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Missing soldiers found dead
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
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Britain
London mayor cleared of race slur
Ken Livingstone was yesterday cleared of allegations of anti-semitism. The Mayor of London had faced a three-month suspension after he told Jewish billionaires David and Simon Reuben to "go back to Iran and try their luck with the ayatollahs".

The comment was made in March in a row over the development of the 2012 Olympics site in East London, in which the brothers held a 50 per cent stake.

But yesterday's report by the Greater London Authority's standards committee found no evidence of anti-semitism and ruled the Mayor did not bring his office into disrepute. It said he had "reason to be strongly critical", had not known the brothers were Jewish and his criticism "was reasonable in the circumstances".

Mr Livingstone said yesterday: "The charge was ridiculous and I am glad it has been dismissed." He is fighting a month's suspension for likening a Jewish reporter to a Nazi concentration camp guard in a separate incident.
Posted by: ryuge || 06/20/2006 06:47 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  If he had been on the right this would not have beel let to pass. But the left can never be racist orbigoted. QED.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom || 06/20/2006 7:05 Comments || Top||

#2  "Go back to Africa and try your luck with Idi Amin." If this is racist, so is Mayor Livingstone.
Posted by: ed || 06/20/2006 7:18 Comments || Top||

#3  This is propaganda,or should I say, "public relations" damage control, at its finest. They make a big to-do about him being tried and acquitted on a weak charge that most of us think - yeah, whatever. Then at the very end of the article, we get to see what should be the big bold headline.

So now, when someone talks about how he's a racist - they dredge this up this episode and talk about how he was acquitted on that. These guys are good.
Posted by: 2b || 06/20/2006 11:14 Comments || Top||

#4  Liberal assholes can never be racist. Nope, can't happen, move along, nothing to see here.
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 06/20/2006 11:15 Comments || Top||

#5  Oh and its especially good cause he was aquitted fighting the big, bad, Jewish billionaires over a row on development which the brothers held a 50% stake. Soooo... extra points for making the victims non-sympathetic and getting the waft of Livingston fighting the zionist cabal. Well done!
Posted by: 2b || 06/20/2006 11:18 Comments || Top||

#6  MI-5, if they had 007 balls, should wetwork him.
Posted by: 3dc || 06/20/2006 13:48 Comments || Top||


China-Japan-Koreas
New From Doctor Kimmie
L'Chaim, Dear Leader!
Mmmmmmmmmmmm...magic North Korean water.
Pyongyang, June 19 (KCNA) -- Chongsaengsu good for health is being mass-produced in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. It is medicinal water which contains over 80 kinds of natural elements including Se and microelements.
...and take it from Dear Leader, it tastes great as a Courvoisser chaser!
The water promotes excretion of various kinds of organic and inorganic poisonous substances accumulated in the human body and thus to boost normal function of the internal organs and hemopoietic and endocrine system.
That's right! It makes you pee!
It also neutralizes poison by alcohol, chemical medicines, poisonous mushrooms, gas and pollution and increases the appetites.
Increases the appetites. What a great selling point in North Korea. Got anything that decreases the appetites?
It is applicable to the treatment of hepatitis, pancreatitis, gastroenteritis, diabetes, nephritis, pyelitis, hypertension, arteriosclerosis, myocarditis, myocardial infraction, leucopenia and cancerous diseases and the prevention from the radiation damage.
Yes, but is it efficacious?
In particular, the water helps the growth and intellectual development of children, raises their immunity function, makes the elders full of vigor and prevents aging.
Step right up, gramps! And bring up your pygmy grandson too...
Years of its clinical test shows special curing effect. The demand for the water, which was awarded a state patent, is on an ever increase.
Look for it soon at your local bomb shelter!
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/20/2006 11:39 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sounds exactly like the "Snake Oil" salesmen of the teens and twenties.
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 06/20/2006 17:14 Comments || Top||

#2  Se?
Sie!
Posted by: 6 || 06/20/2006 18:04 Comments || Top||

#3  oh jeebus. hez invenchened minnral water
Posted by: muck4doo || 06/20/2006 18:58 Comments || Top||

#4  "myocardial infraction"

LOL.
Posted by: Glalet Jineth9308 || 06/20/2006 19:02 Comments || Top||

#5  I take back everything bad I have ever said about the FDA.
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 06/20/2006 21:13 Comments || Top||


Europe
Insider Trading Scandal Adds To Airbus Crisis
Posted by: Ebbineper Ebbeaper1581 || 06/20/2006 01:55 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Business as usual at Airbus, in other words. It's a cultural thingy -- we should stop being so judgemental.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/20/2006 8:57 Comments || Top||


EU fights back in 'visa wars' with US
The European commission threatened to force US diplomats to apply for visas to work in parts of the EU on Monday, in retaliation for the refusal of Washington to allow visa-free access to the US to all EU citizens.

On the eve of a visit by George Bush to Europe, an internal commission paper warned of punitive steps. It said: "The only feasible retaliatory measure in the field of visa policy at this stage would be the introduction of visas for holders of diplomatic and official passports."
Hokay. Fine by us. You won't mind if we do the same, right?
Franco Frattini, the European justice commissioner, is understood to have told the US that the EU was prepared to impose restrictions unless EU citizens in eastern Europe were allowed into the US without visas. Travellers from all but one of the EU's new entrants have to apply for visas - only Slovenia is included in the visa waiver system.

Travellers from all but one of the EU-15, the union's members before the "big bang" expansion in 2004, are allowed to go to the US without visas. Only Greek citizens have to apply for visas.

A spokesman for the European commission said: "We hope that the visa waiver system is extended to all EU member states. The US's political recognition of the enlarged Europe should be recognised at a practical level."
So perhaps you could talk with us and help us with the problem we have with the current system, instead of the ticky-tack stuff.
Commission sources said they did not expect any change of heart by the US authorities, indicating that the "visa wars" may sour the atmosphere during a one-day EU/US summit in Vienna on Wednesday. Mr Bush hopes the summit will help to improve relations after disagreements over the Iraqi invasion.

One EU official said the US Congress appeared to be preparing to relax restrictions on Poland because its forces were supporting operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. "How many troops you have in Afghanistan and Iraq seems to decide visa policy," the official said.
It doesn't hurt.
US diplomats working in France, Greece and Spain already have to apply for visas. Any action would not apply to US diplomats in the UK, as Britain decides its own visa policy because it is not part of the border-free Schengen area of the EU.
Posted by: Steve White || 06/20/2006 00:45 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Make US Diplos get visas? Sure thing. Don't forget the sternly worded letter. We frame those and hang 'em in the basement party room.

We have to treat all EU "members", including those which were hijacked into the mess without a democratic vote, exactly the same, huh? That's your call, is it, who we require to get visas? Heh.
Posted by: Ebbineper Ebbeaper1581 || 06/20/2006 1:39 Comments || Top||

#2  UN PARKING TICKETS + Washington Embassy ones. Pay Now!
Posted by: 3dc || 06/20/2006 2:11 Comments || Top||

#3  You f**kin wankers want to start playing games ? We'll take our ball and head home. And y'all be headin' home too. Right quick.
Posted by: SOP35/Rat || 06/20/2006 2:16 Comments || Top||

#4  So, since I'm not really a diplomatic sort, what is the proper reply to this? Do we do the ol' "Brer Rabbit" thing and apply for the visas, or do we just say "No problem, dude!" and apply for the visas....while taking our sweet time to issue ones to EU bureaucrats?
Posted by: Desert Blondie || 06/20/2006 6:37 Comments || Top||

#5  Ima likin' the Japanese approach to unwanted produce. Just make sure your inspectors are, um, too busy to get to that shipment until it's all a-spoiled an rotten and such.

Sad, but them's the breaks, eh?

Fuck the EU, with barbed-wire dildoes as someone said so eloquently yesterday. Life sucks if you're EU, and then you die unimproved, still stinkin of EU-ness.
Posted by: Javimp Angerenter8610 || 06/20/2006 6:48 Comments || Top||

#6  Actually, the US should constantly revaluate visa regimes as the internation situation changes. The overriding concern is what is in the national interest to allow in the US.


US diplomats working in France, Greece and Spain already have to apply for visas.
This is great. The US should require visas for all people from these countries, reduce airline flights and increase trade tariffs. Trade and contacts are for friends, not enemies or even wannabe enemies. Quit playing the friendly goofball. You'll only get taken advantage of and despised in the process. Play hardball with a loaded bat.
Posted by: ed || 06/20/2006 7:09 Comments || Top||

#7  Hey, if the EU wants to act the sovereign, then so be it. Tell the EUssr that we'll do that as soon as they give up all seats in the UN except 1, that there will be no embassys in the US from Europe except 1, etc. etc.

