Democratic Rep. Robert T. Matsui of California, who spent time in an internment camp for Japanese-Americans as an infant during World War II and went on to serve 26 years in Congress, has died [Saturday night] of complications from a rare disease, his family said Sunday. He was 63 years old. May God bless him and keep him, and give him peace.
He was the chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee for the past two years, in charge of the unsuccessful effort to regain control of the House. He also was the third-ranking Democrat on the powerful House Ways and Means Committee, where he was his party's point man on Social Security legislation. In a statement announcing Mr. Matsui's death, his office disclosed that the congressman was diagnosed several months ago with milo dysplastic disorder, a rare stem-cell disorder that reduces the body's ability to produce red blood cells, white blood cells and platelets. Victims of the disease are left more susceptible to other illnesses, with less ability to fight them off. The statement said Mr. Matsui entered the hospital on Dec. 24 with pneumonia. Mr. Matsui was recently re-elected with ease to his 14th term in Congress. His death will trigger a special election for a new representative in his Sacramento-area district. While it will be interesting to see who takes his place, the result will nonetheless be a weaker Democratic party without his seniority and knowledge. These days the Dems can't win for losing.
Mr. Matsui was born in 1941. The following year, his family was among the Japanese-Americans forced into internment camps during World War II. Decades later, he helped pass legislation which apologized for the internment policy and provided compensation for the survivors. Mr. Matsui won his seat in Congress in 1978. He generally supported Democratic legislation, but his support for global-trade legislation put him at odds with members of his party on some high-profile measures. As senior Democrat on the subcommittee on Social Security, he gave every impression during the final few weeks of his life of being eager to lead the opposition to President Bush's plans to establish personal retirement accounts as part of a general overhaul of the program.
Posted by: trailing wife ||
01/03/2005 7:32:17 AM ||
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I am no Dummycrat, but this guy was class.
Posted by: Captain America ||
01/03/2005 20:03 Comments ||
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Myelodysplastic Syndrome is a term for a set of diseases where the body produces immature and ineffective red blood cells, and low numbers of the other types, but where the bone marrow has excess number of cells. MDS can evolve into acute myelogenous leukemia.
#6
There's a photo of Dan Rather at the bottom of page 9 talking to the commander of carrier strike group nine (USS Abraham Lincoln). You'll notice the commander is not offering any hands to Rather (probably wants to keep both of them).
GSTW - that's really weak, they were on their way back home after (I believe) a six month stint and now they're out there helping those people. It is a Navy website after all...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
01/03/2005 18:54 Comments ||
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January 3, 2005: Apparently, at least three submarines (American, Chinese and Indian), detected the December 26th underwater earthquake that caused the tidal waves that left over 150,000 dead along the shores of the Indian ocean. Modern submarines carry sensitive sensors used to detect other subs, and surface ships. These sensors also pick up the sounds of underwater creatures, as well as underwater volcanoes and earthquakes. A Cold War system of fixed sensors in the Pacific also picks up natural underwater events, and led to the current early warning system there for events like the December 26th catastrophe. The American and Indian subs are said to have returned to base, but not the Chinese sub. If the subs were close enough to the quake, they could have been damage by the underwater shock waves that caused the tidal waves. Chinese subs are more likely to suffer damage from poorly trained crews, than from underwater earthquakes.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/03/2005 9:45:25 AM ||
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#1
If the subs were close enough to the quake, they could have been damage by the underwater shock waves that caused the tidal waves
#2
'...American and Indian subs are said to have returned to base, but not the Chinese sub...',
What?! Do the Chinese have big balls after all, or were they incredibly stupid, like that Chinese pilot a few years back?! And no, I don't believe it was to prevent blowing their cover!
#5
There is not mention of damage to ther Sub referenced. I would imagine the Chinese subs are still on station.
Subs with nuclear tiped missles are dangerous all the crew need to is be able to get them deployed. Their lack of skill in other respects isn't relavant as long as they can get even one off.
Don't make the mistake of under estimating the Chinese. It's a very bad mistake. Not all of them are farmers, not all the products they produce are crappy. If they so desire they can produce any item in sufficient quality and quanity for their purposes. There is a huge ignorance of China in the us. Most opinions about them are wrong. The Chinese educational system is a good one. The last thing anyone should do is think the Chinese are not able to engineer and invent technology was well or better than we can. It's a huge mistake.
#7
Thanks, Zen. My point is that authoritarian political structures invariably breed massive corruption, and to the extent that military command structures are implicated in this corruption, you get laziness, brutality inattention to detail and sheer incompetence in the officer corps. Knowing about the massive corruption of the Chinese military, I'd guess that the officers' competence is a good deal less than that of the industrial managerial class.
The head of World Vision Australia says heavy monsoonal rain and a lack of coordination by authorities are hampering relief efforts in parts of Sri Lanka hit by the tsunami. Reverend Tim Costello has returned to Australia after touring some of the affected areas of Sri Lanka and says only small amounts of aid are getting through. "Roads that are absolutely choked, often with sightseers or even people taking private aid, now with monsoonal rains being cut off again," he said. "Most extraordinarily I guess [is] just the chaos and lack of coordination of the Government. "The Government has lost many prominent people - the death notices in the papers about prominent elite in Sri Lanka and in Government who've died has meant that they've been a bit paralysed also." Reverend Costello says the Sri Lankan Government has been in shock but is beginning to ramp up its relief efforts.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
01/03/2005 5:06:53 AM ||
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Kuwait's information minister resigned yesterday, one day before he was due to be questioned in parliament mainly over allowing "immoral" Western-style concerts in the country. Mohammad Abulhasan handed in his resignation to Prime Minister Shaikh Sabah Al Ahmad Al Sabah, the state news agency Kuna reported, adding that it was sent to the Amir, His Highness Shaikh Jaber Al Ahmad Al Sabah, to decide whether to accept it. "I handed in my resignation ... not to avoid serving my country or in fear of political questioning, but to protect my country from political discussions, skirmishes and wrangling from which we would all lose," Kuna quoted Abulhasan as saying.
"I quit!"
Shaikh Sabah said that Labour Minister Faisal Al Hajji would oversee the information ministry for the time being, Kuna said. Abulhasan, the only Shia minister in the 18-member cabinet, was due to be questioned today by some MPs over allegations including neglect of social values after he approved music concerts deemed un-Islamic by critics. Shaikh Sabah has warned that the questioning, demanded by Sunni MPs, could lead to sectarian rifts in the state if it were mishandled. Shias make up one-third of the pro-Western country's population of 950,000 and hold five seats in the 50-member parliament.
How, um, democratic.
Waleed Al Tabtabae, a key critical MP, accused Abulhasan of "running away from political responsibility" by resigning and said there were no differences between Shia and Sunni members of parliament over the case. "The questioning covers issues agreed upon by both Sunnis and Shi'ites which is to protect values and morals," he told Arab satellite television Al Arabiya. "We do not object to serious and composed concerts, but we oppose events which encourage corruption and immorality."Â
Send this man a Britney Spears concert tape and some .com photos from the file.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/03/2005 12:23:07 AM ||
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âI handed in my resignation ... but to protect my country from political discussions,....from which we would all lose".
IT was like a scene from a Laurel and Hardy movie - a waiter pulls out a chair behind an illustrious guest and the guest crashes to the floor. But this time, the diner was the Queen - and she landed on her corgis. When fellow royals realised the Queen and the dogs had escaped injury, the family burst into hysterics. "Even the Queen thought it was hilarious. It's been the talk of the palace all week," an insider told the Mail on Sunday. The unceremonious dethronement came on Christmas evening as the family enjoyed a buffet dinner at Sandringham. As the Queen stood up, 25-year-old Fraser Marlton-Thomas - in royal service for only eight months - pulled her chair back from the table, assuming she was going to the buffet. A source said: "The chair had gone and she just fell backwards, almost in slow motion. "She always feeds her dogs titbits from the table and they were milling around her feet. A couple of them cushioned her fall and she ended up in a heap."
Posted by: God Save The World ||
01/03/2005 10:23:44 PM ||
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"She always feeds her dogs titbits from the table and they were milling around her feet. A couple of them cushioned her fall and she ended up in a heap."
At last. Some sort of evidence that toy dogs are of use as anything but appetizers for real hounds.
