Today's Darwin Award contestant...
A vodka-drinking competition in a southern Russian town ended in tragedy with the winner dead and several runners-up in intensive care. "The competition lasted 30, perhaps 40 minutes and the winner downed three half-litre bottles. He was taken home by taxi but died within 20 minutes," said Roman Popov, a prosecutor pursuing the case in the town of Volgodonsk.
"The winner wasn't aware of the death when it occurred."
"Five contestants ended up in intensive care. Those not in hospital turned up the next day, ostensibly for another drink." Mr Popov said the director of the shop organising this month's contest had been charged with manslaughter. He had offered 10 litres of vodka to the competitor drinking the most in the shortest time.
"Tastes great!"
"Less killing!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/19/2003 14:39 ||
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A true Phyrric victory.
Not a Darwin Award candidate because there's nothing particularly innovative about the method. I've been doing the same thing for a half-century - only the timeframe is different, the results are the same.
(AP) - Eight competing designs for a World Trade Center memorial were unveiled Wednesday, with finalists remembering the dead with quiet gardens, reflecting pools, inscribed names and lights for lost lives. All eight designs, selected from a pool of 5,200, list the names of those who died in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, as well as the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. The names are inscribed on granite walls, glass panels and stone columns, some alphabetically and others according to where the person died.
Limited edition 17-inch high cloth and vinyl figure of George Bush with his Pants on Fire. "Liar! Liar!" Get it? How funny. Not.
Just $11.95 each plus shipping.
Order by November 28 for delivery before Christmas.
Made in China in a factory that has been
certified by Disney⢠for labor standards. Order now, while supplies last! Perfect for the idiotarian in your life! Coming soon: the Tony Blair Poodle doll.
Police armed with a search warrant remained at Michael Jacksonâs Neverland Ranch in central California into last night (Nov. 18), and a broadcast report early this morning said officers also carried an arrest warrant for the pop superstar. "The Jacksonsâ family attorney has confirmed that the Santa Barbara County Sheriff has issued an arrest warrant for Michael Jackson," NBC Television reported. Police said without elaboration that they served "a search warrant as part of an ongoing criminal investigation." Cable channel Court TV, which broke the story, quoted sources saying there had been a new allegation of sexual abuse brought by a 12-year-old boy against the King of Pop. Sheriffâs deputies and officials from the Santa Barbara District Attorneyâs office activated the search warrant yesterday morning and stayed at the ranch into the night. Jackson has theme-park rides and a zoo there, which he occasionally opens to local children. Thatâs not all he opens.
This is not WoT. I'm not even interested. I don't pay attention to such things. But Fox News does...
The 12-year-old boy at the center of the Michael Jackson child molestation scandal may have confessed to his psychiatrist that the pop singer plied him with wine and sleeping pills when he allegedly molested him, according to sources. The boy has also hired Los Angeles attorney Larry Feldman, the same lawyer who represented the family of a 13-year-old boy who made similar allegations a decade ago, the sources said. Also, according to my source, Jackson â knowing some months ago that the boy and his family had serious complaints about his relationship with them â tried to get rid of them. âHe bought them passports and planned to ship them off to somewhere in South America,â a friend of the boyâs family (a mother and siblings) told me. In fact, says this source, Jackson kept the family at Neverland for a period of time, hoping to convince them to drop their allegations by lavishing them with entertainment and further merriment.
Peshawar.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 11:02:50 AM ||
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#1
The doggone boy, er, I mean, GIRL is mine......
#3
Fascinating interview on Fox last night, primarily for what was not said. A reporter, who knew the accusers identity, said the whole thing started when the accuser was in therapy and said something that got the Doctor talking to the Police.
Anyway, the reporter refused to provide any details for fear that would let everyone know who the accuser was. It had me thinking of Mulcaly Culkin and Cory whatever his name is who both hung around with Michael a decade ago.
I know some reports say the accuser is 12, but how many 12 year olds are in therapy? Could be more than I know, or it could be the crimes occured when the accuser was 12.
I do not look forwad to Michael Jackson on the nightly news every night for a year. Scott Peterson is bad enough.
#4
call me cynical, but I half suspect that Jackson's PR people placed the call to get the FBI to conduct the raid. As all celebrities know, there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Take for example, Sean Penn, who mouthed off some really bad stuff...just as his new movie Mystic came out. Brittany Spears' choreographed refusal to appear on NBC because they exposed her new sleazy side; as if that whole drama wasn't set up well in advance. There are endless examples of celebrities getting arrested, or saying or doing really outrageous stuff..timed to their newest release.
It's worth billions of dollars in free publicity, at taxpayer expense. The networks love it, and the stars love it too. If the FBI comes up empty handed, they should be wondering if they were set up.
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 11:28 Comments ||
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#5
B - you have wayyyyy too much time on your hands. From the current reports this is a new/current allegation (why someone not criminally negligent would allow their child to go to Jackson's ranch is beyond me!), but the D.A. has been waiting for something new since MJ last bought his way out of jail with a $12 million payoff to shut up the accuser. He's almost bankrupt, but doesn't need this kind of publicity. It's jail time this time IMHO
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 11:46 Comments ||
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#6
We'll know there's something to the charges if jacko hops on the private jet and hauls ass for France. They're very welcoming to entertainment pedophiles over there, and extradition is almost impossible (i.e., ira einhorn).
#7
B - you have wayyyyy too much time on your hands
maybe. But that doesn't change the fact that celebrities understand the benefit of a good bad publicity event and they do it all the time. You just never noticed it before...well...now you will.
Mark my words, when you see the 24/7 bad-boy celebrity buzz, it's more than likely they will have a new release out, or the networks are promo-ing a new show or big game. Ahhhh...now that I've called your attention to it, you'll see I'm right. Bad publicity is an oxymoron.
Ok...I admit, I'm being reeeally cynical on this one, but if the FBI comes fails to make an arrest, I'm going to say, "I told you so".
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 12:36 Comments ||
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#8
I know some reports say the accuser is 12, but how many 12 year olds are in therapy?
Murat?
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
11/19/2003 12:39 Comments ||
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#9
and....to further my point.... According to Drudge, "NEW JACKO CD HITS #1 IN UK..."
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 12:40 Comments ||
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#10
Michael Jackson has been warning us all along with his album titles -- "Bad," "Off the Wall," and "Dangerous" come to mind. However, his most overt admission was his recent cover of the Elton John classic "Don't Let Your Son Go Down On Me."
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/19/2003 12:52 Comments ||
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#11
Being the father of a son who's a 12-year-old mentally and 28 physically and chronologically, I can relate to the problem. As a former foster parent who worked for a group that specialized in helping children with attachment disorder, I'd say there are a LOT of 12-year-olds and younger in therapy. Quite a lot of them are there because of sexual abuse - both homosexual and heterosexual. It's one of THIS country's dirty little secrets.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 13:09 Comments ||
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#12
B, there is such a thing as bad publicity. Google, Fatty Arbuckle, Paula Poundstone, and O.J. Simpson and see what happened to their careers after a run-in with the law. No sane person would connect themselves with child molestation intentionally. Hell, examine the Prince of Pops album sales after the last allegations hit the press.
#13
Authorities said Wednesday an arrest warrant had been issued for Michael Jackson in a child molestation case. "There is an arrest warrant for Michael Jackson," said senior Deputy Tim Gracey of the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department. Gracey said Jackson was in Las Vegas and authorities were negotiating with Jackson's lawyer for his surrender.
He has to post a three million dollar bond and surrender his passport. The DA is saying there are multiple counts.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 14:11 Comments ||
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#14
Just an obvervation, but press conferences like this always reinforce with me the fact that reporters are incredibly stupid and lazy. How many times can they ask the same question and be told there won't be an answer? And then some idiot asks a question that has ALREADY been answered, even I knew that and I'm surfing, listening to music, in other words barely paying attention to this circus.
#15
ok...so maybe I went a leeetle overboard on this one. But did it hurt Glenn Reynolds when his puppy blending was exposed? I think not.
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 14:36 Comments ||
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#16
how many 12 year olds are in therapy?
In Southern California? A shitload, I'm sure.
Authorities said Wednesday an arrest warrant had been issued for Michael Jackson in a child molestation case.
Fine; he probably deserves it. Do they also have an arrest warrant for the boy's parents for terminal stupidity for letting the boy anywhere near Jackson, a known perv?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/19/2003 17:15 Comments ||
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#17
Jacko to flee, never to be seen again? Gosh, it's just too much to hope for.
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 17:23 Comments ||
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#19
A Mother Ship with a bumper sticker reading, " I love your children! "
Posted by: Charles ||
11/19/2003 18:41 Comments ||
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#20
Doubt he'll be rescued by a MOTHER ship, but if NAMBLA can find a way, they may do the deed. Otherwise, Jacko may become the "lovee", rather than the "lover".
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 20:57 Comments ||
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#21
He already hired Garagos, the ACLU was probably fighting to represent him as well.
#22
OP is right. My wife deals with kids who are abused in every way possible 5 days per week at her work. Any school professional (she is a school psych) who sees evidence of abuse is required by law and professional ethics has to report this to the Division of Family and Youth Services pronto. I imagine that this is what happened with the Jacko-ee. The authorities probably got the names of other Baitland Neverland youthful visitors and the case just snowballed. Jacko is in very deep dog dew. Very deep.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/19/2003 22:53 Comments ||
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Fred, please delete this if Iâm making a fool of myself, cause my memory is vague on this. But when I read this quote, it reminded me of something that I read on rantburg. Anyone recognize this quote in the Washington Post, by Walter Pincus, as their own...or did I just read this same quote in the WP?
"This doesnât prevent Pincus from letting his sources rip the memo. One anonymous "former senior intelligence officer" quoted by Pincus sniffs that the memo is not an intelligence product but âdata points ... among the millions of holdings of the intelligence agencies, many of which are simply not thought likely to be true.â"
It's probably not a Rantburger being quoted. I've made a few remarks on the distinction between raw data and finished intelligence. The quality of raw intel can vary widely, from solid to amorphous, usually depending on the source, but also depending on a lot of other factors, like its physical quality. Anyone in the analysis and reporting chain knows this, from the collectors to the head cheeses. It sounds like the guy doesn't like the conclusions reached, so he's pooh-poohing the data and ignoring the cross-checking process or pretending it didn't occur. A lot of finished product comes from taking fragmentary or suspect data and cross-checking it to see if it has any value or validity. Once it's been included into those "millions of data points" it's available for later product to be cross-checked against.
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 9:01:05 AM ||
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That same quote is in yesterday's posting on "The Memo". It appears that you did read it on Rantburg, but it's not a Rantburger being quoted.
Posted by: Dar ||
11/19/2003 9:19 Comments ||
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#2
well, it's an interesting idea, isn't it? It's just a matter of time before Fred and some of the rest of you start to be quoted.
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 11:09 Comments ||
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#4
Wudn't me.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/19/2003 11:15 Comments ||
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#5
Fred's too busy destablizing the Middle East, or was it Pakistan? I missed the last cabal meeting.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 12:19 Comments ||
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#6
I got a telephone call AND an email from Doug Pasternak, who claimed he was a news producer for NBC in Washington, DC, a few days ago. His call (and the follow-up email) was basically to try to get me to discredit some of the imagery used in Colin Powell's presentation to the United Nations. Unfortunately for him, the piece he tried to use was totally worthless for what he was trying to do, and I think my answers rather floored him.
I've done some imagery analysis for various people after my retirement, including Farah at WND. He may have gotten my name and telephone number from there, or it may have been from something I said on Rantburg. I don't try to hide, even if there is a price to pay in spam and other unsolicited emails (SPAM is NOT the worst thing you can get in your email box). There are a lot of Rantburg readers who never make a comment online, including several in Washington, DC, politics.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 12:23 Comments ||
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Bomb - my 26-year military career was spent looking at photography - can you actually believe the government spends good money to let people do that? It was great!
Better "imagery" than the other way we used to refer to ourselves when asked to do the impossible (some general officers and government 'officials' never understand that you can't see THROUGH large metal and concrete objects to see what's inside, or what's underneath). In those circumstances, we referred to ourselves (but refused to accept from outsiders) as "imaginary" interpreters - giving the idiotarians what they wanted, knowing it had no basis in reality.
BTW, I retired in 1991, long before Bush II was even considering running for president.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 13:14 Comments ||
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#9
"im'age ry, n. 1. images in general...."
From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, 1941 edition (6 years before GWB was born)
#11
Old Patriot, thanks for your comments. When I post to this site, I like to think that decision-makers get useful information from here and thus I try to keep it relevant. Thanks again Fred and hello to all my fellow posters/commentors/senior Administration officials spending time at Rantburg!
Taliban killed three soldiers in an attack on an Afghan army post in southern Afghanistan, triggering fierce clashes between the rivals, a report said Wednesday. The rebels targetted the post on Sangeen highway some 40 kilometers (25 miles) north of Helmand province capital of Lashkar Gah early Wednesday, Pakistan-based private information service Afghan Islamic Press (AIP) reported. Around three hundred Afghan soldiers chased the rebels and in ensuing clashes killed one Taliban and detained another, AIP quoted Helmand security chief Dad Mohammad Khan. "We have launched retaliatory attack after Talibanâs assault and have pushed them back," AIP quoted Khan as saying. The two sides were still engaged in fierce fighting in Chah Baber mountains, in Maywand district in the neighbouring Kandahar province, late Wednesday, Khan said. The security chief estimated that around 40 Taliban rebels were involved in the fighting.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/19/2003 10:59:14 AM ||
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Apparently they pushed the Afghans over the edge.
Posted by: Charles ||
11/19/2003 11:05 Comments ||
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Saudi Arabia continues to fund and export its Wahhabi brand of Islam, making it a "strategic threat" to the United States in the worldwide war on terror, the chairman of the U.S. government commission on religious freedom said yesterday. "It is an ideology that is incompatible with the war on terrorism," said Michael Young, chairman of the State Departmentâs Commission on International Religious Freedom. The commission, established by Congress during the Clinton administration as a State Department body charged with monitoring religious rights, held a hearing yesterday titled: "Is Saudi Arabia a Strategic Threat: The Global Propagation of Intolerance." The correct answer is "Yes".
Wahhabism is a puritanical form of Islam that teaches intolerance of anyone who does not conform to its worldview â Muslims and non-Muslims alike. It is taught in Saudi schools and preached in tens of thousands of government-supported mosques. Several panelists said considering this type of education, it was no accident that 15 of the 19 September 11 hijackers were Saudis. 15 of 19, keep repeating that over and over.
In addition, Saudi Arabiaâs oil wealth â in the form of government grants, individual donations by members of the royal family and charity boxes at mosques â has been responsible for exporting and funding this ideology to Islamic schools and mosques in Pakistan, Indonesia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Bosnia-Herzegovina and East Africa, members of the panel said. Donât forget the mosques in the US.
"The Saudi royal family has shown it has no inclination for real reform," said Mai Yamani, a Saudi academic who has been threatened with arrest if she returns to her country. "Not only has the state embraced the hard-liners, the hard-liners are the state, deeply embedded in the structure. The state gives [fundamentalist clerics] power and money in return for religious legitimacy," she told the hearing. Since September 11 and especially after a series of recent suicide attacks in the desert kingdom, the Saudi rulers have sought to prove that they are on the same side as the United States in the war on terrorism. For example, Saudi officials used prime-time TV this week in their campaign against extremism by interrupting a popular comedy show to air footage of a jailed Muslim cleric renouncing his calls for Islamic militants to attack the West. So he is still in jail.
Appearing on Saudi state television, cleric Ali al-Khudair said of his previous "fatwas," or religious edicts, calling for attacks on the West, "If I had the choice, I would not have said them. I hope that, God willing, I have time to correct them." And we hope your time will be cut short, by a sword.
In late May, al-Khudair and two other clerics, Nasser al-Fahd and Ahmad al-Khalidi, were arrested in an antiterror sweep. In Mondayâs broadcast, al-Khudair, condemned the Nov. 8 suicide bombing of a residential compound housing foreign workers â which killed 17 persons, most of them Arabs â in Riyadh as "the work of criminals." Members of the panel said yesterday they were pessimistic about Saudi efforts to combat extremism. "Weâve struck a Faustian bargain, turning a blind eye to Saudi Arabiaâs domestic policies ... and weâve turned a blind eye to Saudi Arabian efforts to export Wahhabism," said Martin Indyk, former U.S. ambassador to Israel. Time for the blindfold to come off.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 11:21:58 AM ||
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In other news, water is wet and fire can cause a serious burn.
At the http://www.faithfreedom.org/ site, Muhammad (the prophet not the sniper) is being put on trial for such crimes as contract murder, child abuse, spousal abuse, incitement to murder, etc. The site is organized by ex-Muslims who want to rid the world of Islam (they contend that you canât be a good person and a good Muslim because of the violence incitement, hatred incitement, etc. in the Koran.
Posted by: mhw ||
11/19/2003 8:15:50 AM ||
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#1
ive met muslims who seem to be good persons. Im not going to assume theyre liars cause of whats in the Koran, anymore than i want someone to think im a bad person cause of the biblical injunction to kill every last Amalekite. Im sure the moderates have ways of reinterpretating any passage they dont like.
In any case, if ex-muslims want to convert muslims away from Islam thats their business. But it shouldnt be seen as part of the WOT, or it will undermine the WOT.
#2
Agreed. The ennemy is not islam, it is a culture of bigotry and hatred. Perhaps it could be said "revolutionnary islam" is the ennemy? As a religion, I have no love lost for islam, as it seems either overly ritualistical and not very spirituality-based (muslims I know), or violently chauvinist & aggressive (money quotes from various hadiths). Trouble is, while islam is growing geographically & demographically, it is also rotting at the core, as it is subverted by deobandists, ikwhanists, salafists, wahabists,..., in a sweeping "re-arabization" fueled by petrodollars. While we're menaced, islam itself is also under attack.
you said, "Im sure the moderates have ways of reinterpretating any passage they dont like."
Well we are two years since 9/11 and whatever the moderates are doing, they aren't winning.
The thing about Islam is that contemporaneous reinterpretations of the Koran is quite difficult. The burden of the revered books- which unambigously have harsh, warlike language when it comes to the war against the Kaffirs, the status of woman, the fate of the Jews, etc. is very great.
This is unlike in the Judeo/Christian tradition where, not only are the early revered interpretations peace instigating (the Talmud is clear that by that time there were no more Amalekites or Caananites to wipe out) but also, that contemporary reinterpretation is allowed.
On the other hand, I agree that the WoT does require the US to have Islamic allies.
What needs to be done is to allow the ex Muslims to be able to have their ideas exposed so that the ex-Muslims can compete with the $4B/year Saudi subsidy of Islam - not as part of the WoT, but as part of Freedom of Speech and Conscience.
This is a little off the original post but actually, there are no references to the Amalekites outside the Bible. Even the Bible is a bit ambiguous about this since there were numerous Amalekite raiders around between David's anointment and his ascension to the throne even though Saul had killed all but one of them only a few years earlier. If there ever was an Amalekite extermination program, it must have been long, long ago.
#6
Well we are two years since 9/11 and whatever the moderates are doing, they aren't winning.
LH - thats a huge statement and difficult to parse. Are we talking about local politics - whos ahead in Jakarta? Or about making long run changes to Islam? Which by definition wont be apparent in 2 years time.
The thing about Islam is that contemporaneous reinterpretations of the Koran is quite difficult. The burden of the revered books- which unambigously have harsh, warlike language when it comes to the war against the Kaffirs, the status of woman, the fate of the Jews, etc. is very great.
Are reintepretations that difficult? The Wahabis indicate that what 90% of muslims have been doing for the last 1200 years is based on reintepretations,and is therefore illegitimate. My limited reading of Islamic history is that there have been significant changes over the centuries, and great variety from place to place. Was little of that in a liberal direction till about 200 years ago (IE tolerance for Kufers, equality for women, etc) well of course not, those are modern themes, and one wouldnt expect such changes till Islam encounters modernity. Which it didnt do in a large way till the early years of this century. And then it largely followed secular nationalists, who in many cases were interested in change wrt Women, but were not friendly to Jews and Christians.
WRT Amalekites - who the hell knows if there are any descendants of Amalekites around. The rabbis simply said there werent any, making the commandment moot. Thats how an aggressive attempt to update a tradition (and get around explicit textual commandments) happens.
WRT to change within Judaism - yes it allowed for interpretation, but that was supposed to be based on formal rules, to resolve ambguities in the text, new situations(like new technologies) etc. It was NEVER explicitly admitted in traditional texts that what the rabbis were doing was CHANGING the religion to accommodate new ideas and new times. IF that happened (a matter of dispute among the trends within Judaism) it happened secretly, perhaps even unconsciously. The dilemma of modernity for Judaism (Per Mordechai Kaplan) was that in modern times such unconscious change is no longer possible - we know all too clearly what is happening, you cant change the religion and pretend youre only elucidating a point of text. Thus the choices are 1. Refuse further change 2. Make changes without regard to the texts 3. Or make continue to make changes by elucidating the texts, but acknowledge explicitly that you are making changes. These are Orthodox, Reform, and Conservative responses respectively.
It seems to me that Islam faces similar dilemmas. The fastest growing tendency in Islam now is Wahabism, which not only refuses further changes, but wishes to undo past accomodations to local custom (very different from O Judaism in that respect)
Strategy - right now the most important thing is to allow the moderate muslims, both reformers and pre-wahabi traditionalists, to contest with the saudi subsidy of WAHABISM. If pressuring too hard for freedom for people arguing against Islam altogether makes the work of the moderates harder, that will be a big problem.
#7
Please understand and accept the Muslim claim that their goal is to eliminate all Infidels. I know this is difficult to accept, but the truth is that unless we face reality, WE WILL NOT FIGHT AND WIN THIS WAR.
Posted by: lena ||
11/19/2003 12:23 Comments ||
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#8
biblical injunction to kill every last Amalekite Seen any Amalekites recently? Bet someone took that line seriously.:}
Posted by: Shipman 2003-11-19 10:06:04 AM
probably why the Taliban and Paki turban heads have been banning kite flying...they can't read worth a damn
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 13:18 Comments ||
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#9
I'm grateful for what these former muslims are doing, but they should also watch their backs. This may be America, but moonbats are here too. They may have just put their lives in danger.
Posted by: Charles ||
11/19/2003 18:45 Comments ||
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#10
WRT the Amalekites: As usual, giving only part of the truth perpetuates a lie. The Amalekites earned the hatred of Yahweh by attacking the rear of the Israelites during their wilderness wanderings, concentrating on the old, weak, and the children. The injunction to kill the Amalekites was very specific, and gave specific reasons.
In other passages, Yahweh commanded the Children of Israel to not bother the Moabites or the Ammonites, and to not mistreat Egyptians, even though they had been their former taskmasters. Treaties with nations outside of the Canaanites was not forbidden, and was the foundation for the deception played on the Israelites by the Gibeonites, a Canaanite tribe, who tricked Israel into an Alliance that both God and the leadership insisted had to be adhered to. A later violation of the alliance, by Saul, was met by a famine imposed by God.
If the observation that "God is a Jacksonian" doesn't make things click, you really should look into Steven Den Beste's essential library at USS Clueless...
Hey ANSWER dolts! Listen up and listen good!
Why are so many thousands on the streets of London so furious at an American President and the ongoing war in Iraq? Let us examine their misguided reasons, before getting to the truth.
#1
Why are so many thousands on the streets of London
must be a typo. Should read hundreds. snicker.
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 13:23 Comments ||
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#2
"when America in exasperation â as it did for most of its history before the European wars â will simply shrug and say: Good luck to you all."
