Saudi security forces fought a gunbattle with suspected militants in western Saudi Arabia Tuesday, official sources said. Confirming a report on Saudi-owned Al Arabiya television, a government source said the shootout occurred near the city of Ta'if, which is near the Muslim holy city of Mecca. Gunmen fired on police a check-point in the mountainous region.
I'll put my money on the gunmen getting away.
Saudi Arabia has tightened security around Western targets after a weekend rampage by Islamic militants on the opposite side of the vast country which killed 22 civilians in the eastern city of Khobar. Three of the attackers escaped. It was not immediately clear if there was any link between Tuesday's gunbattle and the weekend's events.
Nothing is clear in Saudi.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/01/2004 1:56:41 PM ||
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If the Saudis let 3 out of 4 loose after the previous attack, it is quite evident that the Road-to-Hell Curve⢠for SA is getting out of the psuedo straight section and getting to the exponential part. The jihadis will build upon their success like compound interest.
Oops, sorry, compound interest is a sin in Islam. My apologies, please accept my apology. Uh, I didn't mean it....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/01/2004 14:47 Comments ||
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#3
If they are battling... wouldn't that pretty much make them militant?
#5
Good old al-Reuters and their "militants."
Even Arab News says they're terrorists.
I suppose it's escaped noone's notice that this a different group than the one in al-Khobar...
Posted by: Jen ||
06/01/2004 15:17 Comments ||
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#6
Check out this bit from the report:
Saudi Arabia has been locked in battle in the past year with militants linked to Saudi-born Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network, which is trying to bring down the U.S.-backed monarchy.
Unreal.
The Sods are only our puppets--Who knew?
As usual, it's all our fault.
OBL used to be mad because the U.S. was "defiling the holy lands of Arabia" by having the Prince Sultan airbase.
Well, we shipped everyone out of there.
Now, it's because we "keep" the Sauds in power?
I thought it was because we supported Israel and the Sods "let" us.
al-Rooters needs to get their kuffi'r/infidel/GreatSatan story straight.
Posted by: Jen ||
06/01/2004 15:23 Comments ||
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GUNMEN who attacked a residential compound in al-Khobar and took hostages in a weekend of carnage managed to flee the scene disguised as military personnel, a former hostage said today. "The four terrorists ran away in military uniforms," said the man, requesting anonymity. He said three of the assailants had initially arrived "wearing black sports clothes and the fourth was dressed as an Afghan".
That's always a good disguise. Every time I disguise myself as an Afghan people don't notice me. Except for the girlies. They always want to touch my rocket launcher...
As they fled "they jumped over a wall of the hotel where they had taken us hostages, after which three terrorists seized a van" and drove off, added the former hostage. As three of the gunmen fled the hotel together, the fourth took off in another vehicle. "But security forces gave chase, shooting at his vehicle, seriously wounding him before he was stopped not far off from the complex" where the hostages were held, a policeman involved in his capture told AFP.
"Stop or we'll [BANG!] shoot!"
The Times newspaper however reported today the three gunmen were allowed to walk free when they cut a deal with Saudi authorities after threatening to kill more Westerners. "There was a kind of deal reached, although some hostages had already been killed," said the source, who was not named.
That's probably why the Soddies got to shoot one of them. I wonder if they drew straws?
"The security forces refused (to negotiate) at the beginning but then apparently relented." The source told the London daily the three had fled on foot from the building in al-Khobar, shortly before Saudi forces landed on the roof, and that they hijacked a car only once outside the complex. "To leave, they had to puncture three cordons of defence," the source said.
... which in Soddy Arabia isn't all that hard to do, unless you're an alk runner.
The interior ministry announced the four gunmen had killed 22 people and wounded 25 others during their bloody 24-hour rampage that began Saturday and only ended after commandos stormed the sprawling Oasis residential compound. A ministry statement also said three of the gunmen had managed to escape while the fourth, the alleged group leader, was wounded and captured as elite forces stormed the compound to free the hostages. The interior ministry gave little detail about how the three managed to get away after cutting the throats of nine hostages, despite the fact that the building and the compound were supposed to have been surrounded for a day.
I'm sure they're not going to give any more detail than they absolutely have to. Even for Arabs, they push the limits of incompetence...
The ministry said the men had used a getaway vehicle to leave al-Khobar and then fled to nearby Dammam, capital of the oil-rich Eastern Province. Witnesses there reported that they had once again escaped their pursuers.
"Which way do he go, George? Which way did he go?"
Saudi Sultan al-Oteibi told AFP yesterday the trio had seized his car at gunpoint in Dammam, 10 kms north of al-Khobar, after they had abandoned a pickup truck. "The three men were in military uniforms when they took the car," said Oteibiâs Palestinian neighbour, Shadi Mahmoud Shenaa, who was driving Oteibiâs car when it was seized. Oteibi said his car was hijacked early Sunday morning. If the timing is correct, the gunmen who had taken dozens of people hostage had disappeared well before Saudi troops launched an assault at 5.30am on the compound building where the militants had been holed up since Saturday.
Fewer casualties among the Lions of the Desert that way...
"When security forces stormed the hotel, they didnât find any of the four terrorists," another former hostage told AFP. The apparent ease of the flight of the killers only added to alarm bells sounding abroad and drove oil prices even higher as fears of disruption to supplies from Saudi Arabia intensified. Statements purportedly from al-Qaeda claimed responsibility for the latest attacks and vowed to "cleanse the Arabian Peninsula of infidels". Eighteen on a Saudi list of 26 most-wanted terror suspects remain at large amid a nationwide crackdown on suspected al-Qaeda sympathisers whose campaign has claimed dozens of lives and left hundreds wounded over the past year.
Posted by: tipper ||
06/01/2004 11:53:25 AM ||
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The Times newspaper however reported today the three gunmen were allowed to walk free when they cut a deal with Saudi authorities after threatening to kill more Westerners.
Haahahahaha, these moronic "authorities" had the criminals in custody and let them go after they threatened to kill more Westerners?
Note to Saudi authorities: locking up criminals means that they aren't free to do more of what they've been doing. That's why criminals are incarcerated, you idiots.
#2
Isn't that interesting!!! Prince Nayef, the interior Minister + Prince Sultan (I think he is the father of Prince Bandar, the Ambassador)+ Salman (gov. of Ryadh)are playing the usual double games They are fighting the established line of succession and they are against Prince Abdullah.I can assure you that the 3 terrorists that escaped will not be found. OBL is well aware of this game since he gets funding from Nayef et al.I guess it is time for the Saudis to start acquiring an education on running their oil wells instead of having so many PHD in Koranic studies.It seems that once Nayef lets enough foreigners die,the govern. may fall.....etc.,etc. So who is going to support the lifestyle of Bandar and his family (from savings), Abdullah, King, Nayef and all the rest of the crowd, 30.000 strong.......I feel so sooorrry for the lot...I may start crying........I may need some valium..........
The hunt was on yesterday for three terrorists who escaped a massive security cordon after a bloody rampage that left 22 people dead, amid fears of even worse terror to come. The three terrorists were among the four who held foreign hostages at the Oasis Compound in the Golden Belt area in Alkhobar. While their leader was captured in an early morning swoop on the compound by special forces, three of them escaped the dragnet under cover of darkness on Sunday morning. The trio then seized another car in a residential area of Dammam and pursued their flight, witnesses said. âThree armed men dressed in black sports gear waved guns and took my car in Dammam where they abandoned a pickup truck,â Sultan Al-Otaibi said. âIt happened Sunday about 3 a.m. when my neighbor Nashaat, a Palestinian mechanic, was driving the car,â he said. This means the gunmen who had taken dozens of people hostage and slit the throats of nine people had disappeared well before troops launched an assault at 5.30 a.m. on a building in the compound where the militants had been holed up since Saturday.
Yesterday afternoon security officials received word that the three wanted fugitives were hiding in the Salman Al-Farsy Mosque on Dhahran Street in Alkhobar. The mosque and its vicinity were immediately cordoned off. The adjacent street was closed to the traffic for a few minutes and shops nearby were asked to close their doors. However, by that time the attackers had fled. The muezzin of the mosque, Nurul Huda, told Arab News that around 4.30 p.m. security forces surrounded the mosque and some officers entered his room on the premises. âThey just asked me to stay in my room and left locking the door from outside.â He did not hear gunshots and said he was not aware anyone other than the imam, Mazen Al-Tamimi, was on the premises. The police questioned and later detained the imam, who is alleged to have harbored the three terrorists. The imam, who lost one leg in Bosnia where he went to fight against the Serbs, was described as quiet and introvert.
The police continued their search of the area, but withdrew when they realized that the gunmen had escaped. There had also been exchange of gunfire between the fugitives and security forces on the Old Airport Road near SCECO Sub-Station. Residents in an adjacent housing compound, Mohawis, confirmed that they heard gunshots in the early hours of Sunday. It appears that the men were intercepted by a small patrol nearby and opened fire on security personnel trying to stop them and got away. President George W. Bush yesterday called Crown Prince Abdullah to offer his condolences on the deadly attacks, while congratulating him on his governmentâs handling of the bloody rampage, a spokeswoman said. âThe president expressed his condolences on the loss of life in the terrorist attack,â White House spokeswoman Pamela Stevens said. âHe congratulated the crown prince on the way that the Saudis dealt with the attack. He reaffirmed his commitment to the global war on terror and to assisting Saudi Arabia in dealing with these kinds of Al-Qaeda attacks,â she said. Australia and Britain have led warnings of worse to come in the Kingdom after Saturdayâs attacks which also targeted two oil company office blocks. The Times of London said intelligence agencies feared a âspectacular attackâ, listing key oil installations or the King Fahd Causeway as possible targets. âWe continue to believe that terrorists remain determined to carry out further attacks in Saudi Arabia, and that these may be in the final stages of preparation,â the Foreign Office said Sunday, advising against all but essential travel to the Kingdom. âThe threat includes, but is not limited to, residential compounds and diplomatic and other official premises.â
Posted by: Anonymous4617 ||
06/01/2004 5:43:46 AM ||
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Here's a suggestion for next time, boys. If you want to actually catch them, setup your ambush at any nearby mosque.
It was the most terrifying moment of Shadiâs life when he encountered the three fugitive terrorists in the small hours of Sunday in Dammam. Shadi, a Palestinian, was returning home from late-night shopping in Dammam. As he approached his home in the Tobaishi area and slowed his car three gunmen blocked the way and asked him to step out of his car. âI was absolutely terrified. It was a nightmare and I thought I was going to die,â he said.
The three fugitives, seeing his anxiety, tried to calm him down. âThey started to explain their mission, but my mind was so numb that I could not comprehend what they were saying,â he said. âMy initial fear was that they were going to take me hostage and I asked them not to. I said if they wanted they could kill me,â Shadi said. He said he was more worried for his father than himself as his father was a heart patient. âHad they taken me as a hostage my father would not have survived the shock.â
He could recall scraps of their conversation. âThey said that they were not terrorists but mujahideen and were fighting American imperialism and Zionism. âWe donât want to hurt ordinary people; our targets are Americans and Westerners,â they told me.â After some 15 minutes of this, they took his car, a 1992 Caprice, and left. âThey looked calm and unfazed,â he said. It was only afterward that the whole incident sunk in. âI was trembling, my mouth went dry and I couldnât stand still,â he said. Once he recovered a little, he called the police.
Meanwhile a Christian Arab who was held captive in the Oasis Compound has described how he lied to the terrorists about his faith and got away with it. Nizar Hajazeen, a Jordanian software businessman who was at the Tower hotel during the hostage drama, said the militants lectured him about Islam. Hajazeen, 32, had tried to call a cab to go to work on Saturday but the phone lines were jumbled. âI went down and the Filipino receptionist told me there were terrorists in the compound and gunshots were heard,â he said. He tried to help security guards close the hotel entrance gate but the lock did not work and a manager recommended he hide, Hajazeen said. âI went to the room of a Jordanian colleague. Someone banged violently on the door. We opened and there were two men, one with a machinegun, and another with a revolver. They were wearing black track suits,â he said, adding that one had a wounded arm. Both were in their twenties. âThey asked us if we were Arab or Westerners. We told them: âWeâre Arabâ. âOne then asked if I was a Christian or a Muslim. I told him we were Muslims and showed him my colleagueâs Qurâan as proof. I told him we supported them and that we were against America and Europe. I had to say that.â
Posted by: Anonymous4617 ||
06/01/2004 5:48:42 AM ||
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a 1992 Caprice
Last of the big Detroit Iron a choice for terrorists everywhere.
#3
"Our cause is just. Now give us your f-cking car!"
I thought this was just a war against "American imperialism and Zionism"! You mean it's really a war against other stuff? Like it's important to Moslem extremists whether you're a Christian or a Moslem? It's not just politics after all? Wow. Where's the trust . . .
#5
"After some 15 minutes of this,they took his car..."
Let's see,no hostages as human shields described,the 3 terrorists who are supposed to be fleeing from being surrounded can casually spend 15 minutes trying to convert a total stranger.This had better be account of a second car,after first one was dumped,because if this is how terrorists grabbed first car,it means the fix is/was in.
Posted by: Stephen ||
06/01/2004 20:01 Comments ||
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A nationwide manhunt is under way in Saudi Arabia for at least three Islamic militants who evaded capture after a bloody 25-hour hostage siege in Khobar. Police have set up checkpoints to catch the gunmen who killed 22 people and took about 50 foreigners hostage. Officials say the groupâs leader was wounded and captured, but that the others escaped using hostages as human shields and then hijacking a car. But one hostage has claimed security forces allowed the gunman to escape.
The Saudi Interior Ministry says the foreigners who were killed came from Britain, Egypt, India, Italy, the Philippines, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sweden, and the US. It said 25 people of different nationalities were wounded.
VICTIMSâ NATIONALITIES
Eight Indians
Three Filipinos
Three Saudis
Two Sri Lankans
One American
One Italian
One Swede (Australian)
One South African
One Briton
One Egyptian
The Interior Ministry said 41 hostages were freed on Sunday morning when Saudi commandos stormed the Oasis residential compound, which houses company executives. In all, 22 people were killed. Thirteen people were gunned down on Saturday, and nine hostages were killed after they reportedly tried to escape during the night. A staff member from the compound has relayed an account from a freed hostage who said a deal was done in which the gunmen were allowed to escape in exchange for not blowing up the building. That version of events has not been confirmed, but BBC Middle East correspondent Paul Wood says questions are being asked about exactly what did happen.
1. Al-Khobar Petroleum Centre: Four gunmen arrive at 0715 Saturday, shoot at guards, enter building and fire at employees.
2. Arab Petroleum Investments Corp: Gunmen shoot British employee dead in his car at gate.
3. Oasis compound: Gunmen enter compound and take about 50 people hostage on sixth floor of hotel building. At 0530 on Sunday, Saudi forces land on roof and storm building. Nine hostages are found dead, 41 are released. Three militants escape, one is arrested.
The Saudi ambassador to Britain, Prince Turki al-Faisal, has rejected any idea of collusion between the attackers and the security forces and insisted the authorities were fighting terror groups using all means available. He told the BBCâs Today programme that the attackers go for the softest targets and if they really did have helpers in positions of authority they would be able to attack much more high-profile targets. Security sources said a car the militants used to escape had been found abandoned on the outskirts of the nearby city of Damman.
The UK ambassador to Saudi Arabia has warned that more attacks are likely. Sherard Cowper Coles said there was no intelligence about specific threats, but that a picture was emerging of scores of militants actively planning attacks of the kind seen in Khobar. Britain is advising against all but essential travel to Saudi Arabia, but has not yet followed the US in telling its citizens to leave. An audiotape posted on an Islamic website claimed the attack for al-Qaeda. "We will cleanse the Arabian peninsula of infidels," the tape said.
Posted by: tipper ||
06/01/2004 1:11:23 AM ||
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The lid didn't stay on nearly as long as the Saudis would've preferred, I'm sure.
"Stormy Sunday..." When it stormed and stormed and the TV crew showed up and they stormed some more and the helicopter came and then some more storming and then... and then... and then, "Nothing to see here. Move along. Turn off that camera, now! Our friends The, um, caterer is leaving and he's, uh, camera-shy."
#2
The Saudi ambassador to Britain, Prince Turki al-Faisal, has rejected any idea of collusion between the attackers and the security forces and insisted the authorities were fighting terror groups using all means available.
Remember, folks, this is the same Prince Turki al-Faisal who had suspicious links to 9-11. Do not trust him as far as you can throw him.
Now, after papers were served on Turki several weeks ago, the Saudi ambassador will be at the heart of it. Legal papers in the case obtained by The Observer make it clear that the allegations are serious and lengthy. Many centre around Turki's role as head of the Saudi intelligence agency. He held the post for 25 years before being replaced in 2001 just before the attacks on New York.
Turki admits to meeting bin Laden four or five times in the 1980s, when the Saudi-born terrorist was being supported by the West in Afghanistan. Turki also admits meeting Taliban leader Mullah Omar in 1998. He says he was seeking to extradite bin Laden at the request of the United States.
However, the legal papers tell a different story. Based on sworn testimony from a Taliban intelligence chief called Mullah Kakshar, they allege that Turki had two meetings in 1998 with al-Qaeda. They say that Turki helped seal a deal whereby al-Qaeda would not attack Saudi targets. In return, Saudi Arabia would make no demands for extradition or the closure of bin Laden's network of training camps. Turki also promised financial assistance to Mullah Omar. A few weeks after the meetings, 400 new pick-up vehicles arrived in Kandahar, the papers say.
Kakshar's statement also says that Turki arranged for donations to be made directly to al-Qaeda and bin Laden by a group of wealthy Saudi businessmen. "Mullah Kakshar's sworn statement implicates Prince Turki as the facilitator of these money transfers in support of the Taliban, al-Qaeda and international terrorism," the papers said.
Turki's link to one of al-Qaeda's top money- launderers, Mohammed Zouaydi, who lived in Saudi Arabia from 1996 to 2001, is also exposed. Zouaydi acted as the accountant for the Faisal branch of the Saudi royal family that includes Turki. Zouaydi, who is now in jail in Spain, is also accused of being al-Qaeda's top European financier. He distributed more than $1 million to al- Qaeda units, including the Hamburg cell of Mohammed Atta which plotted the World Trade Centre attack.
Finally the lawsuit alleges that Turki was "instrumental" in setting up a meeting between bin Laden and senior Iraqi intelligence agent Faruq al-Hijazi in December 1998. At that meeting it is alleged that bin Laden agreed to avenge recent American bombings of Iraqi targets and in return Iraq offered him a safe haven and gave him blank Yemeni passports.
Great eye opening research you have here. A BIG well done!
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/01/2004 1:37 Comments ||
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#4
This article from Scotsman.com goes a little further:
An employee, who had been inside the compound assessing damage, reported an account from a freed hostage he spoke to, who said security forces allowed the attackers to flee because they were killing hostages.
The former hostage said he heard a gunman say: "Let us go and weâll let the hostages go." Security forces at first refused but relented after the militants - who also threatened to blow up the building - began killing hostages, he said.
A Saudi security official, speaking on condition of anonymity, would not directly address whether the militants were allowed to escape. But he said: "Our main priority was the hostages. And those guys who ran away, we know how to find them."
#5
Mark, due to an absence of emoticons or [/sarcasm] annotation, I shall assume (and hope) you were serious. This news is quite old and I was actually hoping (for once) to get a yawn from the Ranters on this. The Turki al-Faisal article link is from over a year ago and it's original publication predates that.
However, I'm more than glad to expose just how poor of an ally the Saudis are. They may well prove to be the most dire enemy we have amongst the Middle East governments. If my post was of any help at all, I am truly glad.
#6
The Saudi 'security' forces know each and every terrorist involved, most likely on a first name basis as well!
These scheming two faced 'royal' Saudi dishrags have deceiving & plundering multi-billions off the west far too long, and that goes for their Arabian appeasing cohorts in Big Oil.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/01/2004 2:30 Comments ||
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#7
Furthermore, the recent "Muslim friendly workplace" twaddle coming Britain, when combined with how they are willing to accept al Faisal as the Saudi legate, is merely further proof of just how addlepated some of their politicians must be.
The icing on the cake is Britain's advocating sale of sophisticated weapons systems to China. I'm obliged to worry that they may have gotten into a rather bad batch of "tea."
