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Europe
Airbus 320 crash in France - 148 on board
2015-03-25
posting in Non-WOT for now. Dusseldorf to Barcelona flight
Moved to Page One
Rolled over to continue the discussion.
I am not comfortable with the data that has come forward and the manner in which this event in shaping up. Like MH370, The lack of a distress call is particularly disturbing.
Posted by:Frank G

#37  New report that they could hear the pilot banging on the door trying to get in, on the voice recorder. The pilot at the controls was silent. So in my humble opinion it leave it down to a possibility of 3 events. 1- Pilot stroked out and caused the decent. 2-piloy suicide. or 3- windscreen breaks. Not enough to depressurize the aircraft bur enough to send a piece of windscreen into the pilot, decapitating him. Any other event I can think of would have the pilot on the controls talking, making calls, or at least voicing emergency procedures out loud.
Posted by: 49 Pan   2015-03-25 22:56  

#36  Looks like Bright Pebbles @11 May have called it.
Posted by: USN, Ret.   2015-03-25 22:00  

#35  Maybe my google-fu is weak, but there seems to be no mention of the pilot's names. Names and pix of the pax have been released. Would expect something like "Capt. Blah-blah is a seasoned veteran with N years of experience." Curious.
Posted by: SteveS   2015-03-25 21:40  

#34  Pilot Rumour network
Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2015-03-25 21:24  

#33  Fritz and Abu...OK, I made that up
Posted by: Frank G   2015-03-25 21:21  

#32  What are the names of the pilots?
Posted by: Airandee   2015-03-25 21:11  

#31  I thought it odd that the leaders of France, Germany and Spain would visit the crash site so soon after the crash. Perhaps it was to confer over what to do about the crash that they already knew wasn't an unfortunate accident.
Posted by: phil_b   2015-03-25 21:10  

#30  New York Times reporting on pilot being locked out of cockpit.
Posted by: Besoeker   2015-03-25 20:39  

#29  The aircrews names may be of interest.
Posted by: Albert Thravins4110   2015-03-25 20:26  

#28  News reporting tonight sez 'pilot left the cockpit and could not get back in despite knocking and pounding on the door.' Pilot or co-pilot suicide may be a possibility.
Posted by: Besoeker   2015-03-25 20:13  

#27  Yes, AP, bu the Alaska flight survived to explain what happened. If this one blew off the top, there'd be no evid.... waitaminute...If it blew open minutes before the crash, there are other parts located miles away.
Posted by: Bobby   2015-03-25 19:32  

#26  Got the DAILY MAIL reporting on the screen. Very informative.

Airspeed from initial descent varied from 599 mph to 435 mph near impact. So there seemed to be some kind of automatic control, even though sink rat was high but not out of control high.

Something catastrophic happened to incapacitate the crew, even from using their own oxygen masks and O2 crew system. Maybe they started descent procedure on their autopilot then passed out. It was mentioned that there was 58000 hours on a nominal 60000 hr airframe. Wonder how many pressurization cycles the airframe experienced in its lifetime. Remember the Aloha Airlines flight 243 that popped its top years ago, due to the huge number of pressurization cycles from lots of short hops between islands (89,680)? Just some thoughts.

Posted by: Alaska Paul   2015-03-25 17:26  

#25  Excellent photography as well.
Posted by: Shipman   2015-03-25 16:37  

#24  Quality reporting eh, Bobby?
Don't see that much anymore.
Posted by: Skidmark   2015-03-25 14:03  

#23  Jeepers! The Telegraph article (linked in #21) is not for low-information voters. Loads of photos, video, and interviews, expert theories, and speculation.
Posted by: Bobby   2015-03-25 13:53  

#22  Per FAA (see page 3-3), Time of Useful Consciousness at 38,000 ft is around 30 seconds. More than enough time to put on an available quick-don mask.

Note the number of windscreen panel segments on the A320. How many would have to crack/shatter to induce total flightdeck mahem? Not discounting it entirely, but evidence suggests that the aircraft was in an expedited but controlled descent. Disorientation *2? Maybe.


Posted by: Hupineger Glomomp52169   2015-03-25 13:02  

#21  Link to #20 and Daily Mail article.
Posted by: Besoeker   2015-03-25 12:06  

#20  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3010610/French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Lufthansa-GWI9525-4U9525-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette-Alpes-Hautes-Digne-Les-Bains.html

Something odd happened at 10:30 (eleven minutes before crash). That military planes flew over so soon after may mean the flight path deviation was noticed by ATC.
Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2015-03-25 11:57  

#19  Stick and rudder pilots know that once you get to altitude and controlled level flight, engines make you climb and descend, nose attitude makes you speed up and slow down.