-Exactly. Fine by me. You don't want me and my kind in Kuwait or Djibouti - sounds good. You don't want us in South Korea up in Osan, Suewon, or in Seoul - good to go. You don't want me in Okinawa or mainland Japan - awesome. You don't want us in Stuttgart, Naples, Ramstein, or Rota - outstanding. You don't want us in Roosevelt Roads or Vieques - I couldn't agree more. Get us the f*ck out of all your countries. We'll keep the aid we send as well, because my American brethren here in the states could really use that money instead for education, child care, etc. Thanks folks, it's been real, no hard feelings, good luck. BTW - if someone attacks us, we're still coming in whatever country harbored them and wiping the place out. Sincerely, The Ugly Americans.......
#3
Not a bad plan, Jarhead, but it's got one downside: If Bush announced that today, the immediate spike in world demand for clean underwear would massively outstrip the capacity of the textile industry, thus setting off a round of global price inflation.
Posted by: Matt ||
11/19/2003 14:01 Comments ||
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#4
Exactly. Fine by me. You don't want me and my kind
Damn, Jarhead. You brought a tear to my eye with that. If only we could follow through with it. *sniff*
#6
The scary thing is how appealing jarheads comments were when my instincts tell me pulling back would just mean more soldiers and marines die when we finally have to get involved again. Still, if we kept that foreign aid for the defense department and kept our military far, far superior to all comers the plan just might work...
No can do my friend; we cannot, in clear conscience, disengage from the world because it will never again disengage from us. Those times are past and so the sweet seductive song of isolationism (as sung by former Mayor of Vermont Howard Dean) must go unanswered.
If it makes you feel any better think of it this way: we are the world's parents, in our 30's and in our prime. The Europeans are our half-senile father and mother, bitching about everything we do because it doesn't measure up to how they USED to do it back in the day (Sure, Pops, sure. Here's your medication....) The developing world are our bratty, know-it-all teenage children who have grown to the point that they âre inconvenient to spank. The Arab world are our crappy, noisy neighbors who seem intent on driving the neighborhood's property values down.
#8
Secret Master - LMAO about the neighbor analogy. However, thinking about being the parent of some of these third world schmucks and the son of europe only reminds me why I'm not opposed to either euthanasia or abortion.
I know y'all, I'm just a dreamer. However, look at it this way. I'm not saying there would be any sort of decline in our training as Yank raises a good point of. We could rededicate that money to a lot of great defense items and re-fitting our forces. Our training, retention rates, and morale would go through the roof. Think about it, slow down the op tempo for meals on wheels and other b.s. ops = more families happy = more troopies stay in. Re-deploy a lot of our troops to our southern border to augment the Border Patrol guys. Plug that spewing hole of illegal immigration & drain on our tax payers & infrastructure. Let's actually uphold and defend our constitution by protecting our borders - one of the mandates of having a military in the first place. In the meantime, we'll keep training like possessed bastards and let the rest of the world worry about their own shit. Let them miss us for awhile, although trust me, I won't miss any of those places. Matter of fact, let those morons go ape-shit wiping each other out, we'll have a great trade agreement w/the winner! Fortress America baby! Bring back the mystique. I'm getting so motivated just thinking about it veins in my head are poppin' bros! I better stop writing now, I feel the delusions of grandeur starting to set in......
#9
Jarhead, I think 95% of America (Minus Berkley) agree with that course of action. However Secret Master is right. We had your attitude prior to WWII. "Let them work it out" "It's not our war" "Tojo hasn't hurt us" These were common statements and in the end is cost us many more lives. A historical point could have been made when Hitler invaded the Sudetland and the world did nothing in return. Guess what happened? Well Saddam invaded Kuwait and we sent him packing. He didn't learn the lesson, so now he is out of power FOREVER! If the LLL don't like it, they can go to the far corner of the world and create 'Saddam land' and elect him leader. Just don't call us when he shoves your kids into a shreadder.
#10
The US of A - the world's plumber. No, no, go back to the party. Billy just tried to flush a whole potato down the can. Have some more chips. Close the door and turn up the music so we don't have to listen to him work. He'll be gone soon. Pour me another glass.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 18:48 Comments ||
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#11
100% isolationism will never happen, I know this to be true. None the less, I believe in bringing back as many of our troops from foreign bases as possible. Been there, done that, still remember the hangover, as a lot of you have. I believe in absolute vigilance. I understand the WWII analogy all too well from having Grandfather's fight in both theaters, and I agree, Chamberlain & the French should've acted sooner. Their militaries were quite formidable at the beginning of the war. We (the U.S.) were not in any position at the time to do much. If you all recall, our military was in a dismal state just prior to WWII, the same can be said of us just prior to WWI. Things are different now, the Wot will still be fought, but I believe we can greatly diminish our presence in other parts of the world while definitely not diminishing any of our technical, tactical, or military superiority in all facets of the game.
#12
From what I understand jarhead you will get half of your demands. Rummy wants a few bases out there, prefering mobility, and carrier based operations. I would be surprised if the US forces in Okinawa, South Korea and western Europe are still around by the end of the Bush second term, if they are there they will be much, much smaller.
Of course we will still have troops in Iraq and Syria, nearer to the action.
Hopefully by the time the War On Terror is over the nitwits of the world will understand that if you kill Americans you die. Leave the US alone and you probably won't be noticed (Zimbabwae) but draw attention to yourself and you are history (Iraq) A lesson that was forgotten over the past few decades.
#14
I believe we need foreign bases. Yes, I've been "over there" too, and I loved every minute of it - in most places, most of the time. That's not why we need them there, though. We need the ability to rapidly respond to ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME - not just a military response, but also humanitarian response and support for legitimate national leaders and the rights of free men and women. That means keeping a few bases in both Western and Eastern Europe. That means keeping basing options in Iraq, possibly in Qatar and Bahrain. That means working with the Aussies and trying to expand our basing options in Southeast Asia after having withdrawn from the Philippines (Guam is just too %^$&%%^*!%$ small!). We need to stay in either Japan or Korea, but not both, and wherever we stay, we need enough room not only to base a division, but to EXERCISE it, with and (but not "or") without our local partners. It would be nice to have agreements that would let us station a divisional response team in South America, Southern Africa, and India, and to exercise with local military leaders until they have both the confidence and the experience to work with us in keeping the peace locally. To do that, we'd need a much bigger army - something on the order of sixteen fully manned, fully augmented, divisions, plus the air power, sea power, and intelligence to keep them operating wherever they may be.
The world respects the strong, capable man. The same goes for nations. For too long, the world has perceived the United States as militarily powerful, but spineless and without character. We're under attack because of those perceptions. We should never give anyone the opportunity to make those mistakes again.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 23:53 Comments ||
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#15
"about a second Bush term as well"
As Frank Zappa once said so eloquently, that is 'the crux of the biscuit' - the key to our future as Free people. The man "gets it" in spades.
Kudos, jarhead, to you and your fellows. You make me so damned proud and grateful! Kick ass and live forever, bro!
Rummy's listening, as Rantburgers well know, so you, SecretMaster, and Yank will all (probably) be happy (within reason!) with coming changes, I'd wager. The man's got his shit wired tight - and takes none from the ankle-biters and whining leeches. He and Mondo Condo are the only other people I'd consider voting for in our present circumstances.
The al-Guardian is running a series of letters welcoming George Bush to England. Hereâs one of the best:
Dear Mr President,
Today you arrive in my country for the first state visit by an American president for many decades, and I bid you welcome.
You will find yourself assailed on every hand by some pretty pretentious characters collectively known as the British left. They traditionally believe they have a monopoly on morality and that your recent actions preclude you from the club. You opposed and destroyed the worldâs most blood-encrusted dictator. This is quite unforgivable.
I beg you to take no notice. The British left intermittently erupts like a pustule upon the buttock of a rather good country. Seventy years ago it opposed mobilisation against Adolf Hitler and worshipped the other genocide, Josef Stalin.
It has marched for Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Khrushchev, Brezhnev and Andropov. It has slobbered over Ceausescu and Mugabe. It has demonstrated against everything and everyone American for a century. Broadly speaking, it hates your country first, mine second.
Eleven years ago something dreadful happened. Maggie was ousted, Ronald retired, the Berlin wall fell and Gorby abolished communism. All the leftâs idols fell and its demons retired. For a decade there was nothing really to hate. But thank the Lord for his limitless mercy. Now they can applaud Saddam, Bin Laden, Kim Jong-Il... and hate a God-fearing Texan. So hallelujah and have a good time.
Frederick Forsyth
Novelist
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 11:45:41 AM ||
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"Day of the Jackal" Forsyth gets it
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 11:48 Comments ||
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#2
like a pustule upon the buttock of a rather good country
Beautiful. That pretty much describes the moronic leftists on both sides of the pond.
#5
All well and good until you read the rest of the letters. There are, I believe, 60 in all from writers, artists, semi-political types, etc. and they run the gamut of Forsyth's to Harold (How Red can I Get?)Pinter's suggestion that when Bush has a drink it be the blood he has spilled.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
11/19/2003 12:50 Comments ||
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#6
Some of letters are surreal, eg.:
Dear Jorge,
Look out! Behind you!!
Hahahahahahahaha, only kidding.
Love,
DBC Pierre
Novelist
Hmmm, pithy, yet eloquent, I simply must read his novels...
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
11/19/2003 14:02 Comments ||
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Peace campaigners say they arenât disappointed at the low turn-out for George Bush protests across central London. Around 200 protesters gathered at Jubilee Gardens on Londonâs South Bank for a colourful parade. Only 200? Everybody must be in Miami for the trade talks, the weather is much nicer.
But organisers from the Stop The War Coalition said they were not concerned with the relatively small number. Aiden Hutton from Suffolk, who played the role of George Bush in the procession, said: "There have been about 14,000 police, I think thatâs a wonderful turn-out." Ha ha
As the demonstrators reached Trafalgar Square, the water in the fountain pools turned a blood red colour after a demonstrator was thought to have released dye into the water. To a chorus of booing, "George Bush" and "the Queen" addressed a crowd which contained hundreds of demonstrators and scores of journalists. Iâm sure by the time the journalists are finished, the crowd will have grown into thousands.
Nancy Elan, a musician from New York who has lived in London for 10 years, said she welcomed the opportunity to register her opposition to Mr Bush. She said: "George Bush doesnât represent many Americans, I mean he wasnât even voted in. "Of course Iâm not proud that heâs supposed to be our president." Wonder what they are going to do next year when they canât use the "Selected, Not Elected" meme anymore?
At the back of the procession was one of the three London buses which travelled to Baghdad before the Iraq war taking a group of high profile "human shields". That trip worked well, didnât it?
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 10:51:09 AM ||
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Huh? I thought this was supposed to be huge? What happened?
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
11/19/2003 11:02 Comments ||
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#2
As many as 100,000 douche bags people were preparing to march through London to protest the Iraq war and occupation
A snip from Jarheads article on Bush's visit. I'm sure it's really hard to mistake 200 people for 100,000 people. All those 1's, 2's, and 0's can be really confusing at times.
Posted by: Charles ||
11/19/2003 11:03 Comments ||
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#3
You mean we had more in little, old Rochester to protest Dick Cheney? It was those lesbians, I know it was!
#4
I think the biggest protest is supposed to be tomorrow. At first the British press was saying over 100,000 would turn out during the entire three days Bush is in England. Then this morning on BBC World I noticed they shrunk their estimate to 60,000. So counting today's 200 all they need is another 59,800-99,800 to show up tomorrow.
Posted by: g wiz ||
11/19/2003 11:32 Comments ||
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#6
Steve, the selected not elected will turn into stole the elections. They are already preparing the groundwork wtih claims about electronic voting (see, that way Democratic Election Commisioners are victims as well as voters and everyone because big business helped steal the election.)
#7
Nancy Elan," George Bush doesnât represent many Americans." No Nancy, President Bush represents ALL Americans including (unfortunately) you. Why do European take the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR and make it the âCommon American Line.â A list of people who DO NOT speak for MOST Americans: Mike Moore, Babs, Ed Asner, Sean Penn, Dixie Chicks, The Green Party, A.N.S.W.E.R., The World Workers Party, any Hollywood/Musical personality, and Ex-patriots. So quoting them is a waste of time and only shows your bias.
#8
Peace campaigners say they arenât disappointed at the low turn-out for George Bush protests across central London. Around 200 protesters gathered at Jubilee Gardens on Londonâs South Bank for a colourful parade.
It's hard to be disappointed when expectations were low to start off with.
#10
"At the back of the procession was one of the three London buses which travelled to Baghdad before the Iraq war taking a group of high profile "human shields".
Wonder what happened to the other two? I remember stories prior to the war about the one organizer who had run out of money in Baghdad and couldn't get his bus home.
Posted by: john ||
11/19/2003 12:57 Comments ||
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#11
I thought the "Scud Stud" was Arthur Kent? (I wonder what happened to him anyway?)
#12
Arthur Kent hosts "History's Mysteries" on The History Channel. Don't know if he's in journalism per se anymore.
Posted by: Dar ||
11/19/2003 13:28 Comments ||
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#13
I think the difference in the crowd estimates from 100,000 to 200 and such has to do with converting from metric to the traditional English system which is now outlawed in Merry Old England.
I donât even think they are allowed to use quartz watches anymore.
Posted by: The Kid ||
11/19/2003 13:35 Comments ||
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#14
I thought the "Scud Stud" was Arthur Kent?
I just remember Jaco panicking and acting like a scared little girl whenever the air-raid sirens went off. Kent probably was the Scud Stud, he has much better hair and makeup.
#15
I hate these schmucks that go to other countries and run their suck about our leaders. I didn't vote for Clinton but had enough respect for the office he held not to disparage the man in public. He was my president & c-n-c for 8 years though I often disagreed w/him. To me, it's disrespectful and disloyal - especially on foreign soil. Sucking up to foreigners like the Dixie skanks and mike fat fucking moore. As far as that Elan woman goes - stay in London pig. You been there 10 years already, how can you speak for any American living here now?
#16
CNN is really disappointed. All morning in the US they've been saying "Well, you know, the real big protest is scheduled for tomorrow".
Posted by: Joe ||
11/19/2003 14:13 Comments ||
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#17
RE:"Selected not Elected"
True,George Bush like every President before him was selected by Electoral College.
As a resident of Florida(Tampa area-the good side)I naturally followed voter mess in Florida.The one fact after all the hooting and hollaring is George Bush had the majority of votes in Florida.EVERY SINGLE news organization,public interest group and university study found that even with the most generous to Al Gore interpretation of the ballots,George Bush still had the most votes-differeces ranged from 100+ to 6000+.The only way for Gore to have won Florida would have been to count unmistakeable Buchanon votes as Gore votes.Whatever the intent of voter was,once you put your ballot in the box it's too late to correct any mistakes.
Posted by: Stephen ||
11/19/2003 14:23 Comments ||
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#18
CNN is really disappointed. All morning in the US they've been saying "Well, you know, the real big protest is scheduled for tomorrow".
I was thinking the same thing, poor ol' WOLF BLITZER looked lost, he probably planned his entire show around how violent and destructive the 'peace protests' were in reaction to Bush. They kept cutting to their London correspondents, and all they had was a handful of fat old hippies and reds leaning on their protest signs.
I bet they hate it when they plan on showing how The World hates Dubya, and then nothing happens.
Radical Islamic preacher Abu Qatada today began a legal battle to be released from Belmarsh Prison. Um, how about ... no?
He is being held at the top security jail under emergency powers introduced after September 11 that allow foreign nationals deemed a threat to national security to be locked up without charge. Being Binnyâs ambassador would seem to qualify him as such ...
The Home Office claims he has inspired young men to join al Qaeda and he is alleged to have recruited shoebomber Richard Reid. Sounds about right.
Lawyers for the former preacher started a case in front of a panel of three judges at the Special Immigration Appeals Commission. His legal team have been vetted by MI5 and are not allowed to discuss with their client the evidence they will hear when the court sits in closed session later this week. Evidence gathered at Guantanamo Bay will be presented by the intelligence services, which will call MI5 agents as witnesses. His lawyers will attempt to refute Government evidence that Qatada is a danger. Qatada - real name Sheikh Omar Mahmood Abu Omar — was seized by police in October last year. He was found by police in a council house in Bermondsey, where he was living since leaving his Acton home hours before the emergency legislation came into force. The Palestinian-born preacher was sentenced to death in absentia in Jordan for his part in a plot to kill American tourists. Would it be that hard just to extradite him back to Jordan if he slips the jug?
Videos made by the cleric were found in a Hamburg flat used by Mohammed Atta, the ringleader of the September 11 attacks, and Richard Reid was a frequent visitor to his meetings at the Four Feathers Youth Club in Baker Street and attended Finsbury Park Mosque. All just unrelated coincidences, no doubt. He also was rumored to have issued a fatwa from prison justifying the GSPCâs ricin plot and attempt to use cyanide gas in the London Underground. Shouldnât that alone be enough to warrant keeping him jugged?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/19/2003 10:35:16 AM ||
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#1
He must have also recruited that Newt lover, Red Ken Livingston. How can London ever expect to be the same city as NYC or Tokyo or Paris even, with a scumbag-nutcase like that running it?
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
11/19/2003 12:57 Comments ||
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#2
Pleeeeeese reeelease meee let meeee go..
For I can't bomb here any moooooore.
Amid royal pageantry and a smattering of anti-war protesters, President Bush opened a state visit Wednesday defending the invasion of Iraq as a necessary use of military power while likening reconstruction efforts to rebuilding a shattered Europe after two world wars. Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip gave a royal salute to the American leader, greeting Bush at Buckingham Palace.
Buckingham Palace, the queenâs London residence, also was a focal point for demonstrators bitterly opposed to the Iraq war. They shouted "Murderer!" and "You are not welcome!" as Bushâs helicopter ferried him to the palace Tuesday night. Wednesday morning, they gathered again behind metal barriers, watched by large numbers of yellow-jacketed police officers. The light crowd of morons who need to get a life protesters was kept several dozen yards from the palace gates, but their chants could be heard inside the palace grounds as the president greeted dignitaries. As many as 100,000 douche bags people were preparing to march through London to protest the Iraq war and occupation, a fresh sign of the opposition that swept through much of Europe in the run-up to invasion and has deepened for many Europeans since.
And the palace was the setting of a major embarrassment for British security services. A journalist got hired as a royal servant despite presenting bogus credentials. The Daily Mirror newspaper said its reporter, who quit the job as a royal footman Tuesday night after Bushâs arrival at the palace, had full access to the queenâs residence and to the presidentâs guest room for his two-month tenure. That is disconcerting.
Later, in a speech to academics at Whitehall Palace, Bush was seeking to puncture what he views as misconceptions on this side of the Atlantic about Americaâs use of force. He was subtly invoking Europeâs history of appeasement of dictators, and the price Europeans paid for their governmentsâ inaction. Bush was explicitly reminding Europeans about the critical work the Allies did to set postwar Germany on the path to democracy, a process the Bush administration and the British are trying to accelerate today in Iraq. On the first full day of a 3 1/2-day trip to England, Bush was trying to reframe Europeansâ perceptions of American military might. He wants to sway people here like Nina Baker, a Scottish Green Party pinko activist from Glasgow. "Everything about (Bush) is just deeply depressing," she said Wednesday outside Buckingham Palace. "Bush stole the presidency, Blair lied to the people, Bush led us down the path of war. They are not listening to the public." Ah yes, the oleâ stole the presidency routine — very stale now.
Bush argues that all free countries are at risk from terrorism, and that Iraq is a central front in the battle against terrorists. Wednesday, he was broadening his argument by offering what his senior aides called a "three-pillared" argument for war as a last resort. Bush was noting Europeâs long history of wars, which in the White House view has created the Europeansâ tendency to embrace international cooperative organizations like the United Nations. Bushâs speech was the centerpiece of a visit designed to win over Europeans. He was reaching out to a second audience as well, by granting an interview to the London-based Al-Sharq Al-Awsat newspaper, which has an Arab readership. Also Wednesday, he was meeting with relatives of Britons lost in the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. Thursday, Bush was to sit down with family members of British soldiers killed in Iraq. Britain has sent more troops to Iraq than any country aside from America, about 9,000, and the British have lost more than any other American ally â 52 deaths since the start of the war.
Posted by: Jarhead ||
11/19/2003 7:44:42 AM ||
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While informative of what the president is doing, the fact that there are far more LLLs on the other side of the pond didn't budge the digital surprise meter.
#2
The Daily Mirror newspaper said its reporter, who quit the job as a royal footman Tuesday night after Bushâs arrival at the palace, had full access to the queenâs residence and to the presidentâs guest room for his two-month tenure.
It's called, "Not Doing Your Research Thoroughly".
Take note, and implement the necessary corrections.
#3
I read something in the ?Times? about how these protestors have the MOST tolerant bosses in the world or the are well funded by an outside source. How many of you can take time off from work and spend money on Air fare/Hotel to go to London? Too bad England has to suffer from these idiots! P.S. God Bless the Queen.
#4
CS...from the size of the current turnout...not many...haha!
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 11:47 Comments ||
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#5
cybersarge, most protestors are students or unemployed. I'm sure TureGermanAlly can provide more detail but a bunch of Anarchist types lived illegally in and around Hamburg until the local authorities cleaned them out. Others just use their vacation time well (in Europe they get a lot).
EFL
As police braced for massive demonstrations against the war in Iraq, President Bush opened a state visit with Americaâs staunchest ally Tuesday, arguing that the use of force sometimes is the only way to defend important values. The president and his wife, Laura, were greeted Tuesday evening at Heathrow Airport by Prince Charles. The Bushes then flew on a U.S. Marine helicopter to Buckingham Palace, where they were spending three nights as the guests of Queen Elizabeth II. The relative quiet of the airport greeting provided a contrast to hoped and prayed for expected noisy anti-American anti-war and anti-democracy anti-Bush protests in other parts of the city. Not nearly as many as advertised Hundreds turned out for the first of a number of planned barf-ins protests on Tuesday, and London police prepared for somewhat larger silliness demonstrations over the next few days, including a shamble march on Thursday past Parliament that International A.N.S.W.E.R. thugs organizers said could draw in their wet dreams 100,000 rusticsfoolssimpletonsdie-hard communiststenured academics demonstrators. Wonder if theyâll have any large puppets? As Fred says, nothing shows youâre serious in a demonstration better than large puppets.
In a speech on Wednesday, Bush will argue that war is sometimes necessary as a last choice, said a senior administration official traveling with him on Air Force One. ``History has shown that there are times when countries must use force to defend the peace and to defend values,ââ Bush was to say. He also is expected to renew his call for countries across the globe, particularly in the Middle East, to embrace democracy. Something the dingbat demonstrators will scorn, Iâm sure.
The president will acknowledge that the Iraq war and occupation are unpopular, the official said. ``It has been a difficult time, when the alliance has been asked to do difficult things,ââ the president will suggest, said the official, speaking on the condition of anonymity. Bush also will praise the British for overcoming adversity in the past in defending freedom and democratic values. The Brits, as usual for them, rose to the occasion. Bless âem.
Both British and U.S. officials sought to put the best face on a visit that seemed not likely to be remembered more for anti-freedom anti-war street demonstrations than for the celebration of the Anglo-American alliance that had been intended by both governments. A larger arrival ceremony was planned for Wednesday at Buckingham Palace. After his speech on the trans-Atlantic alliance, Bush was to meet with British families who lost loved ones in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and attend a banquet at the palace. Iâm betting that Bush breaks the schedule when he meets with the families by staying with them much longer than scheduled. He did the same thing right after 9/11 in New York. That more than anything showed me what kind of man he was.