#2
25-year-old Fraser Marlton-Thomas - in royal service for only eight months
He's lucky it wasn't Elizabeth the First he pulled the chair out from under. The court would be laughing hilariously at his beheading.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/03/2005 8:55 Comments ||
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Turkmenistan, seeking higher prices for its natural gas, shut off supplies to Russia and Ukraine on Saturday, and Russia's OAO Gazprom pledged the cutoff won't affect its customers further down the line. Turkmen officials and representatives of Russia's state-owned natural-gas company Gazprom held talks Friday in Moscow on resuming the supplies to Russia, the Turkmen Foreign Ministry said. The ministry said the interruption in supplies to Russia is because of pipeline repairs and will last until Jan. 7. The ministry said the head of Gazprom will fly to Turkmenistan in early January to sign a new contract. The ministry also said that no discussions had been held with Ukrainian officials. Gazprom Deputy Chief Executive Alexander Ryazanov said Friday that the cutoff won't affect Gazprom's obligations to Russian and foreign consumers. But Mr. Ryazanov said that "under the conditions of complete termination of Turkmen gas supplies...Gazprom will not be able to compensate supplies under the Turkmen-Ukrainian contract."
Turkmenistan had said it would cut off all gas supplies to Ukraine beginning Friday due to the lack of a contract for 2005. There were no immediate signs of gas shortages in either country. Russia could meet its gas needs on its own, but the less-costly Turkmen supplies relieve Gazprom of costly investments in natural-gas field exploration and development in Siberia. Ukraine, however, gets some 45% of its natural gas from Turkmenistan and potentially could see an impact on its economy. Last month, the Turkmen national gas company said it would raise the price of natural gas for Russia and Ukraine to $60, or about â¬45, per 1,000 cubic meters from $44.
Turkmenistan, the second-largest natural-gas producer in the former Soviet Union after Russia, has said the price increase was connected to increased production costs and a major increase in the cost of gas-extraction equipment. The country said it planned to export 41 billion cubic meters of gas to Ukraine and Russia this year. By 2007, its annual exports are expected to reach 100 billion cubic meters.
Posted by: trailing wife ||
01/03/2005 7:45:18 AM ||
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January 2, 2005: China is converting older frigates and destroyers to APDs (fast transports). At the rate the conversions are going, China will soon have at least eight APDs. The first to be converted are the Jianghu class frigates, which were built in the 1970s and are now being retired. To create an APD, most weapons are removed from these frigates, with the now empty spaces modified to transport cargo or troops. The 1,800 ton Jianghu's have a top speed of about 46 kilometers an hour. This enables APDs to move quickly, especially during darkness, to reach their destination.
Gonna try to run the "Slot" to Taiwan, are you now?
Shorter travel time makes the APDs less vulnerable to attack (and easier to defend, especially if you have to keep fighters overhead.) Taiwan is 300 kilometers from the Chinese coast. Each APD could carry several hundred troops, or a few hundred tons of cargo.
Looks like they really want to have a go at taking a beach under fire. Say hello to Chairman Mao for me when you get to hell.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/03/2005 9:39:10 AM ||
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it'll be like playing Frogger again
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/03/2005 9:47 Comments ||
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Maybe Taiwan should make a public request to the US for information on how nuclear weapons affect massed naval vessels.
Just, you know, out of curiosity.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
01/03/2005 10:00 Comments ||
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A few hundred troops per ships ain't gonna cut it. An amphibious assault on Taiwan would need a hell of a lot more than that.
#5
I once read a story from WWII, of how a B-25 bomber strafed a convoy of Japanese ships with 10 .50 cal machine guns. One ship in particular caught the notice of a different pilot who initially thought that it was loaded with lumber, as what looked like huge amounts of large splinters of wood were being thrown up into the air. He soon realized that it was a troop ship, with soldiers packed onto the decks. He had been seeing arms and legs.
#8
The 21st Century equivalent to Ironbottom Sound.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
01/03/2005 13:58 Comments ||
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#9
Spot: think "bridgehead"...
Agreed, I think they hope to seize a airfield or a section of highway to use as one. Then under cover of Chinese air force fly in masses of troops to expand the zone.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/03/2005 14:02 Comments ||
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#11
If they throw enough troops at Taiwan, fast enough, they can do it. I am NOT convinced that the Taiwanese government is willing to fight on after a substantial beachead is gained. Remember that the first wave will be preceded by hundreds of IRBM's and shorter range missles. The fixed defenses will get a pasting by the Reds, and C3 may be a problem.
#14
The German High Command couldn't figure out a way to get acros the 30 miles to Britian without air superiority. Good luck to the Chinese. Establish a bridgehead with lightly armed men coming off shot up air transport? Talk about the Marianna turkey shoot redux. First the Germans, then the Japanese, now the Chinese. Everybody has to learn the hard way.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
01/03/2005 17:54 Comments ||
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A Japanese cult behind a deadly 1995 gas attack on the Tokyo subway will end a ritual in which followers spend long hours in scalding water after a sect member died in a bathtub. Wakashio Togashi, 45, who had been a senior member of the Aum Supreme Truth cult, was found dead in the bathtub at another Aum follower's house in Tokyo on Saturday, a police spokesman said. Togashi had served seven years in prison for helping build a plant to produce Nazi-invented sarin gas used by the cult in several attacks. "We found that he drowned to death, but the group suspects that he died from an accident while going through hot water training," the spokesman said.
"He was making a broth of himself, and somehow went under..."
Members of the doomsday cult are supposed to soak for long hours in water at temperatures of about 50 degrees Celsius. The cult, which was renamed Aleph in 2000, said in a statement: "We have imposed a total ban on hot water training from now on."
"We found out soup's included if if you order the lunch special..."
The Aum Supreme Cult was founded in 1984 after its founder was dropped on his head combining Buddhist and Hindu mysticism with apocalyptic visions. The sect spread sarin gas on the Tokyo subway in March 1995, killing 12 people and injuring thousands in an apparent bid to ward off a police raid. Shoko Asahara, the founder of the Aum Supreme Truth sect, was sentenced to death in February for crimes including the subway attack. He is appealing against the sentence but his lawyers have tried unsuccessfully to suspend the hearing arguing that the guru is no longer psychologically sound.
"It's that lump on his head. We think it's growing..."
In October, four breakaway members of the cult were arrested for allegedly battering a woman to death with bamboo sticks in a Tokyo apartment in an exercise meant to rid her of bad karma.
Guess they got rid of her bad karma for her, didn't they?
Posted by: God Save The World ||
01/03/2005 4:59:09 AM ||
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The Australian Democrats have called for the Federal Government to open up Australia as a temporary haven for the survivors of last week's devastating tsunami in Asia. Democrats leader Lyn Allison says the Government should provide temporary protection for people from communities where housing and infrastructure have been completely destroyed. Senator Allison says five years ago several hundred Kosovo Albanian refugees were granted temporary visas in Australia after the long-running Balkans conflict flared again. She says the tsunami disaster should prompt similar support from the Commonwealth. "We're suggesting perhaps adopting a village and opening up our doors to families who've got no shelter at the present time in the same way that we did during the Balkans crisis," she said. "We're also suggesting that visas could be extended to those people from these regions who happen to be visiting Australia at present and perhaps offered to those who've got immediate family in this country as well."
A Darwin man who has lost up 10 members of his family in western Sumatra has issued a similar plea, appealing for the Government to grant temporary visas for his remaining relatives. Khairul Syah has been told the bodies of his nephew and niece have been found at the devastated village of Meulaboh. Eight other family members are missing and presumed dead. Mr Syah says he wants to bring his surviving family members to Darwin. "I want the Australia Government to [allow] my sister and my brother and their son ... [to] come to Darwin for the moment because he doesn't have a house," he said.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
01/03/2005 5:03:06 AM ||
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You could tell this was coming from a mile away. Sounds like the Australian Democrats are just like Democrats here - any excuse to import foreigners for their votes.
Surf lifesavers on Perth beaches rescued more than 190 people who were caught in dangerous surf conditions at Trigg and Scarborough beaches today. There was one mass rescue of 14 people at Scarborough and two at Trigg, one involving 30 people and the other 15. The operations manager of Surf Lifesaving Western Australia, Grant Trew, says a larger than usual swell created dangerous conditions, including a number of rips. As a result, lifesavers closed the designated swimming area at one point. Ambulances were called to North Cottesloe and Floreat beaches as a precaution. "Trigg's [lifesavers] alone have done about 127 rescues, so it was a very busy day," Mr Trew said. "With the swell being up around two-and-a-half metres and very warm conditions and obviously the last day of what has been a fairly long festive season for a lot of people, there's a lot of people at the beaches. [That] combined with the swell [means] we're having a lot of rescues at those beaches."
