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| Syria-Lebanon-Iran | ||
| Trump Green Lights Turkey For Syria Invasion. [WTF moment for Kurds] | ||
| 2019-10-07 | ||
For four years the US and mostly Kurdish fighters in eastern Syria have fought and defeated Islamic State in northeast Syria. On October 6 the White House decided to give the green light to a Turkish invasion of the same area to defeat to displace the partner forces the US had been working with. For more than a year and a half US President Donald Trump has been seeking to leave Syria. In the midst of the impeachment crisis he has now made the decision not to pressure Ankara diplomatically, but to sacrifice other US allies in the war on ISIS. Well, earlier this year Trump did promise to destroy Turkey if they harmed the allies. Let's see this play out. Maybe Erdogan was just told that. According to a statement from the White House press secretary Trump spoke to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and the US says that "Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria." The US will not support the operation and the US claims it has defeated the ISIS "caliphate," so it is mission accomplished in terms of what the US initially went to Syria to do. This is the logic by which Washington has decided to act in the face of a year of Ankara&'s threats to takeover eastern Syria.
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| Posted by:Dron66046 |
| #50 50 troops is what all of this fuss is about. |
| Posted by: Phaick Uneretle6310 2019-10-07 23:26 |
| #49 Without entanglement with Israel we wouldn't need to be in the Middle East at all. Bull Shit. The United States has been involved in the Middle East since before modern Israel. Every consumer of the industrial critical resources middle east oil has an active interest in any and all activities which may or may not influence middle east oil production has an active interest in Middle East policies and going-ons. |
| Posted by: swksvolFF 2019-10-07 22:48 |
| #48 No country on earth has benefited more from American largess and protection than Israel. That can be argued. 35 million Kurds under western protection have a better chance to form a nation than 2 (now 7) million Jews. Numbers and geography would disagree. So would the governments of Iran, Iraq, and Turkey. In fact I have heard many an argument that westerners drawing lines on a map willy nilly are why there are so many conflicts between Middle East, African nations. 2 million in a small area is much easier to unify in purpose than 35 million spread over the size, cultural, and climatic diversity of southern Europe. The clock started for a greater Kurdistan as soon as ISIS started rolling up Syria and Iraq, and everyone knew there was a time limit. The chances increased the better ISIS performed as a weak Syria and Iraq with preoccupied Turkey and Iran benefits the idea of Kurdistan. Remember when the Iraqi Kurds told the government, "Dude, ISIS is shooting at us right now, we have taken in the Yzidis, and getting squat from Baghdad...maybe this government isn't for us." And within 24 hours Baghdad had troops in every major Iraqi Kurd airport? I think the Kurds had about 4 years more than, my amateur opinion, should have had. That there was not at least a skeleton of Kurdistan already ready for an opportunity is a bit of a worry about the venture. |
| Posted by: swksvolFF 2019-10-07 22:22 |
| #47 Opinions and values differ. Some can't be compromised. I fear for the Syrian Kurds. Pasha Erdogan is out to ethnically cleanse them or worse. One "NO" from Pres Trump could have avoided this. It's the least he could have done to support the one non-back-shooting ally in the Middle East. Trump will suffer fallout from his base for this perceived betrayal. It's a question of how much, not if. |
| Posted by: Spirt Glans1838 2019-10-07 22:07 |
| #46 Socialists are not redeemable That was written in sarcasm. Thank goodness. Next time put in one of those emoticon thingies so that I pick up on it, please. I do wish you all would play nicely and love one another as I do all of you, but I realize that isn’t realistic. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2019-10-07 21:50 |
| #45 Also: Meanwhile Turkey's military spokesman has ominously warned that the army will move forward to "correct the demographics changed by YPG in Northeast Syria" and further that "Turkey won’t allow ISIS to return in any shape or form." Considering Erdogan already stood down US pressures on acquiring the Russian S-400 air defense system, he appears more willing to call Trump's bluff at this point. #Turkish armored vehicles set in motion with target #Syria. At the roadside the #TSK is applauded. Via @yasiremres pic.twitter.com/U35PL65LLq — Ali Özkök (@Ozkok_A) October 7, 2019 As Syria's Kurds have warned from the beginning, and as the military spokesman's words darkly imply, it appears Turkey's campaign will be toward full-on ethnic cleansing of Kurds from the border regions. |
| Posted by: Spirt Glans1838 2019-10-07 21:49 |
| #44 Spirt Glans1838 is also Elmavimp Glinegum6967. Browser keeps changing names as I don't save browser history. |
| Posted by: Spirt Glans1838 2019-10-07 21:45 |