On Thursday, Bush was to tour London and meet with British soldiers who fought in Afghanistan and Iraq. There are 9,000 British troops in Iraq. On Friday he will travel to northern England to join Blair and his wife, Cherie, in the town where the Blairs have a home. In the meetings with Blair, Bush will discuss developments in Iraq, the Middle East peace process and nuclear tensions with Iran and North Korea, aides said. Aides said there would likely be no announcement from Bush on the continued holding of nine British citizens by the United States at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
What's to announce? "We've changed our minds"?
Queen Elizabeth, who invited Bush nearly 18 months ago, has met with each of the 11 American presidents who have served during her reign, beginning with Harry Truman in 1952. Bushâs visit, however, was the first one to be dubbed a full-fledged ``state visitââ by the British, although then-President Reaganâs 1982 visit had most of the trappings of one, including a visit to the queen in Windsor Castle and an address to Parliament.
And street demonstrations...
The protest rallies scheduled during Bushâs visit will include an anti-American anti-Bush march through London on Thursday, culminating in the planned toppling of a mock statue of Bush in Trafalgar Square. At a demonstration outside Buckingham Palace shortly ahead of Bushâs arrival, Ann "Old Bat" Butler, 63, shouted that Bush thinks heâs Marshall Dillon Wyatt Earp. ``This countryâs lost enough men in war,ââ said Butler, one of about 100 loonies protesters. But Mike Rigas of Boston, 31, wearing a U.S. flag and a British poppy, said he came out to ``support my president. Heâs coming to a tough crowd here, but I believe the U.S. and Britain are engaged in a a noble cause in Iraq. Funny how the old bat canât find anything good to say whilst the young guy sees what weâre doing as noble.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2003 12:16:46 AM ||
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Galloway was there - surely he qualifies as a large puppet
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 8:37 Comments ||
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#6
This is the story of a wooden puppet, who only wished to be relevant. Disney's "Gallowaynio".
Posted by: Charles ||
11/19/2003 11:10 Comments ||
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#7
Ann "Old Bat" Butler, 63, shouted that Bush thinks heâs Marshall Dillon Wyatt Earp. ``This countryâs lost enough men in war,ââ said Butler, one of about 100 loonies protesters.
Hmmm...only 100? I'm beginning to suspect that this massive march tomorrow is going to be a spectacular dud. Furthering my suspicions, the Instapundit links an article from the Guardian, (that's right, the Guardian ) noting most Britians support America and think it's a force for good.
here is the [broken] link: Highly recommended reading.
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story
/0,12956,1087545,00.html
Now whyyyyy would the ever anti-American Guardian suddenly be willing to publish such a positive piece??? Hmmm...could it be that they are trying to put some distance between themselves and the embarassment, in the hopes of retaining a shred of credibility in their reporting? "Hey, just like we said, the majority of people support Bush." Heh, heh, I guess we shall see.
Also interesting is the age of the protestors being quoted, especially since the Guradian reports, "A majority of "twentysomethings" welcome Mr Bush. Hostility is strongest amongst the over-65s." ooooh ouch, that's gotta hurt the desperate-to-be-cool crowd!
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 11:11 Comments ||
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#8
Bush's speach was really good, he should have given it before the Parliament. Any heckling would have seriously soiled the heckler, not Bush.
Saw some footage of protests this morning, there was more than a hundred and they had a float made up like a pink tank. Very clever. How were gays treated by the Taliban again?
#12
Galloway was there - surely he qualifies as a large puppet.
More like a Turtle - he's always got his head pulled waaaayyyy inside - only from the wrong end.
"Hostility is strongest amongst the over-65s." ooooh ouch, that's gotta hurt the desperate-to-be-cool crowd!
It must really, really hurt to be an aging hippie, and still nobody pays any attention to you.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 15:10 Comments ||
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Four Islamic militants have been jailed for planning a terrorist attack at a packed Paris stadium in Paris during an international football match. Police arrested the men the day before the 2001 match at the Stade de France between France and Algeria in raids of their apartments in working-class suburbs. They moved in after intelligence agents bugged a phone call between one of the suspects and a member of an extremist Algerian movement. In the raid, police found bomb-making materials, pistols, bullets, a bullet-proof vest and a tract written by Osama bin Laden. A Paris court has jailed the men - three of them Algerians - for terms ranging from 30 months to six years.
#4
Known Bin Ladenists were preparing to attack a stadium, perhaps killing several thousand, and the max sentence they can come up with is six lousy years?
France = doomed.
Posted by: g wiz ||
11/19/2003 21:04 Comments ||
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#5
G Wiz, they save the longer sentences for hate speech.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 21:42 Comments ||
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#6
Actually, I think a SHORTER sentence should be in order. After all, how long does it take to put a bullet into these thugs' heads?
Kill enough of them, and the rest will decide Jihad is just too hard a game to play.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 23:29 Comments ||
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Turkey believes Al Qaida agents in Iran were involved in the suicide strikes Saturday against two synagogues in Istanbul. The sources said the extent of planning and logistics appear to be the work of Al Qaida operatives in Iran. The intelligence sources said the attacks could have been carried out by Al Qaida or the Iranian-backed Hizbullah group. The sources Al Qaida operations chief Seif Al Adel was believed to have organized the attack from somewhere in Iran. It canât be a healthy thing to be a group dependent on the goodwill of Muslim nations, but to offend and bring your group to the attention of Turks by what really constitutes an act of war. I wonder if there are any behind the scene discussions going on now between Turkey and Iran?
#3
Maybe a joint smackdown by Israel and Turkey of the Iran-backed Hezbollah in Lebanon?
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 18:14 Comments ||
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#4
Don't we have to wait for the smoking gun. I looked at the pictures of the rubble and none of it was smoking. Maybe next time we can get the cameras there faster to catch the smoke - then we can do something about terrorism.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 18:21 Comments ||
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Experts at Bulgariaâs Interior Ministry have received no information about possible Al-Qaeda activity in the country, the Ministryâs Chief Secretary Gen. Boyko Borissov told local bTV channel early on Wednesday. That may just mean that theyâve been quiet about it ...
His words came in response to an article published at Sofia-based "24 Chasa" daily claiming that Turkish special services were investigating persons allegedly involved in weapons channels through Bulgaria and Romania in a bid to track down the supplier of the bombs in Saturdayâs attacks that killed at least 23 people outside two Istanbul synagogues. The newspaper cited confidential information of the Turkish consulate in Munich according to which the terrorists were planning to plant bombs in different capitals within a period of 20 days. Interesting, because Zarqawiâs al-Tawhid was planning a similar hit to that on Jewish targets in Germany back in April 2002. Looks like al-Qaeda really hates Attaturk for creating a reasonably sane (and secular) Muslim state.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/19/2003 10:30:07 AM ||
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These are some of the major headlines and their brief stories in Turkeyâs press on November 19, 2003. CONFESSIONS OF AL-QAIDA
Confessions of a militant have unveiled acts of the Al-Qaida terrorist network, which is believed to have been behind Saturdayâs devastating bomb attacks on Istanbulâs two main synagogues. Mehmet Ince, who was captured on July 30, 2002 in a joint operation of security forces and the National Intelligence Agency (MIT), confessed that he was given military and bomb training in Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan. Ince claimed that Al-Qaida had been collecting illegal money and provided its militant with false passports.
ââSOME COUNTRIES ARE CRYING CROCODILE TEARSââ
Following Saturdayâs dual bomb attacks on two synagogues in Istanbul, the government has reproached some European countries for extending support to the terrorist organization for years. Justice Minister and Government Spokesman Cemil Cicek underlined that many countries had supported terrorists for years, adding, ââsome countries, which sent us messages to extend their condolences should think about everything once again. Otherwise, they would have been crying crocodile tears.ââ Noting that some countries used terrorists as âpolitical instrumentsâ, Cicek said, ââsome countries have still been suspending Turkeyâs requests for extradition of terrorists due to unconvincing reasons. So, how can they dare do send these messages of condolences?ââ Ouch, thatâs gonna leave a mark!
ââATTACK HAS LINK WITH AFGHANISTANâ
Foreign Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Abdullah Gul said that it has emerged that bomb attacks staged on two synagogues in Istanbul had link with an organization in Afghanistan in terms of belief and understanding. Gul said that terrorist action was an action which targeted all humanity and stated that the world should fight against terrorism as a single front.
And hereâs another Turkish-Afghanistan connection:
SURPRISING MISSION
NATO which undertook the command of International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan a few months ago is getting prepared to assign Hikmet Cetin who earlier served as Parliament Speaker and Foreign Minister to an important mission in Kabul. U.S. diplomatic sources told Milliyet that NATO Secretary General George Robertson would announce on Wednesday that Cetin would serve as the highest civilian administrator of NATO in Afghanistan. An official from the United States told Milliyet that Cetin was a leader who was known with his skills and political experience. Congratulations.
ââWE DO NOT ACCEPT MESSAGES FROM TERRORISTSââ
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan stressed in a speech he delivered at the group meeting of his Justice and Development Party (AK Party), ââif a message is tried to be given to our state through terrorism, we absolutely reject it. This heinous attack, in fact, targeted Turkey. It was understood once again that terrorism cannot have any nationalities or religious beliefs. Organizations and states expecting terrorism to help themselves, can face with the same trouble in future.ââ
âIâM REJECTING MESSAGE GIVEN THROUGH TERRORISMâ
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that no one could threaten Turkey through terrorism and stated that if there was a message which wanted to be given through terrorism to state or government, he was rejecting it. Erdogan who addressed Justice and Development Partyâs (AK Party) group meeting talked about bomb attacks staged on two synagogues in Istanbul and killing 25 people. ââWhen I was in Cyprus, I heard some rumors asking why I donât put an emphasis our citizens of Jewish origin? People who died in bomb attacks are all citizens of Turkey. No matter what their religions are, all of them are Turkish citizens and our people. We have made the stress on it,ââ he stated.
Bravo! Erdogan's a man, whether you always agree with him or not.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 9:21:52 AM ||
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#1
General impression on theses? Whatever can be said about Turkey, one thing remains certain : unlike many others european nations (including mine; note that I am a castrat myself), they still haven't been neutered by political correctness, relativism, avoidance of conflicts, and all of the others "benefits" of being a post-modern society. I'm going to irrate Murat, but it is a time trip, like looking at a pre-1914 France or Belgium.
#2
Explain yourself closer Anonymus, and what country are you from?
Posted by: Murat ||
11/19/2003 10:02 Comments ||
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#3
Murat, I meant that as some kind of compliment; you've been disrespected often here, sometimes quite injustly, and I'm surprized your interest is pointed by such a remark. Perhaps you adjust better to ad nominem comments. IMHO, Turkey still seems to "believe in itself", still seems able to act, even act harshly; note I may not be talking about the real Turkey you live in, just the impression I have. I'm from la belle France, and my great personnal theory(tm) is that the country never recovered from its 1914-1945 suicide/traumatizing decolonization. I guess we could use a little more nationalism, a little more strenght in our supposed values (equality, laicity, unity of the state,...), a little more pride.
#4
I've never disrespected Murat being a Turkish patriot, demanding that his country act in a manner that it support its citizens. My beef is that he doesn't want anyone else to be a patriot to THEIR country, or to demand that THEIR government act in a manner that supports THEIR citizens.
However, I DO respect Murat, who embraces his nation and people, warts and all, over Aris, who seems to favor subjugating his own nation and people to a twice removed from direct elected EU parliament and president, and appears all too ready to chuck his fallible neighbors in favor of a yet-to-be-proven transnational government.
Give me patriots over tranzis any day of the week: At least you know where the hell the former stand.
#5
Ptah> "who seems to favor subjugating his own nation and people to a twice removed from direct elected EU parliament and president his own nation"
The EU parliament is directly elected, not "twice removed from" and such nonsense. Why do you keep on babbling about stuff you have no idea about?
And I quite support making the (still non-existent) EU president directly elected also (though the US doesn't have a directly elected president either btw) -- something which is ofcourse strongly opposed by all the anti-federalists, since 99% of the anti-federalists aren't actually favouring democracy or freedom or independence or whatever they say they claim, they are only favouring nationalism in all its "let's mistrust those evil devil foreigners" ugly glory.
And 'European' *is* my own nation and people. I simply want said nation united, the same way I would have wanted Athens united with Sparta in a voluntary union of peoples.
It's not called "subjugation" when it's done mutually and voluntarily, Ptah. A voluntary mutual subjugation is called "marriage" instead.
Not that I'd expect you to understand what that means.
#6
But Aris, how can it be mutual if one partner doesn't get to vote on whether or not he/she wants the marriage? In a certain country, it looks more like a shotgun wedding, since no vote will be allowed because daddy (their betters) know what's best.
#7
"And 'European' *is* my own nation and people. I simply want said nation united, the same way I would have wanted Athens united with Sparta in a voluntary union of peoples."
Actually I like this far better than blatherings of some euro lefties that they are "beyond nationalism", that nationalism is really fascism, or is only for us benighted Americans, etc. Ignoring the problems with running a democracy without emotional dedication to the polity - which dedication IS nationalism. If Europe REALLY has dedication of the type Aris expresses, they have a reasonable chance of building a real democracy. As myself a citizen of a federal state, how can i assert otherwise.
#8
This discussion group would be far less interesting without the likes of Aris or Murat, Hiryu, or any of the others I usually disagree with. I occasionally even get something useful from Murat's posts (when he's not trying to see how much trouble he can stir up, but engages in thoughtful debate), and on a lesser degree from Aris. JFM ALWAYS provides interesting comment, even when I don't agree, as do Bulldog and TGA. While there are those whose comments are always worth reading, and a few whose comments are seldom worth reading, we get exposed to a broad band of commentary which helps us to understand the situation as well as we can, and to come to conclusions - partly based on what we read, partly based on who and what we are, and partly based on how we see the world. In order to make this the best possible form of discussion, good points, good ideas should be acknowledged as such, and idiotarian statements attacked for the stupidity they espouse. The idea, however, is to attack the message, not the messanger. Sometimes the message IS the messanger - that's when the fun begins!
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 13:46 Comments ||
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#9
And 'European' *is* my own nation and people
LOL. Put down the drugs Aris.
Posted by: Rafael ||
11/19/2003 14:01 Comments ||
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#10
Anonymous2U> Not sure what country you are talking about. Cyprus? I think the only reason a vote didn't take place there was because the situation was complicated enough with half the country occupied by foreign troops, and the two sides in the middle of negotiations about reunification, which also include the very fact of EU entry as a motive.... If you also had *both* communities voting twice, for EU entry and for reunification... um, that'd be even more of a mess.
But I don't think *anyone* can seriously argue that Cyprus' people don't want the EU or that it's enforced to them by "daddy" from above. Support in polls is so overwhelming that it's ridiculous - above 80%.
liberalhawk> It depends on what you call nationalism. I do also see the EU as a stepping stone to abolishing nationalism altogether. Perhaps in a couple hundred years we'll have a global planetwide federation of sorts. Still distant, that dream, though, so I'll settle for surpassing internal European nationalistic divisions. And it *is* a big step.
Rafael> *shrug* I often feel more European than I feel specifically "Greek". If you don't believe me that's no concern to me.
#11
liberalhawk> It depends on what you call nationalism. I do also see the EU as a stepping stone to abolishing nationalism altogether. Perhaps in a couple hundred years we'll have a global planetwide federation of sorts.
Together with Istanbul Police Chief Celalettin Cerrah, Guler held a press conference on Wednesday. ââAs a result of security forcesâ works on evidences gathered from the scenes of the attacks, it was revealed that it was Cabuk who staged the bomb attack on Beth Israel synagogue. Meanwhile, DNA tests confirmed that Elaltuntas carried out the attack on Neve Shalom synagogue,ââ he said. Guler told reporters, ââwhen we look at the target and method of the actions and the connections of these two people, they are parallel with terrorist actions undertaken by al-Qaida terrorist network in other parts of the world.ââ Defining the two attacks as the biggest terrorist attacks staged in Turkey and Istanbul in recent years, Guler said, ââit has become definite that the bomb attacks staged in Istanbul were suicide attacks staged by loading a great deal of explosives on lorries. Twenty-five people, including two suicide bombers, died and 303 people were injured in two blasts... As a result of investigation of evidence in the spots of two blasts, it has been verified with DNA testing that Mesut Cabuk born in eastern Bingol province in 1974 was the suicide bomber in attack on Beth Israel Synagogue and Gokhan Elaltuntas born in Bingol in 1981 was responsible for the attack on Neve Shalom Synagogue.ââ CSI-Istanbul got the test results back.
Guler added, ââwhen the target and style of attacks and the connections of the assailants are taken into consideration, the incidents at the synagogues show parallels with acts carried out by al Qaeda.ââ Security units continued their investigation, Guler said. Guler recalled that interrogations and investigation were carried out in coordination with State Security Court (DGM) Chief Prosecutorâs Office and refrained from commenting on the issue since DGM banned leakage of information to press. Noting that Istanbul police had well-evaluated evidence collected after the attacks, Guler said that it was a big success of Turkish police and Istanbul Police Department. So far, so good.
ââFurther investigations will be carried out in coordination and cooperation with international organizations and intelligence units. Thus, the attacks will be totally illuminated,ââ Guler said.
Rather more forthcoming than the Soddies, I'd say. And rather more competent...
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 9:02:21 AM ||
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#1
More details: The daily newspaper Hurriyet, citing police, said Wednesday that the suspects were members of Beyyiat el-Imam, a little-known group formed in al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan. The group's name means "Allegiance to the Imam" in Arabic. Guler said both suicide bombers were from the southeastern town of Bingol, a hotbed of underground Islamic group of Hezbollah, which is not linked to the Lebanon-based group with the same name. It was not clear if the two attackers have had ties with the group.
Al-Qaida claimed responsibility for the bombings Sunday in messages to two Arabic-language newspapers. It was not possible to authenticate those claims. An outlawed Turkish radical group called the Islamic Great Eastern Raiders' Front, or IBDA-C, also claimed responsibility, but Turkish authorities said the attack was too sophisticated to be carried out by that group.
Turkey has been chasing possible links between local Islamic groups and al-Qaida since a notebook containing instructions in Turkish on how to carry out suicide bombings was found in an al-Qaida camp in Afghanistan in 2001. Newspapers reported that the accomplices of the suicide bombers also were two Turks - 27-year-old Azad Ekinci, a schoolmate of Cabuk, and Feridun Ugurlu. Ekinci and Ugurlu fled to Dubai in the United Arab Emirates on Oct. 28 before the bombings, Hurriyet said. Police did not confirm the reports.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 9:46 Comments ||
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#2
Another friggin' group? How do they expect us to keep 'em straight? I would think they'd have run out of names by now.
#5
Update: ``One can't say with 100 percent certainty, but the first investigations indicate that these people have traveled a few times to Afghanistan,'' Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said at a news conference in Stockholm, Sweden. ``I think that we need some more time to better shed light on this issue.''
Eight people, including relatives of two suspected accomplices who allegedly provided the pickup trucks, were under interrogation, private CNN-Turk television said. Police would not confirm the report
But they did send out for a case of truncheon cleaner and a liter of mustache wax.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 16:50 Comments ||
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Slightly EFL
Spanish police have arrested 12 suspected leaders of the militant Basque separatist group ETA. More than 150 officers raided homes in the Basque provinces of Guipuzcoa and Navarra and the city of Seville after an order from judge Baltasar Garzon. An interior ministry spokesman told Reuters news agency the arrests brought the number of suspected ETA members detained this year to 167. Spanish Interior Minister Angel Acebes said the arrests dealt a significant blow to the organisationâs infrastructure. "International legal co-operation is suffocating ETA and the terrorists," he was quoted by Reuters as saying. "Today ETA is weaker than ever, but unfortunately ETA still exists." Last month police in Spain and France arrested 34 people suspected of links to the group. Tuesdayâs raids were the results of information obtained from documents seized following the capture of alleged senior ETA member Ibon Fernandez de Iradi. He was arrested in south-west France in December 2002, but escaped from a police station in Bayonne two days later and remains on the run. He is believed to be a logistics chief, responsible for organising back-up for teams who carry out attacks across the Spanish-French border.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
11/19/2003 4:15:59 AM ||
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Induhmedia: watch for BIAS! EFL. Hat tip LGF
CAMPAIGNERS READY TO GET BUSH SECTIONED UNDER THE MENTAL HEALTH ACT Oh brother.
Press Release 2 Â 18th November 2003 For immediate release
Armed with a doctorâs certificate, recommendations from two psychiatrists and a straight-jacket, a group of campaigners will attempt to get George W Bush sectioned under the Mental Health Act (1983) during his visit to Britain this week. ?Huh
Under the Act, a person is subject to compulsory admission for assessment in a mental institution if a doctor fears they are âlikely to cause harm to themselves or othersâ.
Any doctor? Anywhere?
Using their knowledge of the system, the group composed of doctors, psychologists and mental health professionals will attempt to force an emergency section. I donât believe this.
An emergency admission for observation under Section 4 of the Act lasts for three days and can be sanctioned by one doctor. Admission under Section 2 can last for 28 days, whilst under Section 4 the patient can be detained for up to six months. The group behind this plan is he No Confidence Campaign, a non-aligned group of activists and health care professionals who were formed before the outbreak of war in an attempt to force a vote of no confidence in the Tony Blairâs leadership on the grounds of mental incapacity. They believe that President Bushâs mental stability also needs to be examined. His youthful penchant for sticking firecrackers in live frogs and his defence of the practice of branding fraternity pledges with heated coat hangers has been reported in the New York Times and concerns about his messianic style of leadership are widespread.
I've never heard either of those charges. Is there documentation? Googling "New York Times"+"George Bush"+firecracker doesn't turn it up.
Consultant psychiatrist Dr A Walker said today; Okay, even if this was accurate, people change.
âIn Mr Bush we see an individual who believes he has been chosen by god, who holds to certain beliefs regardless of logic or fact, and who demonstrates an inability to empathise. These are classic symptoms of someone suffering from psychotic grandiose delusions.â Oh, he empathizes well, and is logical. Sorry, Induhmedia liars.
This is what used to be known as a publicity stunt. I fail to see how it makes these wienerheads look any brighter, even to each other.
Posted by: Atrus ||
11/19/2003 10:50:20 AM ||
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#1
Nice of them to demonstrate that the law needs an additional provision requiring that the petitioners must first prove that they're of sound mind...
Posted by: Charles ||
11/19/2003 10:58 Comments ||
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#3
who believes he has been chosen by god; classic symptoms of someone suffering from psychotic grandiose delusions
Sounds like some guy named Mohammad, me thinks. I wonder if these wankers are willing to take the logical step that all Muslims are nuts too?
#4
Any psychologist who attaches their name to this should lose their right to practice psychology. Clearly they are blinded by politics and unable to relate to the real world.
#6
Anyone heard from Bulldog this morning? I would be interested to hear his take on this. Me I think the whole thing is funny. I think the Bobbies should take a couple of whacks on these âDoctorsâ heads and see if that cure them. Does anyone doubt that the patients now run the hospital?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/19/2003 12:59 Comments ||
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#10
I personally would like to see them serve the papers with 250 Secret Service people around Bush. That would be a hoot! Can you just imagine the look on their faces?
#13
I almost wish they were able to get around security (sounds like the brits don't take it too seriously anyway) and approach Dubya with that straight jacket. A few contusions and busted heads later, maybe a few reds would know better in the future.
