from unidentified aircraft on the village of Damadola at about 3 a.m.

The missiles destroyed houses of three tribesmen. Five women and five children were among 18 dead, while five people were hurt, journalist Anwar Ullah said after visiting the scene.

Those killed included 13 members of the family of one tribesman, Bakhpoor Khan, he said.

''It appears the Americans suspected some foreigners or wanted people were hiding in these houses. But there have never been foreigners in this area before.''

A Pakistani intelligence official said four US aircraft had intruded into Pakistani airspace and fired four missiles. Another intelligence official said Damadola has been a stronghold of Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (Movement for the Implementation of Mohammad's Sharia Law), a pro-Taliban group banned by Pakistan in January, 2002.

He said members of the group might have been involved in attacks on US-led forces in Afghanistan and the missile strikes might have been launched in retaliation.

The deputy chief minister for the North West Frontier Province, adjoining Bajaur, denounced the ''unprovoked'' attack and demanded the government take up the issue with the United States.

''It was American aircraft -- who could dare do that except them?'' said Mohammad Siraj ul-Haq, from the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal, an opposition Islamist alliance that rules NWFP and opposes the US presence in Afghanistan.

''It is unbearable ... I have asked my people to stay peaceful,'' he said from Dir, about 22 km from Damadola, itself 200 km northwest of Islamabad.

''It shows a failure of foreign policy.'' Nearby Waziristan has been the scene of clashes between security forces and al Qaeda militants for more than two years, but there have been no previous reports of fighting in Bajaur.

In separate violence, suspected separatists in the troubled southwestern province of Baluchistan fired up to 10 rockets into an army camp east of the provincial capital, Quetta, late on Thursday, killing three soldiers, a provincial official said.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:19 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Pakistani military spokesman Major-General Shaukat Sultan said up to 14 people had been killed in several blasts in the Bajaur tribal region but said he did not know the cause.

Allan's not happy.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 01/13/2006 10:25 Comments || Top||

#2  ''It was American aircraft -- who could dare do that except them?''
Kinda makes 'ya wanted sing don't it?
Posted by: Crease Slolung3988 || 01/13/2006 10:38 Comments || Top||

#3  We have no reports of U.S. forces operating in the area either.
Posted by: Halliburton, UFO Div. || 01/13/2006 10:52 Comments || Top||

#4  Kinda makes 'ya wanted sing don't it?

Passing out sweets would probably be more appropriate... ;)
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 01/13/2006 12:40 Comments || Top||

#5  ''It appears the Americans suspected some foreigners or wanted people were hiding in these houses. But there have never been foreigners in this area before.''

NEVER? Ahhhh ha ha ha ha ahhhhh ha hah ahaha hah hah ha ha ha ha!

Really? Those Soddies passing through? How about the Sudanese and Yemenis? And never is a long time oh bearded tribal spokes-ass. Didn't Alexander The Great pass through the neighborhood a while back?
Posted by: The Angry Fliegerabwehrkanonen || 01/13/2006 13:19 Comments || Top||

#6  No, that was caused by the evil Jinns and their UFOs.
Posted by: Sock Puppet O´ Doom || 01/13/2006 16:38 Comments || Top||

#7  It seems that the offical claiming this happend was Sahibzada Haroon ur Rashid while the Pakistani administration, military, the Afghan government and the US military are all saying that do not know what happened. So one wonders are the Time article title. When some one says 'Pakistan claims' I usally assume this means the Pakistani government not a single legislature whose family seems to have been the worst victim of the explosion.
Posted by: Robi || 01/13/2006 16:45 Comments || Top||

#8  I think this missle strike is the same missle strike talked about above in the post suggesting the USAF may have gotten Zawahiri.
Posted by: Joluck Snaque8678 || 01/13/2006 21:29 Comments || Top||

#9  What makes this suspicious, if it isn't the Zawahiri strike, is that only 18 died. We can do better than that.
Posted by: .com || 01/13/2006 21:46 Comments || Top||

#10  that was caused by the evil Jinns

I have been slammed a couple times by some evil Gin myself. Praise be to Allan that no baby ducks or bunnies were hurt in this terrible incident.
Posted by: SteveS || 01/13/2006 22:03 Comments || Top||


Nepal Necropsies Numerated
KATMANDU, Nepal - Nepal’s army killed at least 10 communist rebels during a gunbattle in the fiercest fighting since the guerrillas ended a cease-fire earlier this month, a defense ministry spokesman said on Friday.

The rebels were killed in the clash Thursday at Chitre area, about 200 kilometers (125 miles) west of the capital, Katmandu, Defense Ministry spokesman Bhupendra Poudel said. A large number of arms and ammunition were recovered after the gunfight, Poudel said.

Comment from the rebels wasn’t immediately available, and it wasn’t possible to independently confirm the army’s version of events.
Posted by: Steve White || 01/13/2006 00:06 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Fresh Clashes in Balochistan Leave 15 Dead
Fifteen people were killed in clashes on Wednesday night between Pakistani security forces and Bugti tribesmen in Balochistan. “Twelve tribesmen were killed and three security men lost their lives, Abdul Samad Lasi, the region’s police chief, said yesterday. The clashes between Bhambore Rifles, a wing of the Frontier Corps, and the tribesmen began after the authorities took over a building located in Sui gas field. The building belonged to the Pakistan Petroleum Limited but was leased out to Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti who renamed it “Bugti House”. The authorities initially detained 11 tribesmen and recovered from them huge quantities of arms and ammunition.

On Wednesday evening, a vehicle of the Frontier Corps was hit by a land mine. Two security men were killed instantly and an undisclosed number of soldiers injured. Men of Bhambore Rifles later took control of the hills surrounding Dera Bugti. They were fired upon around midnight. The security men retaliated and killed at least 12 Bugti tribesmen. In the heavy exchange of fire, two security men were injured. They later died in a Frontier Corps hospital.

Early yesterday, a powerful explosion ruptured a section of a state-owned gas pipeline, briefly disrupting supplies, but injuring no one, police said. No group claimed responsibility for the attack in Kundkot. An area police chief, Mazhar Shahab, said engineers had started repair work. He blamed tribal militants for the attack, although he did not offer any evidence.
Posted by: Fred || 01/13/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Iraq
Mutha (excuse me, Murtha) doesn't know how right he is
MURTHA: VAST MAJORITY OF U.S. TROOPS WILL BE OUT OF IRAQ BY END OF YEAR
Fri Jan 13 2006 17:14:15 ET

Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) believes the vast majority of U.S. troops in Iraq will be out by the end of the year and maybe even sooner. In his boldest words yet on the subject, the outspoken critic of the war predicts the withdrawal and tells Mike Wallace why he thinks the Bush administration will do it.

It's because they'll be in Iran, dummy!
Posted by: Whimble Spoluling9323 || 01/13/2006 18:08 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It's not because we are completing the mission, it's because congress is going to make him do it.

Yeah, right. Only a democrat could turn this against Bush.
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 01/13/2006 20:34 Comments || Top||

#2  Fox ran the video clip of Sgt Seavey bitch-slapping Murtha and Moran this afternoon on Hume's Special Report. It was saweeet!
Posted by: .com || 01/13/2006 21:50 Comments || Top||

#3  Don't laugh, they're trying like hell to do just that.
Posted by: Steve White || 01/13/2006 21:53 Comments || Top||

#4  Geez.. this is a real rough haul for the averge 'mercan.

what a load. Pounded inside and out.

let it be known, some Canadians see the reality and don't agree with the prevalent bashing.

Thanks

for all the things we can't do
Posted by: Hupomoger Clans9827 || 01/13/2006 21:56 Comments || Top||

#5  Dr Steve - I try not to laugh when squeezing the trigger. Ruins the aim, y'know. ;-)
Posted by: .com || 01/13/2006 21:57 Comments || Top||


US helicopter goes down in Mosul
A U.S. Army reconnaissance helicopter went down near Mosul in northern Iraq on Friday while aiding Iraqi police who came under hostile fire, and its two pilots were seriously injured, military officials said.

Both pilots of the OH-58 Kiowa, which is armed, were alive but unconscious when they were evacuated, U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Joel Burger, of the 172nd Stryker Brigade's 2nd Battalion, 1st Infantry Regiment, said at the scene of the crash. It was unclear why the helicopter went down at about 2:15 p.m.

"They were not conscious. It's not looking good. I've spent a lot of time in Iraq and these guys were pretty beat up," Burger said.