Posted by: God Save The World ||
01/03/2005 5:01:29 AM ||
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Care Australia has accepted $500,000 in donations from Clubs New South Wales, after World Vision rejected the money. World Vision rejected the funds because they were raised from revenue from gambling and alcohol but the group has since changed its mind. Clubs New South Wales says World Vision's change of heart is too late and it will honour a new agreement with Care Australia. Care Australia's Grant Thomas says it is not concerned about where the money has come from. "On behalf of Care Australia we're extremely thrilled with the $500,000 donation from Clubs NSW," he said. "The funding's going to go towards some oral rehydration tablets which are desperately needed in the Aceh region at the moment. Clearly the devastation that is across there at the moment is absolutely incredible so we're grateful for the support."
Sometimes being holier than thou also leaves you broke.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
01/03/2005 5:04:35 AM ||
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WorldVision has billions and is probably the most effective NGO on the planet. $500k is chump change to them.
Croatia's pro-Western president failed to win an outright majority for re-election on Sunday, forcing him to face a runoff vote against the conservative government's candidate in two weeks.
Mr. Mesic had 48.92% of the votes in Sunday's election -- just over 1% short of an outright majority that would have given him a first-round victory, the state-run Electoral Commission announced after 99.5% of votes were counted. The turnout was just over 50%. The 70-year-old incumbent, who was backed by most opposition parties, declared the results a "brilliant victory" and voiced confidence that he would win the runoff on Jan. 16. "I led Croatia to the doors of the [mainstream] Europe, and I will lead it to it," Mr. Mesic said, to the euphoric cheers from his supporters.
His opponent, Jadranka Kosor, a minister of families and war veterans in the ruling conservative Croatian Democratic Union-led Cabinet, was trailing far behind with 20.18%.
Both Mr. Mesic and Ms. Kosor have pledged to maintain Croatia's pro-Western course and cooperate with the U.N. war crimes tribunal in The Hague, Netherlands. Continued on Page 49
Posted by: trailing wife ||
01/03/2005 7:39:05 AM ||
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#4
No one seems to have pointed out that Morocco is not in Europe, which would seem to be a prerequisite to being part of the EUROPEAN Union. Or maybe it's just me . . . .
Posted by: Tibor ||
01/03/2005 15:30 Comments ||
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Al Reuters reports that Dick Lugar wants to be even more generous with taxpayer money. Between his moronic comments on Iraq and his expansive plans for spending other people's (taxpayer) money, I think we really need to run someone against this guy in the next Republican primary.
By Randall Mikkelsen
The United States may eventually spend billions of dollars to help Asia recover from last week's devastating tsunami, a leading Republican U.S. senator said on Sunday as the Bush administration battled criticism it had been slow to respond. Battled criticism? Al Reuters seems to think that aid is money that they can get from us at gunpoint - such that if we don't pony up anything they want, they can jeer even as we are handing millions in cash over. As far as I'm concerned they can go **** themselves. If that's their attitude, my preference would be for zero aid dollars to go out there.
The $350 million in aid pledged so far by President Bush represents the entire U.S. foreign disaster assistance budget, and Congress will work to pass emergency legislation to go "well beyond" that figure, said Sen. Richard Lugar, an Indiana Republican and head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Lugar, asked on "Fox News Sunday" whether U.S. aid could reach billions of dollars, said "ultimately there could be, given all that is occurring in Indonesia."
#1
Reading between the lines, it is a fact that most recovery of bodies was being done by locals. Also, local food production facilities were cranking up supplies, which local truckers were shipping to tsunami victims. Indian pharmaceutical companies can supply any anti-cholera and anti-biotic medication needs, for the whole area. The only problem is that victims have no means to pay. Therefore, let's let the locals formulate distribution and reconstruction plans, and then help finance same, if these are realistic. Last Thursday, 20 planes were sitting on affected country runways, waiting for bureaucrat clearance, while Indonesian mullahs were fatwahing on hijab rules for US female soldiers. More assessment is needed before we open the vaults.
#2
The Liberal Loony Left may see this disaster as a time to claim entitlement to the purse strings of the U.S. -- but itâs not the people in the countries that have suffered that are doing all the clamoring. This is nothing new. The LLL has spent decades amassing and maintaining power as the Most Caring⢠head of its demented Malthusian world order. As Peggy Noonan recently noted, these âpeople are slyly asserting their own, higher sensitivity and getting credit for it, which is odd because what they're actually doing is using dead people to make cheap points.â
Even steeped in national tragedy, the Indonesian government took time to put out Press Release No. 94/PR/XII/2004 that included the following:
The Government of Indonesia highly appreciates the humanitarian assistance pledged and dispatched by friendly countries from all over the world as well as by international organizations, NGOs, and even individuals.
The people hardest hit are not the ones complaining. I say we just ignore the taunts and jibes of the LLL, and go about being the compassionate country weâve always been. Weâve never needed guilt trips before, and certainly donât need any now. Nor should we let guilt trips cause us to balk from our fine intentions.
In the face of scenes like this, which must be riddled with rotting corpses,
scenes like this are the only proper human response.
#3
while Indonesian mullahs were fatwahing on hijab rules for US female soldiers
In their dreams, and in Al-Jazeeraâs fantasies (Did you get your info about that from this article?). Al-Jazeera does not have a great track record for accuracy and truth. Indonesia does not have shariah law; not even in Aceh. Rather, Indonesia, which just held the first direct election for a president this past fall, has fairly western jurisprudence.
The simple fact is the province of Aceh has been decimated in a fashion that even a U.S. county would have trouble recovering from. The greatest problem to distributing aid right now in Aceh is that the roads and communication systems are gone. An "on the scene" fairly neutral assessment of the problems can be found in this article entitled Aid Distribution Crisis.
#4
I read that you had a personal attachment to Indonesia, cingold, and I don't begrudge giving reasonable amounts of aid, but I do object to EXCESSIVE amounts give aways. You and other citizens who have personal links to the area can give privately to supplement the "reasonable amount" of taxpayer funded aid, of course, BUT IMO "$350 million in aid pledged so far by President Bush represents the entire U.S. foreign disaster assistance budget" is NUTS and I resent it. Let these media crazy US politicians dig deep in their family trusts to give more $. Not more $ from me thank you very much.
You should be ashamed of yourself, you cold-hearted b!#ch. Youâd take that stance with people in these dire straits?
Or, are you just some jihadi scumbag hoping the U.S. takes the isolationistic bait, because you want the hearts and minds of the oppressed to know nothing but your version of religion?
#6
I don't give a rat's ass who gets credit. I don't give a rat's ass what other people think. I don't give a rat's ass about $350 million. I don't even give a rat's ass about these peoples religion or lack of it. If $350 mill is not enough we should pony up more. I do care about getting these poor people back on their feet as soon as we can. It's only money. We have proved we and our political economic can always make more.
You stupid isolationist bigots talking your racist and religionist crap can FOAD. Oh yea Lugar is a bumbling assclown too.
#7
"Let these media crazy US politicians dig deep in their family trusts to give more $. Not more $ from me thank you very much."
"Family trusts", my ass.
Three hundred fifty million dollars amounts to roughly $1.25 for every man, woman and child in this country. For me, one day's snack money-- hell, not even that.
The basic problem here is that you're a cheap, selfish bastard.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
01/03/2005 3:22 Comments ||
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#8
The basic problem here is that you 3 are cheap and selfish socialists who want all taxpayers to go beyond REASONABLE aid because the onus would fall on you to dig deep in your bleeding heart liberal purses ( you are ex-liberals like I'm the man in the moon). Btw, I am neither racist nor isolationaist, but maybe that's your pathetic liberal method of cowing people into agreeing with your emotional rants. I don't like government to spend my $ like drunken sailors so politicians can look like Daddy Warbucks on national TV. If you 3 are so magnaminous and generous, then cut some checks from your personal bank accounts and send them to the tsunami victims. No one is stopping you. But get your paws out of my wallet and grow up while your doing it.