Hi CS, I'm around. But not much to add to all the reports - speak for themselves really. Like yourself, I think the whole thing's been quite amusing so far. That may change tomorrow - there may yet be some serious civil disobedience. The poor attendance today is quite surprising - probably a combination of over-hyping and fair weather anti-Bush folk put off by the touted terrorist activity. Pretty ironic, really.
Dissent being crushed! I blame John Ashcroft. Not EFL, this was too tasty. Yvonne Ridley, a senior editor with Al-jazeeraâs newly launched English website in Doha, Qatar, has been sacked by her Gulf bosses. Oh, dear! Not Yvonne!
The journalist, who rose to international fame in September 2001 when she was captured by the Taliban in Afghanistan, joined the website in July. Last night Sister Yvonne said she was bewildered and hurt but until she had written confirmation of being fired and the reasons why, she was unable to comment further. "I can say no more."
In the last two years Yvonne has become an international peace campaigner and moonbat extraordinaire anti-war activist sharing platform with high profile personalities including the Rev. Jesse Jackson, British politicians George Galloway and Tony Benn, Palestinian activist Leila Khaled, and Ahmed Ben Bella, former Algerian President and revolutionary leader. Her anti-Bush views are universally known and there are fears among colleagues that her vocal criticisms of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan may have led to her demise. Um, no, not exactly. Keep reading.
Exclusive stories and pictures revealing US soldiers searching and tying up Iraqi and Afghani children have been condemned by the US Central Command. âIt is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Ridleyâs revealing stories have led to her downfall. The site has already pulled two anti-American caricatures after managers received pressure from the Americans,â said one source close to Aljazeera. Nope, thatâs not it either. Read on...
The man responsible for sacking Sister Yvonne is Abdulaziz Ibrahim Al-Mahmoud who issued the order but did not have the guts to confront her with it, instead he sent his secretary to deliver the news to Sister Yvonneâs home in Doha. Wuss. Couldnât stand up to a girl. But weâre getting closer to the real reason we wonât have her breathless prose to kick around anymore...
Al-Mahmoud is not a big fan of hers after she derided him for shopping in Marks and Spencer during a recent trip to London with his eager-to-please sidekick Ahmed Sheikh. Marks and Spencer is the famous Israel-supporting shop which is boycotted by many Muslims in the UK! BINGO! Itâs the Jooos fault by proxy as usual. Canât have an Al-Jazeera big caught shopping at a Zionist occupied department store.
In recent weeks Al Mahmoud has escorted two parties from the US embassy around the offices of Aljazeera, giving Sister Yvonneâs work station a wide berth because of its anti-war and anti Bush messages as well as a Palestinian flag situated there prominently! Unfortunately, Marks and Spencer were all out of surprise meters. Though I doubt they work all that well anyway.
The regime in Saudi Arabia has also not escaped Sister Yvonneâs attention â something not lost on Al-Mahmoud who was refused entry to the Kingdom recently. Hmmm...catching your boss in an act of hypocrisy and then ratting out your bossâ boss...yep that sounds like grounds for termination to me. Sheâs probably lucky to not get stoned.
But who is Yvonne Ridley?! Yvonne Ridley was a journalist of the famous London Mirror newspaper. She was captured by the Taliban when she went undercover into the country wearing the all-enveloping burqa dress of an Afghan woman. She was detected and was held for 10 days before being released on humanitarian grounds on the orders of noteworthy humanitarianMullah Omar. Her outspoken views are well known, especially those praising and supporting Palestinian martyrdom operations. She has endeared herself to the Muslim world and is a recent convert to Islam. Sister Yvonne has devoted much of her spare time and energy to helping brothers and sisters around the world. Gee, Marks and Spencer seem to be out of sympathy meters too.
Now it is OUR turn to stand staunchly by her side. At least we should demand answers from Aljazeera as to why she was sacked. Rantburgers? Hereâs YOUR chance to make a difference!
#5
What's this "Sister" Yvonne B.S.? The article states she's a recent convert to Islam, so is she some twisted Muslim nun? Does she sing "Climb Ev'ry Mountain" from under her burkha?
Posted by: Dar ||
11/19/2003 9:27 Comments ||
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#6
Dar LOL!
Visualize Blue Burkha Music Box playing "Climb Every Mountain".
#7
It's just too, too sad. Poor little Yvonne has her dreams crushed by the chauvanism of the very chauvanist society she loved so much. Kinda pathetic.
Note to self: add M&S vouchers to Xmas shopping- and wishlists.
#9
Visualize Blue Burkha Music Box playing "Climb Every Mountain". Rich! We'll be rich I tell ya!
I'd throw away the fortune just to see OBL (Deceased ) face when he hears the burkha start playing.
Posted by: Charles ||
11/19/2003 10:48 Comments ||
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#10
Her anti-Bush views are universally known and there are fears among colleagues that her vocal criticisms of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan may have led to her demise.
Well, that pretty much crushed any credibility she may have had as a "journalist". Time to start looking for a new career. Maybe she can move to San Francisco and become a professional protester.
#11
Bomb-a-rama: Ridley's credibility! Might as well look for unicorns. The Independent had a terrific interview with her in the spring. Fred posted about it, but the links no longer work (that was back in the days when it was free). I've reproduced some of the Independent's article here.
Caution: Many of the links in that post no longer work, including the link back to Rantburg.
Posted by: Mike ||
11/19/2003 13:00 Comments ||
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#14
It just never ceases to amaze me what some people will do for ATTENTION in this life. Sounds to me to be a perfect candidate for Dr. Walker and his crew.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
11/19/2003 13:18 Comments ||
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#15
Jeez Mike how about a little coffee warning?
Some of the lyrics in Burka Blue include: "You give me all your love, you give me all your kisses, and then you touch my Burka and do not know who is it"
U.S. deploys 20,000 troops near Syrian border
The United States has deployed 20,000 troops along the Syrian border after Syria failed to stop militants from crossing into Iraq. Or they donât care; either way, weâve noticed...
As late as October, U.S. officials said hundreds of Islamic insurgents were crossing into Iraqi from Syria. They said Syrian authorities had failed to respond to U.S. appeals to stop the flow of insurgents. Time for Operation Bitch Slap!
U.S. military officials said the U.S. troop presence was bolstered beginning in September and has resulted in a significant drop in infiltration from Syria. The U.S. troops are based in the Iraqi province of Anbar, Middle East Newsline reported. Great, Iâm reporting old news...
Maj. Gen. Charles Swannack, commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, said the military completed a 200 percent increase in U.S. troops at Anbar. Swannack told a briefing in Baghdad on Tuesday that the increased deployment was also meant to stop infiltration from other Iraqi neighbors, such as Jordan and Saudi Arabia. So we had troops on the border before, and now the number is 20,000? Thatâs my take, FWIW...
But the U.S. presence has not halted the flow of insurgents from Syria. On Monday, the U.S. military said six suspected insurgents were captured near the Syrian border. One of them was later killed when he tried to attack a guard. Stupid fuck...
Swannack said the U.S. troop presence in Anbar has resulted in reducing the flow of insurgents from Syria. He said Islamic insurgents have launched attacks against the U.S. force near the 500-kilometer Syrian border. But he called the attacks ineffective. "Mahmoud, go fetch my exploding donkey!"
"We are not fighting foreign fighters coming across the border in significant numbers," Swannack said. "We are fighting mostly former regime locals." Check the passports. All of them...
#1
If the 82nd is there, most likely they are supporting SF nasty boys. Hopefully we're sending direct action teams out to herd them into 82nd firesacks. Or deep into Syria to blow up the camps and kill them on their way to the border. A few heads on sticks on their side will make baby assad crappen the ol' pants.
#2
Like I said, it's time to start a betting pool.
First Border Skirmish
First Bombing Sortie
Invasion
Posted by: Daniel King ||
11/19/2003 17:19 Comments ||
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#3
I heard a guy on the radio (John Loftus of www.john-loftus.com, who has interesting intelligence contacts) say that it looks like the Syrian invasion will be in the Spring. He also says the missing WMD is in Syria and in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley (guarded by a Syrian tank battalion).
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/19/2003 17:37 Comments ||
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#4
I've never been to Leb, so I don't know the terrain and only know the Bekaa Valley by rep. Is it conducive to SF raids? Difficult to get into and out of by choppers? Anyone know???
#6
If theat one rail line gets reconnected, we ought to fill the first passenger car full of headless bodies of inflitrators. Would kind of send an interesting message.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 18:24 Comments ||
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#7
US Army should move west until they can stop infiltration across the LEbanon border.
Tibor, I want to believe you but I just don't see any kind of invasion in an election year.
#8
Yank --
That was my thought, too, but Loftus' explanation is that Kay's report will be out by then and will implicate Syria in the diversion of Iraq's WMD. He thinks that the political situation in Iran (Syria's puppetmaster) will be sufficiently bad for the mullahs that nobody but Hezbollah will be willing to fight for Syria, and Israel will have a good excuse (another suicide bombing or more Kessam rockets) to pave Southern Lebanon (i.e., pull a Hama on Hezbollah). One can always hope . . . .
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/19/2003 19:16 Comments ||
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#9
The other thing Loftus said was that the expectation is that Syria's "army" would be destroyed in about 3 days by a coordinated US-Israeli attack.
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/19/2003 19:19 Comments ||
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#10
I'd rather have the Turks than the Israelis.
Depends on whether or not al-Qaeda can make the Turks angry enough.
#12
I agree Syria's "army" would collapse in three days, or less. That's becoming the standard. The problem is the irregulars at that point. Will Iraq be stable enough for the US to deal with both countries. No infiltration through the West would help.
The political situation, if clear cut as you describe, could help Bush because the Democrats would be put in a bind of looking very weak, or going against their hardcore at about the time of the primaries. And as soon as the puppet show starts marching Bush's ratings go up and the left's ratings go down.
Good God, no! Between the Turks blocking the northern front and sending their special ops guys into areas we were patrolling, I just don't trust them enough.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/19/2003 23:18 Comments ||
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#14
I miss the futures game, though I agree it's immoral to allow the big money bets.
I take the Israelis, in April. There will be talk of the Turks...but they'll waffle and waver, attempting to eeek more and more out of the deal, until they (once again) walk away with nothing.
al-Reuters. Watch for spin.
Islamists battling the U.S. occupation of Iraq are trumpeting their "victories against the infidels" through video clips posted on extremist Web sites. All those disembodied lips from Islamofascists. EeeewwwwwâŠ
At least two Islamist sites, accessed by Reuters on Wednesday, showed brief clips documenting what was described as attacks by the mujahideen, or Islamic fighters, on U.S. troops in Iraq. The grainy images showed what appeared to be a U.S. military vehicle being struck by mortars, and a roadside explosion targeting what seemed to be another U.S. vehicle. There was nothing in the videos to indicate where or when the incidents took place and they did not show any bodies. Gee, I wonder WHY.
On one site, Al Mujahedun, the images were entitled "Victories of the Islamic Army in Iraq" and were found among other clips with titles such as "The American Hell in Iraq" and "The Russian Hell in Chechnya." It was impossible to authenticate the images on the site, which frequently changes its Web address. Islamist Web sites often carry statements calling on Muslims to fight the U.S. peacekeeping occupation in Iraq. "Theyâre not enslaving or intimimidating the people, nor are they treating the wimmin like shit!"
London-based Islamist Yasser al-Sirri, head of the Islamic Observation Center, said he had received a CD containing the video clips about a month ago, but did not say from whom. Sirri, whose own Web site monitors other Islamic sites such as Al Mujahedun, said such videos have been circulating for some time. He said the main purpose of the videos was to counter the "American lies" about the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq. He said Uncle Sam lied and his legs shrank and his nose grew.
"The Americans are hiding their losses and their media is helping them so the mujahideen decided to show these images to embarrass the Americans and also to put a spotlight on their victories against the infidels," Sirry said. In the middle of that quote was momentarily distracted while his harp bent until a string gave way. He continued until he turned into a pillar of salt and could say no more.
There was no immediate comment from U.S. authorities. U.S. officials say Osama bin Ladenâs al Qaeda network or an affiliate Iraqi group, Ansar al-Islam, are behind some of the attacks that have killed 177 U.S. soldiers in just over six months. Thatâs not very many, you Reuters dorkwads.
Some Iraqi officials have suggested that loyalists of former President Saddam Hussein were providing logistical support to the Islamist militants, who they say enter Iraq from neighboring Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia.
#2
al-Reuters was proclaiming the same thing back in October 2001, about Afghanistan. I guess the jihadis consider destroying that 80grain bullet with their head a 'great victory'. I would love to see the casualty figures for the taliban and the baathists (the gitmo detainees are the lucky ones), but I don't think we will anytime soon. Notwithstanding the fact that they are all women and children (with beards and mustaches) according to the reds, but the numbers would probably be pretty breathtaking. I'm sure there are pictures of post-Arclight strikes on tora bora in USAF/AUS files of nothing but arms, legs, and other bits and pieces of what used to be the taliban. It's too gruesome to release while the WOT is still so hot.
#3
"...grainy images showed what appeared to be a U.S. military vehicle being struck by mortars, and a roadside explosion targeting what seemed to be another U.S. vehicle." I thought Al Jizeera was suposed to be a highly polished operation. What's with the grainy photo's?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 18:29 Comments ||
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#4
Why is the good stuff always so grainy?
Early pr0n, Flying Saucers, Bigfoot, Alien Disection, Early Bigfoot Pr0n, Alien Bigfoot pr0n. I mean dammit buy a Nikon and a tripod pay atttention to the light metre and go! It ain't that hard.
From a new Blog - IraqtheModel at Blogspot - EFL
If you want to know whatâs really going on, forget CNN, and all the media - read this guy, HealingIraq and the Mespotamian blogs.
So Iâll try to show you the naked truth about daily life in Iraq. And I will try to show you the difference between pre. And post. Liberation Iraq. I will put it in some form of a series, discussing one aspect of life in each post.
Letâs talk first about security and order in Iraq, as this is a major point of concern.
Some TV channels try to show our streets like battlefields, actually they are not. the streets are relatively safe and one can walk in the streets with no fear greater than the one he feels if he was in any other country. People go to work regularly, stores and restaurants are open even to a late hour in the night. crime levels in Iraq according to IP reports are declining and theyâre now much lower than they were In April or May this year.
The main point that satisfies me is that I no longer fear the risk of death penalty because of something I said. Do you imagine that someone could get tortured and executed just because he laughed at a joke about Saddam or the Baath?
Statistics from the reports of the red-cross and the IP state that approximately 1570 Iraqis were killed in violent accidents in Baghdad during the first 5 months following the liberation. Some would say, well , this is sad. This is a large number of casualties. And this is true. But if you take any 5 months during the reign of Saddam you will find that the number will reach to an average of 30 000 kills in Baghdad alone , I donât want to bother you with math.work but if someone thinks that Iâm lying then I can show you the whole calculation steps.
On the other side there are some bad aspects like traffic jams and a little mess here and there, some of my fellow citizens have not yet understood the meaning of freedom and I think they have their excuses. And as time goes on they will understand their faults and work to fixâem.
Another issue that I want to talk about is the behavior of coalition forces.
They have been accused by ill-treating Iraqis, unjustified arrests, and random shooting of fire after being assaulted- by Saddamâs mercenaries-. And I tell you again, this is not true. I have seen some of these actions and I met some American officers and inquired about the basis on which they get people arrested, and the answers were quite convincing.
Something else that I want you to consider is that there are 18 governorates in Iraq. Violence is seen in only 5 or 6 of them while the rest are quite peaceful places and one can spend a week there without hearing a gun shot.
I believe that I didnât answer all your questions, but I hope I got you closer to the truth. And the truth is : Iraq now is a safer place than itâs ever been in the last 3 decades.
The name of the blog comes from the authorâs beleif that Iraq can be the model for democracy in the ME.
Posted by: Daniel King ||
11/19/2003 12:48 Comments ||
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#2
great news, but the left and their big media friends will continue to deny or say "LIES, LIES,..."
it will have people like me who wondered about it convinced (finally) and fence sitters swayed. But the left, never, never. They have much to much invested in this.
Posted by: joe ||
11/19/2003 13:27 Comments ||
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BLITZER: Let me go -- Director Woolsey, wrap up this segment for us. There's an article in the Weekly Standard that came out, referring to a memo that Doug Feith wrote, a top Pentagon official, to the chairman and the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, suggesting that the linkage, the evidence, the intelligence evidence involving al Qaeda's relationship with Saddam Hussein, goes back more than a decade.
Are you convinced that there has been a close relationship between Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's regime throughout the '90s?
WOOLSEY: Oh, definitely. It had been all along. George Tenet wrote a year ago October to the Congress and told them that, said there'd been a relationship going back a decade. Training in -- by Iraqi intelligence of al Qaeda in, quote, "poisons, gases and explosives."
This memo expands on that. It's a different question whether Iraqi intelligence had something to do with 9/11. That is certainly arguable. It is a different issue.
But a relationship between Iraqi intelligence and al Qaeda, this memo -- and I've seen this on the Web -- puts flesh on the bones of what George Tenet wrote a year ago.
And I would say, after reading this piece in the Weekly Standard, anybody who says there is no working relationship between al Qaeda and Iraqi intelligence going back to the early '90s, they can only say that if they're illiterate. This is a slam dunk.
#4
and the left is probably saying, "think of a happy place!, think of a happy place!, Think .... (100+ times)"
Posted by: joe ||
11/19/2003 16:41 Comments ||
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#5
As we approach the election, we will probably see more of these slip out. I picture that guy Rockefeller answering the door bell only to find a burning brown lunch bag on his front porch....
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 18:55 Comments ||
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Newsday. EFL
Thousands of slogans in the Arabic script snake across acres of gray walls that line city squares, apartments and office buildings [in Baghdad], a perfect canvas for the outpourings of a population intoxicated by new freedoms. Hussein loyalists shout their yearning for the deposed dictator - "Saddam will come again" - followed by the coda on the same line from a detractor: "Through my behind!" Score one for the detractor.
"I walk around reading these writings, and some of them move me so much I donât know whether to laugh or to cry," said Amir Nayef Toma, 52, a retired radar operator in the Iraqi army. "You want to know what Iraqis are thinking? Read these walls." In a place where reliable surveys of the public mood are difficult to gauge, the writings on the walls are one way to peer into Iraqisâ minds. Hussein is naturally a lightning rod for all sides, but the other issues that preoccupy the nighttime scribblers are their daily struggles for survival, their Arab neighbors and the new men in charge of their lives. "Some are ironic, some are funny, some are artistic," said Muhir Edan, a bookseller in the Old Baghdad section of the city whose friends teasingly say he is a Colin Powell look-alike. "Even now, some are afraid to say something in the newspapers. I am still afraid," he said. "But at night, in the cover of darkness, you can write what you want." Edanâs favorites are the back-and-forth graffiti repartee: "The masses are stronger than tyrants," one slogan declared. Next to it a skeptic asked: "When? Before or after liberation by the Americans?"
Does that guy post here?
There are the occasional anti-American slogans, some in misspelled English - like "Dawn USA" - but mostly President George W. Bush is hailed as a liberator, especially in the neighborhoods of the Shia majority historically brutalized by Hussein. Samplings of the Arabic slogans include: "Down Saddam the infidel and long live Bush the believer!" "A thousand Americans but not one Tikriti," referring to residents of Husseinâs hometown. Many taunt the deposed dictator: "Saddam the dirty, the son of the dirty, in which septic tank are you hiding now?" Forward air controllers Inquiring minds want to know.
Husseinâs family also comes in for abuse: "Where are your wife and daughters, Saddam? Are you pimping them in Jordan?" Syria, more likely.
"I like what I read," said Karal Nadji, a Shia street vendor who sells shoes. "We appreciate Mr. Bush. Weâre all waiting for the fruits of change." Critics of the Iraqi Governing Council and Ahmad Chalabi, founder of the Iraqi National Congress, are frequent targets of barbed witticisms. A popular slogan comparing the politician with an Iraqi chickpea dish declares: "Neither Bush we want, nor Chalabi; we want beer and lablabee." Buy that man an adult beverage!
Posted by: Mike ||
11/19/2003 12:14:25 PM ||
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This is what the kindly dentist who runs the Healing Iraq blog has to say:
Those militants don't understand any language except the language of force. F--- human rights. Those aren't humans anyway. We desperately NEED to see some heads rolling. Believe it or not. Theres going to have to be some bloodshed for this to work. Bomb the hell out of Tikrit and Al-Awja. Massacre every last person of Saddam's tribe. ... Yeah. Let them taste some of what we have endured the last 30 years. I don't want to see my dreams ruined because of those trianglees. If the CPA doesn't want to do it, send in a force of IP and civil defense forces and turn your face the other way, they'll be more than glad to do it, believe me.
Via Silent Running. Edited.
Posted by: Matt ||
11/19/2003 12:33 Comments ||
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I think they're about to discover that the ability to mercilessly ridicule your enemy is a powerful and important weapon
From StrategyPage: Combat zones are excellent places to test new technologies, especially if these experimental items will save lives. One example is a lightweight armored turret for Humvee vehicles in Iraq. Because of its light weight construction, you cannot put a turret on a Humvee that weighs more than 400 pounds. Armor, even Kevlar fiber armor, can only provide so much protection within the 400 pound limit. But an experimental (meaning very expensive to manufacture) nanotech armor was used to construct a 200 pound armor turret that can stop 12.7mm (.50 caliber) bullets. The fiber uses nanotecholgy (where magnetism or other forces create customized molecules with special properties.) The nanofiber in the Humvee turrets looks like fiberboard, but it is 17 times stronger than Kevlar (which is itself six times stronger than steel). However, itâs going to be several years before the cost of the new fiber gets anywhere near Kevlarâs levels (about $50 per square yard of fiber). The experimental turrets are being used to see how the material stands up to field conditions (heat, cold, moisture, vibration and so on.) Most Humvees in Iraq are not getting shot at, much less hit, and the Iraqi gunners are not using any heavy machine-guns (like 12.7mm.) But itâs easier to test how bullet proof the stuff is on a rifle range, than it is to see what kind of damage day-to-day use in a combat zone will do. Interesting.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 11:31:51 AM ||
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#1
Hmmm... maybe they'll use this on a new Stryker variant - sounds semi-revolutionary.
#3
I thought the old way was to let the Israeli's test things against the Arabs Soviet equipment for us. I guess the Arabs got tired of that game, though...
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
11/19/2003 12:26 Comments ||
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HOLY SH-T! Is this a real story? Shipman, this isn't semi-revolutionary this is over the top revolutionary. I thought we were 10 years away from this if it was possible. I wonder what they're using? Couldn't be carbon nanotubes they're still about $100/gram to manufacture.... but I guess maybe mixing carbon nanotubes with some composite could supply the required strength? If this is true I'm stunned.
#5
btw, did some quick research and I think it's manufactured by US Global Nanospace.
http://www.usgn.com/
From a press release of theirs:
"S.A.G. Turret(TM) for the Humvee
The US Global S.A.G. Turret has recently been presented to U.S. troops in Afghanistan, Iraq and Italy as well as strategic domestic government agencies. Specific project information is not publicly available for discussion until approval has been given."
#7
Did some more research ;) It's based on US Global Nanospaces G-Lam fiber material. I believe it was released last year and I don't think it's based on nanotubes but instead some combination of propriety composite fibers weaved with new technique. It's designated as a nanomaterial but I'm not sure if that is because of the molecular structure of the fibers or the accuracy of their weaving technique to the less than 100 nanometer range. Don't know if you can tell but I love this stuff ;)
#8
Okay I'm in a bit of a quandary here, if my calculations are right (not that I think that they are mind you), according to this article the new armor is actually 102 times stronger than steel (i.e 17*6?) please someone correct me because that would mean that if this same armor was put on an Abrams the equivalent of steel armor would be measured in a hundred feet or so of steel.
