EFL from the Ol' Gray Lady....
The newspaper Al Qabas in Kuwait set off a debate spreading throughout the country and beyond on Monday by suggesting that Kuwait deserves its reputation for being cheap and oblivious to people who go there to work as servants, given the relatively low level of aid it has donated to the tsunami victims at a time when the state treasury is bursting with an oil bonanza. Paging Jan Egeland....
Noting that the bulk of the nannies, drivers, menial laborers and other servants who keep most households running in the emirate come from Southeast Asia - imported workers easily outnumber the native population - some Kuwaitis agree that the country and its Persian Gulf neighbors need to be doing much more. But the campaign to shut down Islamic charities accused of financing terrorism has left many people confused about where to turn when they do want to donate money. And a few extremist Friday Prayer leaders and other religious commentators fueled the uncertainty by suggesting that the tsunami destruction was the wrath of God. But what about the Muslim victims? Oh right....they're not Wahhabi....sorry, my bad.
Gauging the extent of private donations for the region proved difficult because nobody seems to be collecting the information. I'll do it for ya.....so far, zip. Nothing. Nada. Continued on Page 49
Accusations by a Kuwaiti newspaper that rich Muslim countries are doing too little to aid tsunami victims has provoked a debate throughout the Gulf region and beyond about whether Muslims are being stingy in the face of suffering -- compared to non-Muslim Europeans and Americans who are rushing to donate for relief efforts. Is the charge justified? Indonesia -- the country worst-affected by the disaster -- is also the world's largest Muslim nation.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen ||
01/04/2005 12:21:41 PM ||
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Of course not - but then again, when did Muslims help anyone - ever!
In a move to tackle corruption and continue Yemen's judicial reform, the Higher Judicial Council has appointed new judges and moved a number of others to different positions. The council, headed by President Ali Abdullah Saleh, made the changes last Wednesday. It sees 25 new judges were appointed to the Higher Court while 24 were given positions in the Judicial Inspection Commission. Abdullah Farwan, former Chairman of the Central Organization for Control and Audit, is now the head of the Judicial Inspection Commission, an organization which monitors the performance of Yemeni judges. Farwan replaced Abdul-Malik Al-Jindari, who was appointed as the head of the Justice Ministry's Technical Bureau.
Saleh was quoted as saying that "judicial authorities should be independent and above any authority and influence." Two weeks ago, the President and the Higher Judicial Council dismissed 22 judges without any compensation or benefits and ordered 108 other judges for early retirement. "Judicial tasks should never be given to those who are not qualified and do not possess the quality of fairness," said Saleh when the judges were fired from their jobs. "They should be able to be fair in settling people's affairs."
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 9:42:56 AM ||
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And they're going to be allowed to go shopping by themselves somewhere around 2198...
Former Saudi female candidates for the upcoming municipal elections had varied responses after a senior election official yesterday said that women would be allowed to vote in 2009. Prince Mansour ibn Miteb, chairman of the General Committee for Municipal Elections, explained that the only reason women were not allowed to vote in this round was because municipal elections are a new experience and the short time given to prepare for them made it impossible to allow women's participation this time. Faten Bunduggi, the director of women's empowerment and research at the Jeddah Chamber of Commerce and Industry said: "It is a very good news if the statement is true; it shows that the government is empowering women to take part in political decision making in the country. In the meantime, we hope that the government would consider allocating female representatives, as fifty percent of the municipal seats will be appointed." Bunduggi added that she hoped women would be appointed at least from the major cities like Riyadh and Jeddah.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 00:00:00 ||
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Next thing you know, the Saudis will claim they have "A Plan" - and we all know what that means - whoa, back off!
This rash of "elections" across the ME is fascinating. Lessee, it was The Clinton Doctrine that transformed the ME view of Thuggykleptomullacracy and initiated this trend, right? Musta been - that cowboy Bush couldn't have thought of it - he's a BusHitler Neanderthal knuckle-dragger. Nope - had to be a Blue Stater thingy, I'm sure. Right?
The funny thing is, though much of this first round is a joke (50% "appointed" positions, etc) and will do nothing of substance - the seed has been planted. In 5-10 years, they'll actually want some power behind the vote - and they'll begin to ask WTF about the ham-handed "appointed" BS. Then the rock and the hard place will collide. Interesting times.
#4
SAUDI WOMEN CAN VOTE BY 2009 IF ACCOMPANIED BY THEIR HUSBAND AND REMAIN 5 PACES BEHIND THEM IN HEAD TO TOE BURQA. THEIR SELECTION OF CANDIDATES WILL HARDLINE ISLAMISTS AND SUN-NAZI'S. SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT DEAL.
Saudi Arabia said its stand on the free trade agreements Bahrain concluded with the United States did not amount to a dispute with the Gulf neighbor but rather reflects the Kingdom's keenness to see the Gulf Cooperation Council resolutions being honored. The Cabinet, meeting last night in its weekly session under the chairmanship of Crown Prince Abdullah, said the Kingdom's position toward the Bahrain-US agreement "is not considered by Saudi Arabia as amounting to a bilateral or even collective dispute, but rather reflects the Kingdom's keenness on (maintaining) the credibility and seriousness of the Gulf Cooperation Council resolutions, especially in regard to the GCC economic unity." Minister of Culture and Information, Dr. Fouad Al-Farsi, said the Crown Prince briefed the Cabinet on his recent visit to the Eastern Province where he opened a number of mega industrial, health and education projects and his meetings with citizens of the region.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 00:00:00 ||
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Saudi Arabia said it would impose duties on foreign goods imported through Bahrain if the Gulf state pressed ahead with implementing a free trade agreement with the United States. Finance Minister Dr. Ibrahim Al-Assaf said the Kingdom will be forced to take measures, including legal action, to protect its interests from being harmed by unilateral free trade agreements concluded by Gulf Cooperation Council states with other countries.
Free trade, especially with infidels, harms the Soddy hegemony...
They could really make us chuckle if they threatened to invade ...
The Kingdom will return to imposing customs duties in trading with GCC member states which breach the GCC's common tariff, he warned. "Foreign goods coming through these countries will be taxed," the minister told a press conference in Riyadh. Bahrain's signing of a free trade agreement with the US angered the Kingdom ahead of the recent GCC summit held in December in Manama. The Kingdom criticized its neighbors for forging separate economic and security agreements with foreign powers, accusing them of weakening Gulf solidarity. It said such unilateral moves undermine the GCC's economic integration efforts. The GCC groups Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 00:00:00 ||
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It is interesting that the GCC countries are breaking free of the Saudi hegemony. The gig is up. Bahrain, not a wealthy oil state, used to be heavily subsidized by the Saudis... apparently the economic balance has swung to favor the trade deal with the US. The relationship with the House of Saud has been evolving ever since the new guy took over, and the Bahrainis voted to make him a "King" instead of a mere "Emir". He and the PM are mind-bendingly corrupt - I think even beyond Saudi corrupt (Ethel! The pills!), which takes some doing. But they have a different game to play, since they haven't the oil the Sauds have. I would be extremely cautious in any deals I made with Bahraini authority... Especially since the balance may swing back the other way if the Saudi taxation punishment is painful enough...
