A deer hunter who apparently intruded on private property killed five other hunters who had been staying in a nearby cabin and wounded three more during the opening weekend of deer season, authorities said. Deputy Jake Hodgkinson identified the suspect as Chai Vang but would give no details. Vang is from St. Paul, Minn., said Paul Schnell, a spokesman for the St. Paul police department.
The shooting started when two hunters returning to their rural cabin saw the suspect in one of their hunting platforms in a tree, Sawyer County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said. The platforms or "tree stands" allow hunters to see deer without being easily seen themselves. Both of those hunters were wounded and one of them radioed friends at the cabin a quarter-mile away. Other members of their group responded and they also were shot, he said. "It's absolutely nuts. Why? Over sitting in a tree stand?" asked Zeigle.
Zeigle said the suspect was "chasing after them and killing them," with a SKS 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle, a common hunting weapon. Wisconsin's statewide deer gun hunting season started Saturday and lasts for nine days. About 20 shots were fired but it was unclear if any of the hunters had fired at the suspect or who might have shot first, Zeigle said. There was just one gun among the eight people killed or wounded, he said.
The dead included a a teenage boy and a woman, and a father and son, Zeigle said. Some of the victims were shot more than once. All five were from the Rice Lake area, about 15 miles southwest of Birchwood in northwestern Wisconsin, he said. Authorities found two bodies near each other and the others were scattered over 100 yards. The suspect, who did not have a compass, got lost in the woods and two other hunters who didn't know about the shootings helped him find his way out, Zeigle said. The man was arrested when he emerged from the woods and a Department of Natural Resources officer recognized the deer license on his back from a description given by one of the shooting victims, Zeigle said. The man was out of ammunition, he said. The description of the incident as a "hunting dispute" and of the victims as a "group of hunters" would seem to be unsupportable then. It seems more likely that this was a family group who had come to the woods with a hunter, but who were not themselves hunters. This was a case of trespassing, or perhaps even a planned ambush. In the AP's PC lexicon, of course, people who shoot furry forest friends could not be the victims of a cold-blooded mass murder.
#2
"About 20 shots were fired but it was unclear if any of the hunters had fired at the suspect or who might have shot first - there was just one gun among the eight people killed or wounded."
>this is odd, if I'm at the cabin & my buddy radios a distress call & he's getting shot at. I damn well bring my trusty .30-30 w/me when trying to help him out.
#3
This is why I don't hunt during modern rifle season any more. There are too many ID10T's that think they are the "great white hunter".
At least during bow season, most of the idiots can't hit you (or anything else) at more than 25 yards. To get good (i.e. able to hit a fist sized spot on a deer at 40+ yards) with a bow you have to practice at least 6 months in advance. And getting pissed only decreases accuracy.
Posted by: N Guard ||
11/22/2004 15:47 Comments ||
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True N Guard. I prefer Bowhunting as well for the more pure art of it, and, imho the bow hunters are more serious folks. I'm trying to get into recurves now after years of using a compound. OTOH, I must admit, I love gun hunting as well (I'm a big gun nut). I've never understood how hunters can mistake other hunters for deer & thus take a shot at them, just pure negligence and recklessness. People like that should not be allowed in the woods.
#5
The self-imposed pressure on many deer hunters gives 'em buck fever and their minds do the rest. It takes discipline and patience to stalk a deer and get into position to safely shoot and get a good, clean kill. Many people do not have what it takes to get there, much less not shoot at a deer where the shot is marginal or possibly unsafe.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/22/2004 16:08 Comments ||
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It takes discipline and patience to stalk a deer and get into position to safely shoot and get a good, clean kill.
-Absolutely AP. My contention has always been w/other "stand hunters" shooting at folks. No excuse imo for endangering another hunter. If you can't positively i.d. what you're shooting at, don't shoot. Luckily I've never had to return fire on another hunter, yet.
#7
There is an element here that I doubt the MSM has picked up yet. The suspect is a member of the Hmong (sp) minority group. Of late there has been quite a bit of animosity over the continued settlement of these people in the upper mid west as they seemingly refuse to assimilate. If they are hunting or fishing during or out of season means nothing to them as do bag limits. When the two individuals initially chased him off of private property I'm willing to bet that racial ephitets were slung around. As to this being just a family group accompanying a hinter up in that part of the state the schools close down for deer season. A lot of the locals refer to it as "Holy Week". These were quite likely a group of family members and friends that had hunted to gether for years.
Shoppers now crowd Venezuela's shopping malls, two years after they were padlocked during a national strike against President Hugo Chavez. The economy is robust once again. The mass demonstrations that paralyzed the capital are no more. But underneath the veneer of normalcy in this oil-rich nation is deep frustration felt by Chavez's opponents after three efforts to unseat him failed: a coup, a national strike and a referendum. They are in disarray and unable to challenge a president they accuse of steering Venezuela into a Cuba-style dictatorship.
