An exhibit featuring a film about US President George W. Bush's home town in Texas won the Turner Prize, pipping a digital recreation of Osama bin Laden's house. Jeremy Deller, 38, a British artist was announced the winner ahead of three shortlisted rivals at the Tate Britain gallery in central London and awarded a cheque for 25,000 pounds. "Memory Bucket", documenting his travels last year through the US state of Texas, features various encounters with locals, including a survivor of the Waco siege, and takes a look around Bush's favourite burger bar near his ranch. Deller's unnarrated film concludes with the image of millions of bats emerging from a cave at sunset and blackening the sky.
That's it? No secret plan to steal the oil, no oppressing the poor, no dead baby ducks? What the hell has happened to the Turner Prize that they've suck this low? And where the hell did I put my video camera?
Accepting the 20th annual Turner Prize award, Deller thanked "everyone who recycles, those who look after wildlife and bats, and the Quaker movement". He thanked the teacher who did not allow him to take an art examination in his school days, saying: "It's probably a good thing. If I had taken it, I probably wouldn't be here so it was a good decision." He said his work was "about Bush but it's not anti-Bush." "I'm surprised and shocked," he said. "It hasn't really sunk in to be honest... you don't make things like this to win prizes, you do it to satisfy yourself. This is ultimately a personal thing about what I'm interested in." His creation was seen as a comparatively tame for an award which is known for attracting controversy.
I know I'm shocked, there's not one cross in a vat of urine
Previous winners of the prize, awarded to a British artist under the age of 50, include Damien Hirst, Chris Ofili, and, last year, transvestite potter Grayson Perry.
My personnel favorite
Others on the 2004 shortlist included the duo Ben Langlands and Nikki Bell, who recreated an interactive digital model of bin Laden's former house in Afghanistan. Yinka Shonibare, who was born in London and grew up in Nigeria, and Turkish-born Kutlug Ataman were the other final competitors for the prize. Deller, the youngest of those shortlisted, was previously best known for works such as "Acid Brass", in which a brass band played contemporary dance music, and a meticulous recreation, using actors, of a battle between striking coal miners and police in the 1980s.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/07/2004 11:05:47 AM ||
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How can this be??? A reward for honest reporting. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of such a thing before. I feel so confused. There must hidden, subliminal text within the document to brainwash us.
BRITISH police were probing why a top secret file detailing security arrangements for the visit of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf to Britain this week was found abandoned on a London street. The 17-page document was reportedly found by a delivery driver in a brown envelope on upmarket Curzon Street hours before General Musharraf and his wife touched down at Heathrow from Washington on Sunday. Titled "Visit of His Excellency General Pervez Musharraf, President of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan", the papers reportedly disclosed the security arrangements at the London hotel where the president and his entourage were staying. The dossier containing maps showing General Musharraf's movements, explaining how to identify undercover police, and giving details of police radio channels and secret police call signs, was given to the Daily Mirror newspaper.
Did the Brits hire Frenchies to handle this operation?
"The documents did not detail personal protection arrangements for the president," said a spokesman from London's Metropolitan Police. "His personal protection was not affected. "Our understanding is that they were found by a member of the public and handed in to the Mirror, who gave them to us yesterday," he said. "We have reviewed our policing operation, and liaised with the Pakistan High Commission." An investigation has been launched by the police's Directorate of Professional Standards into the circumstances surrounding the loss of the documents. General Musharraf is in London for talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair. The Pakistani High Commission and Mr Blair's office did not comment on the security blunder.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/07/2004 5:27:01 AM ||
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Assuming it's an original, which the article fails to specify...
Given the limited distribution of such a document and what it did - and did not - contain, the suspect list must be quite short, indeed. Good hunting, boys. Either someone is a PakiWaki jihadi symp - or someone is about to be incredibly embarrassed:
"Gentlepersons, please sign back in the dossiers you were given. Thank you."
#2
whoa! Sounds like the drop didn't go as planned. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out who was the culprit. Wonder if Tony's got the cahoneys to perform a public hanging.
Chechen warlords are trying to get to Western countries via Georgia, official spokesman for the regional counter-terrorist HQ in the North Caucasus, Major-General Ilya Shabalkin told RIA Novosti. "Georgian officials have provided refugees from the Pankisi Gorge with the opportunity of moving to any European countries. According to the returning refugees and some other sources, including detained bandits, warlords are trying to make the most of this circumstance," said Gen. Shabalkin. "To this end, middling warlords try to get to Georgia via Chechnya disguised as refugees. This is the category of bandits who could have accumulated substantial funds by cheating other ordinary members of the illegal armed formations," said Gen. Shabalkin.
Pilfered the widows and orphens explosives fund, took the petty cash and split.
He emphasized that the accumulated sums of money thereby would let militants settle down abroad and lead a wealthy life.
Following in the great tradition of dictators everywhere, they'll head to France.
"They find it quite dangerous to stay and hide in Chechnya. Thereby, they are trying to escape fair retribution and Russian justice," stressed Gen. Shabalkin. He did not rule it out that many of these bandits would form organized illegal communities and gangs in the countries where they intend to move. "According to the returned refugees, Shamil Basayev [a Chechen separatist warlord] has turned to leaders of international radical extremist groups based in Arab countries, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Turkey and some others. He allegedly assured them of his readiness to continue bandit activities in Chechnya and to organize terrorist attacks all across Russia," said Gen. Shabalkin. In his words, Basayev has asked international terrorist organizations to provide additional funds and also to send new groups of foreign mercenaries to Chechnya who would be ready to fight for the so-called Caliphate in the North Caucasus
."Send warriors, guns and money..."
"According to many citizens returning from Pankisi, Basayev's address indicates that bandits in Chechnya are suffering substantial losses not only in terms of money and ordinary militants, but in terms of warlords of the lower and middle rank," said Gen. Shabalkin. He also noted that this was due to the effective efforts of the federal forces and local law-enforcers relying on the support of the local population. Gen. Shabalkin told RIA Novosti that about 300 Chechen refugees had recently returned home from Pankisi, Georgia. In his words, the Russian consulate in Georgia provides all-out assistance in preparing the documents required for their return to Russia.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/07/2004 2:27:19 AM ||
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AUSTRALIA would double anti-terrorism aid funding for Indonesia to $20 million in the next year, Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said today. Mr Downer said that terrorism remained a threat in Indonesia. But he also told business leaders in Jakarta that Indonesia's transition this year to full democracy had increased Australia's confidence in its giant neighbour, helping ease security jitters after a string of deadly attacks. "That is quite an extraordinary transition in this country," he told the Indonesia-Australia Business Council. "I think that has had a very strong impact in Australia. "I think amongst ordinary Australians the thought that today Indonesia is a democracy, a credible democracy, that its elections were free and fair elections, that not just the winners celebrated their victory, but the losers accepted their defeat. I think this type of transition in Indonesia has really penetrated public consciousness in Australia."
Mr Downer yesterday met Indonesia's new President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono on the sidelines of a summit for moderate religious leaders aimed at combating sectarian extremists. Mr Downer, who has worked with five Indonesian leaders, said his reception from the new Indonesian government was the warmest he had encountered. It set the scene for a renaissance in relations that hit a low in 1999 brought about by the post-independence vote slaughter in East Timor and Australia's peacekeeping intervention there. Mr Downer faced questions from business leaders on why the government refused to drop tough travel warnings against Indonesia, which were impacting on investment between the two neighbours. He said the Government had a duty to inform Australians about the risk of more terrorist attacks, especially in light of the recent Australian embassy bombing in Jakarta.
"At the end of the day we can only tell people what we believe to be the truth: that is that there is the possibility of terrorist attacks in Indonesia," he said. "I agree it's had some impact on business and certainly an impact on visitors. That's one of the reasons why we work with the Indonesians so enthusiastically in the area of counter-terrorism. If we can fix the problem the travel advisories will fix themselves." He said Australia would increase its anti-terror aid over the year ahead. "We have spent about $10 million so far on counter-terrorism activities in Indonesia," he said. "Now we are going to double that figure over the next year to $20 million."
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/07/2004 5:24:17 AM ||
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Australian Federal Police (AFP) Commissioner Mick Keelty is calling for expanded police powers to combat terrorism. He says police need greater powers to force terror suspects to say who they work with and what they know about planned attacks. "If society really expects law enforcement to prevent and disrupt terrorist activity, then we need to look at other models that are working or that are under development in other parts of the world," he said.
"We really want to take a look at Morocco's new Truncheon XJ6.1®"
Mr. Keelty says the AFP's overseas counterparts have a greater ability to force suspects to provide information about planned attacks. "These include questions such as the person's identity and movements, what the person knows about a recent explosion or another recent incident endangering life and what they know about a person killed or injured in a recent explosion or incident," he said. Mr Keelty was speaking to a conference of criminologists in Melbourne last night.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/07/2004 5:11:43 PM ||
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#8
The list of "approved" tools is so long the photo would become totally messy. We could always use the old rubber hose, the hand-cranked telephone and naked wires, bamboo splinters, a good set of truncheons, a dull axe, a vial of acid, some barbed wire, a straight razor,... I'm sure you get the idea. As in any job, it's not the tools that are important, but the person using them. A skilled practitioner can get the necessary information from anyone.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/07/2004 14:50 Comments ||
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Turkey must be barred from joining the European Union due to its "culture" and Muslims in Germany have to make far bigger efforts to integrate, Bavarian Premier Edmund Stoiber told opposition conservatives on Tuesday. "An out-of-Europe nation like Turkey with its different history and diffent cultural traditions will not fit into Europe," said Stoiber in a speech to a Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party congress. Stoiber, who was narrowly defeated by Social Democratic Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder in Germany's 2002 general election, said he backed a rejectionist stance to Turkish EU membership outlined by CDU chief Angela on Monday. Highlighting of Turkey by both leaders indicates the CDU/CSU sees a "nein" to Ankara's EU membership as a sure vote winner in the next election in 2006 in which Merkel expected to be Schroeder's challenger.
Stoiber said Turkey and the 25 EU member states were divided by a host of issues including economy, geography and finances but "above all by cultural differences". Taking in Turkey would reduce the EU to a mere free trade zone and put too much strain on the Union's joint institutions, said Stoiber. EU leaders are due to decide on whether to begin membership negotiations with Turkey at a 16 to 17 December summit in Brussels. Even if a green light is given, accession talks are expected to last up to 15 years.
With breaks for lunch.
Stoiber also had blunt words for the estimated 3.4 million Moslems living in Germany of whom ethnic Turks comprise about 2.5 million. "Our nation demands from immigrants the will to integrate," he said, adding that the chief problem today was a lack of will by the second and third generation born in German to do this. Those living in Germany have to learn the language, accept German values and send their children to German schools, he said. There was no space in Germany for "preachers of hate" or the oppression of women, Stoiber said. "To those who do not want to accept this, all we can say is 'you picked the wrong country'," he said to applause.