I've never voted for a Democrat as far as I can remember. Iâve always voted fairly conservative, and fairly Republican. I even signed up for the draft without complaining as soon as the Selective Service was re-instituted. Yes, I have and will give. My guess is that the private U.S. contributions will outstrip almost every world government, save their own and maybe Japan. That doesn't mean that the U.S. Government shouldnât use tax dollars, as well, to help out at a time like this.
Joe, your reaction to human misery is pathetic. Like, youâre taking Darwin far too seriously. From a basic humanity kind of standpoint, Iâd be concerned that if this type of tragedy doesnât move you, nothing would. Do you feel much? When was the last time you had a feeling other than anger? Are you alone in life . . .
If youâre not emotionally stunted, you might just be jahadi troll-bait.
#10
You are a stupid troll joeblow. I already have dug into my wallet and given. I'll give even more if it's needful. You can call me alot of things but one you won't call me is a socialist. You ignorant little penis, how about you take your KKK troll show some place where your ignorance and insults are valued. FOAD.
#13
SPOD: You stupid isolationist bigots talking your racist and religionist crap can FOAD.
Shipman: Another cover blown. S-front refugee a lookin for a home?
This sounds like something out of DU. What part of being generous with your own money don't you understand? (Read about Davy Crockett on charitable giving in this article). Charity isn't a shakedown racket. To say that you only ripped someone else off for a token amount to fund your pet cause isn't an excuse. It's the same kind of excuse used to fund huge numbers of other pet causes, a million dollars or so at a time.
#14
Another cover blown. S-front refugee a lookin for a home
Excuse me,whatever your name is, sonny, shippy, chippy, whatever - children aren't allowed in this discussion. Get back in your crib.
I donated a hundred bucks. How much did you donate, Joe?
Goody for you. I donated nothing because a) I'm in a high tax bracket so it's suckers like me that bank roll all these gov't feel good programs in the first place and b) this is not a pet hobby horse that appears to be the case for you. I donate to other non profit programs throughout the year which I do not, btw, expect for you to fund c) I have no personal/family ties to this area of the globe but I do not begrudge any poster like cingold or yee that do want to give extra d) what may have not crossed any of your LIBERAL "it's for the little people" brains before because heck spending gov't's one big pot of $ is no big deal and heck it's only $1.50 each...blah, blah... giving $350 Million aid to Indonesia et al is spending out the entire foreign aid budget for this year. Capesh? And where do you think more aid $ is going to come from??? Do you bleeding hearts believe we just print up more $ at Ft. Knox whenever we run out? Catch this, geniuses - we borrow and go into a more GIGANTIC DEFICIT than we are already in due to re-building that shining city on the hill, Iraq. And I'm rather concerned that my kids and my grandkids and my great grand kids are going to have to pay off this GIGANTIC deficit that "ex-liberals" and RINO's like you seem to have no problem accumulating, because heck when you work it all out it comes out to $1.50 (plus $6,000 interest which you conveniently forget to compute).
P.S. And another thing, I may have another "good deed" use slotted for my $1.50 to spend on and I don't want socialists like you assuming that you can spend my $1.50 ( plus $6000 interest) on YOUR so called "heart felt" projects all the time.
You mean the one that says Amerika Syarikat bukan polisi dunia tapi penjahat dunia? If my limited Indonesian is correct, it means the following: Uncle Sam isn't a global policeman - he's a global criminal.
#21
if y'all dont like MOOSLIMS, just give some $ to Sri Lanka, where most victims aint MOOSLIMS. Israel has given help, and so has the American Jewish World Service.
#22
LH: if y'all dont like MOOSLIMS, just give some $ to Sri Lanka, where most victims aint MOOSLIMS. Israel has given help, and so has the American Jewish World Service.
I just don't like the anti-American set - and that happens to include most of the world, including all of the countries affected. If something like this happened in France, I wouldn't be indifferent - I'd get a spell of schadenfreude.
#23
Israel has given help, and so has the American Jewish World Service.
That's nice but how do those irrelevant factoids relate to what's under discussion?
What's being discussed is why we (the US taxpayers, not Israel taxpayers or a Jewish private organization) should bust the US's annual foreign aid piggy bank to give to one area of the world so we can look like the uber compassionate chumps we are to the squealing piggies at the UN? What about sticking to a REASONABLE amount of US taxpayer funded foreign aid, because we happen to have 2 costly wars and re-building efforts going on as we speak in MOOSLIM, to coin your word LH, dominated areas of the world already? Aren't we giving enough to the int'l world and Muslim countries specifically already?
Maybe other countries should send more aid this time round - like for example rich Muslim dominated countries like Saudi Arabia. Or perhaps rich Asian countries like China, yes that China who warms a seat on the UN Security Council for representing Asia in UN decision making, should dig deep in its successful Communist government wallet to send $ and military help to countries in its geographical region? Ever think of that Mr. & Mrs. Closet Bleeding Liberal Hearts?
Also, no one here has discouraged private donations or corporate donations on the virtue of these countries being Muslim countries. Some of us have said, thanks but no thanks, I have other priorities with my money much to the chagrin of do-gooders who see no difference between their money and others' money. It's one big socialist money pot to them.
What has been discouraged is the assumption by bleeding hearts who for a variety of reasons think it's A-OK to print more $ at Ft. Knox to finance all their pet hobby horses as they come up.
#24
I find it so amazing that the Government of this country has to use taxpayersâ money to help in catastrophes like the Tsunami in question. There are so many Hollywood celebrities (Sarandon, Cameron, Garafalo, Oprah, etc, Robbins, Sean, Depp,Gere, etc), entrepreneurs like Soros, Turner, Heinz, etc., who by just giving up one million out of the hundreds they make everday could put together an aid budget that would surpass the entire US Government budget for foreign emergency relief in half an hour. How hypocritical these people are!
#25
David Crockett on the generosity of politicians (with respect to charitable aid after a fire in Georgetown - not exactly on the other side of the world): There is one thing now to which I wish to call to your attention. You remember that I proposed to give a week's pay. There are in that House many very wealthy men --- men who think nothing of spending a week's pay, or a dozen of them, for a dinner or a wine party when they have something to accomplish by it. Some of those same men made beautiful speeches upon the great debt of gratitude which the country owed the deceased --- a debt which could not be paid by money --- and the insignificance and worthlessness of money, particularly so insignificance a sum as $10,000, when weighed against the honor of the nation. Yet not one of them responded to my proposition. Money with them is nothing but trash when it is come out of the people. But it is the one great thing for which most of them are striving, and many of them sacrifice honor, integrity, and justice to obtain it.
#26
I agree with ZF. I'm not opposed to foreign aid, and I'm not really concerned with the price tag. What I object to is being expected to help out people who continually and gleefully spit in our face. They didn't even wait until they had the cash this time, because of course the Americans will pay! That's what they're there for!
And yes, I have a problem with helping MOOSLIMS. This goes back to the argument about whether our enemy is a small group of Islamic fundamentalists, or Islam in general. I'm one of those who believe the latter, based on what I've seen and read. I don't believe in giving aid or comfort to the enemy.
Shipman, LOL! I'm not sure if I'd send money to SF, either!
#27
You guys who are criticizing the tsunami relief efforts remind me of a wonderful line delivered by Armand Assante in The Odyssey, that goes something to the effect of, âTo be angry is easy.â It is easy to paint all Indonesians with the same brush, but just as stupid to do so as it would be to say all Americans are well represented by the likes of these jerks:
More than one group out there claims we Americans are still bigots, even bigots against Muslims. See this link and this link, for example.
To say that Indonesia is diverse is an understatement. I gave my .02 cents worth about that topic in this link. Indonesia is about as diverse as the U.S., and has just as many extremes, extremists, and nutjobs as does the U.S. As previously noted, sure there are Islamic extremists in Indonesia (and, Boy, arenât you proud, you got some fine pictures of them), but these extremist nutjobs are only a fraction of the 12% of the overall Indonesian population that profess to be Textual Muslimin. These idiots are more than capably kept in check by the other 88% of Indonesians, the Abangan, Priyayi, and Syncretic Muslimin -- not to mention that 11% of the Indonesian population are either Christian, Hindu or Buddhist. If you read the news, Indonesia is still keeping the pressure on islamofascists in Aceh, even during this current crisis. See for example this link.