They want to play in this league they have to play by the rules.
Posted by: AlanC || 06/20/2006 8:49 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Politix
Vehicle crossings more common at border
With windows tinted charcoal black and a hint of new-car smell lingering inside, the Chevy Suburban with California plates nearly made it through a border inspection booth. Then a customs officer spotted something behind the back seats.

Under the gray carpeting lay 14 undocumented Mexicans — eight women, five men and a little boy — packed together so tightly that some had to remove their shoes to fit.

They're part of a growing number of migrants sneaking across the border in cars and trucks. Some cram themselves into empty gas tanks, hollowed-out dashboards and even engines. Others hide inside cargo, from pinatas to washing machines.
Rest at link.
Posted by: ed || 06/20/2006 07:33 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  In other words, the Minutemen and increased Border Patrol vigilance is having an effect. Btw, I saw a small article a few days ago that the first section of fence that the Minutemen started building has run out of volunteer workers, and they've had to hire professionals to finish the work. Much more expensive than planned, of course, but at least it will be done properly.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/20/2006 9:04 Comments || Top||

#2  Around here, when you need a fence built on the cheap, you hire Mexicans. That would work.
Posted by: wxjames || 06/20/2006 9:32 Comments || Top||

#3  Sorta like having your kid program your V-chip tv and recorder to block adult programming because you can't figure out the instructions.
Posted by: Whereling Whish1824 || 06/20/2006 9:56 Comments || Top||

#4  The penalty for illegal immigration should be 12 months hard labor building a wall.
Posted by: usmc6743 || 06/20/2006 12:20 Comments || Top||

#5  #4 The penalty for illegal immigration should be 12 months hard labor building a wall.
Posted by: usmc6743 2006-06-20 12:20


Bloody HELL! I'd pay them a union wage, time and a half for overtime, provide meals, temper-tent, showers, cots and lenins, TV, ice cream, iced down Carona just BUILD THE DAMN THING!
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/20/2006 12:33 Comments || Top||

#6  Build it, and they will stop.
Posted by: 6 || 06/20/2006 18:29 Comments || Top||


Poll: Clinton gets high 'no' vote for 2008

Respondents also ranked who they were likely to vote for

With the presidential election more than two years away, a CNN poll released Monday suggests that nearly half of Americans would "definitely vote against" Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Respondents were asked whether they would "definitely vote for," "consider voting for," or "definitely vote against" three Democrats and three Republicans who might run for president in 2008.

Regarding potential Democratic candidates, 47 percent of respondents said they would "definitely vote against" both Clinton, the junior senator from New York who is running for re-election this year, and Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts, the party's candidate in 2004. (Poll)

Forty-eight percent said the same of former Vice President Al Gore, who has repeatedly denied he intends to run again for president.

Among the Republicans, Sen. John McCain of Arizona and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani fared better than the Democrats, and Florida Gov. Jeb Bush fared worse.

Only 30 percent said they would "definitely vote against" Giuliani; 34 percent said that of McCain.

As for Bush, brother of the current president, 63 percent said there was no way he would get their vote. The younger Bush has denied interest in running for president in 2008.

Among all choices, Clinton had the highest positive number; of those polled, 22 percent said they would "definitely vote for" her.

Giuliani was next with 19 percent, followed by Gore with 17 percent, Kerry with 14 percent, McCain with 12 percent and Bush at 9 percent.

This telephone poll of 1,001 adult Americans was conducted June 1-6 by Harris Interactive for CNN. The poll had a sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
Posted by: ryuge || 06/20/2006 06:50 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Gore and Kerry in '08 = ExcitementPalooza
Posted by: Raj || 06/20/2006 7:24 Comments || Top||

#2  I think the Clinton/Kerry ticket is a winning combination.
Posted by: DarthVader || 06/20/2006 8:15 Comments || Top||

#3  Ah, I always knew Dath Vader was eviiil!
Posted by: Unock Angaper4671 || 06/20/2006 8:33 Comments || Top||

#4  Kerry was on Imus this morning (sounding close to sane, even)...and Imus played him into commercial with "You Can Call Me Al"

Hmmm, thought I.
Posted by: Seafarious || 06/20/2006 8:43 Comments || Top||

#5  that gore has higher neg than Clinton, is significant, since the Kossacks will be claiming that hes more electable. That Kerry had just as high a neg as Clinton is hardly surprising.

I wonder if McCains negs were mainly Republicans?
Posted by: liberalhawk || 06/20/2006 9:21 Comments || Top||

#6  they have NO one.
NO one
Posted by: bk || 06/20/2006 11:03 Comments || Top||

#7  This isn't really a very telling stat - since they asked "respondents". It would be more meaningful if they had asked those who consider themselves democrats. 100% of conservatives hate her.
Posted by: 2b || 06/20/2006 11:08 Comments || Top||

#8  Nearly half of Americans would vote against Killary Clinton.

I'm sure the Hilldabeast wouldn't let that stop her.
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 06/20/2006 11:10 Comments || Top||

#9  KUCINICH/SHARPTON 2008
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/20/2006 11:30 Comments || Top||

#10  McCain/Murtha in 08
Posted by: wxjames || 06/20/2006 12:32 Comments || Top||

#11  It'll be a new face. Dems never do well with the heir apparent. Think Carter and Clinton - unknown southern governors no one had ever heard of.
Posted by: Iblis || 06/20/2006 12:33 Comments || Top||

#12  The Hilderbeast and Rev AL.... an unbeatable combo. Mad Murtha the crazed Marine can be the SECDEF! Jimmah Carter can be SEC State, NO Nagin can head up FEMA.... I'll begin working on the rest of the nominees.
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/20/2006 12:37 Comments || Top||

#13 
My $$$'s are on the Sharpton/Farrakhan ticket.

8-)

EU
Posted by: Elminerong Uloque4172 || 06/20/2006 14:30 Comments || Top||

#14  wonder if McCains negs were mainly Republicans?

I have nothing except a huge hunch. Yep. I'll vote for Hillary b4 McCain. He's damn crazy.

Posted by: 6 || 06/20/2006 18:32 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
Pakistani Confesses, Then Is Shot Dead
LAHORE, Pakistan (AP) -- A Pakistan man killed his three young daughters Tuesday before confessing to police, prompting one officer to shoot him dead, an investigator said. Mohammed Ashraf, 38, used a knife to cut the throats of his daughters aged 3, 5 and 9 before dawn in the eastern city of Lahore, said senior police investigator Amir Zulifquar. Ashraf then went to a police station to report his crime, and was charged with murdering his daughters and placed in a cell.

"As I left the police station after questioning Mohammed Ashraf, one of my guards opened fire and killed him," Zulifquar said.
I'd buy him a beer, but he'd most likely refuse.
The policeman who shot Ashraf was identified as Mohammed Nadeem and was taken into custody, Zulifquar said. Nadeem told investigators that he killed Ashraf to "eliminate an animal from society," according to Zulifquar. "A person who kills innocent children deserves no mercy," Zulifquar quoted Nadeem as saying.
I like this guy
Before his killing, Ashraf told police that he was jobless and had killed his daughters because of poverty, Zulifquar said. Ashraf's wife Sughran Bibi told reporters that she didn't hear her daughters' cries and that her husband had woken her up after "committing the heinous crime for which I will never forgive him."

Nadeem, the policeman, will face court for a ruling on whether he should be charged with murder or not, Zulifquar said. No date has been set for when he will appear in court. If convicted, he faces the death penalty.
Posted by: Steve || 06/20/2006 13:04 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  bad cases make bad law.

And Pakiland has enough bad law.

If they dont learn to put even scum of the earth on trial in a court of law, theyre gonna remain pakiwakiland forever.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 06/20/2006 13:39 Comments || Top||

#2  But they knew this... the Moguls had courts, as did the British Raj. It was never permissible for "police" (whatever they were called) to summarily kill someone.

When the British left, there was a legacy of English jurisprudence and independent courts, a working civil administration, efficient police, a non-political army obedient to the civil administration.

Posted by: john || 06/20/2006 14:27 Comments || Top||

#3  It will be interesting to see if this gets much play in the Pakistan media. That is, will there be cries that the officer was right, and that murdering children is a horrible crime; or will he be roundly damned for interfering with the father trying to restore his "family honor."
Posted by: Anonymoose || 06/20/2006 14:31 Comments || Top||

#4  Cost-effective justice has worked before.