Works for me.
Stoiber insisted German patriotism was not aimed at foreigners but rather at getting all those who lived in the country to accept Germany's rule of law and democracy. On other issues, Stoiber slammed Schroeder for Germany's weak economy and said the CDU/CSU needed to take power in 2006 to push through big state spending cuts and other reforms to cut unemployment which is over 10 percent and rising. He also called for scrapping a Schroeder government ban on nuclear power stations under which all such plants - currently producing 30 percent of German electricity - will be phased out in the next two decades.
TGA, how is this playing in Germany?
Posted by: Steve ||
12/07/2004 12:42:59 PM ||
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Turkey must be barred from joining the European Union due to its "culture" and Muslims in Germany have to make far bigger efforts to integrate, Bavarian Premier Edmund Stoiber told opposition conservatives on Tuesday.
#6
Many of the Turks in Germany are second and even third generation. They don't speak Turkish, and they resent their reality as second class citizens. Its the alQaeda types who come for the free university and space to plot to establish the Caliphate who are more of a concern.
#7
Trainling wife, I agree completely! In any culture (and obviously including our own) those who choose to participate and assimilate are not the problem. And assimilation doesn't have to include any loss of the original culture...just a willingness to work within the new one, including language and laws.
The Turks have been staunch allies for some time. But blocking us access to Northern Iraq at the start of the invasion is still troubling.
#8
I'd have a little more sympathy for these f'ers had they seen a little clearer two years ago. They's goin to be more and more Europeen eyes opened as time goes by. These curvy knifed folks don't assimilate well.
#9
Hank don't you think in the interests of full disclosure you should mention that you are in direct competition with these fellas in the Home Heating Industry?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 20:11 Comments ||
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I did attend the congress. And yes I agree.
Nobody will force Turks to eat bratwurst. The key problem is the language. Children only speak Turkish at home and with their friends. Many Turks can't read three sentences of German fluently at High School.
This is not xenophobia, this is common sense. We can't allow imams trained in Saudi Arabia flown into Germany teaching Muslim kids to hate kufr Germany. We don't want parts of our cities to become extraterritorial like some Parisian banlieu slum.
Quite a few Turks agree with that assessment btw.
One in three of France's imams don't speak French, the country's interior minister said in an interview published Tuesday, proposing initiatives to help Islamic religious leaders better adapt. "Today, of the 1,200 imams who practice in our country, 75 percent are not French and one-third do not speak our language," Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin told the daily Le Parisien. "This is not acceptable. In France, we should have French imams speaking French," he said.
Can't have that, you can only quote from the holy book in the holy language of Arabic.
Villepin called for theological and secular training for future imams, a measure he said would be implemented next year. Additional steps should be taken to ensure that imams who already are practicing get further training, he added. Measures aimed at getting imams to integrate into French society do not violate a 1905 law providing for the separation of church and state, Villepin said. Rather, they will help balance freedom of religion and the neutrality of the state, he said. Citing the overwhelmingly moderate version of Islam in France - only 50 of 1,685 Muslim places of worship are deemed to have radical ties - Villepin said he is committed to helping Islam find its place in this country. "Islam in France is tolerant and more calm than we imagine," he said. "It legitimately aspires to find its place within the republic."
It's much easier to take over a country from the inside.
Villepin also expressed support for the creation of a foundation to manage money destined for Muslim groups in France and better control currently unrestricted funding, an idea opposed by the Union of Islamic Organizations of France.
All that cash with no controls. Makes your mouth water, doesn't it, Dominique?
Posted by: Steve ||
12/07/2004 10:17:44 AM ||
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"Dominique de Villepin? Feh! We don't take no orders from a woman!...er..what?"
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 10:38 Comments ||
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Boy have they got their priorities straight in France. Obviously, addressing the language being used is so much more important than addressing anti-Semitic, anti-Western sermons coming from the pulpits.
#4
Yeah, let the Imams speak French. Then the govt can arrest them for adding Non-French words to their sermons, like jihad, dhimmi, Ulema, Caliphate, you got the picture.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/07/2004 11:54 Comments ||
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Well, I imagine French security has many more French-speakers than Arabic-speakers, so requiring sermons to be in French would make it a trifle easier to monitor what's being advocated in the mosques. Doesn't help much with the after-hours study groups, though.
Posted by: James ||
12/07/2004 13:47 Comments ||
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"the after-hours study groups"
Ah, you must mean Islamic Engineering 101: Bomb Design and Application.
;-)
#7
Ahhh.. if they classify mosques as businesses, I think they've already got a legal basis for forcing them to speak French.
Also, it occurs to me that martyrdom might be less attractive in French... who would want to be with THE 72 virgins, especially considering how many martyrs had gone before him?
#8
It not the language it's is the theology. 99% of west doesn't get it is the theology that is the problem not the language. No way in hell you are going to get them to change their theology. All you can do is send them back to "Islamland" contain them and wait a few centuries for them to catch up.
#10
It not the language it's is the theology. 99% of west doesn't get it is the theology that is the problem not the language. No way in hell you are going to get them to change their theology.
SPoD: For a minute there I thought you were talking about the donks hiring that Berkley professor to come up with new words to help relate to those red-state religious folk! lol!
Posted by: BA ||
12/07/2004 20:43 Comments ||
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TWO French police officers will face disciplinary proceedings after bungling a training exercise that caused a slab of explosives to be placed on a flight out of Charles de Gaulle airport, the headquarters of the gendarmerie in Paris said today. The two men are also being suspended from their functions as dog-handlers because of "grave professional misconduct."
Police services around the world were continuing to hunt for the 150 grams of explosives - the size of a bar of chocolate - which left Paris on an unknown flight on Friday evening. Experts said the material was harmless because it was not connected to a detonator. In a routine test, the two dog-handlers placed the bar of explosives inside a random bag as it passed on a conveyor belt between check-in and the aircraft loading bays. One dog successfully detected the item, but the other did not. Before it had the chance of a second attempt, the bag had been taken off towards its destination. Yesterday, Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin described the police behaviour as "reprehensible and scandalous" and promised an investigation.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/07/2004 5:33:00 AM ||
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"In a routine test, the two dog-handlers placed the bar of explosives inside a random bag..."
doesn't that stuff leave a residue even after you remove it from the bag?
Posted by: jeff ||
12/07/2004 10:30 Comments ||
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Yeah, Jeff. Somebody is gonna get screwed someplace by security. And who's going to believe his story that the French did it?
House Republicans yesterday called for U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan to resign in light of the oil-for-food scandal and threatened to withhold funding from the United Nations unless it fully cooperates with investigators. "The oil-for-food program is a scandal of enormous proportions, and it may reach into the highest levels of leadership at the U.N.," said Rep. Roger Wicker, the Mississippi Republican who introduced a resolution yesterday calling for Mr. Annan to resign. "I don't think we'll get all the facts as long as Mr. Annan is remaining at the helm," Mr. Wicker said. Nineteen Republicans and one Democrat — Rep. Gene Taylor of Mississippi — had signed the resolution, as of late yesterday.
snip
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 12:42:32 PM ||
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[T]he United Nations' credibility has been steadily eroded by its own misdeeds, with a burgeoning scandal over its incompetent and sometimes corrupt management of the Iraq oil-for-food program being the most damaging example. Last week it was reported that the son of U.N. secretary general Kofi Annan received a series of payments from a Swiss firm that won a lucrative contract under the oil-for-food program. This development has fed growing doubts that the United Nations will be able to own up to its problems or reform its operations so long as Annan remains at the helm.
But mismanagement, corruption, and manipulation of the program by Saddam Hussein allowed his regime to amass at least $21 billion outside of the United Nations' control, with the great bulk of that sum -- $17.3 billion -- pilfered between 1997 and 2003 on the secretary general's watch. In effect, the United Nations colluded in Saddam's successful evasion of U.N. sanctions. The most damning charge so far -- that a former chief of the oil-for-food program, Benon Sevan, accepted bribes from Saddam's regime -- was made in October by former U.N. weapons inspector Charles A. Duelfer, who led a Senate investigation into the scandal. The program is now the subject of at least four congressional investigations, three U.S. federal investigations and the U.N.-appointed commission of inquiry led by former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker.
Sen. Norm Coleman (R-MN), chairman of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, has underscored the urgency of such investigations, noting not only that the size of the fraud is "staggering," but also that some of Saddam's vast illicit stash might right now be funding terrorists and costing American lives. In an opinion piece in last week's Wall Street Journal, Coleman urged Annan to resign. "As long as Mr. Annan remains in charge, the world will never be able to learn the full extent of the bribes, kickbacks and under-the-table payments that occurred under the U.N.'s collective nose."
Annan's handling of the fallout over the past week has done nothing to improve his perceived credibility: He has refused requests from congressional committees for access to the United Nation's 55 internal audits and other reports, or for the chance to interview U.N. officials who oversaw the program, saying that it would interfere with the Volcker inquiry. That inquiry is expected to release an interim report in January. The full report could take another year and cost as much as $30 million -- to be funded with leftover cash in the oil-forfood program.
Annan's intransigence should not deter the Senate subcommittee on investigations or other congressional investigations. Volcker can hardly be expected to conduct a thorough and unbiased inquiry into a scandal in which the U.N. secretary general and his son are involved. The world deserves a full and thorough accounting of what transpired. The sooner the United Nations can get past this matter, the sooner it can get back to the important business of making itself an effective instrument for collective security against terrorism, failed states, and acts of genocide, a goal that Annan has strongly supported. The secretary general should place this critical mission ahead of his personal interests, and step aside. Given his own lack of credibility on the oil-for-food program, this step is the price Annan must pay to help restore the U.N.'s credibility, and to salvage his legacy as secretary general.
Bad news for Republicans. Some Dhimmicrats are starting to understand.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 9:20:29 AM ||
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some of Saddamâs vast illicit stash might right now be funding terrorists and costing American lives
To way too many of the UN's members, that statement would be considered a positive point for Kofi's management style. The only thing that would make it better to them is if he said Jews were dying because of it, too.
#3
The New Dems On Line will be harshly criticized for this by the old line left but eventually they (the NDOL) will win as more and more gets out about the UNSCAM.
#5
while I will miss the feeling of superiority I get when comparing myself to the professional moonbats on the left, it would be beneficial to all of us if sane democrats managed to above the dung to provide real debate and real solutions for today's problems.
#6
'Course the Dems could simply be angry they didn't get a cut.
Seriously,I think this is Dem attempt to stop public investigation of UN. If Kofi resigns now,some new guy/gal can come in and say "It's terrible what happened,but that's in the past,I'm going to clean up UN so it won't happen again,yadda,yadda,yadda." Supporters of the UN(most Dems)have to be horrified at the thought of Sen.Coleman holding public hearings,esp.since the Dems fav Repub,Sen.McCain,is supporting Coleman.