As Chavez moves to further centralize power and advance what he calls his revolution for the poor, the risk that extremists will turn to violence was underscored by the assassination Thursday of a state attorney who was intending to prosecute supporters of the failed 2002 coup. Meanwhile, what Chavez calls the "democratic opposition" is at a nadir. "The opposition has no legitimate leadership. Not at this moment," said Alberto Garrido, a leading Venezuelan political commentator and author of several books on Chavez. "We'll see if the opposition finds ways to develop a leadership. It will be a very slow process."
Chavez, a former paratroop commander who tried to gain power in an unsuccessful 1992 coup, has done very well using democratic means instead to install his "Bolivarian revolution," named after his idol, Latin American liberator Simon Bolivar. First elected president in 1998 and re-elected in 2000, Chavez won the August referendum that sought to oust him by a 60-40 percent margin. In October, pro-Chavez candidates swept all but two of Venezuela's 23 governorships in regional elections. He is next set to strengthen his sway over parliament in congressional elections in July.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2004 1:33:52 AM ||
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Total bullshit from beginning to end!!
"Let's discuss Venezuela's economic growth
By Daniel Duquenal
19.11.04 | Today the Venezuelan Central Bank, BCV, issued its third trimester report. In it we find a few interesting things.
First the GDP increase in comparison to the third quarter of 2003 (after the devastating oil strike) is 15.8% when that last one had a 7.1% drop respective to 2002. This would be very good on its face value. And indeed things are going much better than one year ago. But let's be a little bit more inquisitive in our lecture of the recent economic numbers.
The sector that showed the largest recovery was construction, the one comatose since 2002. It increased in the third quarter by a whopping 40.3%! How come? Well, in the purest of Venezuelan political tradition, the government released a lot of cash to build quickly popular housing that it could have built earlier. But it makes for better photo-ops when the president himself goes to open a few dozen subsidized housing here and there. Yet we can read that the construction sector is still 40% below its 2001 level, which was not that great to begin with.
More good news, in large part due to the extraordinary electoral spending so decried through this blog since early this year. General consumer demand increased by 29.2%!!! And the jobless rate is still 14.5% and the underemployed (street vendors and the like) is still hovering at 50%. No big change there. So how come people have money suddenly? Cash grants from a mision or another?
Still the BCV is careful and gives a 12% for the whole year in spite of such a gleaming third quarter. Do they know something we do not know? Like a sudden slow down in the 4th quarter?
Elsewhere we read that the increase in accounts balances towards a surplus is due to an increase of 37.1% of oil price. Yet the National Assembly issues a new debt emission of 500 million USD against the objections of the BCV!
And to reassure your doubts about the good management of the country, the BIV, one of the two "commercial banks" which is state owned, has a bad debt roll of 34.3%, the highest within the Venezuelan banking system whose average is 2.4%. That is, a whopping 1/3 of the loans issued by the BIV (many to associates of the regime) are bad debt that probably will never be recovered. Imagine that!
And supposedly we should cheer up the GDP increase in the third quarter. One wonders what would that GDP be if we had a better managed country and not the corrupt mess that we are putting up with."
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200411190407
New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark has denied claims that the nation's top intelligence agency has been spying on Maori activists. A newspaper claims several prominent figures had their phones or computers bugged. As Prime Minister, Ms Clark is also the Minister in Charge of the Security Intelligence Agency. She says the director of the agency has told her the story is a work of fiction. One of those allegedly targeted, the leader of the Maori party Tariana Turia, says there is enough detail in the claims to warrant further investigation. "Maori people are not terrorists," she said. "I object strongly to the whole notion that we are or we could be." Several of the opposition parties may join together to force a parliamentary inquiry.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
11/22/2004 3:19:58 AM ||
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The last shipment of spent nuclear fuel rods under a French-Australian reprocessing agreement left Sydney by ship on Monday. Under the agreement, the rods from Australia's only nuclear reactor at Lucas Heights in Sydney's south are reprocessed and later returned to Australia as low or medium level radioactive waste for storage. Future shipments of rods will go to the United States, but they will not be reprocessed or returned.
-----snipped-----
Posted by: God Save The World ||
11/22/2004 3:22:01 AM ||
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Okay, I'll ask. What kinda time does a nuclear rod get?
The EU says it is ready to give China a positive signal on lifting its 15-year old arms embargo, despite opposition from human rights campaigners and the US.
Dutch Foreign Minister and current head of the Council, Bernard Bot, told journalists on Monday that the EU is ready to give a "positive signal" at an EU-China summit next month.
"We are ready to give a positive signal as far as the lifting of the embargo is concerned, but ... there remain a number of concerns", he said.
His comments follow a discussion by EU foreign ministers on Monday (22 November), which appears to signal a more flexible position from some EU members.
The UK and some Scandinavian countries had opposed lifting the ban, which came into place following the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989.
However, any outright opposition now seems to have dissipated.