#13
"Eight Indians + Three Filipinos + Three Saudis + Two Sri Lankans . . ."
These Moslems don't give a crap about whether the victims are actually "Westerners" or not. It's all about killing, per se, and feeling like "big guys." Don't kid yourself. They "like" it.
I think that in the WOT, it doesn't really matter how we think about such things as life, society, rule of law--it's important to understand how they think about such things (bascially, they don't think about such things). We have to understand their bottom line--if we want to win, that is. Like common criminals, the Islamic bad guys look for opportunity and some type of personal "justification." That's it. That's all. That's enough. They don't really care about "Western" this or that. They care about feeling like they're "men." (Cuz they're just pseudo-men with major issues and something to "prove.")
Sure hope the West gets real smart, real soon, about how short-sighted these guys really are. After all, the other Moslems know how short-sighted these guys really are, and they also know that being "Moslem" doesn't amount to sh-t, with them. The baddies just want power:
"They say that Turki helped seal a deal whereby al-Qaeda would not attack Saudi targets. In return, Saudi Arabia would make no demands for extradition or the closure of bin Laden's network of training camps."
Nice post, Zenster. No one can keep up on everything, so if you've got "yawn" info, just go ahead and post it.
#14
...That hostage who is making those claims better get his backside out of the KSA pronto before he's arrested for alk running.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
06/01/2004 13:43 Comments ||
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#15
Nice post, Zenster. No one can keep up on everything, so if you've got "yawn" info, just go ahead and post it.
Thank you, ex-lib. I'm rather grateful for the additional perspective that is presented here. Despite the flak and outright bullsh!t I experience while contributing what I may, please rest assured that I'll do my best to repay Fred and his crew's efforts with what I consider to be valuable information.
In a telephone conversation with this reporter, an officer in a North Korean border guard unit said, "In accordance with an order from the National Defense Commission calling for us to completely seal the border, border guard units and all the citizens of the border regions were mobilized and have been building a 2 meter high wooden fence since last month." Construction is first being done in those hard-to-patrol areas used by defectors to escape; wide-open, easily patrolled areas are being saved for later, he said. Letâs think about this. A Nork Officer MAKES A TELEPHONE CALL to the south, and shoots the breeze with a reporter. How likely is that?
The officer added, "The North Korea-China border is more that 1,000 li (about 400 km) long, and the reality is that itâs impossible to block all of it. I canât understand who would present such an absurd idea." Oh, Comrade... A message for you from the Great Leader: Could you come to the Death Camp, and bring everything in your desk?
#2
"The North Korea-China border is more that 1,000 li (about 400 km) long, and the reality is that itâs impossible to block all of it"
The main line of the Great Wall of China is 3480 kilometres. It would be far quicker to build with modern equipment and its good for tourism. Perhaps China should be building a second wall. Clearly the North Koreans aren't up to the task.
#3
People died in boxcar lots to build the Great Wall, it took the better part of a generation, it was designed to keep nomads from raiding, not to hold peasants in, and North Korea doesn't know what to do with the tourists it gets already.
This would presumably be to keep the border from leaking peasants westward, as it has ever since the early Nineties. I wouldn't be surprised if this is an installment on some sort of promise from that Beijing meeting of Kim's the other month, to stop leaking economic refugees into Manchuria or something like that.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
06/01/2004 15:02 Comments ||
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#4
But given that unfinished ziggarat in Pyongyang the NorKs call "Ryugyong Hotel", I wouldn't underestimate the juche capacity for pointless acts of inscrutable engineering.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
06/01/2004 15:05 Comments ||
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#5
You need protein to feed to the workers to build a wall. Even the Chicoms know that. The NORKS need to realize that you cannot feed workers grass and expect them build much of a wall. OTOH, maybe daily shots of wheat grass juice will help.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/01/2004 15:18 Comments ||
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#6
juche capacity for pointless acts of inscrutable engineering
#7
more targets for us to bomb,keep on buildin Kimmy!
Posted by: Shep UK ||
06/01/2004 16:31 Comments ||
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#8
Jon Shep, no bomb required. We could shoot it with a flaming arrow. Maybe they will invent chicken wire in this next century, thus eliminating the need for varnish - a vital food staple.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/01/2004 16:51 Comments ||
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#9
a 2 meter high wooden fence
I would say to use a match to escape, but they probably needed it to build the damn thing in the first place.
Posted by: Charles ||
06/01/2004 16:55 Comments ||
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#10
"2 meter high wooden fence" wont they just eat their way through this?
#12
My point was the Chinese should build the great wall of Korea since they get tourism dollars for the current wall and they want to keep the wave of North Korean peasants out.
People died in boxcar lots to build the original great wall and it took a generation. But they also built the wall 10 times longer than the Korean wall would need to be and they built it 15 meters high when three or four meters would be all that is required to keep North Korean peasants out.
The ancient Chinese also failed to use trains, cranes and earth moving equipment to get the job done.
Australia's first convicted terrorist, Jack Roche, has been sentenced to nine years' jail. Roche was facing 25 years behind bars but could been released as early as 2007. Roche was last week convicted of conspiring with Al Qaeda and Jemaah Islamiah to blow up the Israeli embassy in Canberra after changing his plea to guilty. The prosecution wanted a sentence close to the maximum, but Roche received a shortened jail term in return for information he provided to federal authorities. In handing down his decision, Judge Paul Healy said he would have sentenced Roche to 12 years, but reduced it due to the information he gave federal authorities.
Turned him, did they? I hope the info he's giving is worth it...
The information was so valuable it prompted the authorities to write a letter to Judge Healy and that letter was also taken into consideration when determining the sentence. Judge Healy admitted making his decision was difficult, with no real precedent. But he said if Roche had not decided that enough was enough, the conspiracy plot to bomb the embassy had every chance of being carried out, and therefore the sentence must be a strong deterrent to others.
Defence lawyer Hylton Quail said his client believed the information he provided to federal authorities may have assisted in the arrest of the alleged mastermind of the Bali bombings, Hambali and senior Al Qaeda member Muktar. "His co-operation has been extremely significant and very valuable to not only the Australian authorities but the American authorities," Mr Quail said. Roche showed no emotion in court, but outside Mr Quail said his client was relieved. "He's got 21 days to consider whether he wants to appeal but at the moment he hasn't made any decisions - he's reasonably happy," he said. Roche will be eligible for parole in four-and-a-half years. With time already spent in custody he may be out in three years.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 11:14:42 AM ||
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Out in 3 years!?!, I hope he gets struck by lightening or run over by a truck as soon as he walks through prison gate.
#1
a .PDF file? Yuck! At least warn us first, before our hard drives start thrashing and our computers become unresponsive for 30 seconds while the Adobe Acrobat Reader loads....
A Spanish judge issued an arrest warrant for an Algerian whose fingerprints were found on a bag linked to the Madrid terror bombings and mistaken for those of an American lawyer. The international warrant seeks Daoud Ouhnane, who lived Spain before the train bombings that killed 191 people on March 11. His prints were found on a plastic bag containing detonators of the kind used in the attack. The bag was inside a stolen van found near the suburban train station from which three of the four trains bombed on March 11 departed. Despite doubts from Spain, the FBI had concluded the prints were those of Portland, Ore. lawyer Brandon Mayfield, a convert to Islam. He was arrested on May 6 and held as a material witness. Spanish forensics police made their own match on May 20 and Mayfield was released. The FBI acknowledged it erred and apologized to him. Issuing the warrant Friday, the judge also said DNA samples taken from a rural cottage where the bombs used in the attack were believed to have been assembled have also been traced to Ouhnane.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 8:22:02 PM ||
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Attorneys for suspected members of a Turkish al-Qaida cell accused in last year's suicide bombings in Istanbul acknowledged Tuesday that several of their clients traveled to Afghanistan and Chechnya, but denied they were linked to al-Qaida or the Istanbul attacks.
"Nope. Nope. Never happened."
On Tuesday, 12 suspects in the case appeared before an Istanbul court as part of preliminary hearings in the trial of 69 suspects accused in the bombings. The 12 are being charged with belonging to an armed group and are not key figures in the case. All 69 defendants are to appear before the court this week, although the defendants will not testify and the court is primarily dealing with technical issues, such as procedural arguments from attorneys. Attorneys acknowledged that at least half of the suspects in the courthouse Tuesday had traveled to Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Chechnya, but denied they had any connection to the November attacks that killed more than 60 people. "Their purpose in going (to Pakistan and Afghanistan) was humanitarian," said attorney Ersin Alakesen, representing suspects Mustafa Atlihan, Ahmet Demir and Nurettin Gunduz. "They didn't have anything to do with the bombings or with al-Qaida."
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 8:19:08 PM ||
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I'm not sure if that last sentence belongs there, it doesn't seem to fit.
"We hope that a hypothetical collaboration between Islamic and ETA groups would not include a suicide attack." A second document, which the government also had access to, showed a taped conversation between another ETA terrorist, Juana Chaos, and a friend. He talks of potentially working with "fundamentalists".
I'll bet he mentions the fact that the "fundamentalists" have access to "funding".
Aznar's government insisted in the wake of the Madrid bombings that ETA were responsible â despite growing evidence Islamic terrorists organised the attacks.
Interesting
Posted by: Steve ||
06/01/2004 11:03:10 AM ||
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It's a natural alliance, so it will be one. Yet another reason why appeasement never works.
via FT.com
By Vincent Boland in Ankara - June 1 2004
A high-profile trial in Turkey involving alleged al-Qaeda terrorism was postponed in dramatic circumstances yesterday because recent reforms to the countryâs criminal justice system abolished the court where it was due to take place. The case involves 69 suspects accused of carrying out a series of bomb attacks in Istanbul last November that killed 61 people and injured more than 600. The attacks were the worst in Turkey since the end of the war against Kurdish separatists in the late 1990s, and Turkish security forces blamed al-Qaeda.
But the trial was mired in confusion last night after defence lawyers successfully argued that the state security court where it was to take place had no jurisdiction to hear it. The judge suspended the trial after the defendants who were in court refused to testify. Turkeyâs state security courts, which heard cases of terrorism, sedition and other serious crimes, were abolished last month as part of a series of constitutional reforms inspired by Turkeyâs drive to join the European Union.
The postponement is an embarrassment for the government because a new court system with the authority to hear cases of serious crime, including terrorism, has not yet been established. The justice ministry declined to comment yesterday, but legal experts said the trial was unlikely to resume until a new court system was in place. The trial of the suspects is set to be the most significant involving alleged terrorism since the 1999 conviction of Abdullah Ocalan, leader of the PKK Kurdish separatist organisation.
The bombs exploded at two synagogues, the British consulate and the Turkey headquarters of the HSBC banking group. Roger Short, the British consul-general in Istanbul, was among those killed. Some of the suspects in the bombings have not yet been arrested, and only 12 were brought to the court in Istanbul yesterday for the start of the trial. They are accused of attempting to overthrow the state and of membership of an illegal organisation.
The postponement comes as Turkey prepares a massive security operation ahead of this monthâs Nato summit in Istanbul, which will be attended by President George W. Bush and other world leaders. Whoa, how do you say, "Hey, dood, is that egg all over yer face?" in Turkish?
Posted by: .com ||
06/01/2004 2:39:16 AM ||
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Whoa, how do you say, "Hey, dood, is that egg all over yer face?" in Turkish?
Murat
Posted by: john ||
06/01/2004 9:10 Comments ||
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Former Chicago gang member Jose Padilla is a trained terrorist who met with top al-Qaida leaders, discussed detonating a nuclear bomb in the United States and accepted an assignment to use natural gas to blow up high-rise apartment buildings, the Justice Department alleged Tuesday. The disclosure by Deputy Attorney General James Comey, based on interrogations with Padilla and other suspected al-Qaida operatives, came two years after the arrest of the suspected "dirty bomber." It was meant to answer criticism that the government overreached in arresting a U.S. citizen and denying him normal access to the court system.
Comey said President Bush's decision to classify Padilla as an enemy combatant is supported by what was learned through the interrogation process. He described Padilla as "a soldier of our enemy, a trained, funded and equipped terrorist" who accepted "an assignment to kill hundreds of innocent men, women and children." Comey told a news conference there was no connection between release of the information and last week's criticism that his boss, Attorney General John Ashcroft, overstated the possibility of an imminent al-Qaida attack on the United States. Nor, he said, was the department attempting to influence the Supreme Court — currently considering whether the war on terrorism gives the government power to seize Americans such as Padilla without charging them. One other American citizen is being held as an enemy combatant.
Steven Shapiro, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union, called the timing of the public release "curious at best," with the Supreme Court expected to rule on the legality of the detention in the next few weeks. "At the very least, it suggests that the Justice Department is feeling pressure to explain its unprecedented decision to detain U.S. citizens as enemy combatants," Shapiro said.
A seven-page summary of interrogations of Padilla and other detainees alleged he planned the attacks with the most senior lieutenants of Osama bin Laden. The al-Qaida operatives weren't certain whether Padilla would carry out the apartment attacks or try to release radiation from a "dirty bomb" after arriving back in the United States on May 8, 2002. He was arrested after landing in Chicago. Comey and a written summary by the Justice Department said Padilla and an accomplice were to locate as many as three high-rise buildings that had natural gas. They were to rent two apartments in each building, seal all the openings, turn on the gas, and set timers to detonate the buildings simultaneously at a later time. The information alleged that al-Qaida operations chief Khalid Shaikh Mohammed "wanted Padilla to hit targets in New York City, although Florida and Washington, D.C. were discussed as well. Padilla had discretion in the selection of the apartments." But Comey said other detainees gave different accounts, identifying possible locations for the attacks as Chicago, Texas and California. Comey said Padilla originally suggested to his handlers that he detonate a nuclear bomb that he thought he could make from instructions on the Internet, or that he set off a radiological bomb. However, the al-Qaida officials wanted him to focus on the apartment plot instead.
One of Padilla's lawyers, Andrew Patel, characterized Comey's information as "an opening statement without a trial. We are in the same position we've been in for two years, where the government says bad things about Mr. Padilla and there's no forum for him to defend himself." The information released by Comey had been requested by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Hatch said in a statement, "The information released today confirms the very real and dangerous threat posed by Jose Padilla." Padilla, by his own admission, accepted his terrorist assignment, Comey said. But the detainee "continues to maintain that he was not in the United States for that reason, and he was never really planning to go through with it," Comey added.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 7:42:58 PM ||
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I have an idea. If the ACLU gets some leftist Federal judge to let him out, the ACLU attorneys who whined about Padilla can "volunteer" to be "Human Shields" at various key landmarks. So if a dirty bomb is set off, they will finally understand as they twitch and die of radiation sickness why us regular people were so concerned about Padilla.
#2
Blowing up apartment buildings, eh? Sounds like Padilla (who used to go by an Arabic name - something like Muhijaz, if I recall) has taken a page out of the manual the Chechens have been using in Moscow and other places.
#3
What this article and others like it avoid stating is:
"...Documents released by the department claimed that Padilla and an al-Qaida accomplice were to enter the United States through Mexico or Puerto Rico..." http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/040601/w060144.html
Calling George Bush! Calling Tom Ridge! Not everyone crossing our porous southern border are nice Mexican families looking for a better life. Duh.
Padilla's Muslim name is Abdullah al-Muhajir, btw.
Orrin Hatch, who is quoted in this article, should be dumped by Utah voters for being a 2 faced RINO politician. Hatch is Senate Justice Committee Chairman, which should mean he should have at least a passing interest in upholding our laws. However, this twit is a big booster of giving taxpayer supported college education to illegal aliens, which subverts our immigration laws and serves to attract more illegal border crossings...ie. the DREAM Act, SB 1545
Posted by: rex ||
06/01/2004 22:36 Comments ||
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From now on we should just summarily shoot unlawful combatants on the field. No fuss, no muss, no Geneova convention, no UN, no ALCU, and no trials. I say we turn Mr. Padilla loose with much fanfare in NYC, leave his orange brig jumber on him, and let nature take it course.
#5
Good suggestion, Sarge! I'll second your motion. POW's won't give us any valuable info in the future now that they have to be treated with TLC.
Posted by: rex ||
06/02/2004 0:43 Comments ||
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I remember the warnings after 9/11 here in NYC about the possibility of terrorists renting apartments and then blowing them up. Back then it sounded to me like paranoid hoopla. Now, though. Maybe our intelligence folk were a lot better than we gave them credit for, because this was long before anyone had ever heard of Padilla.
The FBI office in Denver has received "numerous" calls about the seven people believed to be associated with al-Qaeda pictured Wednesday in newspapers. Monique Kelso, spokeswoman for the Denver office, wouldnât characterize the calls as "sightings," but at least one was reported as such. Samuel Mac, manager of the Dennyâs in Avon, isnât happy with the response he got from the FBI when he reported that two of them ate at his restaurant Wednesday. When he called the FBI in Washington, D.C., Mac said the man who answered the telephone said he had to call the Denver office and declined to take down any of the information.
Don't the wanted posters say, "Call your local FBI office"?
When he called the Denver office, he was shuttled to voice mail because the agents were busy, Mac said. It was five hours before a seemingly uninterested agent called back. (incredible!)
More likely burned out from answering about a thousand calls.
Mac said two men - he subsequently identified them from their photographs as Adnan G. El Shukrijumah and Abderraouf Jdey - came into Dennyâs, which is just off Interstate 70, about 8 p.m. One ordered a chicken sandwich and a salad, the other just a salad, Mac said. They were demanding, rude and obnoxious, he said. They said they were from Iran and were driving from New York to the West Coast. When the FBI agent called him back, she took a few notes and said she would pass the information along to the field agents, according to Mac. Kelso said the Denver FBI office has received at least a dozen calls about the pictures. The calls are all taken seriously and "we follow up on every lead," she said. But she said the FBI has no reason to believe any of the seven are in Colorado or traveling through.
Bad answer, you don't even know for sure if they are in the country.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/01/2004 12:44:15 AM ||
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This should come as no surprise to anyone who has had to deal with the FBI before.
Seriously, you'd have an easier time convincing a Saudi official that they have a terror problem. Sadly, I'm not joking or exaggerating. Anyone else with experience with the FBI want to chime in?
A captured al Qaeda leader wanted American-born terror suspect Adam Gadahn to take part in a plot to blow up fuel depots outside Baltimore, a classified FBI document says. But Gadahn, a convert to Islam whose Muslim wife was expecting a baby, was not eager to participate in a "martyrdom" - suicide - operation, al Qaeda chief Khalid Shaikh Mohammed said in the May 2003 document, which was obtained by Newsweek...Al Qaeda needed operatives who held U.S. passports and thus began recruiting native-born Americans, Newsweek says. No one knows where Gadahn is, but the magazine says he lived in Afghanistan, where he befriended the "American Taliban," John Walker Lindh, offering to help Lindh find a Muslim wife - the sister of Gadahnâs wife. "Soft targets" and American Muslim converts, nasty.
Posted by: rex ||
06/01/2004 1:53:26 AM ||
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A big boom in Baltimore would also pull a lot of fire and law enforcement resources away from Washington, Philly, and even some from NYC...
As they settled into first class on American Airlines Flight 1438 from Chicago to Miami, they were supposed to be the last line of defense against terrorists - two highly trained U.S. air marshals who would sit unnoticed among the ordinary travelers but spring into action at the first sign of trouble.
Imagine their chagrin when a fellow passenger coming down the aisle suddenly boomed out, "Oh, I see we have air marshals on board!"
The incident, detailed in an intelligence brief, is an example of something that happens all too often, marshals say. The element of surprise may be crucial to their mission, but it turns out theyâre "as easy to identify as a uniformed police officer," the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association said in a complaint to Congress.
The problem is not security leaks. Itâs the clothes. In an era when "dressing down" is the travelerâs creed, air marshals must show up in jackets and ties, hair cut short, bodies buffed, shoes shined. Jack Webb would be proud, but the marshals say they stand out like shampooed show dogs among the pound pups.
And the tipoff provided by their appearance is magnified by a set of boarding procedures that make them conspicuous.Since theyâre armed, the marshals canât go through the initial security screening with the rest of the passengers. Instead using the entry points set aside for airport employees, however, the marshals often must go through the "exit" lanes - marching against the flow of arriving passengers, at times in full view of travelers.