Posted by: Stephen ||
12/07/2004 12:22 Comments ||
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Israelis are not dying directly as a result of Saddam's programs anymore: the payments of US$10,000-25,000 to families of suicide bombers ceased with the invasion of Iraq. However, I would not at all be surprised if those who control the hidden band accounts continue to fund various Palestinian terrorist groups aimed at Israel. But these days I imagine their funding efforts must be mostly aimed at reclaiming Iraq from the invaders -- a textbook example of throwing good money after bad.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 17:01 Comments ||
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Better if Kofi stays and the UN becomes completely irrelevant. There's no way to reform the UN. The problem's not Kofi but the fetish of national sovereignty and France's UNSC veto. The best outcome is for us to create a parallel organization, bypass the UN, and let the world gradually become convinced of Kofi's incompetence and the UN's uselessness.
An US army deserter has begun making his case for political refugee status so he can stay in Canada. Jeremy Hinzman, 25, is the first of three US deserters to appear before a refugee and immigration board in the city of Toronto, seeking asylum. The paratrooper served in Afghanistan but left the US for Canada after his unit was ordered into Iraq last year. Mr Hinzman, who took his wife and son with him to Toronto, says he believes the US-led war in Iraq is illegal. He said: "If you're given an illegal or immoral order, it's your duty and obligation to refuse it. I felt the order to Iraq went under that."
Mr Hinzman's mouthpiece lawyer is presenting what he says is evidence of US war crimes in Iraq at the hearing. And a left-wing lobby group of nutters campaigning on Mr Hinzman's behalf argues that he was merely obeying international law by refusing to fight in Iraq because the United Nations never authorised the use of force there. But immigration experts point out that Mr Hinzman voluntarily signed up to join the US army in January 2001, knowing that it might involve service overseas.
Oh yeah, there is that.
No American citizen has ever made a successful refugee claim in Canada, although it is thought the prisoner abuse scandals in Iraq may help his case. If Mr Hinzman loses his bid to win asylum in Canada, he faces deportation to the US and up to five years in prison for desertion.
Posted by: tipper ||
12/07/2004 1:17:51 AM ||
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Revoke his citzenship. Then he can truly claim asylum.
Posted by: ed ||
12/07/2004 1:26 Comments ||
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#2
Given recent Kanadian political moonbattery, they'll prolly accept one soon - to "Show the Evil American Beast" they're not afraid. Yawn.
Time to check on the progress of that Northern Friendship Fence, again?
#3
I hope gets his fill of sex with his wife and hugs his son, because when it's over, he won't like where his sex or his hugs will be coming from. He's a coward plain and simple. His life is no more important than all the men and women currently serving honorably in hotspots around the world.
After his jail time, they should revoke his citizenship.
#8
It's not the 60s, it's not a draft Army. Its an all volunteer force. He signed the contract, he took the money. However, then there is that recent opening in N.Korea for an American deserter to backfill. The Canadians can make it an exchange to show their humanitarian side by saving some real refugees.
Posted by: Don ||
12/07/2004 10:16 Comments ||
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#9
The paratrooper served in Afghanistan
So he served in Afghanistan but refused to serve in Iraq? There's so many different angles on that it hurts my head thinking about it.
Posted by: Charles ||
12/07/2004 12:08 Comments ||
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#10
I'm sure all those goofballs who threatened to move to Canada after the election are watching this closely.
Following is the full text of President Bush's speech to Marines at Camp Pendleton, Calif., Tuesday, Dec. 7, 2004, as transcribed by The Federal Document Clearing House. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you all. Thank you for the warm welcome.
It was getting a little quiet back at the White House...
(LAUGHTER)
... so I decided to drop in on the Devil Dogs. The rest at the link.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/07/2004 2:56:32 PM ||
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If you compare this item to the Terry McAuliffe item right above it, it's not hard to see why the election turned out the way it did.
Posted by: Matt ||
12/07/2004 15:43 Comments ||
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#2
General Sattler recently visited with some of the wounded in the Fallujah campaign. One Marine was pretty beat up, but when he saw the general he lifted his hand and said, "Sir, I've still got my trigger finger. I can get back out there." That is the spirit of the Corps.
#3
I just watched this for the second time on Fox.
You absolutely must see the film clip of Bush as he heads to the podium to speak to the troops at Pendleton. You will never see or hear a more raucous ear-splitting welcome in your whole life. This is the CinC and His People - and it phreakin' rocks. The level of mutual respect and admiration is awesome and palpable. These people are being asked to execute the pointed end of the Bush Policy... to die if necessary - and they LOVE the man who's doing the asking. We Americans are blessed beyond words.
Now picture anyone in the Dhimmidonk party, absolutely anyone, and what reception they would receive from the men and women at Pendleton. Try Dean or Skeery and let your imagination conjure up what that reception would be like.
#4
a good speech and on TV (Fox, of course) his heartfelt pride and praise (and condolences) came through...to the point of tearing up at times
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 16:15 Comments ||
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#5
It was the exact same thing at the Army-Navy game. The Navy locker room even had the jerseys of their fallen comrades framed on the wall. These men and women know what they are being asked to do, and they do it well. Hoo-ah! Dubya!
#7
"...The terrorist[s] understand what is at stake. They know they have no future in a free Iraq, because free people will never choose their own enslavement."
Or said another way, terrorists are enslavers of humanity. Chillingly true. Best line.
#8
It's too bad the former CIA station chief who sent that defeatist cable couldn't have joined the President on this trip.
"Sir, request permission to light the dude up, sir."
Posted by: Matt ||
12/07/2004 17:41 Comments ||
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#9
Interesting... we know of our "Greatest Generation" and how Americans supported our troops. Check out any of the MSM and their history programs to tell us this.
Americans want to support this "Great Generation." Those of us here, know, through the Internet, lots of ways to extend our support.
My family, in the heart of JesusLand in the heart of a Red State, don't know how. At home, during Thanksgiving, I was appalled at just what my family didn't know. And I'm just a lit'le old lady in Texas, but I know how to use the Internet, so I don't have to depend on my "yellow dog, liberal, local newspaper (the heart of the blue state in Texas, Austin) to get my news and form my opinions. With each "story" I told, they wanted to know, "where do you get this info?" They want to support.... just didn't know how.
Yet, I just watched, through Fox, our CIC with his troops (bless each one of them and get down on those knees and thank God we gave them 4 more years of their CIC) ..... and in his speech, he actually gave, twice..... a web address of where we, citizens of the USA could go, to find lots of ways to support our troops.
Did the MSM play this part of his speech? If you want to place a bet with me on this... I'll take the bet!~~~ And win.....
I had to watch (read) the speech, to find this part.
Looks like W is taking his message to the people.... and bypassing the media. Wonder how long it will be before they realize this is what he is doing? He went straight to the Marines with his message!!!!!!! "kinda quiet at the White House, so I thought I would drop in on the Devil Dogs."
No, the MSM will continue to misunderestimate him. Now, I just have to figure a way to get his message to my family.... Brian Williams (nor none of the MSM) isn't gonna do it.
The Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC), one of the most adroit and deceptive Islamist groups in America, is preparing its fourth annual convention, which will be held in Long Beach, CA on December 18. It is beyond predictability that this unfortunate event, with participation by some of America's worst apologists for and adherents of Islamist extremism, will hear from its podium extensive complaints that American Muslims are targets of slander, hate, and threats from ordinary non-Muslims, and protests against "ethnic profiling," as well as other forms of purported harassment, by law enforcement.
But the same MPAC that comports itself as if it had no Islamist nature whatever, and had only just heard about Wahhabism and other radical doctrines, also targets and even profiles people. That was what MPAC chief executive Salam al-Marayati did on radio within hours of the September 11 atrocities. According to The New York Times of October 22, 2001, he told station KCRW, "If we're going to look at suspects we should look to the groups that benefit the most from these kinds of incidents, and I think we should put the state of Israel on the suspect list because I think this diverts attention from what's happening in the Palestinian territories so that they can go on with their aggression and occupation and apartheid policies."
MPAC targets people, and with the release of propaganda for their convention, they have selected an impressive range of individuals they hope to marginalize. On the garish poster they have put on line, at www.mpac.org, five individuals are shown, identified as "THE FACES THAT ARE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT TERRORISM:" Osama bin Laden, Daniel Pipes of the Middle East Forum, Rev. Pat Robertson, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and terrorism expert Steven Emerson, who heads the Investigative Project, the most comprehensive counter-terrorist institute in the world today. The Investigative Project is uniquely effective in tracking the activities of Islamic militant groups.
Continued on Page 49
#1
This lengthy article in the City Journal by the wonderful Heather MacDonald deserves at least one extracted quote:
If the government were serious about ending illegal entry and its threat to national security, it would fund adequate detention space.
But the administration seems determined to maintain the schizophrenic status quo: we try to catch trespassers at the border, but once they slip across, they're home free.
Finally, putting national security ahead of political correctness would mean ending the special status granted Mexican illegals.
President Bush should announce that henceforth, illegal entry will be treated like the crime that it is. To be against alien lawbreakers is not to be against immigrants, he should explain. Border laws protect the country for those immigrants who respect America's laws. Our inability to control who comes into the country is our biggest security threat, he should explain, and we must empower every branch of law enforcement to apprehend the lawbreakers. Washington should allocate the resources to detain and deport illegals, and should start enforcing long-standing laws against employing alien lawbreakers. A deafening roar of "racism" will result; but with the country at war, pandering to the race advocates must give way to protecting American lives.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 9:43 Comments ||
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#2
I think we also need to halt the flow of federal funds to cities, counties, and states who refuse to abide by our immigration laws but provide 'sainctuary' to illegals and terrorists by outlawing cooperation betweeen local law enforcement and federal law enforcement. In many cases the local cops cannot even investigate (or ask) if a person is an illegal alien or not.
Also we need to point out that illegals are not, legally, immigrants and stop the verbal association between illegal aliens who are lawbreakers and the image of the immigrant (who are welcome and made this country great!) who comes here legally and are law abiding. Legally there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant since (obviously) illegals have not been granted immigration status.
#3
Ah, just annex Mexico and give it Commonwealth status as PR. Imperialism? Yep, just ending Mexico's stealth imperalism. You don't respect my southern border then there is no need for me to respect your northern border.
Posted by: Don ||
12/07/2004 10:24 Comments ||
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#4
Don, the problem is we don't want Mexico. They would prefer we pay for everything and we will if the border for the US ends up next too Honduras.
Posted by: Charles ||
12/07/2004 11:30 Comments ||
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#5
Well said, Mrs. D. CrazyFool-I like your ideas too-let's add community colleges and other educational institutions to the list. They need to start demanding that students present acceptable forms of ID, including soc #s, to be able to attend classes in the US.