It is expected that any revision of the ban would be coupled with a tightening up of the EU's code of conduct which governs arms sales which may be enough to get an agreement among EU members.
Diplomats say China may be willing to ratify the UN covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which it signed in 1998.
The EU-China summit takes place on 8 December. "We'll sell you the weapons, but you have to promise not to do anything bad with them!"
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/22/2004 20:23 Comments ||
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#2
Ew Dum Bastahd
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2004 20:29 Comments ||
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#3
More like, 'let's band together against that nasty US' -- economically, technically and eventually militarily as well.
Posted by: too true ||
11/22/2004 21:19 Comments ||
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The EU will sell its soul out to Iran and the Chicoms. It is nice to know the the UK and some Scandinavian countries have some principles left. I feel like it is 1936 all over again. The Chinese will say, Thank you very much, and they will obtain what they need to reverse engineer that will eventually point against us.
The Chicoms will ratify any UN covenant of Civil and Political rights that the UN throws at them. No skin off their fore. The UN is all mouth and no muscle. Even though we know all this to be true, I am still continually amazed by the EU.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/22/2004 22:16 Comments ||
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#5
Don't sell weapons to Red China. The only positive signal it would send is that the EU is led by spineless second-handers.
To China, all I have to say is: Remember Tienanmen! the Butchers of Beijing will pay, as surely as Ceaucescu did.
I'd also like to know what standards the UN's bribed bureaucrats and European politicians apply to the Chinese occupation of Tibet.
#6
If European weapons are used against the US in a war over Taiwan, NATO is done. Kaput. Upon which the US will probably start demanding that those countries that want American protection exit from the EU.
#7
Zhang Fei---I think NATO is done already. Look at Turkey, look at how France put a wrench into allowing Patriots to go into Turkey before the Operation Iraqi Freedom. You will always have the French to put the turd in the punchbowl and ruin the punch, if the French feel that doing so will stick it to the US. Better work up bilateral agreements or something. Hell, some NATO nations want to open up weapons trade with Chicoms, which was the subject of this post.
Kalle---I have thought alot about Tibet over the years. I think that there will never again be a free Tibet until China is free. All this Dali Lama crap has gotten absolutely nowhere. You cannot appeal to the good side of Chicom psychopaths, there is none.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/22/2004 22:31 Comments ||
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#8
Don't forget, Clinton already gave the ChiComs all sorts of technology...
IT WAS once the only way to get ahead in East Germany - now most Germans are amazed to find that they still exist. The former East Germany's communist youth organisation, the Free German Youth (FDJ), is making a stuttering comeback amid disillusion with the grim reality of German unification, and nostalgia for the cost and predictable world of socialism. They march against the 'annexation' of the German Democratic Republic (GDR) by the west, and want to carry out their national service in the East German army in order to fight the forces of western imperialism. Supporters are even heading for the UK this Christmas for a pilgrimage to the grave of Karl Marx.
At their height, when the Communist GDR claimed to be the future of Germany, the FDJ was more than 2 million strong. Now the party estimates it has about 150 fully paid-up members and claims they are again on the march, with branches in Bremen, Frankfurt, and Munich, in addition to its groups in the traditional heartland of the former East Germany.
In addition to its campaigning, the FDJ also claims to be prepared to use armed violence against the west, and therefore members refuse to give their full names in order to hide their identity from the German intelligence services. One member of the FDJ, who styles himself Ringo E, was last month fined 2,400 (£1,700) by a court for desertion after refusing to serve his national service in the German army. He had turned down the option of working in a hospital or care home - the usual alternative chosen by conscientious objectors, because he does not regard himself as a pacifist. Instead, he wants to serve in the East German army.
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Posted by: tipper ||
11/22/2004 9:51:38 AM ||
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Oh brother... "The former East Germanyâs communist youth organisation, the Free German Youth (FDJ), is making a stuttering comeback amid disillusion with the grim reality of German unification, and nostalgia for the cost and predictable world of socialism."
ROFLMAO!!! Wotta load o' apologist tripe. Talk about GRIM REALITY - think East Germany BEFORE reunification.
More Stupidity: "claims that East Germans were conned into unification by bogus promises"
If anyone was harmed by the reunification, it was the prosperous West Germans who were dragged down by the disaster of East Germany, from environmental disasters that demanded attention to the crumbling farce of an infrastructure to the State system of subsidized privilege for the Party Members and good little Stasi stooges / informers. I pity the poor West - do-gooders who paid one hell of a price for the reunification.
TGA could jump on this pile of shit and stomp author Murdo MacLeod a new asshole. The email is there to make it personal, if he's inclined to educate this jackass in reality vs. moronic ideological fiction.
I'm sure many East Germans do, with nostalgia. Unemployment is far above 10% in many parts of the east and those folks probably have little future to look forward to.
My uncle was in WWII and ended up marrying a German in the '60's. Not everything she said about Hitler and the pre-war period was uncomplimentary.