Posted by: doc || 06/20/2006 17:35 Comments || Top||


Man kills daughters, shot dead
A PAKISTAN man killed his three young daughters before confessing to police, prompting one officer to shoot him dead, an investigator said.
Mohammed Ashraf, 38, used a knife to cut the throats of his daughters, aged 3, 5 and 9, before dawn in the eastern city of Lahore, said senior police investigator Amir Zulifquar.

Ashraf then went to a police station to report his crime, and was charged with murdering his daughters and placed in a cell.

"As I left the police station after questioning Mohammed Ashraf, one of my guards opened fire and killed him," Mr Zulifquar said.

The policeman who shot Ashraf was immediately taken into custody.
It was unclear whether he had been charged.
Posted by: tipper || 06/20/2006 10:23 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Littering?
Posted by: Perfesser || 06/20/2006 10:41 Comments || Top||

#2  Honor killing?
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 06/20/2006 11:12 Comments || Top||

#3  No, a cop who has had it up.to.here. with women missing noses and covered in acid burns ...
Posted by: Seafarious || 06/20/2006 11:15 Comments || Top||

#4  Give that man a promotion.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 06/20/2006 12:06 Comments || Top||

#5  A PAKISTAN man killed his three young daughters before confessing to police, prompting one officer to shoot him dead, an investigator said.

FYI, Paki police inspector/shootist.....the New Orleans Police Department is an equal employment opportunity employer and is looking for a few good men.

Posted by: Besoeker || 06/20/2006 12:17 Comments || Top||

#6  Boy, I'd send money for the cop's defense if I could.
Posted by: anonymous2u || 06/20/2006 13:57 Comments || Top||


International-UN-NGOs
New UN rights body
The United Nations' new human rights body, the Human Rights Council, begins its inaugural session today under close scrutiny to see if it does more to protect fundamental freedoms than its discredited predecessor. UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan will attend the launch. Much of the initial two-week session of the 47-state body will be devoted to planning future work, but its chairman ambassador Luis Alfonso de Alba of Mexico has set aside time for examining current rights crises around the world.
Posted by: Fred || 06/20/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "I call this meeting to order"
"I think we should meet again"
"All in favor say Ay!"
"Motion is carried, we will reconvene next month."
"Meeting is adjourned, where's the nearest bar?"
Posted by: bigjim-ky || 06/20/2006 11:19 Comments || Top||

#2  New UN rights body

It's already starting to smell.
Posted by: Xbalanke || 06/20/2006 16:14 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine-Jordan
AP still weeping for Paleo's broken heart
Same story from yesterday, now with 20% more framed Quranic scripture on the wall!
Posted by: Seafarious || 06/20/2006 13:32 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Actually what this Paleo p***k wanted was a green card and he found a girl naive and stupid enough to get one for him. His plan was to marry the girl, move to Hamtrammack, drop two or three anchor babies, buy a grocery store, routinely remit money to Hamas and friends. Oh and routinely beat the stupid wife. His family is upset because they can't tag onto him for green cards either.
Posted by: RWV || 06/20/2006 16:27 Comments || Top||

#2  When I realized she wasn't coming, I felt my whole world collapse... Tough shit buddy. Life's a bitch sometimes.
Posted by: ????? || 06/20/2006 16:31 Comments || Top||

#3  This would make a great episode of that Nightline(?), To Catch A Predator.
Posted by: 2b || 06/20/2006 20:03 Comments || Top||

#4  Nothing a Cat can't fix.
Posted by: Darrell || 06/20/2006 21:27 Comments || Top||


Science & Technology
Microsoft To Make Robot OS
Microsoft released the preview version of a software toolkit for building robot applications today, pledging to ignite the robot market in the same way it did the PC market some 20 years ago.

The software maker sees robotics as being on the verge of a rapid take-off, fuelled by the availability of cheap, high-performance hardware components. But the market is being held back by a need for better tools and a common software platform that will let applications be reused on different types of robots, according to Microsoft.

Enter its Robotics Studio, a package of tools and runtime software that the company will demonstrate Tuesday at the RoboBusiness conference in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. A technical preview of the software is available now for free download. It is aimed at all types of robot builders, from commercial users to academics and hobbyists.

The company will also announce that it is funding a new robotics center at Carnegie Melon University, due to open late this year. It didn't disclose the size of its investment.
Vote of Confidence

Microsoft's entry to the field is a vote of confidence that could accelerate the development of robots for industrial, service, and entertainment use. It's not the first company to make such a play, however: Among the software platforms available, rival Sun Microsystems has long promoted its Java software for developing robot applications.

Microsoft's platform appears to be for robots that either run Windows or act as clients connected to Windows PCs, according to its robotics Web site. It will provide technical information so that other software and hardware vendors can make their products compatible with its tools, it said.

Microsoft Robotics Studio includes a software runtime, or execution environment, that can run in a variety of devices with hardware ranging from 8-bit processors up to 32-bit systems with multicore processors. It also includes visual programming tools for creating and debugging applications.

The tools include a handful of software libraries and services, but Microsoft is counting on third parties to flesh these out and extend its platform, it said. Programs can be developed using the languages in Microsoft's Visual Studio and Visual Studio Express products--C# and Visual Basic.Net--as well as its JScript and Iron Python languages.

The software released Tuesday isn't ready yet for commercial use, Microsoft said, and it didn't offer a timetable for shipping the final product. Technical previews are typically used to gather feedback that's used to refine the product before it's finalized.

Tandy Trower, the general manager of Microsoft's robotics group, likened the state of the robotics industry to that of the PC industry in its early days. Among the problems: hardware is fragmented, applications aren't portable and good development tools are missing, he wrote on Microsoft's Web site.

Microsoft hopes that by providing a common software platform for robots, and encouraging third parties to create compatible applications and tools, it will be able to grow the industry much as its ubiquitous Windows operating did for PCs.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 06/20/2006 15:20 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Microsoft? So the Terminator movies were right...
Posted by: Iblis || 06/20/2006 15:54 Comments || Top||

#2  Bah. If you had MS products running, say, your robo-vacuum cleaner it would ask you four times if you REALLY, REALLY want to vacuum the rug before actually starting to do it, then freeze every 3 meters or so. No thanks.
Posted by: Jonathan || 06/20/2006 16:06 Comments || Top||

#3  Should give a new meaning to OS crashes.
Posted by: RWV || 06/20/2006 16:22 Comments || Top||

#4  Can't wait to see the effect of viruses on robots.
Posted by: Perfesser || 06/20/2006 16:48 Comments || Top||

#5  DUM 1.01a

discreet unit market
Vocabulary limited to 640 words plus 360 cussers not accessible by Mod 1.
Posted by: 6 || 06/20/2006 18:38 Comments || Top||

#6  Memo to self: don't install the Self-Awareness module. No good can come of it.
Posted by: WhiteCollarRedneck || 06/20/2006 21:06 Comments || Top||

#7  Anybody want a Ro-Bob?
Posted by: Darrell || 06/20/2006 21:24 Comments || Top||

#8  Hey bill where's my fuckin laws Argghhhhh!
Posted by: Asimov || 06/20/2006 22:01 Comments || Top||

#9 
When they have Cherry2000 with real...ahem Plug and Play, they can give me a call.

-M
Posted by: Manolo || 06/20/2006 22:22 Comments || Top||

#10  Practically speaking, "house robots" will probably have their 'brains' subdivided into three parts, analogous to the human brain, except that its mid- and upper-brain won't be in the robot's body.

It's "primitive" brain will be inside the robot. It will handle I/O, movement, navigation, and hardware diagnostics and monitoring. This is more than enough to use 100% of its resources.

The "midbrain" will be elsewhere in the house, something like a very powerful personal computer dedicated to running the robot. It will WIFI with the robot. When you talk to the robot and it talks back, this will usually be the brain you talk to.

The midbrain will interpret what the robots sensors read, it will identify objects by size, shape, color, and purpose. It will know how to move objects, including the robot, safely and to a purposeful end. It will also control all safety functions, so that the robot does not damage other things or itself. It will also perform mapping functions of its environment, so it will "know" where it is, has been, and is going.

Its upper brain will be available by high-speed Internet. The midbrain AI will interact with most likely a supercomputer AI, so that "learning" will be cumulative with all robots plugged into the system. When a human teaches the robot a new "trick", all robots will have that trick available to them as a situational alternative.