The helicopter crashed near a group of mud huts in Mosul, 225 miles northwest of Baghdad. There was wreckage strewn over most of the crash site.

"It was responding to small arms fire being taken by Iraqi police. The gunmen fled to a nearby mosque," said Maj. Richard Greene, executive officer of the 2-1.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:34 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  yes, but they were conscious, and it must have been really nice to realize they had been rescued by Americans!
Posted by: 2b || 01/13/2006 11:05 Comments || Top||

#2  2b, ???

"Two Killed in U.S. Chopper Crash in Iraq"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060113/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_helicopter_down
Posted by: Anon4021 || 01/13/2006 11:47 Comments || Top||

#3  The gunmen fled to a nearby mosque

I hope something has happened to the mosque as a result.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 11:47 Comments || Top||

#4  There was still hope in this article. However, if they were one of my loved ones, I would take some small measure of comfort in knowing that they were conscious of the fact that they were found by Americans and thus in safe and caring hands.
Posted by: 2b || 01/13/2006 13:56 Comments || Top||

#5  I'm the same way 2b, when read about IEDs or aircraft wreckage I search the articles hard for any ray of hope.
Posted by: Red Dog || 01/13/2006 15:56 Comments || Top||


U.S. bangs six, snags one near Baghdad
US soldiers battled with a group of insurgents south west of Baghdad on Wednesday, killing six and wounding a seventh who was later detained, the military said. “While conducting an air-insertion mission, Task Force Ironhorse soldiers killed several insurgents, detained one and discovered a significant weapons cache today,” it said in a statement released from Baghdad late on Wednesday. The statement did not specify where the fight took place and a military spokeswoman yesterday would only say it occurred “south west of Baghdad.
Posted by: Fred || 01/13/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hooah!
Posted by: Besoeker || 01/13/2006 9:51 Comments || Top||

#2  CHEERS!
Posted by: bgrebel9 || 01/13/2006 12:49 Comments || Top||

#3  Six on their way to paradise and a go at her
Posted by: The Angry Fliegerabwehrkanonen || 01/13/2006 17:13 Comments || Top||

#4  Looks like a poster broad for one of any 72, Angry F.
Posted by: Inspector Clueso || 01/13/2006 20:44 Comments || Top||


4 Danish Officers Convicted of Breaching Iraqis’ Rights
A Danish Army captain and four military police officers were found guilty yesterday of breaching human rights conventions in interrogations of detainees in Iraq. The Copenhagen City Court said Capt. Annemette Hommel and the four co-defendants violated the rights of the detainees by forcing them to kneel in uncomfortable positions during questioning in March 2004.

The court declined to issue sentences because of extenuating circumstances, saying the defendants had not received clear guidelines from the Danish military. The five defendants had pleaded innocent in what was Denmark’s first trial related to its 530-strong contingent in the port city of Basra, 400 kilometers southeast of Baghdad. All five immediately appealed the verdict to a higher court. Hommel, 38, told reporters the verdict was “totally not in line” with her values. “I think the court opted for an unnecessarily hard line,” Hommel said as she rushed out of the courthouse with her parents. The case, which followed prisoner abuse scandals involving US and British troops, was partly based on allegations by civilian interpreters used by the Danish military.

The court said Hommel and the four officers, who cannot be named under a court order, violated Danish military laws by breaching the Geneva Conventions on the humane treatment of prisoners. However, it acquitted the defendants on several counts of mistreatment citing lack of evidence, including charges that they denied the detainees water and verbally insulted them during questioning. The court said military authorities failed to give Hommel clear instructions on how to conduct interrogations, despite her repeated requests for guidance. The three Iraqi detainees, members of the Al-Sadr militia that has battled US and British troops, had been brought to the Danish Camp Eden for questioning on suspicion of setting up illegal road blocks and rioting.

During the trial, which started May 2, Hommel’s defense lawyer, Ebbe Mogensen, said there was no evidence that his client had done anything criminal while questioning the Iraqi detainees. He lashed out at Denmark’s military command for sending Hommel to Iraq with inadequate interrogation training and said key witness testimonies against her were contradictory and unfounded. Denmark’s defense chief, Gen. Hans Jesper Helsoe, said in a statement he would not comment on the case until it has been settled by the appeals court. The trial was conducted in a civilian court because Denmark has no military courts.
Posted by: Fred || 01/13/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ...even softer power dhimmitude...

The Danes will become very familiar with the "uncomfortable" kneeling position.
Posted by: .com || 01/13/2006 6:25 Comments || Top||

#2  kangaroo??? Ah....kangaroo court. I get it! If I had any photoshop skills, I'd photoshop a tennis racquet in his right hand and a tennis ball in his left.
Posted by: 2b || 01/13/2006 19:29 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine-Jordan
Three killed in Jenin clashes
A Palestinian man has blown himself up and Israeli forces have killed two others during clashes in the town of Jenin in the West Bank, security sources and Palestinian witnesses say. Aljazeera's correspondent in Jenin reported that the bomber blew himself up near a group of Israeli soldiers who were carrying out an operation against Palestinian resistance fighters. Israeli forces had surrounded a building in which activists from the al-Quds Brigades, the armed wing of Islamic Jihad Movement, were taking shelter. More than 30 military vehicles and a bulldozer were involved in the Israeli operation. An Israeli source said the bomber detonated an explosives belt after refusing to surrender.
It doesn't sound like he actually managed to take any Zionists with him, or al-Jizz would be trumpeting that...
Another Palestinian fighter in the house was shot and killed by the Israeli soldiers, according to witnesses. Another Palestinian was reported killed during a separate clash with Israeli forces in Jenin. In the city of Ram Allah, violence flared up when armed men opened fire on the home of Nasser Yousef, the Palestinian Interior Minister. Yousef, who was home at the time, was unhurt, but three gunmen were wounded, one critically. Yousef's bodyguards returned fire and wounded three of the gunmen, who were taken to hospital. One was in critical condition with a neck wound, medics said.
"You shot me! You shot me in the neck!"
"He's right, Ari. You screwed up. Next time, aim 4 inches higher."
A fourth gunman escaped in a car, prompting Palestinian security forces to set up roadblocks in the West Bank city. It was not immediately clear which of the many armed Palestinian factions the gunmen belonged to or what prompted the attack. In a seperate incident, gunmen also shot at the offices of Ahmed Qureia, the Palestinian prime minister. There were no reported injuries.
Posted by: Fred || 01/13/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Not well written. Clearly there were a number of attackers on the Minister's house (three, I think), who opened fire. Then there were the bodyguards, who fired back. But it isn't clear to me whether there were additional gunmen inside the house, three of whom were wounded by the attackers' bullets, or if those bullets hit nothing important and only the three attackers were wounded -- by bullets fired by the bodyguards.

Of course, Al Jazeera is a spin-off from the BBC, so I don't expect the kind of clear thought leading to clear writing that I find here.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 7:41 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Sultan of Maguindanao bumped off
Two masked gunmen killed the Muslim sultan of Maguindanao and wounded his brother in an ambush in the southern Philippines, police said yesterday, warning of a potential clan war in the area. Local police chief Inspector Rick Masla said Datu Amir Baraguir and his brother, Andy, were walking home on Wednesday evening in Sultan Kudarat town when two men on a motorcycle shot them with pistols.
If he and his brother Andy were walking home, he doesn't sound like your run-of-the-mill Muslim potentate...
“The sultan did not reach the hospital alive,” said Masla. “We’re still trying to investigate the motive for the shooting. We’re hoping the sultan’s death would not stir up a clan war.”
If anything does, I'd it expect this to be it...
Baraguir, 45, ascended a year ago to the Sultanate of Maguindanao, one of several Muslim royal houses in the troubled south. Police said Baraguir was known as a moderate Islamic leader and an advocate of self-determination for Muslims in the south of the mainly Roman Catholic country, supporting proposals to revise the constitution and move to a parliamentary system. Before he was enthroned as the 25th sultan, Baraguir wrote a newspaper column and hosted a community radio program promoting peaceful coexistence among Christian, Muslim and mountain tribes on the island of Mindanao.
That's always a good way to get yourself assisted from the gene pool when there are turbans around...
His columns and radio commentaries attacked extremist Muslim groups, earning the ire of separatist Islamist guerrillas seeking an independent state.
Now, let's think real hard and guess who dunnit...
Posted by: Fred || 01/13/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  If he and his brother Andy were walking home, he doesn't sound like your run-of-the-mill Muslim potentate...