Remember the Freikorps too.
That is why we should not remove all our troops from Germany.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/22/2004 13:29 Comments ||
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The "grim reality" of East Germany is that every unemployed gets enough money from the State to pay for rent, food and clothes (and some more).
I'm getting tired of that crap. If you can't find work in your home town, MOVE.
If you lived in Detroit and got offered a good job in L.A., wouldn't you move? That's a few thousand miles. And a guy from Dresden can't move 500 km to find work in Munich?
About ONE TRILLION euros have gone into East Germany in the last 15 years. WTF did you do with that money there?
Members of the Communist GDR in Munich? I guess you could line them up the wall and shoot them with a single bullet.
The German army has suspended 18 training personnel who are alleged to have dressed as Arabs and tortured conscripts during a series of mock hostage-takings. The conscripts were ambushed during a night march, bound, hooded and bundled into a truck. They were made to kneel against the wall of a barracks basement to be beaten, drenched with cold water and electro-shocked, according to a news magazine report.
The electric shock is a bit much, but otherwise sounds like a standard escape & evasion training exercise.
A civilian prosecutor said that 70 to 80 conscripts had been involved, but none appeared to have suffered permanent physical harm. The army said the exercise, allegedly to toughen the men in case they were taken hostage, was not authorised.
Oops!
Army personnel at the base, in Coesfeld, near the northern city of Muenster, have reportedly been warned to keep names of the accused secret. They may be charged with abuse of subordinates. A report in Monday's German news magazine Der Spiegel said there had been four separate mock hostage takings at the Coesfeld base between June and September this year. In Koblenz, the army command confirmed the suspension of a captain and 17 non-commissioned officers. A spokesman told Deutsche Presse- Agentur dpa the group was banned from wearing German army uniforms. The suspects also face an internal disciplinary inquiry. He said the lapse had been made public in a little-noticed announcement on 11 November. According to Spiegel, recruits were only warned about something unpleasant that would toughen them up, and told they could escape at any time by shouting a password, but would then be branded as cowards. The spokesman declined to confirm any of the details. The victims were part of a repair battalion, not an elite fighting unit.
Ok, may have been over the top then. These drills are SOP for Special Ops types and pilots in case they are captured.
The magazine said the trainers may have been inspired by reports of US torture in Abu Ghraib, Iraq.
More likely they may have seen or read about this type of training in other forces and decided to try it on their own.
Spiegel said one victim had been photographed with his pants off. Investigators were checking reports that the incidents were video-taped.
You videotape these classes to review later to refine your training.
It was not clear why the trainers adopted Arab head-dress.
Well, duh!
Posted by: Steve ||
11/22/2004 9:21:25 AM ||
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This is a standard part of escape and evasion training here in the US military. The German military is just laughable. The training is such a watered-down version of what they have to prepare for - in the event of capture - (beheading) that there shouldn't be any issues, whatsoever. The all-conquering Wehrmacht would have laughed their heads off at these dandies.
#4
thx for pointing that out, Aris - the two sentences are not related
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2004 12:19 Comments ||
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Aris, Escape and Evasion training was standard in the late 60's and early 70's when the US military was largely draftees. I don't think of it often, but the POW resistance training was not pleasant. In fact it was standard procedure at the AF survival school to keep students away form the instructors after the training to protect the intstructors. There was an incident at Fairchild AFB where a chance encounter between some students and instructors in a bar resulted in the hospitalization of the instructors.
#6
Frank G -- I'd consider it relevant on whether someone's there because he wants to or because he is obliged to. It alters (or ought to alter) the power that the state can wield over you.
Remember that I was recently called a "Hitler" because I thought that people who'd chosen the Pharmacist profession ought to sell medicine according to prescriptions. Oh, the horror of forcing them to sell medicine.
Now, you think it makes no difference on whether people choose or don't choose to be soldiers? And that this affects not at all whether the state should be able to beat (and electrocute) them as part of their training? It seems to me it does. Even if you think the state should *still* be able to electrocute its soldiers, you can't just ignore the conscript nature of the army as non-relevant.
#7
whether they're conscriptsor not matters, just not to the argument at hand. As usual, you've tried to divert the thread. The question was whether escape and evasion training had any simular activities...see your #3 again (and again, and again....). Sorry you got called a Hitler - get over it. I consider you a statist controller with little sense of humor - the worst kind of future bureaucrat, and a model EU apparatchik
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2004 15:32 Comments ||
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#8
"It alters (or ought to alter) the power that the state can wield over you."
I disagree. The only thing that matters is that they receive the most realistic training possible in order to operate under extreme duress, i.e. in a combat environment. If that means getting beat down (like what happens to us at mock POW training) or electrocution - so be it.