"They lose the advantage" of being undercover, said John Amat, a spokesman for the marshals within the federal law officers group. Officials with the Federal Air Marshal Service, however, defended their sartorial standards. "Professional demeanor, attire and attitude gain respect," spokesman David M. Adams said. "If a guy pulls out a gun and heâs got a tattoo on his arm and (is wearing) shorts, Iâm going to question whether heâs a law-enforcement officer."
As for the boarding procedures, Adams said, the agency is working to address the problems. Air marshals "are not undercover like Serpico," he added, referring to the legendary New York City detective. "The director refers to them as `discreet.â"
The air marshal service has grown from about 30 officers at the time of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks to several thousand today, operating under a $600 million annual budget.
With the expansion has come an infusion of federal law-enforcement culture. The director of the air marshals, Thomas D. Quinn, who took over in January 2002, spent 20 years with the Secret Service.
"Secret Service people are notoriously known for being snappy dressers," said Capt. Steve Luckey, security chairman for the Air Line Pilots Association. And it was after Quinn took over, marshals said, that the strict rules on dress and grooming were instituted, including a ban on beards, long hair and jeans.
But todayâs airliner is a come-as-you-are environment. Even "if you go in first class, you see the whole gamut," Luckey said, from people in cut-off jeans to those in suit and tie. "I think you can go overboard with the professionalism. ... The mission dictates flexibility and some relaxed dress standards."
Many marshals interviewed - who requested anonymity because they are not allowed to talk to the media - agree. What makes them uneasy is the prospect of being spotted by terrorists and disabled or killed before they can react.
"This is what I foresee," said one marshal, a two-year veteran. "Two of us get on the plane and weâve been under surveillance the whole time. Thereâs a minimum of four bad guys. ... My partner goes to the bathroom and they come after me with a sharp pen, stab me in the neck or in the brain and take my weapon," he continued. "When my partner comes out, they shoot him. Then theyâve got 80 rounds of ammunition and two weapons."
Adams called such a scenario "highly unlikely." Yet a congressional General Accounting Office study of a two-year period from 2001 to 2003 found an average of about one case a week in which marshals reported their cover was blown.
The passenger on American Flight 1438 told the marshals "he picked them out because of their attire and the fact that they were on board before the other passengers," an agency report on the Nov. 15, 2003, incident said. The report did not say whether the government took action against the man, although others who have outed air marshals have been prosecuted.
One marshal with previous military and law-enforcement experience said that "a bad guy on a plane can quickly narrow the pool of potential marshals. Theyâre not wearing jeans, theyâre not wearing cargo pants. ... There will not be an air marshal who is unshaven. You eliminate the unknown element."
Additional clues to their identity can be gleaned by observing airport check-in and boarding, several marshals said.
At the ticket counter, marshals must present an official leather credential case that is much bigger than a driverâs license and looks different than a passport. "You can stand 20 feet away from the ticket counter and see it," said the marshal with military experience. Ticket agents sometimes hold it up to the light to study the hologram on the picture, he added.
After they get their tickets, marshals go to the boarding gate. At their home airports, they can use a special access card to bypass the security checkpoint. But at other airports, they must go through the passenger exit lane. "Everybody sees you standing there," one marshal said. "Everybody sees you show your ID. They see you are being escorted through an exit lane, bypassing security."
At the boarding gate, the marshals must again show their credentials to the airline agent. Then, because marshals have to brief flight crews in person, at least one team member has to board before the other passengers. That often takes place in full view. "You see physically fit men in their mid-30s getting on an airplane early, and you know theyâre not doing that because they need more time to get down the jet way," said Patricia Friend, president of the Association of Flight Attendants.
In the meantime, some air marshals have found ways to adapt. The marshal with military experience said he deliberately acts as the more visible member of his team. He walks down the jet way before the passengers. If someone stares at him, he stares back. By becoming the focus of attention, he figures heâs helping protect his partnerâs anonymity.
"If they come after me first, he might be able to save my bacon," the marshal. "At least one guy may be able to do something to defend the aircraft."
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/01/2004 1:29:43 AM ||
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Forgive me for stating the obvious, but isn't it possible for these guys to check their weapons with a screened staff member who will transport the firearms undercover into the aircraft and reunite them with their proper owners once they've undergone regular boarding procedures?
#2
There are rules, which are enforced, against joking about bombs on airliners. There ought to be similar rules against commenting aloud about the presence of air marshals.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 2:35 Comments ||
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There are rules, which are enforced, against joking about bombs on airliners. There ought to be similar rules against commenting aloud about the presence of air marshals.
Works for me. If I'm flying with them, I want their cover to be intact.
#4
How about making the undercover officers ACTUALLY UNDERCOVER? I think that works better than arresting otherwise law-abiding citizens. Remember, the terrorists are the bad guys who need to go to jail, not us.
#5
How about just arming the air crews and let them protect the aircraft and passengers? Dismantle the TSA road blocks and let the people in the crosshairs defend themselves.
#6
How about letting me carry my 45? If the U. S. Army says I'm competant enough to carry one why not the TSA?
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
06/01/2004 7:27 Comments ||
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How about everyone on the plane gets a stun gun, ala the Simpson's family therapy clinic episode? It will cut down on the dude next to you hogging the arm rest.
Posted by: ed ||
06/01/2004 7:31 Comments ||
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I think the air marshall ought to be openly carrying a street-sweeper loaded with slugs
#9
I sympathize with their dilemma. My own physique and appearance often attracts much attention whenever I fly. I have the tight shave and a similar haircut to your average Marine. In fact, before a flight overseas I now let my hair grow out and do not shave the morning of the flight. It is unnerving for people to ask what branch of the military I serve in (especially since I have never served in any such capacity).
The Air Marshals do stand out. I can often narrow down who they are as well (though I would never be an ass-munch and say something). Even some operators stand out in the airport. Note to special operators flying commercial airlines to and from your theater of operations: Lose the Rolex and tactical watches.
#10
DanM, Deacon Blues, the feds tend to react extremely negatively to the idea that the populace is capable of defending itself. We require federals to defend us...you must understand we're not qualified to protect ourselves. We haven't the proper certifications, nor have we passed the confidence course at Quantico. Why, if the idea got around that the American public didn't need the feds, what kind of negotiating position would they have come next fiscal year's budget?
#11
How 'bout we just let them wear the uniform of the airline they're flying? "Nothing to see here, just a pilot and a flight attendant dead-heading back to the home hub..."
#14
About 6-8 mos. after 911, I was standing in Orlando Airport waving goodbye to my in-laws (no comments,please) as they weaved their way through the switchback system they were using when all of sudden came a group of lean, mean, tanned, close cropped hair types in dark business suits. Now, at first I thought they were secret service since I have seen them collect at BWI in transit (same motif)but they turned out to be AMs. How do I know because that is how THEY introduced themselves to the security people in front of at least 200 passengers in the weaving line!!! They were late (traffic situation) and had to make their flights (there were 4 of them), they showed their ordanance, IDs and asked for a golf cart to take them to the plane. All of this was fine by me - I prefer letting everyone know, even the potential terrorist in the crowd, that this flight is protected. Of course, it puts the AMs in a pretty vulnerable position having their cover blown but how nuts would you have to be (or how smart would you have to be) to still go ahead with whatever plan you may have? Do you speed up when you see a police car sitting on the shoulder knowing it can't outrun you? Or do you slow down and become a good boy?
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
06/01/2004 14:53 Comments ||
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Get Dennis Hopper in there, he'll take care of the problem.
"Are you lookin' at me?... ARE YOU LOOKIN' AT ME??!"
#16
Actually, the solution is pretty easy: relax the dress code. Polo shirt, workout shoes (tacticals), dockers trousers, ball cap, and a tweed or light weave sport coat. Carry a laptop bag for stowing under the seat in front of you (and keep the hardware there).
Comfy, operable, and doesnt stand out - about as generic as you are going to get.
As for the gates - there is no reason for them to go thru security. They should be coming in the entrances to the airport used by employees and their badges and credentials checked there. They come in by way of the cargo spaces, and enter from one of the "pilot lounge" restricted areas. Thats also how they leave when they get off the plane.
As for boarding, have them board when the "1K" or platinum club flyers board.
pretty simple. Too bad we are dealing with govt b-crats more concerned with appearance than function.
As for being mistaken or makred out as an op - well, you got me there. I never really thought about that since I got out of that end of the business. But years of posture, standing a certain way and in certain locations especialy aroudn windows and doors, keeping SA, good angles, etc... well I guess I am probably painting myself pretty well.
Since I've lost my extra "quit smoking" (and desk-jockey) weight and been in the weight room and on the track (and doing oblique and straight v-ups, dive-bombers and hindu squats), I've been pegged as "military" (I was once upon a time) and been asked if I was an AM. I was pretty proud in that I was thinking it was my regained phsyique,
But looking at it realistically, it must be the high and tight, and a grey suit with a plain white shirt and dark tie. Never considered it before - when I was "working" I wore my hair pretty long at times, but now that I am not "working", I keep it short.
Good points. Maybe I'll grow a moustache and dress a little messier next time I fly.
Saw this in my own email a while back, but now its in the mainstream print newspapers. Denver Post to be exact. Visit the link to read the actual letter - below is the Denver Postâs editorial intro
EDITORâS NOTE: The Monday after Easter, Lt. Col. Mike Strobl noticed a news release about the death of a Marine from Colorado named Chance Phelps. The 19-year- old was from Clifton, near Stroblâs hometown of Grand Junction. Phelps, a lanky high-school football player who also had lived in Craig, was killed in action April 9, about a month after arriving in Iraq. Strobl, a Marine based in Quantico, Va., offered to accompany the body to Dubois, Wyo., where Phelps had lived as a child and his father resides. Strobl had never visited Wyoming, never heard of Dubois. He went to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, the first leg of a somber, proud journey. A veteran of Desert Storm, Strobl sent an e-mail about his experience to colleagues. Since then, his story of kindness and loss has appeared on numerous websites. Here, partially summarized, is his story.
Posted by: OldSpook ||
06/01/2004 12:33:09 AM ||
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President Megawati Sukarnoputri on Monday denied ordering the expulsion of the American head of a think tank that assessed Indonesia's separatists conflicts. Sidney Jones has said she may have to leave Indonesia by June 10 if authorities refuse to extend her visa due to the Belgian-based group's critical reports of the government. Jones said the national intelligence agency chief had complained that her International Crisis Group published false reports that had damaged the country's image. At a rare news conference, Megawati said: "I never ... expelled this person, Sidney Jones. I believe the case you are referring to is being carried out according to government procedures."
Oh. Well. That's different then...
The think tank opened its office in Jakarta in 2000 and has reported on the rising threat of Islamic militants in the world's most populous Muslim nation, separatist conflicts in Aceh and Papua, sectarian violence in Central Sulawesi and the country's struggle to reform its police and military. Its reports have raised questions about the government's initial failure to crack down on radical militants and the heavy-handed tactics employed to combat opponents in Aceh and Papua provinces. Since Megawati took power in July 2001, Megawati's administration has jailed a number of critics and has tacitly encouraged pro-government business tycoons to sue journalists and media outlets that reported on official abuses.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 8:09:26 PM ||
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KUALA LUMPUR - Libyans involved in a nuclear weapons programme for their country were secretly trained in Malaysia under directions from Sri Lankan businessman Buhary Syed Abu Tahir, Malaysian investigators have said.
Tahir, the suspected middleman in a nuclear parts black market network run by Pakistan's chief nuclear scientist, also brought in two foreigners to provide expertise on producing components, the probe alleged. The findings of the Malaysian investigation led to Tahir's arrest in Kuala Lumpur on Friday under the Internal Security Act (ISA), which allows the detention of suspects without charges or trial. Tahir will be held at the Kamunting detention centre in Perak for two years.
At least
Although Tahir's alleged clandestine operation was first publicly reported by Malaysia in February, he was not arrested then because of ongoing investigations. 'When a report about him was made that was based on evidence in hand then, there was no evidence on why he should be arrested,' Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, in China for an official visit, said on Saturday. 'But investigations continued. The security people now felt he should be arrested.'
I figured he was under unofficial house arrest when his family just dropped out of sight last year. They were not in any hurry to make it official cuz he wasn't going anywhere.
The Sri Lankan, who is married to a Malaysian, was arrested under the ISA because his actions could be detrimental to the country, Datuk Seri Abdullah said. In Perak, Deputy Internal Security Minister Noh Omar said Tahir was detained because his activities opened Malaysia 'to possible threats of attack by the big powers and to economic sanctions'.
Gee, ya think somebody pointed that out to them?
United States President George W. Bush earlier this year described Tahir as 'chief financial officer and money launderer' for Pakistani scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan, who has admitted leaking nuclear secrets to Iran, Libya and North Korea.
In February Malaysia said Scomi Precision Engineering (Scope), then a subsidiary of Scomi Group controlled by Datuk Seri Abdullah's son Kamaluddin, was used without its knowledge to make components which it is believed could be made into nuclear centrifuges in Libya. Scope has since been sold. Malaysia has given alleged details of the nuclear black market, including how Tahir contracted items from Scope. The report quoted him as saying Dr Khan, the founder of Pakistan's nuclear programme, arranged for enriched uranium to be sent to Libya and sold nuclear centrifuge parts to Iran.
Among others
Dr Khan, a national hero, was pardoned by President Pervez Musharraf. The US State Department said it was 'delighted' by Tahir's arrest. 'We think his arrest is a major step and it will serve as a catalyst to international efforts to shut down the Khan network.' Malaysia did not give details of how many Libyans were trained or when.
'Tahir arranged secretly for technicians from Libya to undergo training on handling quality control machines that were part of Libya's nuclear weapons programme,' Datuk Noh said on Saturday.
Bet the Libyan's gave us that info.
He also said two foreign experts were brought in to oversee parts manufacturing.
He did not name them, but the government's report in February named experts from Switzerland, Germany, Turkey and Britain. It named said a Swiss, Mr Friedrich Tinner, prepared centrifuge components and that his son Urs Friedrich Tinner was employed as a consultant by Tahir and actively involved in Scope's Shah Alam factory.
They'd be the project managers and quality control experts. If I recall correctly, they kept all blueprints under tight control and didn't let Scope see anything beyond "need to know".
Posted by: Steve ||
06/01/2004 12:13:03 PM ||
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Manila, , Jun. 1 (UPI) -- Police are investigating a bomb explosion that injured seven people outside a store in the southern Philippines Tuesday. The blast occurred in Pagadian city, some 770 kilometers (480 miles) south of Manila. Intelligence sources said they had been investigating an alleged bomb plot in Pagadian by the Muslim separatist group, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, RTHK reported.
But police chief Servando Hizon said he suspected a local criminal gang. The shop owner told police he had received a letter from an extortionist, threatening to bomb his store if he didn't pay protection money.
The MILF is a criminal gang, robbery, kidnapping and extortion rackets are how they fund themselves.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/01/2004 12:09:25 PM ||
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An alleged Philippine urban terrorist, reportedly with connections to Jemaah Islamiyah and the local affiliate terror group, Abu Sayaff, has been arrested in the southern Philiippines.
Our correspondent, Shirley Escalante, says the man identified as Aldzherar Salapuddin Jila, was allegedly trained in bomb making. He was arrested in a raid on a suspected hideout of local terrorists in the southern province of Sulu. Bomb making materials, assorted weapons and ammunition were confiscated from the hideout.
The usual "holy" relics
During interrogation he admitted his group was behind four bombings in Sulu Island since December which left four people dead.
"OK, we did it! Now put that down!"
Authorities also say the suspect was behind a bomb attack in the southern city of Zamboanga in 2002, where an American soldier was killed.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/01/2004 12:01:54 PM ||
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Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi says the United States and its coalition partners are losing the war against terrorism. Mr Abdullah has told the Asia Pacific Security Roundtable the world faces a terrorist crisis, while the response is moving from blunder to blunder. He says extremists and militants are driving the world to the brink of disaster. The Prime Minister says the global response since the September 11 attacks on the United States has alienated the Arab and Muslim world, breeding a new generation of terrorists.
Sorry, bub. Attacking New York and Washington and killing close to 3000 noncombatants alienated us. For the first time in years, some of us stood up and asked the Forbidden Question: "Why do we have to please them?" Since nothing we ever do will be enough, why should we do anything?
He says the US coalition is losing ground in a rudderless Afghanistan and in an Iraq where liberators are seen as the enemy. While not naming Australia, he said governments which had joined the US invasion were now losing popular support at home and would soon face a stiff challenge at coming elections. Mr Abdullah says in order to make the war on terrorism effective, the United States must resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, grant full sovereignty to the Iraqi people and embark on a new anti-terrorism strategy.
Actually, we've done more to help alleviate the Paleostinian conflict than any previous administration's done. Things had to get worse before they started getting better, and that involved getting rid of Yasser. He's not quite gone yet, but future generations are going to spit when they say his name. That includes future generations of Muslims. I think Yasser knows that, too.
Mr Abdullah also told the roundtable, organised by Malaysia's Institute of Strategic and International Studies (ISIS), that Islamic teachings have been corrupted to serve the militant cause. "Many Muslims refuse to acknowledge that there can be bad Muslims and that Islamic teachings have been corrupted by some groups to serve their militant cause," he told the 100 delegates. "Their uncompromising ideologies can drive the world to the brink of disaster. Like any other religion, Islam forbids the killing of innocent civilians. Yet some terrorist groups have preached that heaven awaits those who kill innocent civilians, so long as it is in the defence of their cause."
Perhaps you should stop referring to them as "holy warriors" then?
Mr Abdullah says the Muslim world must sever the spurious link that some religious institutions have falsely established between Islam, militancy and the killing of people. "Terrorism is the mortal enemy of Islam, not its consort," he said. Analysts at the meeting backed Mr Abdullah's remarks, saying Al Qaeda had hijacked Islam.
That's gone from being a cliche to becoming a ritual incantation. Saying "abracadabra" is just as effective and carries just as much meaning.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 11:17:42 AM ||
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#1
The director of Singapore's Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, Barry Desker, told the meeting that Al Qaeda remains resilient and the use of force cannot eliminate terrorist threats.
"The response cannot be a military one. This is fundamentally a US error," he said.
For someone in a supposedly "strategic" think-tank, this person seems to be oblivious to the larger implications of going into Iraq.
#2
The director of Singapore's Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, Barry Desker, told the meeting that Al Qaeda remains resilient and the use of force cannot eliminate terrorist threats.
"The response cannot be a military one. This is fundamentally a US error," he said.
Actually, use of force can completely eliminate terrorism. It depends on the level of force we're willing to muster.
#3
This guy seems to think that the proper position for the Uncle Sam is to be on his knees. Let me reword this passage:
The occasional poster at Rantburg's Institute of Defense and Strategic Studies, Zhang Fei, told the meeting that the US remains resilient and the Muslim world's use of proxy terrorist attacks will prompt a devastating American military attack.
"The Muslim response cannot be a terroristic one. This is fundamentally a Muslim error," he said.
#4
Malaysia should be placed on the 'terrorist watch list' of nations supporting international jihad.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/01/2004 14:26 Comments ||
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"Terrorism is the mortal enemy of Islam, not its consort," he said. Analysts at the meeting backed Mr Abdullah's remarks, saying Al Qaeda had hijacked Islam.
If "terrorism is the mortal enemy of Islam" why isn't more being done to combat its deleterious influence upon their religion?
If al Qaeda has hijacked Islam, isn't it about time to reverse that process? Silent acquiescence to violent subversion is too easily mistaken for collusion. Ask the people on United Airlines flight 93 about what to do when you're being hijacked.
Handwringing and whingeing are insufficient countermeasures to provide outsiders with the least reassurance that terrorism is being fought by those whose house of worship it has sequestered itself within.
#6
1. Malaysian terrorism say Terrorism is against Islam. LH - fine but what matters is DEEDS, not words. RBers - Malaysia and other states arent doing enough. LH - I agree, though its incorrect to say that they are doing nothing. Reading RB should let you know that they are taking action, though with varying degrees of efffectiveness. In some cases (like Egypt) the "street" if friendlier to terror than the state - in others (like Iran) its less friendly.