Oh and if you think this is tough, you should look up the strength of of ring carbon, 100,000 times that of steel, not sure though if we can make more than small lab quantities of it.
Posted by: Val ||
11/19/2003 15:17 Comments ||
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#9
Hell who cares about weapons systems. The important thing is for Ferrari to have this in their monocoque first.
#11
E for typical steel is 29E6 psi.... strain (deflection) may just be really, really low, the allowable stress remains high, = much higher modulus E....sounds likely
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 18:43 Comments ||
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#12
I think that Val is pointing out that whatever punched through the Abrams the other day may have met it's nano-match. Here's to hoping.
Bulldog, the USN used to have a very prolonged process for qualifying and testing firefighting equipment. Then Sadaam pumped two Exocets into the USS Stark. When that happened, the Navy realized that there was a lot of equipment available to regular firefighters that could have saved lives on the Stark if the equip[ment wasn't wollowing in the approval process.
The Navy fastracked a bunch of stuff that luckily was aboard the USS Roberts when it hit a mine. The new gear kept the ship afloat and saved lives.
Both the Stark and Roberts were relatively new ships at the time of their fires. At the time the navy was trying to milk a group of destroyers that had been built for the Cuban missile crisis. The idea was to keep them in service until they could be replaced by the new Aegis class.
Luckily the new gear was on these ships as well as they had exceeded their safe service life and began to catch fire in rapid sucession. The USS Connyniham was one. I toured her ship after their fire as our operating budgets were being cut in half each year - the Clinton years.
I was there scavenging for the new gear because I was the Damage Control Assistant for the USS Dahlgren the next ship to catch fire. The gear did a good job for us as well.
At that juncture they pulled that entire class of destroyer out of service immediately.
With respect to Iraq I think quite a bit of the medical gear has been fast-tracked.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 19:26 Comments ||
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Gunmen assassinated a provincial Iraqi official in the southern town of Diwaniyah, authorities said Wednesday, while some Baghdad residents complained of punitive U.S. raids against suspected rebel hideouts.
An Arabic language newspaper, meanwhile, published a statement signed by Saddam Husseinâs outlawed Baath Party declaring that armed resistance would continue despite plans by the U.S.-led coalition and chief administrator L. Paul Bremer to accelerate the transfer of power to Iraqis. The statement, which appeared Wednesday in the Web edition of the London-based newspaper Al-Hayat, said the new U.S. timetable for handing over sovereignty "will not influence the nature of the confrontation and its course set forth by the Iraqi resistance". "Those who occupy Iraq, be it through multinational forces under whatever arrangements, will be treated as occupiers that should be legal targets for resistance," the statement said.
A spokesman for the Education Ministry in the capital said Hmud Kadhim, the ministryâs director general in Diwaniyah province, 100 miles south of Baghdad, was shot to death by unknown assailants on Tuesday. An investigation was under way, the spokesman said. Guerrillas have warned that they will assassinate Iraqis who collaborate with occupation authorities, including officials like Kadhim whose job made him one of the top officials in Diwaniyah province.
Police said Wednesday that two policemen were wounded the day before when assailants tossed a grenade at a police station in the northern city of Mosul. Also Wednesday, a roadside bomb went off in the southern city of Basra as a British civilian convoy was passing by, damaging a vehicle, British spokesman Maj. Hisham Halawi said.
On Tuesday night, U.S. forces again targeted an abandoned dye factory in southern Baghdad that was hit twice last week by artillery and air strikes. Aerial attacks also were reported on orchards and empty farmland surrounding the military base on Baghdadâs western outskirts. The military said the continuing attacks were part of Operation Iron Hammer, the new aggressive tactic of initiating attacks against insurgents before they strike.
In recent days, U.S. forces have used heavy artillery, battle tanks, attack helicopters, F-16 fighter-bombers and AC-130 gunships to pound targets throughout central Iraq, including Tikrit, Baqouba and Fallujah. The show of force came in response to an upsurge in guerrilla activity and a significant increase in the number of coalition casualties since the start of this month. But residents expressed bewilderment at the choice of targets in territory fully controlled by coalition forces, and said there was no sign of any guerrilla activity in the area prior to the strikes.
"They (the Americans) called on us from the tanks to stay at home because they were going to hit targets and they also said: âIf you want to watch our show you can go to the rooftops,â" Hamziya Ali, a housewife living near the plant, said Wednesday. "But me and my children spent the night shaking. We do not want to be their targets," she said. "Yesterday, they hit the factory and open fields which have not been used by any resistance members." Still, a top U.S. commander insisted that coalition forces would continue "to use force, overwhelming combat power when itâs necessary." "We are going to take the fight to the enemy using everything in our arsenal necessary to win this fight," Maj. Gen. Charles H. Swannack Jr. said Tuesday.
In Saddamâs hometown of Tikrit, huge explosions were heard from the edge of town late Tuesday as U.S. troops fired mortars on areas allegedly used by insurgents to launch mortar and rocket attacks against coalition forces. Targets included an abandoned bunker that was part of Saddamâs former military defenses south of the town and a farming area to the north. Officers said the targeted areas were uninhabited and the attacks were meant to intimidate anyone planning strikes against the coalition.
Swannack, whose troops patrol such hotspots as Fallujah, Ramadi and the borders with Syria and Saudi Arabia, said he believes most of the insurgents are Iraqis loyal to Saddam. "Ninety percent of the cases are from regime loyalists and (Iraqi) Wahhabis," he said. Wahhabis are members of a puritanical Islamic sect that dominates Saudi Arabia and has followers in Iraq. "We are not fighting foreign fighters coming across the border in significant numbers," Swannack said. "We are fighting mostly former regime locals." He said 13 foreign fighters were recently captured in Anbar Province, and seven were killed. He did not have their nationalities. Swannack said the decrease in foreign fighters crossing from Syria was due to a heavier U.S. troop deployment along the borders. He said the number of American troops in Anbar Province had increased threefold to 20,000 in the past two months.
Al-Hayat, the London-based newspaper, said it received the Baath Party statement by e-mail. The statement said the Iraqi resistance, which the party claimed it is spearheading, had already undermined the U.S.-led occupation. The statement said the resistance is being mounted by former members of Saddamâs Republican Guard, Special Republican Guard, Saddamâs Fedayeen militia and "noble Arab volunteers." "The political and strategic program of the Iraqi resistance, led by the Arab Baath Socialist Party, has defined its aim ... to liberate Iraq and dismiss the occupying forces," the statement said.
Posted by: Jarhead ||
11/19/2003 11:11:51 AM ||
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correction - the official in question was not a member of the IGC, IIUC,
The purported new military chief of a Southeast Asian terror group is among a handful of Indonesians in direct contact with al-Qaida and is now considered the most lethal terrorist in Asia, plotting fresh attacks in the region. Known as Zulkarnaen, the highest ranking Jemaah Islamiyah leader still on the loose is believed to head an elite squad that helped carry out a suicide bombing at a Jakarta hotel that killed 12 people, in addition to helping prepare bombs that killed 202 people in Bali. Zulkarnaen held a meeting last March on the tiny island of Sebatik with two other senior militants to plot upcoming attacks against Western hotels and banks in Indonesia, a senior intelligence adviser said. "Heâs considered to be the most dangerous guy thatâs out there," said terrorism expert Ken Conboy, who runs Risk Management Advisory, a Jakarta-based security consultancy, and has written several books on Indonesia. "Not only did he excel on the demolition side but he also has a proven ability on the leadership side. I guess heâs got a spark of charisma." Zulkarnaen, whose real name is Aris Sumarsono, is called Daud by fellow militants and is thought to be hiding in Indonesia.
"Now, you can call me Bob, or you can call me Robert, or you can call me Rob, or you can call me Daud..."
He became operations chief for Jemaah Islamiyah several weeks after the August arrest in Thailand of his alleged predecessor, Riduan Isamuddin, also known as Hambali, U.S. and Indonesian officials said. Heâs now among al-Qaidaâs pointmen in Southeast Asia and is one of the few people in Indonesia who have direct contact with Osama bin Ladenâs terror network. The International Crisis Group think tank recently issued a report also listing Zulkarnaen as having direct contact with al-Qaidaâs leadership. Zulkarnaen studied biology at an Indonesian university. In the 1980s, he was among the first Indonesian militants to go to Afghanistan, where bin Laden operated, for training â becoming an expert in sabotage.
How'd the Sovs manage to miss all these short southeast Asian guys running around Pashtunistan?
Officials said Zulkarnaen now leads a squad of militants called Laskar Khos, or special force, whose members were recruited from some 300 Indonesians who trained in Afghanistan and the Philippines. Asmar Latin Sani, an alleged bomber whose severed head was found in the wreckage of the Marriott Hotel blast in Jakarta in August, was believed to have been a Laskar Khos militant working for Zulkarnaen. Thought to be about 40 years old, Zulkarnaen is described by those who know him as a small man of few words, slightly built and thin. Before he became a fugitive, he refused to be photographed and often kept his head down at public meetings, said Mahendradatta, the leader of a group of Muslim attorneys who are defending suspects in the 2002 Bali blasts. Zulkarnaenâs veiled 32-year-old wife, Rahayuningtyas, described her husband in a February interview with the Surya daily as a simple textile merchant whom she hadnât seen or spoken to since December 2002. "You need to know that my husband is a quiet man. Even at home, he is just calm. If we donât ask, he never talks," she was quoted as saying.
"He was a quiet boy..."
Zulkarnaenâs quiet demeanor belies a ferocious commitment to radical Islam and a determination to wage violent jihad to replace Indonesiaâs secular government with an Islamic one. Zulkarnaen and others have hatched plans to bomb a tourist hotel between December and January and a U.S. bank in February or March. Indonesiaâs police chief, Gen. Dai Bachtiar, said last week that handwritten notes found in a rented room used by another top Jemaah Islamiyah fugitive, Malaysian Azahari bin Husin, revealed plans for a bombing in February. Azahari, a British-trained engineer and former university lecturer, and another Malaysian, alleged bombmaker Noordin Mohammed Top, narrowly escaped a police dragnet in the West Javanese city of Bandung on Oct. 31 and are the target of a manhunt in Indonesia. But Zulkarnaen is a bigger fish than either of them, and his nondescript looks and Javanese ethnicity should make it easier for him to hide. "He can be everything and anything â a waiter, a beggar," said Mahendradatta. "Itâll be difficult to catch him."
Look for the false nose and moustache. And the dyed hair. That'll go over big in Indonesia...
Zulkarnaen was a protege of Abdullah Sungkar, founder of Jemaah Islamiyah and the Islamic boarding school al-Mukmin, where Zulkarnaen and other senior militants studied. Before Sungkarâs 1999 death, Zulkarnaen was often seen by his mentorâs side, organizing conferences and helping arrange the agenda of the elder radical. In the mid-1980s, Sungkar sent a small group of Indonesians to Afghanistan to train in a camp led by mujahedin commander Abdul Rasul Sayyaf.
Rasool was the Soddies inside man in the Northern Alliance. He was the other end they were playing against the middle...
According to the International Crisis Group, Sungkar was "highly selective" about who to send in the first group, choosing top students like Zulkarnaen who could translate the training materials and later become instructors themselves. According to the Crisis Group report, Zulkarnaen was a "particular protege" of camp instructor Muhammad Sauwki al-Istambuli, an Egyptian whose rigorous instruction caused "even the toughest among the Indonesian mujahedin" to faint and vomit. Zulkarnaen became a key player in Jemaah Islamiyahâs training and recruitment, officials say, at one point sending militants to Camp Hudaibiyah in the southern Philippines and running an Islamic boot camp boarding school in Malaysia for a year. Officials say he also helped organize fighting against Christians in the Maluku islands in the 1990s, in addition to organizing a meeting among militants who trained in Afghanistan at different times, enabling them to join forces.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/19/2003 9:18:44 AM ||
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"Now, you can call me Bob, or you can call me Robert, or you can call me Rob, or you can call me Daud..."
Let's just call him "dead", and be accurate - that works for me.
Follow-up on something that was written yesterday: it would be totally against WESTERN standards, but we might encourage one of these nations in southeast Asia to grab up a bunch of these known Islamic militants, and drop them live into a huge cauldron of boiling pig lard. Televise it nationally, to make sure everyone knows it happened, and that it's real. Don't say a word during the entire telecast. At the end, flash a video panning over the daily crowd in Jakarta, Singapore, Manila, or any other large city (or several). Let the pictures say it all.Recruitment for Islamic insurgency would show a drastic drop afterwards.
We have to learn that we cannot fight these people using Western sensibilities and win. Let's cut to the basics, and let them know that we have the will to do whatever is necessary to live free of their terror.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 14:59 Comments ||
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EFL:
A US Navy frigate dropped anchor at Vietnamâs biggest city yesterday, the first American warship to visit the country since the end of their bloody conflict nearly 30 years ago. The USS Vandegrift had sailed up the Saigon River from Vung Tau watched by a small crowd of curious onlookers — including Vietnamese veterans of a war they say they want to forget. The frigate was escorted from Vung Tau, about 120 kilometres south-east of Ho Chi Minh City, by two Vietnamese navy vessels. Ho Chi Minh City, formally Saigon received the ship, a vessel of the Oliver Hazard Perry class, quietly. Spectator Duong Tam, 62, said he had fought on the side of the losing, US-backed South Vietnam army but still considered Americans his friends. "Now there is no problem between the American and Vietnamese people," he said. Few of Ho Chi Minh Cityâs 8 million residents seemed to be aware of the shipâs visit. The 200 American sailors on board are expected to be granted shore leave before the ship departs on Saturday. But with no welcome banners or posters in sight, hotels that were popular with US troops during the 10-year war that ended in 1975 - the Rex, Caravelle and Continental - seemed to display little awareness of the visit. However, some things never change....
Several women beckoning tourists into bars on Dong Koi Street on Tuesday night said they had heard of the shipâs arrival. "Really, really good," said one of the bar women. "Hello, GI. You buy me drink? Me love you long time."
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 8:51:49 AM ||
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#1
Didn't realize Saigon could take ships of this size. Thought the river was too shallow.
#2
From the Vietnam Tourism Bureau's website:
The Port of Saigon, established in 1862, is accessible to ships weighing up to 30,000 tons, a rare advantage for an inland river port.
Vendegrift is a Perry-class frigate that only displaces 4100 tons, so it's got *lots* of room to maneuver. Not a happy place to drive an LHD, of course (42,000 tons)...
#3
Spectator Duong Tam, 62, said he had fought on the side of the losing, US-backed South Vietnam army but still considered Americans his friends. "Now there is no problem between the American and Vietnamese people," he said.
#6
Usually what would stop an Ocean going ship from going up a river would be the draft. River going vessels don't need much of a keel for stability in wind and swells.
The river must be regularly dredged. Navy ships don't always displace a whole lot but the sonar dome on the front tends to make their navigational draft rather deep.
Fresh water alos does some odd things to the process of distilling freshwater using evaporators. It also screws with the cathodic system that protects the hull from corrosion.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 19:41 Comments ||
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Chinese? Wag âem and whack âem. Itâs all out to fish for Malay votes, ainât it? It is pre-election time in Muslim dominated Malaysia.
If PAS is viewed as using the Islamic State Document to wag its tails at wooing non-Muslim voters, you are wrong. PAS is an Islamofascist political party, which holds two provinces in Malaysia, and is campaigning on an "Islamic State" platform (see party program in link).
If Umno, and the think-tanks and Malay newspapers parented to the party, are viewed as benign protectors of non-Malay interests, you are equally wrong. They are evidently trying to outdo each other, manipulating the Islamic psyche, to net the voters that count - The Malaysâ. "Pandering" is the word. Utusan Malaysia, the barometer of Umno thinking, has started an old spin today. It takes the form of a news analysis — a frontpage lead — by Mowardi Mahmud: Chinese 3 times richer (than Malays). Yes, the ethnic Chinese (and ethnic Hindus) are much richer than the other-worldly oriented, Malays, because they are not bound by Islamic Riba (interest) haram sandbags. Islam promotes submission to the injunctions of Allah, and restrains personal industry. The Chinese and Hindus stepped into the breach.
My breakfast partners say itâs Umno counterforce to PASâ proposal to withdraw the affirmative action favouring the Malays "when they no longer need it"... Chinese-Malaysians, who form the second largest ethnic component in Malaysia - some 27% - throughout the entire first-half of the Eighth Malaysia Plan (RMK-8), control RM157 billion shares capital while the bumiputra only possess RM73 billion while they constitutes 58% of the national population. Donât let those numbers shock you into sympathy for nominally disadvantaged Malays. There is a similar statistical anomaly in Indonesia. In spite of the extermination of 500,000 of their members during the genocide of 1965-67, ethnic Chinese control 60% of the Indonesian economy, while they form less than 6% of the population.
From the RM73 billion, the first Mid-Term review of RMK-8 indicates that, in 2002, a total of RM55.1 billion are owned by bumiputra individuals, RM11.6 billion owned via governmental institutions, and RM6.4 billion owned via holdings by trust agencies. It is noted that the governmental agencies referred to, which hold the bumiputra shares. include Permodalan Nasional Bhd. and other state economic development corporations. The "bumiputra" (ethnic Malay Muslims) benefit from a government "affirmative action" programs, which recently caused Dr. Moonbat to cancel multi-billion dollar railway development deals with Indian and Chinese firms. That is: the self-imposed economic backwardness would be worse without the leaching of minority taxpayers to the benefit of mullah ridden Malays.
Utusan suggests that it may be about time to take stock of the status of the bumiputra today if there wasnât assistance from the government. This is the reality which should be looked into seriously, says the influential paper. Yep! Playing the race card.
With the Chinese overwhelming the Malays 3:1 in shares capital, the paper says, it has placed the bumiputra on the farther end of the economy divide. It also clearly shows the cake-size of the national economy that the bumiputra get to share. As a free-enterpriser, it is my experience that most successful people worked hard for their wealth, and took risks. We have to take note of Malay finger-pointing, because Dr Moonbatâs so-called "economic miracle" is being peddled as a model of Islamic success. It is not. Dr. Evil rode the other "Asian Tigers." There are already brewings of a trade war with China and India. Malays will get a slice of humble pie.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler ||
11/19/2003 2:28:26 AM ||
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#1
Thomas Sowell mentioned in one of his books how the colonial (Brits) administrators preferred to hire the Chinese because they worked about twice as hard as the natives.Not much has changed,apparently.
Posted by: El Id ||
11/19/2003 2:39 Comments ||
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#2
The brits didn't like to hire the chinese because the viewed them as poor civil servants, primarily because they suspected their loyalties. They much preferred the malays and indians.
#3
I believe they did prefer the Chinese for non-administrative "real" jobs,such as construction etc.Work ethic has never been crucial for bureucrats,after all.I may be wrong,of course.Anyone know better?
Posted by: El Id ||
11/19/2003 8:53 Comments ||
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#4
I don't know about Civil Servants, but in Indonesia, the Chinese are the disliked because they own most of the shops and businesses. It's not much different than what you see in LA where there are (in a way) similar conflicts.
Look at him, he has all that stuff, and I can't afford more than a pack of cigarettes. Same ol' story be it Jews, Americans or Chinese or whatever. If you own the stores, you automatically become The Man(TM) that the have-nots rage against.
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 12:14 Comments ||
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A Muslim militant convicted of organising attacks on Jakarta nightclubs and restaurants was released from jail today, and vowed to carry on his campaign to rid the Indonesian capital of vice. About 300 cheering supporters greeted Habib Rizieq Shihab, who heads the small, but high-profile Islamic Defenders Front, as he left Salemba Prison in Jakarta. Rizieq, who served a seven-month jail term, told the crowd that he would keep fighting to impose Islamic law in the country and rid the capital of nightclubs, discos and gambling dens. "I will continue my attacks on corrupt officials who give protection to these places of sin like nightclubs and gambling dens," Rizieq said, stopping short of saying he would directly attack these establishments. Rizieq was sentenced in August, but because he had spent four months in custody, judges ruled that he would be released in November. His group is generally dismissed as a criminal gang involved in protection rackets and extortion.
Yasss... Very devout, they are...
It is not connected to the regionâs Jemaah Islamiah terrorist network. The organisation gained notoriety in the past four years for sweeps through the capitalâs nightclub districts, breaking windows and smashing liquor bottles. The damage was limited and injuries were few. Although it warned of renewed attacks during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, so far the group has done nothing.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
11/19/2003 12:24:37 AM ||
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#1
"I will continue my attacks..." Unless you buy me off, that is.
#2
Do not mock poor Rizieq! He was abused by a mirror ball as a small child, and he's had a thing for torching nightclubs ever since. He's the victim here.
Posted by: Dar ||
11/19/2003 9:33 Comments ||
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#3
Mirror ball must have been Catholic.
Posted by: Charles ||
11/19/2003 10:51 Comments ||
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#4
A Muslim militant convicted of organising attacks on Jakarta nightclubs and restaurants was released from jail today, and vowed to carry on his campaign to rid the Indonesian capital of vice.
Can someone point this out to the Israeli leadership the next time they decide on some kind of terrorist prisoner "release"?
#5
Wonder how long it'll be before he's found floating face down in a sewer, with a new mouth just below his chin, courtesy of the Indonesian version of the Mafia?
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 15:55 Comments ||
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#6
"He hates these Disco Balls!!! Stay away from the Disco Balls!!!..."
Nadirskhaykh Khachilayev car was approaching his home in Makhachkala when a passing Lada motorcar opened fire with machine-guns, killing the 44-year-old leader of the Lak community. Police claimed their investigation led to three unidentified Chechen suspects after finding a burnt-out Lada on the outskirts of Makhachkala. While it is possible the Lak leader was the victim of a political assassination, he may have been the victim of a blood feud, arising after the deaths of several ethnic Dargin policemen in the 1998 Islamist assault on Parliament.
Dire Revengeâ¢, one way or the other...
The Khachilayev brothers seized on ethnic politics to build their political base during the years of uncertainty following the demise of the Soviet Union, providing the muscle for the Lak communityâs Tsubarz movement. Using the revenues of their criminal activities, the Khachilayevs armed and equipped the Lak national movement during the Novalakskii dispute. The land belonging to Akkin Chechens, deported from Dagestanâs Aukhovskii rayon in 1944 had been given to Laks and Avars, and the area renamed Novolakskii rayon. The resettled Laks became the victims of a 1991 Russian policy to resettle internally exiled peoples, including the Akkin Chechens. Following a brief armed confrontation, the Khachilayevs proposed a compromise that was accepted by all parties. The settlement served to propel the Khachilayevs to the leadership of the Lak movement.
The Laks are an indigenous Caucasus group, believing themselves to be descended from an eighth century Syrian Arab governor of Dagestan. They were the first group in the area to convert to Islam after the conquest of Abu Maslama in 733. This early conversion may be only legendary, but by the 15th century the Laks were spreading Islam throughout Dagestan, becoming known as Ghazi-Ghumuqs, âwarriors for Islamâ. The Lak are one of 14 ethnic groups receiving equal representation in the Daghestan State Council. In 1994 the Dargin group succeeded in having their nominee, Magomedali Magomedov, appointed to the post of Chairman of the State Council. Charges of corruption and ethnic favoritism began almost immediately. Ironically, some of the strongest charges came from the leaders of Dagestanâs powerful ethnic mafias, including the Khachilayev brothers. Publicly, Khachilayev posed as a corruption-fighter, and had embarrassed the government in recent years by collecting incriminating documents. When nothing came of his campaign, he declared himself retired from politics. After his acquittal on charges of illegal arms possession in March 2002, Khachilayev re-entered politics, alleging government responsibility for 35 unsolved political murders.