They were walking through Sultan Whosis Town. I read that as along the lines of Versailles. In other words, they were strolling around their property of an evening, possibly going to pick up the evening newspaper the paperboy tossed onto the bottom of the driveway (because his throwing arm wasn't strong enough to get it onto the front porch). For perspective, a few years ago I joined Mr. Wife at a company offsite meeting in Malaysia -- in Kuantan, where one of their sultans lives. A sister of the sultan lived down the street from the palace, in a nicely finished, possibly 1000 square foot house on stilts, with naked toddlers and chickens running through the bare dirt front yard (I've seen proper English gardens -- this was not one). The sultan's palace itself, seen through the wrought iron gate, wasn't honestly much bigger than the house of the retired CEO of Mr. Wife's employer, and the grounds didn't appear as extensive as the property on which the trailing daughters' elementary school was built (something under 20 acres), into which was fitted the quarter mile of train track for the sultan's pet railroad, and the substantial stables. I think most sultans and such-like potentates are not fabulously wealthy as portrayed in the storybooks, despite having life and death power over their subjects. Owning the entire substance of some villages of farmers, fishermen, and hunters-in-the-jungle is not like having a controlling share in Microsoft, or in a couple of oil wells.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 8:03 Comments || Top||

#2  Here is more information about the sultan's region, gleaned from Living in the Phillipines (the CIA Factbook had nothing useful, at first glance):

MAGUINDANAO
The province of Cotabato, which used to be the largest province in the Philippines, was divided into three provinces on November 22, 1973 by Presidential Decree 341. One of these new provinces was Maguindanao. The province of Maguindanao is supposed to be the home for the Muslim Maguindanaos also called the “People of the foot plains”, because of the rich fertile river valleys where they have settled. The Maguindanaos, who survive on agriculture, fishing and weaving, are known to be the largest group of Muslims in the south. Other major tribes which have settled in the area are the Muslim Iranons and the animistic Tirurays.
Former Name: None
Land Area: 5,474.1 square kilometers
Capital: Maganoy
Population: 536,546 (1980)
Principal Dialects: Maguindanao, Hiligaynon, Cebuano and Tiruray
Income Classification: Fourth Class Province
No. of Cities: 1 (Cotabato)
No. of Municipalities: 17 (Ampatuan, Barira, Buldon, Buluan, Datu Paglas, Datu Piang, Dinaig, Kabuntalan, Maganoy, Matanog, Pagalungan, Parang, South Upi, Sultan Kudarat, Sultan sa Barongis, Talayan, and Upi)
No. of Municipal Districts: None
Topography: At the center area of the old Cotabato Province is a large river valley traversed by the tributaries of Mindanao River. Maguindanao is a large lowland of Mindanao.
No. of Principal Rivers: 1 (Mindanao)
No. of Mountains: 2
Climate: Characterized by a more or less even distribution of rainfall throughout the year, the coldest months in the province are December and January. The warm season is from March to June.
Average Annual Rainfall: 34.35 inches
Principal products/crops: Rice, corn, peanuts, vegetables and fruits
Industries: Hog and poultry raising, fishing and logging
Mineral Resources: Copper
Forest Resources: Timber
Tourist Attractions: Cotabato City
Governor: Zacaria Candao
Congressmen: Michael O. Mastura, Guimid Matalam
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 8:18 Comments || Top||

#3  TW eegcellent!!
Posted by: Red Dog || 01/13/2006 9:19 Comments || Top||

#4  ..not only was it enjoyably eegcellent, it was also eggcellent! :)
Posted by: Red Dog || 01/13/2006 9:22 Comments || Top||

#5  into which was fitted the quarter mile of train track for the sultan's pet railroad, and the substantial stables.

He liked trains and horses? Now I am pissed.
Posted by: Besoeker || 01/13/2006 9:49 Comments || Top||

#6  Cotabato and the area aroud it is controlled by MILF. Just north of Cotabato is the JI camps we read about here on RB. My friends there relayed it was a tribal issue that got him killed. He was a lot like father Nacrda on Basilan island, always preaching peacefull coexistance. From what I hear Datu was one of the good guys there.
Posted by: 49 Pan || 01/13/2006 10:26 Comments || Top||

#7  Gosh, thanks, Red Dog! Now I can have my brain scanned while eating eggs -- life is good. ;-)
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 11:49 Comments || Top||

#8  Industries: Hog and poultry raising
I take it the animistic Tirurays raise the hogs?
Posted by: 3dc || 01/13/2006 13:32 Comments || Top||


Sri Lanka
Nine sailors killed in Sri Lanka blast
At least nine Sri Lankan sailors have been killed in a landmine attack by suspected Tamil Tiger rebels, the military says. The sailors were travelling in a convoy of several vehicles as they returned to their posts after a vacation, an official says, adding 13 other sailors escaped with injuries. "Eight sailors were killed on the spot and 14 others escaped with injuries and one of them died on the way to hospital," an official in the northern town of Vavuniya said. The incident is the fourth of its kind in the past three weeks. Thirteen sailors died in a similar ambush on December 23, and another 12 died in a mine attack four days later. On Saturday, 15 sailors died in a suicide attack which sank their gun boat in the north-eastern port district of Trincomalee.
Posted by: Fred || 01/13/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Fighter Wing(+) Deploys 84 F-16s To Iraq
Coinciding with increased tensions with Iran over the resumption of illicit uranium enrichment, the U.S. Air Force has dispatched additional warplanes to the region in a not-so-subtle sign, military sources say.

An entire wing of F-16s, the Air National Guard's 122nd Fighter Wing based in Fort Wayne, Ind., left for a base in southwest Asia on Tuesday. A wing is usually about 72 aircraft and several hundred support personnel.

F-16s and support personnel from the 4th Fighter Squadron of the 388th Fighter Wing based at Hill Air Force Base, Utah, also deployed recently to Iraq. The squadron has 12 F-16s.

Both units' F-16s could be used in any military operation to take out Iranian nuclear facilities.

A spokesman for the U.S. Central Command Air Forces, which runs air operations in the region, said the F-16 deployment of about 80 jets is part of a rotation and is not related to Iran's uranium reprocessing.
This story from back in December validates the claim that the wing was scheduled to deploy now - or at least was so planned a few weeks prior to Iran's breaking of the IAEA seals. No word, one way or the other however, on whether the unit they are replacing is returning right away or hanging around in-theater for a while.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 01/13/2006 12:13 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  No worries, just a routine summer camp training event. They were falling just slightly behind on flight hours.
Posted by: Besoeker || 01/13/2006 12:29 Comments || Top||

#2  That pesky insurgent air wing still requires suppression.
Posted by: Zenster || 01/13/2006 12:43 Comments || Top||

#3  "No word, one way or the other however, on whether the unit they are replacing is returning right away or hanging around in-theater for a while."

Ahh... let's hope they hang around for the upcoming fireworks!
Posted by: The Angry Fliegerabwehrkanonen || 01/13/2006 13:10 Comments || Top||

#4  If things get hot, I would expect a wing like this one to be patrolling places like the Syrian border rather than into Iran itself. That would free up newer planes, including the strike eagles, to escort stealthed bombers into the places they need to go.

If we have any marines reading this thread - don't you all also practice rapid insertion of small inspection teams right after raids, to verify complete destruction of the target? Do you do that using F-16s or other airframes?
Posted by: lotp || 01/13/2006 13:12 Comments || Top||

#5  lotp: Used to call it BDA (bomb damage assessment). Now I believe referred to as "kinetic effects."
Posted by: Besoeker || 01/13/2006 13:16 Comments || Top||

#6  For some reason, a "pre-planned deployment" announced 14 days ago... I also note that this is their largest deployment since 1961.

I wonder if they will announce some "pre-planned deployments" of heavy bombers today to arrive in theater next week.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 01/13/2006 13:18 Comments || Top||

#7  Agreed that it's BDA, Besoerker. Just wondered what airframe was favored for team insertion in circumstances like this - assuming it isn't done by SOCOM instead.
Posted by: lotp || 01/13/2006 13:25 Comments || Top||

#8  Gun cams or UAV's would be safest alternative to potentially costly team insertions. Insertion or infiltration (INFIL) is usually pretty simple. One must remember that Murphy is always along for the ride, and it's the exfiltration (EXFIL) that can get badly buggered up. We've been down both roads in Iran, i.e., pre-UAV Desert One and other locs. I'm a UAV fan myself.
Posted by: Besoeker || 01/13/2006 13:42 Comments || Top||

#9  Hard to fly 'em into those tunnels, unless it's the backpack Ravens or such -- and that means a team nearby .... Ditto for the robots the Army sends into caves in Afghanistan.
Posted by: lotp || 01/13/2006 13:44 Comments || Top||

#10  whahahhaa...very true indeed. Subterranean is sure another issue.
Posted by: Besoeker || 01/13/2006 13:49 Comments || Top||

#11  I wonder if they will announce some "pre-planned deployments" of heavy bombers today to arrive in theater next week.