Tipper, you always post the best articles. This one's a keeper.
#6
I think we also need to halt the flow of federal funds to cities, counties, and states who refuse to abide by our immigration laws but provide 'sainctuary' to illegals and terrorists by outlawing cooperation betweeen local law enforcement and federal law enforcement. In many cases the local cops cannot even investigate (or ask) if a person is an illegal alien or not.
An *excellent* idea. Too bad GWB wouldn't have the balls to put this into practice for fear of offending Latinos. (even though illegals include others besides Latinos)
#7
Exactly, BAR. Exposes the Achilles Heel of the Repubs--the party is split into those who stand up for rule of law and those who don't. Those who advocate rule of law have a couple representatives in the Repub party on the immigration issue. Those who don't advocate rule of law easily fit into Dem circles on immigration and that says something. Amazing that we're at this juncture with so little leadership from our governmental reps after 9/11-apparently, it is insignificant to them that the hijackers were in the US on false IDs.
On the bill coming out of the 911 report, the common denominator of bipartisanship was not rule of law or the safety of the US.
#8
Let's present the Mexican Government with a fat bill at the end of each year to cover all Federal, State and municipal services given to persons entering illegally from Mexico. If they don't pay, yank their $20+ million per annum in foreign aid.
#9
The WH has no business sending our soldiers to fight in foreign wars, claiming it's to make our nation safer, all the while letting every illegal Miguel and Mohammed to come through our southern border. It's just a matter of time before we suffer the consequences of our President's oversight. And btw what's the point of doing deep body cavity searches on airline passengers to the tune of billions of dollars of year, when terrorists can choose to bring an array of nasty goods across the deserts of California or Arizona using Mexican soldiers as escorts? If GWB's overt pandering to business interests and Latino votes were't so dangerous to our national security, this would be a comic situation kind of like a Keystone Cops film. GWB's open borders mentality has nothing to do with being compassionate. If you all feel "more safe" because Saddam has been removed inspite of our open borders here, you must be drinking some pretty expensive Egg Nog.
#12
Let's see... how many things can you accomplish at once? No, a step-wise approach isn't allowed. Satisfy all of MY concerns at once or you're shit. Everything you've done is shit. Me Me Me. You have to commit political suicide every time I have a tic about an issue. ME ME ME! You're SHIT Bush! I'm the Great Arbiter of All Things!
#13
Jules, the problem with Social Security #s is that they are so easy to forge. Birth Certificates are not much better and need to be standardized. A passport or greencard would be better ID but not everyone has a passport. A drivers license is worse then useless.
We may well need a [puts on asbestos suit] national ID card to prove citizenship.
#14
GS: The WH has no business sending our soldiers to fight in foreign wars, claiming it's to make our nation safer, all the while letting every illegal Miguel and Mohammed to come through our southern border.
Our troops fight abroad so we don't have to fight at home. Note that all the jihadis are talking about going to Baghdad to fight Uncle Sam instead of staging another attack on US soil. Why? For the same reason that the Confederate Army was drawn into stand-up fights with the Union Army in order to defend Southern cities after Sherman burned Atlanta. You draw your enemy out by attacking what he holds dear.
As to GWB's border policy, I have my disagreements with it, but Kerry would have made it even worse. Clinton brought forth the motor voter law. What would Kerry have wrought, in addition to amnesty?
#15
CF - as a pretty libertarian Republican, I never thought I'd support a nat'l ID card, but times, and I, have changed. National ID with biometric stds is it!
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 19:41 Comments ||
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#16
# 14 Zhang Fei you are correct. Camp Pendelton, C.A. President Bush appearing before cheering U.S. forces Tuesday, declared that terrorist wont be able to control Iraq's destiny because "Free people will never choose their own enslavment". The million dollar question is "will they ever be free?". I think Mr. Bush is promising ROSES- and who will receive the THORNS??
Posted by: Andrea ||
12/07/2004 19:44 Comments ||
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#17
wow Andrea! That was DEEP
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 19:47 Comments ||
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#18
# 15 Frank G. I agree with you on this- but it would only be another way to steal identity- along with cloning of people, sheep, cats we are on a slippery slope. I'm NOT sure that would work.
Posted by: Andrea ||
12/07/2004 19:48 Comments ||
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#19
I would not accept a "national ID". National standards for an Drivers License yes. A national ID no. I am a Citizen of the Republic of California, A state in the United States. A California ID or driver license is all I need. I don't fly, plan on flying. I don't need to identify my self to the federal government. I don't want shit form the feds and I don't need their ID or permission to do jack shit. I don't want some faceless assclown in Washington DC determining if I am a "citizen" with a right to exist/work. How many of you can prove you are a citizen besides your easily faked birth certificate?
#20
Thanks for the response. I have posted more under OPINION section that is note worthy.
I'm logging off now- more work to do at home
where my security is safe- except for a stolen car or two!
Posted by: Andrea ||
12/07/2004 19:51 Comments ||
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#21
Let's see... how many things can you accomplish at once? No, a step-wise approach isn't allowed. Satisfy all of MY concerns at once or you're shit.
Oh, sorry, GWB has had only 4 years to deal with open borders. How selfish of me to expect that he would include border control in a new intelligence reform bill that he has personally rammed through Congress inspite of outcry from his own House Republicans.
No,you are totally right, com. I should be a more "global minded" citizen and rejoice that Jorge Bush is keeping Iraqis, Germans, Phillipinos,and South Koreans safe. I'm a better person to think "them, them" than "me, me." Thank you for opening my eyes to your selfless worldly wisdom.
Read the article, Republicans: losing the border while winning the war, in today's Washington Dispatch before you suggest that border control is such a trivial selfish issue.
#24
Frank, I think that those days are close to over, except for illegals in California. I believe it is now Federal law that states must get I-9 quality ID before issuing a DL to an American.
Immigrants are a different story. I'd make them register once a year, just like when we were kids. Remember the PSAs every January directing aliens to go to the Post Office and complete their allien registration form? We should also be getting DNA, prints, retinas and all the other biometrics we are getting in Fallujah for foreigners, expecially Mexicans.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 19:59 Comments ||
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#25
LOL Ship! Really! Mrs. D - I have no problems with that - I want secure borders, with only legal immigrants and visitors. How we reach that is a discussion, but putting the military on the border (which would distress some) would be my first step. F*ck Mexican sensitivities! I live here in San Diego, and we deal with it every day.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 20:03 Comments ||
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#26
SPo'D - I seldom disagree with you, but I do here. If it takes a national ID to actually do what everyone says they want, including you: immigration laws enforced, the ability to identify individuals with certainty, the removal of political shenanigans from the process, flight safety (I'd already decided to undergo the biometrics qualification), etc - then this is where that road leads. You sound like you have a strong Libertarian bent... Did you serve in the US Military? If so, then all of the aspects of your privacy that you're objecting to are already on file, bro. If not, better pay those delinquent parking tickets, heh.
Magic won't do it. Integrated nation-wide databases, hard biometrics, and national standards will. It may or may not require a standard ID card, but it will require blanket standards. At that point, what does it matter what it says on your DL or whatever? The effect and benefits will be the same. And that fact will scare the shit out of some people, but then those that are worried are probably worried more about hiding from "the man" than they are for the security of their fellow citizens. Tough shit.
#27
Frank, If you're in SD, you've got the problem big time.Love the road signs with the fleeing family. I don't know whether that means I get bonus points or what. I'm not sure how much military we need. Based on the Israeli example, I'd say it's more like a quaretr mile of broken glass and a wall from sea to shining gulf.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 20:09 Comments ||
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#28
Glom - If you were interested in the issue, instead of making it sound as if George W Bush is personally responsible for what displeases you - and your issues are the only issues that matter, then I'd take you seriously. You're apparently not.
What he has accomplished in the last 3 years is, obviously, not a perfect match for your personal bitch list, not to mention beyond your ken. Sorry. I'm sure you are the only person on the planet who gets it - and Bush is clueless. Right.
Why don't you go back to your Dhimmidonk haunts and cry a river. Bush will continue to do what it is possible at each moment in time and you can complain about the other reality where you get everything you want precisely when you want it because you're the only person with the vision and intellect to run things. Y'know - that other reality where you're President.
#29
The problem for Dubya on this would be the DEAFENING roar from the MSM so loud, it would make abu Graib seem like the silence of outer space. Drown out all other sounds. Drown his message.
Mexicans have crossed that border unmolested for a century or more. It was, and is, in the interest of BOTH countries. Mexico rids itself of population that can't afford, and we get Mexicans WILLING to work. I know many people who do because they are here to work and earn money for their families. And they do work....hard.
The problem is the risk of Jihadis co-mingling with them and getting over the border. The Mexicans and coyotes would be very leery of allowing any Aarbs along due to the huge increase in risk. Worst case now, they get sent back. Have some Aarabs with them and the risk is immensely higher, like Apache's, JDAMs or talking to the FBI. Plus, they might figure Aarabs have some monetary value and take them themselves to turn them in for the reward.
I think it much easier, and more likely that illegal entries will come through Canada. After all, they have done it before.
#30
Brett - that's not the only issue - we have hospitals closing and huge deficits in state programs because of illegals using the emergency room as their primary physician (the courts say we have to treat and pay for em - *spit*) and their children are resonsible for huge school expenditures that are not recouped. They are a fiscal drain as well as a security risk and a stream of warm piss on our sovereignty
*rant over, for now*
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 20:21 Comments ||
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#31
"the courts say we have to treat and pay for em - *spit*"
#32
Let's see... how many things can you accomplish at once? No, a step-wise approach isn't allowed. Satisfy all of MY concerns at once or you're shit.
I agree with .com. It's ridiculous to think that Bush can wave a magic wand and not only end illegal immigration, but miraculously make the millions of illegals working here suddenly disappear. Do you think our economy wouldn't completely reel when the MILLIONS upon millions of jobs they fill and houses they occupy suddenly went empty? It's not a simple problem let's not pretend that it is.
The immigration issue IS key to homeland security - but it needs to be tackled at the congressional level. The president can and should push for it, but saying he should "fix it" is like saying he should "fix" health care. What do you think, that he can get his pen and write "free health care for all" and that will make it happen? No, it's huge and complex and needs to happen at the congressional level. Same with illegal immigration. It's too complex to just say that Bush should fix it and think that he can make it so.
#33
Oh, 2b - he could effectively end illegal immigration with a pronouncement the border is closed to illegals and stationing the mil (including state nat'l guard) on the border. 99% drop in 1 week
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 20:25 Comments ||
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#34
Nope the feds got nothing on me .com other than a copy of my finger prints that are about 21 years old if they can find them. Last time I checked about 6 years ago they couldn't. I want it to stay that way. A national standard for drivers licenses is the way to go. We don't need a national "passport." A national ID reeks of internal passports. Any data a federal employee needs on me can be kept on the back of my drivers license that can be matched against a database kept and controled in my home state. My wife who actually travels a heck of alot more than me has a real national ID it's called a US passport. If I wanted one I would get one.