This is Arab carrot & stick politics, folks. Real carrots and real sticks. Mustache cursing is optional entertainment.
PARIS (Reuters) - The medical aid group Medecins Sans Frontiers (Doctors without Borders) urged donors Tuesday to stop sending it money for Asian tsunami victims, saying it had collected enough funds to manage its relief effort there. In an unusual step, the group's branches in France and Germany said they had 40 million and $27 million respectively, enough to finance emergency medical aid projects they were supporting in Sri Lanka and Indonesia.
Their decision surprised other aid groups and drew criticism that it could undercut an unprecedented wave of private giving to provide relief to the region devastated by the Dec. 26 tsunami which has killed at least 150,000 people. "It's the first time we are led to take this kind of decision," MSF Director General Pierre Salignon said. "This might seem to run counter to the mood of general mobilization, but it's a question of honesty toward our donors. We don't want to continue to lobby the public for projects that are already financed," he said in a statement. A spokesman for MSF's German branch, Aerzte Ohne Grenzen, said it had adopted the same policy.
"What shocks me is that you are taking the risk of pulling the carpet under the feet of other aid organizations. Many groups still need more money," said Jean-Christope Rufin, head of the French aid group Action Contre la Faim (Action against Hunger). "It's a bit irresponsible. We're all in the same boat in humanitarian aid," Rufin told France 2 television. Some German agencies said they had no plans to follow suit and privately several said they were shocked by MSF's decision.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/04/2005 10:38:57 AM ||
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Mon dieu! Mein Gott! This cannot be! Won't somebody think of The Children (TM)!
#3
"What shocks me is that you are taking the risk of pulling the carpet under the feet of other aid organizations. Many groups still need more money"
THAT IN A NUTSHELL-
...er, sorry, someone left the volume control pegged.
That in a nutshell expresses the worst fears of all NGOs the world over. Tsunami efforts aside, more and more if us see the typical NGO model as resembling the infamous "Toyota Taliban" NGOs in Kabul.
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
01/04/2005 12:54 Comments ||
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And Germany's reported aid increase to EURO$500.0M is worth how much in French Francs; and espec US dollars, aka REAL MONEY, and the de facto GLOBAL STANDARD FOR CURRENCY EXCHANGE??? Or is the USA in 2005 still a mere "superpower" only slightly superior to Communism-centric/Communist Russia-China, and not a hyper-power - the $15.0T -or-less Global GDP Russkies and Chinese say America is going down, and they want youse $300.0-900T + Global GDP Amerikans to know it!?
Germany's sweeping welfare reforms went into effect without a hitch yesterday as labour offices cut payments for a million jobless and qualifying tests got tougher. Threatened mass protests to oppose the most far-reaching welfare reforms in a generation failed to materialise on the first day of the new, lower payments. Some 300 protesters tried to enter the main jobs centre in central Berlin but police blocked their path. "The turnout is a bit disappointing but when people start realising the impact of this then they'll come out," unemployed protester Detlef Stuye, 50, said.
The reforms are intended to help halve unemployment by 2010 but in the short-term they are expected to boost the jobless to close to five million. In November, 4.64 million Germans were out of work, roughly 10.8 per cent of the work force. Demonstrators had threatened to storm labour offices in 55 cities. Many job centres hired security guards to protect staff and police have trained employees on handling angry recipients. "Our goal is to interrupt job centre operations," Olga Schell, leader of a protest group known as "End-of-the-Modesty", had said at a news conference late last week. But officials said there were no signs of problems yesterday morning.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 9:32:51 AM ||
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I wonder how long unemployed protester Detlef Stuye, 50 has been unemployed. And the ratio of years employed to years unemployed. And finally, total number of years employed during his fifty years of life.
Why don't you just drop that idea? Quit worrying about the image and pay attention to the substance. Oderint dum metuant, Colin.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 11:23:21 AM ||
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Reminds me of a Jim Carey scene where he says, "they like me, they really like me."
Just do the right thing, don't spent time about what others think.
Posted by: Captain America ||
01/04/2005 12:05 Comments ||
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i dont think Powell was saying we shouldnt do the right thing. Its the right thing, the American way, AND it helps us. What TGA was saying here the other day.
#6
Doing the right thing, sans ballyhoo, is what we've been doing for several decades. Without being a moron and speculating aloud in the press - your sworn enemy, as the Master Diplomat has done here, a few dozen well-funded documentaries by native filmmakers from these countries might be a good start toward giving them a more accurate picture of the US - and relatively cheap to do, as well.
#8
Not really, the US's help will only get them on their collective feet earlier to hate us again later! The Tamil rebels will be defying and fighting the government within one year of restoration! History will show we should have let the Arab world deal with the aid, while we gird our forces for the coming showdown with Iran and North Korea! We will have to tuck tail and pull out sooner than we would like!
#9
Memories are short - interests are permanent. They'll give credit to Uncle Sam the way they thanked us for Bosnia and Kosovo. I don't expect any PR value from this - the specific recipients of aid may be thankful, but that's about it.
#11
.Com,
If you think the US is going to leave a carrier group hauling bananas and baby diapers poised idle in the Bay Of Bengal after either North Korea or Iran detonates their first 'Trinity Test' you're more wishful than I thought! Pray the restoration concludes before those events occur!
#12
I would suggest that the majority of US Mil resources will be gone once the roads are reopened and others get their shit together to provide, sea, air, and land transport. The majority of the distribution effort will change over to locals, too.
Bet on it.
The problem here was time, capability, and gumption.
The pretenders wank-off for the press, posturing, preening, and jockeying for credit.
The doers, US & Aussie Militaries who were the closest with the mostest and the balls to do the job without a bank of microphones, just demonstrated who walks and who talks. (P.S. Thanx Oz - you guys rock!)
Now, if that obvious sequence isn't something you anticipated happening within a time window of approx 4-6 months, likely on the low side of that, well, my sympathies.
#13
They'll give credit to Uncle Sam the way they thanked us for Bosnia and Kosovo.
I fervently hope not. Our recompense for saving tens of thousands of muslim lives in the Balkans in early 1999 was the 9/11 slaughter, planned immediately after the Kosovo compaign.
#14
.com,
4 to 6 months sounds reasonable to me also! Now, I hope the rest of "The Axis" will wait, before they try to ruffle our feathers. The Iranians may have heart, but the deck is still out on the Norks!
We do the RIGHT thing whether they liks us more (or less) or not. How they respond is a distant byproduct.