I wonder if there have been any basing changes since we deployed 15 F-117 Nighthawks from the 49th bomber wing to So. Korea a year ago and some B-2s to Guam a year before that ...
Posted by: lotp || 01/13/2006 13:50 Comments || Top||

#12  Be careful with what you say. Loose lips and all of that.
Posted by: anon || 01/13/2006 13:52 Comments || Top||

#13  Understood. But those deployments were announced by DOD at the time. They were INTENDED to be public - as the bitter reaction out of Pyongyang proves. The NORKs weren't happy one little bit about those deployments and said so loudly at the time.
Posted by: lotp || 01/13/2006 13:54 Comments || Top||

#14  From a June 02, 2005 Korea Times article I printed, but can't find the URL for:

US Deploying 15 Stealth Fighters to S. Korea

By Jung Sung-ki
Staff Reporter
The Pentagon is deploying 15 F-117A Nighthawk stealth fighters and 250 airmen this week from its air force base in New Mexico in the U.S. to the Korean Peninsula, the U.S Forces Korea (USFK) said Wednesday.

The 49th Fighter Wing at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico Monday announced the deployment of about 250 air crew and support personnel, along with the stealths, and the USFK said.

The F-117A Nighthawk stealth fighters are expected to be deployed to either U.S. air bases in Osan or Kunsan, said Kim Yong-kyu, a public relations official at the USFK.

``The current deployment of the stealths is not related to the current situation surrounding Pyongyang's nuclear threat, Kim quoted USFK spokeswoman MaryAnn Cummings as saying. ``This is a routine deployment of a U.S. air force unit for training and familiarization.

However, the U.S. move drew attention as it came as tensions are continuing to escalate over the communist regime's possible nuclear test, worsening prospects of an early resumption of the six-party talks on the North Korean nuclear weapons program.

``The deployment is part of an ongoing measure to maintain a credible deterrent posture and presence in the region,'' said a news release from the air force base.

Speculations over a possible contingency plan against the North by the U.S. have arisen since the U.S. military is beefing up its military capabilities in the Pacific region, by repositioning its sophisticated fighter jets and Navy vessels.

Last February, the U.S. deployed B-2 Spirit stealth bombers and F-15E fighter jets in Guam, the range to strike North Korea's nuclear facilities in case of an emergency, according to the Stars and Stripes, a U.S. army newspaper published in Seoul.


got the date wrong in the previous comment - it was June of last year for the Nighthawks and one year ago for the B-2s.
Posted by: lotp || 01/13/2006 13:57 Comments || Top||

#15  Hard to fly 'em into those tunnels, unless it's the backpack Ravens or such -- and that means a team nearby ....

Hmmmmm....

A heavier UAV that carriers a parachute-equipped rover. The UAV drops the rover near the target structure, then orbits high, acting as a comm relay.

You may not be able to retrieve the rover, but you could use something cheap and simple so you don't really care. Make them light enough, and the UAV could carry more than one, either to let you look in different areas or as a reserve.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 01/13/2006 14:04 Comments || Top||

#16  Haven't followed the details of recent equipment, but the earlier cave exploration bots were teleoperated via cables IIRC due to radio reception problems inside all that granite.

Similar issues likely to be true in shielded tunnels ....
Posted by: lotp || 01/13/2006 14:17 Comments || Top||

#17  LTOP - that's why I am lobbying for rabid ferrets and snakes...
They can soften it up prior to actual action and operate quite well in caves without operators.
Posted by: 3dc || 01/13/2006 14:29 Comments || Top||

#18  What about those glow in the dark Korean pigs?

A question: If Iranians' nuke facilities are blasted, wouldn't any bomb assessment team be at risk of exposure to massive amounts of radioactive material?
Posted by: The Angry Fliegerabwehrkanonen || 01/13/2006 17:07 Comments || Top||

#19  ..The unit you want to keep an eye on is the 20 FW at Shaw AFB, SC - they are the 'Wild Weasel' units for the Persian Gulf. If they go - in squadron strength or more - fight's on.

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 01/13/2006 17:13 Comments || Top||

#20  Unfortunately, I doubt they in particular would depart which much fanfare, so unless you stumble on some local news item...
Posted by: Anonymoose || 01/13/2006 17:45 Comments || Top||

#21  Is there a list anywhere (public) of scheduled rotations? Which units are going next?

Thx.
Posted by: Iblis || 01/13/2006 18:28 Comments || Top||

#22  It would be a great signal to the world for the US to take Iran down with the National Guard. I think it would be the first case in American history of a Guard unit Destroying a country, and a nice payback for the guards efforts in WOT.
Posted by: 49 Pan || 01/13/2006 20:26 Comments || Top||

#23  49 Pan, you have a vicious sense of.... I'm not sure what. Well said!
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 22:05 Comments || Top||


Iran vows to end IAEA cooperation if referred to security council
Iran threatened on Friday to end all nuclear cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency, the United Nations’ nuclear watchdog, if its nuclear file was sent to the UN Security Council, as is looking more likely than ever.

The European Union three – Britain, France, and Germany – said on Thursday that they were seeking an emergency session of the IAEA board of governors to refer Tehran to the Security Council for resuming previously-suspended nuclear enrichment-related activities at its uranium enrichment facility in Natanz.

Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said on Friday that if Iran’s file did appear before the UN for possible sanctions then the Islamic Republic would end nuclear cooperation with the IAEA, which includes allowing spot inspections of suspect nuclear weapons sites, the state-run ISNA news agency reported.

Speaking in the southern port city of Bandar Abbass, Mottaki said, “The EU must take note that any attempts to refer and report Iran’s file to the Security Council will oblige the government of Iran to end all voluntary cooperation with the IAEA, in accordance with the law passed in the Majlis (Parliament)”.

The Foreign Minister said that he wished the EU states did not put Iran in a position where it would no longer be able to cooperate with them.

“We had said right from the start that threats such as referral of Iran’s file to the Security Council would not be useful”, he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:27 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Iran threatened on Friday to end all nuclear cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency,..

Oh my, they've been "cooperating" all this time???

Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 01/13/2006 10:43 Comments || Top||

#2  “We had said right from the start that threats such as referral of Iran’s file to the Security Council would not be useful”

Even stopped, correct twice a day a clock may be. [/Yoda]
Posted by: Zenster || 01/13/2006 12:29 Comments || Top||

#3  “We had said right from the start that threats such as referral of Iran’s file to the Security Council would not be useful”

Even stopped, correct twice a day a clock may be. [/Yoda]
Posted by: Zenster || 01/13/2006 12:34 Comments || Top||

#4  These people need a rude awakening. I suggest a 300kt burrowing weapon in the center of Qom. The survivors can discuss surrender terms. Failure to surrender in 10 days leads to another city being vaporized: Bandar Abbas, Tehran, Shiraz, Meshed, Abadan, Isfahan, Hamadan, Jask - one after another until they surrender unconditionally. They have no way of retaliating in a comparable manner. If they try to cross the Iran/Iraq border, they will meet a hail of lead from Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force. Let the Kurds liberate Tabriz and form a larger, independent Kurdistan. It's time to quit playing with both hands tied behind us and one foot in the bucket. This is for ALL the marbles, and we cannot dare blink.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 01/13/2006 16:41 Comments || Top||


Lebanon charges 13 al-Qaeda with planning attacks
Lebanon charged 13 suspected al Qaeda members on Friday with planning to launch terrorist attacks, military prosecutor Ahmed Awidat said.

The charges also include possession of weapons and forging documents, Awidat said. He did not give further details, but said the suspects would appear before a military magistrate for questioning at a later date.

Security sources said earlier on Friday that Lebanese security forces had arrested the suspects -- seven Syrians, three Lebanese, one Saudi, one Jordanian with Lebanese nationality and one Palestinian -- about two weeks ago.