If you were conscripted Aris I'd imagine you would want the most realistic training possible (which is often the harshest) in order to save your life and the lives of your fellow soldiers in combat or whatever the case may be. How you came to be there is irrelevant. Now, if there's a mission impact study on the difference between conscripted performance versus voluntary soldier performance wrt mock pow training then that should be noted. However, the bottom line is that unit cohesion and mission accomplishment is the focal point of a professional combat unit - all soldiers must be treated a like. There cannot be a contractual distinction between conscripts & volunteers wrt to training.
#9
If only the Germans would follow the French model of E&E.
1 - Stop where you are
2 - Drop weapon
3 - Raise hands over head
4 - Learn to enjoy captivity
#10
Frank, *you* get over it. Because I disagree with you on what the point of the thread is, doesn't mean that I'm trying to "divert the thread". *You* think the issue of conscription irrelevant and unimportant, I think it relevant and significant. Deal with the fact that not everyone conforms to your point of view.
Now, your personal attacks on the other hand are *definitely* trying to divert the thread since the question of whether I am a "model EU apparatchik" or not are definitely not relevant to the issue. So leave the thread alone if (as usually), you've come not to discuss the subject but rather make jabs at me.
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2004 16:26 Comments ||
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It's obvious that things went too far here. The conscript's question is irrelevant though. No conscript is forced to participate in international missions, you can only volunteer for them.
And drafted soldiers have ample opportunities to complain to superiors if things go too far. This is not the Wehrmacht. There are few soldiers who have more rights than German ones.
Supporters of the national progressive organization, MoveOn.org, gathered at more than 1,680 house parties across the nation Sunday night to participate in a national online conference and determine what they should do to move beyond the whining and into action after the election defeat...This was the fourth MoveOn party hosted by Camila Aguilar, 44, a writer, "rabble-rouser" and astrologer, and she said she had to turn away hundreds who wanted to come... Other ideas were more radical, including a boycott of all ATM machines from companies that produced the electronic voting machines, a national strike and changing the economic paradigm of the country from consumption and production by just "not buying anything." That might be hard said Caitlin Blue, 35, of Los Angeles because her job as a set decorator for the TV sitcom "8 Simple Rules," is essentially buying things for the set. But Blue, who came to the San Francisco party because she craved the "character and content" she knew would come from the city, said she believes the progressive movement's only hope is a gathering of the minds like Sunday night.
Posted by: Warthog ||
11/22/2004 11:41:35 AM ||
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Awriiiight! Street theater, rabble-rousing, astrology, giant puppets, pink tanks! Woohoo! What more could a looney want! Come one, come all! All Blue State screechers and secessionists, be there or be square! Don't miss out! They will be lots of sex, drugs, and speechifying!
Public Service Announcement: All Rantburgers, please leave the area. Thank You. Targeting coordinates, please...
#2
Note that, after the public sector unions and George Blofeld-Soros, this freak show is the most influential fund-raising organization the Democrats have. Their problems go a lot deeper than they think.
#3
The Left is clinically insane. Really, In Marin this weekend there was a gathering of what even the local lib rag referred to as a "gathering of conspiracy theorists". The problem is they have the backing of several local politicians who are moving forward with a lawsuit to nullify the election results, and of course we all get to fit the bill. The pols are Jim March, Bev Harris, and California Attorney General Bill Lockyer. They are targeting Diebold, but the goal is to overturn the Ohio results.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
11/22/2004 12:59 Comments ||
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Interesting times we live in. I believe the Democrats will fragment in two within the next four years. It's obvious that the intra-party divide is greater now than at any time since the summer of 1968. Only Watergate prevented a crack-up then, and I doubt that Bush will hand them a similar opportunity this time.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/22/2004 13:43 Comments ||
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Good grief! - I thought this was a Scrappleface article, but it's at the actual site!
A snippet:
This was the fourth MoveOn party hosted by Camila Aguilar, 44, a writer, "rabble-rouser" and astrologer, and she said she had to turn away hundreds who wanted to come.
Sitting in circles under a canopy of leaves from a family of Australian umbrella trees named Rup, Ruppert and Ruppie -- and newcomer tree Bruno -- the activists planned.
Unreal!
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
11/22/2004 14:32 Comments ||
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Boycott the ATM machines from companies that manufactured the voting machines. Now THERE is a reall action plan that will get results!
This outfit is a piece of work. Keep up the brilliant ideas, folks. I think that you are on to something. Self-marginalizing units.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/22/2004 15:02 Comments ||
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#11
I like it when these douche bags have their little "goat rodeos." They amuse me beyond belief.
#12
Supporters of the national progressive organization, MoveOn.org, gathered at more than 1,680 house parties across the nation Sunday night to participate in a national online conference and determine what they should do to move beyond the whining and into action after the election defeat...
Haaahahahahahaaa, even the Chronicle admits that these guys were/are whining about their lot.
#13
Astrologers and conspiracy theorists? Could the moronic convergence between the so-called left and high-end fringe pop-culture be any more obvious?
Oh, well, the UFO industry kept them running in circles and out of the political loop for 50 years, much better than could have been expected.