Posted by: Captain America ||
01/04/2005 22:42 Comments ||
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Happened to catch CBS evening news tonight where they asked why Americans are giving so much money for tsunami victims. After giving some lip service to a couple of reasons like 'well, it is the time of year when people are thinking of giving to charity anyway,' they revealed the big secret. Americans are really just trying to buy off the muslims. CBS has figured out Americans' secret plan! We only made all those donations so muslims will like us.
In a pilot program described as the first of its kind, an agency created by the state government is making it easier for illegal immigrants in Wisconsin to obtain mortgage loans. Immigrants who do not have Social Security numbers - a common requirement for loans - can use an alternative government-issued tax number to get financing for new homes, under the Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority (WHEDA) program.
Some say the Wisconsin program is an example of how groups and companies are starting to recognize the potential market of immigrants. Critics say the program provides a reward for those who are violating immigration laws. Some banks already issue mortgage loans to illegal immigrants, but WHEDA is believed to be the first and only quasi-government organization to buy such loans from the banks, said Geoff Cooper, director of emerging markets for MGIC Investment Corp., and Gary Acosta, president of the National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals.The agency, which funded more than 4,000 home mortgages last year, underwrote 87 mortgage loans to ITIN holders since the program started in April. Illegals are getting help with loans from our gov't to buy houses here, which they would illegally reside in...what's wrong with this picture? But I'm happy for the Iraqis that GWB is concerned about their border security. At least someone is having their country's sovereignity protected.
Posted by: joeblow ||
01/04/2005 2:28:00 AM ||
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This is really stupid. Who will take over the payments when the illegals are shipped back home by Homeland Security? Not to mention that a simple search of WHEDA's records would give them the names and addresses of the illegals, with no further research necessary.
(2005-01-03) -- The 109th U.S. Congress, which convenes tomorrow, will be so deeply divided that Republicans and Democrats will use separate restrooms, according to Congressional sources.
Leaders in the House and Senate have already allocated funding for door signs designating men's and women's restrooms for each of the two major parties.
Debates in committee have centered the relative positions of facilities to the right or left of the House and Senate chambers.
Democrats said they'll fight any effort by the Republican majority to position them to the far left of the main halls. The threat of a Democrat restroom filibuster looms as Republicans exercise their growing political power.
Aides also report gathering momentum for a Republican effort to "privatize" public restrooms, sparking some Democrats to wonder aloud if the facilities will be "there for you when your time comes."
Posted by: Korora ||
01/04/2005 12:05:23 AM ||
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Well, considering how pissy the Dhimmidonks have become, it's probably a matter of serious hygeine concern, heh.
"The Donks have control and... approaching now from the left side... they bobble it.. oh, they miss again... wotta mess! On the turnover Scott Ott controls... moves smoothly down the lane... he shoots... he scores... again"! He da funniest mofo on da 'Net, lol! Thx Korora!
From South Asia Analysis Group, an article by B. Raman, Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai, and Distinguished Fellow and Convenor, Observer Research Foundation (ORF), Chennai Chapter.
.... areas inhabited by ethnic minorities have been very badly affected in the Tamil-majority Northern and Eastern Provinces of Sri Lanka and in the Car Nicobar area of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands of India. .... about a half, if not over a half, of the fatalities in Sri Lanka are of the Sri Lankan Tamils ..... 16,656 Tamils have been killed ....
The Andaman and Nicobar island territory of India, which has been the most affected in India, is inhabited by a large number of settlers from mainland India in the Andaman District. The Car Nicobar group of islands, which is less developed and more isolated, despite its strategic importance as the widow on South-East Asia and a watch-tower on the Malacca Straits, is largely inhabited by indigenous tribals. .... Taking advantage of this, Western non-governmental organisations seem to be exercising pressure on the Govt. of India to let them go into Car Nicobar to attend to the relief and rehabilitation needs of the tribals. Keeping in view the strategic importance of the area, the Government of India has rightly rejected their demands. .... If the Western NGOs continue to give sermons to India on its obligation to let them go into Car Nicobar, New Delhi should not hesitate to tell them to first go to the US Naval base in Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean to estimate the humanitarian needs of the people there. ....
US naval ships and military personnel have started moving into the affected countries to organise the relief effort. It has been reported that about 1,300 US Marines are likely to be deployed in Sri Lanka alone. .... The large-scale deployment of highly visible US troops in Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Thailand could make them attractive targets for Al Qaeda, the Jemmah Islamiyah and other jihadi terrorist organisations and add to the internal security problems of the affected countries. It would be wishful-thinking to believe that because of the enormous tragedy, the jihadi terrorists will refrain from acts of terrorism in the Tsunami-ravaged countries due to a fear that this could antagonise the local population. They have never cared for public opinion and fears of public revulsion have never been an inhibiting factor for them.
The tragedy in Thailand has not prevented the jihadi terrorists from continuing with their acts of terrorism in the Muslim majority provinces of southern Thailand.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
01/04/2005 9:32:03 PM ||
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German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said his government will ``considerably" raise its aid for the countries affected by the Dec. 26 tsunami flood disaster. ``I will make a proposal tomorrow that shows we want to get involved over the long term and this will include an amount that is considerably higher than what has been offered so far,'' said Schroeder, 60, in an interview with German broadcaster ARD. Schroeder said media reports that his government may increase its aid for tsunami-affected regions to as much as 500 million euros ($665 million) from 20 million euros ``are not completely wrong.'' Germany's ruling cabinet will approve higher flood aid at a special meeting in Berlin on Wednesday.
Posted by: True German Ally ||
01/04/2005 7:18:16 PM ||
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#1
Schroeder is just a bit slow as they say I guess.
He had to wait until the "welfare" cuts came into effect to keep the natives from getting restless perhapp?
#5
TGA - you're held to a higher standard, and you pass
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/04/2005 22:31 Comments ||
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The cynic in me worries that the West may later regret sending excessive amounts of cash to an area of the world that is known for corruption co-mingling with terrorism, all the while thinking the $ is only being used to help poor innocent disaster victims.
Have to wonder, is it the govn't thinking or the folks needing help that are refusing the Marines?
Down in the hull, everything is ready to go. There are tractors and trucks and three huge landing craft. There's water purifying equipment, plastic tarps and wood beams for building temporary shelters. And there are more than 1,300 Marines ready to take it all ashore and get to work. But — even for a strictly humanitarian mission — in the political minefield of southern Asia, getting American boots on the ground is a delicate concept. The first helicopter flights off this Navy flattop began relief operations on Tuesday, flying to the city of Medan on Indonesia's tsunami-struck island of Sumatra, where more than 100,000 people are feared dead and a million or more are homeless after the catastrophic Dec. 26 earthquake and tsunami.