| #43 From ZeroHedge so add some salt. Maybe slat not needed in this case:: Erdogan's Syria Invasion Begins: Turkish Jets Filmed Bombing Kurdish Targets Erdogan's promised Turkish military operation in northeast Syria has begun, as confirmed by regional media and video footage. On Monday night Turkish fighter jets commenced bombing the Semelka Border Crossing in far northeast Syria on the border with Iraq. Both Hezbollah-affiliated al-Mayadeen television channel and Israeli media are also reporting Turkish jets have attacked Kurdish targets in northern Syria. #BREAKING: Reports: Turkish warplanes have bombed the Semelka Border Crossing at the Syria-Iraq border pic.twitter.com/4Pi1mAratB — Amichai Stein (@AmichaiStein1) October 7, 2019 |
| Posted by: Spirt Glans1838 2019-10-07 21:43 |
| #42 TW: Socialists are not redeemable That was written in sarcasm. Partly as a dig to Sovok Man G, partly because of Communist/Socialist Kurd politics and partly because of Socialist Israeli history. Of course I know from founding to the Camp David Accords, Israel was a Socialist country with more than a little Communist flavor. But Israelis took the aid money (>25% of GDP at the time) and modernized to become a competitive market economy. They redeemed themselves while the Egyptians took the money and subsidized bread. Seems G doesn't believe the Kurds, or anyone else in the Middle East, should get the same chance Israelis. He a flaming hypocrite in every sense of the word. |
| Posted by: Spirt Glans1838 2019-10-07 21:36 |
| #41 Israel and the Kurds are the only two true allies the US in that area. The Kurds occupy a block of land that is spread over part of four countries. Kurdish factions fight each other. I hope this brings them together and that they liberate themselves from Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. |
| Posted by: Phaick Uneretle6310 2019-10-07 20:40 |
| #40 Ah, raj you do realize that I'm an Israeli not an American? Of course I do, yet you lectured me anyway. I think that's the part of it that sticks in my craw. |
| Posted by: Raj 2019-10-07 18:43 |
| #39 This was an interesting rant on the dailybeast. |
| Posted by: Dron66046 2019-10-07 18:03 |
| #38 Already there are some positive results. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 17:26 |
| #37 Pshell nahuy. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 16:42 |
#36 LaRouche? Really? That's all you can come up with? Not just name-calling, but name-calling of the absurd absolute variety?An absurd absolute is a restatement of the other person's reasonable position as an absurd absolute. For example, if your point is there is high crime in Detroit, the absurd absolute would be your debate opponent saying something such as "So, you're saying every person in Detroit is a criminal." When your debate opponent recasts your opinion to include an "absolute" word, such as every, always, never, all, completely, universally, and the like, you are seeing cognitive dissonance. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/160696999931/how-to-know-you-won-a-political-debate-on-the |
| Posted by: Herb McCoy 2019-10-07 16:41 |
| #35 Ah, raj you do realize that I'm an Israeli not an American? |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 16:28 |
| #34 Trùmp is mine, raj? Just like Hillary was supposed to be mine. |
| Posted by: Raj 2019-10-07 16:26 |
| #33 Without entanglement with Israel we wouldn't need to be in the Middle East at all. Not a libertarian, a LaRoucheit? |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 15:39 |
| #32 Without entanglement with Israel we wouldn't need to be in the Middle East at all. Sometimes we don't even realize we have assumptions, much less question them. |
| Posted by: Herb McCoy 2019-10-07 15:30 |
| #31 Whew! |
| Posted by: newc 2019-10-07 12:36 |
| #30 Thank you, people, but that's not my point. The point is, how many here attack Israel to score of me? In particular, using these particular arguments? |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru PB 2019-10-07 12:01 |
| #29 Without Israel's intel help we'd be flying blind in the Middle East. In the US-Israel relationship, we gain at least as much as we give. |
| Posted by: Lex 2019-10-07 11:50 |
| #28 What you say is accurate and I would echo this TW. Spent the last week with Israelis (JQC wife side of the family) talking about these same issues. I'll add a couple of comments however. 1.According to the Democracy Index, Israel is the only democracy in the Mideast and North Africa. They are a representative government and Israeli-Arabs do have representation in the Knesset, unlike Arab countries. A reason to support Israel and to be measured about support for other countries in that region. 2.Donald J. Trump tweeted on 10/7/2019 Replying to @realDonaldTrump ....almost 3 years, but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home. WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN. Turkey, Europe, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Russia and the Kurds will now have to..... ...figure the situation out, and what they want to do with the captured ISIS fighters in their “neighborhood.” They all hate ISIS, have been enemies for years. We are 7000 miles away and will crush ISIS again if they come anywhere near us! 3.Congress’ oath of office is: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God." POTUS, the VP and the military, LE officers oaths are similar. Currently, POTUS and the U.S. are busy addressing “Domestic Enemies.” Let’s get that done before some knee-jerk reaction to ME possible problems. 4.Maybe it’s time for NATO and the U.N. to step up to the plate and not be feckless for a change in addressing any Turkey/SDF possible p!ssing contest. 5.It’s a little like addressing prostate or other cancers. Sometimes watchful waiting is appropriate before more drastic measures such as excising or nuking the tumor. |