2. Malaysia doesnt like the war in Iraq. LH - so what else is new? We dont need Malaysians to win the war in Iraq, we need IRAQIS. Dont sweat this.
3. Is malaysia a state that supports terrorists? LH - not as far as I can see. Lets be a little thicker skinned, gentlemen.
#7
We dont need Malaysians to win the war in Iraq, we need IRAQIS. Dont sweat this.
Nobody gives a rat's ass if the Malaysians win the war in Iraq or not. The issue is terrorism, and their largely weak (and predictable) response to it is what is being pointed out. How does this Abdullah character even think that "resolving" the Israel-Palestinian conflict - assuming that his definition of resolution is the same as ours - is going to do something to alleviate terrorism? It just isn't going to happen. Until Islamofascism receives the big stomping that it deserves, there will always be some sort of slight that Islamists are going to use as a pretense to launch terrorist attacks on whomever they feel they have been slighted by. This Abdullah guy sure as hell isn't going to be part of the solution if all he is willing to do is criticize U.S. actions while offering nothing new in the way of ideas and little in the way of material assistance.
#8
"Attacking New York and Washington and killing close to 3000 noncombatants alienated us. For the first time in years, some of us stood up and asked the Forbidden Question: "Why do we have to please them?" Since nothing we ever do will be enough, why should we do anything?"
I just have to say Fred, this paragraph is perfect.
A Malaysian rights group condemned on Monday the use of a harsh security law to detain a Sri Lankan alleged to be involved in an international nuclear black-market. Describing the use of the Internal Security Act (ISA) to arrest businessman B.S.A Tahir Friday as an abuse of power, the Abolish ISA Movement urged the government to charge the Sri Lankan in an open court or release him immediately. The ISA allows for two-year detention periods, without trial, that can be renewed indefinitely. Abolish ISA Movement coordinator Syed Ibrahim Syed Noh said Tahirâs detention under the ISA was a "blatant attempt by the government to sidestep legal procedure."
If they arrested him under the ISA, they are following legal procedure. It's just that you don't like the ISA.
The group also asked if Tahirâs detention was an attempt by "the government to cover up other important persons in the scandal of nuclear weapons (to prevent them) from being exposed."
If he happens to commit suicide, or get's shot trying to escape, I'd say yes. Of course, they could also be using the arrest to pressure him to name some of those important people.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/01/2004 9:43:20 AM ||
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President Mohammad Khatami said on Tuesday [1 June] that Iran has no way but to proceed with development and progress in science and technology to defend national prestige and territorial integrity. Addressing the inaugural ceremony of the first phase of copper condensation in Sarcheshmeh, Kerman, President Khatami said that Iran is suffering from underdeveloped status despite God-given privileges it enjoys. "The world has made great progress. The more we lose the time, the wider the gap between our country and the developed countries will become, the president said. He said that Iran needs progress in the field of science and technology to become powerful not for aggression against others or interference in otherâs affairs. "It is illusionary to think we can defend our country and Islam just with aspiration and national resolve. We should know that there is a wide gap between us and the developed world," President Khatami said.
He said that Iran enjoys extensive skilful human resources. "We have the resources to move forward to narrow the gap with the developed nations. Our human resources are young and the education and research are growing," he said. The president said that Iran possesses enormous natural resources and unique geographical status. Iran has made great achievements in the past several years in developing soil, water, energy and mines, he said. He said that Iran has oil and gas resources and should apply science and technology to utilize them. Elsewhere in his speech, the president said that Iran needs industrial development and the mines sector has the highest privileges in Iran. Iran has experienced a 18 per cent growth in developing its mineral sector in the past two years and exported 900m dollars worth of minerals. He hoped that the second phase of the copper condensation at Sarcheshmeh would be commissioned in the near future. "With the next stage of the copper project to be commissioned in near future, Iranâs annual cooper output will stand at 350,000 t," he said. On the earthquake threat posed to Iran, he said that the quake threat also makes Iran decisive to proceed with progress and development. "Iran has been situated on some of the worldâs most active fault lines. The only way to thwart the threat is to reinforce our building to lessen damages. A programme to that effect should be adopted and carried out." On the democratic process in the country, President Khatami said that political differences should serve national interests. Democratic criteria to deal with social issues will serve public interest and help accelerate progress and economic development, President Khatami said. bla, bla and more bla
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/01/2004 3:06:53 PM ||
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#1
He [Khatami] said that Iran enjoys extensive skilful human resources. . .Our human resources are young and the education and research are growing
What wasn't said. . .
However we will still ignore the full potential of half of our population. . . .
#2
Iran does have alot going for it, resource wise, and people wise, but Triple-M* will prevent anything from making it happen. The modern world of neat things requires creativity and the free excange of ideas, and decentralized thinking. I do not see that happening in Iran until the Black Turbans are gone from management.
*Mad Mullah Management
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/01/2004 19:54 Comments ||
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#3
So how is the rebuilding of Bam coming? Just asking.
Posted by: john ||
06/01/2004 21:30 Comments ||
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The U.N. nuclear watchdog said in a confidential report seen by Reuters on Tuesday that Iran had acknowledged importing parts for centrifuges capable of making bomb-grade uranium which it previously said were made in Iran.
So much for the "self-developed" program storyline.
Washington accuses Iran of pursuing a nuclear arms programme. Tehran denies this, saying its nuclear programme is for power generation only.
"You seen the price of oil lately?"
"Iran has acknowledged that, contrary to... earlier statements, it had imported some magnets relevant to P2 centrifuges from Asian suppliers," the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) report said.
Pretty much everyone east of Iran could be considered Asian, to Iranians
The report also said that high enriched uranium (HEU), enriched to the point where it contains 36 percent uranium-235 -- the fissile uranium atom -- was found at a different site never previously named by the IAEA, Farayand.
"Hey, what's this?"
Iran has said the traces of 36 percent HEU found at Farayand and Kalaye Electric Company came from Pakistan.
Tap, nope
"It is unlikely, based on the information currently available, that the agency will be able to conclude that the 36 percent...contamination was due to components originating from the state in question," the report said.
Translation = "We don't believe them, but we can't prove it, yet"
Several diplomats said the state in question was Pakistan. They also said the 36 percent HEU could have come from Russia, but another Western diplomat who follows IAEA issues said it could not be ruled out that it was domestically produced. Iran last year agreed to freeze its uranium enrichment, which can be used for making a nuclear bomb, and signed a protocol allowing intrusive inspections of its nuclear sites by the IAEA.
I think they have a different idea of what "intrusive" means.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/01/2004 3:13:17 PM ||
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#1
We demand to feel what it is like to have to import a resource for energy subsistence.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/01/2004 16:43 Comments ||
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Washington accuses Iran of pursuing a nuclear arms programme. Tehran denies this, saying its nuclear programme is for power generation only.
Why bother with the phony pretense of "power generation? A nation in an area awash in oil somehow needs to have nuclear power generating capability? Please.
#3
I read somewhere that Iran flares off enough gas to provide all of its electric needs. What they want is an Islamic Bomb so they can brandish it around, get respect through fear, and threaten Israel with annihilation and feel good about themselves. Besides, it is all right to lie to infidels. Sez so in the Manual.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/01/2004 17:06 Comments ||
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#4
Can we let the Israelis blast there facilities to little pieces now?
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
06/01/2004 17:10 Comments ||
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You mean they *LIED*? Impossible! These are religious people!
Posted by: Dan ||
06/01/2004 17:52 Comments ||
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Centrifuge? No no no there are no nuclear components. Allah be praised. We don't have that kind of centrifuges. Allah be praised. These are centrifuges for antibody isolation for smallpox vaccines. Allah be praised. We are concer as you about bioterror. Allah be praised.
Iran said Tuesday it has never received nuclear technology from communist North Korea. "We never had sexual nuclear relations with that woman North Korea," Iran's Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi said at a press conference in Seoul. Kharrazi said Iran's nuclear technology is self-developed, and the international community doesn't need to worry about his country's nuclear capabilities, according to South Korea's Yonhap news agency.
Self-developed? I thought those traces of enriched uranium the inspectors found on the centrifuges were from a previous owner?
Iran Embassy officials in South Korea were not immediately available for comment. Earlier this month, diplomats told The Associated Press that evidence gathered by the U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency suggests North Korea was the source of nearly two tons of uranium hexafluoride delivered to Libya as part of attempts by Moammar Gadhaffi to build nuclear warheads.
Wonder if the Libyans told us stuff they didn't share with the UN?
The investigation was incomplete, but the evidence highlights concern that North Korea could be running a uranium-based nuclear weapons program, or supplying other nations the know-how to build atomic arms.
I'll take all of the above.
The United States and other countries accuse Iran of running a covert nuclear weapons program. Iran has rejected the allegations, saying its program is geared only toward generating nuclear power. "We will act in accordance with the International Atomic Energy Agency," Kharrazi said, according to Yonhap. On Saturday, North Korea denied allegations it provided Libya with uranium in early 2001, and accused the United States of running a "smear campaign" against it.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/01/2004 1:20:26 PM ||
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#1
A frustrated North Korea could not be reached for comment...
#2
"I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again. I did not have relations with that country, North Korea. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time â never. These allegations are false."
Posted by: Tibor ||
06/01/2004 16:37 Comments ||
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My definition of desperate - being forced to rely on the Norks for technological improvement and innovation.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/01/2004 16:53 Comments ||
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Bottom line : The Mao Jacket on the NKor Women is too revealing, therefore the Mullahs are offended.
THE Sydney fugitive arrested in Lebanon has confessed to raising terror funds in Australia, recruiting potential holy warriors and organising bombings, Beirutâs chief prosecutor said last night.
In claims that surprised Australian authorities, Prosecutor-General Adnan Addoum said the movements of Saleh Jamal, 32, had been monitored before he jumped bail in March using a false passport.
Mr Addoum said Jamal had confessed to attending Palestinian refugee camps since he fled Australia in March and to forming links with al-Qaeda members in Lebanon.
He also apparently confessed to a role in a bombing last month near the embassy district in the Syrian capital, Damascus.
Police sources confirmed yesterday that a second man arrested with Jamal, Haitham Milhem, was also a Sydney resident. The nature of the charges against him were due to become clearer by early this morning.
A Palestinian man and another of unknown nationality were arrested with the Australian-based pair.
Australian Federal Police investigators were speaking with Mr Addoum late last night in an effort to trace Jamalâs movements and the exact nature of the charges he is facing.
Neither the federal Government nor police had been able to glean anything about Jamalâs arrest on Friday, primarily because Monday was a public holiday in Lebanon.
Jamal fled Australia using a passport issued to someone else, and NSW police were not aware he had left the country.
He had been granted bail weeks earlier after serving two years on remand, awaiting a long-delayed series of trials into serious firearms offences.
Mr Addoum told the Nine Network that Jamal had said "I make contact, I give money and I have received money from some people in Australia and I come to here to try and make contact to make people to follow the organisation".
"And he make many contact to see how to make organisation in Lebanon and he make many contact with people in Australia," Mr Addoum said. "Your police was watching this."
Posted by: tipper ||
06/01/2004 11:58:39 AM ||
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From Compass
Iranian police arrested a Protestant Christian pastor in northern Iran three days ago, jailing him along with his wife and two teenage children. Pastor Khosroo Yusefi and his wife Nasrin were arrested on May 23 in Chalous, a town along the Caspian Sea coast in Mazanderan province. Together with their 18-year-old son and a daughter age 15, they remain imprisoned without known charges. Today [May 26] sources in Iran confirmed to Compass that the Yusefi family, together with four other local Christians arrested three weeks ago, have been moved to an unknown prison location outside Chalous. ....
Pastor Yusefi is responsible for overseeing a number of unregistered Assemblies of God congregations in northern Iran. Now in their late 40s, Yusefi and his wife were members of the Bahaâi religion before they came to faith in Christ nearly 20 years ago. Reportedly dozens of believers from two of Yusefiâs church groups were arrested and jailed in the first week of May, when police threatened and beat them for refusing to renounce their Christian faith. The majority of these Christians meeting in secret house-church groups are former Muslims. .... Last week most of these Christian prisoners were released, although police announced that four of the groupâs âkey personsâ would remain imprisoned. .... Credible reports have come in from northern Iran since the beginning of 2004, documenting the arrests of a large number of individual Christian converts in the region. But Sundayâs arrest marks the first time that the entire family of a Christian leader has been taken into custody. ...
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 6:57:39 AM ||
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From IranMania
Iranâs Supreme Court has quashed a death sentence for blasphemy against dissident intellectual Hashem Aghajari, .... Aghajari, a history professor at Tehran University and a disabled war veteran, was convicted of blasphemy by a judge in the western city of Hamedan in November 2002 for calling for a reformation in Iranâs state Shiite Muslim religion. He had said in a speech there that Muslims were not "monkeys" and "should not blindly follow" religious leaders ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 6:40:25 AM ||
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#7
Well, at least the defimation of monkeys has been cleared up.
A lot of monkeys were really depressed. They seem much happier now.
Posted by: Michael ||
06/01/2004 16:21 Comments ||
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#8
Earlier Mark stated he had some photos he wanted to post but did not know how. So if they are his images placed on his ISP (or free web space), is it bandwidth theft?
More generally, when we link to images (e.g AP photos) or sound files, instead of the the parent html page, is that also bandwidth theft?
Posted by: ed ||
06/01/2004 16:33 Comments ||
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#9
I have been remiss, but as I under stand the rule, as long as you credit the source, you should be OK. So, Sadr is from Fox News, and the gibbon is from the Hannover, Germany zoo.
#10
BigEd---You've got your sources mixed up. Heh heh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/01/2004 17:16 Comments ||
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#11
ed and BigEd:
Linking? Who said anything about linking? Linking and image sourcing are two completely different things.
BigEd, my understanding is that it is still bandwidth theft if you are sourcing the image from a server that isn't yours (for instance, the Hanover Zoo server or the foxnews.com server) regardless of 'credit'. And no, ed, if someone hosts the image on their own server and calls the image from there, that's not bandwidth theft. I believe that, however, is not what is happening with these two images.
Hat tip LGF
The new face of Islamic terrorism is quite a departure from the spacy half-smile of Osama bin Laden and the dead-eyed glare of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi; ever since the latest FBI wanted poster came out, itâs a pudgy, long-haired American kid who appears to be locked in a desperate, losing struggle to grow a beard: Adam Yahiye Gadahn, an American convert to Islam.
Just as they did in the cases of Gadahnâs fellow converts to Islamic radicalism (John Walker Lindh, the âAmerican Taliban,â British shoe bomber Richard Reid, and others), Western analysts have rushed to ascribe Gadahnâs involvement with al-Qaeda as a product of his disaffection and alienation, cannily capitalized upon by al-Qaeda operatives to make the boy feel important and give him a place in the world.
Gadahn obligingly supplied the talking heads with plenty of ammunition for this sort of thing in an account of his conversion, apparently self-penned, that is posted on the website of the USC Muslim Students Association. His father was a Muslim, although evidently not a particularly active one, and his mother a Christian. Neither, by his account at least, seems to have made much effort to raise him in either faith, and he says he had some friction with them. For reasons unexplained at one point he tells us that he moved in with his grandparents. âI had become obsessed with demonic Heavy Metal music,â he says, to the extent that he âeschewed personal cleanliness and let my room reach an unbelievable state of disarray."[1]
Around that time he discovered Islam by cruising the Internet.
Unfortunately, Gadahnâs conversion story ends before he can tell us how he came to be involved with Islamic terrorists and undergoing training in al-Qaeda camps. But that is the fundamental question that must be answered, and all the talk of rootless, disaffected youth that has filled the airwaves over the last few days doesnât even come close to answering it.
To be sure, since James Dean and probably earlier, alienated youth have abounded in the United States. Drugs, illegitimacy, and other byproducts of youthful disaffection are proof. But Gadahn is not a rowdy teen gleefully smashing his geeky teacherâs prized record collection in The Blackboard Jungle; he is a member of an organized, worldwide movement determined to commit acts of violence and institute Islamic law. Gadahn could have just as easily become a Jehovahâs Witness, or a Mormon. None of those choices would have landed him in a terrorist training camp and made him the new face of al-Qaeda. Itâs obvious why Islamic terrorist groups would want to recruit someone like Adam Gadahn or Richard Reid. For one thing, a non-Arab can enter areas where security measures would prevent an Arab from going (although the PC Left is trying to change that).
Less discussed is the fact that men like Gadahn and Lindh can be recruited at all. The other day I was speaking with a Pakistani Muslim who told me that he knew âa littleâ Arabic, but didnât speak or read it fluently. He wasnât very involved in his religion, and had picked up what he knew of it not from a direct confrontation with its core texts and doctrines, but from cultural habit. But Western converts have no such luxury. They must approach the Qurâan and other Islamic texts without the culturally ingrained ways of understanding them that Muslims pick up in Islamic societies. Thus they come to Islam more or less in a pure, abstract form. The force of any given passage of Qurâan or Hadith, not blunted by culture or familiarity, can be presented by whoever is instructing the convert with any spin the teacher might favor.
Gadahn was apparently a member of Muzammil Siddiqiâs Islamic Society of Orange County â at least until he was expelled after a fight with someone there. Siddiqi, a high-profile self-proclaimed moderate Muslim spokesman, said of Gadahn: âHe was becoming very extreme in his ideas and views. He must have disliked something.â[2]
And Siddiqi knows extreme. Kenneth Timmerman has noted that âduring an anti-Israel rally outside the White House on Oct. 28, 2000, Siddiqi openly threatened the United States with violence if it continued its support of Israel. âAmerica has to learn...if you remain on the side of injustice, the wrath of God will come. Please, all Americans. Do you remember that?...If you continue doing injustice, and tolerate injustice, the wrath of God will come.ââ Timmerman adds, âSiddiqi also has called for a wider application of Shariâa law in the United States, and in a 1995 speech praised suicide bombers. âThose who die on the part of justice are alive, and their place is with the Lord, and they receive the highest position, because this is the highest honor,â he was quoted as saying by the Kansas City Star on Jan. 28, 1995.â[3]
This is Islamic moderation? Deliver us from the fundamentalists. One such purist, Abu Hamza al-Masri, the one-eyed, hook-handed radical imam who was just arrested in Britain on suspicion of aiding in terrorist acts and trying to establish a terrorist training camp in Oregon, has always presented his teachings as the genuine article: pure Islam. According to a March 2004 report from the BBC, âPure Islam has claimed the mantle of being the only real Islam as practised at the time of the Prophet Mohammed and his companions. It regards the Islam that came from the Indian subcontinent as corrupted and polluted by âculturalâ values such as music.â Such a presentation would be especially attractive to people like Gadahn and other Western converts, who are already cut loose from their cultural moorings and uninitiated as yet into Islamic culture.
âThis has led,â the BBC report continues, âto a split within the British Muslim community, creating a belief amongst many young people that there is no compromise between Islam and life in the West.â Nor is this view solely the province of a tiny minority of extremists; on the contrary, it is winning the field: âHowever, moderate Muslims leaders have remained largely silent and have yet to provide a credible alternative.â[4]
Likewise, a young man like Gadahn who gains what he knows about Islam from the internet will find dozens of jihadist websites, many of which feature detailed explications of the Qurâan and Sunnah such that would warm the heart of Osama bin Laden â and precious few, if any, Muslim sites that refute the rigorist interpretation in favor of an Islam that is essentially peaceful. Moderate Muslims in general donât refute; they just ignore. Not long ago a young Muslim woman told me that she didnât think it was necessary to respond to radical Muslim exegesis of the Qurâan â it was so ridiculous, she said, that no one with half a brain could possibly take it seriously.
Maybe. But Adam Gadahn (and Johnny Taliban Lindh, and Richard Reid, and Jack Roche, and Jose Padilla, and all the rest) shows that such responses are no longer adequate, if they ever were. Gadahn and the rest were probably recruited by straightforward appeals to numerous passages in the Qurâan and Sunnah. In Islamic history and doctrine violent jihad is founded on numerous verses of the Qurâan â most notably, one known in Islamic theology as the âVerse of the Swordâ: âThen, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is forgiving, mercifulâ (Sura 9:5). Establishing âregular worshipâ and paying the âpoor-dueâ (zakat) means essentially that they will become Muslim, as these are two of the central responsibilities of every Muslim.