Plans to put a Marine expeditionary unit ashore on Sri Lanka with heavy equipment, however, have been put on hold. After being informed that Colombo was scaling down its request for help, this ship and the USS Duluth canceled plans to spearhead relief efforts off Sri Lanka's coast and have instead joined the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln and its battle group off Sumatra. The USS Mount Rushmore, carrying a smaller contingent of Marines, will travel on to Sri Lanka alone. It was expected to cross the Indian Ocean by the weekend. An advance party of seven Marines arrived in the southern town of Galle Tuesday. Though no firm plans had been set, due to the uncertainty of the situation, the Marines had hoped to put more than 1,000 troops ashore in Sri Lanka to help clear roads and build shelters for refugees.
The Bonhomme Richard, carrying more than 1,300 Marines, has three landing craft aboard that float on air cushions and are capable of putting the troops ashore by the hundred on almost any kind of beach. All are fully loaded and ready to go. But for the time being, that capability will not be used. Instead, the ship's helicopters will continue ferrying supplies to and from the regional airports where they have been piling up, and taking them out to the more remote places where they are needed.
Continued on Page 49
#2
It is difficult to have sympathy for the governments but not the people. If these people only understood what we stood for it would all be apparent. I agree if you don't want us, why bother.
#3
good comment RW and thanks for losing the Caplocks..
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/04/2005 15:32 Comments ||
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#4
Ahem, I think the bigger problem is that the US is trying to send supplies to help people, *not* money that would go directly into the pockets of the regime. From the regime's point of view, that is the only aid worth having, and screw the peasants.
#5
We shoudl send the whole kit and kaboodle to Sri Lanka and Thiland if they'll accept the help. If the Indos don't want it, .com had the right idea.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
01/04/2005 16:03 Comments ||
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#6
Jakarta was quick to open Aceh because it needed the help, but the image of large numbers of Marines pouring ashore would be politically sensitive to the predominantly Muslim nation.
More politically sensitive than a bunch more dead people, whose deaths are attributed to avoidable religious belligerence, rather than unavoidable acts of nature?
#8
That's fine. Move on to the next folks who want the help. The Saudi navy or some other Muslim navy should be along to help these folks... ummmmmmmmmmmmm... soon. We'll let them know where you are.
History shows that any aid we give to muslims is not appreciated or remembered.
It is the very crux of their desert clan death cult to either kill us or convert us and establish a world-wide ummah.
Ralph Peters (generally a smart guy) notwithsatnding, there is NO SUCH THING as a moderate muslim. You either are muslim, or you are an apostate, which is worse than being an infidel.
#10
If we go on the the next people I say we do very publically. Make sure that everyone knows that our assistance was turned down my the Indonesia government because of religious reasons. Leave them to the U.N. (but dont give any aid via the UN either - dont let Kofi and his theves steal the credit for our efforts!).
#11
If they say no thanks move on and make it really public that we tried. Sri Lanka is a shit hole anyhow. If Indonesia has problems tough luck. We have other places we can spend our treasure.
#12
Wonder how much this was encouraged by UN officials who resent us actually expecting to take credit for what we donate and for the work we do.
Posted by: very anon ||
01/04/2005 21:18 Comments ||
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#13
There are billions of moderate muslims and most of them live in the areas affected. These are the poorest of the poor and they probably bear less animosity to us than do the French or Germans. Let's get these people water and food. Good God, where's your Christian spirit ?? 99.9% of these people have nothing to do with the WOT.
F^%$$ the UN, but don't use these people as pawns to do it.
this memo written by Dutch diplomats and circulated at an EU meeting in Indonesia:
The US military has arrived and is clearly establishing its presence everywhere in Banda Aceh. They completely have taken over the military hospital, which was a mess until yesterday but is now completely up and running. They brought big stocks of medicines, materials for the operation room, teams of doctors, water and food. Most of the patients who were lying in the hospital untreated for a week have undergone medical treatment by the US teams by this afternoon. US military have unloaded lots of heavy vehicles and organize the logistics with Indonesian military near the airport. A big camp is being set up at a major square in the town. Huge generators are ready to provide electricity. US helicopters fly to places which haven't been reached for the whole week and drop food. The impression it makes on the people is also highly positive; finally something happens in the city of Banda Aceh and finally it seems some people are in control and are doing something. No talking but action. European countries are until now invisible on the ground. IOM staff (note: this is a USAID-funded organization) is very busy briefing the incoming Americans and Australians about the situation.
#17
Jakarta was quick to open Aceh because it needed the help, but the image of large numbers of Marines pouring ashore would be politically sensitive to the predominantly Muslim nation.
Well. There's nothing like sacrificing untold numbers of your own population just for the sake of political sensitivity, no?
#18
Re Aceh, someone with expertise in Indonesia on, I believe, belmontclub, pointed out that the rebels there are not jihadists but ethnic separatists with a completely different heritage, culture and identity from the Jakarta-based majority. ANother key grievance of theirs is apparently the rape of their natural resources, mainly natural gas, of which they have huge reserves and 95% of which cash flow is grabbed by Jakarta. No reason, really, that we should oppose these people. It's not about islamofascism.
#7
#6 Elephants are very sensitive to low frequency sound waves, looks like they heard the actual quake from Thailand!
Posted by: Grunter 2005-01-04 1:19:39 PM
#9
Notice it was the elephants helping and not the donkeys.
LOL! Nice one.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
01/04/2005 14:29 Comments ||
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#10
I kinda get a kick out of those Thai 'Phants that have been robbing the produce trucks on the highways up-country, heh. One or two block the highway and, when a truck full of juicy stuff comes along, the signal is sent (They're communicating! Lol!) and their confederates come out of the brush, prevent the truck's escape, and loot it. The Thais revere them, but I think this serves as an editorial comment on the menu being offered, lol!
The Thai word (shown phonetically, of course)is "chahng" - said in a high tone.
Banda Aceh: Remarkable stories of survival emerged yesterday even as authorities all but gave up hope of finding anyone else alive after Asia's killer earthquake and tsunamis. US troops delivering first aid to a village along the devastated western coast of Sumatra island yesterday rescued about 50 survivors including many so weak they couldn't walk or talk delivering them by Navy helicopter to a hospital in Banda Aceh.