The upper brain will at first be like a massive product support staff, with lots of people checking what it is learning, giving it firm rules and flexible rules. Eventually it will have so many possibilities programmed in that fewer and fewer checks will be needed, of situations so unusual that a robot needs additional instruction and judgement before acting.

Ideally, robot brain evolution will be something like distributed computing. Since most tasks are fairly rote, once their variables are hashed out, the robot upper brain can move on, not having to re-learn the basics again.

Midbrains will have to adapt to new situations, like being put in a new house, but should eventually be able to figure most of it out with a tour like you would give a stranger visiting your house.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 06/20/2006 23:20 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
U.S. Competes With China for Vietnam's Allegiance
Posted by: tipper || 06/20/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Even pro-China/Chicom mil blogers admit that China STILL is steadily intensifying its level of milfors to its South, positioning the PLA to come up against either VIETNAM andor TAIWAN!?
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 06/20/2006 5:18 Comments || Top||

#2  New meaning to the term "Vietnamization."
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/20/2006 11:04 Comments || Top||

#3  China hasn't got a prayer. The Vietnamese have been fighting with them for a thousand years.
Posted by: mojo || 06/20/2006 13:05 Comments || Top||

#4  At one time in the distant past, a Chinese ethnic had a kingdom that included the area around modern Hanoi. That makes Hanoi and the surrounding countryside part of China, according to certain of the Chinese historical revisionists. The Chinese make the Muslims look like pikers when it comes to "We owned it for a minute, therefore it is ours for eternity" claims. All of which plays into Hanoi's/Politburo's fears of China, and gives the US an edge in the regional competition.
Posted by: Shieldwolf || 06/20/2006 18:25 Comments || Top||


Manila arrests two alleged coup leaders
Philippine soldiers and police have arrested two of the alleged masterminds of a failed 2003 coup in separate raids in Manila, an army spokesman official said yesterday. Colonel Tristan Kison said retired Colonels Romeo Lazo and Virgilio Briones, leaders of the right-wing group Guardians Brotherhood, were caught in the suburb of Quezon City on Saturday.

"They did not resist arrest," Kison said, adding that they were taken to a central Manila police camp for questioning. Lazo and Briones had a 500,000-peso ($9,600) bounty on their heads after the justice department filed rebellion charges in February against them and five other retired soldiers, including ex-colonel Gregorio Honasan, a former senator. They were accused of inciting 300 soldiers to take over high-rise apartments in Manila's financial district in an attempt to force President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo to step down.
Posted by: Fred || 06/20/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  hmmmmmmm
Posted by: bk || 06/20/2006 10:47 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Culture Wars
Dan Rather Leaves See-BS
Dan Rather, the hard-charging anchorman who dominated CBS News for more than two decades but whose final months were clouded by incredibly bad judgment a discredited story on the president’s military service, is leaving CBS after 44 years, the network announced Tuesday.
Nah nah nah-nah, nah nah nah-nah, hey hey, goodbye!
The 74-year-old Rather has complained of being virtually forgotten at CBS Corp. since his exit as anchor last year, six months after the story on President Bush’s military service aired. He has said he is considering an offer to do a weekly show at the HDNet high-definition network. That network....hmm....what's the frequency, Kenneth?

“There will always be a part of Dan Rather at CBS News,” said Sean McManus, CBS News president. “He is truly a ‘reporter’s reporter,’ and he has helped to train several generations of broadcast journalists. His legacy cannot be replicated." No kidding.

Rather said that his departure before the end of his contract represented CBS’ acknowledgment, “after a protracted struggle, that they had not lived up to their obligation to allow me to do substantive work there.” Considering the beating the "Tiffany Network" took from your Bush Derangement Syndrome and sloppy verification, that's understandable...

“It isn’t in me to sit around doing nothing,” he said. “So I will do the work I love elsewhere, and I look forward to sharing details about that soon.” Oh, goody, can he tag team with Bill Moyers??

McManus, in an interview, would not discuss details of what CBS had offered Rather. He said it had become clear that CBS and Rather would not be able to agree on a role that satisfied both parties.

“It was obviously very difficult because I have enormous respect for what Dan has brought to CBS News and what he meant to CBS News, but I had to make the tough decision of what direction in which to go, and this is what I chose,” he said.

Rather, whose final CBS News report aired on “CBS Sunday Morning” last weekend, will be the subject of a prime-time special on his career next fall, CBS said. Aww, cheer up, Dan! You'll at least get to see your eulogy before you die...

The network also said it had made a contribution to Rather’s alma mater, Sam Houston State University. "Here's $5. We DO want a receipt!"

The Texan has worked at CBS News since 1962, covering stories ranging from the Kennedy assassination to the 2001 terrorist attacks. He was the “CBS Evening News” anchor who replaced Walter Cronkite in 1981 until signing off with the admonition “courage” on March 9, 2005.

Rather apparently hadn’t even seen the report questioning Bush’s Vietnam-era National Guard service before introducing it on the air in September 2004. When CBS News couldn’t substantiate the story following questions about its sources, Rather became a symbol of the incident even as he escaped official blame.

Since then, Rather’s on-air appearances have been infrequent. He contributed eight stories to “60 Minutes” this season, about half the airtime of most full-time correspondents there. His most recent “60 Minutes” story, a profile of Whole Foods Market, aired June 4.

In interviews last week, Rather made clear the professional divorce was imminent. Rather said CBS had offered him an office but no real assignments.

For more than two decades, Rather dominated broadcast news along with NBC’s Tom Brokaw and the late Peter Jennings of ABC. They were the faces seen every evening and whenever big news broke.

Rather always considered himself a reporter first, and the habit of news anchors to travel to the scenes of big stories is largely his legacy. His interview with Saddam Hussein in 2003 was the last given by the Iraqi leader before he was toppled.

With his intense on-air demeanor, Rather also had his detractors, and his broadcast was a distant third in the evening news ratings at the time he stepped down. CBS News’ ratings have rebounded under short-term successor Bob Schieffer; Katie Couric will take over the broadcast in September.
Posted by: Desert Blondie || 06/20/2006 16:33 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  “There will always be a part of Dan Rather at CBS News,”

We've tried every cleaning product we can find, but nothing seems to work.
Posted by: Jonter Shavith2086 || 06/20/2006 17:19 Comments || Top||

#2  "He is truly a ‘reporter’s reporter,’ and he has helped to train several generations of broadcast journalists."

Thanks a lot, Dan. FOAD.

Posted by: Dave D. || 06/20/2006 17:50 Comments || Top||

#3  Cold 2086, damn cold.
Be proud.
Posted by: 6 || 06/20/2006 18:06 Comments || Top||

#4  Sam Houston State University?
I thought it was Sam Houston Institute of Technology
Posted by: GK || 06/20/2006 19:17 Comments || Top||

#5  "Rather’s alma mater, Sam Houston State University"

Hear that sound? That's my very distant cousin Sam spinning in his grave.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 06/20/2006 19:29 Comments || Top||

#6  Just heard on Fox (I think) that Mr. Dan has been paid something like over 200 million dollars in his "reporting" of the news. And his legency will always be, "Fake but accurate."
Posted by: Sherry || 06/20/2006 21:51 Comments || Top||

#7  Dan, at least we'll always have Paris Austin TANG memories
Posted by: Lucy Ramirez || 06/20/2006 22:01 Comments || Top||


Presbyterians Think Of Changing 'Father, Son, Holy Spirit'
The divine Trinity -- "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- could also be known as "Mother, Child and Womb" or "Rock, Redeemer, Friend" at some Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) services under an action Monday by the church's national assembly.
Or "rock, paper, scissors."
Delegates to the meeting voted to "receive" a policy paper on gender-inclusive language for the Trinity, a step short of approving it. That means church officials can propose experimental liturgies with alternative phrasings for the Trinity, but congregations won't be required to use them. "This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership," legislative committee chair Nancy Olthoff, an Iowa laywoman, said during Monday's debate on the Trinity.
"The Unitarians can do it. Why can't we?"
The assembly narrowly defeated a conservative bid to refer the paper back for further study. A panel that worked on the issue since 2000 said the classical language for the Trinity should still be used, but added that Presbyterians also should seek "fresh ways to speak of the mystery of the triune God" to "expand the church's vocabulary of praise and wonder." One reason is that language limited to the Father and Son "has been used to support the idea that God is male and that men are superior to women," the panel said. Conservatives responded that the church should stick close to the way God is named in the Bible and noted that Jesus' most famous prayer was addressed to "Our Father."
John Knox was unavailable for comment.
Posted by: Fred || 06/20/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Words fail. Another demonstration of why the mainline protestant denominations are in decline. How politically correct can the church become before it ceases to be Christian and becomes an irrelevant social club? This sort of nonsense is why Christianity is under attack in the West,it doesn't fight back.
Posted by: RWV || 06/20/2006 0:28 Comments || Top||

#2  "amphibian, entropy, bicycle" said Joe Biden, the town idiot. He was immediately annointed Bishop, until it was discovered he'd stolen the phrase from "Patches" Kennedy, a true town idiot from an adjoining Dem hotbed
Posted by: Frank G || 06/20/2006 0:34 Comments || Top||

#3  What? Not even honorable mention?