The bottom line is that NO COUNTRY other than the U.S. has captured, killed, convicted, and sentenced to death more islamofascists than has Indonesia since 9/11. As noted by Bushâs choice for our Ambassador to that country, âIndonesia has taken vigorous actions to pursue and prosecute those responsible for the Bali and Marriott bombings, and the Indonesian police have made significant progress in combating the indigenous terror network responsible for these attacks, Jemaah Islamiyah.â B. Lynn Pascoe. Accordingly,
The United States views Indonesia as the cornerstone of regional security in Southeast Asia and a key trade partner. U.S. interests in the region depend on Indonesia's stability and economic growth.
See U.S. -- Indonesia Relations. But, if you think you know better, why donât you try to set G. W. Bush straight?
For me, those who hold the suffering masses accountable for the sins of extremists are pathetic and unfeeling idiots. To do so is to take up the opposite, and equally despicable, extreme.
#28
cingold: It is easy to paint all Indonesians with the same brush, but just as stupid to do so as it would be to say all Americans are well represented by the likes of these jerks.
Americans have lynched hundreds - perhaps thousands - of blacks (and whites), many of them known criminals. It was a kind of frontier justice (and a visible deterrent) in a time and place where the law was thin on the ground - before tax rates skyrocketed to pay for large police departments. Indonesians slaughtered hundreds of thousands of ethnic Chinese in the 1960's (a lot more recent than the lynchings) and have slaughtered tens of thousands of Christians on East Timor, Sulawesi and the Moluccas. All of them completely innocent of any crime except being ethnic Chinese or Christian.
#29
cingold: For me, those who hold the suffering masses accountable for the sins of extremists are pathetic and unfeeling idiots.
Tell it to the former denizens of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. As long as they're not our friends, helping them is akin to feeding rattlesnakes. As far as I'm concerned, as long as any country, Muslim or non-Muslim, opposes the limited measures we have taken in our self-defense, they are at best neutrals, if not the enemy. It is my view that our hard-earned cash should not be squandered on the undeserving.
#30
This thread is getting mighty angry and personal. Let's cool down a little.
I agree with TGA: people need help, and we have the means to alleviate at least some of that misery. We in the West have the means to help, the ability to get the help where it is needed, and the knowledge and experience to make that help effective. I really don't care if the help is delivered via governmental or private means, as each has its advantages. WorldVision doesn't have an amphibious ship with helicopters to deliver aid, and Uncle Sam doesn't have indigenous links and a deep understanding of certain aspects of the culture in that part of the world.
Both governmental and private aid are needed, and both are being delivered. I dug into my own pocket and will do so again, and I agree with GWB's efforts to date.
That certain parts of the world hate us does not excuse us of our own moral need to help where we can, when we can, with what we do best. That same moral imperative drove us to liberate Afghanistan and Iraq, to try and help the starving in Somalia, to help the refugees in Liberia, and to help the victims of the last umpteen hurricanes in our own southeast. The moral issue is that we are required, by our religious beliefs and by our national culture, to help people who need help.
In short: we're Americans. We help because it's what we do.
TGA is making the same point as a German.
So okay, some of the folks in Indonesia hate us. More of them don't, and right now I'm not going to bother sorting out who's who. Help them all, and if someone later picks up an AK and aims it at us, blow his head off.
But right now, there are hundreds of thousands of people who are injured, starving, homeless, naked: in some dire need of help. So we help. We're smart enough to know that governmental aid and private aid are synergistic in their effect, so we fund both.
Throwing verbal bricks at each other on Rantburg doesn't solve problems. It certainly doesn't solve the problem in Indonesia.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/03/2005 12:50 Comments ||
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#31
What makes you so perfect to sit in judgement of other people's actions? If some people don't want to go over board with taxpayer aid to the tsunami area of the world and have their own reasonably thought out arguments for reaching this decision, what gives you the right to paint them with a "broad brush stroke" as "pathetic and unfeeling idiots?" Who is stopping you from making additional individual contributions as you see fit? Go for it - mortgage your house, sell your BMW, give to your heart's content.
What this emotional rant of yours evidenced by bold lettering with goofy name calling is the typical petulent reaction of a liberal who is not getting her way. The common "plebs" in the RB audience, who are not as imminently intelligent or compassionate as you obviously are, are not all saying: "I'm your man - how much do you want for your pet hobby horse, cingold?"
#32
Funny how CNN focuses on the generosity of any people but Americans-with Americans, it comes down to our greed, heartlessness, immorality. The CNN bunch wants to GUILT Americans into giving, instead of having Americans give from their own consciousness, their own abilities, from a genuine urge to help. Did we cause this tsunami? No. Where is this 350 million coming from? Stingy Americans-350 million dollars is stingy? You don't want it then? Cause I'm sure there are some vets who would be highly grateful for it.
This is an unearned guiltiness about what happened-Americans are not at fault for the tsunami or its aftermath, they are not at fault for governments deciding not to alert people in the area or purchase warning systems. They do NOT have to give a set amount. To push guilt off on people when they are being generous is disgusting. The motivation behind such thinking is an affectation of caring, not real caring. We saw some of that after 9/11-many people on foreign TV channels writhing in fake sympathy for dead Americans-they put on a public show to showcase their empathy, to win the accolades of others. It's ugly.
BH-I'm about where you are. It may be in 'poor taste' to show those photos, but I for one am glad you posted them. Every time some country in the world decides we're their enemy and yet expects, DEMANDS, that we help them when they are in dire straights, needs to be reminded of these. They should be utterly ashamed of viewing Americans with such hatred, when we help wherever we can.
Sorry cingold-it's great that you have sympathy for the people affected (we can all have that). I think we are a good people that gives generously to everyone in the world-even people who drag our soldiers' mutilated bodies through the streets of Mogadishu or blow up tourists in Indonesia. We will give, as we always do, but now we will show a more complete picture.
#33
Joeblow, when Dr. Steve asks the commenters to cool it down, he means Cool. It. Down. This means don't keep throwing wood on the fire. You have made your point.
#34
i dont want to add any fuel to the fire, but Indonesia has NOT declared itself our enemy. On the contrary, it has worked WITH us, and been attacked by our enemies. We nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but we were at WAR with Japan. We are NOT at war with Indonesia, much less Sri Lanka or anyone other state in that region.
#35
when Dr. Steve asks the commenters to cool it down, he means Cool. It. Down
I started my comments before Dr. Steve posted his remarks in #30, Seafarious, and so when I posted my last remarks at my "submit" level the last comment I had read or could read were Cingold's remarks in #27. I was not "throwing wood on the fire."
It's obvious we can't always agree in every political discussion, but it would be nice if disagreement, if or when it comes up, could be expressed without the fear of being flamed on a personal level.
A little history. Americans weren't exactly popular in Germany in 1945 (except with those who truly were liberated by them). Dresden and all that, black monsters who would rape innocent German girls and mothers (Goebbels propaganda).
And Americans who had just paid a heavy life toll, had seen the horrors of Buchenwald and Dachau, didn't have many reasons to find the Germans very charming.
Then came the hunger winter of 1946/47 and John Doe in Smalltown America got the idea that starving German children wasn't something ok. The CARE parcels from America arrived and saved many lives.
In 1948/49 the Berlin airlift cost the lives of many U.S. pilots.
This is what made America popular in Germany, its noble, kindhearted spirit. Americans only kill if they are forced to. If they are not, they will help.
I know this often is forgotten in these days. We are just getting a new reminder about what America is truly about. Not Lindy England but the pilot who risks his life to deliver help to people who might, and mind you, might have shouted in a rally how bad America is.
All the help provided is good for the U.S. But this is not the reason America gives that help.
The reason is because America is the country that could.
Comments precisely like these are why some Americans are getting agitated-when you say we give because we get something out of it, we see that our contributions are not appreciated for what they are and our generosity is sh*t upon. It makes us wonder about the motivations of others who give.
The reason is because America is the country that could.
No, the reason is not only ability, it is because we try to do the right thing.
#38
How does anyone know where his tax money actually goes? Does someone in the IRS look at everyone's tax return and declare that this person's money goes to defense, this one goes to highways, etc. The fact is that only a small fraction of anyone's tax money goes to any one government program so how can anyone say "I don't want MY tax money to go this or that." These people desperatly need our help and I will continue to do what I can.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
01/03/2005 13:44 Comments ||
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#39
I have other priorities with my money much to the chagrin of do-gooders who see no difference between their money and others' money.
Did you object to the use of liberal taxpayers' money who might have objected to the War in Iraq in funding that war?