IMPLICATIONS: After 1991, Lak resentment of Avar and Dargin domination of official Islamic structures increased. Khachilayev was instrumental in arranging the 1996 peace negotiations that ended the first Chechen conflict, one of many times in which the Khachilayevs were used as mediators by Moscow. Following the war, Khachilayev established contacts with figures like Muammar Khadafi, Saddam Hussein and Louis Farrakhan while calling for an Islamic state in Dagestan. Beginning in 1998, there were attempts to establish autonomous âWahhabiâ enclaves governed by shariâa . Dagestan relies overwhelmingly on federal subsidies from Moscow that would be endangered by any local separatist movement. The radicals of the Jamaat al-Islamiyun al-Daghestani led by Bagauddin Kebedov were opposed not only by traditional Sufis, but also by elements of the Dagestani mafia, who had suffered from local Wahhabi anti-crime campaigns. The Jamaat declared jihad against Daghestani authorities in 1998. Though there were reports Khachilayev was actively involved in fighting on the Wahhabi side during the 1999 incursion by al-Khattab and Shamir Basayev, he vigorously denied them. Criminal charges of armed insurrection were eventually dropped for lack of evidence, but there were reports that Basayev sentenced Khachilayev to death for failing to rally Daghestani Muslims to their cause. It is unlikely, however, that Basayev now has the time to indulge himself in assassinations that have no effect on the Chechen conflict.
CONCLUSIONS: In an interview done shortly before his death, Khachilayev was in a pessimistic mood regarding the future of Islam in Dagestan: âThe people are not ready yet to accept a Shariâa state, they are afraid of the word âShariâaâ, they think that it is something very harsh and scary.â Though Khachilayevâs political influence had waned greatly, he was reported to be contemplating another run at the State Duma despite warnings not to do so. Khachilayev himself often said that Russian security forces were preparing to kill him. Chechen rebel sources report that the Russian-backed Chechen national guard leader Sulim Yamadayev fulfilled a four year old contract on Khachilayevâs life, in an attempt to instigate fighting between Laks and Chechens in the still volatile Novalak rayon. Lak leaders have already promised revenge for Khachilayevâs death, ensuring Dagestanâs cycle of political murder will continue.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
11/19/2003 23:08 ||
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From Geostrategy-Direct.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that the North Korean military had lowered its recruit standards as a result of dire economic conditions in the country. Recruits with multiple stomachs are a plus for the high fiber diet.
Speaking to U.S. troops at Andersen Air Force base in Guam last week, Rumsfeld said the 1-million troop North Korean military recently changed the height and weight requirements for new recruits to 4 feet, 10 inches. Weight requirements were also lowered. The changes are a sign that the North Korean military has problems resulting from the bad economic policies of Kim Jong-Il.
It was the first time the defense secretary had commented on problems in the North Korean military, which he said poses a danger to South Korea and the world.
Rumsfeld said North Korea has large conventional forces, a very large special forces commando corps and ballistic missiles of varying range. Additionally, the military has deadly nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.
Threatening statements by North Korean leaders appear to be a mixture of truth and bluster, he said. Some of the statements have been verified but others have not, Rumsfeld said.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/19/2003 9:08:54 PM ||
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The recruits may grow some after basic. Food will do that to you.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 21:56 Comments ||
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those unable/too weak to lift an AK will be allowed to shoot from the prone position. Those too weak to pull the trigger will be eaten
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 22:12 Comments ||
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From Geostrategy-Direct.com
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has brought on a Chinese government official to advise him on oil-related issues, according to U.S. sources. Hugo is keeping company now with ME types, Cubans, and ChiComs. I hope that we are not sitting idly by.
The adviser has raised new concerns that Beijing is making inroads into Venezuelaâs leftist government.
Venezuela is a major supplier of U.S. oil and there are fears that the Chinese adviser could influence Chavez to move further in an anti-American direction.
China announced in May 2001 that it had formed a "strategic partnership" with the Chavez government. That is certainly reassuring.
Venezuela exports some 2.5 million barrels of oil a day. This is about 10% more than the maximum rate pumped down the pipeline from Alaskaâs North Slope, which is down to 1.2 MBD. Sure could use ANWR oil now to boost domestic flow.
With growing instability in Saudi Arabia and with Iraq behind schedule in rebuilding its oil resources, U.S. officials are concerned that China could use its influence in Venezuela to cut off oil shipments to the U.S. if there were a conflict in the Taiwan Strait.
Chavez has supplied small arms to Colombiaâs FARC terrorists and has aligned his government with Fidel Castroâs Cuba, U.S. intelligence officials said.
Cuban intelligence personnel have been assigned to posts in key Venezuelan ministries. Chavez also is backing anti-government rebels in Bolivia. There have been reports recently of high level military contacts between the ChiComs and Fidel Castroâs regime.
Gen. James T. Hill, head of the U.S. Southern Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that he is concerned about Chavezâs crackdown following a two-month strike. Chavezâs "actions may portend a move toward greater authoritarianism. In my mind, that bears watching very carefully. I have directed my people to do that," Hill said. We better get our oil supply revamped. Our butts are hanging out with Saudi Arabia and Venezuela.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/19/2003 8:35:39 PM ||
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That really wouldn't mean a damn thing ... IF Carter hadn't handed the Panama Canal, selling out his country in the process.
The Panamanians, of course, subsequently turned over management to ... THE CHINESE.
#2
Anon---That's right on! Bill Gertz wrote a book a couple of years ago called The China Threat, where he discussed the port management contracts at both ends of the Panama Canal going to ChiCom front companies. Bill presents a very chilling scenario concerning bringing in nuclear weapon-tipped missles in containers and using them for blackmail if they decide on a showdown with Taiwan. The question then would be if the US would back Taiwan with the threat of nuclear attack on US cities hanging over our heads. The Chinese are looking long range and with Panama, Venezuela, and Cuba, and other SA or CA countries, they are making their long range moves. This is like the world's biggest game of the Japanese game of Go, but they are playing for keeps.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/19/2003 22:44 Comments ||
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SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - A domestic terrorist peace activist pleaded guilty Wednesday to tampering with high-voltage power line towers in what he has said was an effort to draw attention to lax security for the nationâs energy infrastructure. Michael Devlyn Poulin, 62, of Spokane, Wash., had admitted damaging or attempting to damage more than 20 towers last month in California, Idaho, Oregon and Washington. Bolts were loosened or removed from the legs of the steel towers. Yes, trying to cut power to millions of people by destroying the towers is surely a peaceful way to protest the war
Poulin told The Associated Press in a telephone interview before his arrest that he considered his actions necessary to point out how the nationâs power system is vulnerable to terrorists. "Come see the violence inherent in the system! LOOK! LOOK! IâM BEING OPPRESSED!"
Poulin says he was preparing to turn himself in when he was arrested Nov. 2 by a California Highway Patrol officer. I bet 1 more protesting old hippie could have made all the difference in London
Poulin has been a member of Peace and Justice Action League of Spokane and participated in several anti-war rallies this year. Can they all be charged with conspiracy, I wonder?
He served eight years of a life sentence for attempted murder in the 1970s, the FBI said. So, heâs planning to move up in weight class by causing dozens or hundreds of deaths with this little prank, eh?
#1
"Poulin has been a member of Peace and Justice Action League of Spokane and participated in several anti-war rallies this year."
Aquaman was unavailable for comment, but a spokeswoman for The Flash said, "We deplore the use of violence for political purposes. Unless, of course, it takes place high above Gotham and all participants wear tights."
#2
Michael is real lucky he didn't cut the wires while I was surfing for porn! I would have hunted him down myself! LOL! Where do they grow these people?
(2003-11-17) -- John Allen Muhammad, convicted today of murder in the 2002 D.C.-area shooting spree, will receive the death penalty "to be administered by a firing squad at some unspecified time in the future."
After sentencing, Mr. Muhammad was released from custody, given a car, $20 in cash and instructions to stop at a local gas station on his way home.
The four-man firing squad carrying high-powered rifles left the courthouse shortly after Mr. Muhammad and appeared to be following his car.
EFL - hereâs a summary of the reportâs conclusions for those who donât want to wade through the whole report.
The nationâs worst blackout began with three power line failures in Ohio and should have been contained by operators at FirstEnergy Corp. (FE), a three-month government investigation concluded Wednesday. The report by a U.S.-Canadian task force said the FirstEnergy operators did not respond properly, allowing the Aug. 14 outage to cascade, eventually cutting off electricity to 50 million people in eight states and Canada. The task force also cited outdated procedures and shortcomings at a regional grid monitoring center in Indiana that kept officials there from grasping the emerging danger and helping FirstEnergy deal with it. "This blackout was largely preventable," Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham said. The task force said it found "no computer viruses or any sort of illicit cyber activities" to blame. It also concluded that there was no deliberate damage or tampering with equipment associated with the outage. Wonder how long it will be until lawsuits start flying?
#3
Now the lawsuits will begin. Glad that I get power from AEP. I think First Energy customers are going to see a rate increase right after the vultures trial lawyers have at the road kill.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 18:32 Comments ||
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The US - Canada task force investigating the massive blackout of August 14th has issued an interim report. The report is 134 pages long and begins with a good overview of the grid and current operational approaches, including the various agencies and companies involved.
Money quote:
The SWG (Security Working Group) acknowledges reports of al-Qaeda claims of responsibility for the August 14, 2003 blackout; however, those reports are not consistent with the SWGâs findings to date. There is also no evidence, nor is there any indication suggesting, that viruses and worms prevalent across the Internet at the time of the outage had any significant impact on power generation and delivery systems. SWG analysis to date has brought to light certain concerns with respect to: the possible failure of alarm software; links to control and data acquisition software; and the lack of a system or process for some operators to view adequately the status of electric systems outside their immediate control.
Market analysts refer to it as a "mercy killing."
After years of government deregulation of energy markets, telecommunications, the airlines and other major industries, Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean is proposing a significant reversal: a comprehensive "re-regulation" of U.S. businesses. I think I know where the pro-business contributions are going.
The former Vermont governor said he would reverse the trend toward deregulation pursued by recent presidents — including, in some respects, Bill Clinton — to help restore faith in scandal-plagued U.S. corporations and better protect U.S. workers. In an interview around midnight Monday on his campaign plane with a small group of reporters, Dean listed likely targets for what he dubbed as his "re-regulation" campaign: utilities, large media companies and any business that offers stock options. Dean did not rule out "re-regulating" the telecommunications industry, too. Wonder if that will be enough to get WaPo, CNN and the NYT to come out against him. Screwing around with our security is okay, but donât mess with their broadcasting rules and stock options!
He also said a Dean administration would require new workersâ standards, a much broader right to unionize and new "transparency" requirements for corporations that go beyond the recently enacted Sarbanes-Oxley law. "In order to make capitalism work for ordinary human beings, you have to have regulation," Dean said. "Right now, workers are getting screwed." "When weâre done it will all be equal — everyone will be getting screwed!"
In a speech here Tuesday night, one mile from the Enron Corp. headquarters, Dean sought to place this idea into a new and broader campaign context: a "new social contract for the 21st century" to restore public trust in corporations, national leaders and U.S. military might. Dean blamed President Bush for eroding the publicâs faith in these institutions with his policies over the past three years. "At Enron, those at the top enriched themselves by deceiving everyone else and robbing ordinary people of the future theyâd earned," Dean said. "The Bush administration is following their lead." Thus labeling Bush a robber and liar. Typical Democrat, Iâd say.
Dean has excited core Democratic voters with a relentless assault on common sense corporations and the rich, and he is moving quickly to stake a position as the candidate with the goofiest boldest plans for tempering the influence and power of U.S. businesses. If the economy continues to rebound, Democratic strategists say, Deanâs proposal will go over like a ringing cell phone at a Barbara Striesand concert may offer a way for the party to frame the debate over jobs, income and fairness. Dean said in the interview that "re-regulation" is a key tool for socializing the economy restoring trust. In doing so, he drew a sharp distinction with Bush, an outspoken advocate of free markets who wants to further deregulate media companies and other key sectors of the economy. Dean also continued his clear break from Clintonâs "New Democrat" philosophy of trying to appease both business and workers with centrist policies. Earlier in the campaign, Dean reversed his prior support for Clintonâs free-trade agreements with Mexico, Canada and China. At least he correctly labeled Clintonâs character.
Many Republicans typically and correctly characterize looser rules and mandates on business and trade as key facilitators of economic growth. While Bush eventually backed new regulations for, among others, the accounting industry in the wake of the Enron, WorldCom and other corporate scandals, his administration has slightly rolled back environmental and workplace regulations many Democrats want restored. Bush is fighting some in his own party to loosen the rules for media ownership. "I certainly would reverse media deregulation," Dean said. "I would go back to the limitations on how many stations you can own in a given market." Yeah, back to the days when UHF stations broadcast re-runs of crappy sit-coms and old movies!
Virtually all Democratic candidates are making the fight against corporate influence a centerpiece of their flailing campaign. The latest example: Every Democratic presidential candidate save Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (Conn.) has come out strongly in opposition to the GOP deals on energy and Medicare, and has criticized them as gifts to big Republican corporate campaign contributors. Yet, Dean appears to getting the most traction on this front from the Democratic Underground. The Dean Campaign: in relentless search of the left 15% of the vote.
Dean, who talked at length about the historical ebb and flow of regulation, said there is a "danger" to pushing his re-regulation movement too far. But under Bush, "deregulation has increased the corporate power enormously," he said. As governor of Vermont, Dean advocated deregulation, angering some environmentalists. But the events of the past two years have convinced him deregulation is to blame for many of the nationâs problems. "California is proving it does not work," he said. "I think the reason the grid failed is because of utility deregulation." And a stoopid governor, donât forget that.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2003 2:12:45 PM ||
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"At Enron, those at the top enriched themselves by deceiving everyone else and robbing ordinary people of the future theyâd earned"
#2
He's insane. There's no other way to put it. I'd sooner elect a rabid dog next November than Howard Dean.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
11/19/2003 14:43 Comments ||
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#3
"As governor of Vermont, Dean advocated deregulation, angering some environmentalists. But the events of the past two years have convinced him deregulation is to blame for many of the nationâs problems."
This joker is trying to have it both ways -- running on his record in Vermont (fiscal discipline, pro-business, etc.) while at the same time changing positions on things relevant to that Vermont record (regulation, Medicare reform, etc.). It may work in the Democrap primaries, but will not work in the general election.
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/19/2003 15:04 Comments ||
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#4
It's hard to comment on such an idiotically simplistic view of a complicated set of issues, but I'd suggest that Dean start out by reading the Code of Federal Regulations from start to finish, and then tell us whether he thinks more federal regulations are required. It'll be 2006 by then anyway.
Posted by: Matt ||
11/19/2003 15:21 Comments ||
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#5
Dean reminds me of someone, can't remember who, from history. Always playing to the audience, with no real understanding of the costs/benefits of what he was talking about, and no idea of the unintended consequences of what appears to be a 'noble' idea. IIRC, that idiot got pretty well squashed, too, but it took awhile...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 15:25 Comments ||
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#6
Who is Dean preaching too? He's already got the wacko-left vote locked up. Perhaps he's afraid Nader is going to be nipping at his heals or more likely he doesn't really want to win the Democratic Nomination and get trounced in 2004.
#8
"California is proving it does not work," he (Dean) said. "I think the reason the grid failed is because of utility deregulation."
Time and time again it has been pointed out that what was enacted in CA was NOT deregulation. And the reason the power went out back east not too long ago is probably not due to what he thinks the reason is.
#9
"Who is Dean preaching too? He's already got the wacko-left vote locked up. "
his base so far has been college kids, ex-hippies turned yuppies etc. His foreign and social policies dont play that well with blue collar dems, many of whom are lining up behind Gephardt, whos been beating up on Dean for past statements on trade, medicare, etc. Dean wants to kill of the Gephardt campaign in Iowa, but despite 2 union endorsements of Dean (note ASCME and SEIU - NOT industrial unions) Gephardt may still be ahead. This is an attempt to pry enough blue collars from Gephardt to win Iowa. With Gephardt gone after Iowa, Kerry probably gone after New hampshire, and both Clark and Edwards on the rocks, Dean is betting Leiberman is too far to the right to block him, even if hes looking more lefty. Problem is this almost certainly hurts a lot in the general election.
#12
Dean Recants Now Sez Trotsky Had it Coming. "He had his good points but in the end he was a a left deviationist metropolitan wrecker" said the former Governor of Vermont.
#14
Wait a couple of days before you send that check,CS.
After Howie feels the heat, he'll be back in front of the cameras explaining "what I really meant was..." ala the confederate flag flap.
The guy's a nut case.
#16
Old Pat...
If you're talking about Neville Chamberlain, he did indeed get squashed. He died the hard way... his (quite appropriate) emotions killed him.
#17
If anybody's got any friends in Vermont ask them what a shambles the Democratic party is in up there after Howie's enlightened reign. Sounds like he wants to take the program nationwide. I, for one, have no problem with that. No problem at all...
The U.S. military plans this week to conduct its final developmental test on the most powerful non-nuclear bomb in its arsenal, a weapon so big it is dubbed the "mother of all bombs," the Air Force said on Tuesday. The Air Force plans to detonate a 21,700-pound satellite-guided GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast Bomb, or MOAB, on Thursday at Eglin Air Force Base in the panhandle of northwestern Florida, said Jake Swinson, a spokesman for the Air Armament Center at the base. The huge conventional bomb will be dropped from an MC-130 Combat Talon cargo plane onto a test range at the base, Swinson said.
"This is the last development test," Swinson said, noting that the massive bomb will then become available for use as U.S. military commanders deem appropriate. Swinson said the bomb had undergone "a few minor modifications."
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
11/19/2003 12:46:01 PM ||
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Swinson said the bomb had undergone "a few minor modifications."
"It was originally 21,000 lbs, but we decided to increase weight to 21,700 lbs. A little more oomph to kill juuust a few more jihadis."
#5
I'm not sure how practical an 11 ton bomb that can only be dropped by a cargo plane is, but it sure makes good copy. And it might be JUST THE THING for use against the AQ holdouts in the Hindu Kush.
#6
I believe they said a MOAB can be dropped by a B-2 if necessary, probably even a B-52
Posted by: Val ||
11/19/2003 16:26 Comments ||
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#7
B-2 is all internal I think? Hell, who knows. Even if it were possible I doubt they'd want to stress the airframe that much. OP can they strap one on a Buff?
#8
B-2 can carry 40,000 lbs of payload -- they'd probably have to have a special mount for it, though (maybe replace the existing rotary racks). The key benefit of the MOAB, though, is that it's guided, so they can drop it from a much higher altitude than the Daisy Cutters.
#9
The B-2 is designed to carry up to 27,500 lbs in each of its two internal bomb-bays. The B-52's bomb-day is 28 1/2 feet long and in current configuration has a weight limit of 27,000 lbs.
According to this drawing, the MOAB is longer than the WW2 Grand Slam 22,000 lb bomb (25' 5") and is unlikely to fit either of these bomb-bays, though both can carry the weight pretty easily.
As for external carriage, this can be ruled out for the B-2, but the B-52's current underwing pylons carry up to 9 2000 lbs Mk. 84s each and there is good evidence that the actual limit is well above this.
NASA's famous NB-52 (AF 52-00008) carried the fully fuelled X-15 rocket plane (up to 52,000 lbs.) on one side with relatively little modification.
Note that the MOAB is highly streamlined, unlike the daisy-cutter (BLU-82), and this, too, would suggest suitability for external carriage.
#11
NASA's famous NB-52 (AF 52-00008) carried the fully fuelled X-15 rocket plane (up to 52,000 lbs.) on one side with relatively little modification.
Yeah, they're probably just using the -130 for testing and budget reasons. Even at age, the B52 probably still has the stones to lug around a MOAB. We might be finding out pretty soon, in any case. :) HERE'S a shot of one with the X-15 underwing. A whole slew of -15 pics are HERE.
EFL:
In a stunning reversal, the Ford Foundation has admitted it erred in funding anti-Israeli Palestinian groups and has vowed to establish tough new guidelines to stop its funds from being used for anti-Semitic activities anywhere in the world.
The group said it was "disgusted" by anti-Israel and anti-Semitic agitation action taken at the 2001 U.N. Conference Against Racism at Durban, South Africa, which the foundation helped finance.
"We now recognize that we did not have a clear picture of the activities, organizations and people involved," conceded Ford president Susan Berresford in a Nov. 17 letter to U.S. Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.). In addition to establishing new funding guidelines, the foundationÂŽs letter said the group promises to cease financing of pivotal anti-Israel groups and even recover funds where the grantÂŽs intent was violated.
In a section of BerresfordÂŽs letter titled, "Prevention of Funding for Terrorism," the Ford Foundation said it regularly checks approximately 4,000 active grantees against a State Department list to identify any that might be on the State DepartmentÂŽs proscribed list. "To date we have found no matches," the letter said. But, the letter continued, new measures will help ensure that funds will not be passed through one organization to another, or that Ford grantees use other independent monies to promote violence or terrorism.
The Berresford letter also contained a section titled, "Prevention of Funding for Bigotry and the Destruction of any State," which declared that organizations promoting the delegitimization or destruction of Israel would be ineligible for funding. "Grantees refusing to sign this agreement will not receive Foundation support," the letter said. "We will never support groups that promote or condone bigotry or violence, or that challenge the very existence of legitimate, sovereign states like Israel."
Meanwhile, in a special section specifically addressing the Durban conference, the Berresford letter completely reversed the earlier position of its vice president, Alexander Wilde.
In statements and letters to the editor, Wilde had insisted, "We do not believe" that the events at Durban "can be described as âagitation.ÂŽ " Oh, really?
In her letter, Berresford said, "Ford trustees, officers and staff were disgusted by the vicious anti-Semitic activity seen at Durban, and we were disappointed that it undermined the vital issues on the meetingÂŽs agenda." "The Foundation has reviewed its own information to establish whether Ford grantees took part in unacceptable, ugly and provocative behavior," she added. Promising action, BerresfordÂŽs letter said, "If the Foundation finds allegations of bigotry and incitement of hatred by particular grantees to be true, in conformance with normal Foundation policy, we will cease funding."
In that vein, BerresfordÂŽs letter announced that the Foundation "has decided to cease funding LAW, a grantee that has been the subject of criticism." LAW, whose full name is the Palestinian Committee for the Protection of Human Rights and the Environment, was a special focus of the JTA series. The group was a principal player in the anti-Israel agitation in Durban. An audit concluded it misappropriated millions in philanthropic funds. Tap, tap....nope.
"LAW had over 30 donors in all, including European and Scandinavian governments, and an audit commissioned by Ford and other donors revealed that it had misused funds," Berresford said. Good decision. You realise, of course, youâre a target now.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 12:13:07 PM ||
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I don't believe them (the Ford Foundation). We'll see in coming years if they are telling the truth or just laying low for a while.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
11/19/2003 12:22 Comments ||
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#2
That obscene Durban conference wound up its filthy business the weekend before 9/11. One of my first thoughts on hearing of the attacks in NYC and at the Pentagon was, "This is Durban by other means". Same intent, different tactics.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
11/19/2003 12:25 Comments ||
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#3
Bwahahaha! I scoff at the Army of Steve!- a day late
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 12:30 Comments ||
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#4
The group said it was "disgusted" by anti-Israel and anti-Semitic agitation action taken at the 2001 U.N. Conference Against Racism at Durban, South Africa, which the foundation helped finance.