Now if you want to go the Starship Troopers route I might go along with more federal intrusion. Our immigration issues with our border can be dealt with by militarizing our border with Mexico and legalizing all the Indios we have here now.
#35
2b - Thx... Though I'm sure Skeery could do it. He'd look right into the TV camera and say so and tell you it wouldn't cost a dime. And the result? We'd be taxed to death for his "plan" - which wouldn't accomplish shit after it was PC-ized.
Magik is the Dhimmidonk solution. It's the same as the Cry of the Three Year Old: IWWIWWIWI!*.
#36
Last I checked the military was pretty busy and "state of the art" national guard would only take how many years and how many trillions? A stepwise approach for such a big and long term problem would yield better (and less painful) results over the course of time. The economy in CA and Texas would collapse if they all just disappeared. Wishing and proclaiming doesn't make things so.
#38
2b - my last on this tonight - you underestimate the effect of teh force on the border and overestimate it's need - wide swaths are virtually unpassable, and we already use remote sensing to cut down on personnel needs. San Diego was a sieve. We built fences and channelled the traffic to the desert and east, effectively cutting illegal immigration by 80-90% in the SD sector (which formerly was the highest intrusion area)
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 20:36 Comments ||
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#39
2b - And when he does promise things, unlike 90% of politicians - and we can quibble about the number, he delivers.
BTW, this thread now deserves a BDS / PEST Warning! Label, heh.
#40
Frank, I've seen the border - the thousands waiting to cross nightly - and I agree that we need to fix it. We could fix it in a night if we just started shooting them dead. But we WON'T so it's a meaningless solution.
I'll leave it at I like Bush because he didn't promise what he knew he couldn't deliver. It needs to be done at the representation level.
#41
I've done a lot of studying on this issue, and know how complex it really is. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions, and the few difficult solutions are expensive. There is nothing that can't be done, however, with enough money and enough people working on it. There IS a solution. I worked out a plan that would provide a limited closure (40%) in two years, moderate closure (75%) in five years, and full closure in ten years. The cost? $42 BILLION, plus $1.6Billion a year to operate. That's just for the US/Mexico border. We'd have to do the same thing in the north to truly keep out the jihadis, at a cost of $60Billion, plus 1.8billion a year to operate. It would also take ~246,000 people to fully staff and operate all the pieces. I'm not sure the entire thing would be cost effective. Then I consider the cost of one 30KT nuke in Chicago or Omaha, and wonder why we're not doing it already.
#42
GC - Can you identify where you are (I understand a desire for anonymity) in this issue? Do you work at a Govt agency, on staff for a politician, State law enforcement, etc.?
And details would be pretty awesome - obviously this is a topic of great interest. It's so late in the day, however, I'd actually hope you'd post any details you feel comfortable making public on a similar thread tomorrow - so we have more time to bat it around. Are you game?
#44
Why don't you go back to your Dhimmidonk haunts and cry a river. Bush will continue to do what it is possible at each moment in time and you can complain about the other reality where you get everything you want precisely when you want it because you're the only person with the vision and intellect to run things.
The fact that the House Republicans rebelled the first time round that the intelligence reform bill surfaced, that is until the WH twisted their arms, would seem to indicate that there more people than selfish old me who see the dangers of open borders, including elected GOP. Furthermore, the majority of citizens according to various polls are concerned about illegal immigration. The public wants our borders sealed so why should GWB be afraid of what the MSM has to say about him enforcing immigration laws on the books.
According to stats and live links provided by numbersusa:
84% percent of Americans worry about illegal immigration. Of those, 37% worry a "great deal" about it. (Gallup Poll, March 8-11, 2004)
65% of Americans favor stopping ALL immigration during the war on terrorism (Fox News/Opinion Dynamics Poll, November 2001)
No issue upset the public more than President Bush' amnesty/guestworker proposals, with only 30%of Americans supporting him on that.
(CBS News/New York Times Poll, January 2004)
74% of resondents believe the U.S. should NOT make it easier for illegal aliens to become citizens of the U.S. (CNN/Gallup/USA Today Poll, January 2004)
52% of Americans oppose President Bush's guest worker-amnesty program for illegal aliens from Mexico; 57% oppose such a program for illegal aliens from other countries. Furthermore, at least 2X as many Americans strongly oppose the proposal as strongly support it
(ABC News Poll, January, 2004)
How can people say that's it's impossible to fix illegal immigration here but it's highly possible to democracize Muslim countries in the ME?
#45
Yep, just as I thought. Another Dhimmidonk loonie (aka operative) who had to go reload at DU in order to respond. Polls. Right.
The answer to your closing question, though you do not deserve an answer, is politics, as you so ably demonstrate. The reason this will be a long, hard, slugfest is because of partisan jackasses like you.
Name your solution. Go ahead, big mouth. Lay out the plan. How many troops and border agents? What technologies would you employ? What would the ROE be? Would you deport everyone caught? All countries equally? Would you naturalize everyone? How would you handle the economic effects? How about in-country security - would you implement a national ID system?
No, wait. Pfeh. Nevermind. No more DU Talking points. Just play with yourself.
#46
At the end of the day, what do we really have? A re-shuffled org chart? A czar? (Or do you prefer Tsar? If the so-called czar can't kick some apparatchik to the curb on his own authority, then he ain't a czar no matter how you spell it. But I digress.)
Who controls the spy sats? And the info they produce? If it needs to go plinking around a bureaucracy like a ball in a pachinko machine before it reaches the field, how's it going to be different than today?
#47
99.9% of all non hispanic dhimmicrats hate anything with word mexican/guest worker/amnesty attaced to it. Some day Hispanics will get a clue and stop getting kicked in the teeth. I don't think the Di or it's frothy frinds at the dailykoz ever will.
Posted by: Trolling for allen ||
12/07/2004 21:57 Comments ||
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#48
Another Dhimmidonk loonie (aka operative) who had to go reload at DU in order to respond. Polls. Right
You initially accused me of being selfish -remember you used the phrase "me, me, me"? I replied with supportive info, not spleenic sputtering, to show it was you that was out of step with the majority of Americans not me. And please take note, mr. brightlight com, numbersusa is not a liberal website.
As for solutions, I'd implement a biometric national id system for all American residents. Spending $ on more czars and bureucrats per the intelligence bill is throwing good money after bad if you don't secure the borders and get a handle on who is legally supposed to be here.
Those who are found to be illegal aliens should be deported asap. Then I'd enforce existing law that was put into place under the Reagan administration - fines against employers of illegal aliens. National security takes precedence over big business concerns about cheap labor. Does big business deduct from their profit margins the tab for health care, education, welfare, federal prison costs for illegals. Until they do, they have no room to whine. If the above measures don't quell the tide of illegals, then yes I would militarize the borders.
If you want to adopt illegal aliens and act as their sponsor feel free to do so on your own dime and at your own risk.
99.9% of all non hispanic dhimmicrats hate anything with word mexican/guest worker/amnesty attaced to it.
The most vocal champions of illegal aliens are left wing bleeding heart limousine white Democrats, so stuff your unfounded anti-whitey rant. Even legal Hispanic citizens are p.o.'d about our WH's lacklustre efforts to protect our borders.
47% of Latino voters in Arizona voted in favor of Proposition 200.
30% of Hispanics in California would like to shut down all immigration for awhile.(Zogby Poll, March 2002)
Hispanics are evenly divided about an amnesty for illegal aliens from Mexico, with half opposing it.
(Zogby Poll, September 2001)
43% of Hispanics believe the U.S. government doesn't do enough to stop illegal migrants from entering the country.
(International Communications Research Poll, May, 2000)
75% of California Latinos think illegal migration from Mexico to California is a problem.
(Public Policy Institute of California, January 1999)
" 'Cos our moose limb population ain't, y'know, pious enough!"
The Thai government is financing for the first time the pilgrimage of 350 citizens. They are part of 10,100 Thai pilgrims who will perform Haj this year, according to Thai Consul General Sukasem Yothasamutr. "The total number this time marks an increase of 3,100 over last year," he told Arab News during a reception he hosted to mark his country's National Day on Sunday. The first group of 420 Thai pilgrims will fly in on Dec. 13. Phuket Airline, Thai Airways and Royal Brunei Airline are transporting 95 percent of the pilgrims. The rest will come by other carriers.
Posted by: Seafarious ||
12/07/2004 12:18:53 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
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#1
Phuket? That's an airline I would definitely pick if I were a moose-limb. I recommend it wholeheartedly. Hope they would be Phuked (or is it Phuketed?) well.
#2
why don't they send them in origami planes--run by feelgood airlines--a division of appeasement r'us industries of bangacock
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
12/07/2004 2:07 Comments ||
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#3
This is just stupid. There are people in need of clean drinking water, medical care and facilities, decent housing, etc. -- and they're gonna fly a handful Mulims to the hajj? Though the final price tag isn't given, Toxin should pull the plug on this boon-doggle.
#6
BTW, Phuket Air is rather new - and so is its fleet. Compare to some domestic carriers in the US, heh. I've flown ON Phuket TO and FROM Phuket several times. I'd worry far more about United and American... If I'd known how you'd get off on the name, I'd have brought you back a t-shirt, heh.
Posted by: Sheik Abu Bin Ali Al-Yahood ||
12/07/2004 6:51 Comments ||
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#8
always makes me chuckle that the two most popular destinations for westerners is phuket and bangkok , but then again my humour can be fairly limited and self explanitory :P
Oh and pres tell how they are pronounced for the sake of me being stoopid .
#12
What a capital idea! Let's send a few hundred members of our already agitating Muslim population to visit the seat of radical Islamism for weeks of intensive training as jihadis. Then we'll bring 'em back home and gape in astonishment as even more unrest occurs.
EFL: Some 300,000 Baha'is live in Iran, where their religion was founded in the mid-19th century. Iran is also where Baha'is have long faced harassment and persecution for their beliefs. "Baha'is have no rights in the Islamic republic, even rights that other recognized [religious] minorities enjoy in Iran," said Abdolkarim Lahiji, vice president of the International Federation of Human Rights Leagues. "For example, a Baha'i teenage cannot enter Iran's universities; either he would have to lie and say that he is not a Baha'i, or else be deprived of the right to higher education. The Baha'i community of Iran had organized computer-based correspondence classes for youth, the authorities have repeatedly disrupted these [classes] and confiscated teaching materials and generally they have made life for the Baha'i minority difficult." Diane Alai is the United Nations representative of the Baha'i International Community. "For 20 years, Baha'is have been imprisoned, condemned to death," Alai said. "Their properties have been confiscated. People have been expelled from their jobs. Elderly people are not receiving their pensions. Baha'i properties have been confiscated. Baha'i holy places have been demolished, cemeteries desecrated."