In Malaysia, a 23-year-old Indonesian woman who clung to a sago tree for five days after the tsunami was delivered to a hospital by a tuna ship that picked her up last week, an industry official said. On Sunday, Indonesian fisherman Tengku Sofyan was found, wasted by dehydration and hunger, underneath the wreckage of his boat, which was thrown ashore and upturned over him in the December 26 tsunami on Sumatra. "He's in extremely fragile condition, especially mentally," said Dr Irwan Azwar, who treated Sofyan. And four Indonesian fishermen were found alive on Saturday in the Andaman Sea, six days after their boat was pushed out to sea by the tsunami, officials said yesterday. It was also reported that an 18-month old Kazakh boy was found alive in Khao Lak on January 1, almost a week after a tsunami devastated Indian Ocean shores.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 9:28:21 AM ||
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These "troops" weren't SEALS, were they? Can't wait to see the pictures of them with bags over their heads and dog leashes on their necks.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
01/04/2005 11:48 Comments ||
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Thailand has fired its chief meteorologist and opened an investigation into why his department failed to issue a tsunami warning which might have saved thousands of lives, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra announced. "When a quake measured at 8.9-9.0 on the Richter scale struck in Sumatra, it was widely known tsunami can happen. But why weren't there any alerts? I really want to know the truth," Thaksin told reporters Tuesday. A day after deadly waves devastated the country's Andaman Sea coast, Meteorological Department chief Suparerk Tansriratanawong had told reporters Thailand had not been hit by a tsunami in more than 300 years and had no reason to expect one. But the English-language Nation newspaper quoted an unnamed member of the department last week as saying a tsunami alert was not issued for fear of hurting the important tourist industry at the peak season if it turned out to be false.
During the investigation, to be led by Information & Communications Technology Minister Surapong Suebwonglee, Suparerk will help set up a national early warning system for all natural disasters, a government spokesman said. No Asian country issued a warning of the Dec. 26 tsunami, triggered by a magnitude 9.0 earthquake off Indonesia, which killed nearly 150,000 people as it crashed ashore around the Indian Ocean. Samith Dhammasaroj said Monday he was sure a tsunami was coming as soon as he heard about the massive December 26 earthquake off Indonesia's Sumatra island that measured magnitude 9.0 -- the world's biggest in 40 years. "I tried to call the director-general of the meteorological office, but his phone was always busy," Samith said as he described his desperate attempts to generate an alert which might have saved thousands of lives. "I tried to phone the office, but it was a Sunday and no-one was there," said the former chief of the meteorological department now charged with setting up an early warning disaster system for Thailand. "I knew that one day we would have this type of tsunami. I warned that there would be a big disaster," he told reporters. "Everyone laughed at me and said I was a bad guy who wanted to ruin the tourist industry," he added.
This reads just like the plot of every bad disaster movie, young dedicated (insert field of expertise here) scientist warns of impending doom. Government leaders laugh at him, try to supress story to protect special interests. All we need is a beautiful reporter.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/04/2005 9:11:21 AM ||
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saying a tsunami alert was not issued for fear of hurting the important tourist industry at the peak season if it turned out to be false.
This is an ongoing issue in Floriduh that becomes more acute every year as building occurs along the coast. The tourist industry does it's best to pressure the weather services not to ruin profits. The idea of a 5 day forecast was received as warmly as a frigid day in Alaska.
I tried to call the director-general of the meteorological office, but his phone was always busy. Oh...I'd love to tell a few stories here....but just let me say, don't laugh. It could happen here too - and not just for hurricanes.
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/04/2005 10:33 Comments ||
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#5
This will make the Best. Miniseries. Ever. It's got everything.
1st act: beautiful Thai wimmin, tropical paradises, frolicking tourists, international men of mystery. Earthquake, earnest seismologists, corrupt politicians, huge tsunami waves crushing everything in their path.
2nd act: Chaos, heroic acts, posturing pols, perky fresh-faced NGO workers, handsome military men, lots of helicopters and aircraft carriers, rescue elephants, mostly-nekkid villagers.
3rd act: still being written. But already we have Thai gangs dressing as cops and looting hotel rooms and bank vaults, and boodles of charity cash swirling around the globe with the associated carrion birds starting to circle...
It only depends upon who makes it - an idiotarian or someone from reality. You have too many reality elements in your storyboard for The Day After Tomorrow crowd...
#7
about 3 days after the disaster, CNN featured a woman who was worried about the missing father-of-her-baby. I was musing to myself - why are they just focusing on him? Why just his photo? Why not others?
Then, and I kid you not, this woman goes on to give a rant on how we have to end the "causes" of these disasters. Cue the theme from Twilight Zone. She starts going on about how we MUST end global warming, improve economic conditions, and end nuclear testing as if that was what caused the disaster. The CNN news-reader just nodded her head up and down as if it was all very sane. It was wierd.
#9
actually, it entered my mind that CNN is so messed up that they actually chose this woman because they knew ahead of time that she would spew a global warming/nuclear testing lie for the wannabelievers. Maybe not.. and probably not ..... but it was strange that they gave so much time to just one missing person when, by that time, it would have been easy to come up with multiple photos to place on the air. It was a long interview. But then again, their reporting has sunk so low that maybe that was the best they could do.
#10
2b: She starts going on about how we MUST end global warming, improve economic conditions, and end nuclear testing as if that was what caused the disaster.
Ironically, global warming would have decreased the scale of the tidal wave. The very shallowness of the continental shelf was what made the waves so big. *Sigh* Environmental fundamentalism - where Mother Nature is seen as a caring deity unless man angers it - appears to be all too pervasive. I liked the traditional religions better - except for a tiny sliver of Islam, most have worked out their kinks.
Pakistan Peoples Party leaders are planning to forward to party chairperson Benazir Bhutto details of a proposal that calls for her husband, Asif Ali Zardari, to contest bye-elections in the city. The seat, NA-127, fell vacant after the resignation of Pakistan Awami Tehrik (PAT) chairperson Allama Tahirul Qadri last month from the National Assembly. Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) leaders have suggested that Zardari is the "best choice" to contest the seat, say sources close to the party.
While the proposal had already been put to Zardari while he was in Karachi, Zardari, presently in Dubai, has suggested that the party "should decide on this in the usual fashion". Zardari is also said to have sought opinions from friends on the idea of contesting from Lahore. The Punjab capital has reacted hostilely to the PPP in the recent polls, in contrast to the situation existing in 1988, and has favoured the Pakistan Muslim League, including the Nawaz Sharif-led faction of the party. This also means that Benazir may have to seek Mian Nawaz Sharif's support for Zardari to contest the seat.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 9:30:23 AM ||
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Lucknow: Sharp divisions have started emerging within the All India Muslim Personal Law Board over the issue of population control among minorities. The Board firmly maintains that any form of family planning particularly, those amounting to coercive means is against the tenets of Islam. However, a senior vice-president of the Board, Maulana Kalbe Sadiq, is determined to go ahead with his campaign to promote family planning among Muslims. Talking to reporters on Sunday, Maulana Kalbe Sadiq maintained that Islam was not averse to population control.
Especially when it comes to controlling the population of infidel nations.
He said that it would be in the wider interests of the minorities to adopt practices that would restrict family size.
So that minorities stay that way.