If you didn't object there, then your concern isn't the division between your money and other people's money, and it's not the division between socialism and libertarianism.
It's the division between the causes *you* favour and the cause you *don't* favour.
But if you are a consistent libertarian that objects consistently to the use of other people's money in funding either aid or war, then atleast yours is a defensible position.
#40
But if you are a consistent libertarian that objects consistently to the use of other people's money in funding either aid or war, then atleast yours is a defensible position
#41
I dont think so ;)
Are you objecting to Aris's definition of libertarian or are you answering on what you think I may have objections to re: use of tax money. If it's the latter, thanks but I can handle my own responses to questions.
Libertarian is someone who likes little government control except in terms of defence or national security. That should answer your question Aria. And btw, you might care to read my posts more carefully in this thread. I am not opposed to giving REASONABLE amounts taxpayer supported aid to the tsunami victims. Nor am I opposed to corporate or individual unreasonably high amounts of aid, which I consider comes under the libertarian's positive view of "free will."
I am opposed to breaking the US aid piggy bank and spending the whole 2005 wad as of January 03 2005 on one area of the world, and just printing up new $ at Ft. Knox(ie. passing new Congressional spending to replenish the foreign aid account)to deal with new disasters that will certainly come up sometime in the next 11 months and 28 days.
I have no more to say on this subject. Carry on, but please don't "interpret" my motives. Speak for yourself.
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/03/2005 14:16 Comments ||
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#43
joeblow: Libertarian is someone who likes little government control except in terms of defence or national security.
To add to joeblow's point, punitive expeditions fall under the heading of national security, whatever we might choose to call them for public relations purposes. The strong defense posture means that the correct policy is to take the war to the enemy, not wait for the enemy to disembark on one's shores. The old days, when to inflict large numbers of American civilian casualties, the enemy had to cross an ocean with his army, are long gone. In the ballistic and cruise missile range, with nuclear weapons being sold like small arms and common industrial processes and chemicals being usable for mass casualty attacks, we no longer have the luxury of waiting for the enemy's army to come to us. The enemy must be engaged wherever he is, even as he plausibly denies he was behind previous attacks on Uncle Sam. The libertarian believes that of all the liberties we have, the right to life (as is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - as stated in the Declaration of Independence) is the most important right of all.
#44
Well, I could dispute your definitions of libertarianism (I have studied it, my brother's one, and I know that definition is far from the only or even the primary) but there'd be no point.
Only thing I'll say is that this strain of libertarianism that doesn't mind the occasional war overseas is a variety that has seemed to evolve from Conservatism rather than from views on individualism or liberty -- and that's why it doesn't seem to have broken away from Conservative pet-projects for "national security" purposes.
Because the mainstream libertarian view on defense seems to be isolationist instead, taking Switzerland as its model -- where there's a strong army inside, but it never acts outside its borders:
http://www.impel.com/liblib/Libertarianism.html
"One view that has occasionally expressed is that in a libertarian society *everyone* would be heavily armed, making invasion or usurpation by a domestic tyrant excessively risky."
...
"On the other hand, the mainstream libertarian view is that national defense is one of the few legitimate roles that exist for government and any arguments to the contrary are still in the realm of obscure theory and speculation. So for all intents and purposes the libertarian view is that there should be a government-provided national defense, but that defense should be limited to protecting Americans in America. Even that much-reduced military role would cost less in a libertarian society than it does today, as a non-interventionist libertarian state would over time acquire fewer enemies than we do today (again, think of Switzerland),
Posted by: the shaky hand of adam smith ||
01/03/2005 14:38 Comments ||
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#48
AK: Only thing I'll say is that this strain of libertarianism that doesn't mind the occasional war overseas is a variety that has seemed to evolve from Conservatism rather than from views on individualism or liberty -- and that's why it doesn't seem to have broken away from Conservative pet-projects for "national security" purposes. Because the mainstream libertarian view on defense seems to be isolationist instead, taking Switzerland as its model -- where there's a strong army inside, but it never acts outside its borders
Mainstream libertarianism? A tiny nation of 5 million defines mainstream? And what the heck does mainstream mean anyway - is that some indication of moral worth?
The Swiss approach to defense is not libertarianism - it's called running away from reality and hoping that others get eaten first. Switzerland would not have stayed independent if Napoleon, Hitler or Stalin had gained a stranglehold on the continent. It was one thing for the US to stay aloof during WWII, before modern capabilities had evolved. Today, that is no longer an option.
The Swiss style of self-defense consists of relying on a benign power like the US to keep the wolves at bay. The last time we did a Swiss-style defense, WWII happened.
#49
Jules wrote: Comments precisely like these are why some Americans are getting agitated-when you say we give because we get something out of it, we see that our contributions are not appreciated for what they are and our generosity is sh*t upon.
Jules, I don't TGA meant it that way. TGA (I think) is saying that a) it's morally good and b) it rebounds later to our benefit. There's nothing wrong with that or with saying that. Of course I hope it rebounds to our benefit later, and TGA's example, of how American aid changed the opinion of the average German, is an excellent example. We didn't fly planes into Templehof to change German opinion, we did it to fly in food -- but the fact that average Germans came to see that Americans were not German-mother-raping-monsters was a real good thing for us the next fifty years.
My support of American aid, governmental and private, to the countries affected by the tsunami is predicated on what is morally right. So we help as best we can. If that means that the average Indonesian, Thai, Bengali, Sri Lankan and Indian come to think better of us, all the much better. I don't mind a beneficial side-effect.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/03/2005 15:01 Comments ||
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#50
Because the mainstream libertarian view on defense seems to be isolationist
I suggest to you that the US version of libertarianism is different than the European's view, than Switzerland's.
The following are the best definitions of what the American libertarian philosophy means to me: Libertarianism emphasizes individual freedom, small government, and low taxes. Libertarians stress personal responsibility, with minimal government intrusion on the individual's ability to succeed or fail.
AND "Libertarianism" is usually defined as the view in political philosophy that the only legitimate function of a government is to protect its citizens from force, fraud, theft, and breach of contract, and that it otherwise ought not to interfere with its citizens' dealings with one another, either to make them more economically equal or to make them more morally virtuous. Most libertarian theorists emphasize that their position is not intended to be a complete system of ethics, but merely a doctrine about the proper scope of state power
So there you go. The American Libertarian Party btw has a very small official membership. American libertarians usually have found themselves supporting the GOP voter wise because there's more commonality in the Republican Party than in the Dimwits, obviously, though in terms of spending like drunken sailors, this particular GOP Admin. is as bad as any Democrat Admin. and I don't mean military spending - defense spending is fine by libertarians. This GOP Admin. is heavy on compassionate like the Dimwits ( feelings first)and very light on the conservative - fiscal conservativism and small gov't have not introduced themselves as Republican concepts to this GOP Admin.
#51
It's a different era. Isolationism's no longer an option. In addition to the long-range and asymmetric threats discussed, there's also the phenomenon of global capitalism, specifically cross-border ownership. If you're a major economic power, you can't retreat into your fortress without sacrificing control over enormous concentrations of assets in distant countries. Swiss companies like Nestle and Hoffman-Roche are as much French or American or British or German as they are Swiss. And Swiss banking secrecy laws are unlikely to hold up for more than another decade or two.
#52
Steve-How do Germans see us today? If we are to believe their own press, they are anti-American (for those who attempt to differentiate us from our president, I can only point out that the president was voted in by us-he is the representative of our views and beliefs).
This was not meant as an attack on TGA, who always writes with balance, restraint and intelligence. It is most definitely intended to point out that all that money, all that work and sacrifice and energy put into Germany may have paid off in the short run (50 years), but where are we now with the Germans-does anyone remember the anti-American antics of the last German election? Where were we in the Germans' eyes predating 9/11? Is their current hostility to us not despicable, considering how we have sacrificed to help them?
#54
Zhang Fei> I didn't say Switzerland is libertarian, I said that mainstream libertarianism seems to be taking it as a model on defense issues. Atleast where the taxes-paid military is concerned.
There's even more extreme views, where even taxation in matters of national defense seems to be utterly rejected. See here. That's "true" absolute libertarianism, I think, where taxation is seen as aggression regardless of how the money is used.
And no: "mainstream" isn't a moral judgement. But when talking definitions it's best to know what *most* people mean with the word, and likewise with descriptors of political opinions. The Libertarian Party objected to the War on Iraq for example. That doesn't mean that *all* Libertarians do, but just another data-point about where most libertarians seem to be.