We'll just have to invent something new to divert their authoritarian impulses and to occupay passes for their minds.
It probably never occurred to these nimrods that the UFO culture originated less than a year before the establishment of the State of Israel (summer, 1947).
Coincidence?
Bwuuuwaahaahaaaha!
#15
Thanks for the comments, but I am still safe from that rabble on the left coast. I was just spent after the election and had to take a break from the political arena for a few days. I am gearing up for 2006 to help the Republicans reclaim the State House in California. There is a proposition to make the election districts more reflective of the electorate. After we change the districts, the Dems will be lucky to get 1/3 of the State House and probably 1/4 of the State Senate. Suffice to say all is well.
#16
OK for all yuz folks, but I gotta live and work with these tin foil wearin', volvo drivin', moonbarkin' A-Wipes...and they are the majority in these parts. Everyday at work the discussion is the same.....how Bush stole the election. Cheeeezus K Reist!
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
11/22/2004 15:31 Comments ||
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Have some fun with 'em, Rex. Make 'em freak with rumors and FUD. Spread disinformation. Suggest they watch FOX so they can catch the coming invasion of Venezuela. Let them in on Bush's plans to eliminate the postal service.
Tell them that Rove's next demographic target group is african-americans and that Bill Cosby has told Ken Mehlman he wouldn't mind being Condi's running mate.
Give them the number of the nearest French consulate and tell them France has offered instant EU citizenship to any American who can demonstrate presecution by religious fundamentalists.
Sitting in circles under a canopy of leaves from a family of Australian umbrella trees named Rup, Ruppert and Ruppie -- and newcomer tree Bruno -- the activists planned.
Some said they need to go out and adopt cities in the red states...."
Hmmmm. A clue, moonbats: Naming the trees you meet under is not likely to help your street cred in Redland.
#20
If any other DC area RB'ers are interested, I'm organizing an undercover infiltration of a local Moveon meeting...my theory is that chicks that dumb can't possibly be ugly...
#21
my theory is that chicks that dumb can't possibly be ugly...
Reality will shatter your theory. I know from experience, wimminses who participate in this madness don't like men as a general rule; you can find carpet munchers and the like there if you are into that sort of thing, but trust a man of experience. Wimminses of the left is fugly.
#22
I had the most fun ever after the election. One of my LLL co-workers regurgitated the story from the Daily Kos about some counties that were predominantly Democrat voting for Bush. I listened contently on how the machines had been rigged to vote only for Bush, Haliburton was involved, and the NAACP was âhot on the trail.â He was positively glowing about the impending election turn around (in his mind) and how the recount would surely place Kerry ahead of bush in Ohio and Florida. Later that day Kerry came out with his statement to calm the moonbats and my poor guy was crushed. A married man of three was almost in tears over the fact that his party had lost the election! I would have told him to grow up but I didnât want to listen to his wail any more than necessary. Frigging girly-men!
#23
Thanks lex...good ideas all. The Postal Service thingy is great but they've already bitten on that one. LOL! However, the EU citizenship ploy has legs... heh heh.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
11/22/2004 16:11 Comments ||
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#24
Lex, Rex
You're definitely on to something.
Karl Rove's secret minions (us, the LGF lizardoids, Indy-borg, etc.) should redouble our efforts to promote seriously paranoid conspiracy theories and similar disinformation among left-conformists.
The more seriously these ideas are taken, and the more extreme they are, the farther the believer is from any viable ability to influence the real world or, indeed, from any desire to participate in the real world.
For example, the lunatic David Icke has thousands of fans who believe that reptilian overlords from the 4th dimension are conspiring with the world's governments to kidnap humans for their food supply. Many conspiracy theorists support Icke's contention that this "livestock" is being held in a secret facility beneath the Denver airport.
What chance does someone who believes this have of taking effective action on public issues? Why would they even want to, since speaking out will get them included in the next roundup?
With their aura of cultural elitism, moral authority, and corageous opposition to perceived power, these kinds of ideas appeal to the left media-conformist mindset. They also dovetail nicely with drug-culture paranoia. The existing left conspiracy theories are extreme enough to provide a simple lead-in for theories paranoid enough to take believers right out of the process.
It helps that a large part of the scientific community, Richard Dawkins and The Lancet for example, have gone over to the far left, as have a significant portion of the organized skeptic movement. Being on the same side as the conspiracy wackos will hinder their customary role in rebutting paranoid conspiracy theories and produce internecine conflict when they try.
Some skeptic organizations are mere shadows of their former selves, in fact, thanks to the cognitive dissonance of adhering to an ideology that directly contradicts their declared principles of logic, reason, and objectivity.
#25
Actually in view of the Chile episode, probably best not to play the Venezuelan invasion card. Stick to domestic issues involving evangelicals and Halliburton and such.
CNN's decline is beginning to accelerate. They just hired the man who defended CBS over the RatherGate flap and insulted Powerline, Just One Minute, Allah, Captain Ed, LGF, etc., as "pajama-clad" right-wing bloggers. As Andrew Sullivan might say, "they don't get it."