Such verses are not taken âout of contextâ to justify armed jihad by radical imams such as those who may have taught Gadahn; on the contrary, thatâs how they have been understood by Muslims from the beginning of Islam. Said the Muslim Prophet Muhammad: âAllah assigns for a person who participates in (holy battles) in Allahâs Cause and nothing causes him to do so except belief in Allah and in His Messengers, that he will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr).â[5]
One classic manual of Islamic sacred law, which in 1991 gained the approval of Cairoâs prestigious and influential Al-Azhar University as conforming âto the practice and faith of the orthodox Sunni community,â is quite specific and detailed about the meaning of jihad. It defines the âgreater jihadâ as âspiritual warfare against the lower selfâ and then devotes eleven pages to various aspects of the âlesser jihadâ and its aftermath. It defines this jihad as âwar against non-Muslims,â noting that the word itself âis etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion.â[6]
This manual stipulates that âthe caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians...until they become Muslim or pay the non-Muslim poll tax.â The requirement that non-Muslims first be âinvitedâ to enter Islam and then warred against until they either convert or pay the special tax on non-Muslims (jizya), is founded upon the Qurâan: âFight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subduedâ (Sura 9:29).
This verse has been used in Islamic history and jurisprudence to establish three choices for non-Muslims that Muslims are facing in jihad: conversion to Islam, submission under Islamic rule (which involves a carefully delineated second-class citizen status centered around but by no means limited to the jizya tax ), or death. The goal of jihad is thus the incorporation of non-Muslims into Muslim society, either by conversion or submission.
This is the explanation that radical Muslim spokesmen around the world have given, repeatedly and consistently, for what theyâre doing: they are not terrorists, they are mujahedin, warriors of jihad. In this they are doing nothing new, but merely carrying on an illustrious tradition: violent jihad is a constant of Islamic history. Calls for jihad went out in the seventh century against the Christians of Egypt and Syria and the other areas of what is now known as the Muslim world. Such calls sounded innumerable times against Europe until 1683.
After that, although jihads became less common (at least in Europe), at no point did Islamic theology reject the doctrine of jihad. It remained part of Islamic thought and practice, to be revived again where possible and necessary. Yet the simple fact that violent jihad remained and remains today a vital component of Islamic theology is today smothered under a fog of political correctness. This plays into the hands of Islamic radicals by making it unnecessary for self-proclaimed moderates to renounce these doctrines, or even to acknowledge their existence. But unless or until a large number of Muslims around the world do so, the call to violent jihad will continue to inspire young people like Adam Gadahn. After all, they want to please their new friends in their new home and do what they have become convinced is the will of Allah.
Thus, whenever someone proclaims that Islam is a religion of peace that has been hijacked by a tiny minority of extremists (instead of a religion that contains a violent doctrine that sets it at odds with the rest of world and cries out for reform), they are helping to make sure that more and more disaffected youth like Adam Gadahn will end up in radical Muslim training camps â and will eventually carry their struggle back to their infidel homeland.
#1
Sung to "Modern Major General"
by Gilbert & Sullivan
I am the very model of a modern Qada terrorist,
I've information nuclear, chemical and bio too,
I know the genealogy of the prophet down to me and you,
From Saudi-Land to old Baghdad in order categorical.
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters of Wahabi law,
I understand how to maim, both the simple and most gruesome now,
About Sarin and V X gas, I'm teeming with a lot o' news --
With many cheerful facts about the way to build a dirty bomb.
From Khilafah
Where is the uproar? Where is the overflow of emotion draining? Should there not have been a revolution by now? Should not the armies of Islam be pouring into Iraq in their millions to protect their brothers and sisters from the humiliation that they face at the hands of the occupying forces? How can it be that such catastrophes continue yet the people remain subdued?
It has now [May 23] been two weeks since the first pictures of torture and humiliation of Iraqi prisoners in American custody hit the international headlines. Anger and outrage have poured from Arab and Muslim populations around the world ever since then. .... The prayers of the Muslims have been prolonged and the supplication has increased.
Yet nothing has changed. Are the US forces being driven out of the land of the Muslims? Have the occupiers abandoned their efforts to impose unislamic ideals and values upon the Muslims? Have those who committed or ordered these atrocities been brought to true justice? The answer is no!
The American and British occupiers remain in control of the land. They continue to attack the Islamic ideology and propagate their own ideology, even as they massacre innocent civilians, destroy Islamâs holy sites and torture their prisoners. .... Every time these events occur, the resentment and negative emotions increase amongst the Muslims, but their resulting response is qualitatively the same, inaction. .... it leads some people to believe that the time for words has ended and that action, any action, is preferable to continued inaction. ...
The establishment of our political unity behind one Khaleefah, and the subsequent unification of our lands behind this leadership must be paramount in our actions. And it can only be with these words that the Muslims can unify, implement Islam and establish a strong political and military entity, which will enable them to react appropriately to the attacks they endure. Enough is enough. It seems that every word is spoken today except the ones that matter most⊠the words of this worldâs Creator.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 4:22:50 AM ||
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From Khilafah
Thereâs something deadly disturbing about Western liberal democracy. ... itâs worth taking a moment to examine the reality of this thing called freedom and the gilded prison they call sovereignty, being thrust upon the people of Iraq. Our noble Islamic Ummah is not familiar with the principles and finer points of Western liberal democracy. To understand it, we must first familiarise ourselves with the unique language of the West and their peculiar concepts of morality and justice. Reality is labelled differently. For a start, Iraq isnât occupied it is liberated. The crusader army are not invaders - they are liberators. Whilst the Mujahideen on the other hand are terrorists, bandits, dead-enders, Saddam loyalists, Baâath party die-hards, Fedayeen (rotate as required to avoid wear-out). .... Our Mujahideen are also frequently called foreign fighters ... However, the American and British armies along with their mercenaries, for all their torture, sexual abuse and murder are of course not foreigners at all. Incidentally these hired guns (out to make a killing), who kill and torture for money are not considered mercenaries, they are merely (innocent) contractors. .... The few and relatively minor crimes America and Britain have admitted to, will be investigated, charged, judged, prosecuted by themselves in their own sham courts, and not by the people they abused ....
You get the idea.
.... It is odd, that the products of 2,000 years of Judeo-Christian enlightenment are Israel, Afghanistan and Iraq. And at the pinnacle of their civilisation, sits America and her faithful co-criminal, Britain. .... Western liberal democracy is dangerous and deadly. Iraq and Afghanistan, are a horrific and bloody testimonial â a new low in barbarity and hatred not seen since the time of the Christian inquisition and previous crusades. If you are a weak nation, you will be exploited. ... Their conduct so duplicitous and cynical, their warped morality so endemic so as to seem intrinsic, it would be impossible to accept any truth or good could emanate from this ideology. ...
It is precisely to this chaos and inhumanity, Allah had sent the noble prophets. Muhammad is the final Messenger sent for the whole of mankind and Islam is the final Message .... It is time, not only for the Ummah of Muhammad to once again embrace this Message comprehensively and to implement itâs system and Khilafah but also to liberate the rest of the world, suffering under the dark oppression ... Western liberal democracy. ...
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 4:06:05 AM ||
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#1
Ummah Gooma
Careful with that Fatwa mamood
Several species of small greasy jihadis grovvin in a cave
#2
Mike, a little bit of this Jihad Unspun and Khilafah stuff goes a loooong way. This crap isn't even worth reading, much less worth fisking or debating.
I'll grant that each of us should probably spend some time "getting to know the enemy." Starting right after 9/11, I began reading Arabnews.com every day to see what our Saudi "friends" were saying. After a couple of months I stopped, though, because all the articles followed the same formula: (a) Muslims are poor helpless victims; (b) Jews control the world; (c) An endless string of straw-man arguments, debating from premises that are not just false, but crazy; and (d) Islam is superior to everything else, and Muhammed told mankind everything that's worth knowing. Beyond a certain point, it's just not necessary to read any more of that stuff, because the conclusion is unavoidable: Muslim, or at least Arab Muslim, society is deeply, profoundly fucked up and that's all there is to it.
I don't know about anyone else, but I sure wish you'd give it a break; this stuff is getting old.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
06/01/2004 8:30 Comments ||
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#5
I think this stuff is GREAT! New people are coming onto Rantburg all the time. I'm sure they can benefit, and I like being able to have access to Islamic propaganda.
"Know your enemy . . . "
Even though we're sick of it, it's still important. Hitler's game wasn't constructed in only a year or two. He kept it up until enough people listened to him and believed in him. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We have to continue to fight these people with the truth.
Yes Dave D., we'd all like to see them give it a break. But they're not going to. They are hell-bent on subjugating the West so they can destroy the Jews. Better prepare yourself for the long-haul.
#8
Makes one think think about the unthinkable if it came down to us vs. them.
Some of Zenster's earlier ramblings don't sound so far-fetched. Especially when you hear the reports of the house to house hunts to kill non-muslims by the pieces of shit al-Qadas in Saudi Arabia over the weekend. If it comes down to us vs. them. . .
#9
BigEd.....It is, and always has been, US against THEM. This is a war between two incompatible cultures. The only problem is only one side KNOWS THIS....and it's not US. We're over there fiddle-fartin' around trying to be nice. We have to wipe out every last one of these animals, every last memory of these muslim bastards. We must drop the big one on 'em. The sooner the better, I say.
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
06/01/2004 13:58 Comments ||
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#10
I'd like to see the article's author set the controls for the heart of the sun.
#12
Some of Zenster's earlier ramblings don't sound so far-fetched. Especially when you hear the reports of the house to house hunts to kill non-muslims by the pieces of shit al-Qadas in Saudi Arabia over the weekend. If it comes down to us vs. them. . .
BigEd, they aren't ramblings and, sadly, they aren't so very far fetched. As I've said before, there isn't a church in existence that could knowingly allow Nazis to worship openly in uniform without being subject to the most grueling sanctions. Yet, Islam is permitted to have pure scum worship at its altar without anyone supposedly having to blink.
The time for complacence and tolerance is over. Yes, there are decent Muslims in this world, but their inability or unwillingness to counteract those who would defile their religion has made necessary the worst sort of intervention, if only to prevent the utter extermination of all Islamic believers.
Should defeating the universal application of Sharia law require extermination of every last living Muslim, I shall not weep. It will be regrettable, but not unjust.
#13
You triggered a neural path firing with the following statement:
"Yet, Islam is permitted to have pure scum worship at its altar without anyone supposedly having to blink."
Heh, you have no idea... Before attending each prayer-call at the moskkk, they go to the restroom and clean up: ass, feet, nasal passages - Little Mike had a mucous thing. It's the world's largest loogie-fest and it happens (supposedly) 5 times per day. There's nothing quite like the first experience when you are in the restroom at the wrong time and come to the sink to wash your hands, but you can't: there's some guy sitting on the counter with his feet in the sink. You decide, then and there, that you will not bring your own coffee cup to work - where would you wash it? They do have separate Eastern & Western "hammams" - but they don't give a shit.
Oh, BTW, there is nothing on this earth like the SMELL of these restrooms. I lived on a farm when I was a kid. Never smelled anything that beat this. And I am, in this comment, referring to the restrooms in the office bldgs of Aramco in Dhahran - what's called the Core Area. Saudis working there are the non-Royal creme de la creme of SaudiLand. Imagine what the rest of the country's like...
#14
arabs are liars who live in a fantasy world. They know nothing about the real world, their education includes memorizing the koran......PERIOD! muslims are like communists....they're a parasite on the body of humanity....sucking the life out of everything they touch. There is NOTHING good about muslim culture.....NOTHING! Death, destruction, mindless slogans and deceit, IS muslim culture. There's nothing of value in it.
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
06/01/2004 10:37 Comments ||
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From Khilafah
Many of us were taught at school that the branch of mathematics known as probability theory was the science of gamblers. .... These principles of probability have now pervaded all aspects of life. Probability theory has gone from the smoke filled rooms of the poker player to the market place, oil production, manufacturing, shipping and even the health care industry.
Health care is an interesting case .... the medical risk assessment is big business, as the North American male population are prepared to spend big bucks on knowing their long- and short-term health predictions. Diagnostic kits and tests to predict are a lucrative business. These come in the form of home cholesterol and blood pressure testing kits as well as laboratory and hospital based methods. The absolute life span of a human being cannot be predicted using a blood spot test on a strip of plastic. Basically they are getting ripped off, but this doesnât stop them spending. ...
Investments and markets trends are predicted based on models of probability. These predictions affect employment, manufacturing and production, import and export, foreign investment, loans and credit agreements and almost every element of the modern day economy. As with health care, there are vast amounts of money to be made merely by applying mathematical models without substance. ....
In 2001 Americans wagered $57 billion dollars on lotteries, $18 billion on horses and dogs, $592 billion in casinos, and $150 billion on other forms gambling. ....
If Western society is sincere in its adherence to scientific ideas and enlightened philosophy how does it explain the fact the people en mass throw away their money chasing a dream, with next to no chance of it being realised.
Perhaps there is a simple explanation; greed. This emotion can push rational people to do irrational things, especially when they are being egged on to do so. ....
The West is proud of the enlightened philosophers, their renaissance artisans and their rational scientists. All of these works are worth a hill of beans in light of the irrational culture of fear that is cultivated among the common people of the West. Americans are told to be scared of their own shadow, with regards to those evil terrorists that are about to pounce and destroy all that they cherish. Engendering fear of the terrorist threat is the political lifeblood of politicians such as Blair, Bush and Berlusconi et al. Instilling this concept of fear of Muslims in the people was helped significantly by the image of approximately 3,000 people dying live on cable news network back in September 2001. However horrific those scenes were, one would of thought that ârationalâ Americans would have the capacity to put things into perspective. If they were to apply the techniques of cold calculated risk assessments, they would see that the actual number of Americans dieing in a terrorist attack on American soil in the year 2000 were zero, as was the case for 2002 and 2003. Even in the year 2001 the probability of dieing in an attack was 1 in 100,000. .... So the average American should be more scared of himself or his fellow American taking his life rather than some foreign terrorists. ....
The other big killer, that seems to be continually over looked when it comes to international politics, is the old enemy the automobile. 1.2 million people die and over 50 million people are permanently disabled from traffic crashes worldwide each year. .... So who should the average American fear most a Muslim with a boarding pass for a domestic flight or his buddy swigging Bud behind the wheel of a Buick. You do the math!
The western way of life is underpinned by a contradiction, statistics and risk assessment on the one hand and superstition on the other. This results in an inability to conceptualise issues. .... The people then congratulate themselves by believing they have diversity of opinion and have true freedom of expression.
In contrast Islam has a coherent and consistent philosophy of life, and a common source of law to govern our affairs i.e. the Quran and Sunnah. We do not allow probability theory to affect the laws that we live our lives by. We do not allow politicians to use probabilities to mould public opinion. Islam does not require us to base our actions on fatalistic fantasies nor to become slaves of risk assessment and predictions. We merely follow the divine law, Shara. This law is followed whilst we still acknowledge that Allah (Subhanahu wa taâala) is fully aware of actions and events past present and future. We place emphasis on what we should do, in legal terms, rather than philosophising about what may or may not befall us. Whatever does happen to us happens only with the will of Allah. ...
The issue of knowing what action to do in a particular situation depends not on pondering on our fate, but on seeking out a law extracted from the sacred texts of Islam. A verse of the Quran, a hadith or even an incident from the lives of the sahaba are all better guides for life than probability theory and mathematical models of risk.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 3:50:59 AM ||
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#1
I do not have a problem if you wish to live survive in cave tent, go to it. Three thousand souls at the WTC were never given that choice. The rest of us prefer the smell of gasoline to camel dung.
Posted by: john ||
06/01/2004 8:29 Comments ||
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#2
I do not have a problem if you wish to live survive in cave tent, go to it. Three thousand souls at the WTC were never given that choice. The rest of us prefer the smell of gasoline to camel dung.
Posted by: john ||
06/01/2004 8:29 Comments ||
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#3
Apologies for the double post. Bud really does taste better than goats milk.
Posted by: john ||
06/01/2004 8:30 Comments ||
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#4
In 2001 Americans wagered $57 billion dollars on lotteries, $18 billion on horses and dogs, $592 billion in casinos, and $150 billion on other forms gambling. ....
Yeah, ask somebody in Vegas who some of their biggest high rollers are. Would Allah opt for craps, baccarat, or poker or would he be satisfied with just the hookers?
#5
Total up all that cash spent on gambling by the US and you get $817 billion, about 8% of our GDP. Total up the GDP of the ME Mulsim world and you get $617 billion with a population comparable to ours (265,000,000 people). What we "waste" on gambling dwarfs their entire production, including the friggin' oil!
Abdullah- free your mind and the rest will follow!
#8
We do not allow probability theory to affect the laws that we live our lives by.
Horsesh!t. People in Islamist countries have a much higher probability of dying for any number of reasons:
1.) Women dying from being beaten to death by their flaccid husbands.
2.) Children dying being used as human mine sweepers in battle.
3.) Men dying from chemical or gas attacks during conflicts.
4.) Infants dying from lack of modern post-natal care.
5.) People dying at the hands of stone age Sharia law-givers who use spotty evidence at best.
6.) Tens of thousands of people dying in their mud huts because their corrupt government couldn't be bothered to enforce earthquake safety standards whilst they nonetheless spend billions pursuing nuclear weapons.
7.) Hundreds of people dying at a time in airliner crashes due to skimping on maintenance schedules and poorly trained airframe mechanics.
8.) Untold millions of people dying over the centuries because religious autocracy forbids any scientific enlightenment that would advance learning and knowledge beyond their mullahs' self-satisfied Neanderthal lifestyles.
#9
The West is proud of the enlightened philosophers, their renaissance artisans and their rational scientists...
We're not jealous...oh no! It means nothing that calculus, relativity (special & general), quantum theory, structure of DNA etc etc were worked out by the kuffar, we could have done if we really wanted to..honest! The issue of knowing what action to do in a particular situation depends not on pondering on our fate, but on seeking out a law extracted from the sacred texts of Islam.
But that all gets a bit complex when you start considering little problems like abrogation (nanskh), for instance is there compulsion in matters of religion (9:5) or isn't there (2:256)? Can you be totally sure about Hadeeth from even the cannonical collecions (Muslim/Bukhari) & do you or don't you have to consider the 'occasion of revelation' (asbab an-nuzul) when deciding how to interpret said verse? Decisions...decisions.
Posted by: Dave (UK) ||
06/01/2004 17:13 Comments ||
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#10
I have known Mormans who feel as stongly about their place in Gods Kingdom as this author opines, and frankly, their bikes are welcome in my neighborhood..(Just not during the NBA Finals)
So what is the working difference between Mormons and Muslims?
Have yet to see a Mormon behead an infidel.
Sectarian blood-letting in Karachi has reached its worst level in two decades as extremists fight a renewed campaign to hunt them down, analysts said on Tuesday. An apparent suicide attack on a Shia mosque during evening prayers on Monday was the latest in a bloody spiral of attacks. It killed 19 people and wounded more than two dozen. Five deadly attacks in Karachi have claimed 46 lives in less than a month, confirming the cityâs reputation as one of the worldâs most dangerous cities. âAs far as I remember, the last time I saw violence of this magnitude was in 1984,â said Shia leader Hasan Turabi. Analyst Hasan Askari Rizvi saw the latest attacks as a bid by militant groups to distract government efforts to dismantle them and hunt down their leaders such as Amjad Farooqi, the Al Qaeda-linked militant said to have masterminded two plots to kill President Pervez Musharraf. The perpetrators, analysts suspect, are militants belonging to Sunni majority, to which President Musharraf belongs.