#55
joeblow> On the other hand you may have a point: the "activist" vocal libertarianism I've seen on the net, may be different in attitude than a non-vocal majority of self-defined libertarians. This may have misled me.
If that's true (not sure about it) then your belief about the "mainstream libertarian" attitude on defense spending may be more accurate than mine.
But in that case I think they've fallen behind in propagandizing their views and making them ideologically clear. This brand of libertarianism sounds so similar to plain old conservatism to me that they seem almost undistinguishable.
#56
Used to know a guy who was a member of the Libertarian party. Weird cat, and somewhat tainted my view of them. I find myself reluctantly agreeing with a lot of their views, but usually there's something that I oppose too strongly to count myself among them. When I read their literature it's like, "Yes... yes... exactly... uh-huh... right... NO! WTF are you thinking?!?"
#57
BH - Well put. The isolationist thingy, in particular, seems to be a universal sentiment and is, of course, a non-starter - it's obsolete sans building a physical "fortress America", which will never happen, no matter how many times I ask about the progress on those "Friendship Fences", lol...
#58
AK: I said that mainstream libertarianism seems to be taking it as a model on defense issues.
I'm trying to figure out what you mean when you say mainstream libertarianism. Do you mean the American Libertarian Party? That's organized libertarianism, which is a fringe group in America. There are a lot of libertarians out there, but few that subscribe to the views of the Libertarian Party, especially on defense issues. The mainstream American libertarian is someone like Barry Goldwater, who was strong on defense and law and order and big on laissez faire (small) government in non-defense areas.
#59
Most American libertarians vote Republican, because Democrats are weak on defense and crime. Border control is also an issue for libertarians, because as Milton Friedman pointed out - open borders and the welfare state (free medical care, schooling, welfare payments) are mutually incompatible policies.
#61
AK: I said that mainstream libertarianism seems to be taking it as a model on defense issues.
Calling the American Libertarian Party's views mainstream libertarianism is a lot like calling the Democratic Socialists of America's (DSA) views mainstream socialism. The Democratic party is the true home of mainstream socialism in America, not the DSA.
#63
We give because that's who we are. True charity doesn't ask to be rewarded or thanked. We brawl fight and spit at each other, but we're the ones there when it's needed. I could care less if they're muslim, buddhists or animists. If they hate or love us, it's all the same. We're on this ridiculous mudball for a short enocugh time without being pissy about it.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
01/03/2005 18:13 Comments ||
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#64
A-men, Weird Al. SoPD, I can't believe it, I'm a Libertarian! No wonder the guys at work gave me a coffe mug that has "Heartless Libertarian" on it. Woe is me!
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
01/03/2005 18:32 Comments ||
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#65
Libertarians are conservatives who smoke pot. No fundamental diffs btn the two re national defense.
#68
In my declining years I can't see small things as easily. Especially with a checked background like the one they use on blogs particular about whose comments they accept. Is the label on the box below libertarian, Fascist? And the one below that Stalinist?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
01/03/2005 19:22 Comments ||
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#69
I wonder, Mrs. Davis, whether you would be illiberal enough to restrict Fred's inalienable right to ban from his forum anyone he doesn't want around, or other people's inalienable right to petition him to the same. ;-)
#70
I wonder, Mrs. Davis, whether you would be illiberal enough to restrict Fred's inalienable right to ban from his forum anyone he doesn't want around, or other people's inalienable right to petition him to the same. ;-)
#71
psshwah. These things are always BS because they require answers that are absolutes. Should the government EVER/NEVER be involved in issues of free speech?
NEVER? EVER? OK to shout "fire" in a crowded theater. OK to put bogus news shows on the air that aliens have invaded? Sexual Harrassment ok??
I don't mean to be a party pooper - but I'd prefer that we all just use a little common sense and forget the labels. No issue is ever completely black or white.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
01/03/2005 19:39 Comments ||
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#74
"Why yes, I can," said Midas Mulligan, when he was asked whether he could name a person more evil than the man with a heart closed to pity. "The man who uses another's pity for him as a weapon."
-Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
#75
Agree 71. Another part of the problem is that we are essentially social animals. We're programed by our DNA to interact with others of our species. This "all for me and to hell with everybody else no matter what" doesn't feel right because we know it isn't. Suffering in others brings out the need to protect, no matter who it is. At least it should if our wiring is right.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
01/03/2005 19:49 Comments ||
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#76
Many modern libertarians might do well to balance their theory with a little more reading of Ludwig von Mises, and a little less of Murray Rothbard.
#77
I wonder, Mrs. Davis, whether you would be illiberal enough to restrict Fred's inalienable right to ban from his forum anyone he doesn't want around, or other people's inalienable right to petition him to the same. ;-)
No ban, unless the poster puts up the same comment twice....
(2005-01-02) -- Almost two months after election day, Democrat strategists continue to debate John Kerry's loss to George Bush, wondering how Mr. Kerry failed to lose by a landslide.
"It's baffling," said Democrat National Committee (DNC) Chairman Terry McAuliffe, "He had all the earmarks of a devastating, 10-million-vote, 49-state defeat. And yet he only lost by a few million in the popular vote and cut it pretty close in the Electoral College."
The debate over how Mr. Kerry managed a mediocre performance rather than a crushing embarrassment threatens to tear the fabric of Democrat party unity.
On the one side, many strategists think President Bush should have beaten Mr. Kerry "like a steel drum" due to the latter's lack of guiding principles, reasonable ideas, tolerable personality or track record of accomplishment.
On the other side, a raft of consultants continues to pore over precinct spreadsheets trying to calculate why more people don't hate George Bush.
"If we can solve this riddle," said Mr. McAuliffe, "Our 2008 candidate will be able to return us to the halcyon days of Mondale and Dukakis."
Meanwhile, he said, pundits and pols ponder the central question: "How can a man who stands for so little still get the support of about 50 million voters?"
Mr. Kerry, who is also a U.S. Senator, still attributes his "virtual victory" showing to curiosity.
"I think many Americans were curious to see my plan," he said. "My whole strategy was to tease them with it during the campaign, so they would be burning to get a glimpse of it by November. It worked. Without that plan, sculptors would be chiseling my face on the Democrat Mount Rushmore, right next to Walter and Michael."
Posted by: Korora ||
01/03/2005 12:02:14 AM ||
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Unfortunately, this posting of Scrappleface is not much of a satire. The (relatively) strong showing of Kerry is a disgrace to the USA and its founding principles, and bodes ill for the future of the country.
#4
Tell that to any kid who's looking for their mother buried in the sand without food or water. No, it's not a waste of time or money, unless you enjoy death or just a big mouth on a couch.
#5
Thank you, Chuck. You've gathered an impressive amount of information on your blog. And what makes me proudest of belonging to such a generous culture is the number of individual, uncountable donations being made: boxes of old clothes, etc dropped off at Red Cross and VFW collection points, Scout troops mailing off to an address they found on the internet whatever they've gathered from going house to house, the troops who just arrived over there emtying their packs of whatever will help those they are there to aid.
Glereper, you can be a real ass. Don't give if you don't want to, but respect the choice of those who do.
#6
The picture you get is that these people are just sitting around waiting for the UN to come to the rescue. Far fromn the truth! They are already recueing, recovering, burying, and rebuilding. The money will help but they are not helpless people.
ADLAI STEVENSON once argued that a politician is a statesman who "approaches every question with an open mouth". If the performance of Jan Egeland, of the UN's Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs, is an indication, the same is true of those paid by the United Nations. A week ago, despite just one day having passed since the Asian tsunami, with the reported death toll one tenth of what it is now believed to be, and ignoring the fact that public holidays are never the easiest times to start organising an aid effort, Mr Egeland saw fit to dismiss the reaction of the international community as "stingy".
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
01/03/2005 9:32:43 AM ||
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One more stone knocked out of the edifice that is the Whorehouse on the East River.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
01/03/2005 10:21 Comments ||
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The first would be to move almost immediately from G8 to G10 by incorporating China and India. Within a decade, Australia, Brazil, Indonesia, Mexico and South Africa can also be invited.
I've argued ad nauseam for a coalition of the US and relevant Asian democratic powers, including India, Australia and Japan (along with Britain), to address threats in teh near and far east. The response to the tsunami disaster shows this de facto coalition in action. Add Israel and you have a serious, modern, responsible collective security organization that can and will project power across the region to diminish the threats of islamofascist-inspired chaos, Chinese expanisionism, piracy etc.