Al Qaeda has rarely launched attacks in Lebanon, although it has used allied factions to recruit scores of volunteers among Lebanese and Palestinian refugees who went to Iraq to fight.

One of the al Qaeda hijackers in the September 11 attacks in the United States was a Lebanese national.

A foiled attempt to bomb the Italian embassy in Beirut in 2004 was blamed on a small militant group with links to al Qaeda.

Al Qaeda in Iraq has claimed responsibility for firing three Katyusha rockets from south Lebanon into northern Israel on December 27. There has been no independent confirmation that the Sunni Muslim militant group was behind that attack.

Israeli warplanes bombed a Palestinian guerrilla base just south of Beirut in retaliation for the strike.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:17 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  A Lebanese prison? Not where I'd want to end up.
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 11:51 Comments || Top||


Syria says U.N. investigators cannot meet Assad
United Nations investigators probing the killing of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri cannot meet Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, Syrian Information Minister Mahdi Dakhl-Allah said on Thursday.
"Nope. Nope. Can't do it. He's washing his hair that day... And he'll be out of town... His... ummm... grandmother died..."
Asked if Syria rejected holding a meeting between Assad and the investigators, Dakhl-Allah told Egyptian radio: "Certainly, because the issue is related to Syria's sovereignty."
"Y'can't be sovreign if yer gonna have people askin' you all sorts of questions!"
The team conducting an inquiry into Hariri's death in a Beirut bomb blast on Feb. 14 has been trying to interview Assad. Diplomats had said previously the Syrian leader had refused. "Syria is committed to its independence and sovereignty. This is a red line that cannot be crossed," Dakhl-Allah added.
Posted by: Fred || 01/13/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Cooperation == full access, not picking and choosing who can be talked to and who can't.

So the question is, are they going to cooperate, or are they not? If not, lower the boom on 'em.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 01/13/2006 15:00 Comments || Top||


Lull, hiatus, or victory?
I don't know if anyone's noticed but me, but the war against al-Qaeda and its hydra-headed affiliates seems to have entered into a phase of relative quiet. Corpse counts seem to be down, and the contents of Page One are more concerned with actions that fit the more traditional mold of international relations. It's likely we're going to end up at war with Iran somewhere down the line, which will strike a blow at the junior nexus of terrorism, but al-Qaeda seems to have had it for now.

Despite the claims of a resurgence of violence in Afghanistan, the Taliban is pretty much powerless. I think Afghans realize they're an idea whose time has gone. The country can develop — or not, depending on its elected politicians — without much danger of Mullah Omar resuming his position as potentate.

Pakistan is going through internal trouble, with rebellion in Balochistan and its own Taliban running amok in Waziristan. They're negotiating with India over Kashmir, and the daily booms that were the rule a couple years ago have receded into the background noise. It's still a country with a culture of violence, but they're welcome to kill each other as far as I'm concerned. Binny hasn't been heard from, and Michael Ledeen says he heard that he's dead, buried in Iran.

Indonesia and the Philippines are also relatively quiet, despite the continuing stories about Jemaah Islamiyah having big plans in the works. Dulmatin and Noordin Mohammad Top are still at large, but it looks like the organization might be broken. Violence in southern Thailand seems down, too.

The Soddies seem to be mopping up their domestic al-Qaeda, though they still haven't chopped off the heads of any holy men. The Aden-Abyan Islamic Army and its successors in Yemen have pooped out. Jordan has declared its own War on Terror, and maybe they'll even clean out Zarqa and Maan. With the Syrians gone, the Lebs are starting to look askance at Hezbollah and ask each other why Paleos should be allowed to run around their country waving guns and shooting the occasional meter reader.

In Iraq they've had their elections, they've got a constitution, and even the domestic Sunni tough guys seem to be falling out with Zark's international adventurer corps. Sammy's on trial and Tariq Aziz is on his death bed. We're talking about troop reductions and withdrawals, while the Iraqi army and cops take on more of the load and the Brits bitch about the way we do things.

GSPC has been clobbered in Algeria, with three of its biggest boys being taken into custody with a wad of cash the other day. Morocco's version of GSPC seems to have been stillborn.

Turkey's attempt at Qaeda-style terrorism doesn't seem to have come to much. The Euros, especially Spain, keep reeling in hard boyz. Yasser's dead and the Paleos are shooting each other up in Emma Goldmann-style anarchy.

There will be another boom in a little while. Dan says the latest Zawahiri video could be the signal for a new major attack, maybe in Italy. Zark keeps trying for ever higher stacks of deaders in Iraq and to export the carnage to neighboring countries. Chechnya seems to be transforming into something larger and more dangerous, and the Russers are incompetent to stop it. The Soddy preachers keep trying to whip up the rubes, and I'm sure the money's still flowing from the princes. But at this point it looks like we've passed the peak. Unless the bad guyz manage to go nuclear — at which point all bets are off — if we just keep doing what we're doing they're beaten.
Posted by: Fred || 01/13/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Fred, it would seem so, at least as the locations you've mentioned are concerned. We may end up we a relatively calm and manageable ME, but I think that the focus of islamists will shift to Europe. It's the area of the lowest resistance in their view. Perhaps for some time, the modus operandi would be a low level of terror--like in some cities de facto taken over by muslim immigrants, spiked once a while by a boom here and there. But it is a waiting game and in five years or even sooner, the daily news from Europe would be rather depressing.
Posted by: twobyfour || 01/13/2006 0:48 Comments || Top||

#2  Lull, hiatus, or victory?

Hiatus. Or hudna.
Posted by: Pappy || 01/13/2006 2:40 Comments || Top||

#3  I'm with pappy: they're on the run, religiously incapable of admitting real defeat, so they're declaring a hudna that the left will spin as a "humanitarian" truce, and build themselves back up for the next battle. If they REALLY had any sense, they'd lay low until Shrillary got elected on the basis of, "Bush did good, we won, now let's pounce on business and divvy up the goodies from the boom".

Posted by: Ptah || 01/13/2006 5:14 Comments || Top||

#4  I am here in Iraq advising an Iraqi unit and if they can get the supply issue squared away and the old guys at higher HQs out of the way, these guys will open up an even larger can of ass whipping on the bad guys. We may have a long way to go but I agree we got over the peak.
Posted by: TopMac || 01/13/2006 6:32 Comments || Top||

#5  For the on-the-scene view and for your service - Thx, TopMac!
Posted by: .com || 01/13/2006 6:44 Comments || Top||

#6  WOT

DimmiCraps seem to be the largest threat in the WOT.

The media and elites are in full gaga over Shrillary, but I have faith that she'll never make POTUS if we remain vigilant and stick together.

thank you Rantburg U and all the critters here and a special thanks to our Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, Navy and Coast Guard.
Posted by: Red Dog || 01/13/2006 7:30 Comments || Top||

#7  The last half of a war like this will be the toughest, politically. Dems will want to stop our advances and reach for peace with the enemy. We must chase them to the ends of the earth and destroy them or we will be destine to fight them again.
Posted by: 49 Pan || 01/13/2006 7:42 Comments || Top||

#8  But what about Surging Violence?
Posted by: Crease Slolung3988 || 01/13/2006 7:44 Comments || Top||

#9  "Dems will want to stop our advances and reach for peace with the enemy. We must chase them to the ends of the earth and destroy them or we will be destine to fight them again."

Yep. And once we're done with the Dems, then we can get busy and do the same to the terrorists.

Yeah, I know I'm being a smartass, but Red Dog is right: the left-liberal establishment and particularly the Democratic party-- through stupidity, dishonesty, cowardice and faithlessness-- are a major barrier standing between us and victory over the Islamic menace.

And I'm no longer confident we can win against the latter, without destroying or at least crippling the former.

Posted by: Dave D. || 01/13/2006 8:17 Comments || Top||

#10  Pappy's correct, Hudna. Fred has listed the status of action on all the hot fronts, but they are not the decisive fronts. Europe continues to flail. Zappy looks more like Allende daily, the Dutch don't want to send their contribution to Afghanistan, Merkel seems tepid, God knows what the French and Italians will do, will Britain return to old labour after Blair goes (about this I am least worried) and when will Europe's population turn majority Islamic?

Likewise, the domestic situation, the most important front, is worrisome. Everyone can see the situation as Fred has described it, especially with MSM help, and the donks can say, "Mission Accomplished, let's pull out now to save the lives of our boys." Victorius interruptus. And they will. If this message wins in 2008, the terrs will get the breathing room they need to regroup, reorganize and rebuild.