Sincerely,

Jesus
Posted by: Captain America || 06/20/2006 0:35 Comments || Top||

#4  bleah - the reason why I don't go to Presbyterian, Methodist or any of the other main churches anymore. Between their disinvestment in Israel and more importantly their disinvestment in Christ - no reason to waste time and money just to hear the latest Democratic talking points. Lots of Spirituality going on in those churches - just not any Christianity.
Posted by: 2b || 06/20/2006 0:38 Comments || Top||

#5  I became a Catholic as a young adult. One of the advantages, I've found, is that there's a certain comfort in having had 2,000 years of theological arguments. The Church knows what it is and why it's here.
Posted by: Steve White || 06/20/2006 0:58 Comments || Top||

#6  This has got Rantburg Contest(TM) written all over it.

My suggestion: Judge, Jury and Executioner.
Posted by: Tibor || 06/20/2006 1:44 Comments || Top||

#7  In the end times, Christ will be knocking on the door of churches from the outside, churches run by false prophets and anti-Christs...
Posted by: Gromosh Elminegum5705 || 06/20/2006 2:08 Comments || Top||

#8  GE...you are so right. A major portion of the Apocrypha deals with the 'False Church". I've spent my entire life attending my local FUMC. After the divestment debacle. I lost interest. Since then it's turned to disgust. Plenty of other congregations out there that "get it", and they seem to be well attended.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 06/20/2006 3:09 Comments || Top||

#9  What I find amazing is the sheer number of mainline Protestant churches that seem intent on commiting theological suicide. If you cannot even address the basics of Christianity : the divinity of Christ, the Holy Trinity, and the basic Biblical wording, how can you continue to call yourself Christian? And furthermore, why would you bother to? If the root basis of Christianity is so repellent to you, why not simply leave? Sometimes, the warnings that Jesus gave the Pharisees about their empty public displays of religiosity seem to fairly scream for these churches.
Posted by: Shieldwolf || 06/20/2006 3:30 Comments || Top||

#10  "God is male" > besides the fact that both Christ and Mother Mary refer to God as "He", i.e. in the masculine, the Big Kahuna, Not "He-She", "She",
"It", "We" or other. Works for me.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 06/20/2006 3:43 Comments || Top||

#11  Why not "Democracy, Whiskey, Sexy"?
Posted by: Desert Blondie || 06/20/2006 6:44 Comments || Top||

#12  Whoops, forgot to add something.

If the whole idea is to have gender-inclusive speech, and they had to include a body part to do it, why did they use one that men don't have?

It's not like when Christ was on the cross and ready to breathe his last, he uttered something like "Father, unto you I commend my womb"! (True, I wasn't there, but I'll take a wild guess and say he said nothing of the kind.....)

If they are going to be this silly, how about using a body part we all share, like "Mother, Child, Pancreas"?
Posted by: Desert Blondie || 06/20/2006 7:18 Comments || Top||

#13  I prefer "Big Daddy, Junior, and the Spook" myself.
Posted by: Darth VAda || 06/20/2006 7:22 Comments || Top||

#14  Eenie, Meenie, Minie, Mo. Pick a spirit by the ...
Posted by: ed || 06/20/2006 7:22 Comments || Top||

#15  Why not "Democracy, Whiskey, Sexy"?

That's what my church holds to!

(Well, that and the fourth coming of Cthulhu. But we try not to talk about that too much.)
Posted by: Rob Crawford || 06/20/2006 7:23 Comments || Top||

#16  Ah, the adorable ignorance of the pseudo-intellectual! Of course the Church originally referred to the Triune God in masculine form; all the languages used at the time -- Aramaic (the language Jesus would have used for everyday conversation), Greek (the other language Jesus would have used, for commerce in his carpentry business), even Latin (the main language of many of the Roman troops)-- were masculine-default, so that the masculine form was used whenever the subject wasn't specifically feminine. Reasonably intelligent people realize this does not imply a sexual identity unless specified, although for the sake of argument I'm willing to concede that Jesus was, indeed, male. Parent, Child, Holy Spirit is the proper neuter form, although not terribly evocative in its bare bones formulation. *shrug* Perhaps they should try alternating masculine and feminine forms in alternate prayers, or go with the all-inclusive Father/Mother/Parental Hermaphrodite, Daughter/Son/Undefined Offspring, Holy Spirit/Ghost/Other We Don't Quite Grasp... although that would nearly double the length of the service.

As for that womb thingy -- ick. There are things I'd prefer not to think about, especially when celebrating the wonderfulness of Creation and all.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/20/2006 7:50 Comments || Top||

#17  How about "Rum, Romanism, and rebellion."

Rum -- adult beverages, the consumption of which He specifically approves.

Romanism -- as in Roman Catholic Church

rebellion -- Christianity is countercultural, it rebels against worldly things. Luke 12:15-23
Posted by: Mike || 06/20/2006 7:57 Comments || Top||

#18  Tinker, Evers, Chance
Posted by: Seafarious || 06/20/2006 8:40 Comments || Top||

#19  And here you have, in a nutshell, why I don't believe in ANY religion made of man.

If there is a God, (I don't know), he/she/it can speak directly to me. Until that time I will put no faith in some bozo's imagination and drive for power, glory, money or whatever other reason they really have.

If there is 1 true religion, it was true 2000 years ago and it is true today, no changes needed. But there wasn't then and isn't now.
Posted by: AlanC || 06/20/2006 8:57 Comments || Top||

#20  I kind of like "The Daddyo, The Laddyo, and the Spook.
Posted by: Deacon Blues || 06/20/2006 9:25 Comments || Top||

#21  "Shampoo, Rinse, Repeat"...
Posted by: tu3031 || 06/20/2006 9:27 Comments || Top||

#22  My synagogue is providing a temporary home to a local Presby church whose building is being renovated (they did the same for us a few years ago) I dont care what they call the trinity, but I very much hope they join with those congregations opposing divestment from Israel. We are not giving them political tirades, but just being hospitable. Though if they look at our bulletin boards with event listings, they might learn something about how faith and peoplehood are interwoven for us, and how much Israel means to us.

My kids reaction when we were there on a Sunday, and passed outside the sanctuary - "Its so quiet, theres no one talking in the lobby" :)
Posted by: liberalhawk || 06/20/2006 9:28 Comments || Top||

#23  TW - thats true for Hebrew too, and my rabbi once gave a great sermon on why we would go with gender neutral instances in SOME places where it flowed naturally (using the name G-d instead of the pronoun "he" wherever possible) but would keep the masculine language where gender neutral language focused ones mind on gender rather than the content of the prayer, or was seriously misleading about the Hebrew (which we do not change - at least not at my synagogue - though our prayerbook DOES include an alternative formulation of the amidah - instead of the traditional G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you can say (silently) G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah)

In any case we have fully egalitarian participation in all aspects of the service, which is a big deal in traditional Judaism, and is more important than the gender neutral language, I think.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 06/20/2006 9:36 Comments || Top||

#24  "Moe, Larry, and Curly!" (and sometimes Shemp...)
Posted by: borgboy || 06/20/2006 10:00 Comments || Top||

#25  Jesus used the trinity to teach about God and God's relationship to humanity. I believe God is the source, while the Holy Spirit is the living force within a human. The Son of God would be the connection between the two. Therefore, The divine source, the state of grace, and the aura.
Jesus had achieved the state of grace and he referred to himself as the Son of God. His intention was to share the state of grace with his apostles and establish the necessary standards for them to continue the sharing of grace throughout the ascent of man.
Furthermore, man failed to grasp these subtle teachings and today's religions are mere pompus institutions. They use dedicated routine and refer to the bible, but any connection with the state of grace is purely accidental.
Because of the nature of the state of grace, it would be quite impossible for a priest to be a pedofile. Yet, today, the church has grown so far from it's original intentions, anything is possible within.