Admittedly I was wrong about Russia, but clearly an alternative to the UNSC is finally taking shape. Keep it moving forward. Extend and formalize it as soon as the tsunami work is finished.
#3
Good idea but, other than having a growing economy, what would be the qualification for China to participate? As you say, I'd give Mexico, Indonesia and South Africa a few more years to build their democratic credentials before asking them in too. But Australia is fully house-trained - - they should be in now.
Posted by: Peter Carroll ||
01/03/2005 10:42 Comments ||
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How about adding South Korea? And Taiwan? I think that would tweak the Chi-cons to no end......
#7
China should not be a member until it can behave like a responsible world leader rather than a Wilhelmine bully/angry adolescent. The fundamental flaw of the UNSC-- including rival nations with diametrically opposed interests and incompatible political systems and then giving each nation a veto-- must be avoided here. The goal is to enable responsible action, not create stalemates.
Boortz has some good advice about tsunami donations. Be certain who you are giving to! Scroll down and check out the photo with the guy wearing a Binnie shirt behind the stretcher
Americans are stepping forward as never before in the wake of the tsunami disaster in Asia.  More money will be donated by private American citizens to the relief effort than will be spent by our government. More on that in a moment ... but let's look at the United Nations for a moment.
Kofi working hard to keep the UN at the center of things. When President Bush announced the formation of a coalition to spearhead relief efforts for the tsunami victims Kofi was more than a little upset. He accused Bush of trying to undermine the UN. Kofi sees this tragedy as a way to bolster and enhance the world wide image of the UN, especially after it tucked-tail and ran from Iraq, and also from the Oil-for-Food scandal. What better way to enhance that image then to have all the disaster aid for the tsunami-affected areas channeled through UN agencies.
Posted by: John Q. Citizen ||
01/03/2005 1:47:55 PM ||
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Wonder how many cents on the dollar -if any -will trickle down from Coffee to the needy.
THAI police have ordered families and friends of foreigners to stay away from tsunami-hit areas, including Buddhist temples turned temporary morgues, where they have searched for missing loved ones. The move was necessary to allow hundreds of forensic experts to get on with the job of identifying bodies of thousands of Thais and foreigners through DNA samples, Police Lieutenant Tuaytup Dwibyunsin said in a statement. "Friends and family members must refrain from visiting the tsumami-affected locations, temples, mosques, all operational grounds, including DNA gathering sites and autopsy sites," Lt Tuaytup Dwibyunsin said. "We appreciate your assistance very much, but we have to get organised. We don't want you risking your lives".
Hundreds of foreigners have scoured temporary morgues in the past eight days, searching for family and friends either dead or missing after the killer waves slammed into Thailand's Andaman Sea coast and islands. Thailand's national disaster centre said 5046 bodies — 2459 foreigners — had been recovered from smashed luxury hotels and fishing villages, a popular destination for sun-starved foreigners during the cold northern European winter. Nearly 4000 people are still missing — a number that dropped from about 6500 after Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said the list was being reviewed — including more than 1600 foreigners, many of them Scandinavians. While respecting their grief, Lt Dwibyunsin said the order was necessary to "prevent tampering of evidence and obstructing official gathering of DNA information". The statement was addressed to "friends, family members searching for loved ones, foreigners, foreign volunteers and members of the press" and aimed at protecting them from potential disease. Foreign volunteers must register with the authorities and needed permission to enter restricted areas, it said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: God Save The World ||
01/03/2005 4:57:43 AM ||
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In other words, "Please get out from under foot until we get the mess cleaned up."
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/03/2005 12:12:06 AM ||
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It's boggles the mind that we are going to consider allowing Koffi and the UN to get near another LPOM (large pot of money) that they can skim for personal use at the expense of more human suffering.
They are the "untouchables"; the lowest of the low in India's ancient caste system. No job is too dirty or too nasty, and they are the ones cleaning up the rotting corpses from last week's killer tsunami. The overwhelming majority of the 1,000 or so men sweating away in the tropical heat to clear the poor south Indian fishing town of Nagapattinam, which bore the brunt of the giant wave, are lower caste dalits from neighbouring villages. Locals too afraid of disease and too sickened by the smell refuse to join the grim task of digging friends and neighbours out of the sand and debris. They just stand and watch the dalits work.
Although it has been a week since the tsunami hit, and the destruction was confined to a tiny strip by the beach and port, the devastation was so fierce that several bodies -- located by the stench and the flies -- are still being discovered daily. "I am only doing what I would do for my own wife and child," says M. Mohan, a dalit municipal cleaner as he takes a break to wash off some of the grime of the day's work. "It is our duty. If a dog is dead, or a person, we have to clean it up."
The smell of death still hangs heavily, mixing with the sea breeze and the almost refreshingly tart smell of the antiseptic lime powder that has turned some streets and paths white. More than 5,525 people -- close to 40 percent of India's estimated total 14,488 fatalities -- died along this small stretch of pure white beach, where the huts of poor fishermen were built down to the sand at the top of the beach itself. Caste still plays a defining role in much of Indian society. Over 16 percent of India's billion plus people are dalits. Despite laws banning caste discrimination, they are still routinely abused, mistreated and even killed. They do the jobs others won't -- they clean toilets, they collect garbage, they skin cows.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
01/03/2005 9:06:00 AM ||
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A story which relates to this article
"The usual tales of destruction, apathy, promises from the government not fulfilled. Then Mariamma says it first, followed by a chorus from Mohan and Pakiyam and others, then from more who join us. Write it! they order me. We want you to write this!
Mariamma says, only the Muslims helped us that day. Understood? From the whole town, only the Muslims. The Muslim ex-MLA here, Nizamuddin, organized food and water for us after the wave, and has been sending more to us every day. Only those "Islam people" helped us! The Hindus did nothing for us! Write it!
But aren't you Hindus? And if so, what do you mean by "the Hindus"? We are scheduled castes, Pariyars, explains Pakiyam. The Hindus don't care for us. That's why they didn't help us.
This is hard for me to say. But I have never faced such an insistent demand: write it! Over and over. So I wrote it. I write it.
***
Up and down the coast that was so tragically shattered, we have heard of and seen the help that Muslims provided to the victims. In Cuddalore, a mosque has provided shelter to several hundred people. In Pudukuppam, we found about a dozen Muslims, all wearing their white caps, resting in a boat after distributing cooked food to the villagers. Food for the eighth day in a row."
#4
The thing about Hindu reincarnation is, if the dalits (Dr. Who, anyone?) are dutiful and good, they get to come back as a higher caste next time, and watch the labours of the former upper caste people who screwed up. Of course, watching without easing their labours is a black mark, and quite possibly the last straw that sends the watchers down-caste next time. So there is some consolation, so long as one believes.
What is interesting is the altruistic behaviour of the Muslims there. I wonder how many converts will result from this, especially remembering that many of the current Indian Muslims are descended from low-caste converts in the past.
#3
An incentive for making nice is the impending report from the two-member panel investigating CBS's use of now-infamous documents for the 60 Minutes piece.
"Impending"?? Sooo....how long until the report's release? Wasn't it supposed to be "weeks, not months"???
#5
They spend 3 years on a story and the best they can come up with is fake documents. Any journalist with integrety would have realized there was no story there and quit long ago. Dan Rather definitly had it in for President Bush. More CBS horsepukey.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
01/03/2005 7:33 Comments ||
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Heyward was âworking overtime to convince Bartlett that neither CBS News nor Rather had a vendetta against the White House,â our source says, âand from here on out would do everything it could to be fair and balanced.â
Well if they didn't have a vendetta they wouldn't have to 'do everything.. to be fair and balanced.'
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
(2005-01-02) -- Almost two months after election day, Democrat strategists continue to debate John Kerry's loss to George Bush, wondering how Mr. Kerry failed to lose by a landslide.
ADLAI STEVENSON once argued that a politician is a statesman who "approaches every question with an open mouth". If the performance of Jan Egeland, of the UN's Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs, is an indication, the same is true of those paid by the United Nations. A week ago, despite just one day having passed since the Asian tsunami, with the reported death toll one tenth of what it is now believed to be, and ignoring the fact that public holidays are never the easiest times to start organising an aid effort, Mr Egeland saw fit to dismiss the reaction of the international community as "stingy".