Right now the biggest problem is Iran. If Bush wants to do something about it, he has done little to prepare the public. The donks will say he is getting us into another war that isn't justified, that we don't need to be in, just like Iraq. Why do we have to have these adventures to enrich Halliburton and KBR? And that message will resonate because the people have not been properly prepared to support action against Iran.

China is still out there, ready to play with anybody who will make a problem for us, Iran, Pakistan, Norks, Venezuela, Cuba, France.

Tactically, things are going well on the fronts DoD is addressing. At the next level of geo-political strategy, I'm not so sure.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 01/13/2006 9:06 Comments || Top||

#11  I'd like to remind everybody that not one war is still in progress, but two. The SOCOM shadow-war, operating on the four corners of the world, yet hidden from sight, has long been producing major victories that never see the light of day.

These victories are not one-shots, either. Often they involve the setting up and management of long-term intelligence and espionage networks, cultivating sources and field operatives, and creating immense databases to unmask entire enemy networks. Operations that may last 20 years.

About two years ago, perhaps, it was let slip that well over 200 such operatives had been killed in the line of duty. No mention since. But since it can be assumed that few of these gentlemen go into that night gently, they must have taken a hellacious number of enemy with them.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 01/13/2006 9:44 Comments || Top||

#12  This would be a good time to cancel the UN and start a new, mature, and freedom loving group.
Posted by: wxjames || 01/13/2006 9:52 Comments || Top||

#13 
Redacted by moderator. Comments may be redacted for trolling, violation of standards of good manners, or plain stupidity. Please correct the condition that applies and try again. Contents may be viewed in the sinktrap. Further violations may result in banning.
Posted by: Ray Gunn || 01/13/2006 10:01 Comments || Top||

#14  So it's Ray Gunn today? Slick...
Thought you were done here?
Posted by: tu3031 || 01/13/2006 10:07 Comments || Top||

#15  cute - trap him
Posted by: Frank G || 01/13/2006 10:13 Comments || Top||

#16  Keep in mind that the Italian attack may already have been thwarted by the GSPC attacks in Europe. I doubt that most people really have any idea about all of the hard work being done on both sides of the Atlantic that has kept Europe and the US from experiencing more terrorism. With Iran, the problem, as Nicholas Burns noted some time ago, is that the remaining al-Qaeda leadership is still there, regardless of Binny's status, and in Pakistan the LeT training camps are still operating. You kill those two nodes, take out their equivalents in SE Asia, and decapitate the Golden Chain, and I'll say that once that happens we'll have very much achieved our objective of defeating al-Qaeda with only the mopping up in places like Algeria, Bangladesh, and the Caucasus to keep us occupied.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 01/13/2006 10:15 Comments || Top||

#17  It's a lull while the remnants regroup.

I suspect that Israel will decapitate and de-nuke Iran -- soon. I'm hoping that will be a tipping point in which the Iranian survivors in power will decide that backing al-Qaeda, meddling in Iraq, and supporting terrorism is not the path to a greater Iran. I'm also hoping that it will be a shock and awe display involving at least one nuke so that Israel's foes will be forever reminded that they can be reduced to a glassy plain if they can't get past their scheming and seething and start minding their own business. The bigger the blow, the better the lesson.
Posted by: Darrell || 01/13/2006 10:24 Comments || Top||

#18  The world stage is a Go board to Chinese and US leaders - each advancing his white or black stone into the other's zone of influence, planning to encircle the other before being encircled themself. It is a rational process. Islamo-fascism is the third player whose only goal is to flip the board over. The US is distracted from the Go game as it works to keep the Mad Mullahs at bay. For some reason China seems unconcerned, even encouraging and sometimes supporting the MMs. They may feel their willingness to be ruthless will allow them to repel Islamo-fascism once China has achieved dominant position on the Go board. Are they overconfident? Between their western frontier issues and their neighbors to the south and east, they would seem to be asking for trouble - time will tell.
Through it all Europe, including Russia for the most part, just sits by, like college Go kibitzers stoned to the max, comprehending nothing.
Posted by: Glenmore || 01/13/2006 11:00 Comments || Top||

#19  I'd like to remind everybody that not one war is still in progress, but two. The SOCOM shadow-war, operating on the four corners of the world, yet hidden from sight, has long been producing major victories that never see the light of day.

Agreed. The question, however, was what 'terror' groups were doing at this point. They have been thrown off-balance. Unfortunately they are adaptable. Hence my opinion that it's a hiatus.

While it has been highly effective, there are limitations to what can be accomplished on the 'second war-front'. Most critical - intelligence, data and espionage networks require constant maintenance and are subject to political pressure. One merely need look at the Cold War history for that.
Posted by: Pappy || 01/13/2006 11:17 Comments || Top||

#20  It's a lot like bailing hay. At times we'd have to stop when a summer shower would come along. We'd maybe eat lunch, take a break, hiatus, whatever. But then when the rain stopped we'd be back out picking up bails until none remained in the field. It was hard work but we were committed to getting the job done. It's the American way.
Posted by: Besoeker || 01/13/2006 11:29 Comments || Top||

#21  Islamo-fascism is the third player whose only goal is to flip the board over. Well said!

Excellent post, Fred. I wish these victories were better known to the American public. History shows that the battles never end and there is always another Iran on the horizon, but the "war" organized by Binny's little band of international thugs is scattered and disoriented.
Posted by: 2b || 01/13/2006 11:45 Comments || Top||

#22  re: Iran

Fighters deploy
increased tensions with Iran over the resumption of illicit uranium enrichment, the U.S. Air Force has dispatched additional warplanes to the region in a not-so-subtle sign, military sources say.
An entire wing of F-16s, the Air National Guard's 122nd Fighter Wing based in Fort Wayne, Ind., left for a base in southwest Asia on Tuesday. A wing is usually about 72 aircraft and several hundred support personnel.
F-16s and support personnel from the 4th Fighter Squadron of the 388th Fighter Wing based at Hill Air Force Base, Utah, also deployed recently to Iraq. The squadron has 12 F-16s.
Both units' F-1Coinciding with 6s could be used in any military operation to take out Iranian nuclear facilities.
A spokesman for the U.S. Central Command Air Forces, which runs air operations in the region, said the F-16 deployment of about 80 jets is part of a rotation and is not related to Iran's uranium reprocessing.


Let's enjoy the quiet moment before the next noisy bit. Tea, anyone?
Posted by: trailing wife || 01/13/2006 11:59 Comments || Top||

#23  Yes, tea please, and one of those delightful milk tarts if you would.
Posted by: Besoeker || 01/13/2006 12:03 Comments || Top||

#24  Just a caution about interpreting the deployment of the 122nd wing.

This is an Air National Guard wing equipped, if I read their website correctly, with older models of the F-16. The deployment was announced late in December as part of a normal rotation. Could be that is because of the rising aggressiveness of Iran or just as part of rotations planned for a while. A whole airwing is a big deployment.

What is not said here (one way or the other) is whether the unit they are relieving is rotating home immediately or hanging around in theater for a while -- which would indeed mean the forces there have been augmented. This ANG wing is manned at a 900+ person level, according to the Dec. story, and so a count of 70+ aircraft sounds about right ....
Posted by: lotp || 01/13/2006 12:17 Comments || Top||

#25  Watch the Navy for awhile...
Posted by: Fred || 01/13/2006 12:40 Comments || Top||

#26  On the other hand, they're still lopping the heads off schoolgirls in Thailand...
Posted by: BH || 01/13/2006 13:10 Comments || Top||

#27  keep an eye on the USS Reagan strike group - left last week for a WesPac tour... if they cross into the Indian Ocean and there's no typhoon humanitarian crisis, wellll... :-)
Posted by: Frank G || 01/13/2006 13:12 Comments || Top||

#28  Fred,
As a PK I grok religion and am very troubled that nothing has been done to help the Soddy firebrand mullahs on to the next plain. It's a major missing element. That Friday sermon will continue to incite the fodder until the drift and tone are too dangerous to be spoken aloud.
Posted by: 3dc || 01/13/2006 13:16 Comments || Top||

#29  Fred - actually everything you mentioned is a symptom. They root cause is well known. It needs to be vectored or destroyed.
Posted by: 3dc || 01/13/2006 13:17 Comments || Top||

#30  Agree on the Navy. And as I posted in the new thread on the air wing deployment, while these are older aircraft and less experienced pilots, they could do a fine job patrolling, say, the border with Syria while the F15e Strike Eagles escorted B2s or Tomahawks found selected targets.