Unlike the president, who sees himself as an enlightened moderate, the militants are Deobandis, followers of a South Asian brand of Islam akin to the ultra-conservative Wahhabism of Saudi Arabia. President Musharraf made die-hard militants his enemies by abandoning support for the Taliban regime in neighbouring Afghanistan and joining the US-led war on terror in late 2001, and later by pursuing peace with India. âAll these groups think they have been betrayed by the government of Pakistan,â political analyst Hasan Askari said. âThese attacks appear to be meant to create chaos to avenge this betrayal. And if you want to create chaos, you can make it a sectarian or any other form.â
âThere can be other reasons for these attacks but the main reason remains the same â the war on terror,â said Dr Mutahir Ahmed, professor of International Relations at Karachi University. The first recorded outbreak of violence was in 1963 in the rural Sindh town of Khairpur, some 450 kilometres northeast of Karachi, where over 150 Shias were killed in a mob attack. It spread to Karachi in 1978. Over the next six years hundreds of Shias and Sunnis were killed and scores of mosques were burnt to the ground. âSectarian militancy in Pakistan further rose with the Islamic revolution in Iran, followed by the rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan,â said Jamil Yusuf, former chief of Karachiâs Citizen-Police Liason Committee.âThe past two or three years have seen the rise of highly-motivated militants, who are not scared of death and want to become martyrs by killing members of the rival sect,â police investigator Manzoor Mughal said.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 8:42:00 PM ||
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#1
"This year we have a bumper crop of deranged turbans! Unfortunately they mix like oil and water"
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/01/2004 21:17 Comments ||
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Foreign agencies were involved in the terrorism in Karachi to block foreign investment and the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) is being used as their tool, said Qazi Hussain Ahmad, acting president of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) and Jamaat-e-Islami ameer. Mr Ahmad, while talking to reporters in Dubai after returning from Turkey on Tuesday, said the federal government and President General Musharraf were patronising terrorists in Karachi. He alleged that Altaf Hussain, the MQM chief, had given Karachi nothing but lawlessness and terrorism. Mr Ahmad said that there was no sectarian strife in Pakistan since Shias and Sunnis were living together peacefully.
In Karachi? Living together peacefully in Karachi?
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 8:36:59 PM ||
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Clan militias fought for control over a town on the Kenyan border Tuesday, leaving at least 20 people dead and 50 wounded, witnesses said. The battle began just before dawn in Beledhawo, on the southeastern border with Kenya, and six people were wounded in Mandera, Kenya, witnesses said by two-way radio. "The militias met with stiff resistance from their rivals, who had control of the city," said Abdi Farah, a businessman in Beledhawo. He said that after two hours of fighting, the attacking militia withdrew. Hundreds of Somalis reportedly fled across the border into Kenya, trying to escape Tuesday's fighting, several witnesses said. This is the second time the clans have fought for control of the town. In April, eight people were killed and 12 wounded in clashes that ended after clan elders negotiated a cease-fire.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 8:16:48 PM ||
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#1
See, I told' ya, we could sit back, watch and eat our popcorn, as the uncivilised ironed it out! Not so much as one Red Bloodied American has been 'tarnished'!!!
Rival ethnic militants in Nigeria's troubled oil-rich southern delta pledged peace Tuesday after the killings of two American oil workers prompted a government crackdown on a yearlong spree of bloodletting. Dan Reyenieju, leader of an ethnic Itsekiri delegation, said he and leaders of the Ijaws had made a voluntary decision to end the violence, which has seen villages razed and hundreds killed. "The only solution to our problems is at a round table," Reyenieju said at a dingy social club in the Niger Delta oil city of Warri, flanked by archrival Ijaws. "Not behind the barrel of a gun."
"This is a great day," agreed Ijaw leader Kingsley Otuaro. "This is definitely the solution to our problems." Dozens have been detained by police and military investigating the April shooting deaths of U.S. oil contractors Ryne Hathaway and Denny Fowler and five Nigerians. The escalating violence in the Niger Delta, where the bulk of Nigeria's oil is drilled, has forced multinational firms to shut some wells and pipeline facilities and turn their attention offshore in recent years. The crisis cut the country's production by nearly one-quarter last year, and production has yet to fully return to normal this year. Both ethnic groups also accused oil firms of fanning the violence with "divide-and-rule tactics," including payoffs to militants from one side to protect oil sites from the other. Oil company officials privately admit being forced to pay "security fees" to local thugs in order to prevent hostage-takings, sabotage and other attacks.
Although the peace promise offered new hope, oil multinationals ChevronTexaco and Royal Dutch/Shell said it was too soon to return to swampland wells and pipeline facilities. "We do welcome any peace initiatives and we support any efforts made," said Don Boham, spokesman for Shell's Nigerian subsidiary. "Yet it is too early to see what the results are." ChevronTexaco also has no immediate plans to return to abandoned oil sites and was waiting for the firm's security advisers to determine "when it's safe to return," company spokesman Deji Haastrup said.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 8:01:53 PM ||
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#2
"The only solution to our problems is at a round table," Reyenieju said
"No, a rectangular table...with nice legs" Ijaw leader Kingsley Otuaro said
"Round!"
"Rectangular!"
and the strife renewed
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/01/2004 21:00 Comments ||
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Al-Qaida suspects in the deadly 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies took shelter in West Africa in the months before the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, converting terror cash into untraceable diamonds, according to findings of a U.N.-backed court obtained by The Associated Press. The allegations came as part of the Sierra Leone war crimes court's investigation of former Liberian President Charles Taylor, alleged have been a middleman between al-Qaida and West Africa's multimillion-dollar diamond trade. "We have in the process of investigating Charles Taylor ... clearly uncovered that he harbored al-Qaida operatives in Monrovia (the Liberian capital) as late as the summer of 2001," said David Crane, the court's lead prosecutor. "The central thread is blood diamonds."
Other international investigators told the AP the three suspects are Mohammed Atef of Egypt, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed of Comoros and Sheikh Ahmed Salim Swedan of Kenya. Fazul and Swedan are believed in East Africa; Atef was killed in fighting in Afghanistan. All were on the FBI's most-wanted terrorist list in connection with Aug. 7, 1998 car bombings that killed 231 people at American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Al-Qaida claimed responsibility for both attacks. The three took shelter in Liberia in June and July of 2001, according to the international investigation findings obtained by the AP. Crane, a veteran U.S. Defense Department lawyer, said he had no information on whether any funds from alleged al-Qaida diamond dealings were used to carrying out the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington.
That was likely either zakat or princely largesse...
FBI teams have repeatedly traveled to West Africa to investigate allegations of al-Qaida diamond dealings here. No charges are known to have been brought in any court as a result of any of the probes into alleged West Africa-al-Qaida links. U.S. government officials say they have found little or no evidence to support those allegations. The illicit international trade in so-called blood diamonds draws on generally high-quality gems from Sierra Leone. The trade helped fund many of West Africa's wars of the 1990s, and is increasingly under international scrutiny as a suspected means of finance for terror. The United States estimates that between $70 million and $100 million still are smuggled out of Sierra Leone each year, despite the coming of peace and international accords to block illicit trafficking. U.S. and U.N. authorities and international rights groups have long believed Taylor was a top conduit for smuggled West Africa diamonds. Taylor is alleged to have used diamonds acquired in Sierra Leone to bankroll the 1989-1996 insurgency that brought him to power in neighboring Liberia.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 7:47:23 PM ||
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Miss USA 2004 - Shandi Fennesey :
What is the craziest thing you have ever done?
I conquered a fear of heights and water by bungee jumping from a crane over a lake. And if that's not crazy enough, I also wrestled a greased pig in a mud pit.
RoP Watch Special Feature
Police clashed with rioting mourners Tuesday as thousands of peaceful muslims gathered for the funerals of 19 people killed in an apparent homicide suicide bombing of a crowded Shiite Muslim mosque, the latest terrorist attack to hit Pakistanâs largest city. Muslim on Muslim crime.
Angry Shiites ransacked several shops and hurled stones near the mosque hit in Mondayâs bombing, as a huge funeral procession descended into violence along a major highway in the southern city of Karachi. Hundreds of police fired tear gas at the crowd. Perhaps this is a new version of the Car Swarm.
#1
We usually hear that Muslims are only interested in attacking western imperialists and infidels. We hear that Muslims are incapable of attacking fellow Muslims. Yet with every passing day, we see that Muslims are fully capable of attacking innocent Muslims as well as outsiders. Rage has fully penetrated the religion--excuses abound, but no justification will be forthcoming from the umma.
#2
The definitioon of "infidel" is very fluid. Christians and Jews are the preferred enemies, but if you're a Sunni or Shiite you're free to hate the Ahmadis and the Ismailis. If you're a Sunni you can hate the Shiites. If you're a wahhabi you can lump all non-wahhabis in with the Sufis and hate them all as infidels, apostates, and polytheists.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/01/2004 18:53 Comments ||
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There is a certain number of Iraqi terrorists that either need to give up, reconsider their militancy, leave the country, or be killed for there to be peace and the emergence of a consensual government. Given the fiery sermons of al Sadr, the cadres of Baathist hold-outs, the horrific assassination of peace-loving Iraqi officials, and the constant bombing of American soldiers, it may well require the latter ultimate fate. We do not know the exact number of enemies that must be eliminated, but only that it will grow exponentiallyâalong with Iraqi and coalition deathsâunless we act decisively.
By the same token, there are a limited number of Americans that we can allow to be killed in Iraq before the American people tire of it allâwho nearly three years after watching the bodies freefall from the World Trade Center on 9-11 are forgetting their immediate peril from al Qaedists and the rogue governments that enable such terrorists to operate. At some critical point to come, Americans will no longer see the sacrifice of their precious youth as worth the effort in Iraq to ensure consensual government and our own long-term securityâand at that point they will simply say no mas.
Again, we do not know how many fatalities we as a nation can endure, only that in our present postmodern society the number for good or evil is far lower than was true in World War II, Korea, or Vietnam. Our grandfathers rightly accepted that 600 might be lost in a terrible night on Okinawa if such a sacrifice meant freedom from Japanese militarism; we wrongly believe that the present 600 combat dead this past year were either not worth the effort, all preventable, or in no real way connected to the safety of 300 million at home. My rough guess is that once the toll exceeds 1,000 combat dead, the United States will be seriously looking for a rapid exit strategy regardless of the dire circumstances involved.
#1
i dont think theres a magic number - i think it depends on whether americans see the casualties balanced by progress towards goals. there had been a considerable number of casualties up through Jan 1, but the people accepted them, since they saw the capture of Saddam, and steady progress on reconstruction. The casualties in April were in the context of a host of images suggesting failure, the deaths in Fallujah, and the rebellion of the Sadrists. The gradual victory over the Sadrists, the principal accomplishment of the US military in May, was obscured by the Abu Ghraib scandal.
Now, with a new Iraqi govt, there may be increasing focus on real events in Iraq. We need to keep our eye on the ball, and keep moving forward. If we're moving forward its no quagmire, and the people will see it, even if US deaths stay as high as in May. If there is no progress even lower casualties will not stop the view that its a quagmire.
#2
What do mean "once the death toll exceeds 1000?" The death toll has already exceeded 1000. The Bush Administration is not counting U.S Soldiers that died after their injuries. The Bush Administration is not counting former military soldiers (contracters), whom I still consider U.S Soldiers, that died. The death toll is well over a 1000. Let's all wake up from the Pentagon spin.
#3
Anonymous5078 -- Provide a source, please. Are you saying that 200 U.S. contractors and soldiers and Marines former listed as WIA are now KIA? I would love to see some credible evidence of that. Remember, we're talking about OIF casualties, not OEF.
Posted by: Tibor ||
06/01/2004 13:24 Comments ||
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#4
"The Bush Administration is not counting U.S Soldiers that died after their injuries."
Yeah they are you moron.
"The Bush Administration is not counting former military soldiers (contracters), whom I still consider U.S Soldiers, that died. "
Maybe you do in your deluded little world, but no one else does.
#5
The death toll went over 1,000 on that horrible September morning.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/01/2004 13:49 Comments ||
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#6
..Once the combat toll hits 1000, look for all the mass media to make some kind of 'milestone' out of it and ask whether or not it is worth it. (To put it in perspective, asking whether or not we should bail after 1000 dead would have had us off Omaha Beach within an hour or two of the landings...)
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
06/01/2004 13:49 Comments ||
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#7
The total dead so far in OIF over the last 13 months, from combat and from accidents and other causes, is equal to just under 7 days worth of U.S. highway traffic fatalities.
If someone would like to explain to me why I should be in a panic over the former, but not the latter, I'm all ears.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
06/01/2004 14:16 Comments ||
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#8
You can call me all the names in the world. I don't give a crap. I am also a "Damn_Proud_American. There is no comparison between the war in Iraq and Afganisthan. There is no comparison between the war Iraq and Omaha Beach. We should have nuked Afganisthan and when the media shows burned babies then we will show 3000 burned Americans. I did once, but I will no longer support a personal war between Bush and Saddam. Why should I care if Saddam wants to kill a bunch of Iraqis? The Shitte mass graves in Iraq were created by the first Bush, anyway. If Saddam attacks the U.S., we destroy Iraq, not this sissy nation building we are doing now. I don't care for the Iraqi hearts and minds. I am NOT falling for the Bushies spin on this war. I will never be for building any nation. If the Bushies want free Iraqis, lets start of with all Africa, all of the Middle East, China and North Korea. Iraq is a freaking waste of blood, sweat, money, and time. If anyone wants to call me names for not supporting Bush, you have the FREEDOM to do so.
#9
was it not 500 men a minute lost during the harshed landings of D-day,was it not similar numbers during the campaign of assaults on Islands held by the Japanese, yes it was.Was it not around 52,000 or so that died during the Vietnam campaign. My point is to overthrow a vicious tyrant like Sammy wasn't ever gonna be casulaty free but 'fuck a' were here now a year or so on and the death toll of allied troops combined is probably about 1100. That rough figure (probably lower) is a reflection of the increadble skill right from the highest stratigic level to the smallest tactical squad on the ground,yes things have gone wrong but any war will always throw your plans into disarray but getting the plan back on track roughly where you want to get to is all part of what armies have to do. Sometimes all the bleating of Lefties about how we killed 20'000 Iraqi women and children (no men of course) and how it was all for oil, supposedly anyway, I do briefly wonder should this venture have been undertaken to capture/kill Sammy and try to sort the region outor should we just have done nothing and watch as decade after decade takes its toll on hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's, possibaly miilions if left unchecked? I'm no friend of the Sunnis and Shias and shit but it would be good for everyone in the world if people wern't slaves of opressive regimes like Sammy had set up or Kimmy has in North Korea. the Baathist type regimes are just as big a threat if not more so then the Nazi's.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
06/01/2004 14:30 Comments ||
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#10
"My rough guess is that once the toll exceeds 1,000 combat dead, the United States will be seriously looking for a rapid exit strategy regardless of the dire circumstances involved."
Go back to the original estimates and it looks like we've run a masterful campaign.
Denver Rocky Mountain News; Nov 2002: "We see that former Sen. Gary Hart has joined those who have parted the veil to the future and foreseen the number of U.S. killed and wounded in a possible war with Iraq. Hart's estimate: 5,000 to 10,000 casualties."
Chicago Tribune, Dec 2002: "Estimates of the number of American soldiers that could be killed on a war in Iraq have ranged from less than 1,000 to as many as 5,000, perhaps more if chemical or biological weapons are used."
Posted by: Frank ||
06/01/2004 14:47 Comments ||
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#13
i do think the campaign has almost been masterfull,yeah yeah the lefties will ball and screach quamire but a car bomb and few morters being lobed around does not constitute chaos.There may well be trouble spot cities but these are diminshing in thier capacity to carry on thier campaign of oppresion when they are confined in these hell hole cities,the people that live there are wisening up everyday as can be seen by the gradual whitlling away of Sadr's little 'army' of goons. Unless something big and it'd have to be real big happens soon i think the terror mongers will get board and move on to another theatre of 'operations', perhaps going to Afganistan or Sudan.Every day Iraq moves forward the bad guys are taking two steps back. It may not seem that way from the constant images of burning Datsuns freshly boomed in the street to constant peddaling of Abu-Gurib photos claiming America are now Nazi's or some other shit but 5 - 10 years down the road the place and people that live there could certainly be a whole lot better off and the screeching left may hopefully STFU!
Posted by: Shep UK ||
06/01/2004 16:44 Comments ||
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#14
Allow me to attempt to quote WWII Gen George LaMay:" Let me tell you about war. You need to kill people until the other side has had enough and stops fighting."
I wonder if the NPR interviewer swooned.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/01/2004 17:00 Comments ||
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Uganda-The Vice-President, Prof. Gilbert Bukenya, has vowed to penalise Christian-founded FM radio stations allegedly demonising the Muslim faith. âIf there are radios stirring dust we have to condemn them. I have to listen to these radios and investigate them. We shall summon the owners of these radios because this isnât good and it must stop,â he said. Bukenya, who was meeting a delegation of muslim leaders at his country home in Kakiri, was reacting to the Mufti, Sheikh Shaban Ramadhan Mubajjeâs statement that Impact FM, Top Radio and Power FM demonised Islam. He said the radio owners should be summoned to his office to respond to complaints, promising to raise the issue in Cabinet. Mubajje, who said one of the radios had described Muhammad as a promiscuous man, asked the Government to control the radios lest the broadcasts spark off an unprecedented war.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
06/01/2004 11:21:45 AM ||
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#4
Muhammed probably suffered from syphilis, and a host of other brain rotting ailments.
That would explain his demented ravings and the ravings of his catamites...er...acolytes that he most likely corn-holed on a regular basis.
-AR
P.S. Islam (Muhammedanism) is FAKE!!!
Posted by: Analog Roam ||
06/01/2004 12:27 Comments ||
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#5
Mo-ham-head was a pedophile. When he tired of having sex with children and other people's wives, he had sex with camels and whatever other livestock he could find.
#10
My two thousand sand flies infest this Ugandian jokers dwelling...tonight.
Peace be upon the sand flies. :)
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/01/2004 14:30 Comments ||
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#11
Sounds to me like the Uganda Vice-President is not exactly defending Islam, he's hoping to avoid a holy war because the Muslims have such thin skin regarding their religion.
Of course if he has any integrity he'd start listening to what the Imams are preaching during the usual Friday hatefest at the Mosques.
#15
Perhaps I will forward this to the Ugandan VP, so he can diseminate among the locals. I mean they can't hate us any more plus I think we are up to Jihad #15,078. I can see it now...."Muhammed"..."What oh wise one"..."They have mocked our women and our camels"...."Our Camels they have mocked?".."Yes oh wise one"...."This means one thing JEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAD"
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
06/01/2004 17:17 Comments ||
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#16
Is there not a troll delete function for our buddy Faisal? Actually, some pretty stupid language from both sides of the ailse here today. Most of this thread should be deleted. Lets elevate the rhetoric a bit shall we.
Posted by: remote man ||
06/01/2004 17:20 Comments ||
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#18
"Rabbi Joseph said, 'Come and hear. A maiden aged 3 years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition.' Mishnah: A girl of the age of 3 years and a day may be betrothed, subject to her father's approval, by sexual intercourse. ...Gemara: Our Rabbis taught: 'A girl of the age of 3 years may be betrothed by sexual intercourse.' "
Where's he getting this stuff? From the talmud?(!)
#19
Prolly pulled it out of his ass or The Elders of Zion - oops! I repeat myself! Fuck off, Faisal. You're just another shit for brains Jooo Hater.
We've weighed your civilization and that of the Jooos. In every aspect of substance, yours was found wanting and theirs was obviously sterling. Focused in the rear-view mirror of History, you missed the pivotal re-think and re-evalutation. Your Jooo-Hating Euro Butt Buddies aren't writing it anymore, we are: You're the most glaring losers in History. FOAD.
#21
You can't fight bigotry by displaying ignorance: That's a real quote from the Talmud.
Here's the Talmud: http://www.come-and-hear.com/talmud/index.html
And here's the passage in question: http://www.come-and-hear.com/niddah/niddah_44.html (search the text for "betrothed" and you'll find it)
So it exists -- if this site is accurate atleast.
But why does it surprise you? I've argued before that Judaism wasn't better than Islam in its origins. Even in the Torah, Moses commands all non-virgin women of the Midianites slaughtered, but the virgin girls he handed over to the Israelites for purposes of rape. That's in the Bible and easy to check.
#24
Aris is referring to the work of Elizabeth Dilling, an anti-Communist writer. Have not been able to research her further. The talmud features Rabbinic commentaries and instruction.
#25
I do not know anything about her -- but if anyone knows that the translation of the Talmud I linked to is inaccurate or even deliberately distorted, I'd appreciate it if I was told about it, so that I do not use it for reference again.