I will try to answer any questions you may have.
Posted by: wxjames || 06/20/2006 10:07 Comments || Top||

#26  "Hinckle, Dinkle, and Nod"
"Nick, Mike, and Mustard"
"Pooh, Piglet, and Eeyore"
"Gog, Magog, and Eggnog"
"Groucho, Chico, and Harpo"
"Borg, Cardassian, and Dominion"
"Earth, Air, and Water" (not Fire. "Fire baaad!")
"Bring the troops home, Impeach Bush, Elect Hillary"
Posted by: Anonymoose || 06/20/2006 10:48 Comments || Top||

#27  Yet another daily news item apparently plucked from the pages of ScrappleFace. Is it a sign of Impending OldFartdom that you can remember when the Methodists and Presbyterians were the sensible shoes of religious denominations? Personally, I hope they go with the "rock, paper, scissors" thing. It has a certain New Age Zen Trinity flavor.

Anyone for the Church of the SubGenius? At least those guys have a sense of humor. Praise "Bob".
Posted by: SteveS || 06/20/2006 10:52 Comments || Top||

#28  the Great Spirit of the aboriginal North Americans
best describes it. It's also a private matter.
Goons openly discuss it like they have some kind of divine insight. They fail to remember that humans are "just" animals like all the other animals.
Posted by: bk || 06/20/2006 11:01 Comments || Top||

#29  AlanC, well said.
Posted by: Broadhead6 || 06/20/2006 11:10 Comments || Top||

#30  SteveS: The SubGenii definitely have some interesting theology, like the Short Duration Personal Savior, the Short Duration Marriage that only lasts one hour, holding "devivals" instead of "revivals", with "sickenings" instead of "healings", "Bob"-tisms, and of course the Sex Goddesses from Planet X that will descend in their pleasure saucers on July 5th, 1998 to pick up all the SubGenises just before the world is destroyed.

They're more orthodox than the Episcopalians.

At least they acknowledge the existence of a supreme being, and you don't *have* to be an atheist to become a Bishop.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 06/20/2006 11:18 Comments || Top||

#31  bk, I concur whole heartedly w/your great spirit analogy. However, not to trifle but we're not like other animals - at least they don't fight over religion.
Posted by: Broadhead6 || 06/20/2006 11:20 Comments || Top||

#32  Tinker, Evers, Chance

No! No! These are the saddest of possible words!
Posted by: Thinemp Whimble2412 || 06/20/2006 11:23 Comments || Top||

#33  Though if they look at our bulletin boards with event listings, they might learn something about how faith and peoplehood are interwoven for us, and how much Israel means to us.

That is so clueless. Maybe you might learn something.
Posted by: 2b || 06/20/2006 11:24 Comments || Top||

#34  Of course, liberalhawk, I agree on all counts, and adding the matriarchs is what the Reform Jewish liturgy does -- in both languages (which is why I added that comment about the lengthened service time). But Hebrew was no longer a spoken language by the time of Christ -- in that part of the world the language in use was Aramaic. For that matter, many of the Jews of the Diaspora (which by that time had spread as far as Spain and England, India and possibly even a small settlement in China, all along North Africa and up the Nile into Ethiopia) at that time had no Hebrew at all, and relied on the Greek Septuagint translation of the Bible, commissioned by one of the Ptolemys about a century previous -- no doubt one of the reasons that the last addition to the Jewish Bible is the book of Daniel, written just before the adventures of the Maccabees.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/20/2006 11:39 Comments || Top||

#35  2b, I don't know about liberalhawk, but I have no idea what on earth you mean.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/20/2006 11:42 Comments || Top||

#36  Liberalhawk, Is there a state of grace in Judaism ? That's what Jesus was trying to tell you about. I see from these comments there is almost no knowledge of the state of grace around.
Like I stated earlier, religions missed it. Today, they focus on tradition. The blind leading the blind.
Posted by: wxjames || 06/20/2006 11:48 Comments || Top||

#37  money, sex, power.

*whisper whisper*

Oh!
Posted by: pihkalbadger || 06/20/2006 13:05 Comments || Top||

#38  Hardrock, Coco and Joe.

At least that was shown during CHRISTmas.
Posted by: anonymous2u || 06/20/2006 13:52 Comments || Top||

#39  Oppressive Patriarchal Entity; Patriarchy Reinforcing Salvific Entity; Non-Gendered Insubstantial Entity.

The Holy Trinity. The Post-modern Version.
Posted by: 11A5S || 06/20/2006 15:48 Comments || Top||

#40  Actually, there is a large amount of context wrapped int he gender of God, especially in the term "Father" - Abba as it is rendered in Jesus' own words.

The image is of a protector - but its also the cheif of the tribe, and the holder of the covenant - that is the one who will pay the blood price for the covenant. The term Son - espcially first-born carries with it a large number of important contexts - inheritor, cherised, etc - and it still serves that way today - the eldest son seems to always be the one that responsibility fall on for family affairs once the father has passed on.

There are some deep linguistic and contextual roots of the words used, and by de-masculinzing them you rob the passages of their meaning - and of thier teaching and normative value. Its similar to the difference in impact of "Mankind" versus "People". Both have their place, and carry different tacit sets of meanings with them.

To do anything other than attempt normal narly literal translations is to attempt to edit God's words into something politically palatable by an age that is obviously fallen. And at that point you've left the rails and will put yourself into free fall, speaking as a Catholic.

The 2 cent version:

Gender carries a lot of very important meaning in Biblical verses and Christian theology, and should not be cavalierly discarded ignored or repressed.

Posted by: Oldspook || 06/20/2006 17:13 Comments || Top||

#41  John, Paul, George (and Ringo)
Posted by: Grereger Thretch9628 || 06/20/2006 17:25 Comments || Top||

#42  TW - the idea that Liberalhawk hopes that Christians "might learn something about how faith and peoplehood are interwoven for us" shows such a complete and total lack of understanding what is taught in a Christian church to the point that his comment the "they might learn something" is almost comical.

The Christian Bible contains the Old Testament and Christians spend their Sundays learning how the Jewish faith and people are interwoven.
Posted by: 2b || 06/20/2006 17:47 Comments || Top||

#43  2b: I think Brother 'Hawk is referring to the tendency of the old-line "mainstream" (read: left-leaning) Protestant denominations to presume the worst about Israel (and, by extension, the Jewish faith) based on their political leanings. That's a very different world view from what prevails in my Catholic parish or in my wife's General Conference Baptist church or wherever you go on Sundays.
Posted by: Mike || 06/20/2006 18:30 Comments || Top||

#44  2b, I read liberalhawk's post as referring specifically to the members of the Presbyterian congregation that had temporarily taken up residence in his synagogue.

Good point, Oldspook.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/20/2006 19:20 Comments || Top||

#45  nicky pat an lee.

that shuld do it. kayse setteld
Posted by: muck4doo || 06/20/2006 19:33 Comments || Top||

#46  hmmm.... I'll grudgingly give him the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by: 2b || 06/20/2006 20:12 Comments || Top||

#47  I don't think this sort of thing will fly at National Presbyterian Church. They are a rather conservative congregation going back a couple hundred years.

(The ushers don't wear morning-coats, but that's about as "modern" as they went. *heh*)
Posted by: eLarson || 06/20/2006 20:21 Comments || Top||

#48  "Double cheeseburger, onion rings, large orange drink" - Church of the Drivethru
Posted by: Pappy || 06/20/2006 21:37 Comments || Top||

#49  Hotwings,Football,and Sunday Man I wish football season would start. :)
Posted by: djohn66 || 06/20/2006 21:41 Comments || Top||

#50  Liberalhawk,

If I remember correctly, you are in the DC area, right? My synagogue, Beth Emeth in Reston, VA, also has the two versions of the Amidah in its siddur.

The Rabbi explained the situation a few weeks ago; in the US Conservative movement, the agreement is that any controversy is discussed by the 24-person national board. Any point of view endorsed by at least 6 of them is considered a valid view for any member synagogue to take. That's why there are Conservative synagogues that count women in the minyan, and others that don't, and so on.

Of course Jewish jurisprudence does have a strong streak of arguments just for the sake of argument. As the old joke goes, “Where you have 2 Jews, you have 3 opinions. Where you have 20 Jews, you have 2 synagogues. And where you have 100 Jews you have 200 political parties.”