Maulana Kalbe Sadiq's statement comes barely a week after working committee of the Board had shot down the proposal for population control saying that Islam did not permit any coercive family planning measures.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 9:27:00 AM ||
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If the program involves woman-to-woman contacts only, the program will be a success. The men tie their masculinity to number of sons (and also other children) their wives produce. Women are more practical because life and death issues (for themselves and those who survive birth) are involved.
Zimbabwe's ruling party has dropped three key ministers as candidates for polls due in March in the latest sign that President Robert Mugabe was stamping his authority on the party after a row over the succession. The official Herald newspaper said yesterday Information Minister Jonathan Moyo, Justice Minister Patrick Chinamasa, and Finance Minister Chris Kuruneri were missing from a list of ZANU-PF officials to contest the parliamentary polls.
Businessman Philip Chiyangwa was also dropped from the list. Moyo has spearheaded ZANU-PF's political campaigns since a crisis developed in Zimbabwe over land reform in 1999 and has also acted as government spokesman. He and Chinamasa played a key role in the enactment of media and security laws critics say aimed to undermine Mugabe's political opponents. "It is understood that Professor Moyo's submission of candidature was left out as the Tsholotsho constituency, where he was campaigning, has been reserved for women contestants only," the paper said. ZANU-PF officials were not available for comment. Moyo helped organise a secret meeting which ZANU-PF says was convened to push Parliament Speaker Emmerson Mnangagwa for the post of party vice-president.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 9:24:31 AM ||
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My impression was that Moyo was one of the sharpest of Bob's people. If the smart ones are being purged, then I think it might be a light at the end of the tunnel.
There has been growing speculation in Zimbabwe as to who will succeed Robert Mugabe. The succession row has flared up in recent weeks, with seven top ZANU-PF officials suspended and accused of convening an unsanctioned secret meeting to push Parliament Speaker Emmerson Mnangagwa's candidacy for the post of party vice-president, seen as a stepping stone to the top job. The party post later went to liberation war veteran Joyce Mujuru, whom Mugabe then appointed government vice-president. Analysts say the internal feuding could weaken ZANU-PF ahead of March 2005 general elections in which the main opposition party is again likely to be the Movement for Democratic Change.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 9:23:31 AM ||
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An Indian helicopter dropping food and water over the remote Andaman and Nicobar Islands has been attacked by tribesmen using bows and arrows. There were fears that the endangered tribal groups had been wiped out when massive waves struck their islands. But the authorities say the attack is a sign that they have survived. More than 6,000 people there are confirmed as either dead or missing, but thousands of others are still unaccounted for. The Indian coastguard helicopter was flying low over Sentinel Island to drop aid when it came under attack. Dozens of tribesmen fired bows and arrows at the helicopter, a traditional warning that outsiders aren't welcome. A senior police officer said the crew weren't hurt and the authorities are taking it as a sign that the tribes haven't been wiped out by the earthquake and sea surges as many had feared.
The Andaman and Nicobar archipelago is home to several primitive tribes, some so isolated that they are still stuck in the stone age. Officials believe they survived the devastation by using age-old early warning systems. They might have run to high ground for safety after noticing changes in the behaviour of birds and marine wildlife. Scientists are examining the possibility to see whether it can be used to predict earth tremors in future.
Posted by: tipper ||
01/04/2005 3:00:20 AM ||
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Dozens of tribesmen fired bows and arrows at the helicopter, a traditional warning that outsiders arenât welcome.
Excellent communication skillz for primative folk.
Posted by: James T Kirk ||
01/04/2005 9:10 Comments ||
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#5
What are the rules about contact with isolated primitive peoples anyway?
"As the right of each sentient species to live in accordance with its normal cultural evolution is considered sacred, no Star Fleet personnel may interfere with the healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes the introduction of superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Star Fleet personnel may not violate this Prime Directive, even to save their lives and/or their ship unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral obligation."
Posted by: Steve ||
01/04/2005 9:11 Comments ||
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#6
Bwahahahaha - first!
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/04/2005 9:22 Comments ||
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#7
It worries me that a member of the AOS would know that.
#16
Someone forgot to read their Political Correctness book. Obviously these were Cupid arrows, provided by the Left.
Hint: They don't wanna be your victims, folks, get lost.
Posted by: Captain America ||
01/04/2005 11:55 Comments ||
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#17
Any day now I'm expecting to read about tsunami victims firing AK-47s, RPG's and Stingers at US helicopters. I've already read about aid flights running into herds of cows on runways.
#21
Awww, give the tribesmen a break. Being primitive people, they are not familiar with the markings on modern aircraft and probably thought they were shooting at the UN.
#22
It's all very simple. Those tribals probably saw the water receding way past the typical low tide mark and connected the dots rather quickly. The resulting action? They ran like hell.
Austrian economists love to talk about "spontaneous order" in business-type settings, but it seems that markets can respond even to urgent calls for charity. From today's WSJ (subscription required):
Across the country a staggering number of fund-raising efforts are sprouting up to aid victims of the tsunami disaster. In addition to giants such as the American Red Cross a number of newer charities are emerging to draw tsunami relief funds. Among them: SurfAid International, of Encinitas, Calif., created to "coordinate the support of the global surfing community," and adoptsrilanka.com, a volunteer group founded just last week by a hotelier in Sri Lanka to quickly bring aid to ruined coastal communities. Do Something, a New York-based youth service group, has organized a "Kids Tsunami Relief Fund" to help youngsters raise money. Among the group's ideas: make the bed, take out the garbage or serve parents breakfast in bed in exchange for donations from mom and dad.
...Everyone from chefs to college kids are mobilizing to show support for tsunami victims. A coalition of students at Harvard University started their own fund-raising drive, while a Christian fellowship at Princeton is donating the proceeds of its "Winterlude" program to World Vision, a Christian relief organization. In New York, a number of well-known chefs are holding a dinner Jan. 11 to benefit Doctors Without Borders. New Year's celebrations turned into spontaneous tsunami benefits. On Friday, Brooklyn, N.Y., roommates Arshad Chowdhury and Benjamin Skinner, inspired by a college friend who had survived the tsunamis, sent out e-mails to the 350 invitees of their New Year's Eve party asking them to bring donations. They raised about $550 for tsunami relief. "Pretty good for 20-somethings who live paycheck to paycheck," says Mr. Skinner, a 28-year-old assistant to Richard Holbrooke, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. In Merrillville, Ind., members of the Indian Medical Association of Northwest Indiana set up a fund and raised $71,000 in pledges in the first five minutes of their New Year's Eve party.