"We now recognize that we did not have a clear picture of the activities, organizations and people involved," conceded Ford president Susan Berresford in a Nov. 17 letter to U.S. Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.).
And they're just barely coming to this conclusion? If I were Ms. Berresford, I'd be embarrassed.
The South Korean navy has launched the third of itâs three KDX II destroyers. The 4500 ship is a slightly larger version of the earlier three KDX I destroyers. The KDX Iâs, which were built in the late 1990s (the last one entered service in 1999) were 3,900 tons, 444 feet long and with a top speed of 54 kilometers an hour. Weapons and electronics are largely American. There are eight Harpoon anti-ship missiles, 16 Seasparrow anti-aircraft missiles, one five inch gun, two 30mm close range automatic cannon and six 12.75 inch torpedoes. The crew is 286 sailors. The three KDX II ships are 4400 tons and 495 feet long. But they will have more automation, a smaller crew (200 sailors) and different weapons (32 vertical launch tubes, plus eight Harpoons, for example.) The first KDX II will enter service next year.
Work has begun on the 7,000 ton KDX III, which will be even more similar to U.S. destroyers. These ships wonât be entering service until 2010. South Korea has several decades of experience building commercial ships, and this program perfects their warship construction skills. In addition to the KDX (Korean Destroyer Experimental) program, two 14,000 amphibious assault ships are being built. Each of these will carry 700 troops, ten helicopters, ten armored vehicles and two landing boats. North Koreaâs navy is based on the old Soviet model, with lots of small, fast, short range missile boats. The South Korean navy is built more on the U.S. model, and is expected to use superior technology to defeat the superior North Korean numbers. Destroyers? Amphibious ships? You donât suppose ...
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2003 12:06:10 PM ||
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#1
Dammit, I thought that said Koran Destroyer. Stop toying with my emotions!
#3
With the Sea Chicken missiles it is really a frigate, but severqal of them should be able to mop up the NK patrol boats - if they train and train so that they are effective at fighting. The Sparrows can be used against surface targets after the harpoons are gone. I didn't realize this but found it out looking up something that had to do with Murat.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 19:04 Comments ||
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The first of 102 F-16I fighters has been manufactured. This two seat version is being exported to Israel, where three squadrons are expected to be in service by 2008. The F-16I has an operating radius of 1500 kilometers on internal fuel, and can be refueled in the air for longer missions. About a quarter of the $45 million aircraftâs cost will consist of Israeli made electronics. The 24 ton aircraft is equipped to either clear the skies of hostile aircraft, or make precision bombing attacks in darkness or any kind of weather.
The F-16I is considerably more capable than any other warplane in service, or on the way, in the Middle East. Add to this the high skill levels of Israeli pilots, and you have continued domination of the air in and around Israel by the Israeli air force. The aircraft are being paid for by U.S. taxpayers, using some of the two billion dollars in American military aid Israel receives annually. Israel has been operating F-16s since 1980 and 236 (in several versions) of these aircraft form the backbone of the Israeli air force. Iâd like to see the Air National Guard get these. I have a friend, heâs a weekend warrior and pilot, he owes me a favor, and ...
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2003 12:01:42 PM ||
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Steve,in the past 25 years the USAF has procured over 120 of the "family model" F-16s.
The F-16B is a combat-capable two seat trainer version of the F-16A. Itâs essentially an -A model with the second cockpit added in place of internal fuel cells. The exterior dimensions of the two aircraft are the same with the exception of the second cockpit and longer canopy of the F-16B. Production aircraft deliveries began in 1978.
So if youâre just looking for a ride there is probably one around somewhere. Might not be as much fun as the 'I' model though.
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/f16b.htm
#2
The IDF continues (and correctly by my way of thinking) to use the F-16 backseater as weapons controller while the pilot flys the plane. USAF has pilot doing both. With complex precision guided weapons becoming more common and the increased stress of limiting civilian damage in a conflict, I think the IDF has it right.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 12:44 Comments ||
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#3
Well of all money who goes in the Middle East the one given to Isreal is the only one who will not be used to fund people who rejoiced in 9/11 and think bin Laden is a hero. Ask for cutting aid to this countries before whining about the poor US tax payer fubding F16s for Israel.
#4
GK, thanks for the info, I'll going to get to work him. Can't be but so hard for him (an A-10 driver) to get qualified in an F-16, eh? :-)
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2003 14:14 Comments ||
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#5
GK, when the Navy and Marines moved to the F/A-18, the Marines demanded a two seat version. I thought it was just to keep from having to dump all the F-4 backseaters into teh infantry. You have enlightened me.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 19:07 Comments ||
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EFL & My Special Little Touch
Tuesday, Vermont Gov. Howard Dean explained his support for extending the assault weapons ban forever next year because âdeer hunters donât need to have assault weapons.â Gen. Weasley Wesley Clark says: âI like to hunt. No really, I am a guys, guy! Check out my biceps! I have grown up with guns all my life, but people who like assault weapons should join the United States Army where I can micro manage them with my huge ego!, we have them.â Sen. John Kerry offered, âI never contemplated hunting deer or anything else with an AK-47.â He continued: âBecuase when I hunt Le Deer I just want to wound and not kill them, and watch them escape so they will die by some roadside later on.â
Charity Alert!...
The most charitable interpretation is that the banâs proponents know [absolutely]
nothing about guns. The âassault weapon banâ conjures up images of machine guns used by the military, which are surely not very useful in hunting deer. Yet, the 1994 federal assault weapons ban had nothing to do with machine guns, only semi-automatics, which fire one bullet per pull of the trigger. The firing mechanisms in semi-automatic and machine guns are completely different. The entire firing mechanism of a semi-automatic gun has to be gutted and replaced to turn it into a machine gun. Functionally, the banned semi-automatic guns are the same as other non-banned semi-automatic guns, firing the exact same bullets with the same rapidity and producing the exact same damage. The ban arbitrarily outlaws different guns based upon either their name or whether they have two or more cosmetic features, such as whether the gun could have a bayonet attached or whether the rifle might have a pistol grip. (This is what happens asshats who know nothing about such tools begin to tamper in another manâs toolbox.)
While there were no studies or scientific basis offered for making these distinctions, the different names or cosmetic features were claimed to make these guns more attractive to criminals. With the sniper trial now going in Virginia, the media understandably focuses on the so-called âsniper rifle.â Yet, the .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle (search) used in the sniper killings was neither a âsniperâ rifle nor an âassault weapon.â In fact, it is such a low-powered rifle that most states ban it even for deer hunting precisely because of its low power, too frequently wounding and not killing deer. By contrast, the much-maligned AK-47 (only new semi-automatic versions of the gun were banned) uses a .30-caliber bullet that is actually well suited to hunting deer. I say we pin some antlers on the two snipersâAssclown and Asshatârub some musk on them and ah, er, let them take a walk through the Catoctin Mountains. Read the whole thing as they say.
Posted by: Dragon Fly ||
11/19/2003 11:20:25 AM ||
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Why do I get the image of candidates dancing as Yosemite Sam shoots bullets at their feet?
Regardless of how you feel about hunting, it's not hard to see that this is going to really backfire [pun intended] on them. First of all, most real hunters won't be fooled by this transparent pandering. Secondly, most womendon't like discussions on how to blast away at Bambi and Thumper. For every avid hunter they pick up, they will be alienating droves of the women voters on whom they so desperately depend.
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 11:57 Comments ||
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#2
As long as loaded terms such as "assault weapons" and "sniper rifle" are used, otherwise sensible people are going to be motivated by fear (which in turn is bred by ignorance) to support these kinds of bans.
#3
The Democratic candidates - The Ninecompoops - should stick to what they know, such as bending over for liberal special interest groups and public service unions, courting the French electorate and bashing America [ed. - those last two are redundant], and leave the gun stuff to the Right.
Posted by: Tibor ||
11/19/2003 13:02 Comments ||
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#4
With these yahoos' advice to hunters the deer and antelope will be safer than a guy in his own home. Does anyone else have Jimmy Carter de jevu watching these 9 wimps bounce around Iowa and NH?
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
11/19/2003 13:27 Comments ||
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#5
sigh..you are all too close to this. The GOP is missing the perfect opportunity to score big with this.
It's too perfect. It's the ultimate Lose/Lose scenario for these guys. The anti-hunt, anti-gun people will become aware they hunt, and the hunt people will become aware they are idiots. It just doesn't get better than this.
Posted by: B ||
11/19/2003 14:01 Comments ||
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#6
Does anyone else have Jimmy Carter de jevu
Me Jack!
Still thinking about Jimmuuuh defending himself from the pit rabbit with his concealed paddle.
#7
Does anyone else have Jimmy Carter de jevu watching these 9 wimps bounce around Iowa and NH?
Two major differences: none of them are as coherent as Jimmahh was, and they have a strong, energetic, incumbent President, instead of a TRULY "unelected", but perfectly legitimate (and very weak) Ford. The rest of the repuglycon ticket in 1976 wasn't any better. My biggest worry is that if by some miracle any of them got elected, we'd have four more years of the disaster the Carter presidency represented.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 14:18 Comments ||
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#8
Dean, Clark, & Kerry - hahahaha, talking about any serious hunter taking a pseudo-military rifle into the woods - don't make me laugh. I've hunted all my life and have yet to see the .308 version of the AR-15 brandished in the wilderness by some yahoo - even though it would be perfectly legal (but really stupid looking). These guys have obviously never hunted (I don't believe Clark one bit - maybe wing shooting or clays w/an over-under), if they did deer hunt avidly, they would know no self-respecting hunter goes up in a tree-stand or stalk-hunts w/an AK or SKS. These guys need to stick to talking about tax hikes, gay marriage, and affirmative discrimination - that's about their speed. I hope the NRA pounds them on this. Also, this may push GWB to separate himself from them on this issue. Points to be made. B is right - time to score big. They take the wrong stance on guns and they will lose some swing states (i.e. Ohio).
#10
Ship - as far as swing states, definitely. One major reason Ohio jumped over to GWB from Gore was the gun issues about him. I'm from Michigan and can say that Gore almost lost that state over the same issue. Too bad so many union folks we're so afraid of Bush.
#11
The only military rifle I've EVER used to hunt with was my uncle's old M-1 Garand. I'd love to have a nice Springfield .303, but the price is exhorbitant - too high IMO for whatever return you'd get from it. Nice Remington or Winchester 30/30 with a scope and bipod makes more sense for REAL elk-hunting in these Colorado mountains, although any shot over about 400 meters isn't going to do much.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 16:11 Comments ||
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#12
I should also mention that a lot of deer hunters use shotguns due to local/state regulations. For a lot of hunters this ban is a moot point. If law abiding citizens want to buy "assault weapons" for collection purposes, shooting sports, or just home defense - let them. If gun dealers follow established SOP's and laws already on the books, common thugs won't be able to legally get a firearm now will they? Seems pretty obvious to me.
#13
Hell I've got cousins in the tideswamp who use dawgs, shotguns, rifles, salt, speakers, smells, atvs, SUVs, night vision goggles, tree stands, tree houses, misdirection, lying and bright lights to hunt with, if they needed an automatic weapon they'd have one and they don't. (use em for that)
#14
OP - the .30-30 is my deer slayer rifle of choice. Does everything I need for the distances I'm accustomed to taking deer at- 25-125 yrds. No scope though, I'm too cheap.
I also have a fully rifled .20 gauge remington 870 shotgun which is great for shotgun hunting.
A Hamas official said on Saturday the Palestinian militant group had replaced its representative to Sudan but had not quit the country. Palestinian sources had earlier said the representative left under from pressure from the United States, which has called on Khartoum to close the offices of Islamist groups. But Ghalib Hussein, Hamas information officer in Khartoum, told Reuters the former Hamas representative to Sudan, Jamal Eisa, had merely moved to Yemen after completing his four-year term in Sudan and had been replaced. ââHamas has an office here that is known to the state authorities. Nothing is hidden,ââ he said. ââThe representative of the Hamas movement has been moved to Yemen as part of an ordinary administrative procedure.ââ
Hussein, who is also manager of the al-Aqsa centre which provides information on Palestinian Islamist groups, said the new representative, Jumaa Abdel-Fattah, was not immediately available for comment. Washington lists Hamas as a ââterroristââ group and Sudan as one of seven ââstate sponsors of terrorism,ââ but recently said it would consider removing the country from the list if a peace deal to end a two-decade-civil war in the south was signed. U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, who last month visited peace talks in Kenya between Sudanâs main southern rebels and the government, said Sudan had yet to meet U.S. demands to shut the Khartoum offices of Palestinian groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Sudanese government officials have previously said they would not bow to U.S. pressure over Islamic groups.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/19/2003 10:57:20 AM ||
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Hamas is on Asia and Africa. A terrorist group with Global reach?
Three days of heavy fighting in the northwest of Galgadud Region have left at least 50 people dead and over 150 wounded, local sources in the regional capital, Dusa-Mareb, told IRIN on Monday. The fighting broke out last week between the Darod subclan of the Marehan and the Dir subclan of Fiqi Muhumud, and was concentrated in and around the village of Herale, some 80 km northwest of Dusa-Mareb, said Nur Muallim Dhere of the Dir. Herale village is populated by the Dir. According to Abdinasir Hashi of the Marehan clan, the current clashes were triggered by revenge killings™ for the death in May last year of a prominent Marehan businessman. But the ensuing escalation of violence was also attributed to disagreements over water and grazing in the area, another source from a neutral clan told IRIN. "It is more about water and grazing land right now. Herale is close to a good pasture area and water points are very close," he said. "Each group is trying to dislodge the other."
This particular clash between the two groups had been "exacerbated by the easy availability of heavy weapons and the terrain in which they are fighting", he added, noting that the area was flat, offering no cover from the battle-wagons (technicals) both sides were using. Nur told IRIN that his clan had lost 26 dead and over 65 wounded in the three days of fighting. Meanwhile, according to Abdinasir, the Marehan have lost about 40 dead and "over 70" wounded. The fighting has reportedly displaced hundreds of families, leaving them with no access to wells or water points, Nur said. He stressed the need for help, "but given the lack of roads and the current insecurity in the area, I doubt if anyone will come to our aid". Most of the displaced belong to the Dir, and have moved to safer areas like Dusa-Mareb, he said. Humanitarian sources in Dusa-Mareb told IRIN that if the fighting continued, "it could have serious humanitarian repercussions for the communities involved". "The biggest problem at the moment seems to be displacement and lack of shelter," the source said.
Both sides claim to be ready for peace talks, but so far no mediation efforts are taking place. The fighting subsided over the weekend, but the sides admit that "it is just a matter of time before a new round of fighting begins again". "Both sides are regrouping and rearming," said Nur.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/19/2003 10:54:09 AM ||
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Every time I read something like this, I think colonialism (British style) might not have been such a bad thing,
#2
Tornado: Well, it would suck for the colonizers. I know that I would not want to be Viceroy of Mogadishu...I would be reduced to chugging the gin all day long to get by...
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
11/19/2003 11:35 Comments ||
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#3
Yeah Carl but you'd get to wear one of those neat pith helmets.
#4
"It is more about water and grazing land right now. Herale is close to a good pasture area and water points are very close," he said. "Each group is trying to dislodge the other."
Just another range war, with heavy weapons. Billy The Kid would fit right in.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 12:24 Comments ||
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#5
Ah Steve, but you would have to go through Billy the Kid's Lawyer to make such statements defaming the Kid. Hope this URL works; if it doesn't then go to strange stories on Yahoo news.
SANTA FE - Gov. Bill Richardson has appointed a lawyer to represent the legal interests of dead outlaw Billy the Kid.
A man suspected of financing bandit units has been detained in the Nazran district of Ingushetia (the republic in the North Caucasus bordering on Chechnya), a spokesman for the provisional press centre of the Russian Interior Ministry in the North Caucasus reported on Monday. According to the press centre, the day before a 45-year-old inhabitant of the village of Yandari was detained as a result of the joint operation of the Russian Interior Ministry and the Russian Federal Security Service Department for Ingushetia. When searching his house the officers found equipment for printing false currency bonds, bank notes with signs of forgery, ten kilogrammes of platinum dust and drugs. The spokesman for the press centre said that the operation started after receiving the information from the earlier detained militants. At present, the law enforcement bodies are continuing the investigation. The police are now finding out the purpose and the projected recipient of the financierâs false bank notes to.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/19/2003 10:51:45 AM ||
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His day just got a LOT worse
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 18:47 Comments ||
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What, Binnyâs (or his stand-inâs) own word on it back in November isnât good enough?
American law enforcement officials are investigating last yearâs deadly takeover of a Moscow theater by Chechen rebels to determine whether al-Qaida was involved and whether criminal charges should be brought in the United States, officials said. I have this strong hunch that the answer is yes on both counts.
The death of an American citizen from Oklahoma City who was held hostage in the attack in October 2002 has allowed federal prosecutors to consider charges in the United States against Chechen organizers who they suspect may be linked to al-Qaida, officials said. Iâm suspected of being linked to my mother as well. Shamil Basayev is himself an alumni of the Afghan training program and Khattab has been working for Binny since at least the Tajik Civil War, with his successor being none other than a member of the infamously homicidal al-Ghamdi family. Gelayev Iâm not too sure about, but heâs got bases in the Pankisi Gorge where Abu Khabab, Saif al-Islam al-Masri, and Abu Iyad were all reputed to be hanging out despite the pious denials of Georgian government. Al-Masri has been in US custody for awhile, so if heâs singing we probably know a lot more about al-Qaeda connections in the Caucasus than weâre willing to let on, itâs simply a matter of whether or not itâs politically expedient to do so. In addition, the Russian government claimed a connection between the seige and controllers throughout the Gulf that are almost certainly al-Qaeda as well as the IMU in the Ferghana Valley.
A federal grand jury here heard testimony last week from a survivor of the harrowing 57-hour episode who was engaged to the American citizen. The woman, Svetlana N. Gubareva, 46, had reported speaking repeatedly to the Chechen ringleader in the theater. She was questioned not only about him, but about the powerful, untested opiate gas the Russian authorities used to end the siege. At least 129 of the nearly 800 hostages in the theater died, most due to the effects of the gas.
That's... ummm... 671 who survived. Cost-benefit analysis, anyone?
Gubarevaâs lawyer said prosecutors also asked him to identify other survivors who could testify in greater detail about the use of the gas. American law enforcement officials declined to explain the interest in the Russiansâ use of the gas, but they emphasized that Russian authorities were not a target of the investigation, which the State Department has signed off on. The previously undisclosed investigation is an outgrowth of a broader inquiry into possible terrorist ties between al-Qaida and Chechen rebels. The theater takeover "is a piece of the overall puzzle," an FBI official said. "Weâre trying to determine what the network that funded and authorized the attack was, and we want to see if that road takes us to al-Qaida. Weâre certainly very interested in establishing that link, but weâre not there yet." "I can say no more!"
The Russians have long argued that operatives have used the separatist struggle in Chechnya as a breeding ground for terrorism by financing and organizing violent attacks there. Although some Western officials have previously played down that assertion, the FBI has been intensifying efforts to investigate financial and logistical links between the two groups. Which they should have done immediately after 9/11 ...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/19/2003 10:49:25 AM ||
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If I remember correctly, the terrorrist in the theatre were all killed by the Russians before they woke up from the gas, which did not allow for much intellegence to be gathered.
Posted by: john ||
11/19/2003 13:14 Comments ||
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#2
"That's... ummm... 671 who survived. Cost-benefit analysis, anyone?"
In a hostage sit like that, you assume that all the folks there are dead. If you save even one you are ahead. The goal is of course to save 'em all, but...
The Russians did reasonably well given the circumstances.
#3
I had heard a theory that the heavy smoking habits of Moscovites played a part in the high deathtoll for the gas. I wonder if Dr White has any thoughts.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 21:39 Comments ||
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The Sudanese mass media said yesterday that the plane which crashed in southern Sudan on Monday and resulted in killing 13 persons was carrying a monetary shipment of 3.5 million dollars. The Russian-made transport plane was on its way to Wao town from Khartoum. Witnesses told the Sudanese paper al-Sahafa that a fire erupted in the plane before it blew up and fell down. The director general of the general aviation company in Sudan, Muhammad Abdul Qader, told journalists that the plane was carrying monetary shipment from the central bank of Sudan to one of the Bankâs branches in Wao. The rebels in southern Sudan had downed several planes during the past years, but they denied any link to the crash of this plane. Iâd check the wreckage and see if there is any trace of the cash on board. Plane crash would be a good cover for a robbery. Of course, it was a old Russian plane.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 10:38:43 AM ||
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Of course if you didn't know exactly where the plane had crashed, a claim of 3.5 million dollars aboard would motivate all sorts of search parties.
Iranâs former envoy to Argentina has returned home after emerging from a lengthy legal ordeal in Britain sparked by an extradition request from Buenos Aires, where he is accused of involvement in a deadly 1994 bombing of a Jewish cultural center. On his return to Tehran in the early hours of Wednesday, Hadi Soleimanpour brushed off the case against him as "an international conspiracy against the Iranian nation and against high ranking Iranian officials." All together now: "Itâs a Zionist Plot!"
"They tried to taint the Iranian nation with something it had nothing to do with," he told the state news agency IRNA. "The Iranian nation is too immaculate to be involved in international terrorism." Then his lips fell off.
Soleimanpour, 47, was arrested in Britain in August on an Argentine warrant accusing him of providing help and cover to those behind the car bombing of the Argentine Jewish Mutual Association, which left 85 people dead and 300 injured. The former envoy was then released on bail of 730,000 pounds (1.05 million euros, 1.22 million dollars) — paid in part by the Iranian government — and on November 12 Britain turned down the Argentine extradition request. He was studying at Britainâs Durham University prior to his arrest, and fiercely denied any connection to the bombing. He also pointed out that he was not in Buenos Aires at the time of the attack. Skipped town before the blast.
Soleimanpour said his "education in Britain is over", and added he would be "honoured" to return to work at the Iranian foreign ministry. Well, he is fully qualified.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 10:16:46 AM ||
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If he were really guilty, wouldn't the Mossad have taken care of him?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 21:52 Comments ||
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Two months before trial, the government has indicated that new charges are likely to be filed in the terrorism case against a civil rights lawyer and her co-defendants, lawyers said. Michael Tigar, an attorney for civil rights lawyer Lynne Stewart, said he did not know the nature of the possible charges. Stewart and co-defendants Mohammed Yousry, an Arabic translator, and Ahmed Abdel Sattar, a U.S. postal worker, are accused of helping a jailed terrorist deliver messages to his followers. All have pleaded innocent. That would be Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, the cleric to the Islamic Group. Heâs serving life in prison after he was convicted of conspiring to blow up New York City landmarks and assassinate Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. Kenneth Paul, a lawyer for Sattar, said the government told Judge John G. Koeltl that it was seeking a superseding indictment and was awaiting approval from the Justice Department to add new charges. "Theyâve told us, âRest assured. There will be additional charges,â" Paul said. Goody, goody.
In July, Koeltl threw out charges that the defendants gave material support or resources to terrorists, saying that prosecutors had applied an anti-terrorism law in a way that was unconstitutionally vague. He left intact charges that Stewart and the others conspired to defraud the United States and that Stewart made false statements. Michael Kulstad, a spokesman for U.S. Attorney James B. Comey, did not immediately return a telephone message.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/19/2003 9:54:26 AM ||
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If you ever saw Lynne Stewart you would know why they developed the Burqa!