Posted by: OldSpook   2015-03-25 11:46  

#18  Roumors of shattered windshield.
Posted by: Shipman   2015-03-25 11:00  

#17  It appears the heavily damaged CVR has been located:

Posted by: Hupineger Glomomp52169   2015-03-25 10:00  

#16  Was the pilot named Gerhard or Salim?
Posted by: Bobby   2015-03-25 07:37  

#15  @#13: Agreed, but the folks up front have access to GPS-based groundspeed info and they were briefed on expected weather, including winds aloft, before departure. If it were an ASI issue, some bells should have been going off in their melons.

If it were a pressurization issue, the pilot and co-pilot had access to quick-don masks with integrated mikes. The lack of a distress call is very troubling.
Posted by: Hupineger Glomomp52169    2015-03-24 19:01  

#14  From Aircraft POH

Descent Information:
To calculate
Top Of Descent point (the point at which you need to begin your descent to reach the desired altitude at the desired time): Use 6.5 miles per minute (at Mach .65 in descent) as the basis. If you are cruising at 33,000 ft. and wish to descend to 5,000 ft. at the next waypoint, at a descent rate of 1,800 ft./min., you need to
figure the time to descend 28,000 ft. (33,000 - 5,000). Divide 28,000 ft. by 1,800 ft./min. and you will get 15.56 minutes. At 6.5 miles per minute, you need to begin your descent at 101 miles from the next waypoint (15.56
minutes multiplied by 6.5 miles per minute). This is a “No Wind” calculation. If you have a tailwind, the miles per minute will be greater; if you have a headwind, the miles per minute will be lower.


Descend with throttles at idle at initial descent. Set auto throttle to hold descent airspeed of Mach .65 to 16,000 ft. and 250 KIAS below 16,000 ft


This pilot needed to get his bird down fast! Either that or something went catistrophic.
Posted by: Alaska Paul   2015-03-24 17:09  

#13  The airspeed sensors should be looked at first. Probably broken or frozen...again.
Posted by: Anice Nim   2015-03-24 16:00  

#12  I'm more interested in the Cockpit Voice Recorder than the "Black Box."
Posted by: Hupineger Glomomp52169   2015-03-24 15:49  

#11  Looks a bit like the pilot crashed it into the mountain....

It didn't stall, it didn't explode and it didn't glide...
Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2015-03-24 14:03  

#10  Reportedly nothing remains that is larger than a small car. Here is the link/blog to the crash site pic at #9.
Posted by: Besoeker   2015-03-24 13:02  

#9  
Posted by: Besoeker   2015-03-24 13:00  

#8  Rib 5 cracking or criminal act are best bets
Posted by: Tzsenator   2015-03-24 12:58  

#7  Cruising @ 38,000'
Impacted cumulogranite @ apx 6,000'
Descent time per Drudge: 8 min

Descent rate apx (38,000 - 6,000)/8 = 4,000 ft/min

The pilot wanted to get down NOW, but not quite a catastrophic descent.

As I understand it, things get a little squirrelly in the A320 > 39,000'. 38,000 should not have posed a problem due to altitude alone.

For the geeks (like me): How to Fall 35,000 Feet--And Survive
Posted by: Hupineger Glomomp52169   2015-03-24 12:58  

#6  That was what happened to the Aitr France Rio Paris flight. Iyt was flying oin the coffn's corner and began to stall and lose altitude. At the commands was the third pilot who was (for apilot of a big company) quite unexperienced. He tried to pull on the stick but that only made the problem worse since the basic problem was the plane did not have enough speed. The more the plane lost altitude the more he pulled on the stick to lift the nose but that airliners don't climb through the sheer power of their engines, they need airsepeed and lifing the nose decreased it. What he should have done was to let the nose down in order to get airspeed. Second pilot had the right intuition and pushed but didn't tell to the other one to leave the commands so things didn't improve. Then the Captain who ahad been napping entered the cabin but since he was probably still sleepy he just stood looking what was happening instead of ejecting the nearest pilot and tell the other to release the commands. A lot of people died.
Posted by: JFM   2015-03-24 12:32  

#5  This bird was flying up near to its service ceiling. Wonder if was up near the edge of its performance ceiling at coffin corner? Go a little too fast and you get Mach buffet. Fly a little too slow and you get into a stall.
Posted by: Alaska Paul   2015-03-24 11:53  

#4  On top of all the other gloom and doom of the day, this tragedy. Adding this one it to my questions for the Almighty. Very, very sad.
Posted by: Besoeker   2015-03-24 10:16  

#3  Oops.... I heard a reversed flight plan. Left Barcelona for Dusseldorf
Posted by: Frank G   2015-03-24 09:37  

#2  And yet another reason I will never fly on an Airbus.
Posted by: DarthVader   2015-03-24 08:42  

#1  BBC Autoupdating link
Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2015-03-24 08:37  

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