Major retailers, such as Amazon.com Inc., Wal-mart Stores Inc., Safeway Inc. and Whole Foods Market Inc. have been collecting funds for the American Red Cross and other charities online or in stores. Amazon.com, which since Tuesday had replaced much of its home page with a plea for donations to the Red Cross, raised nearly $12.2 million from more than 151,000 individual donations as of yesterday afternoon. A San Carlos, Calif., company called AuctionDrop announced a program under which people can drop off used cameras, computers and other consumer electronics at UPS Stores, and AuctionDrop will sell them on eBay, donating the net proceeds to aid group CARE USA.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
01/04/2005 2:55:27 AM ||
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Jan. 3, 2005 A year ago on Monday, a small spacecraft named Spirit bounced to the surface of Mars to begin a dramatic quest to learn if life exists beyond Earth. The plot remains thick, the ending still unknown, but evidence painstakingly collected by NASA's two robotic geologists, Spirit and Opportunity, continue to peel away Mars' mysterious past. Opportunity celebrates its one-year anniversary on Mars on Jan. 24. A truly stunning achievement. Remotely operating a pair of fragile solar powered vehicles on another planet for an entire year. If we didn't already have spacecraft exiting our solar system, this would seem to be a milestone by itself. Instead, this is just another notch in the star-studded Orion's belt of modern American spaceflight.
However, until the rovers bounced to the surface of Mars and began conducting mineralogical studies of rocks and soils, scientists had no chemical evidence of water's existence. Opportunity, which landed fortuitously in a small crater in an area known as Meridiani Planum, provided the first and so far strongest evidence of water. "When Opportunity landed, the vehicle came to rest in a small impact crater about 20 meters in diameter. And after opening up and unfolding, the rover took a picture of the inside of the impact crater, only eight meters away or so from the lander. You can see layered bedrock exposed and easily accessible to the rover. It was a really magical moment when we saw this picture," said rover lead scientist Steve Squyres with Cornell University. Personal friends of mine helped develop the compact X-ray spectrometer mounted on these wee-wheeled wonders.
Upon closer inspection, the rover found hundreds of small spherical formations nicknamed "blueberries" by the science team laced with an iron-rich mineral that commonly forms only in the presence of water. Scientists concluded that at least part of Meridiani Planum was covered by a shallow, salty ocean. The rover also snapped pictures of a rock called "The Dells," etched with ancient ripples. "This was caused by water long ago, flowing over a bed of sand, and forming little ripples," said Squyres. "Then they got preserved for all time in the rock." Whether life had an opportunity to take hold while water was present will be a question for future missions to answer. NASA is preparing to launch in August its most sophisticated remote sensing device to date. It will be followed later this decade by rovers to dig deep into the frozen Martian ice and a science lab to analyze rock and soil samples for microbial life.
Scientists are far from finished with Spirit and Opportunity. The rovers, which were designed to last 90 days, are continuing to explore new vistas. Spirit, which was expected to travel about one-third of a mile, journeyed nearly 2 1/2 miles to reach the top of a group of hills named after the shuttle Columbia crew. The layered rocks hold promise of additional findings of past water. Opportunity has climbed out of a crater and is poised to investigate its own discarded airbags. Scientists want to study the soil that was uncovered by the rover's bounced landing, while engineers want to use the data to design better gear for more challenging landings. All this mechanical performance in an environment, not just of sand or dust, but fines. Hovering in the one micron or less range (~ 1/1,000,000 Meter) this end product of a sustained non-aqueous environment usually jams the most robust mechanisms and can even cake up an object with no moving parts at all. Add a chemically reactive nature to such naturally-ocurring jeweler's rouge and you have the daily dose these rovers get.
My hat is off to NASA for this spectacular effort. In the absence of any moon program, this certainly serves as continuing evidence of American aerospace excellence.
Posted by: Zenster ||
01/04/2005 1:30:46 AM ||
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Instead, this is just another notch in the star-studded Orionâs belt of modern American spaceflight.
Z's a pro boys and girls, don't try this at home.
;>
#2
I'm not surprised the rovers have lasted this long. When you set out to design something that has a very high probability of successfully completing a 90-day mission in a harsh environment, you're likely to end up with something that lasts a long, long time.
These little critters could be up there for years, trundling around the Martian landscape, rubbernecking the scenary and poking at rocks. I just hope the mission team doesn't run out of ideas of things for them to do.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
01/04/2005 8:21 Comments ||
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#3
I watch a feed over the net of JPL when the second lander came down. Very enjoyable night.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
01/04/2005 8:50 Comments ||
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#4
The rover also snapped pictures of a rock called "The Dells"
Having grown up in the Chicago area, I'm conditioned now to expect the following discoveries in the area:
1) A sign that reads "Ride the Ducks"
2) Tommy Martian's Water Ski Show paraphenalia
3) Xanadu: House of the future
("In Xanadu did Tommy Bartlett a stately house of foam decree...")
#5
Dave: I see the mission team has sent rover to look at its own discarded entry parts to learn more about how they performed. Seems like a good, unplanned idea, and kind of 'out of the box'.
#6
eLarson: What I want to know is, have they run across any "See Rock City" signs?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
01/04/2005 9:15 Comments ||
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#7
Phil - LOL! Rock City is awesome.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
01/04/2005 9:23 Comments ||
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#8
So we invaded Mars too? Is there no end to the Bush madness? He will not stop until he controls the entire galaxy! We need to show our support to the Marsians who must now live under the ditorial boot of Bush II.
#10
Worse than that, Cyber Sarge. Remember that we've found that Mars is experiencing warming. See? Bush not only screws up our global climate, but he screws it up on other planets, too!
#14
Phil - Or "The House On the Rock" for that matter. Or ... The Mars Cheese Castle. (Okay, okay... it's along 94 and not near the Wisconsin Dells, but hey...)
--
On topic, here's a link to JPL's site for the Sojourners.
#17
Seems to me, all the picture taking, and soil scooping could have been done either on "The Face" or near it! That would really have spurred Public Opinion & Interest of the program! I admit, I would have been on the edge off my seat if one of the rovers drove up to the cheek of the mound! Who knows, maybe even a storm would have occured, just like in that Mars movie!!
Posted by: Korora ||
01/04/2005 12:03:58 AM ||
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Now I'm glad I sent my Audobon magazines to the soldiers in Iraq (an aquaintance's nephew is a sniper, and I piggyback on her shipments with whatever seems useful or amusing).