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
11/19/2003 13:29 Comments ||
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#2
I have and that's a great call, Jack
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 15:02 Comments ||
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#3
"Now here's a quarter. Why don't you down to the alley and pay some rat to suck that thing off your face."
JPost Reg Reqâd EFL
A terrorist shot at a group of South American tourists wounding 5, one critically, as they were passing through the Rabin border crossing from Jordan to Israel, north of Eilat in the Arava desert. The wounded were evacuated to Eilatâs Yoseftal Hospital by Magen David Adom. One of the tourists suffered a gunshot wound to the head and her condition is described as critical, hospital officials said. The gunman has been identified as a Jordanian truck driver, a resident of Zarqa - a predominantly Palestinian city 27 kilometers northeast of Amman. surprise meter.....nope
According to reports, the terrorist arrived at the crossing from the Jordanian side and hid amongst the commercial trucks making their way through the border. As soon as a large group of South American tourists began making its way into Israel, he pulled out an AK-47 assault rifle and shot 5 bursts of automatic fire into the crowd just meters from the border terminal. Israeli security guards working for the port authority identified the gunman and killed him. good response - now hang his dead body in a pig carcass at the crossing
Army forces then began combing the area for more attackers. According to Israel Radio the tourists, reportedly from Ecuador and Venezuela, were passing from Jordan to Israel. According to a hospital official, one of the wounded tourists said his group had just managed to cross over into Israel after visitng Jordan, and were fired on just moments after entering Israeli territory. The tourist, who was wounded in the leg, said he saw Israeli guards shoot and kill the terrorist. As the attack started, Jordanian and Israeli security officials at the border crossing established contact and coordinated their actions. "Jordan regrets the incident and ... condemns acts of violence which target civilians," Jordanian minister Asma Khader told the Associated Press.
Jordan the country has become civilized. Jordanians individually haven't all caught up. Paleostinians living in Jordan haven't even caught up to the laggards...
According to Israel Radio, Jordanian security at the crossing is lax, but Jordanian security forces report they have already arrested several suspects connected to the attack. Jordan doesnât need Paleo freelance violence — Hussein probably drummed that lesson in his sonâs ear
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/19/2003 8:43:05 AM ||
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"The wounded tourists did manage to complete shopping for t-shirts, postcards, and other knickknacks before being evacuated."
Posted by: Dar ||
11/19/2003 9:30 Comments ||
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#2
According to Israel Radio the tourists, reportedly from Ecuador and Venezuela, were passing from Jordan to Israel.
New tactic - enlist friends for the Palestinian cause by shooting at them!
Raising the stakes in an already tense situation, China threatened in remarks published Wednesday that "the use of force may become unavoidable" if the island pursues independence — the mainlandâs strongest statement in years against its archrival. But Wang Zaixi, a top mainland official who deals with the Taiwan issue, also said China felt close to the Taiwanese people and was "not willing to meet at the battleground." Wang, vice-minister of the Taiwan Affairs Office of the State Council, said curbing Taiwanâs efforts toward independence is the main goal of the mainland, which will go to war if necessary. More of the usual.
"If the Taiwan authorities collude with all âsplittistâ forces to openly engage in pro-independence activities and challenge the mainland and the one-China principle, the use of force may become unavoidable," Wang was quoted as saying in the China Daily. Separatists were "set to pay a high cost if they think we will not use force," Wang said. "Taiwan independence means war." Tell us something we donât know.
Wangâs remarks came as Taiwan prepares to elect a new leader next March. Recent public polls show that President Chen Shui-bian has gained popularity with voters since he came up with plans for a new constitution last month. He has also introduced a law referendums that could lead to citizens voting on Taiwanâs independence. Saber rattling usually occurs right before the election.
The introduction of a new constitution and referendums are "extremely dangerous behaviors," Wang was quoted as saying by the official Xinhua News Agency. He was speaking at a seminar on cross-straits relations. "That Chen is using ... presidential running tools to get himself re-elected and to push our Taiwanese compatriots to the brink of conflict with the motherland is immoral and is behavior that will destroy peace in the Straits of Taiwan," Wang said. "The people of Taiwan are our brothers and sisters," he said. "We are not willing to meet at the battleground." "Because weâre concerned we could get our asses handed to us by our brothers and sisters!"
On Tuesday, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said the Bush administration would deploy sufficient force in the Asia-Pacific area to lower tensions between China and Taiwan. "We have good competent forces there," Armitage said as he also offered assurances that the Bush administration would provide Taiwan with "sufficient defense articles for her self-defense." Those Arleigh-Burke destroyers might be a step closer to sale.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2003 12:32:28 AM ||
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"Taiwan independance means war". Hey weenies!!!
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
11/19/2003 10:11 Comments ||
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#4
Good point re the Norks, Anon.
The Red chinese certainly DO have a right to engage in conflict to prevent the secession of any part of China: That was what OUR Civil War was all about. WINNING is a different matter alltogether, and it is perfectly within OUR rights to support one side or the other. I say we support Taiwan, and if they move onto the mainland and start whupping the Red Chinese, more power to them. (BIG if, naturally, but don't threaten a fight if you can't win, and don't secede if you're going to lose.)
#5
Taiwan doesn't have the capability of projecting power to the mainland. If war breaks out, the PRC will roll over Taiwan within a few days without U.S. intervention. The Taiwanese could last longer, but their military would be completely destroyed, thousands of civilians would be killed and their country would be in ruins. The Taiwanese have said that they will fight to the death if they know the U.S. is coming to their aid. The PRC will keep running their sucks about war if independence is declared, but it is all show. In order to take Taiwan, the PRC has to solve their problem that has prevented them from doing anything for the past 40 years: amphibious lift.
#6
Ptah, your analogy falls short since Tiawan was barely part of China prior to the Nationalists taking over. Before that it was controlled by Japan for a long time. It's part of historical China in the way the Phillipines are.
Murtah, the Chinese could not currently take Taiwan militarily without nukes. Too much water to cross, and the PRC does not have enough landing craft or the means to defend them. All China can hope to do is apply pressure using blockades and political manuevers.
#7
However, the PRC has enough short and medium range missiles pointed at Taiwan to make a mess should they decide to do so. If the Taiwanese do declare independence, the PRC can 1) announce that Taiwanese ports are closed, thus driving martime insurance in the region sky-high, 2) throw a bunch of missiles at Taiwan to attrit the latter's missile defense and communications, 3) make threatening faces noises at the US to keep us back and 4) run some air and special ops at Taiwan.
All that combined would collapse the Taiwanese economy and perhaps its political structure as well. The PLA then can com over on tourist ships. It's not a bad strategy if your belief is that in the end, the US won't intervene -- as in, a Democrat is President.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2003 11:50 Comments ||
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#8
The Red chinese certainly DO have a right to engage in conflict to prevent the secession of any part of China: That was what OUR Civil War was all about.
WINNING is a different matter alltogether, and it is perfectly within OUR rights to support one side or the other.
Ah, the complete and despicable moral relativism which says that two completely opposed courses of action are both in the moral right, just because the *actors* are different.
I, on the other hand, am a moral absolutist:
If it's China's moral right to stop the so-called "secession" of Taiwan by force, then America doesn't have any right to intervene by supporting the Taiwanese.
If it had been Saddams's moral right to torture his people, fund terrorists, build WMDs, add-justification-of-the-week, then America would have likewise no moral right to invade Iraq.
The Civil War's moral quality would have been altogether different if the abolition of slavery hadn't been the primary issue at stake there.
#9
Try again Aris, slavery was not the primary issue at stake in the Civil War. If I may invoke Lincoln, it was he who said, if I can maintain the Union and free all slaves I would do it. If I can maintain the Union and free some slaves, I would do that. If I can maintain the Union and free no slaves, I would do that as well. Not an exact quote, but as even an idiot such as you can see, the Civil War was solely about preserving the Union. As for US interfering in a 'Chinese Civil War', damn straight we will. The Taiwanese have asked us to protect them, we said, 'yes'. There is a reason we maintain a Carrier Task force in the area. And don't claim to be a 'moral absolutist', or did you mean an 'amoral absolutist'? You wouldn't know morality if I was beating you over the head with it.
#10
Now, Swiggles, just as I was going to point out to Aris that the CW's major point was not seceding from the union, Aris on that point was not an idiot. He's not an American. Why would he know, especially since a lot of Americans think the same?
#11
My own beliefs are personal, based on the same beliefs that provide the basis for our government - that any group of people have the right to decide for themselves how and by whom they will be governed. If the people of Taiwan wish to live freely and independently, with their own form of government, it isn't the People's Republic's (what an oxymoron) business to say "no". The same type of thougth applies to the Kurds in northern Iraq. At the moment, they appear to be willing to accept a blanket government that's inclusive, rather than trying to go it alone. Many of the former Soviet Union's members felt otherwise.
It would be extremely expensive for the People's Republic of China to conquer Taiwan - so expensive the nation may never recover. They cannot afford, at this time, to concentrate their efforts against Taiwan because of separatists in their own midst - Tibetans, Muslims in the "Western" provinces, etc., and the troubling problem of North Korea. There's also the little matter of SARS, and a few other worrisome economic signs that indicate the PRC may be in dire straits ⢠economically, politically, and even militarily. The force projection into the Spratleys is costing them dearly, with little gain so far, and little world backing.
If China doesn't rein North Korea, Japan may well rebuild its military to the point where it could challenge a weak, unfocused China, possibly even with the development of nuclear weapons and the means of delivering them.
With all that in mind, I see the current bit of rhetoric from the PRC as mere sabre-rattling, the same old pre-election garbage that's been dumped on Taiwan since the early 1950's.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/19/2003 13:04 Comments ||
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#12
MURTAH - You underestimate defenses of Taiwain. You also ignore some very serious issues in the ability of the Chinese to project power. As it stands they could move no more than a division across the straight at a time, unless they use commericail boats (One big turkey shoot). Plus the fact that China would exhaust its suppy of short range missles in the openeing few slavo's. Hundreds would be needed to deny Taiwain use of ports, airfields and c2 capabilities. Plus the fact that Taiwain could very quickly have 40k plus troops on top of any chinesse divisions that managed to get ashore. Currently the Chinese would be very hard pressed - but 10 years from now will be a different story.
Aris - study american history then come back and comment.
Posted by: Dan ||
11/19/2003 13:10 Comments ||
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#13
Steve, your comments re Taiwan also apply to RPC as well. China itself is so heavily trade dependant that any attempts to blockade Taiwan would probably close chinese ports as well, resulting in mutual economic disaster. Course if it went on long enough it would hurt Wal-Mart.
Posted by: john ||
11/19/2003 13:23 Comments ||
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#14
Fact is the Civil War was another era. If a part of the US wanted to leave the Union peacefully they would be let go without a fight. We're practically pushing Puerto Rico to get them to make a decision one way or the other.
Does anyone think Canada would go to war to keep Quebec from leaving if they truly voted to go? It would be more a matter of legal wrangling over which side the Mohawks fall into and how to split the National Debt.
Even North Ireland, which never had a true majority voting for independence. The British sent troops in to stop both sides from killing each other, not to crush anyone.
Even Israel entertains Palestinian independence claims and is more concerned with how dangerous a Pal state would be to Israel and how to get the Pals to accept 97% of their own stated demands.
Only dictatorships talk about smashing their own citizens for talking about independence. The PRC is sick.
#15
The Civil War's moral quality would have been altogether different if the abolition of slavery hadn't been the primary issue at stake there
Jeeez... Aris is right. It wasn't until after Sharpsburg and the Emancipation Proclimation that the war was framed as a moral crusade against slavery. But it was so framed and it did change the tenor of the war.
#16
Swiggles> "the Civil War was solely about preserving the Union."
Pfft. The only reason the Southern states had for wanting to secede was that they wanted the right to impose slavery on millions of black-skinned people.
Yes, *Lincoln's* primary motive was preserving the United States. He did the right thing for all the wrong reasons. So what? It still remains that the only reason the Southern states wanted to depart was that they wanted to keep slavery. Why are you only examining Northern motives for the war and not the Southern ones?
And as Shipman says, once the Emancipation Proclamation was issued the moral quality of the war completely changed, turning IMAO from a morally ambiguous war into a clear-cut fight between good and evil, as much as so as World War II later was.
#17
Dan> study american history then come back and comment
Wanna bet that I know far more American history than you do? You and others here seem to have fallen to the PC fallacy of wanting to see all sides in a war as morally equal.
It's a pretty fantasy, and sweetly revisionistic -- if we can pretend that the Southern States's decision to secede had nothing whatsoever to do with slavery (regardless of the fact that the Confederation constitution *demanded* that all these states keep slavery) then we share the blame equally between the two sides.
Here's the moral quality of the Confederacy! -- and the moral quality of their war of secession:
Article I, Section XI "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed. "
Article IV, Section II. "The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired. "
Article IV, Section III. "In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States."
---
And here's the moral quality of the Northern side of the war, *once* the Emancipation Proclamation was made:
"...I do order and declare that all persons held as slaves within said designated States and parts of States are, and henceforward shall be, free; and that the Executive Government of the United States, including the military and naval authorities thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of said persons."
--
Keep on treating knowledge as ignorance and the issue of slavery as trivial, Dan. It's very PC of you, but I'm sure it eases Southern guilt.
#18
"Does anyone think Canada would go to war to keep Quebec from leaving if they truly voted to go? "
No, but theyd have the right too under international law.
Re Chinas right and US right to support Taiwan - IIUC international law does grant a sovereign the right to fight a rebellion - however if the sovereign is unable to maintain de facto control, others do have the right to aid the rebels i believe. I think this is one area where international law allows for war to take place with NEITHER side being formally the aggressor - anyone know the relevant international law?
A lot depends on de facto independence. While Taiwan has certainly been governed seperately for decades, its govt has NEVER claimed to be an independent Taiwan (claiming instead to be the true govt of all China - though in recent years that claim has been not only impractical, but insincere) So the clock would start ticking as soon as Taiwan declared its independence - Taiwan would then be de facto independent - and China would need to re-conquer it before that de facto independence lasted long enough to become de jure, and make Chinas activities aggression. Meanwhile the US could assist de facto independent Taiwan, without committing aggression against China, as long as China had no de facto control. International lawyers please correct me.
"No rule of international law forbids secession from an existing state; nor does any rule exist which forbids the mother state from crushing the secessionary movement, if it can.
à Whatever the outcome of the struggle, it will be accepted as legal in the eyes of international law.
§ These propositions may need modification when one side is acting contrary to the principle of self-determination, but the principle of self-determination has a limited scope and the propositions remain true in most cases.
· But, so long as the mother states is still struggling to crush the secessionary movement, it cannot be said the that the secessionary authorities are strong enough to maintain control over their territory with any certainty of permanence.
¨ Intervention by third states is prohibited, according to Malanczuk [a contributor to âopinio jurisâ (BD)].
à Traditionally, therefore, states have refrained from recognizing secessionary movements as independent states until their victory has been assured; for instance, no country recognized the independence of the southern states during the American civil war.
à In recent years, however, states have used (or abused) recognition as a means of showing support for one side of the other in civil wars of s secessionary character; thus in 1968 a few states recognized Biafra as an independent state after the tied of war had begun to turn against Biafra, recognition was intended as a sign of sympathy.
§ Particularly controversial in the context of the Yugoslavian conflict has been the drive for early recognition of Slovenia and Croatian, which Germany and Austral justified as being an attempt to contain the civil war, but which was seen by the other states as premature action which actually stimulated it."
#20
Dan- You didn't read the last line of my comment in regards to the PRC's big problem: AMPHIBIOUS LIFT.
The PRC has more than enough Theatre Ballastic Missiles to handle Taiwan's Airfield's and ports, with more left over. 10 Years? More like 3-4 before they have enough LST variants and assault craft. When I made my comment about rolling over the Taiwanese in a few days, I forgot to mention that it would be when they had sufficient amphib capability to move the required forces and IF the US doesn't intervene. Yes, the ROC military is quite capable, but it can't handle the sheer weight of a suprise (2-3 days notice) PRC invasion. Again, this assumes the PRC has the amphib capability. Every year the PRC holds a major exercise in the Straits. When the PRC decide to go for it, that exercise will turn real. If the Taiwanese doubt or are told we aren't coming, then it will be over in a few days because the ROC will surrender rather than watch as their country is destroyed. Yes, I have spoken to Taiwanese officers about the matter.
#22
Shipman,
I had a friend that was offered Beach Master School for orders. He decided to get out of the service instead. As I remember, my detailers may have offered me a Forward Observer billet. I consider both sets of orders to be a death sentence in actual comabt. In an opposed landing the Beach Master is the guy who gets to stay on the beach and direct traffic.
In order to perform an opposed landing in this day in age you would need to have the following conditions:
1. Total surpise
2. Immediate destruction of all enemy sub assets.
3. The ability to clear mines quick enough to get boots on the beach before total surprise is lost.
4. Complete air superiority
A formation of large amphibs would be a turkey shoot for a wolf pack of diesel sumarines. You could also easily mount harpoon launchers on fast patrol boats like the PHM class of hydrofoils we used to have. The sea would be red with blood.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
11/19/2003 19:57 Comments ||
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#23
Uh, Aris?
Actually, the American Civil War was over State's Rights.
At that time and place, the Southern states were gradually being outnumbered in both Houses of our Congress. The election if Abraham Lincoln was the tipping point. If a vote to make slavery illegal took place, the South would have lost by a slim - but very real - margin. They KNEW this.
That's what the real question came down to... who had the _FINAL_ say over what's legal in America, and what's not.
The Southern states wanted it to be the individual state. ie, if Virginia made slavery legal and a neighboring state didn't like that, the neighboring state and the federal government could just get fucked.
Basically, they wanted each state to be an individual mini-nation, loosely connected. The Federal government, in their eyes, existed only to control interstate commerce and the like. Anything that DID NOT cross a state border wasn't to be subject to the Federal government's say-so, or so they felt. Anything that did cross a state border was - the South reluctantly admitted - might be subject to Federal control.
(Rather like the earliest stages of the European Union, eh?)
The Northern states wanted final authority to rest in the Federal government. ie, Washington says so, the states salute and obey.
Slavery was just the issue that finally pushed it to the point of all out war. Once the anti-slavery leagues in the Northern states outnumbered the South, they could take their votes and FORCE the South to bow to their greater numbers. (Majority rule, you see...)
The South was outnumbered, didn't want to accept that, and finally it came to blows.
Even if slavery hadn't been an issue, the War was inevitable. The South NEVER liked having to bow to the voting pressure of the richer and more populated North. But, as I said, the North had more voters, and majority rules, eh?
Ed Becerra.
Posted by: Ed Becerra ||
11/19/2003 20:47 Comments ||
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#24
Ed, good post. I grew up in the North but have spent the last 7 years of my life down South. Mainly in the Carolinas but also Virginia. Northern and Southern arguments on the war are as sharply divided as are their accents. Aris is correct in that the war turned from just saving the union to the formal abolition of slavery as well w/the Emancipation Proc. This was a couple years into the war. Although most northern soldiers & the northern populace at large said that slavery was a minor point, the major issue was keeping the union together. Lincoln made numerous statements to the same. Matter of fact, a good portion of the northern populace didn't even agree w/the war. Sounds familiar. There were some very vocal abolitionist groups that made slavery the central point. A lot of these groups had rich backers that could influence northern politicians in the capitol. The south knew this as well.
Ed points out a lot of the southern frustration at the outset of the war. The politics underneath so to speak. Another part of it was the determination of future states as slave states or free states. Kansas was a focal point of that argument. If I recall right, the Federal Gov't w/the northern majority declared Kansas and all future territories as WILL be free territories, the south countered that slavery (as Ed states) was up to the state to decide. The south was worried that other "states rights" issues would also be eroded in time as slavery was just the tip of the iceberg. South Carolina, which was the richest state in the union at the time had the most to lose if slavery was abolished. As we know, they were the first to get outta the union and the first to implement hostilities. The south felt that if the north finally took control of both houses, they would be further weakened economically. I'm in no way trying to justify their actions or slavery, just citing the southern argument as I have heard it related to me by many southerners. Thankfully the war's history, the north prevailed, slavery was abolished, and we are a whole nation. I would say that if the south had been succesful in its endeavor we would not be the super power we are today. World history from the 1860s on would be extremely different.
#25
Jarhead, for one person's opinion as to how different world history would have been take a look at Harry Turtledove's on-going series about the American South, starting with "So Few Remain". It assumes that the South won the war (actually captured Washington and Lincoln in 1862) and goes from there.
What is disturbing is that he shows how America would have become Europe.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/19/2003 23:31 Comments ||
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#26
Actually, the major factor triggering the war wasn't so much slavery as trade and tarriffs. The South was getting screwed economically by the richer North, and couldn't get anyone to change their minds. I had an FSU professor in Panama that gave us about a dozen books to read with each class. One of those was "The Economic Root of War". Don't remember the author, but his book explained how economic policy usually triggered warfare in one way or another. The Civil War was only one of many (including the Revolutionary War, WWII, the Spanish-American War, the War of the Roses, etc. - long list!) he disected. Apparently, Northern bankers had developed the capability of manipulating cotton prices to the detriment of Southern growers. Slavery played a VERY peripheral part in the Civil War, but was elevated when the South appeared to be winning.
It's ancient history now, but some of the same points apply: China is not economically able to engage in a long, costly war (even a short one may be too costly in the long run). Some of China's internal policies are going to come home to roost in ten or fifteen years, making it even LESS likely they'll be able to project sufficient force to "retake" Taiwan. The only hope for a union of mainland and Taiwanese forces would have to depend on major changes in the government of the PRC, specifically liberalization of the rights of the individual and reduction of the role of government in daily living. The PRC may be forced to make those changes just to continue to survive. Socialist countries make too many wrong moves, have too slow a response to stimulae, and just plain cannot allow free thought without sowing the seeds of their own destruction. It'll be a noisy collapse but I predict China will collapse before Taiwan is forcefully "united" with mainland China.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/20/2003 0:11 Comments ||
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#27
Ed> "American Civil War was over State's Rights"
Once again the only State's Right it was over was the right to slavery.
"The Southern states wanted it to be the individual state."
I've already PROVEN to you all that this is entirely FALSE. The Confederacy didn't give to individual states the right to decide whether they would keep or abolish slavery, its constitution DEMANDED that they keep slavery.
If the war had truly been about "State's Rights", you'd expect the right of each state to decide on its own should have been enshrined, shouldn't it? Instead of the institution of slavery itself.
On the issue of slavery, each of the Confederate States of America had fewer "rights" than while they were in the Union -- the Union *at that time* was a wimp, allowing each state to make an individual choice on the slavery issue.
Confederacy didn't offer them that choice at all. They *had* to keep slavery and that's that.
Once again it's a lie that this is about "State's Rights".
"Even if slavery hadn't been an issue, the War was inevitable. "
You'll be surprised at how many things *are* evitable, when their primary cause is taken away. Slavery wasn't just "an" issue, it was the primary issue for South's desire to secede.
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"Another part of it was the determination of future states as slave states or free states."
Also about slavery.
"South Carolina, which was the richest state in the union at the time had the most to lose if slavery was abolished. As we know, they were the first to get outta the union and the first to implement hostilities."
What a coincidence that the first to getta outta the union was the state having more to lose if slavery was abolished.
But oh no, it was never about slavery, never at all. And I'm a stupid and ignorant idiot for claiming that it was.
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