Seriously, the Talmud and the Responsa does remind one of a somewhat tipsy moot court at times.
Posted by: Eric Jablow || 06/20/2006 22:20 Comments || Top||

#51  Thats one thing I love about the local Archdiocese - the semianry there has an agreement with the local synagogues where priests in formation (and masters level divinity students from the local Catholic university) go to several services iththe local reformed synagogue (or conservative when we can find a Rabbi willing to have a gaggle of worshipful Christian outsiders sit in).

I've foudn it enjoyable to learn how well we mesh on a vast majority of things, with only the obvious being the dividing lines - and how we can agree to disagree (without the implied violence and implicit threats Muslims seem to have for anyone that disagrees with them theologiclaly, even other Muslims).
Posted by: Oldspook || 06/20/2006 22:30 Comments || Top||

#52  Of course Jewish jurisprudence does have a strong streak of arguments just for the sake of argument.

Ahhh, so thats where we Catholics inherited that argumentative streak from!
Posted by: Oldspook || 06/20/2006 22:31 Comments || Top||

#53  I'm surprised nobody mentioned: "sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll."

Or maybe: "rum, sodomy, and the lash" for those especially needing penance.
Posted by: xbalanke || 06/20/2006 22:33 Comments || Top||

#54  One thing we can all agree upon (music and lyrics by George Newall):


Three is a magic number,
Yes it is, it's a magic number.
Somewhere in the ancient, mystic trinity
You get three as a magic number.

The past and the present and the future.
Faith and Hope and Charity,
The heart and the brain and the body
Give you three as a magic number.

It takes three legs to make a tri-pod
Or to make a table stand.
It takes three wheels to make a ve-hicle
Called a tricycle.

Every triangle has three corners,
Every triangle has three sides,
No more, no less.
You don't have to guess.
When it's three you can see
It's a magic number.

A man and a woman had a little baby,
Yes, they did.
They had three in the family,
And that's a magic number.

3-6-9, 12-15-18, 21-24-27, 30.
3-6-9, 12-15-18, 21-24-27, 30.
Multiply backwards from three times ten:

Three time ten is (30), three times nine is (27),
Three times eight is (24), three times seven is (21),
Three times six is (18), three times five is (15),
Three times four is twelve,
And three times three is nine, and three times two is six,
And three times one is three of course.

Now take the pattern once more:
Three! . . .3-6-9
Twelve! . . .12-15-18
Twenty-one!. . .21-24-27. . .30

Now multiply from 10 backwards:
Three time ten is (30 - Keep going), three times nine is (27),
Three times eight is (24), three times seven is (21),
Three times six is (18), three times five is (15),
Three times four is twelve,
And three times three is nine, and three times two is six,
And three times one...
What is it?!
Three!
Yeah, That's a magic number.

A man and a woman had a little baby.
Yes, they did.
They had three in the family.
That's a magic number.


Posted by: Eric Jablow || 06/20/2006 22:46 Comments || Top||


New US church leader says homosexuality no sin
Newly elected leader of the U.S. Episcopal Church Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori said on Monday she believed homosexuality was no sin and homosexuals were created by God to love people of the same gender. Jefferts Schori, bishop of the Diocese of Nevada, was elected on Sunday as the first woman leader of the 2.3 million-member Episcopal Church. the U.S. branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion. She will formally take office later this year.
"Yeah, no problem. Go ahead. Do what you want. Who're we to tell you what to do or what not to do?"
This is going to go over well with the African Anglicans. I foresee lots of brotherly love and gentle words.
Posted by: Fred || 06/20/2006 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  There are many Episcopal churches in this country (particularly in the South) that are withholding their financial support from the national church hiearchy because of nonsense like this. It is bad enough that the Catholic church is struggling to purge the pederasts from the priesthood without the Episcopal clergy encouraging it.
Posted by: RWV || 06/20/2006 0:34 Comments || Top||

#2  This strikes me as queer
Posted by: Captain America || 06/20/2006 0:36 Comments || Top||

#3  Gives a whole new meaning to love they brother.
Posted by: 2b || 06/20/2006 0:41 Comments || Top||

#4  show NV cowboys 'Brokeback Mtn' and ask for their response. Won't be the same as West Hollywood, Palm Springs, Key West, or Manhattan. I'd advise insurance update first.... She's outta touch with her home base, much less the US
Posted by: Frank G || 06/20/2006 0:44 Comments || Top||

#5  Likely there'll be a lot more U.S. Episcopal churches becoming 'missions' of the African Anglican dioceses.
Posted by: Pappy || 06/20/2006 1:39 Comments || Top||

#6  U.S. Episcopal Church Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori

Rumor has it she's an imposter: she doesn't move diagonally.
Posted by: badanov || 06/20/2006 5:01 Comments || Top||

#7  Dual last names = sure sign of a liberal mindset.
Posted by: Raj || 06/20/2006 7:29 Comments || Top||

#8  Bad - well she sure as shit don't be a-goin straight...
Posted by: Omains Ulavilet3145 || 06/20/2006 8:16 Comments || Top||

#9  Apparently she has not read Leviticus 18:20.
Posted by: GORT || 06/20/2006 8:26 Comments || Top||

#10  Regardless of where one stand on the issue of homosexualtiy, this is sure to split the Episcopal church right into 2 parts.

First, its theologically extremely unsound.

Foremost for her and anyone else that believes homosexual acts and Christianity to be compatible are several passages in the Bible that cannot be explained away without massive contortions:

First, there is adultery. Adultery in the natural sense is sexual intercourse of a married person with someone other than his or her own spouse. It is condemned in both the Old and New Testaments (Exodus 20:14; I Cor. 6:9, 10). Christ forbids dwelling upon the thoughts, the free play of one's imagination that leads to adultery (Matthew 5:28).
There is also fornication, the illicit sex acts of unmarried persons which is likewise forbidden (I Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; Ephesians 5:3). Since marriage is between a man and a woman (as repeatedly specified in the Bible), it is impossible for homosexual acts to be licit - they are by definition disorderd - and an act of fornication (sex outside of marriage).

There is also specific condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible: The Apostle Paul, writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, declares that homosexuality "shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (I Corinthians 6:9; 10). Now Paul does not single out the homosexual as a special offender. He includes fornicators, idolators, adulterers, thieves, covetous persons, drunkards, revilers and extortioners. And then he adds the comment that some of the Christians at Corinth had been delivered from these very practices: "And such were some of you: But you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the spirit of our God" (I Corinthians 6:11).

Homosexuality is an illicit lust forbidden by God. He said to His people Israel, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13). *All* of the sins mentioned in this passage are condemned by God, but just as there was hope in Christ for the Corinthians, so is there hope for all of us.

Furthermore, in the old testament, "sodomy" is a synonym for homosexuality. God spoke plainly on the matter when He said, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel" (Deuteronomy 23:17). The whore and the sodomite are in the same category. A sodomite was not an inhabitant of Sodom nor a descendant of an inhabitant of Sodom, but a man who had given himself to homosexuality, the perverted and unnatural vice for which Sodom was known. From the verses in question:

"But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house around, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may *know* them.

And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. (Genesis 19:4-8)

The Hebrew word for "know" in verse 5 is ya`da`, a sexual term. It is used frequently to denote sexual intercourse (Genesis 4:1, 17, 25; Matthew 1:24, 25). The message in the context of Genesis 19 is clear. Lot pled with the men to "do not so wickedly." Thus the biblical view is that homosexuality is wickedness and must be recognized as such. If it is not, then there is no hope for the homosexual - for to be forgiven sins, one must first repent of the sins.

In these passages homosexuality is condemned as a prime example of sin, a sexual perversion, and a bar to the Kingdom of God. The Christian can neither alter God's viewpoint nor depart from it.

Which is why I am so mystified as to how they can slice and dice the Bible and still try to call themselves Christian. At least have the courage to say that you are no longer Christians, you are some melange of modernism, social liberalism and a bit of humanistic niceness that you've cherrypicked formthe Christian bible.

Secondly, its mainly a political statement that counters the long established theology of the church. There is no denying that fact. The positionthat Homosexuality is "OK" is nothing but a political ploy.

And third, this person that is in charge apparently is more concnerned with political correctness than saving souls. They should jsut as well just rip her part of the Episcopal Church out and make it Universalist Unitarians for all the lack of firmness of doctrine and belief they have - they who are critical of nothing will fall for anything.

Note that I am writing from a Catholic viewpoint - and a fairly orthodox one. Homosexuals are not condemned any more than any other kind of sinner. They are held to the same standards. If they wish to be Christian, they need to repent of thier sins (homosexual acts), not do them again, and live a properly chaste life, as do all Christians per the biblical passages above.