In a major move in the New Year, the newly-constituted Anti-Corruption Commission has asked 13 secretaries of the government of Prime Minister Khaleda Zia to explain to the commission within four days about 1,028 missing cars belonging to their ministries, which must have been deposited to the Central Transport Pool, on completion of development projects for which these were purchased. The notices were served on the secretaries, including the Ministries of Local Government, Rural Development and Cooperatives, Education, Primary and Mass Education, Agriculture, Health, Information, Establishment, Finance and Planning, Youth, Social Welfare, Economic Relations Division, and Telecommunications, an ACC official told newsmen in Dhaka yesterday. The luxury cars were purchased with government money for use in different development projects, and those have been under alleged disposal of high officials of the concerned ministries even after completion of the projects, although the vehicles were supposed to be returned to the CTP under the Ministry of Establishment. Earlier, a committee, headed by a senior official of the Prime Minister's Office, formed in April last year, could recover only 176 cars in 18-month duration of the probe body. The prices of the missing motor cars are estimated to be 2,000 million taka.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 00:00:00 ||
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Residents near Memphis, Tennessee have objected to plans for a Muslim cemetery, suggesting that the cemetery could bring "terrorism and disease" to the area. When local Muslims announced plans to turn an old farm near Memphis into a cemetery, angry neighbors protested saying the burial ground could become "a staging ground for terrorists or spread disease from unembalmed bodies." Faced with a flurry of objections they believe are based on their religion, representatives of the Muslim Society of Memphis withdrew their proposal to build a cemetery in the county.
Dr. Muhamed Zaman, a professor of medicine at the University of Tennessee and president of the Muslim Society of Memphis, told Arab News by phone yesterday that the majority of local residents in the immediate area of the 27-acre Fayette County tract do not seem to be opposed. The Fayette County Planning Commission approved the proposal, and Dr. Zaman said the proposed site is in an area with 17 existing cemeteries, including one located directly across the road.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/04/2005 00:00:00 ||
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What, are Muslims supposed to be too good to be buried with kufr? The Roman Catholic Church is by default much more unified per se than Islam, yet they don't want to build special cemeteries designed to prevent Catholics from being buried alongside Protestants, Jews, or even "Chinese popular religionists"!
(I'm speaking as a non-religious member of the last. My grandmother even visited a fortune teller due to marital problems at home; apparently we're an unlucky family due to problems on both sides, I'm "bright but with a mind of [my] own" ...)
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
01/04/2005 3:10 Comments ||
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#2
Edward, many religious organizations have their own cemeteries. I can't speak to NYC, but I know that in Buffalo, NY and Cincinnati, OH the Catholics have their own church-run cemeteries, as does the Jewish community and various of the Protestant denominations. In fact, if you look at a map, there are several 'cemetery rows,' with the various cemeteries lying right next to each other, with shared wrought iron fences between. I've no doubt there are also non-denominational cemeteries, for those who do not choose to be buried with their co-religionists in hallowed ground.
I don't see the problem with adding a Muslim cemetery to an area where 17 others already exist, so long as the treatment of the bodies conforms to local laws. Clearly the Muslims already have organized into a congregation, whether or not the Saudis have built them a mosque.
#3
I have no problem with muslim cemeteries, I think we need more of them. Great, big, huge cemeteries, starting with the area between the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/04/2005 11:55 Comments ||
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#4
The way they are perceived now, any collection of Muslims is a staging ground for terrorists.
#5
The story implied that muslims bury their dead unembalmed. I've got a problem with that. In most (if not all) states, a body is required to be either embalmed or cremated. It really is a health thing.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
01/04/2005 12:15 Comments ||
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#6
In most (if not all) states, a body is required to be either embalmed or cremated.
#7
I've got a problem with that. In most (if not all) states, a body is required to be either embalmed or cremated.
Im quite sure thats NOT correct. Both embalming and cremation violate Jewish practice as well by the way. Ive lost two parents, and Im quite sure we didnt embalm or cremate either.
#8
" embalming required by law?
In California, Except in certain special cases, embalming is not required by law. Embalming may be necessary, however, if you select certain funeral arrangements, such as a funeral with viewing. If you do not want embalming, you usually have the right to choose an arrangement which does not require you to pay for it, such as direct cremation or immediate burial.
Embalming sanitizes and provides temporary preservation of the body, decelerates the decomposition process, and enhances the appearance of a body disfigured by traumatic death or illness.
Embalming makes it possible to lengthen the time between death and the final disposition, thus allowing family member´s time to arrange and participate in the type of service most meaningful to them. "
well that explains it. Jews bury right away, usually within 24 hours, and dont view. Muslims follow the same customs, IIUC.
#9
I'll take your word for it, LH - every funeral I've been to the body was embalmed, and I seem to remember one of the states I lived in required it. Surprised it's not required in all, unless the body is cremated (quickly).
Wonder why it's not a public health hazard to bury unembalmed bodies? Wouldn't that create a problem with the groundwater? (Or, perhaps, didn't it create a problem before we came up with modern sealed caskets?)
Or maybe that's more about dead bodies than I would want to know.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
01/04/2005 13:55 Comments ||
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#10
Barbara, nope, the real reason embalming became a widespread practice in this country had nothing to do with health. It was to preserve bodies for transport back home during the Civil War. Unless you are doing a viewing several days after the death, you really don't need it. Most states don't require it nowadays.
Matter of fact, back in the 80's I believe there were some undertakers refusing to embalm AIDS victims because doing so would have endangered their health more than leaving the bodies intact.
Dead bodies, although sometimes kinda gross, aren't really much of a health hazard if you don't leave them around to become maggot breeding areas, or so that wild animals can eat them. The only possible exception that I could think of recently was during the Ebola outbreaks in Africa, where the corpses were wrapped in plastic. If you bury them in not-so-soggy soil, they aren't going to contaminate the groundwater, either. That's mainly funeral parlor talk to get you to spend lotsa $$ on sealed casket liners (THAT'S when it gets really disgusting....you don't wanna be around if they have to open one of those things. I will spare you the details, but let me put it this way.....anaerobic decomposition is unbelievably revolting.)
Sorry, I bet that was way too much information. My bad.
#11
I'll take your word for it, LH - every funeral I've been to the body was embalmed
how would you know, unless it was you were doing the arrangements, or it was open casket? Again, open casket violates Jewish, and, I think, muslim, practice. As does any delay in burial.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
In an unusual step, the group's branches in France and Germany said they had 40 million and $27 million respectively, enough to finance emergency medical aid projects they were supporting in Sri Lanka and Indonesia. 
Pakistan Peoples Party leaders are planning to forward to party chairperson Benazir Bhutto details of a proposal that calls for her husband, 
Zimbabwe's ruling party has dropped three key ministers as candidates for polls due in March in the latest sign that President Robert Mugabe was stamping his authority on the party after a row over the succession. The official Herald newspaper said yesterday Information Minister Jonathan Moyo, Justice Minister Patrick Chinamasa, and Finance Minister Chris Kuruneri were missing from a list of ZANU-PF officials to contest the parliamentary polls.
Jan. 3, 2005 A year ago on Monday, a small spacecraft named Spirit bounced to the surface of Mars to begin a dramatic quest to learn if life exists beyond Earth. The plot remains thick, the ending still unknown, but evidence painstakingly collected by NASA's two robotic geologists, Spirit and Opportunity, continue to peel away Mars' mysterious past. Opportunity celebrates its one-year anniversary on Mars on Jan. 24.