#26
The Only false religion in the world is Judaism. All evil in this world stems from Joooos (cousins of Pigs and Monkeys) --- no wonder they are genetically different. I wonder what Hitler did wrong not to finish these parasites. Read the shitty pissy talmud in which (fucking) Rabbis have sex with 3 year olds. lol. What a bunch of suckers.
"Rabbi Joseph said, 'Come and hear. A maiden aged 3 years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition.' Mishnah: A girl of the age of 3 years and a day may be betrothed, subject to her father's approval, by sexual intercourse. ...Gemara: Our Rabbis taught: 'A girl of the age of 3 years may be betrothed by sexual intercourse.' "
On my last trip, I had to piss on the Wall of Solomon ... Felt so good :-).
Look at how many times these bastards have been kicked out by different nations. Any good book on history will tell you that. Here's how they were honored:
The Jews have been run out of every single country in Europe and other places too...
Year Place
1. 250: Carthage
2. 415: Alexandria
3. 554: Diocese of Clement (France)
4. 561: Diocese of Uzzes (France)
5. 612: Visigoth Spain
6. 642: Visigoth Empire
7. 855: Italy
8. 876: Sens
9. 1012: Mayence
10. 1181: France
11. 1290: England
12. 1306: France
13. 1348: Switzerland
14. 1349: Hielbronn (Germany)
15. 1349: Hungary
16. 1388: Strasbourg
17. 1394: Germany
18. 1394: France
19. 1422: Austria
20. 1424: Fribourg & Zurich
21. 1426: Cologne
22. 1432: Savory
23. 1438: Mainz
24. 1439: Augsburg
25. 1446: Bavaria
26. 1453: Franconis
27. 1453: Breslau
28. 1454: Wurzburg
29. 1485: Vincenza (Italy)
30. 1492: Spain
31. 1495: Lithuania
32. 1497: Portugal
33. 1499: Germany
34. 1514: Strasbourg
35. 1519: Regensburg
36. 1540: Naples
37. 1542: Bohemia
38. 1550: Genoa
39. 1551: Bavaria
40. 1555: Pesaro
41. 1559: Austria
42. 1561: Prague
43. 1567: Wurzburg
44. 1569: Papal States
45. 1571: Brandenburg
46. 1582: Netherlands
47. 1593: Brandenburg, Austria
48. 1597: Cremona, Pavia & Lodi
49. 1614: Frankfort
50. 1615: Worms51. 1619: Kiev
52. 1649: Ukraine
53. 1654: LittleRussia
54. 1656: Lithuania
55. 1669: Oran (North Africa)
56. 1670: Vienna
57. 1712: Sandomir
58. 1727: Russia
59. 1738: Wurtemburg
60. 1740: Little Russia
61. 1744: Bohemia
62. 1744: Livonia
63. 1745: Moravia
64. 1753: Kovad (Lithuania)
65. 1761: Bordeaux
66. 1772: Jews deported to the Pale of Settlement (Russia)
67. 1775: Warsaw
68. 1789: Alace
69. 1804: Villages in Russia
70. 1808: Villages & Countrysides (Russia)
71. 1815: Lubeck & Bremen
72. 1815: Franconia, Swabia & Bavaria
73. 1820: Bremes
74. 1843: Russian Border Austria & Prussia
75. 1862: Area in the U.S. under Grant's Jurisdiction
76. 1866: Galatz, Romania
77. 1919: Bavaria (foreign born Jews)
78. 1938-45: Nazi Controlled Areas
79. 1948: Arab Countries
Cool eh. So now all your motherfuckers go and change the history books too. The Only Loser race on earth.....
#27
Muhammed? I fucked him. He wanted it all sorts of nasty ways, but I told him,"Hey! No way am I having a four way between you me, a 10 year old boy, and a camel."
I draw the line at children, and besides, the camel was a male, and I am not into that either.
Well that hot tempered little kkkoranimal declared Jiahd on me. What a pervert, and a prick.
Anyway, the sex was good. He sucked me off pretty well.
#29
Not only was muhammad promiscuous....he was a dicksucking queer bastard. He was also a child molesting pervert. islam is a gutter religion. Monkeys, skunks and pigs make better neighbors.
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
06/01/2004 11:30 Comments ||
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#30
And shaikh means "robed one who takes camel penis into mouth..."
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
06/01/2004 16:03 Comments ||
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Police exchanged fire with rioting mourners Tuesday as thousands gathered for the funerals of 20 killed in an apparent suicide bombing at a crowded Shiite Muslim mosque, the latest terrorist attack in Pakistanâs largest city. About 200 angry Shiites set fire to three buses, a bank, bus company offices and shops housed in one building a few doors down from the mosque hit in Mondayâs bombing. Hundreds of police fired tear gas at the crowd along a major highway in the southern city. Police and rioters exchanged gunfire in several locations, witnesses said. There was no immediate word on injuries. The unrest began after the mob started stoning police. The bombing ripped through the mosque during evening prayers on Monday, and the death toll rose to 20 Tuesday when four of the injured died of their wounds. At least 75 were injured. The attack sparked nighttime rioting by hundreds of enraged Shiite youths who burned shops, cars, a bank and a government building and blocked highways and the main rail line. A shootout between rioters and police left three people dead. On Tuesday, Shiite Muslim clerics urged mourners to show restraint during funerals for the bombing victims. "Everybody who is a Muslim should understand that some elements want (to) create unrest," said Yousaf Hussain, a Shiite leader. "They are the enemy of Pakistan and Islam, and I ask you to understand this conspiracy and show patience."
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
06/01/2004 10:54:55 AM ||
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#1
What? A "conspiracy" of Moslems against other Moslems? Isn't that supposed to be impossible in an Islamic state? Moslems bombing mosques . . .? Well, well, well . . . Guess it's like I've always said. If they're not fighting us, they'll fight each other. It's just the way they are. They LIKE to fight. Makes 'em feel like "big" guys.
#2
I dont think "they" "like to fight". I see no evidence that Pakistani Shia like to fight. Rather whats happened is that Wahabi/deobandi extremists have been attacking the Shia, with the govt, afraid to rock the Deobandi boat, and with fundie infiltration in the army and ISI, looking in the other direction. The Shia finally got sick of this, and knocked off one of the more hateful Sunni fundie Imams. The Sunni Jihadis did the dire revenge thing, blowing up civilians in a mosque (revenge for killing an imam, blowing up 20 people in a suicide bombing - does this sound familiar? which side is playing the role of the Israelis, I ask) So the Shia are gonna riot and turn the place upside down till the security forces actually do something to protect them. Makes sense to me.
#3
Yes, they do like to fight, Liberalhawk. It is an integral part of their identity. I'm sorry they're not more like you, but they're not. When they spout the crap about being Moslem "brothers," it's just talk. All of their "values' go by the wayside once they are "humiliated." And Liberalhawk , I have no trouble whatsoever, labeling them "they." I've known a lot of "them" and "they" are that way, whether it fits your groove or not. It's a tendency in Arab culture. Mostly they talk big, but now it's gone beyond that, on a regular basis across the world.
As least I have hope for you , though: "which side is playing the role of the Israelis, I ask" Keep asking, but I don't think you're gonna like what you find.
No doubt we can all be happy when some of this seems "understandable." But before you get too comfy, remember, they'd attack you (you infidel) and yours, if they could ever find you--and guess what? They'd have their "understandable" reasons--the reasons of the moment.
#4
Well, that's a nice, balanced view, ex-lib. It's arrogant, stereotyping, and completely racistic. There are nutters in every culture, they just happen to be more prominent in the Muslim one, but I'm damn certain that there're white fratboys who'd gladly take guns to each other, except that CNN doesn't show those stories half as much.
You've known a lot of "them"? Give me an example. I've known a lot of "them", too, because I grew up in Asia, and as far as I can tell the Moslem culture is as sane as the Christian one, for example.
#6
#4.It's arrogant, stereotyping, and completely racistic.
And right on the money as well!
I too have known a LOT of "them", how "they" act and what "they" believe is the rule and not the exception.
Remember, stereotypes are not created out of thin air.
-RB
Posted by: Rock Bottom ||
06/01/2004 14:24 Comments ||
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#7
Muslims: Why do they hate themselves?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/01/2004 14:32 Comments ||
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#8
Thanks dcreeper.
And EvilStorm: are you in (gasp) denial? For crying out loud--your comparison of Islamic terrorists and Arab Moslems in general, with white American fratboys, is ludicrous. Trust me--if frat houses were shooting at each other, or even planning to, CNN would be all over it. One more example of "domestic failures in the Bush administration." More Moslems than you'd like to admit, love the "call" to fight, and fighting is a big part of their self-concepts.
My suggestion is that you search the Rantburg Archives for about a week, before attempting to enroll in Rantburg University. You are seriously in need of an education. Any appropriate word will suffice: bomb, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, rape, Sudan, psychology, Taliban, Afghanistan, women, Palestine--just get started somewhere.
P.S. What Asian country did you up in? Indonesia? If so, then you would have a different view of Islam than is practiced and accepted in the Middle East--a kind of Hindu, island version. They're not so bad.
#9
Does anyone else here obtain a sense of delicious irony from the fact that the typically ultra-violent Shiites are getting a dose of their own medicine? Too bad we can't set all of the Sunni and Shiite fanatics loose in a sealed stadium and let them have at it. They deserve each other.
#10
Not me. Historically, the Shia have been the more cosmopolitan, tolerant and diverse of the Muslim communities, 20th-21st century Iranian mullahs notwithstanding.
#11
As bad as it is for the Shia in Pakistan, it may be worse in Bangladesh. On the other hand, quite a few Sunni in Iran have been repressed for the past few decades.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
06/01/2004 19:16 Comments ||
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#13
Not me. Historically, the Shia have been the more cosmopolitan, tolerant and diverse of the Muslim communities, 20th-21st century Iranian mullahs notwithstanding.
Then what is the core reason for predominately Shiite Iran sponsoring so much terrorist violence? I can understand how a traditionally repressed minority might have a more tolerant worldview, but Iran seems to contradict this.
#14
Then what is the core reason for predominately Shiite Iran sponsoring so much terrorist violence? They copied the Wahabist playbook because it was working so well in gaining converts.
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/01/2004 21:32 Comments ||
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#15
An Observation, FWIW, that matches the "facts":
Where in the minority, they are as rkb describes them - their behavior is definitely the more rational of the 2 sects - more urbane, technical, open, tolerant. Perhaps the tyranny of the Sunnis, which is very real, is the main cause.
Where in the majority, and that has historically been only in Iran up to now, with Iraqi Shi'a coming into their own soon, their leaders seem to be something else entirely - and, of course, this certainly encourages the thugs (at least) to step forward to be part of the power structure.
#16
>RB: Give me an example, then. Because I can give you lots of examples to the contrary.
>ex-lib: Denial, no, I do feel that what I'm saying is true. Okay, maybe the fratboy analogy was dumb, sorry 'bout that then. Was just trying to say that there're insane fuckwits in every culture, white, black, Asian, Islam, but it doesn't mean that the race as a whole is wacked. The nuts just happen to come to the top in the Arab world, and drag the rest of the people along with them, cos they don't know any better. Sort of what .com said, but different. I mean, if you've been taught (as Christians have, don't forget) that there will be a time for you to stand up and fight against evil, and some megalomaniac comes along and deludes you into believing that this is the time--what would you do? Besides, there're "normal" Arabs out there who don't want their hometowns bombed to bits, who'd rather the fanatics just got themselves killed, already.
Ah, grew up in Singapore, but we're next to Malaysia, so we've got the whole neighbour thing going.
Jordanâs Islamists issued a religious edict Tuesday banning the deployment of Arab forces in Iraq as long as the U.S.-led occupation persists. "Whoever offers a service to help Iraqâs occupation is an atheist and any Arab or Muslim country which deploys troops in Iraq under American occupation would be committing treason," said Ibrahim al-Kilani, the head of religious committee at the Islamic Action Front, Jordanâs leading opposition party. Al-Kilani said the edict bans Arabs and Muslims from contributing peacekeeping forces to Iraq after the Coalition Provisional Authority hands over power to an interim Iraqi government June 30. Arab League Secretary-General Amr Mousa said last month Arab states wonât dispatch troops to Iraq after June 30 unless a U.N. Security Council mandate is in place or Iraq submits an official request.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
06/01/2004 10:31:09 AM ||
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#1
Well this is interesting. Wonder what ol' King Abdullah will have to say (or do) about it?
KANDAHAR: U.S.-led troops killed six members of Afghanistan's ousted Taliban regime in a raid today in Zabul, a provincial military official said. The six Taliban were killed in a surprise attack by U.S.-led soldiers in the Sori district of Zabul province, division commander Nimatullah Tokhi told Reuters from Qalat, the provincial capital.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/01/2004 9:41:48 AM ||
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#1
"Surprise!"
BAM!
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/01/2004 9:51 Comments ||
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#2
Nah, first you shoot, then you say "Surprise!".
Posted by: Steve ||
06/01/2004 11:32 Comments ||
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#6
In 'Nam, we were supposed to yell "halt" three times before we shot. That means, "halt, halt, halt,", then "blam". Did you know that you can yell "halt" three times, empty the clip of an M-16, and change clips, all in two and a half seconds?
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/01/2004 15:42 Comments ||
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U.S. Casualties in Iraq Top 200, Rising.
By ROBERT BURNS
Oh, wad some pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursel's as others see us...
EFL. The headline on CNN.com was "Death Toll: U.S. Iraq Casualties Set Record."
American troops in Iraq died in May at a rate of more than two per day, pushing the combined death count for April and May beyond 200, according to Pentagon figures. For the National Guard and Reserve, whose part-time soldiers make up at least one-third of the 135,000 American troops in Iraq, the trend in casualties during May was especially troubling. At least 22 citizen soldiers died, nearly one-third of all U.S. losses in May. As a percentage of the monthâs death toll, that is about double what it had been in most previous months of the war. It also shows that the Guard and Reserve are bearing an increasing combat load. Letâs contact Guinness! Itâs a record that just slightly more people have died in the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars than died when the USS Indianapolis went down?
May was deadlier than most previous months, but far less so than April, when the death toll was 136. That was by far the highest for any month since U.S. forces invaded in March 2003. The bloody fight for the city of Fallujah raged throughout April but has calmed down in the past few weeks. In total, the Iraq conflict has taken the lives of more than 800 American troops so far, and last week the Pentagon reported that the number wounded in action is approaching 4,700. The military says it continues to make progress in stabilizing Iraq, but the steadily rising death toll has become a political burden for a White House that also is focused on re-election. ...
Among the 22 citizen soldiers killed in May was Staff Sgt. William D. Chaney, of the Illinois Army National Guard. At age 59, he was the oldest soldier to die in Iraq since the invasion began. Chaney, of Schaumburg, Ill., died May 18 at a U.S. military hospital in Germany of complications following surgery for a noncombat related condition that he developed while in Iraq. So now death from a "noncombat related condition" = "killed?" Also, "died at a U.S. military hospital in Germany" = "die[d] in Iraq?"
Posted by: Tibor ||
06/01/2004 4:41:44 AM ||
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CNN is no fav of mine but Burns writes for AP - another asswipe service posing as a news organization.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
06/01/2004 9:38 Comments ||
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#2
No other network manipulates the pain of American loss more and attempts to burden Americans with (undeserved) national guilt more than CNN.
#3
I'm flipping channels yesterday and saw their moveon.org commercial featuring the Evil Rumsfeld and the hooded Statue of Liberty (nice touch on Memorial Day). Funny how I haven't seen that anywhere else.
Well, maybe not.
#4
The Islamics are easily willing to "sacrifice" thousands and thousands and thousands of soldiers in this war against the West, because they know that many Americans (and Europeans) will "freak out" over the loss of even several hundred. They see this as a weakness on America's part--a weakness which they are more than happy to exploit. They will keep it up until we no longer have "the stomach" for casualties.
Funny, though. We'd get done with this necessary situation a lot faster if the American people could access reliable information telling them what this conflict is really about and what's at stake. Nobody here really likes other people who "want to take over the world." And yes, the Islamics do want to take over the world. Sounds crazy, but Hitler and Stalin sounded crazy too, in their day.
#5
The ANTI-WAR/ANTI-AMERICAN propaganda pumped out by the ABCNBCCBS NETWORK differs from that of CNN only in that the ABCNBCCBS NETWORK propaganda programming reaches 100 times more viewers than does the most watched/read CNN propaganda offering. To WIN wars, it is necessary to have the support of the men and women in uniform, the support of the government and the support of the civilian population. The ABCNBCCBS NETWORK, the MSNBCCNBCCNN CABLE CHANNEL, the NYTimes, USAToday and the DCPost are working successfully for their ISLMO-FASCIST BUDDIES in turning Americans against a WAR of SELF-DEFENSE. Give me a FORMAL DECLARATION OF WAR which will allow the propagandists to be rounded up, herded into cattle cars and sent to concentration camps until the WAR is WON.
#6
His wife, Carol, said the autopsy results were not complete Thursday but that some type of infection of the appendix and small intestine was suspected.
He suffered from complications - possibly a blood clot that caused cardiac arrest - after surgery to correct the original problem, she said.
Plain English : "Complications from Appendicitis" is a new type of combat death.
#8
#4. ...if the American people could access reliable information telling them what this conflict is really about and what's at stake.
Well, they can access reliable information if they so desire. But it might mean missing an episode of, (insert some show here), and we just couldn't have that. Also, you assume that they would believe/care. Most American are not going to wake up until they are being pulled from their homes and killed on their front lawns.
Then they will cry: "But why didn't "someone" tell me!"
Sounds crazy, but Hitler and Stalin sounded crazy too, in their day.
#9
#5. Give me a FORMAL DECLARATION OF WAR which will allow the propagandists to be rounded up, herded into cattle cars and sent to concentration camps until the WAR is WON.
Actually, give me a FDoW, a roundup, a quick trial and conviction for TREASON, followed by a SUMMARY EXECUTION!
#10
You all need to learn to be a good deal more genteel in dealing with the fifth column press.
There is something we can do to news people that is more horrific than mass execution: Place their advertisers on notice that their covereage is being watched and the news outlets will get it from two directions if they don't report accurately.
A liberal will scream and yell about censorship if you try to block a slanted news story; they will scream and lose all control over their bodily functions when it comes to summary trials of themselves or their other socialist allies: but take away their paychecks and they are good little boys and girls who just want to do the right thing.
Trust me: the threat of losing all that advertsing revenue is far stronger than any empty threat of summary trials and executions. Plus, and here's the best part: It's do-able.
#11
Master Cylinder : What I meant was, that is sounded crazy to the unsuspecting that Hitler and Stalin ACTUALLY (really and truly) wanted to take over the world--just like it sounds crazy to alot of people that the Islamics acturally want to create a one world thing, with themselves in charge! But like, Hitler and Stalin, they're serious about it. Next, as much as I'd like to agree with you about the idiocy of some Americans, I still think that if they were provided acturate info through the major news outlets, the WOT would have a lot more suport.
Hooray! badanov is totally correct. We can blab all we want, but threaten their advertisers with boycotts, and suddenly, you'll start seeing a big change.
#12
ex-lib: What I meant was, that is sounded crazy to the unsuspecting that Hitler and Stalin...
I understood your point. My point was that they sounded crazy, were actually crazy, and people still expressed disbelief in that craziness.
I still think that if they were provided acturate info through the major news outlets...
Some would accept the information, and others would not. I am in the camp that believes it will take a tragedy, or series of tragedies equal to or greater than 9-11-01 to get EVERYONE to acknowledge the true scope of the problem. My appologies for the run on sentence.
#16
Garrison, CNN (and to a similar extent the BBC) are not aimed at domestic audiences, they are aimed at foreign audiences and CNN reaches more people than the entire US population.
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/01/2004 22:43 Comments ||
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From The Los Angeles Times
.... For two months, someone has been kidnapping the best doctors in Iraq. Health officials and doctors estimate that as many as 100 surgeons, specialists and general physicians have been abducted from their homes and clinics since the beginning of April. Some were beaten and tortured. Most were released after the payment of between $20,000 and $200,000 in ransom. .... Some doctors who have not been kidnapped have fled Iraq ...