The Baha'i faith was founded by Mirza Hussein Ali Nuri, known as "Bahaullah" -- Arabic for "the Glory of God." The unity of all religions, the unity of humanity, and the equality of men and women are among the main teachings of Bahaullah.
Men and women as equals? We can't have that now, can we?
Some Muslims consider Baha'is to be heretics. Many see theological conflicts with Islam as the main motive for the persecution of Baha'is. Muslims believe that the Prophet Muhammad is "the end of prophesy." The Baha'i faith, founded several centuries after Islam, states that divine revelation will continue.
"People are free to choose their way, and the Holy Koran has clearly stated: 'There is no compulsion in the religion,'" said Abbas Mohajerani, a professor of Islamic theology and philosophy in London. "The Baha'is or any other sect are free to take the direction they want, but when it comes to the principles of a religion and law you have to bear in mind that Islam explicitly says that Muhammad is the last prophet sent by God and whoever does not believe it is not a Muslim."
"And must be killed!"
Baha'is believe that God has revealed himself to humanity through a series of divine messengers. The messengers have included Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad. According to the Baha'i faith, Bahaullah is the latest of these messengers. The Baha'i faith has about 5 million followers in more than 200 countries and territories throughout the world.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/07/2004 11:17:56 AM ||
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I can't be sure if Victor Hugo was involved but don't be fooled by the Bahais. In many respects, Bahais are a kinder gentler version of islam but under the surface they have some pretty strong cult like tendencies.
The least known aspect of Bahai faith not often mentioned but an extremely important tenent of the faith is that all bahai energies are to be directed to establishing one world government and one world state religion and one official language. Property is to be equally distributed once this one world state is established.
Theres much more thats disturbing about these folks, but they tend to be harmless otherwise and most certainly shouldn't be treated as badly as they are in Iran.
#3
You're thinking of Hoa Hao, in Vietnam, an offshoot of the Cao Dai sect. Huynh Phu So, the founder of Hoa Hao, was locked up in a French nuthouse, and got out by converting the warden. Or that's what they told me...
Posted by: Fred ||
12/07/2004 14:03 Comments ||
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Hmmmmmm..... sounds like a reasonable faith.
No pagodas or statues should be built besides the existing ones. Instead, let us reserve our money to come to the assistance of the poor and the needy, a really beneficial act unlike building a large pagoda or casting tall statues.
Let us not require the services of sorcerers, magicians, astrologers, and fortune tellers. Let us not offer food as offerings to Buddha because Buddha would never accept such bribery.
Let us not use flags, banners or streamers. Let us not burn votive paper because this is a futile waste...
Let us not cry or conduct expensive funerals; instead let us pray quietly for the deliverance of the deceasedâs soul.
Let us not compel our children to marry the one they do not like. Let us not demand large financial gifts from the bridegroom or organize big wedding parties, because this will result in impoverishing ourselves.
After years of bitter internal divisions and a series of crackdowns from the Islamic republic, the Iranian democratic opposition in the last two weeks has organized a united front to push for a referendum on the powers of the supreme leader. In an interview with The New York Sun, a founder of the new front, which comprises the major student groups as well as leading lawyers and activists inside the country, said organizers this week began fanning out across the country to collect the names of fellow citizens for a petition supporting changes to the constitution to allow a referendum. "We think this is a good step that all the opposition groups are united in one direction, the direction of the referendum," Mohsen Sazegra said in a telephone interview from London. "As far as I know, this is a unique event. All groups from monarchists to republicans, from left to right are now behind us and they support the referendum movement."
Mr. Sazegra is a founder of what in Farsi is called Tahkimeh Vahdat, which is translated into "strongest unity." The organization includes many of the reformists who had tried to work within the system with President Khatemi, as well as supporters of the son of the deposed Shah, Reza Pahlevi. Perhaps most important though, the new unified front includes the Islamic student organizations active in the country's universities. These groups originally supported the 1979 Islamic revolution but in recent years have demanded more political freedoms for the Iranian people. Indeed, activists led by one such leader, Abdollah Momeni, shouted down Mr. Khatemi yesterday in one of their boldest acts of defiance before the international press in recent months. In the middle of a speech at Tehran University, the onetime reformist president was heckled with taunts of "Shame on you," and "Where are your promised freedoms?" according to a dispatch from the BBC and wire services. Mr. Khatemi, who was reported to be visibly flustered, responded by saying, "My period is going to be over soon but I do not owe anyone," the Reuters news agency quoted him as saying. "Those power-seeking fanatics who ignored the people's demands and resisted reforms...the ones who destroyed Iran's image in the world, they owe me."
The confrontation between a group of students and Mr. Khatemi could go a long way in dispelling the notion in the West that Iran's democratic opposition has been demoralized after hard-line clerics prohibited most reformers from running for the elected assembly and have recently intensified efforts to arrest anti-regime bloggers and shut down critical newspapers. For years, Iran's opposition movement was driven underground and was said to lack a unifying leadership. Often, Western reporters would not print the names of the anti-regime rebels because of a fear of repercussions from the state, which has jailed and in some cases tortured and killed leaders of demonstrations in the country. Furthermore, there was little agreement among the Iranian opposition on the regime's repression.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/07/2004 10:25:39 AM ||
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After some reflection, I figure this is a show front of people angling for position should the Black Hats be toppled. I see nothing useful in what Sazegra does or says. Talking to the NY Sun is both stupid and dangerous if one is involved in the real opposition. Sitting in London is not opposing and calling upon America or whomever to impose sanctions "not against the Iranian people, but against the officials of the regime" (a neat feat, indeed) is a F**kin Duh worthless waste of newsprint / pixels.
If there was anything substantive about this clown, he'd be talking to Porter Goss, not the NY Sun, and we would know nothing about it.
I suspect this is merely a self-serving bit of PR fluff for stature... his opposing days are over, and he's hoping for a slot after the Mullahs are gone. Just my take.
you may be right to some extent but remember that:
1. exile groups haven't got much they can do beside this kind of thing
2. even a pseudo united front against the Mullarky may lead to a real united front-- the lack of a real united front among the exiles was a big handicap in Iraq
3. the exile groups are already providing material support for the in-country opponents of the mullarky
4. even a pseudo united front can get the mullarky in the MSM better than no pseudo united front --- and bad press is something that the mullarky really, really, really, hates
#3
So if the election gets too close for a valid recount, or irregularities occur, then it automatically goes to the Kalashnikov Supreme Court, I guess....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/07/2004 22:51 Comments ||
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ROTF
Posted by: Matt ||
12/07/2004 22:52 Comments ||
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December 7, 2004: The U.S. Air Force has ordered 288 AFM-158 JASSM missiles. These 2,300 pound weapons cost $389,000 each and are basically 1,000 pound JDAMS (GPS guided bombs) with a motor added. JASSM has a range of 350 kilometers and is designed to go after enemy air defense systems, or targets deep in heavily defended (against air attack) enemy territory. The air force and navy plan to buy over 5,000 JASSM, but there has been some opposition in the military and in Congress. The missiles are ten times as expensive as a JADM bomb of the same weight. But the aviators make the argument that many aircraft and pilots would be lost if the air defenses of a nation like, perhaps Iran North Korea Syria Saudi Arabia Pakistan France China, were attacked without using JASSM.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/07/2004 3:06:45 PM ||
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Naw, this looks like a definite nod to the N. Koreans. Well you could also make the argument that Iran may be on the list for receiving some of these.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 16:12 Comments ||
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JASSMs also have a terminal seeker that the JDAM lacks. If you need 1 meter vs 10 meter accuracy... Yes radars can see bombs. The airplane guys hope that the SAM guys shoot expensive missiles at their cheap bombs.
Posted by: Peter V ||
12/07/2004 16:18 Comments ||
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Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 16:48 Comments ||
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much less than a jet and the pilot
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 17:00 Comments ||
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Agreed. Do you know the cost of the next gen cruise missiles? I recall the last gen was $1million. Are they getting cheaper or more expensive?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 17:02 Comments ||
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no idea, bet they didn't drop in price ....
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 17:05 Comments ||
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I expect they're like computers, the computer you want always costs $3,000, but it's way better than the last $3,000 computer you bought. In this case cruise missles always cost 1 MILLION DOLLARS! LOL. But digital maping is out, GPS is standard and loitering is around the corner. When they are not armed they also can crank out SETI@Home Workunits in less than 3 hours.
#14
$400K is cheap compared to a $3 million Patriot missile. Tomahawks are around $550K (production cost) and wonder once JASSM R&D is figured in if it isn't just as cheap to buy Tomahawks.
Posted by: ed ||
12/07/2004 17:28 Comments ||
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Ed,
These sound like they go faster and are less vulnerable to interception than Tomahawks.
#17
Okay, let's talk delivery systems, here. I gather a B-52 can drop 51-500 pounders. Can it drop 11 of these (2300 pounders), or would it be more practical to use a C-130 or other enormous platform? And practically speaking, at 350km max strike zone, I would think that you would have to be at tremendous altitude, which could be a problem for lower-altitude designed aircraft.
#18
I was actually thinking a high altitude drop, but stand corrected on radar signature...How much length would a motor add? The JDAM kits are negligible, just GPS nose gear/brains and workable fins at the rear
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 18:37 Comments ||
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S300 batteries are toast. Each launcher costs $25m. Even if you drop 10 JASSM's on each launcher, you're looking at 4m in cost vs $25m in destructive effect.
From Asia Times: For instance, last August Russia clinched a deal to export to Vietnam two S300 PMU1 air defense batteries (or 12 launchers) for a reported nearly $300 million. The S300 PMU is an advanced version of the SA-10C Grumble air defense missile.
A senior Fatah official said negotiations are under way to convince Marwan Barghouti to withdraw from the race for Palestinian Authority president. Hatem Abdel Kader, a member of Fatah's Higher Committee, was quoted on the Voice of Palestine Radio as saying Tuesday that Barghouti's final decision will be taken within the next two days.
"Is that your final answer?"
"Contacts are under way with Barghouti to convince him to pull out his candidacy to protect Palestinian unity," Abdel Kader said.
"We're gonna make him a offer he can't refuse."
Barghouti, Fatah chief in the West Bank, is competing in the race with Mahmoud Abbas, the chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization and Fatah's sole nominee. Barghouti, a popular figure, is serving a life sentence in Israel on conviction of involvement in terrorist attacks against Israeli targets.
Most likely that's the safest place for him.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/07/2004 10:02:59 AM ||
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I can't believe my brother won that election.
Kill the Canker he sez.
A classified cable sent by the Central Intelligence Agency's station chief in Baghdad has warned that the situation in Iraq is deteriorating and may not rebound any time soon, according to government officials. The cable, sent late last month as the officer ended a yearlong tour, presented a bleak assessment on matters of politics, economics and security, the officials said. They said its basic conclusions had been echoed in briefings presented by a senior C.I.A. official who recently visited Iraq.