| Posted by: JohnQC 2019-10-07 11:14 |
| #27 The Kurds will look after their own interests. It is Syrian territory. Who should be concerned are the Europeans. Seems the man is disengaging America from flashpoints and not interested in playing lower primate territorial games. They too can be next. |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2019-10-07 11:12 |
| #26 Open borders for Israel! |
| Posted by: Glotch Ebbusons2137 2019-10-07 10:01 |
| #25 Socialists are not redeemable Socialist power in Israel has been falling since the mid-1970s, marked first by the election of Menachem Begin and Likud in 1977, and accelerated by Bibi Netwnyahu freeing Israel’s capitalists beast starting in the early 1990s. This rejection of socialism is what the Democratic Party has found increasingly unacceptable over the years, to the point that open Joo-hatred is their preferred position. No country on earth has benefited more from American largess and protection than Israel. Too bad you can't return the favor to another. 1) Israel has been America's strongest and most consistent supporter in the U.N. 2) Israel spends much of America’s donated funds to buy American weaponry, and often has served as co-developer and beta tester of that weaponry. The F-35 is the most recent example of that. 3) Israel volunteered to fight in both Gulf Wars, but in both cases was told to stand down because if Israel was seen to be involved the Arab countries would refuse to be involved, or even join the fight on Saddam Hussein’s side. You may be old enough to recall that Israel sat tight, doing nothing to imperil the Gulf War I effort while Saddam Hussein rained Scud missiles down on Tel Aviv and Haifa for over a month. The government did distribute gas masks to the population, and directions on how to build gas-proof safe rooms in their apartments, but the Patriot missiles President G.W. Bush sent over were utterly useless as protection. The exercise was repeated during the second Gulf War, and since then safe rooms and gas masks have become standard issue for all Israeli households. Search “Saddam Hussein scud attack Israel” for an interesting selection of articles on the subject. 4) Just as both Presidents Bush refused to allow Israel to join the fight lest their Arab friends walk away, so too domestically various branches of the American intelligence services rejected Jewish volunteer translators after 9/11 lest their Arab and Iranian translators walk off the job. And so there have been entirely too many translators whose connections are frighteningly untrustworthy over the years. And finally, Israel has quietly helped the Kurds as they can for years. But just as America refused Israeli aid against Saddam Hussein lest the Arabs walk, so too the Kurds would be harmed rather than helped if they were believed to be Israeli clients. On the other hand, the various socialist Kurdish groups were long time clients of the Soviet Union, and still get some support from Putin’s Russia out of sentiment, but they have pretty much hung them out to dry, too. One hopes, Elmavimp Glinegum6967, that for the sake of consistency you quarrel with those you know to be Russian for it as you did with g(r)omgoru. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2019-10-07 09:10 |
| #24 Patience. Play the long game. The Kurds aren't going anywhere. There will yet be an independent Kurdish homeland with a US military forward presence. |
| Posted by: Snusotch Shique1675 2019-10-07 08:56 |
| #23 Trùmp is mine, raj? |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru PB 2019-10-07 08:53 |
| #22 and RealPolitik rises from the grave yet again. |
| Posted by: Bugs Schwarzeneggar3591 2019-10-07 08:11 |
| #21 Yea, well I'm not responsible for your sayings. Remember two years or so ago that you were lecturing me about the need to 'take responsibility for your elected politicians' even if I didn't vote for them? Funny how that principle doesn't apply when it's applied to you, isn't it? |
| Posted by: Raj 2019-10-07 07:30 |
| #20 Ref #17: And from a Kurdish perspective, it is important to note that another point of tension between Bolton and Trump was northeast Syria. Bolton opposed Trump’s decision last December, following a phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, to withdraw US forces from Syria. Link |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2019-10-07 06:49 |
| #19 A rant. And... data. Almost all Kurdish Jews or Jewish Kurds ? emigrated into Israel proper from the 50s onward. The jewish Kurd community used to once have great influence in Iraq. More than that, Grom and TW may know best. But of course, the majority are The Kurds, being the most sensible lot of the muslim demographic in the middle east are so hated by sunni and shia alike because they are an amalgam of cultures and religious practices. Most importantly they are seen as takfirs who did not bow down to the ayatollahs and mahdis through the ages and impudently stuck to their own distinct identity. They also refused the madness of jihad and sacrificed greatly in the war on terror, often being frontline hitters while American forces took the credit. This is true, no offense. Also true is that they were not fighting for