Ransom, it seems, is not the only motivation for the crimes. In many cases, abductors have ordered the physicians to leave Iraq, sometimes setting a deadline. Iraqi officials fear that the abductions and threats are an organized attempt to cripple the countryâs healthcare network ....
The list of kidnapping victims and those who have fled the country is a whoâs who of Iraqâs medical establishment. A pioneer in renal transplants. Saddam Husseinâs former plastic surgeon. And Abid Hadi Khalily, who was voted Best Arabic Doctor in 1998 by the Pan Arab Medical Union. The top cataract surgeon at a leading eye hospital in Baghdad, Dr. Jawad Shakarchi, moved to London after being abducted from his garage in April. ....
Many of the doctors also taught at Baghdad Universityâs College of Medicine. Officials there said a quarter of the schoolâs surgeons have gone or have requested temporary leaves next year. .... Some schools are having to limit enrollment for advanced studies until they can be sure there will be enough doctors to teach. ....
The Iraqi Central Criminal Court is investigating three cases of doctor kidnapping, including one allegedly involving employees of the Iraqi National Congress, the political party founded by controversial Governing Council member Ahmad Chalabi that was once funded by the Pentagon. A recent raid of Chalabiâs home in Baghdad was partly based upon a doctorâs claims that INC employees had apprehended him. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 6:26:50 AM ||
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"Iraqi officials fear that the abductions and threats are an organized attempt to cripple the countryâs healthcare network .... The list of kidnapping victims and those who have fled the country is a whoâs who of Iraqâs medical establishment. "
Moslems supporting and loving their fellow Moslems. Ain't it grand!
Governing Council leader Ghazi al Yawar has been given the job of Iraqâs new president.He was appointed after US-backed Adnan Pachachi turned the job down. The choice had been between 81-year-old Mr Pachachi and al Yawar but there had also been talk that a third surprise candidate may have been nominated. UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi has confirmed al Yawar as the choice. In Mosul, al Yawerâs hometown, crowds swept into the streets to celebrate the news, cheering and firing weapons into the air. American soldiers there appealed for calm. He will be supported by two vice presidents, who have been named as Ibrahim al Jaafari and Rowsch Shaways...
Meanwhile the jihadis planned a welcome boom or two
At least 25 people have been killed in a series of explosions in the Iraqi capital of Baghdad, local police have said. The blasts took place near the headquarters of a Kurdish party, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. Reports indicated that at least three security guards were among those killed. Police at the scene said that in addition to the deaths, at least 20 people had been wounded. Early reports had indicated that the attacks were centred on the Green Zone headquarters of the US-led Coalition. The Kurdish HQ is located near the Iraqi Foreign Ministry and an entrance to the Green Zone...
Posted by: Lux ||
06/01/2004 6:16:22 AM ||
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This fellow Yawar, although a Sunni, has a number of Shiite members in the area he represents and has good relationships with them.
Thats part of the reason why the GCouncil liked him.
#3
seriously, i am very hopeful about this govt. Allawi is a Shiite, but secularist, yet with good ties to Sistani. Yawer is a Sunni, not as secularist as Pachachi, but not as tied in to Brahimi and the Arab establishment either, and he has good ties to Shias and Kurds. A tribal leader, but with an engineering degree from Georgetown. the two vps - Jaafari - yeah im no fan of Dawa, but this isnt a real threatening position, and hes played by the rules so far, and hes balanced by the other VP, a Kurd. Youve to a Kurd as FM, and another as Dept PM for national security. THIS IS NOT a govt that will crack down on Kurdish rights. Some of the more junior cabinet members seem to be more technocrat types. And two women in the cabinet, if I count correctly.
A major advance I think. Good luck to them, theyve got their work cut out for them.
From The Wall Street Journal, an article by Brendan Miniter
.... Today, however, the city [Fallujah] of 200,000 is relatively quiet, and thereâs little reporting on why. To find out how the Marines were able to pacify a city in the heart of the Sunni Triangle -- despite accusations that they were shrinking from a fight for political reasons -- I spoke with Col. John Coleman, who is in Fallujah and is chief of staff for the First Marine Expeditionary Force, which is in charge of about one-third of the land mass of Iraq. ....
As they were battling through the city two months ago, the Marines realized they could easily crush the insurgency in Fallujah but in the process would "rubble the city." That would leave thousands of Marines patrolling the city, repairing infrastructure and trying to build working relationships with the inhabitants who remained. "That doesnât work us out of a job," Col. Coleman told me. Nor would it leave the Marines free to conduct other operations.
What they needed to do was drive wedges into the enemy ranks -- divide and conquer. From studying the enemy, the Marines realized the insurgents can be separated into five disparate groups with widely varying goals: foreign fighters (some of whom are very skilled bomb makers), religious extremists, violent criminals released from prison by Saddam and willing to kill for money, Saddam loyalists (those Col. Coleman described as "bloody up to their elbows" in the old regime) and former military personnel.
The Saddam-look-alike former general who turned up to help coalition forces in Fallujah notwithstanding, that last group offered the best opportunity. It turns out there are a lot of former military personnel in Fallujah. These are mostly Sunni men who were professional soldiers and are patriotic and proud of their military service. Many sat out the invasion last year believing the coalitionâs promise that if they abandoned Saddam, they would have a future in the new Iraq. But since the fall of the regime, the coalition hadnât provided them with any opportunity for meaningful work. As a consequence, many were joining the insurgency.
Thatâs when a former Iraqi general stepped forward and promised the Marines that within 24 hours he could assemble 300 Iraqis ready to battle the insurgents. The next day he met his promise and within a few days the ranks of the brigade swelled to 900 men. Col. Coleman tells me there are so many former Iraq soldiers willing to fight insurgents that the "Fallujah Brigade" could easily grow to several thousand if the Marines would let it.
Among other things, this brigade became a liaison between the coalition and the local imams, sheiks and Fallujah city fathers. One by one these groups were peeled away from the insurgents. Now none of the mosques in Fallujah are calling for jihad, local politicians are coordinating with coalition forces in rebuilding city infrastructure -- the Marines have approximately $500 million to spend in Iraq -- and the Fallujah Brigade is patrolling the streets. Ninety percent of the intelligence the Marines get on insurgents comes from Iraqi sources.
The secret was to make "good hearted" Iraqis into stakeholders in a peaceful Fallujah. The unreported story in Iraq is that this insurgency would continue uninterrupted even if coalition forces withdrew tomorrow. Itâs not an anticoalition insurgency as much as it is a war against the establishment of a peaceful, stable society in Iraq.
The Fallujah Brigade, however, doesnât have free rein. The Marines constantly test it to make sure it is fulfilling the coalitionâs goals. These tests include submitting to civilian rule, taking large-caliber weapons off the streets, ensuring the rule of law is prevailing in the city, working with and positively influencing city fathers, and adhering to all the Geneva Conventions and rules of war that the Marines themselves must follow. So far the brigade is passing these tests. But one area in which it must do better is helping to investigate, capture and prosecute those responsible for killing and then mutilating the four Americans in March. If the brigade ever fails to meet these tests, Col. Coleman says it will be disbanded. And if it is to live on past the June 30 handover, it must also be sanctioned by the interim government. ....
Col. Coleman admits using the Fallujah Brigade wasnât necessarily the Marinesâ first preference and heâs not yet convinced that it will ultimately prove to be a model worth replicating around the country. But, he said, coalition forces learn from their operations and if the coalition is to build a stable country, "everything we do here should endeavor to put an Iraqi lead up front."
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 5:59:01 AM ||
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Marine Colonel Explains Our Strategy in Fallujah
"We will bomb their houses, then maching-gun the survivors as they run screaming from the ruins."
From Jihad Unspun
Eyewitnesses have confirmed that Iraqi women prisoners held in the US concentration camp at Abu Ghurayb have been subjected to rape and various types of humiliation, according to reports by non-governmental organizations and testimony collected by the Agence France Presse .
Eman Khammas, Director of the non-governmental International Center for Observing the Occupation, reports that one former woman prisoner related how her cellmate in Abu Ghurayb was raped. Khammas said that the prisoner told her how âthey brought my companion back to the cell unconscious. She remained unconscious for 48 hours. Then she told me how members of the Iraqi puppet police raped her 17 times in one day under the gaze of the American soldiers,â according to AFP.
Muhammad Dahham al-Muhammad, Chairman of the Federation of Prisoners and Detainees, is preparing affidavits collected by his work team from former women prisoners or their relatives. The Federation has, for example, the testimony of a woman concerning the repeated rape of her sister by US soldiers in front of her husband in Abu Ghurayb prison. The raped woman prisoner was originally arrested by the US aggressors in December 2003. She was released at the beginning of May 2004. The woman giving the testimony, the sister of the victim, said, âUS forces raided my sisterâs house in Baghdad to arrest her husband. When they found he wasnât there, they arrested her. My brother-in-law went and gave himself up to the Americans who then detained both of them."
The woman said that her sister told her, âthey led me to a cell and I saw my husband chained to the bars. An American soldier pulled my hair so as to raise my head to look at him as they stripped my clothes off. ... an American soldier raped me several times in front of my husband." ...
One Iraqi woman, formerly a prisoner in Abu Ghurayb, told of how she was raped by three Iraqi stooges of the occupation in the prison, the reason being that she was a member of the Arab Socialist Baâth Party. The woman said that when she tried to frighten one of her attackers with the thought of Godâs retribution, telling him that it was not right to do this to fellow countrymen, the man replied, âmaybe this will atone for the sin that you committed against al-Husayn.â (Al-Husayn ibn âAli, a revered figure among Shiâi Muslims...) ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 4:54:20 AM ||
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Note the use of 'stooges', 'aggressors' and 'puppet'. Treat with extreme scepticism!
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/01/2004 5:21 Comments ||
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#2
Note the lack of reporting on what happens in Arab prisons.
Or, hell, French prisons.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/01/2004 8:18 Comments ||
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#3
Sacre bleu! Perhaps Mr Kerry can rescue us from our plight into eternal damnation.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
06/01/2004 8:28 Comments ||
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#4
I'll bet they got pictures too. Got them from the Boston Globe.
#5
At first glance this sounds like the Iraqis did the raping âunder the gaze of the American soldiers.â This is because they canât disprove âIraqis Stoogesâ because of course they would lie. Not like the truthful spouting Socialist Baâth Party, which is a continual source of accurate information before and after the war. Hell according to them they thought that this prison was some sort of country club that people liked so much they didnât want to leave. Does this make it a solid 45 days of Abu-Grab Ass being in the news? Time for the âpressâ to give this s rest!
#6
"Then she told me how members of the Iraqi puppet police raped her 17 times in one day under the gaze of the American soldiers."
Maybe the "guy" Rantburgers would miss this one. Trust me--if a woman was raped "17 times" she would have lost count. "17" is such an "exact" number . . . makes a good story, though. "Under the gaze of . . . ." plays to the "humiliation" thing--designed to evoke a mental picture.
"Muhammad Dahham al-Muhammad, Chairman of the Federation of Prisoners and Detainees, is preparing affidavits collected by his work team from former women prisoners or their relatives."
Affidavits from these people, who know next to nothing about the Rule of Law, or "stories" from their relatives, and "eyewitnesses" amount to nothing.
Cyber Sarge: I think the American and European press are trying to get the Moslems stirred up in order to push the election Kerry's direction. "The whole world" is against Bush! Too bad they don't realize they're playing with fire.
From Jihad Unspun
In Southern Waziristanâs Rustum Bazar, 7500 shops were sealed and 64 people belonging to the Amhed Zai tribe were arrested. Twenty of their vehicles were also confiscated. The entire area has been surrounded and 1400 Pakistani soldiers and paramilitary have started patrols and established check points in the area. The roads leading to and from the area are now controlled by the army and traffic in and out is being restricted. As in previous Wana operations, the entire Ahmed Zai tribe has been held responsible for the actions of a few members through Pakistani law section 40 FCR clause 21. Shops, hotels, plazas, markets, pharmacyâs , private hospitals, fruit markets, bus stations and all other non-residential property belonging to the tribe has been sealed. Armed contingents arrived at the location Saturday and sealed off the buildings. Armored personal carriers are patrolling the streets and no one is allowed entry in any commercial place. .... There is a consistent flow of army and paramilitary reinforcements coming into the area from other parts of the country. ....
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 4:41:00 AM ||
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Surrounded? That means whoever they're after is long gone.
From Jihad Unspun
... on the highway north of Al-Fallujah Saturday Iraqi Resistance fighters fired mortars and RPGâs on an American convoy, landing direct hits on two Humvees that totally destroyed the vehicles. In the first Humvee, two soldiers inside were burnt to death. The second contained a driver with six others on the back. All were killed. Four Opel (German) cars the army units always drive when some visitors come were also hit. All four drivers were killed. .... last Thursday that approximately twenty American soldiers were killed and others wounded after three landmines exploded on their troop transport carrier traveling south of Al-Fallujah in the of Albo-Essa. Mujaideen planted the bombs earlier and detonated them remotely. Fifteen American soldiers were killed Sunday in Ar-Ramadi area with a car rigged with explosives who were patrolling in front of Childbirth Hospital (previously Saddam Hospital), and all of them totally burned. Eyewitnesses said that a fast car approached the American patrol near Ar-Ramadi Court about 50 meters before it exploded causing a huge flame .... This attack suggests a new tactic is being used by the Mujahideen in the area.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 4:33:56 AM ||
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The report by Egypt's Ibn Khaldoun Center for Development Studies welcomed the promise of elections, the freedom of expression and independence of the media but was careful not to credit the Americans for the progress.
These guys might want to bone up on their science; the progress they report being made doesn't happen in a vacuum.
A bomb planted under the chair of a city police chief exploded Tuesday, killing him and wounding two government officials at his office in eastern Afghanistan, doctors and a senior police official said. Gen. Mohammed Younis Noorzai, provincial police chief in Afghanistan's eastern Nangarhar province, told The Associated Press that assailants planted the bomb in the office of Jalalabad police chief Haji Ajab Shah, ``The moment he (Shah) sat on his seat, the bomb exploded,'' Noorzai said.
Ow. Cheeze, that hurts just to think about it...
Ah,yes, the old C4 Whoopie Cushion trick.
Noorzai said there was a possibility that the bomb was planted by Taliban or al-Qaida rebels. An official at the governor's office told AP that Shah was on the hit list of Taliban and al-Qaida fighters because he has given help to the U.S.-led coalition forces and the government of President Hamid Karzai.
#3
Where is the international outcry? If they are so up in arms about pink panties on Muslim bottoms, what is their position on exploding chairs through Afghan rectums?
Posted by: ed ||
06/01/2004 13:11 Comments ||
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#4
I can't believe the sort of evil necessary to turn a playful sac du gasse into a butt bomb.
From Khilafah, posting from The London Daily TelegraphFinding a pint can be a deadly business in Basra. Most alcohol sellers were systematically shot by extremists last summer. Religious groups threatened to kill the rest and anyone they found drinking. In the once liberal port city there is now only one place where alcohol can regularly be found: outside the British headquarters. Every night, 100 or so determined drinkers meet beside the base. They are the cityâs liberal elite - lawyers, doctors, judges, students - either sitting in cars or hunkering down behind crash barriers. It is the only place they can meet openly, drinkers say.
They like to think the British presence protects them, although that is a conclusion that can be reached only after a few pints. Three nights ago, two cars pulled up and gunmen sprayed the area beside the Shatt al-Arab river with machine-gun fire. Three drinkers were killed. "This sort of thing happens every night but Iâll never stop drinking," Walil al-Jabiri, an ice-cream seller, and former soldier, said. "I drink beer for freedom. Iâll never hide my cans." .... Basraâs pubs have been closed since the Iran-Iraq war, although under Saddam Hussein, a champagne drinker, alcohol was not forbidden. Few of the drinkers are impressed with the progress made since the fall of Saddam. They say religious parties have come to dominate intellectual life in the city and are imposing a climate of fear redolent of the Saddam era.
Yasser, a 27-year-old law student, said: "People are afraid to stand up for their rights, to tell the religious parties that this is not the way we want to live our lives." The Mahdi Army - responsible for attacks on British forces as well as drinkers - is referred to contemptuously. "Thieves and lying propagandists," al-Jabiri said. "I wish theyâd all go back to Iran and leave a man to have a drink in peace."
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/01/2004 3:34:15 AM ||
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Same thing as in Afghanistan the people who would want to throw Islamic yoke are trhreatened, bombed
and killed by the Islamists. No progress will be made in the WOT until the Muslims who want to be free to drink alcohol, watch movies (including porn movies if they want), and more generally to be free, educated and happy don't start to retaliate. Every time a shop of videos is blown up, then a mosque should be set ablaze. Every time a drinker is atacked then a dozen mullahs should be hanged and so on. Then and only then we will make any progress: when Islam's grip pon the minds is broken, when people no longer live in fear of being called apostates if they happen to blink an eye in an unislmaic way. And we have to find a way to help that rebellion against enforced Islam.
#2
JFM
Unfortunately the only group of people in the Middle East that have tried this sort of tit-for-tat anti-religious warfare are the Marxists. So be careful what you wish for!
via The Age / EFL & Fair Use
By Lee Gordon
Fallujah - June 1, 2004
Foreign insurgents, suspected of having links to al-Qaeda, have established a firm foothold in the Iraqi city of Fallujah. A well-armed group infiltrated the city before fighting erupted in March and is continuing to mount operations against the coalition and Westerners in the area - in defiance of leaders of Fallujahâs mosques, the army and the police force. So they have their own agenda? Whoâda thunk it?
The group, led by Abu Abdullah, a young Saudi, is linked to kidnappings of Westerners, particularly journalists. Its members include Wahhabi Muslims, the ultra-fundamentalist sect that spawned Osama bin Laden. A Saoodi? Tap...tap...
Fallujahâs leaders, who follow different Islamic fundamentalist teachings, fear that the Saudis belong to an al-Qaeda cell seeking a final showdown between Islam and America in the Middle East. A senior sheikh in Fallujah said the group was "out of control". "We are worried that they are part of al-Qaeda. That means that we will have to force them out and it will be hard. But this is our country we are fighting for, and it is our fight with the Americans. They have their own country and their own ideas, which we do not share." Weâre fighting everyone, in fact! And my Dad can beat up his dirty Wahhabi Dad any day!
Fallujahâs own independent militia, set up under the agreement with the Americans that ended a month-long battle for the city, is threatening to attack the Saudi group because of its persistent involvement in kidnappings and looting. A raid on the group was planned on Friday, but had to be delayed when the Fallujah militia was called to rescue two German journalists, dragged from their car and attacked by a mob. Cursed mustaches, yet? Oh, so now the catâs outta the bag, so it wonât be a surprise attack. #%*&!% German tourists...
The Saudis were at first welcomed among the hundreds of foreign combatants who came to help Iraqis fighting the coalition. They fought in the southern section of Fallujah, where US marines met the stiffest resistance. In all, about a quarter of those fighting the Americans were foreigners: Syrian, Saudi, Palestinian and Tunisian. They helped the Iraqi mujahideen - the collection of armed Islamic groups fighting the coalition - become better-organised and equipped, aided by funds brought by the Saudi fighters. The Syrians were trained in tactics used against the Israelis in Lebanon. Where have we heard this before: "Yeah! Okay, tanx. Now get out."
But Fallujahâs mujahideen - comprised of five or six brigades of 100 men - are now losing patience with the radical Saudi fighters, whom they suspect of al-Qaeda links, because they are almost impossible to control. Ohhh, cool. So, whoâs bringing the popcorn?
Posted by: .com ||
06/01/2004 1:53:16 AM ||
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This could be good. This just might call for the Mother of All Popcorn: popped stove-top using bacon grease and dressed lovingly in copious amounts of butter and salt.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/01/2004 2:09 Comments ||
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A well-armed group infiltrated the city before fighting erupted in March
Peace loving, democracy hungry Iraqis are assets to coalition troops once again. Don't you love all the tips they gave our marines? As for the Fallujah "independent militia" attacking the foreign insurgents, nobody hold your breath. Why throw more GI lives at this camel herding crowd? Let them blow each other up. What a madhouse.
Posted by: rex ||
06/01/2004 2:09 Comments ||
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#3
...the Saudis belong to an al-Qaeda cell seeking a final showdown between Islam and America in the Middle East.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
They do look alot alike