The officials described the two assessments as having been "mixed," saying that they did describe Iraq as having made important progress, particularly in terms of its political process, and credited Iraqis with being resilient. But over all, the officials described the station chief's cable in particular as an unvarnished assessment of the difficulties ahead in Iraq. They said it warned that the security situation was likely to get worse, including more violence and sectarian clashes, unless there were marked improvements soon on the part of the Iraqi government, in terms of its ability to assert authority and to build the economy.
Together, the appraisals, which follow several other such warnings from officials in Washington and in the field, were much more pessimistic than the public picture being offered by the Bush administration before the elections scheduled for Iraq next month, the officials said. The cable was sent to C.I.A. headquarters after American forces completed what military commanders have described as a significant victory, with the retaking of Falluja, a principal base of the Iraqi insurgency, in mid-November.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/07/2004 2:07:17 AM ||
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Well that's it, then. Let's pack up, ship out, and cower under our beds like proper dhimmis.
#2
hmmmm - maybe we need a Grand Jury investigation (like the Wilson/Plame debacle) to find out who leaked this classified gloom and doom fable cable, huh? Somebody should find themselves in jail?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 10:03 Comments ||
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Do they need volunteers for this Grand Jury? I can think of several Rantburgers that should be on it.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 10:09 Comments ||
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How does something like this get leaked?
It must be highly classified.
#6
Of course this analysis is by the same CIA that concluded the Soviet Union was economically strong and that Saddam had all sorts of WMD. Guess the cable means - we're winning.
Posted by: Don ||
12/07/2004 10:29 Comments ||
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This is a perfect time to do a thorough investigation and then FULLY prosecute ANY & ALL associated with this leak. This is perfect for several reasons: (1) the material itself won't be compromised by further release of it (2) it WAS classified and is therefore VERY prosecutable and (3) the President doesn't have to give a damn worry about negative reactions by the Dems!
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 10:54 Comments ||
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The text of assessment/cable stated that things will get worse,unless they improve. That's the kind of brilliant analysis we have come to expect from the CIA.
Posted by: Stephen ||
12/07/2004 12:00 Comments ||
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Looney Left: Iraq is taking too long. Can't you like microwave it or something?
#11
How do I get on the distribution list for the CIA's top secret message traffic? Is it like an email list? If I signed up for it would I get a lot of spam?
Posted by: Matt ||
12/07/2004 12:28 Comments ||
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When "classified cables" are provided to the NYT by CIA station chiefs, it's clear that the CIA is a rogue agency that needs to be purged immediately as a first step toward shutting it down and starting over.
Again, you can't "reform" the CIA. The rot's too deep. It needs replacing, not reform.
#13
Lex is correct. I grew up during a time when the CIA and FBI deserved, or at least so I thought, great respect because they were the premier intelligence agencies on planet Earth. No more. Since 9/11 I learned some hard truths. I no longer have ANY confidence in the abilities of the CIA or FBI to protect my countrymen or family. Scrap 'em and start over.
Posted by: Mark Z. ||
12/07/2004 13:05 Comments ||
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William Peterson or Marg Helgenberger should take over the FBI Forensics Lab - the one part it seems is worth saving... -Jerry Bruckheimer
#15
I wonder if this is one of those traceable memos, the kind where they know who leaked by subtleties of wording or details of information? Could this be part of Goss's housecleaning effort? Or have I read too many novels ;-)
#16
With the bats in Langely, anything is posible. Goss might have leaked it to nail the station chief on whom he didn't really have the goods. I'm with Lex.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 13:40 Comments ||
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The fact that we haven't had a single attack in the US since 9/11 makes me respect them. I think they both just need a good house cleaning and better ability to hire and fire.
I don't think it's anything that good management and improved, enforceable standards can't fix. As for these self-righteous Sheurer types - nobody's irreplacable. Time to make that fact painfully clear.
#18
During my time in the Marines I occaisionally handled classified documents. I was careful as hell, and scared of the consequences (to me and others) if I mis-handled one.
NOW, of course, I know that I should have been leaking them to kick-start a book deal! What a dumbass Jarhead I was!!
#19
2b, it's not just a few bad apples. CIA case officers and station chiefs do not "leak" to the media-- it's simply not done. That these senior officials are using the NYT as a mouthpiece for supposedly classified analyses, and publishing tell-all books with their supervisors' permission, and slamming the White House in many other ways, is intolerable.
This is beyond tweaking org charts. It's now a national security issue. The only way to halt this treasonous behavior is to shut it down.
I agree with you, but I doubt that it will occur. I am a strong Bush supporter, but I am AGAINST the intelligence bill that tried to take satellite oversight away from the miltary. I am NOT CONVINCED that today's compromise is in America's best interests. (So, I believe that the President is wrong on that one).
I know of No bureaucrat outside of the military in D.C. that is really trustworthy. On the other hand, some of the armchair general military dinosaurs are the worst of all. So.... we will see.
#22
Another dimension to this memo: the CIA paramilitaries have been described as being ineffectual and there have been suggestions that all paramilitary operations come under DOD control. Those suggestions mesh with the renewed emphasis and skill at Special Ops in DOD, including the new chief of staff of the Army (a special ops guy).
If the Baghdad CIA guy runs 300 people, they're probably not analysts, you know? So is he pushing for more people of his own? Undercutting the rep of the DOD guys for excellent work? Or just avoiding any blame whatsoever for whatever goes wrong?
Posted by: too true ||
12/07/2004 18:13 Comments ||
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I saw the ham-fisted stupidity of the CIA operation in Saigon "close up and personal". It seems the CIA station chief in Baghdad is following the same scenario. We used to hate passing on information to the Saigon office, because we knew it would be all over Saigon before sundown. That place leaked like a seive, there were more bugs (electronic types) than people, and security was lax or non-existent. There was a turf war going on between CIA and the embassy, which didn't help things (same thing may be going on in Baghdad). I have little respect for the cloak-and-dagger boys at CIA. On the other hand, I know quite a few of the imagery people personally, and they rate every bit of respect I can give them. Some of their technical people are also first-rate.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/07/2004 21:19 Comments ||
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#24
The station chiefâs cable has been widely disseminated outside the C.I.A
the top American military commander in Iraq, Gen. George W. Casey Jr., also reviewed the cable and initially offered no objections
There are embedded reporters throughout Iraq.
So why are common sense observations creating such a flap as being a "leak" of secretive information? Actually the CIA cable seemed to be more critical of the Iraqis than anything else and it doesn't take a spook to figure out the main problem that threatens Iraq's future stability: unless there were marked improvements soon on the part of the Iraqi government, in terms of its ability to assert authority and to build the economy.
It's not like this was Geraldo drawing US military strategy in the sand on internationally televised television.
NBC reads Rantburg! Well, no, not really.
They are the faces under the masks and the suicide bombers behind the wheel. They are also foreign fighters in Iraq who are willing to give their lives to kill Americans. After their deaths, names and photos of the so-called "martyrs" are sometimes memorialized on militant Web sites. During the past two months, NBC News scoured the Internet, cross-referencing names, tracking down biographical information and, in some cases, making direct contact with family members. All told, NBC News found information on 31 individuals, including:
* One man from a wealthy family in Saudi Arabia
* The reigning Kung Fu champion of Jordan
* A former police officer from Kuwait
* An al-Qaida operative from Turkey
NBC News terror analyst Evan Kohlmann says their backgrounds are diverse some successful, others young and unemployed and in at least three cases, they came from France.
I know. I was surprised too.
"It's unusual, perhaps, but I think its part of a trend, of European-born Muslims, who are going to fight in jihads around the world," says Kohlmann. Though the terrorists came from at least eight countries, all shared one overriding belief that America is waging war on Muslims.
One well-known cleric from Jordan, Omar Yousef Jumah, was killed in September and eulogized in a video posted on the Internet only days ago.
FYI, this guy is the al-Shami dude who inspired the consulate bombing in Jeddah yesterday. From this article, we learn that Jumah alias Sheik Abu Anas al-Shami was Zarqawi's "spiritual adviser." I also note that there seems to be some debate as to whether he was born in Jordan or Palestine. I'd guess Jordan since he was so close to Zarq, and Palestinians generally don't go high up the al-Q org chart. Plus, he wasn't even a suicide bomber; he was killed by an American bomb.
In an exclusive interview with NBC News, the cleric's parents say they didn't know he'd even gone to Iraq until they learned of his death. "Omar sacrificed his kids, his wife, his youth to be a martyr," says his mother. "I'm very proud of him." Jumah and his family celebrated the 9/11 attacks. Omar Yousef Jumah's father says they were all "very happy to see victory for the Muslims."
"America has attacked us in our homes, so it is good that America is attacked in its core," echoes Jumah's mother. His parents say Omar was secretive and spent his time teaching Islam. They say he told them he was going to Saudi Arabia last year. In fact, he went to Iraq, where he attracted the attention of Iraq's most-wanted terrorist, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who called Jumah, "my soulmate in joy" and said of him, "as my shadow never left me he was a true friend." The Zarqawi video also suggests Omar played a role in the beheading of American Nick Berg. Omar's parents say they didn't know he was involved with Zarqawi, just that he died fighting Americans. "We support what Omar did in Iraq because it is a duty," says Jumah's father.
Families of most of the terrorists expressed pride and support. But one Saudi father is furious. He blames radical Saudi clerics for his son's death, complaining the clerics manipulate young Saudis, telling them it is their duty to go to Iraq and fight the infidels. In fact, almost half of the so-called "martyrs" NBC News identified came from Saudi Arabia, as part of a seemingly endless stream of young men educated, and not willing to die for the mere chance to kill Americans.
Sooner or later, we'll have to remove this cancer at it's source. Sooner, please.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/07/2004 1:57:50 AM ||
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Though the terrorists came from at least eight countries, all shared one overriding belief â that America is waging war on Muslims.
Heh, if the U.S. were to be waging war on Muslims, it wouldn't be in doubt.
In fact, almost half of the so-called "martyrs" NBC News identified came from Saudi Arabia, as part of a seemingly endless stream of young men â educated, and not â willing to die for the mere chance to kill Americans.
Not a problem. If these weak-minded fools want to die, oblige them.
#3
"Omar sacrificed his kids, his wife, his youth to be a martyr," says his mother. "Iâm very proud of him." Jumah and his family celebrated the 9/11 attacks. Omar Yousef Jumahâs father says they were all "very happy to see victory for the Muslims." "America has attacked us in our homes, so it is good that America is attacked in its core," echoes Jumahâs mother.
This is pure unvarnished tribalism at its ugliest. It's this kind of mindset that we must defeat if we are ever to be safe again, anywhere. There are two ways to defeat it: we can change hearts and minds, or we can eliminate those that think this way. We're trying the first approach now. If it doesn't work...