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/22/2004 1:53:26 PM ||
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"Six years steeped in the digital information industry have helped me understand today's news consumers in ways never before available to media executives," Klein said in a statement.
OK I'm sold.
Posted by: Rafael ||
11/22/2004 14:23 Comments ||
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#2
is CNN still on? I miss Judy Woodruff's turkey neck
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2004 14:37 Comments ||
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#3
Steeped in the digital information industry? That can't be good for your skin. (Maybe that's Judy's problem.)
Posted by: Matt ||
11/22/2004 14:51 Comments ||
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#4
Maybe he can do for CNN what he has done for 60 minutes? "CNN will next break a story on how Bush sold military secrets in 1970 to pay for drugs and abortions for his Black mistress. All this based on papers found left in a booth at Denny's in downtown Chicago. These documents were in a power point presentation with supporting jpegs of Bush handing documents to an unknown military officer. Nobody can ID the officer because his face is away from the camers. But a CIA source says that it looks like a Soviet double sparrow agent (code named Alexis). Kerry would later name a daughter in honor of this brave Soviet spy that took on the Bush family. Back to you Wolf."
#5
This could be fun. Time to start toying with these jokers-- spread a few stories about Cosby's interest in running as Condi's veep, or the need to invade Venezuela, or free EU citizenship for blue-state political refugees or...
All three wives of a 67-year-old Iranian man took overdoses in an unsuccessful triple suicide attempt after the youngest wife bought an expensive pair of boots, a news agency reported on Sunday.
Women and their shoe fetish, one of the great mysteries of the universe.
"My two other wives were very jealous after my 27-year-old wife bought a pair of boots for $450," the husband was quoted as saying by the ISNA student news agency.
"Aren't these just to die for?"
"After they had an argument about the price, they all attempted suicide together," he added. All three women, now in stable condition in the hospital, have separate apartments and cars.
All they need is a life
Men in Iran, where Islamic law has been in force since 1979, can marry up to four wives, although polygamy is fairly rare.
One wife at a time is expensive enough, thank you.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/22/2004 12:35:24 PM ||
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No matter what the event, the girls have to have all share in the experience don't they. ;0
#3
Note the price of the boots. Iran is a thoroughly corrupt and very wealthy country, and anyone close to the mullahs is swimming in money. Especially the mullahs.
She may not be as well know as Athena, the goddess of wisdom, or Aphrodite, the goddess of love, but Hebe, the ancient Greek goddess of youth, is at the center of a flap in Roseburg, worlds away from Mount Olympus.
At issue are the plans by city boosters to place a statue of Hebe in a city park to replace one that stood downtown almost a century ago, until it was toppled in a mishap with horses.
But some in the town see the goddess — often depicted bearing a goblet of intoxicating nectar — as a bad example for the youth of Roseburg.
"She is offering an intoxicant to the gods," resident Dick North told The Oregonian. "She doesn't uphold morality. We need to have a better model for the community's youth."
Opponents are also worried that a statue of Hebe would offend Christians and foster goddess worship.
The original Hebe in Roseburg was the brainchild of the city's Women's Temperance Union and a group that later became the Roseburg Women's Club. The two groups chose Hebe as a way to promote the benefits of water over whiskey.
The 12-foot-high fountain, which had water spigots at a height for people to drink and a lower catch basin for dogs and horses, also marked the boundary between the "wet" and "dry" sides of town.
Until recently, attempts to bring back Hebe had failed. But in 2002, the Roseburg City Council voted unanimously to allow a group to raise money for a new statue, to be placed about a block from the original perch.
This time, though, the statue ran into some stiff opposition. So far, about 150 people have signed an anti-Hebe petition — about half from Roseburg and the rest from outlying towns in Douglas County.
Two weeks ago, though, the City Council voted 4-3 to allow the statue to go forward if supporters raise the needed money by the end of next year.
Hebe backers are reinvigorated, said Thomas Whitney, a member of the fund-raising committee. Pledges and cash now top $10,000 toward a goal of at least $15,000 or possibly up to $30,000 for a different design.
But it's not what you think.
International Cricket Council (ICC) officers are mounting further investigations into accusations of corruption involving Kenya's national team members, officials said on Sunday. At least 14 players have been summoned to appear at different times between November 30 and December 2 to be interviewed by Martin Hawkins and Alan Peacock of the ICC Anti-corruption and Security Unit. The ICC in August handed former Kenya captain Maurice Odumbe a five-year ban for inappropriate contact with an Indian bookmaker. The ICC refused his request for an appeal.