If it comes to that.
Posted by: lotp || 01/13/2006 13:18 Comments || Top||

#31  3dc has the nut of the issue. This crap will keep coming around until the holy men lose their heads or islam reforms.
Posted by: remoteman || 01/13/2006 14:00 Comments || Top||

#32  until the holy men lose their heads or islam reforms.

very true. But neither of those things are going to happen any time soon. The former because it would create absolute havoc among the billions of members of unreformed Islam. And since Islam hasn't reformed itself for thousands of years, chances are it won't be graduating from rehab anytime soon.

If I can't cure cancer, I'll settle for reducing its symptoms to the point where old age is poses a greater threat.
Posted by: 2b || 01/13/2006 14:11 Comments || Top||

#33  Through it all Europe, including Russia for the most part, just sits by, like college Go kibitzers stoned to the max, comprehending nothing.

Russia is in a complete and coordinated strategic alliance with China -- or atleast I've never once seen a single time in the last ten years (atleast) where their interests, methods or even their rhetoric have caused consternation or opposition in the other.

The global anti-democratic axis being formed, the one whose satellite states go from North Korea to Belarus and all the way to Venezuela and Bolivia (most recent acquisition of said axis) -- it has atleast as much Russian involvement as Chinese one: and I'd say even more so.

People underestimate Russia because of its bad economy and declining population -- but it's a diplomatic superpower and it has vast natural resources; and as such it wields an energy grip on the whole of Europe as it recently most eloquently demostrated (which it also augments with military threats, as seen in Ukraine).
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 01/13/2006 14:54 Comments || Top||

#34  Unfortunately, suppressing islamofascism is like kneading dough - you push down here, and it pops up over there. While Fred's assessment is excellent, there are a couple of points left out. Number one is the rise of islamofascist groups in southern Africa, from Kenya to the Congo, south to South Africa. There's also the rising arrogance of Sudan that needs to be dealt with. Somalia continues to be he$$ in a handbasket, although the northern portion seems to be developing quite well.

We also have to look at the Pentagon assessment that states the problem is Islam, not rogue elements. That really put the cat among the canaries. Now we know that either Islam must reform to accept the right of others to worship as they please, or it must be eradicated as a cancer that will destroy everyone's freedom. The United States has never fought a religious war before, but we're in the midst of one now, without accepting that fact. Iraq seems to be going in the right direction - a secular government that allows all religions to worship without fear, but still predominately a Muslim nation. Turkey was more or less the same, but we see that such secularism cannot be maintained in the face of strong religious aggression.

I would say that the current conditions are neither lull, haitus, or victory, but merely AQ shifting to another battle front. The victory won't be ours until there are no more fronts for AQ to shift to.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 01/13/2006 14:59 Comments || Top||

#35  The United States has never fought a religious war before, but we're in the midst of one now, without accepting that fact.

plain direct and elegant.
Posted by: Red Dog || 01/13/2006 15:03 Comments || Top||

#36  Now we know that either Islam must reform to accept the right of others to worship as they please, or it must be eradicated as a cancer that will destroy everyone's freedom.

Well, it can't be eradicated, so option b is definitely out. Even if you nuke into glass the whole of the Middle East (and presuming you could stomach such a "solution", which I can't), that still won't eradicate Islam. Even if you could create (which you can't) a global totalitarian state that pursues with hatred every single expression of Islamic belief, that's still not any more likely to succeed than the Roman emperors were in destroying Christianity.

So why don't we stop talking about the fairy fantasies that perhaps make some people look macho (or ridiculous, depending on perspective) but accomplish little else?

As for imposing a reformation upon Islam, how is that likely to happen either? As far as I know there has never yet been a successful external imposition of reform to a religion either. In truth the West treats the idea of religion (and thus the whole idea of blind faith) with too much respect for that to happen. If Christians have people preaching that contraception is a sin (and that religious concept must supposedly be respected rather than mocked and insulted to its face as an insult against people's reproductive and sexual freedom), how are you gonna convince Muslims that a woman revealing her hair or speaking to a man *isn't* a sin? We can't battle Islamic unreason with Western reason, because frankly the West suffers from too much unreason of its own.

So, with either imposed reform or imposed eradication being difficult-to-the-point-of-impossibility what else remains? The only thing that remains is something that has actually been accomplished already in several places: namely, the strict and absolute separation of mosque and state. Not a war of Christianity against Islam, not even a war of moderate Islam against strict Islam, but rather a war of secularism against the interference of religion in politics.

Christianity itself only truly reformed once it had been removed from secular power, with actions such as that of the French Revolution and the abolition of the Papal states.

Only *then* will Islam reform itself - if it finds itself bereft of secular power.

One good step would have been if the new Iraqi constitution had forbidden clerics to take political posts or maintain militias. The Iraqi constitution should also have placed *secularism* itself (not just "religious freedom") as being of the highest importance -- instead it declares that no law can violate the principles of Islam.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 01/13/2006 15:41 Comments || Top||

#37  Problem is, Aris, the Qu'ran doesn't have a phrase similar to this:

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.”

That's the justification in the Bible for separation of church and state. While we're all supposed to have faith in our hearts, the affairs of state may be managed without overt religious reference.

Islam doesn't have that, and considers secularism to be apostasy. I frankly don't see how your suggested remedy could be implemented.
Posted by: Steve White || 01/13/2006 16:17 Comments || Top||

#38  That's the justification in the Bible for separation of church and state.

Steve White, this "justification" was largely ignored for about 1800 years or so, until the Church was placed in a sufficiently weak (in secular terms) position that it was *forced* to care about it, because it had no other way.

That's my very point -- that the Christian church was eventually *forced* to embrace the separation of church and state.

Islam doesn't have that, and considers secularism to be apostasy. I frankly don't see how your suggested remedy could be implemented.

Remove clerics from power. The offensive against Iran should have started because the West can no longer tolerate religious regimes, not because we can not stand WMDs. Whenever a former regime is toppled, the new Constitution must pronounce secularism as a fundamental value or else Western aid and support will be immediately withdrawn from the new regime.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 01/13/2006 16:33 Comments || Top||

#39  I have U.S. money in my pocket that says "In God We Trust" on it. But that's the God that values individualists and women and children and says "Love thy neighbor". It's not the god of Islam ("submission") that values clerics, treats women and children as property, and says "Kill the infidels". My ancestors fought in the Crusades and then moved on to higher values. Islam is insisting on more crusades. If you don't believe that this is religious war, then you are not listening to the enemy. It's radical Islam against the world, and they'll tell you so.

Aris, Naziism can be snuffed out -- why can't radical Islam?
Posted by: Darrell || 01/13/2006 16:43 Comments || Top||

#40  You keep bringing up a false equivalency between Christianity and Islam in these discussions. A thought occured to me the last (or second or third to last) time before this you brought it up, but I wasn't able to talk about it, the thread had already expired by the time I got home.

The Fourth Crusade which sacked Byzantium was (for that and many other crimes) excommunicated by the Pope Innocent III.

But as far as I know, no Moslems were ever declared apostate by whoever the authorities of the day were for conquering Constantinople in 1453. In fact, as far as I can tell, by being the prevalent military power of the day in the Islamic World Mehmed was automatically the religious authority and beyond that sort of thing.

While I'm at it, I'd like to say that I find the Albigensian Crusade types here (and do I have to explain that phrase?) to be rather irritating. But at the same time I find your insistance that the conflict eventually breaks down into the good guys vs. the non-atheists just as stupid and naive as the people who say there are no "Moderate Moslems."
Posted by: Phil || 01/13/2006 16:53 Comments || Top||

#41  Or to put it another way, telling them their choices are between following Osama or joining the church of Richard Dawkins is going to produce the same wretched result that telling them their choices are between following Osama or the Pope will.
Posted by: Phil || 01/13/2006 16:59 Comments || Top||

#42  It is ingorant to imply that the Christian church was eventually *forced* to embrace the separation of church and state. The early Christian church was formed completely 100% outside of the Government. Christians who were caught being Christians were, with Government approval, thrown to lions for entertainment or were martyred.
Posted by: 2b || 01/13/2006 17:00 Comments || Top||

#43  I have U.S. money in my pocket that says "In God We Trust" on it. But that's the God that values individualists and women and children and says "Love thy neighbor".

Your second sentence indicates that you've made a moral judgment on your God's commands, rather than merely put your trust in him --- which is what any suicide bomber can do.