They say he told them he was going to Saudi Arabia last year.
I'm beginning to believe that Syria and Iran can wait. Our next target in the Middle east should be the magick kingdoom and it's death-cult. Nukes would be messy, but quick.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
12/07/2004 21:28 Comments ||
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Army Gen. John P. Abizaid, the commander of U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf region, raised the possibility Monday that U.S. forces in Iraq could start to be reshaped as early as next year to reduce the number of combat troops and concentrate on the development of Iraqi security forces.
Abizaid declined in an interview to set a timetable for the shift, saying it would depend on the outcome of national elections in January and evidence that Iraqi forces could assume a greater share of combat operations against the country's entrenched insurgency. Other senior U.S. officers who elaborated on the plan said the change would not necessarily lead initially to an overall decrease in the number of U.S. troops in Iraq but could eventually facilitate a lower troop level.
This outlook comes in the face of a series of brazen attacks by insurgents intent on disrupting the elections and terrorizing Iraq's fledgling security services. The violence, together with a campaign of intimidation aimed at those associated with the new governing structures or with the Americans, has deepened perceptions of insecurity, particularly in areas heavily populated by Sunni Arabs. It also contributed to a Pentagon decision last week to boost the U.S. force to 150,000 troops.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
12/07/2004 1:52:41 AM ||
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Operations continue at a blistering pace as the Abazaid PR offensive enters a second week. Which enemy didn't he threaten here?.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/07/2004 11:07 Comments ||
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#2
and he can do it in Arabic too
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/07/2004 11:23 Comments ||
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#3
And it is yielding insights into how the insurgents sought to use Arab news media to their advantage.
What insight is that? Al Jazeera is the perfect example, and it's right out in the open.
HAMID Karzai was sworn in as Afghanistan's first democratically elected president today, promising to restore security to the war-shattered country three years after the fall of the Taliban. Mr Karzai took an oath on the Koran as he was inaugurated in front of foreign dignitaries including US Vice President Dick Cheney and Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. The ceremony at the heavily fortified presidential palace in Kabul took place under watertight security amid threats by the ousted hardline Islamic Taliban regime to disrupt it.
Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld both warned that "extremists" still wanted to take back Afghanistan, and the Taliban yesterday night launched a deadly attack on a checkpoint in southern Khost province. The audience erupted in applause after Mr Karzai took the oath and kissed the Koran. He himself then swore in vice presidents Ahmed Zia Masood and Ustad Mohammed Karim Khalili, standing between them on the podium. He promised in his oath to exert his efforts "towards the prosperity and progress of the people of Afghanistan". Addressing the audience, he also pledged to tackle the problems facing Afghanistan after 25 years of war, including the swelling drug trade, powerful warlords and Taliban remnants.
Afghan, NATO and US forces drew a tight security cordon around the capital before the inauguration and many streets in downtown Kabul were closed. Mr Cheney hailed it as a "great and historic moment for the people of Afghanistan" and praised the US role in bringing democracy to the country. Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld, who arrived separately, were to leave the country immediately after the inauguration and an official lunch with Mr Karzai. "The military mission is not over," Mr Rumsfeld told US special forces at the Bagram airfield just outside Kabul. "It is not over, there are still groups, extremists, that would like to take this country back.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/07/2004 5:22:50 AM ||
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This is just a sophisticated, nuanced call for appeasement.
India on Monday urged Nepal to invite insurgent Maoists for peace talks ahead of a visit by head of state King Gyandendra expected later this month and suggested "aggressive" border patrols to cut rebel supply lines. "They have a programme which, I have to admit, has some very progressive elements and I do not think there should be any difficulty in the establishment accepting them," Indian Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran said of the Maoists in New Delhi.
"Cutting off heads is a little extreme, yes, but many other parts of their program are very, ah, progressive!"
"And they have to be convinced that they cannot win an armed struggle and that their bargaining power would diminish if they continued with their agitation for long," Saran told a seminar on Nepal, which adjoins India. Saran said Kathmandu will have to offer assurances in a bid to appease a bunch of Maoists win the confidence of the rebels.
Or, you could just kill them.
"Certain assurances such as a level-playing field have to be given to them and some parts of their programme accepted to convince the Maoists to come to the political mainstream and participate in elections," he said. Nepalese political parties and the monarchy, between whom there was a "lack of trust and confidence" seemed to be thinking that by striking deals with the Maoists, they could marginalise the other side, he said. "The Maoists have been playing off one institution against the other to advance their own interests," Saran said. "The Maoists are seeing a fractured polity in Nepal. The political parties, in their rivalry, do not seem to understand that the need now is to rise above their differences to ensure that the multi-party system survives," he said.
And by giving the Maoists power, you'll guarantee the survival of a multi-party system, right?
The foreign secretary called for "aggressive and proactive" border patrolling by Nepalese security forces and said India will have to match the exercise on its side of the frontier "so that pressure is mounted on Maoists to return to peace talks." "The Maoist insurgency in Nepal poses a challenge to both countries as it is not limited to geographic boundaries but has linkages to similar movements in (Indian states of) Bihar and Andhra Pradesh," Saran said. Saran also said India believed the monarchy had a constructive role to play in Nepal, which is sandwiched between India and China. "But it is necessary that the monarchy look upon its interests as convergent with the interests of the political parties," he added.
Less talk, fix the problems in the country, and rub out the Maoists.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/07/2004 1:19:39 AM ||
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On Tuesday Napal invited India to negotiate with Kashmir separatist.
Posted by: Don ||
12/07/2004 10:49 Comments ||
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If the Nepalese don't kill the Mao terrorists, there goes the tourist business.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/07/2004 11:44 Comments ||
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From some stories I've read, the Mao terrorists have become a tourist attraction. They'll stop a tourist party, accept a "donation", pose for pictures with them, maybe steal some gear or food, and let them go their way. Seems like they know a cash cow when they see one.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/07/2004 12:09 Comments ||
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"I was accosted by an armed band of Maoists, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt stolen off my back!"
Indian and Pakistani officials were due to hold talks on Tuesday on opening a bus route between the divided zones of Kashmir after the prime ministers of the nuclear rivals pledged to carry forward peace talks. "If the two countries succeed in opening the bus service, the buses will be exploding on a regular basis peace process will move ahead at a good pace," said leading Kashmiri journalist Tahir Mohiudin.
I don't think I'd want to be on the first bus. Or the second.
"If the talks fail, the chances of the process moving forward would recede drastically," warned Mohiudin, who this week returned from a tour of Pakistan and the zone of Kashmir under its control. The bus service between Srinagar and Muzaffarabad has been a long-pending demand of families divided on both sides of the volatile de facto border also called the Line of Control (LoC). The bus service was stopped soon after a short war between India and Pakistan in 1947. But since January this year, when a peace process ended over two years of tension, the countries have been discussing the possibility of restarting the service if travel document issues can be resolved. Pakistan is opposed to residents in its area of Kashmir travelling on passports and visas, according to Mohiudin. They fear it would amount to accepting the LoC as the permanent border.
Though creating all those passports would stimulate the local counterfeiting industry.
Perhaps they could agree that everyone should travel using false documents, or documents vetted by Dan Rather. Problem solved!
Though Kashmir is split between the two rivals, both claim it in full. Any recognition the LoC as the international border would be tantamount to both sides accepting the final division of Kashmir. Islamabad wants some other arrangement like local police or civil administration on both sides issuing travel permits. Kashmiri separatists opposed to Indian rule are also not in favour of passports for travellers. Hardline leader Syed Ali Geelani, based in Indian-controlled Kashmir, is emphatically opposed to the service. "It will be detrimental to sanity and common sense our freedom struggle," said Geelani. The bus service is aimed at bringing together families that have been cut off from each other for decades during which they have relied solely on letter writing. The other option is spending days in New Delhi to get a visa and then travel to Wagah -- the only land crossing between India and Pakistan -- and then to Pakistani city of Lahore, from where they travel to the Pakistani zone of Kashmir.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/07/2004 1:14:29 AM ||
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the bus route commonly know as 'turkey shoot' will become operational minus IED around 2012 .
I visited Kashmir once b4 it became a shit hole , and I must say its one of the most beautiful places in the world . They make nice wooly jumpers to wear too :)
ABOUT 600 leaders from central Iraq's Shiite Muslim provinces announced plans to begin setting up their own autonomous region, following a meeting today in the holy city of Najaf. Representatives agreed to set up a security committee for their five provinces and a regional council to stimulate the economy of their neglected region. Iraq's provisional constitution recognises the federal nature of Iraq, most of whose Kurdish population lives in three northern provinces with a large degree of autonomy.
Participants of the Najaf meeting underlined the importance of holding elections on January 30, and backed Shiite leaders' rejection of largely Sunni calls to delay the vote. Shiites make up about 60 per cent of the Iraqi population but were oppressed under the former regime of Saddam Hussein, which favoured the minority Sunnis. The meeting opened with an appeal from the governor of Najaf province, Adnan al-Zorfi, for a regional gathering of presidents of provincial capitals with an executive council made up of governors and provincial administration leaders. He also called for a consultative council with greater powers than the existing provincial councils that would draw up unified political, economic and security policies. "We must turn ourselves into a regional unit in the context of a federal Iraq," said Ukail al-Khozai, deputy governor of Karbala, another Shiite holy city.
The congress involves the provinces of Babel, Qadissiyah and Muthanna as well as Najaf and Karbala. The idea of forming a Shiite autonomous region has been floated for months, but this was the first time that the region's leaders met to draw up concrete measures.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/07/2004 5:19:08 PM ||
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A good idea. A step towards potentially independent Kurdistan, too.
#4
Not just our variety, either: look at how Britain has vastly increased autonomy for Scotland, and has come up with intelligent proposals for solving the Northern Ireland mess. Kurds as Scots, Sunnis as Irish: it can work in Iraq.
OTOH Baghdad is the country's nerve center and can't be spun off to one faction. And the shi'a and kurds will ahve to have some meaningful sunni participation in the security forces if the crackdown that's needed is to avoid looking like a civil war.
#10
Coming from the Shi'a, not the Kurds, this has legs and "legitimacy" - so it will serve the non-idiotarian segments of the Iraqi population.
The South and the North become federal zones, republics, whatever word one wants to use - Baghdad becomes an administrative zone, I guess - and the Sunnis, well, let's see... no oil, no power, no relevance. Yep, this is the sweetest Shi'a revenge possible which does not lead to the wholesale dissolution of Iraq as an entity...
In a sense, effectively, it's a peaceful (for now) Shi'a declared civil war...
The Kurds must emulate this, as closely as possible to prevent the inevitable Ba'athist UN thug Brahimi's attempts to derail / obfuscate the process. Truly, a fascinating development.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Australian Federal Police (AFP) Commissioner 