Ivory Coast leader Laurent Gbagbo said Saturday he believed reports were true that French troops had decapitated local demonstrators during anti-French riots in the west African state this month. "I wasn't in the hospitals myself but everyone who went there said so: you may take it that the evidence provided by several people is true," he responded online from Abidjan to a website discussion in Paris. Asked by AFP, French army information services in Paris would say only: "We have no comment to make on this kind of statement." Cardinal Bernard Agre, Roman Catholic Archbishop of Abidjan, first made the decapitation charge, saying November 11 on Radio Vatican: "I have just come from the hospitals. It's unbearable, these young people decapitated by the French army."
Hummm, wonder if the French have any of the muslim rebels operating with their forces.
Catholic cardinal acknowledging that it happened? Good enough for me.
Thousands of Gbagbo supporters looted French property after French troops wiped out most of Ivory Coast's small air force earlier this month in retaliation for an attack by an Ivory Coast government air strike on rebel positions which also killed nine members of a French peacekeeping force. "If I had been consulted and informed before all the aircraft and military infrastructure of Ivory Coast were bombed things might not have got so out of hand," Gbagbo said in the online forum organised by the Paris magazine Nouvel Observateur.
Who ordered the bombing of the rebel/French position just before that?
Asked about alleged rape of French women during the riots, he said: "I'd like to remind you that 4,000 prisoners got out of jail that night. Draw your own conclusions".
Who handed them the keys to their cells? Scumbag.
Gbagbo said that during the riots 64 young people had been killed and some 1,300 injured "by the murderous bullets of French soldiers."
Body count seems to have gone up.
"We never had any anti-French or anti-white policy," he told the Paris discussion: "There has been much trouble in Ivory Coast. Many people have been afraid, many have even left Ivory Coast. Many have also returned and we will continue to live together." Gbagbo said his aim now was to calm matters after the riots so that normal life could resume.
And for his next trick, he's going to close Pandora's box.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/22/2004 8:59:17 AM ||
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I think "decaptitation" could be replaced with "large caliber head shot", to clear up any misunderstandings. Much of a muchness.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/22/2004 9:54 Comments ||
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Anonymoose - my thinking exactly.... that video link the other day showing the head shot might qualify as decapitating - he was hamburger
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/22/2004 10:05 Comments ||
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#4
Two stories here: (1) are the Frenchies now using "overwhelming force?" I think not (lean toward the large calbier head shots, myself), and (2) why the heck are the MSM STILL using "I haven't seen it myself, but I know this pizza delivery guy who saw it and I believe him" type "witnesses?" (I think we all know the answer to that one.).
Posted by: BA ||
11/22/2004 11:02 Comments ||
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#5
The video didn't leave me with the warm and fuzzys. It looked like random shooting into crowds.
The decision last Monday by the U.N. Security Council to impose an arms embargo on Ivory Coast -- with the possibility of further sanctions -- was necessary to slow the spiral toward chaos in what once was West Africa's oasis of stability and relative prosperity. The simmering conflict in Ivory Coast threatens the region, already buffeted by brutal war and crises. It is also a broader security concern because terrorist organizations, including al Qaeda and Hezbollah, have established sanctuaries in West Africa. More unrest will offer them new opportunities to become entrenched.
To understand events in Ivory Coast, the world's largest cocoa producer, one must understand the destructive role played by the nation's president, Laurent Gbagbo, and his xenophobic inner circle. In late November 2000, the newly elected Gbagbo met privately with the ambassadors of France, the United States and Britain. With his country teetering on the edge of civil war, Gbagbo agreed to allow the main opposition party, excluded from the presidential contest and made up mostly of Muslims from the north, to participate in scheduled parliamentary elections.
Gbagbo had narrowly defeated a despised military officer in violence-marred elections in which less than 30 percent of the eligible voters cast ballots. His openly anti-Muslim campaign rhetoric and promises to purge Ivory Coast of foreigners were largely lost in the chaos of the moment. Gbagbo promised to announce the agreement in a televised address to the nation. But a cabinet minister appeared instead to announce that the opposition was banned and also to challenge the right of its members to citizenship. It was the first step in Gbagbo's effort to undo four decades of policies that had successfully encouraged racial and religious harmony.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/22/2004 12:19:38 AM ||
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Stable prosperous predominantly christian country attracts large numbers of muslims immigrants and becomes unstable hellhole. Nah, too obvious!
#5
You probably won't get a real deal from the MSM if it implies that one part of the story here is that France is pursuing a neo-colonialist policy in west Africa. Which has been the case for nearly half a century.
#6
Article: But the rebels gained a foothold because of Gbagboâs single-minded determination to split his country along ethnic and religious lines while entrenching himself in power.
The Muslim rebels are illegal immigrants imported into Ivory Coast by the French. WaPo calls Gbagbo's efforts to turn back this invasion an attempt to "split the country along ethnic and religious lines". This is just gaspingly arrogant on WaPo's part. Maybe it is WaPo's opinion that they all look alike, but I doubt Ivory Coast's citizens feel that way. I can just imagine WaPo characterizing an effort to close our borders to Mexico an attempt to "split the country along ethnic and religious lines".
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
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Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