Do you truly believe in God issuing commands? And how can you convince another person that it's *your* perceived commands that God is issuing, and not the Quran's?

Aris, Naziism can be snuffed out -- why can't radical Islam?

Nazism wasn't snuffed out (no ideology can), it merely lost its hold on power with the fall of its promoting regimes (aka Nazi Germany and allies), which is what I say we do for Islamofascism also. Defeat the Islamofascist regimes.

Namely I'm arguing from moving the fight from the amorphous and impossible ("We need to reform Islam! No, we need to eradicate it!") to the specific and possible (combatting the Islamofascist regimes.)

Once Islamofascist regimes have been defeated, Islam will itself find its way to moderation. But to talk about combatting Islam as a whole is similar to starting arguments in 1939 about battling the whole of the idea of nationalism when it's specific Nazi regimes that are now launching their war.

Sure: Islamofascism sprang from Islam which sprang from theism, same as Nazism sprang from nationalism which sprang from tribalism (in the loose sense).

I think that all the above six are negatives. But first things comes first. To try and fight the amorphous and widespread, before fighting the acute and concentrated is to doom yourself to failure.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 01/13/2006 17:09 Comments || Top||

#44  The United States has never fought a religious war before, but we're in the midst of one now, without accepting that fact.

Let's see, 1940 we get into a war that Eisenhower called a "Crusade for Europe" to defeat the most evil man and regime in history, 1860 we get into a war that inspires "The Battle Hymn of the Republic", "As he died to make men holy, let us die to make men free." Before that 1780 the War of Independence didn't have an overtly religious theme, though slavery to KG was a big issue, 1700 King Phillip's War, proportionately the bloodiest war in American history against the heathen Indians, 1640, our colonial founders compatriots conduct a civil war with certain religious overtones in the old country.

I'd say we're about due for another religious war. The MMs should check our won-lost record in religious wars. See The Cousins' Wars: Religion, Politics, and the Triumph of Anglo-America
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 01/13/2006 17:09 Comments || Top||

#45  Phil, there are plenty of radical Moslems who would declare that there are no "Moderate Moslems" -- that Jordanian homicidal maniac in Iraq that is killing innocent Iraqi Moslems daily is one example and that equally insane Iranian president is yet another.
Posted by: Darrell || 01/13/2006 17:12 Comments || Top||

#46  It is ingorant to imply that the Christian church was eventually *forced* to embrace the separation of church and state. The early Christian church was formed completely 100% outside of the Government. Christians who were caught being Christians were, with Government approval, thrown to lions for entertainment or were martyred.

But once the Christian movement became powerful enough to take control of the state, they forgot all thoughts of separation of church and state. Christian Emperor Theodosius massacred thousands of polytheists for example.

My point remains that Christianity willingly separated itself from the state only in its weakness -- in its first infancy, and now in its old age.

The Fourth Crusade which sacked Byzantium was (for that and many other crimes) excommunicated by the Pope Innocent III.

Phil, so? The Pope may have excommunicated many people whose actions displeased him, but the question is whether the Church willingly abandoned secular power or whether it was forced to do so.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 01/13/2006 17:19 Comments || Top||

#47  Phil, there are plenty of radical Moslems who would declare that there are no "Moderate Moslems" -- that Jordanian homicidal maniac in Iraq that is killing innocent Iraqi Moslems daily is one example and that equally insane Iranian president is yet another.

And I hope you're not going to go to them for theological advice.
Posted by: Phil || 01/13/2006 17:25 Comments || Top||

#48  My point remains that Christianity willingly separated itself from the state only in its weakness -- in its first infancy, and now in its old age.

You're missing vast parts of the middle ages when the Church, although more powerful than today, was not an arm of the secular authority the way it was in the time of Theodosius. In fact, it wasn't until around 1500 or so that the pendulum swung back towards stronger intermingling of religious and secular authority, partly because of the Protestant Reformation; every two-bit kingling and dukedom between Austria and the Norwegian part of Lapland wanted its own little captive state-controlled church, and things went downhill from there... many of the large Catholic regimes of the time decided in reaction they needed authority over the branches of the Catholic Church in _their_ land to keep up.

A lot of people don't know that the Spanish Inquisition, for instance, was subordinate not to the Catholic Church but the Spanish Crown (which got the confiscated property of those declared apostate).

A lot of the Founders who helped establish formal separation-between-church-and-state in the US weren't "radical freethinking atheist Dawkinists" or anything of the sort, or adherents of Voltaire and Rousseau; a lot of them were Quakers or Congregationalists or Anglicans reacting against the excesses of Cromwell and the Puritans (not to be confused with the Pilgrims).
Posted by: Phil || 01/13/2006 17:55 Comments || Top||

#49  the excesses of Cromwell and the Puritans

and James and Charles and Mary and Henry and on and on.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 01/13/2006 18:16 Comments || Top||

#50  My point remains valid. Islam from its inception is the government. Christianity is not an institution, or a government, but a spiritual faith about the values of faith, hope, charity, forgiveness. Christianity, as taught by it's "founder" Christ, has zero, nil, nada interest in the government or controlling the lives of others - except to share the Gospel and a better way than live than is the normal human condition which, without being taught to the contrary will seek to deal with life's trials through blame, revenge, greed, etc.

That Churches have been abused through out history to collect followers and money has but has never had any relationship to Christianity itself.

Martin Luther King talked about civil rights. Many of the institutions claiming to be civil rights organizations today are corrupt. They are actually just vehicles to collect followers and money and have values that are the antithesis of Martin Luther's ideals. But the fact that some of them are corrupt does not mean that teaching the values of civil rights is the cause of their corruption.

You can point at some churches that had to be forced to separate church from state - but then they weren't really Christian churches, now were they?
Posted by: 2b || 01/13/2006 19:04 Comments || Top||

#51  antithesis of Martin Luther's KINGS ideals just to clarify.
Posted by: 2b || 01/13/2006 19:07 Comments || Top||

#52  I'll take military victory for $500, Alex...

Alex?

Alex, it's when a nation defeats its enemy in the field of battle.

I understand you're canadian, but come on, you've been living in the USA long enough to know the difference, right, Alex?

Alex?
Posted by: badanov || 01/13/2006 19:31 Comments || Top||

#53  Phil - great post.
Posted by: anon || 01/13/2006 23:45 Comments || Top||

#54  Yes, I agree. The democrats are a traitorous, treasonous, cowardly bunch who want to appease the enemy with their limpwristed legalistic approach to the WOT. We must hunt the enemy out
and kill them before they kill us.

The anti-Iraq war of rhetoric democratic leaders and that of the anti-war movement emboldens the enemy and is demoralizing our troops. These people are aiding and abetting the enemy.

President Bush is constitutionally correct to wiretap anyone in the U.S. who he believes has connections with to Al Qaeda. More than likely,
many within the Anti-Iraq War Movement have ties with terrorist organizations and are purposely
drumming up opposition to President Bush's GWOT
policies with the goal of weakening our resolve
to quit fighting before victory is achieved.

Yes, the Democrats, the Anti Iraq-War movment in the U.S. and the terrorist in Iraq should all be considered as one: The enemies of the U.S.
Posted by: Ray Gunn || 01/13/2006 10:01 Comments || Top||



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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.

Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.

Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has dominated Mexico for six years.
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Two weeks of WOT
Fri 2006-01-13
  Predators try for Zawahiri in Pak
Thu 2006-01-12
  Europeans Say Iran Talks Reach Dead End
Wed 2006-01-11
  Spain holds 20 'Iraq recruiters'
Tue 2006-01-10
  Leb army arrests four smuggling arms from North
Mon 2006-01-09
  IRGC ground forces commander killed in plane crash
Sun 2006-01-08
  Assad rejects UN interview request
Sat 2006-01-07
  Iran issues new threat to Europe
Fri 2006-01-06
  Ariel Sharon Not Dead Yet
Thu 2006-01-05
  Sharon 'may not recover'
Wed 2006-01-04
  Sharon suffers 'significant stroke'
Tue 2006-01-03
  Iraqi premier, Kurd leader strike deal
Mon 2006-01-02
  U.N. Seeks Interview With Assad
Sun 2006-01-01
  Syrian MPs: Try Khaddam for treason
Sat 2005-12-31
  Syrian VP resigns, sez Assad 'threatened' Hariri
Fri 2005-12-30
  Palestinians commandeer the Rafah crossing

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