relevance or to establish some righteous super-suzerainty over the middle east but for mere survival against vicious hordes of barbaric islamists. The Kurdish fighters in fact drew their inspiration from the Israeli nation and the Peshmerga have been helped by agencies and arms of governments sympathetic to their cause from the US to China Even the chinks once advocated the establishment of an autonomous kurdish state within the Iraqi republic Israeli aid to Jurd, Yazidi, Christian survivors of the ISIS has been considerable. I wish my country had done more, but that's India for you Sycophant, penny-pinching, money grubbers. Recently, Erdogan's overtures towards the Pakis have been waking up Modi to our appeals to assist the Kurds rather than please OIC sasquatches. Now, about Turkey. Especially Erdogan. The turkish community in the US was coaxed and prodded by his party to support freshman Ilhan Omar. They have considerable activist clout within the US media and now the HoR through several other Brotherhood stooges too. Then there's the $100 mil that Erdogan pured into a mosque and islamic center in Maryland. Can't think of more, but I'm sure if you dig a little... In 2016, Wikileaks published thousands of emails documenting the involvement of Berat Albayrak son-in-law of Yippy, in helping ISIS market oil robbed in Syria and Iraq. Turkish transport and logistics were heavily used to assist ISIS fighters fleeing zones occupied by US and allied fighters. Ask almost any ISIS fighter caught in the EU or neighboring borders how he got out and I'm sure he'd tell you about Turkish assist. The issue is not one of whether the Kurdish cause warrants the support of the US, or anybody. It's about letting Erdogan's Ottoman Syria dreams free reign while mad islamists watch across 'the levant' as it were. I have the utmost respect for Trump, and even if I didn't I would still support him just for the expediency of such a leader at the moment. But truly loyal allies don't nod in the affirmative to even the mistakes of their friends. I hope people in the military will better apprise the President of the ground realities and the implications of such a move. Bolton certainly would have. All that being said, I for one shall side with the underdog as usual. Biji Kurdistan ! |
| Posted by: Dron66046 2019-10-07 06:39 |
| #18 The way DJT operates, this is about giving the turk a chance to find out what it feels like to have a bloody nose while stepping on their dicks |
| Posted by: M. Murcek 2019-10-07 06:06 |
| #17 What was John Bolton's position on the Kurds? |
| Posted by: Thimp Clusort2035 2019-10-07 06:06 |
| #16 And you still can't |
| Posted by: Elmavimp Glinegum6967 2019-10-07 05:10 |
| #15 Sorry Besoeker, but - I bet - you know why I couldn't resist the temptation. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 05:07 |
| #14 Socialists are not redeemable. |
| Posted by: Elmavimp Glinegum6967 2019-10-07 04:48 |
| #13 One can't turn a saw's ear into a silk purse. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 04:45 |
| #12 If I have to stop the car..... |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2019-10-07 04:44 |
| #11 Not going to or can't? |
| Posted by: Elmavimp Glinegum6967 2019-10-07 04:43 |
| #10 I'm certainly not going to argue with your (fact free) beliefs. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 04:41 |
| #9 Same here. No country on earth has benefited more from American largess and protection than Israel. Too bad you can't return the favor to another. |
| Posted by: Elmavimp Glinegum6967 2019-10-07 04:38 |
| #8 You are entitled to your opinions. And I'm entitled to my opinion about you. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 04:30 |
| #7 35 million Kurds under western protection have a better chance to form a nation than 2 (now 7) million Jews. |
| Posted by: Elmavimp Glinegum6967 2019-10-07 04:26 |
| #6 Yep, yours. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 04:23 |
| #5 A little to close to home. |
| Posted by: Elmavimp Glinegum6967 2019-10-07 04:18 |
| #4 Yea, well I'm not responsible for your sayings. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 04:14 |
| #3 Same could have been said for Israelis. |
| Posted by: Elmavimp Glinegum6967 2019-10-07 04:12 |
| #2 Seems like Trump has decided to abandon the Kurds. Seems Trump been advised, correctly IMO, that independent Kurdistan is a pipe dream. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2019-10-07 04:09 |
| #1 WTF is right. Seems like Trump has decided to abandon the Kurds. Subject: Statement from the Press Secretary The White House Office of the Press Secretary FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE October 6, 2019 Statement from the Press Secretary Today, President Donald J. Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey by telephone. Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial “Caliphate,” will no longer be in the immediate area. The United States Government has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations, from which many captured ISIS fighters came, to take them back, but they did not want them and refused. The United States will not hold them for what could be many years and great cost to the United States taxpayer. Turkey will now be responsible for all ISIS fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial “Caliphate” by the United States. |
| Posted by: Elmavimp Glinegum6967 2019-10-07 04:07 |