The bottom line is soemthing the left and liberals have endless problems with:

Life isnt fair - and some people have more burden than others. Thats why we have our faith and our God to turn to for salvation and strength. Help those with a burden, but do not become an enabler for their sins. The EPiscopal Church is shunning its duty to help sinners save themselves - and in doing so it will eventually become anathema itself.

If you beleive otherwise that what is in the Bible and God's word, then please do not call yourselves "Christian".

The African communion is going to go bonkers over this, as are the southern and conservative US parts of the Episcopal Communion.
Posted by: Oldspook || 06/20/2006 8:53 Comments || Top||

#11  Begging the pardon of Episcopalians everywhere, this woman is a fraud.
I can assure you, homosexuality is a sin, period.
Posted by: wxjames || 06/20/2006 10:11 Comments || Top||

#12  Note that I am writing from a Catholic viewpoint - and a fairly orthodox one.

I'd say you're writing from a Christian viewpoint. As a Protestant, I find nothing to quarrel with in what you have to say.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 06/20/2006 10:29 Comments || Top||

#13  Excellent, OS!
Posted by: Deacon Blues || 06/20/2006 12:18 Comments || Top||

#14  You are on point OS.

One other thought. Biblically, "the wages of sin is death". Presbyterian Church is now under the auspices of liberals/humanists. Their proclamations that sin is right is their means of killing an American main stream "formerly Christian" denomination.

That all along has been a plan of humanists beginning in the 1930’s to take over a Christian nation's government, then its public schools, it's centers of higher education (many of which were founded over a hundred and fifty years ago as Christian centers of higher education), and then the main stream churches of America.

Then humanism is attained, Christianity destroyed, and a nation loses the greatest blessings never seen before in human history bestowed on a nation by God.

Humanism/liberalism mission accomplished....
Posted by: Gromosh Elminegum5705 || 06/20/2006 12:35 Comments || Top||

#15  The United States of America is not a Christian nation. We are a secular nation, the vast majority of whose citizens are, and have always been, Christian. Currently that vast majority is somewhere between 75% and 80%, depending on who is doing the counting. Somewhere around 11% of us are currently atheist, between 1% and 2% are Jewish, and I've no idea about the rest.

A good many of the Founding Fathers were Deists, believers in a vague "God of Nature", the great clockbuilder who established and wound up the mechanical universe, then walked away; quite a few others, like Benjamin Franklin, were polite atheists, and both groups were well able to defend their interests against the various flavours of Christianity favoured by the rest. Hence the Establishment clause, which freed us to follow our individual consciences and understandings to the religion of our personal choices, so long as we act as good citizens in our interactions with others. This has been a very good thing for our country, sparing us the relgious wars of the Old World, and the false dichotomy of Establishment Christianity vs. atheism.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/20/2006 13:02 Comments || Top||

#16  TW: A calming effect came over me as I read your post. hehehe.. Good stuff!
Posted by: Besoeker || 06/20/2006 13:06 Comments || Top||

#17  The Presby church will be joining them, they're voting on whether gays should or should not be in the pulpit.

What I want to know is why are they willing to tear us apart since at some point in the (somewhat) near future all homosexuality is going to be is an option on a designer baby checklist.

Posted by: anonymous2u || 06/20/2006 14:16 Comments || Top||

#18  TW: Yes, good post and clearly stated. I note that Franklin advocated chastity nonetheless, and clearly believed in an absolute moral order which informed religion (not the other way around).
Posted by: KBK || 06/20/2006 14:32 Comments || Top||

#19  I'm not so certain Franklin was a true atheist. He did say , "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy". as far as chastity, Ole Ben had syphilus contracted most probably while Ambassador to France. At least, that's what's written in a couple of biographies of him.
I was asked, once, bya Muslim co-worker how I felt about Jihad. I told him I do not and never have believed God wants any of us to kill others because of "sins". God will have his own justice and revenge.
Posted by: Deacon Blues || 06/20/2006 15:03 Comments || Top||

#20  Church of the Brokeback Mountain?
Posted by: Captain America || 06/20/2006 15:13 Comments || Top||

#21  Decisions like this flow from a clergy that feels morally and intellectualy superior to the laity. Twits. Also, although it may just be increased media attention, a lot of the clergy appear to be a little queer as well.
Posted by: RWV || 06/20/2006 16:32 Comments || Top||

#22  Franklin was a deist pretty much (jsut not as vocal about it), as was Jefferson. And the "Judeo-Christian" morality and its emphasis (by way of Locke, tempered by the Federalist Papers and Tom Paine) on INDIVIDUAL responsibility to Natural Law are what made this country the great place that it is. Make no mistake about it - Natural Law is the bedrock basis for our legal system and our political beliefs. And that is the same Natural Law upon which Catholicism and most Christian denominations rely.

As for this item - all I ask is for them to stop lying to themsleves - they ahve reached the point where they can no more call themselves Christian than Ted Kennedy could call himself Republican. They basically have abandoned over a a milliena of research, pholosophy, tradition, theology and Biblical hermenuetics.

Thats why I posted what I did - they are being dishonest and I was calling attentio to the fact that thier self-promotion as "Christian" doens't survive scrutiny any more than a socialist's claims of being a libertrian.

I have far more respect for honest atheists and truthful agnostics than people who try to take Christianity and bend it into somehting it is not and then claim that it is - and it matters not one whit whether it be David Koresh, Jim Jones, or the Episcopal Church; wrong is wrong.



Posted by: Oldspook || 06/20/2006 16:49 Comments || Top||

#23  As for Franklin being an atheist - this statement below puts that to rest:

All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?"

Benjamin Franklin, To Colleagues at the Constitutional Convention
Posted by: Oldspook || 06/20/2006 16:50 Comments || Top||

#24  That also should lay to rest the "disinterested watchmaker" Naturalist diety that many ascribe to Franklin. Clearly, his reference is to a transcendant and eminent God who is inolved in the ways of men, not aa God who set the world in motionthen left it to its own. The phrase about a sparrow is very much a Christian reference: Matt 10:29 (and Luke as well) [The words of Christ] "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father's will."

Mind you, I'm NOT saying that Franklin was a Christian per-se, nor that we should have any strangling entanglements between the Church and the State, but that there is more to the story than you learned in school.
Posted by: Oldspook || 06/20/2006 17:00 Comments || Top||

#25  Franklin advocated chastity
Yep.

I advise the yoofs to avoids likker and wymns.
Posted by: 6 || 06/20/2006 18:13 Comments || Top||

#26  But BF had a grandson who was a B of a B of a B, so it made financial sense to advise chastity, little late for him tho.
Posted by: 6 || 06/20/2006 18:14 Comments || Top||

#27  Dear Mr. Franklin advocated many things for others, and a decent respect for the appearance of respectability for himself. It sounds as if, like in so many matters, his opinion about the existence and nature of God changed over the course of a long and storied life. He was, among other things, a Mason, and famed in Europe and the Americas for his scientific discoveries. And apparently he found playing the rusticated American was a good way into the perfumed beds of many a noble French lady when he was at court representing his country.
Posted by: trailing wife || 06/20/2006 19:31 Comments || Top||

#28  Franklin undoutably changed over his lifespan - as do we all.

Some of more than others. You'd not recognize who I was if you only knew me my freshman year in college. Soph year I discovered Rand and W.F. Buckley, and the world changed for me. Joining the Army REALLY changed me. Becoming a Christian and a Catholic changed me yet again. Getting married changed me so much for hte better (I really could not have married any better!). Becoming a father changed me a HUGE amount. Combat changed me further, as did working in a "silent" business.

Im am not even 1% of the callow idiot socialistic moron who started out as a drunken freshman oh so many decades ago.

All the desperation, poverty, inhumanity of man to man, plain old evil, and even the combat & death I saw and caused - they change a person a large amount, and cause you to look outside yoruself for strenght and faith (or navel gze and collapse inward or rail in anger outward as some on the left do).

And yet there are miracles every day if you look for them - people get cured, children born, marrigaes that last, the list goes on. And the older and more experienced I get, the more those "Words in Red" ring with an eternal truth; its a hard but simple truth. The simple things are never easy.


Posted by: Oldspook || 06/20/2006 22:22 Comments || Top||

#29  so true. Well said. I used to think it was just good "death bed" advice (meaning good advice from those facing what was really most important) but was surprised to find that there's so much more power in it than that. I feel bad the message has been drowned out in today's society.
Posted by: 2b || 06/20/2006 22:33 Comments || Top||



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